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Giants 29 - 49ers 17: Just Turnovers O'Sullivan snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

Alright, I've been a J.T. O'Sullivan defender these last few weeks as he's made one boneheaded decision after another.  But, today's performance was just an epic crap-fest.  The great touchdown to Josh Morgan aside, JTO had a fine mix of overthrows, turnovers, fumbles and general bad decision making.  He actually fumbled the ball FOUR TIMES.  Only one was lost, but he really struggled holding onto the ball.

Of course the offensive line didn't give him a whole lot of time, but even when he had time, he still managed a pair of patented momentum killing interceptions.  No interception is good, but JTO has an amazing ability to throw his interceptions right when the 49ers have turned the momentum in their favor.

Maybe the 49ers weren't going to win this game, but they would have had a much better shot without the ugliness on offense.  I've got plenty more to say about this debacle and of course another patented Mike Nolan performance, but for now I'll leave you with appropriate video.  Nosetackle Supreme mentioned The Three Stooges and clearly it is wildly appropriate after today.

Editor's Note: And thanks to everybody who took part in the discussion today.  It wasn't a pretty result, but sometimes it's best to go through this with a large group of people.  Consider it some sort of therapy?


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Name# of Posts
Bob On The Coast 115
Florida Danny 92
SSreporters 79
DuikeBuike 68
Fooch 58
Josh from Hollywood 56
AndYourBirdCanSing 51
Nosetackle Supreme 43
CB30 38
49erLou 37
wjackalope 34
TripTheNinja 33
warriorfan4life 16
baybruin415 15
anaheim angels 8
niner52 7
zonedogs 7
howtheyscored 6
Bitter Fan 6
montasmob69 6
Smithisstilltheanswer 5
marcello 5
Cruithear 4
sam23 2
jtoj 2
Muy Macho 2
PHUT! 1
bayboy 1

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jaws of victory

Just to pre-empt it, I’m not saying the 49ers would definitely have won without the mistakes. I simply think they had a great shot at a win if JTO hadn’t turned the ball over so many times.

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by Fooch on Oct 19, 2008 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i think

that jaws of victory quote should be the official motto of this season

Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal

by 49erLou on Oct 19, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

official moto

I added it to the front page. If you check out the top left of the front page you’ll see it.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Oct 19, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice

it’s perfect

Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal

by 49erLou on Oct 19, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His turnovers are stupid ones, at that.

I can’t believe he didn’t see the safety on that one quick pass. The safety was AT MOST three steps away from where he started at the snap of the play.

The last fumble was ridiculous, too. He had JUST had the ball slapped away and was lucky enough to have Sims land on it, and then he goes ahead and just forgets to protect the ball a few plays later.

You said it very well Fooch. It seems like his turnovers come when the 49ers finally may have a little momentum going their way. Even if momentum wasn’t, they come at times they need him to protect the ball the most. It’s utterly ridiculous.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy I can’t wait to hear Martz’s presser on how the JTO’s performance was his (or battle/morgan/gore/davis/sims/staley/heitman/snyder’s) fault and how O’Sullivan is easily the best QB he’s ever had to work with.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

nolan's greatest hits already on KNBR

“our defensive coaches had a great gameplan.”

“it was just unfortunate that we lost with a defensive performance like that.”

“our guys played hard, we just came up short.”

by Florida Danny on Oct 19, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I happen to think...

… the 49ers defense did very well. If you take away the first quarter or so, the defense wasn’t really bad. They kept the offense in the game. You’d get torn up eventually if your offense kept throwing you on the field, too.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

in re non-challenge on 3rd down spot

“if they were short, that’s the first i’ve heard of it. no one told me at the time.”

by Florida Danny on Oct 19, 2008 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ah, the good old Pygmy who has never left his own community excuse.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that good...

I could have done better than that. My standards are higher than that. See me now in my shame.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I promise that your standards are not higher than that.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 19, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah, I don’t like playing jokes with genetics. I regretted it the second I hit post.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless those genetics are the ones that make “stupid.” That’s the exception.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, I think this might be worth some discussion as this debacle goes on and on.

In short, it occured to me today that there is a very reasonable chance that Alex Smith could still be the most attractive starting QB for this team in ‘09. It’s not fair to write Shaun Hill off, and I’m not trying to do that, but there is a possibility that if Hill gets a chance this year he doesn’t show us anything more than JTO. The thought is simply being prepared for that possibility.

Alex Smith our best option for ‘09? It’s far too early to tell, and a little frightening, but the possibility is much more realistic than I would have thought 7 weeks ago.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

salary

Do you think he’d be willing to take less money to stay?

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Oct 19, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m wondering if we’ll even have the options available to actually risk releasing him.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand, also, that seriously discussing something like this is still at least 8 weeks away. But I can’t help wondering.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Valid thought.

If it weren’t for that tremendous salary hit, the 49ers would never even entertain releasing Smith. He’s already guaranteed a large chunk, but I think he also makes ~$5M in base salary if he stays on the roster.

It’s kind of a silly way to look at it, but I don’t think the 49ers NEED that money. They’re in a really good place, in terms of cap space, so if they felt like Smith is the better option, I think, financially, it’s not that big a deal to the team at all. Now if you want to throw the principle of it all on top of just the raw financial issues, then things definitely get a little more muddled.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I mentioned below...

Smith is already taking a pretty big chunk of the salary cap whether he stays or not. The difference would be, probably, around $5M (if I remember right from Maiocco’s many posts on the subject). I don’t think he’d give back any of his bonuses, as I doubt his agent would like that too much.

I do think it’s a possibility he stays, though.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bring in a new offense

Like a guy who can evaluate QB’s like Holmgren. Let him decide if Smith is Worth Keeping. With a new HC and a new offense then I bet Smith would like to stay and willing to renegotiate is contract. With Nolan and Martz back I bet Smith will want out. Who would blame him. The season will get worse. The players are starting to turn on JTO. They don’t believe in him anymore so they will want a change at QB. That might forse the team to bench him and promote Hill. Not that he will do much better. Maybe after this week the Yorks will fire Nolan and promote Singletary. I’ve been watching the pressure our D-line gets. It aint much even when we blitz. We need someone to come up with some creative blitz packages to create some pressure. Our defense played much better today. Struggled early but got much better as the game went on. With all the TO’s it could have been much worse. I see plenty of teams getting pressure with the same amount of talent level. We got talented guys on D. They should be much better than this.

by JFRIZZLE on Oct 19, 2008 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The players are starting to turn on JTO. They don’t believe in him anymore so they will want a change at QB.

Sorry to nitpick, but I’m wondering where this little bit is coming from. Has anybody on the team said something or acted in a way that was critical of JTO?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the announcers

on the game kind of noticed JT spending alot of time alone on the sideline. They seemed rather surprised that neither of the back-up QB’s came to talk with him after the INT’s. Then they pointed out the noone had really talked to him at all and then they started making a big deal saying that the team might be turning on him.

I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I definitely heard the announcers babbling about it. I think I remember seeing Shaun Hill standing next to him after the first INT, but then again I do remember seeing him sitting all by himself most of the time they showed him. It’s been said he’s a prick, so I don’t think I would be surprised if alot of people didn’t like him. Especially since he sucks too.

Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal

by 49erLou on Oct 19, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks. Interesting.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 20, 2008 6:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

O'Sullivan

O’Sullivan is kind of a jackass. I don’t think I’d go near him after he made a bonehead (and obvious) mistake. Maybe he wanted to have some time to just think it over himself?

He seems to be pretty hard on himself. It’s almost as if he knows that it’s primarily his fault that the offense is struggling (as I think the offensive line did as good a job as they could, considering the Giants’ front seven’s talent) and he had receivers (except Davis) catching his passes more often than not.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

p.s.

i might be wrong, but i’m pretty sure the safety covered the spread for the giants. i think morgan got the line at 11.5 (-105).

by Florida Danny on Oct 19, 2008 1:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So, how long until Shaun Hill gets a chance?

Not to say he’ll be for sure better, but do the Niners really have anything to lose?

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 19, 2008 1:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hopefully soon

JTO is too careless with the ball

by niner52 on Oct 19, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you were Mike Martz

I think you would have meant to say this:

JTOMike Martz is too careless with the ball best QB he’s ever had.

I’m ashamed for you to say that if you were Mike Martz, you would, in fact, speak in the first person.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Nolan-

“Mike Nolan Challenges Mike Martz speaking in the first person.”

"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh

by TripTheNinja on Oct 19, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

During the bye?

I think the bye week may be the best time to let Hill step in and work with the first team. Most teams generally take the bye week off (i.e. film sessions and working out, but no real strategizing**or practice), but I think if they switch QBs during that time, they need to work with him.

  • Is that even a word?

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

… apparently even the double asterisk turns into a bullet point. Good job.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

niners' post game is a perfect example...

…of how people who love the niners have been conditioned to accept mediocrity. starkey praises nolan for holding the giants to a below-average performance on offense. plummer praises the coaches for being more aggressive with their defensive playcalling, and says the aggression threw the giants offense “off kilter.” guys, THEY GAVE UP 27 POINTS ON DEFENSE….AGAIN!!!

by Florida Danny on Oct 19, 2008 1:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope Oakland beats the Jets

Put more pressure on the Yorks to DO SOMETHING!! Anything can make this better at this point.

"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh

by TripTheNinja on Oct 19, 2008 2:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i think i'm desensitized

at JTO’s turnovers now. Somehow, I can sense when he’s going to mess up

it’s getting uglier and uglier

Formerly known as phutmasterflex

by PHUT! on Oct 19, 2008 2:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Somehow, I can sense when he’s going to mess up

Me too. I get that feeling every time he has the ball.

Spooky!

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 19, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not me

I only get that feeling first throught fourth down.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I guess he is pretty good on half down

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 19, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there a single loss this season...

that JTO is not directly responsible for?

In his defense, I think there were a total of 5 plays where he got decent blocking. We need to address the O line and D line heavily in the offseason.

I think I pulled my swagger muscle...

by BawLa on Oct 19, 2008 2:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

to answer your question...

in the 49ers’ two wins — 0 interceptions
in the 49ers’ five losses — 10 interceptions

by Florida Danny on Oct 19, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we start doing statisticle comparisons to mediocre teams. It feels better that way.

"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh

by TripTheNinja on Oct 19, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

like i said many many many many times last week, JTO is another martz turnover machine and we can ACCURATELY judge him after these few starts.. he will continue to do this as long as they let him. HE’S JUST NOT GOOD. The season is over, and all hope is lost. What a F****** joke.

by TedRamey on Oct 19, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Join our session below. It eases the pain.

"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh

by TripTheNinja on Oct 19, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not good.

I think O’Sullivan is pretty okay. He is just kind of reckless with the ball (both protecting it in the pocket and throwing it). He DOES make good reads and will hit WRs in stride most of the time. His turnovers, and the losses that have resulted from them, are a big reason why people are down on O’Sullivan. I don’t think people don’t see talent in him, they just see WAYY to many mistakes.

With that said, I’m all for benching him now. It can’t really get any worse.

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

statisticle?

is that like analyzing stats with your testicles?

by Florida Danny on Oct 19, 2008 2:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t say anything in hope that you would find a joke in it. I prefer to just think with them.

"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh

by TripTheNinja on Oct 19, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every game

is like a kick in the nuts.

by Bob On The Coast on Oct 19, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Nolan has absolutely no balls

Things are certainly getting testes in the Bay Area, as everyone is going nuts about the poor play from the 49ers, that has been led by Nolan.

Time for the organization to grow a pair and fire this man.

Signature? SIGNATURE?! Don't talk about SIGNATURE! I just hope I can write a sentence!

by SSreporters on Oct 19, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is my problem

Since Nolan has been coach it’s been getting harder and harder to tell whether or not it’s bad play or lack of talent, or both. I thought that there has been some improvement on the level of talent, but we get the same results.

For ex, I think that there’s a lack of talent on the D-line, but when Nolan went to his big sub thing it further reduced pressure on the opposition’s quarterback. That strikes me as bad strategy, although it doesn’t mean that there’s talent there on the D-line..

Martz’ offense is precisely the wrong offense to run with a weak offensive line and an inexperienced quarterback. He’s going to get bashed, intercepted. He’s going to make mistakes. A better fit would be a more conservative ball control offense, especially when you’ve got a guy like Gore to run the ball. I know most people blame JTO, but whether he’s better or as bad as he seems to be, if he were running a more conservative offense, handing off to Gore fifteen more times a game, throwing to receivers running shorter routes, he’d be more successful. If the offense is Martz’ fault, then Martz is Nolan’s fault. And if Nolan was planning on a bend but don’t break defense, then he sure as hell shouldn’t have brought in Martz to run his offense.

The Niners are 2-5. It seems to me this is the way every year of the Nolan regime starts out. There really isn’t any reason to go any farther with him. Martz has convinced me that he isn’t the answer. I have no idea if Singletary or Manusky are the guys. But by taking Nolan out of the equation the Niners ownership will at least see how much of this clusterf*ck is Nolan’s incompetence and how much is lack of talent. It will also at least eliminate someone else on the staff as next head coach if he also screws up, or could possibly show us someone who could get the team out of this mess.

But without taking Nolan out of the equation the team goes nowhere. Forever.

by Bob On The Coast on Oct 19, 2008 3:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nolan just texted Cable and told him to use a time out

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Oct 19, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hhahahahaha, freaking raiders

by TedRamey on Oct 19, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perspective from Giants Stadium

I was “lucky” enough to watch the game at Giants stadium. A few comments:

1) 5 minimum big fights in the stands, a lot of pissed niner fans that weren’t going to take the crap that the giants fans were dishing out. Kind of made me proud to be a niner fan.

2) What did NOT make me proud to be a niner fan was the apathetic and hectic play that Just Turn Overs had during the game. Early in the 1st (I believe it was the second possession, when we were making our first actual drive) the linebackers blitzed JTO, and gore (i think) picked up the block. However, JTO flinched very badly right before the blitz was picked up, and almost curled up and fell on his own, expecting to get whalloped up the middle. That event, and his “scrambling” skills shows me that JTO is playing scared, and that is a very bad thing to have in an offense that is all about timing and confidence in that position.

3) The only time the crowd was out of the game was when the giants shot themselves in the foot (a la plax’s personal foul for talking crap to the ref, which was hilarious to watch the build-up to) and when Clemens returned the field goal (finally earning that massive contract). The niners never scared the giants fans, who are usually easy to spook and turn against their own team.

4) nolan’s defensive schemes seemed thrown together last minute, the second timeout in the second half example to his unpreparedness and unsure-of-himself-and-his-defense-for-good-reason attitude.

Niner fans at the game took a lot of abuse, and most of us are not happy about how our team humiliated us on the east coast. Hopefully a win against seattle can instill some hope in the team that can spark a second half that gets us back to .500.

Blind devotion.

by ProfessorBigelow on Oct 19, 2008 6:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

too bad

we don’t play CIncy this year…that’s the only team that’s probably worse then us

Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal

by 49erLou on Oct 19, 2008 7:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

oh wait

the Lions are pretty bad too

Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal

by 49erLou on Oct 19, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coach has to go, J.T. needs more time

Ok for all you guys here, I liked nolan, but he can’t do anything, can’t go for it on 4th and 5, yet in previous games makes challenges on plays that he shouldn’t have challenged. Niners need to get rid of nolan, he can’t do anything, he should be like working for special teams of a high school football team. But i still like JTO more than Shaun Hill, and more than Alex. I have my reasons, lets first talk about Shaun. While shaun did win two last year, lets look at his numbers, shall we (excluding minnesotas game)
Vs. Cincinatti 21/28 197 1 td 1rsh td
vs. Tampa BAy 11/24 123 3td 1int
Now i am going to explain why i dont want hill starting, being that he won, and that was good in 07, none of those games matter, all he can throw are 5 yd passes, 7 yds if your lucky and if he throws a 15 yd pass as he did in preseason, he will be intercepted. Secondly he played a cincinatti defense and tampa bay 2nd string defense, and against a tampa bay defense he threw 11/24. that sucks and against cincinatti well we all know just how bad cincinatti’s defense is. And in preseason, hill threw no td passes, nothing, but he did throw an interception when he tried to throw a 20 yd pass. My point being, hill can’t be good, maybe if he can throw more than 5 yd slots, but from what i have seen i dont see him being any good.

I like JTO, i am going to state right now that he is sloppy with the ball and has thrown interceptions. At the same time, J.T. has looked good in the pocket at times, he has a good realease, is pretty accurate without the dropped passes from recievers (cough vernon davis, arnaz battle, josh morgan). Unlike alex smith or shaun hill, he can really drive us down the field, averages over 225 yds a game. But at the same time i know his bad parts. But isnt everybody like that at the beginning. Peyton Manning threw 28 int his first year starting, eli threw 20 last year, drew brees had a 55% completion percentage his rookie season. Look J.T. has been in the year for 7 years, but you cant expect him to be a kurt warner or tom brady or peyton manning at their primes. NO. You have to give him time. I think he will progress really well and eventually, in the last 6, 7 games he will do fantastic, but we will see. I also think J.T. has to have a better o-line, get rid of alex smith, use the money on some o-linemen, and get some time for J.T. to throw. If J.T. gets sacked less, he can do really good, (I think)

by ill23will4 on Oct 19, 2008 9:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I’ve thought about this before, and I really don’t know how much time you can give him. The thing with development is that quite a bit of it actually has to do with age. I can’t think of a single player who won (or fell into) a starting job at such a late age who actually improved over the next season or two along what I would call developmental lines. Kurt Warner? He might have had his best season his first year as a starter at the age of 28. Doug Flutie? He DID have his best season in his first year starting at the age of 36. Jeff Garcia? The stats kind of make him look like he had a curve, but he put up all-star numbers his second year starting and never looked back. And even then, in his first year starting at age 29, he seldom turned the ball over and tended to look better than a lot of his offensive teammates.

So, how long exactly can we wait on JTO? How much does experience count for a guy who is going to be 30 in a matter of months?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 20, 2008 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the problem is this:

they have no realistic options other than JTO. Shaun Hill can’t throw the deep ball required in the Martz offense. The FA pool is ugly, and it would take them too long to pick up on Martz’s offense. And whether or not you think Smith could still be a productive 49er quarterback, it’s pretty clear from the team’s actions/non-actions that they are done with Smith.

I would not be shocked at all if Nolan is canned during the bye week and Overlord Marks Martz takes the reigns. And honestly? I don’t think he’d make a good head coach, but something has to be done. Nolan’s mismanagement of timeouts, the play clock, challenges, and defensive schemes are unacceptable, and the team needs some big changes.

I’m still of the opinion that we ride the JTO train for another year or two, and draft a QB this offseason to let him develop while JTO keeps us in the sucking-to-mediocrity area. Colt McCoy, anyone?

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 20, 2008 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Examples

To add to your point, your examples all had tons of experience in another league, no? They were successful before they took their first NFL steps.

While I’m not against giving O’Sullivan more time, I’m definitely for trying out Hill. Whether or not he has the arm isn’t that important right now. The team first, and foremost, needs to protect the ball. I don’t know if Hill is capable of it, but it certainly can’t get any worse than O’Sullivan. I’m sure Hill can throw those 15 to 20 yard in routes. I don’t think a Martz QB NEEDS to unload a 30 to 40 yard go route. I don’t think think Trent Green ever had a really strong arm, did he?

by sfgfan on Oct 20, 2008 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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