Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Miikka Kiprusoff Wins 300th Game, Buffalo Crushes Boston

IDEA: Who to start at QB?

EDITOR'S NOTE - 4:55PM - Now's as good a time as any for QB suggestions. Whether Dilfer is your guy, or you have some wild suggestion, let's hear what you've got. You can assume Smith will be out for a few weeks or he's done for the year, doesn't matter to me. We're all just spit-ballin here.

Well, it's a slow Wednesday and I'm just now recovering from the embarrassing game last Sunday against the Seahawks. I think it's safe to say that we have the most inept offense in the NFL and with Alex Smith going down and the season teetering on the ability of Trent Dilfer, I'm not too comfortable about our position. A big part of the reason our offense has been so bad is because our O line couldn't block anybody to save their life. On one side we have Staley, who's a rookie and on the other side we have the vets Jennings and Allen who aren't getting any younger and have been beat more often than not this year. Atleast Alex had somewhat of a chance because of his athletic ability but Dilfer has never been known for his quick feet and now at the age of 35 (I think) he's less nimble than he's ever been.

This is where it gets a little wacky, you're either going to call it a genius idea or contemplate my sanity, which most of you will probably take the latter option.

We all saw how bad Dilfer was, he couldn't make a play to save his life. So I was thinking about who else we could start. What if we were to start Michael Robinson at QB? Crazy, I know, but could he really be worse than Dilfer? Robinson, our 3rd string RB barely gets any burn but he does have experience playing the QB position, that's the position he started at for Penn St. back in college. We all know how bad the O line is and starting Robinson would give us a mobile QB which we need if we aren't going to scrap our O line. He already has some grasp of the playbook and he could start learning it this week and during our bye week so that would give him almost 3 weeks time, which is about the amount of time he'd need.

This is just some random thought I came up with, I know it would be an unheard of move in the NFL but I honestly can't see him being any worse than Dilfer. This is assuming that Alex Smith is going to miss a good chunk of time with his shoulder injury, which by all accounts is in the realm of possibility.

Do any of you think this scenario could work or do you think I've completely lost it?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

Comment 21 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Robinson at QB
My thought about that suggestion is that it could work if Robinson has had the entire offseason to work at it.  He has experience at QB, but I believe he's played a lot more RB/WR in college than QB.  If you throw him into the fire now, it'll be no different than putting Trent Dilfer or Shaun Hill out there.  Trent may struggle because of lack of mobility but Hill and Robinson will struggle because of lack of experience.  Remember Alex's first season?  I'd imagine Robinson can't do much better than that (throwing wise).

I think Trent will be okay after a week or two of practicing with the first team.  From what I understand, he doesn't practice AT ALL with the first team during practice normally.  As I've said before, that lack of practice with Jackson and Battle could obviously lead to timing being WAYYY off.  Once that timing is there, he could take shorter drops and get rid of the ball faster.

Matt Maiocco noted in one of his recent blog entries that for some reason, Hostler was still calling plays that had 5 or 7 step drops.  Three step drops are the key to this week, as the Raven's front seven is really good.  Couple their (Ravens' front seven) skill with Dilfer's mobility (or lack thereof), and more 3 step drops are a definite NEED.

Basically, I'm not saying you're crazy.  Robinson is a leader (mentally) and I'm sure he knows the playbook very well.  He's admitted he approaches his RB job on third downs as a second QB, so it wouldn't surprise me at all that he would know his stuff.  However, as Trent Dilfer showed last week, showing you know your stuff doesn't cut it without physical practice.

by sfgfan on Oct 3, 2007 4:19 PM PDT reply actions  

You know
A persistence of 5 to 7 step drops despite consistent heavy pressure was one of the top things that was wrong with the Raiders offense last season. In fact, it's exactly what Andrew Walter spoke out about (and why I suddenly had brief hope for him as an NFL QB).

Ugh. We're the new Raiders.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Oct 3, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're
right, I had a little discussion with my friend who's a Raiders fan and we're both convinced that this offense might be worse off than the Raiders was. I don't see our OC changing his ways anytime soon, so my assumption is that we're going to see more of what we've already seen. I guess the best thing to do is pray the chargers go 1-5, have them fire Norv and hire Marty, we fire our OC and replace him with Norv.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Oct 3, 2007 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's almost uncanny
Good defense, porous, poorly coached offensive line, offensive coordinator unable or unwilling to mix up an outdated, uncreative gameplan...

The only thing is we don't have all the dissent.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Oct 4, 2007 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Trade for McNabb
I keep reading how Chicago and various other teams are rumored to be hot for McNabb.   Why can't the 49ers swing a deal?   Alex has one more year (after this year) on his contract and hasn't shown that he can be the true franchise QB.  

by DraftQBin2008 on Oct 3, 2007 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

McNabb
We wouldn't want an over scrutinized QB. Plus he can barely stay healthy. I'd pass, I'd go after Derek Anderson befor McNabb (all things considered, especially the asking price). And before I did that I would draft a QB in this upcoming draft, it's a pretty good class.

by methodrampage on Oct 4, 2007 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Robinson
Yes, Michael Robinson spent more time playing WR/RB for Penn State than QB.  In fact, there were stories his senior season of his showing the freshman WRs the routes, then throwing passes to them in drills.  The singular thing that made him successful as a QB was his mobility, so maybe he might not be a bad choice, given our O Line.

by Tank on Oct 3, 2007 5:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Stick with Dilfer
Everyone is being hasty to say Dilfer is washed up. This past Sunday was his first game action in a year and a half!!! Add in that the Niners were behind the whole game so they were forced to throw every time, the Seahawks blitzed every play and the line looked like a bunch of matadors, and Dilfer didnt have much of a chance. Rod Brooks is the only voice of reason on KNBR right now. Dilfer will get reps with the first team this week and fully prepare himself to be the starting QB. If the line protects him and opens holes for Gore, the Niners will be fine.

Even with Alex Smith at QB, this offense was built around a heavy dose of Gore and a sprinkling of passing to keep the defense off balance. Why do the expectations have to change with Dilfer in there? Any QB in the NFL can be competent if he has time to throw, and any QB in the NFL will have trouble making plays if there are 3 guys in the backfield before he finishes his 5 step drop. Anyone see McNabb's performance against the Giants this week? He got sacked 12 times, twice as many as Dilfer. Is everyone in Philly calling for Kevin Kolb one week after McNabb put up 56 points against the Lions??

Come back to me next week if Dilfer goes 12-33 again against the Ravens. Then we can consider another QB change.

by joebirdie3 on Oct 3, 2007 5:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Arnaz Battle, too! -.-
In case you were wondering: yes. You are looney for suggesting that Robinson would start an NFL game as a quarterback.

Now here's my piece, so bear with me for a moment.

I think it's not only fair, but completely logical to throw Dilfer's struggles against Seattle completely out the window. As mentioned above, he hadn't taken many (if any) snaps with the first team offense all year, and the playcalling was (understandably) unprepared for his presence in the game. Let alone from the very beginning.

The 49ers offense this year has been built for Alex Smith. So many of the plays drawn up by Hostler have the long drops, the rollouts and kind of route designs that compliment Smith's strengths. Needless to say, what works for Smith would not and cannot work for Dilfer - they couldn't be any more different in regards to how they operate under center. So when Smith, who had taken every snap for the 49ers last season, went down early...disaster was imminent.

You can't just roll with the original gameplan when you lose the...(it hurts me to say this)... centerpiece of your offense early in the first quarter. And I'm sure the coaching staff had planned all week to put the game on Smith's shoulders to win or lose. Having to scrap that and go with the very few plays left in the playbook that weren't designed for a mobile QB pretty much doomed the offense. That is, if you believe they weren't already doomed before the coin toss.

That's the main point to be made.

Secondly, and this is an opinion I'm sure I might catch a lot of heat for, I think that Dilfer is the better QB. If you use the "Well then why isn't HE starting?" argument, then you don't understand what I mean. Alex Smith is the QB of the future, yes. He's the highest paid player on his side of the ball, and he has a lot of expectations to live up to. And unfortunately, those reasons outweigh talent, experience, football smarts and any other factor that might go into writing up a depth chart. But when you're talking about who, on this roster, is most fit to lead a football team as it's field general...I don't think there's any question that that guy would be Trent Dilfer.

Granted, I may show a little bit of bias, as I was never truly a Smith fan (years ago, I prayed that garcia would suck and the niners would draft brees...and years after that, I cursed Leinart for staying at USC for his senior year). But if you just look at the black and white performance of Alex Smith in his not-quite-as-young-as-it-used-to-be career, there really isn't much to smile about. He had a horrific rookie year. He had a slightly-better-than-crappy sophomore season that people liked to refer to as "major improvement!" and he was (save one drive) churning out a painfully awful showing in what was supposed to be the year that we could finally judge him. If I'm wrong, you can feel free to throw tomatoes at me down the road, but I think it's pretty safe to say that Alex Smith is not the answer that the 49ers franchise was searching for. He's probably not even the answer to the Cleveland Browns backup role in a couple years. Seriously.

With the no.11-hate out of the way, there are also things to address toward your criticism of Dilfer. First of all, you don't need to be Donovan McNabb or Vince Young to buy yourself time in the pocket. There is a rare trait found in certain not-so-nimble quarterbacks that allows them to know how and where to move within the pocket in order to allow yourself more time to get the ball downfield. And while I won't say that Dilfer is the Marino of pocket presence, I will say that he's a whole hell of a lot better at it than Alex Smith - who has a bad habit of rolling out 10 yards backward and to the near sideline, and doing it too soon even when there is very little pressure. This is why you see Smith running toward the sideline with only one possible receiver within his area of effect what seems like at least 10 times a game. Dilfer will have a lot more patience and a lot more discipline than that.

Also, from what I have seen of the 49ers failures on the offensive side of the ball so far this year, I can pretty much split the blame 50/50 between the playcallers and Smith. Maybe the two bring out the worst in eachother, but something isn't going very well back there. I don't know if Alex is throwing 10 picks per practice, or if the OC really just doesn't have any confidence in him at all, but the guy seems to never want to throw the ball down the field unless a guy is wide the f open (and then he usually overthrows him by 4-9 yards). A lot of things can be said about Dilfer, but one thing you can't knock him on is his confidence. He won't doubt himself for one second, and if he sees a lane, he'll put it in there. All we really have to worry about is the catching-ability of the receiving corps.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the loss of Alex Smith really isn't as tragic as a lot of 49er fans are making it out to be. Really, I think the loss of Manny Lawson was a much bigger blow. Losing Smith for a couple games may be a blessing in disguise. I mean, it's not like we could get any worse than we were offensively. And if there's one thing Dilfer is good at, it's managing a football game and letting his defense decide the outcome. During his time in Baltimore, he won a Superbowl doing exactly that. And while I won't begin to compare our D to that of the Ravens team he played for...it's a huge step up from where we were.

So yeah. Sadly, this is my way of staying positive.

by shleckothegecko on Oct 3, 2007 6:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Dilfer
I'm going to have to say I'm in agreement. I've always been a huge Dilfer fan (as I've grown up a Fresno State fan), and the guy is vastly underrated. He was never given his due credit in the Ravens' Super Bowl win, and I think he's got what it takes to make the 49ers a winning club, as long as they can give him some time to throw the frickin ball. Your opinion of Smith over the years has mirrored mine, and I agree that he is definitely not the QB of the future.
"If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it's a rat."

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 4, 2007 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two parties to blame...
As Bob points out down below, you're forgetting it this is a team game in only doling out blame to two parties.  I think the offensive line is the primary guilty group for all of the failures of the offense, but the other groups need to all step up as well.  The offensive line is the key to the whole offense, not the playcalling, and certainly not Alex Smith.

They determine how much Frank gets on a run.  They determine how much time Alex (and now Trent) have to go through their progressions.  Both facets of "offense" work together, and the offensive line is at the head of both of them.  They have to at least be able to do ONE thing right, either pass protect OR run protect, if they can't do both.  So far, they've done neither, and it hurts the team.

On top of that, yes, Alex should shoulder some blame.  Yes, he thinks he feels more pressure than he is actually under sometimes and begins to react to it too soon.  Yes, he could try to make quicker decisions.  But honestly, the kid hardly has made any mistakes that has drastically hurt this team, so he shouldn't take so much heat.

As for Smith not wanting to force the ball.  QBs don't force the ball.  Alex has made some nice throws deep so far this year (even in decent coverage).  At least two or three of them have been dropped.  He's just not going to force the ball to force something to happen.  It's not how Nolan coaches him, and it's not what Nolan wants ANY of his QBs to do.  

Besides, the WRs aren't doing their jobs.  It doesn't matter who the heck has been in the game, each and every one of them have failed in one (or more) aspects of their jobs.  Jackson drops balls and has shown to be somewhat tentative of big hits after the catch.  Jacobs has run terrible routes, made mental mistakes, and just hasn't hustled otherwise.  Lelie falls under the same category as well, in that his route running is lackadaisical at best, and he also shows a fear of going over the middle.  Battle has been the only guy who's been consistent, but he's also appears to be very consistent in not creating much separation.

Bottom line, I just don't think it's fair that you put the blame on Smith and the playcalling.  The playcalling has had some predictability, but they've also done quite a bit to mix up their personnel.  They've gone with empty back fields, they've put Walker/Davis in the back field, Baas at TE, Walker/Davis split wide, Walker/Davis in the slot, Battle in the backfield, Robinson wide and in the slot, Norris in the slot, Norris at tight end, etc.  The players just haven't executed when called upon.  If the WRs have held onto at least 66% of their drops, Smith's completion percentage would be close to 60% rather than 50%.  It's a team sport, and thats all I'm saying.

by sfgfan on Oct 4, 2007 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is just wrong on so many levels
First: Smith has improved dramatically since his debut. When he's had time to throw this season (and this is admittedly a small sample, because he hasn't had time very often) he's consistently made the plays. His wide receivers haven't, and sometimes he's had that time because the O-Line is committing holding penalties, but that's not his fault.

Second: Dilfer has never been even an average quarterback in the NFL. He's consistently been put in roles where his job was "don't lose the game for us," and hasn't necessarily even succeeded in those roles. That's fine for a backup-- frankly, "don't lose it for us" is kind of the backup's motto-- but he's not a good starting quarterback. This is a known fact. Alex Smith has upside. Dilfer has none. Even if Smith might turn out worse, it's the difference between a 5-11 season and a 7-9 season. In other words, who cares?

Third: Apportioning the blame "50/50 between the playcallers and Smith" just tells me that you know very little about how an offense actually functions. I'd place at least 50% of the blame so far on the offensive line. Smith has no time to throw downfield, so the offense never calls plays that require it. They can't stop blitzes, so Niners receivers never get isolated in one-on-one coverage. And when the defense only rushes 3 or 4 guys, they still can't stop them, and the receivers can't get open against twice their number in defenders in the short time before Smith gets sacked or chased out of the pocket.

It is literally impossible to have a successful offense without a good line. The dominant offensive lines of the Pats and Colts have as much to do with their success as Manning and Brady. What I don't understand is WHY the Niners line is this bad. It's pretty much last year's group minus a liability and plus a first-round pick. And it's been the second-worst in the NFL. (I won't say the worst, since Donovan McNabb might have a thing or two to say about the quality of his protection.)

If the line play does not improve by the bye week, changes need to be made. Allen and Smiley have been truly horrendous. They've botched more assignments than a remedial algebra class.

It doesn't matter if you get there if you don't know where you're going.

by Zagarna on Oct 4, 2007 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Basically...
... what I said above.  I, however, disagree with you in saying that Dilfer "has never been even an average quarterback in the NFL."  He has the epitome of an average NFL QB throughout his career.  In my opinion, the average NFL quarterback's job is to "not lose the game."  I also happen to believe that an "average" NFL QB is a backup quarterback on most teams.  What makes a QB above average is the ability to "put the team in position for the win."  Examples of an "average" QB to me are Grossman, Dilfer, Bledsoe, Garcia, and the likes.  Examples of an "above average" QB tome are guys like (obvious) Manning/Brady, McNabb, Hasselbeck, Favre, and other guys who have shown (at least some) flashes of putting the team on their shoulders and leading them to victory.

I do agree about the line, though.  It has also frustrated me to see them struggle, even though it's the same cast from last year.  There are a few theories on my part (that have been echoed by at least a few others here): past injuries, age, and practice time.  The left side of the line isn't really young.  Jennings is always a risk for an injury on the next play (and he's injured right now).  Heitmann just came off of an injury, but I doubt a broken bone in your leg can affect your blocking that much.  I think the real culprit is lack of work together.  Allen gets Thursdays off.  The line barely had much preseason work together.  Jennings missed at least two days of practice last week.  The line just needs to have more work together.

One thing is for sure, though.  Staley, outside of a few mistakes (primarily penalties), has been pretty good so far.  He has really given people no reason to say that the line struggles are his fault, even if the four to his left aren't cooperating very much.

by sfgfan on Oct 4, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think what you mean by "average"
is actually "replacement level," i.e. the kind of quarterback that you can find available for trade (for a mid-level draft pick) if you just need a guy to hold down the fort for awhile. (Although I think it's a distinct discredit to Garcia to put him in that category, as he's been good to excellent for most of his NFL career.) Dilfer's subsisted for most of his career in that nebulous zone between average and replacement level; never quite good enough to make you like him, but never quite bad enough to get replaced readily.
It doesn't matter if you get there if you don't know where you're going.

by Zagarna on Oct 4, 2007 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

ok I'm on board
let's scrap the offense as we know it.  Put Battle and Robinson in the backfield, both in a shotgun formation, and run some new/weird spread triple option, where the defense never knows who's getting the snap, and every play they can either pitch to eachother, run, or pass to a receiver.  It'll be unconventional, insane, and totally fucking awesome.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Oct 3, 2007 6:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Works for me
Go with Battle and Robinson lined up parallel to each other in the shotgun with Gore lined up between and back of them forming a triangle.

You could mix in some snaps to Gore who hands the ball to one of the QBs as your play-action.

You could send one of the 2 QBs in motion and then bring them back on a reverse.

It would be total insanity but at least it wouldn't be boring. I've decided this particular post is for the craziest ideas we can think of.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by David Fucillo on Oct 3, 2007 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Patriots used Bledsoe's injury
as a time to insert Brady into the lineup.

Why can't the 49ers be a little more creative than inserting their washed up second-string guy who was, at most, pedestrian in his best years?

Let's see what Shaun Hill can do.  I'd love to see Michael Robinson in there, but it would never happen.

by DraftQBin2008 on Oct 3, 2007 7:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Either pass the pipe or get used to it
Expect Dilfer to be in there until Smith's ready to play.

shlecko, I'd have more faith in your opinion if you didn't overlook the offensive line and the pass receivers. If it's 50% for Smith and 50% for the "playcallers," then that doesn't leave much blame for the torreadors or the guys who don't run their routes or catch the ball or get any separation.

I think Smith was overpaid, and I think that they could have used their number one better, but that year there wasn't much demand for the top pick.

I suspect that Hostler hasn't been able to figure out what to do with the O line problems. I think that Allen is washed up. Heitmann still isn't over his broken leg, doesn't seem quick enough to catch rushers coming at him. Smiley seemed to fall apart Sunday. He may not be great, but he's not that bad. I would hope that some of the other linemen on the bench begin to get plugged into the line. The Niners can "pretend" that Allen is still the starter if they let someone else put lots of time in there.

Watch out for Estes. He's been groomed for being a lineman, but he actually played tight end in college. Expect to see him a lot on run plays, at least until Bajema and Davis are back up. Maybe they'll also throw to him occasionally.

by Bob In Pacifica on Oct 3, 2007 10:06 PM PDT reply actions  

the pipe
speaking of passing the pipe....
Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by David Fucillo on Oct 3, 2007 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, Fooch,
that was the last of it.

by Bob In Pacifica on Oct 4, 2007 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Media Requests please email ninersnation@gmail.com

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ohmygoshilovemiguelxd-1_small
What the 49ers Should Do This Offseason
Frog_small
Official Draft NN Draft Thread

Recent FanPosts

Small
On Dashon Goldson
Images_small
Official Community Thread [2/9/2012] I hate pet peeves
Small
We didn't suck, so we don't need Luck.
Small
Have not heard this QB scenario
Small
49ers Season in a nutshell
Riceprofile_small
Where is the faith in Chilo Rachal?
Small
If Peyton Manning is a free agent, do the 49ers go after him?
Small
Potential QB Draft Targets

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Head Ball Coach

Dave_small David Fucillo

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

313483_2054510893373_1562580382_31984672_1965025_n_small James Brady

Coordinator

Pirates_small smileyman

Bowman_avi_sm_small Tre9er

Assistant Coach

Pixies_logo_small (Florida) Danny Tuccitto

Memento-lies_small urnext

Me_on_beach_small WesHanson

P_willy_america_small Dylan DeSimone

Officiating Crew

Jackalope_card_small wjackalope

These3words_small these3words

San-francisco-49ers-helmet-logo-©photofile_small LondonNiner

Joe_and_bill_small twolfe2

Images_small mcwagner

Thecatch3_small mikeinsp