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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Wide Receivers

As we've moved onto discussion of later draft picks, wide receiver has been a position of great discussion.  I don't have specific stats in front me so I plan on expanding on this topic later.  In the meantime, I'd like to throw some thoughts out there to maybe spur some additional discussion with a more focused area.

Considering the moves the team has made up to this point, one has to wonder how good (or not so good) the 49ers receiver corp is right now.  There has been discussion of adding a Sidney Rice or Robert Meachem.  This would require either trading down in our first rounder or trading up from our second rounder.  Other suggestions call for grabbing a receiver in the 3rd or 4th round such as Aundrae Allison, Jason Hill, Jacoby Jones or one of many other receivers.

Before we can determine where to take a receiver, we really need to establish our thoughts on the present 49ers wide receivers.  I'm in the camp that thinks we could do great things with the existing receivers but I still wouldn't mind using a high pick on another WR.  Of course wide receivers are also a notoriously fickle group of draftees, where it often takes 2-3 seasons for them to find their groove with a team.

So the question is, can we get by with the existing receivers.  Clearly we're going to draft a receiver somewhere and the odds of us hitting the Marques Colston jackpot are rather slim.  So, what do you think?  How good is the 49er receiver corp as it currently stands considering best case, worst case and most realistic scenarios?

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It has gotten...
... extremely quiet around here since the pick was made.  There is plenty of good discussion to be had, so I hope others continue to chime in with their thoughts.

In regards to the current set of receivers (including Vernon Davis), I think the 49ers have a solid corps of wideouts.  They now have speed (potentially) on two sides of the field at all times in Lelie and Davis.  They also have a surehanded "possession" receiver who will fight for the ball in Battle.  That is as balanced a receiver group you're going to get.

I don't think Nolan envisions an offense that will score 30+ points per game or will rack up a ton of yards.  He seems to want to play the good defense and ball control type of game.  With that said, the 49ers have everything they theoretically need as it is.  Rock solid offensive line (especially in the running game), a smart QB who will continue to make fewer mistakes, an elite (albiet potentially fragile) runningback, and a group of solid receivers.

Best case scenario, Lelie turns out to be the 49ers go to guy, drawing double teams.  That leaves Davis one-on-one with a LB or safety a lot of the time, and Battle one-on-one with the opponent's "weaker" corner.  

Worst case scenario, Lelie turns out to be no better than Bryant.  I don't think this would be all that bad.  Bryant did a solid job last season as the team's "primary" receiver.  Smith made a few bad throws from here to there, and the lack of VD for weeks didn't help.  I would like to believe that with VD healthier this year (cross your fingers), he'll have more chances to develop into a suitable alternative weapon to Lelie/Battle.

With that said I really don't think they NEED to draft a wideout, meaning they shouldn't feel compelled to trade up to land one.  Now, I'm not saying that another wideout won't be beneficial to them, either.  I think they for sure need a more "definate" #3, and maybe even a #3 that can act as a #2 from time to time.

While Rice and Meachem definately fit that role, it's hard to justify trading extra picks to move up.  As I've mentioned before, the team has to consider the loss of potential depth they can pick up with those extra picks.  Is it really worth giving up a solid backup tackle or guard (who may actually move into second string if certain trades end up happening) to pick up a wideout like Rice who isn't that much greater than Jason Hill, if at all?  Hill was regarded as one of the nations top wideouts before last season, and being slated to go in the second round (which is where I see him placed most) is a testiment to that.

In regards to trading down to land Meachem: no way, no how.  At #11, the team is looking at potentially Willis, Carriker, or even Branch (yes, its possible, as much as I wouldn't like it to be).  Trading down from that is giving up one of the best defensive players in this year's draft for a wideout who is on the fringe of being considered "second-tier".  Thats a no-no.

by sfgfan on Apr 5, 2007 9:27 AM PDT reply actions  

VD?
Are you ever healthier with VD?  I think we need to come up with a site nickname for him.  I'm gonna make a post to get suggestions and then we'll throw up a poll.
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by David Fucillo on Apr 5, 2007 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well..
... he's got to give us reasons/things to name him after.

by sfgfan on Apr 5, 2007 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

See
I'll keep this short because I'm on the run, but I'm in the camp that thinks with a healthy VD our recievers aren't so bad. I know we're not getting Johnson, and I do think we should draft at least one wideout if nothing else than for the sake of competition, but I just don't see the benefit of going with a second tier guy over a third tier guy this year. The development is still going to be at least two years (probably), the talent difference is pretty arguable, and we can help ourselves out more for the present with a different pick in the second round
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over...

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2007 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Agree
I'm going to throw up a new poll, but I agree with you.  I think this could be a great group of receivers as they work with Alex Smith.  There are plenty of solid defensive options with that 2nd pick.
Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by David Fucillo on Apr 5, 2007 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

VD is no sure thing
While I love the potential impact of a healthy Vernon Davis, I am not on the bandwagon with everyone who says with certainty that the presence of VD gives us an elite, or even an effective, receiving corp.  I feel like I must have been watching another team last year...VD was hurt for most of the year, when he was in the game we saw flashes of athletic brilliance combined with too many dropped passes.  The fact is, he is still a young player who may or may not end up justifying the hype.

This is not an anti-VD rant.  I think he is an awesome athlete who could end up being an excellent receiving tight end.  But to put him in the camp with proven performers like Antonio Gates at this point is ridiculous in my opinion.  I think Nolan and the Niners need to operate under the assumption that our receiving corp is a weakness: we have an unproven player with incredible potential, a fast receiver who has a history of messing up the fundamentals in Lelie, and a developing #2 receiver in Battle.  Come on guys, wide receiver is a weak spot and we should address it with a second tier receiver.

by Call It The Throw on Apr 5, 2007 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes
I agree that Davis is still a pretty big (and fast) wild card, and also that it's a little foolish to believe that he will be ready to step it up to that level for this season, considering what limited development we saw out of him last year. However, I don't think the rest of our recievers are so bad that a second tier guy will be able to step in and take meaningful snaps away from another guy this year.

At the second pick I'm still looking primarily for a guy who can contribute meaningfully this year. WR is a tough position to get that out of. Since this year I don't see a big difference between the second and third tier guys anyway, I see no reason not to wait a round or two to pick a guy.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over...

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Poll
I went with the "Other" option.  I think the 49ers still have needs, but all of the needs are relatively equal.  That being said, it is a perfect time to take the "best player available", when it comes time to pick.  

There are some potentially top-notch offensive linemen that may fall to #42 in Grubbs, Sears, Ugoh, and Blalock.  

There are a couple of wideouts that will be available in Rice, Hill, and possibly Jarrett.  I'm curious about others thoughts on guys like Steve Smith and Anthony Gonzales at WR.

Tank Tyler will more than likely be available at that point.

A DE like Ika Ilama-Francis should be available, but may be a stretch.

Two CBs worth a look at #42 (while not a dire need by any means) may be Marcus McCauley and Eric Wright.

So really, this pick can go in any direction and the 49ers could come out winners.  Preference wise, I'd hope that Rice is there at #42.  If not, then I hope one of those Sears, Ugoh, or Blalock are available.

by sfgfan on Apr 5, 2007 10:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Other
I voted other also, for some of the reasons that sfgfan has already mentioned, but for another reason too.  With our pick 25 spots away, we don't really have a clear picture of who will be there.  Based on DraftTek right now, I'd consider Ryan Kalil, Tank Tyler, Charles Johnson, Brandon Merriweather, Tony Ugoh, Sidney Rice or Craig Davis.  However, if a guy like Jon Beason, Aaron Sears, Ben Grubbs or Justin Blaylock is there we'd have to take him.  Sounds like I'm leaning towards the O-Line, which I might be.  But as sfgfan said, we will likely have the luxury of the best player available.

by gatling on Apr 5, 2007 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Fooch
I read over at Battle Red Blog (an excellent site by the way) that we might be trading back in the second round.  If we can add an extra 3rd rounder to do so, I think that is an excellent idea.  There is a lot of depth out there, and if we could 5 picks in the first 3 rounds instead of 4 that would be great.

by gatling on Apr 5, 2007 11:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Trading back
Moving down in the second could still allow the team to take a guy like Ugoh (OL), Siler (ILB), Kalil (C), Hill (WR) and Davis (WR).  While it is pretty much wishful thinking, Rice may even fall to later in the second.  Extra depth could be a good thing.

by sfgfan on Apr 5, 2007 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Trade Discussions
I did email Tim at Battle Red Blog about potentially trading down.  Really it all depends on what is at our current pick.  While I like the idea of best available player, I want to still make sure we're not drafting somebody because we couldn't think of anybody else to take.

If our pick comes up and this situation unfolds, a trade is always something to consider.  It's possible that if Meachem, Rice, Bowe, etc... are all gone early in the 2nd, we could trade down and grab a receiver without it being such a reach at our current position.  Just a thought.

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by David Fucillo on Apr 5, 2007 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Should we consider sellecting a WR in the 2nd
First and for most, I can not at this point consider our stable of WR's as solid. At this time that would be irresponsible, because VD has endless potential, but possibly due to injury,he has yet to display the production of a #1 option.

Lelie has the speed we are looking for, but his production has been that of a #3 at best. If he steps up and performs as at solid #2,that would be great, but we should not be assumed he will.

Battle has showed some promise, but he has questionable knees. The WR position is a weekness that needs to be addressed in this draft. Our starting O-line is solid and we have a strong running game, but teams will plan to stack the box and force a position (WR's) to carry the offense. We have to field tallent at that position, to create matchup problems and strive to develop a ballanced attack.

My suggestion would be to take the best available defensive player at #11 Willis LB 4.37, Okoye DT with the quickness to play 3-4 DE, Carriker strong 3-4 DE, or Branch DT the big body in the middle.

Pick #42 The best available player would be nice and I feel Jason Hill WR 4.32 and very quick would be a great pick.

Instead of trading down in the second, we could consider trading #76-3rd rd, and #100-4th rd for an extra 2nd rd pick. Their are a couple of teams with two 2nd's. If we did such a deal we could draft a quality 2nd rounder and we would still have #97-3rd and three 4th's.

We could add quality depth at OL, or a pass rush OLB with the extra 2nd.

I love the moves this off season and we are sitting in a great position in this year draft. (numerous extra picks)

by alliyah1122 on Apr 5, 2007 10:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Would you pull the trigger?
I saw a program on the NFL Network today about the top 10 greatest draft day trades ever. The Steve Young trade was rated very high and the move Bill Walsh made to swap our 1st, and give up our 2nd and 3rd round picks to move up to pick #16, one spot ahead of Dallas to steal the greatest WR ever (Mr. Rice), was rated the greatest draft day trade ever. It's hard to imagine how our team would have fared without these two significant moves.

Would you consider a trade of our 1st rd picks this year and next year, second rd #42 and third rd #76 for the opportunity to move up and pick Calvin Johnson WR the highest rated draft pick in years?

The year we got Rice, he was the only pick in that draft, that panned out and our draft was considered greatly successful.

Consider seeing QB A.Smith, RB F. Gore, TE V. Davis and WR C. Johnson lining up together for years to come. That group has to be considered awsome! Just a thought, please give me your feedback.

I love the moves this off season and we are sitting in a great position in this year draft. (numerous extra picks)

by alliyah1122 on Apr 5, 2007 11:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Trading
If you can get a guy you think would be a huge impact guy, why not make the deal?  I don't see the team doing it, but it would be pretty cool to roll him out there with Gore, Davis and Smith.  If the team truly believed CJ would turn into a great receiver I would jump all over that deal.  It's a lot to give up, but everyone seems to think this guy is money in the bank.
Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by David Fucillo on Apr 6, 2007 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

If...
... the team was only one player away, and that player happened to be a wideout, then I'd say, "Sure, go for it".  However, that isn't the case.

The draft during the early Walsh days is significantly different than it is today.  Free agency (and in turn, the salary cap) wasn't as big of an issue back during that time.  So the idea of "locking" players up wasn't really a problem.

Now-a-days, locking up players in very difficult to do.  With the free agent market (demand and supply) being erratic as it is, it's hard to predict what positions will be worth what at what time.  So it's a good idea to continually pile up quality depth, as signing quality depth isn't as easy as it had been before.

With that said, even if the 49ers made the playoffs this year, a 1st round pick next year could easily do them wonders.  With guys like Bryant Young, Derek Smith, Larry Allen, Jonas Jennings, Jeff Ulbrich, and Marques Douglas on the roster, it's hard to justify selling off future replacements for ONE guy.

Think about it, a second rounder this year could currently yield a potential starting OG or OT, WR, ILB, or even DT.  A third rounder could potentially yield a solid backup (if not starter) at OG, OT, WR, OLB, RB, FS/SS.  That is just with this year's 2nd and third rounder.  Next year's first rounder would definately be a starter somewhere, with all of the possible turnover in the next couple of years.

Right now, trading those picks would be mortgaging the future of the 49ers franchise, for one player.  One player that doesn't necessarily make Nolan's vision of the offense that much more complete.  I want C.Johnson as much as the next guy, but a buy like Willis, Carriker, or even Branch would help this team more in the long-run, especially if it allowed the team to take quality guys in the 2nd and third as well.

Trading up in the first this year just isn't worth it.

by sfgfan on Apr 6, 2007 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

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