Now lets Bench JT
Singletary make a statement......use Gore and bench JT....Please shake it up. We need to intimidate our opponents. You have the D? You have the offensive experience. We have a chance to mix this divison up. Arizona is a very unstable division opponent as is the Rams. Bench him and let's get this season back. Gore in the strong off tackle and the blast up the middle. He loves to hit someone. Get it to the playmakers. Vernon Davis is a great unselfish blocker, why don't we run off to his side? Go Niners!!!!!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Start Hill?
What benefit do we get from starting Hill? It’s the same offense after all and he lacks the deep arm.
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Gore
Maybe I just want change to come and looking at the games that Hill played last year we mixed it up with Gore and less mistakes. I think JT holds on to the ball too long and makes poor decisions especially in the red zone. Let’s get back to consistancy. The long ball is good…..but what good is it if you fumble or throw a pick the next play?
You don't intimidate your opponent by making a dumb statement.
"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh
You made an incoherent fanpost, that's why.
Signature? SIGNATURE?! Don't talk about SIGNATURE! I just hope I can write a sentence!
Run The Damn Ball
Incoherent… Don’t throw into double coverage. Your best defense is a good offense…come on now.
well hard to make this case
if you’re getting stuffed on basically every run play.
btw, if martz is such a great coach, why didn’t he correct the way Just Turnovers holds the ball in the pocket. he just has it out there in one hand instead of the textbook two hands approach.
anyway, Right Tackle should be the 1st roster move. Snyder has played tackle in the past. If that side stabilizes, they can double team on the left side b/c Staley is getting burned far too often.
If a QB change is going to happen, and i doubt it – judging from the reports that Hill can’t even throw an out route – it should happen during the bye week. Just like there’s reasons JTO is a 29 yr old career backup, there’s a reason Hill is a 28 yr old career backup. At least Just Turnovers has been good enough to be on NFL teams. Hill has only made one other team (2005 vikings).
Eventually defenses will realize he doesn’t have an NFL arm and creep up to the line. Ppl say Montana didn’t have a strong arm, but he still had an NFL caliber arm along with great “touch”. Hill has neither. If we weren’t running the Martz system, Hill is probably a very, very poor man’s Vince Young. and Vince isn’t even as good as Kerry Collins.
So QB will have to wait till somewhere in the draft.
by the evil monkey on Oct 21, 2008 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't Gore held to 11 yards on 11 carries last week?
Or was that just rumored in Hawk land to make us think we may actually win another game this season?
No…pretty sure he was held to 11 yards….
"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh
by TripTheNinja on Oct 20, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess that last post didn't work, repeat..
I have a problem with being honest too.
"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh
by TripTheNinja on Oct 20, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
You're doing it wrong!
I think it goes something like:
LOL WUT
Right jtoj?
If anything, I think the first changes that really need to be made are defensively. I like the notion of benching Mark Roman and putting in Dashon Goldson, and maybe looking at the cornerback situation in regards to Walt Harris. I’d rather see them shore up the defense than worry too much about the offense.
My mind was boggled after Sunday’s game when I looked at the stat line for JTO and saw he completed 58ish% of his passes and threw for like 9.1 yards per play. I was amazed! Now if the dude could learn to a) throw the ball away or at least throw it quickly and b) learn to grip the ball so it doesn’t come loose every damn time you’re hit, then we’d be in better shape. I definitely don’t think JTO is the answer at quarterback for this franchise, but QB is one position where I really don’t think we’re going to benefit from a change.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
i don't know if you listen to Gary Plummer
but i think he’s right that outside of our obvious lack of stout defensive linemen, most of our defensive deficiencies seem to be scheme related.
former 9er Eric Davis has a blog that also mentions that a lot of our problems defensively seem to be more about scheme as well as technique.
http://www.49ers.com/pressbox/news_detail.php?PRKey=4787
there’s a specific passage about not playing outside/in coverage in the red zone as being FOOTBALL 101.
too bad this firing didn’t happen over the offseason like it should of and included Ron Rivera rejoining his former teammate as defensive coordinator. maybe we don’t have to suffer through Martz (lots of points & yards, but no ball control along w/ tons of risk in terms of sacks and to’s).
i can’t say Manusky has looked all that impressive calling plays. when was the last time our defense dialed up the perfect play against an opposition’s play? it seems like we’re often caught off guard by screen passes and other obvious safe plays on 2nd/3rd and long.
by the evil monkey on Oct 21, 2008 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Topsy turvy franchise..
I am just curious, since when did the head coach, become the head motivational speaker.. I am not that old but i do remember an era, where the head coach was the Guru and his staff were his minions.. the players where the soldiers, taking orders.. Is Mike Singletary a GURU?? not sure.. This franchise is doomed, i picked them to win 3 games this year, at first i thought i had severely under estimated the team, but as they say, time reveals all, and it seems 3 wins may be a stretch.. I hate the Yorks!! cant stand the Yorks!! They are the worst, please sell the team!! please!! oh wait, build a new stadium and then sell the team!! The Yorks are the worst ever, another example of bad ownership ruining a good franchise, lucky for the they got Al Davis across the bay to make the look good..
J GO
the worst?
Why are they so awful? Yes they kept Nolan around but how many people thought this was a horrible hire at the beginning? Since then they’ve invested money in free agents and given Nolan tools. He has failed with those talented players and so has been fired. What’s the problem?
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by David Fucillo on Oct 20, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
he probably meant "one of the worst" since he sites Al Davis making the Yorks look good
Denise York’s biggest problem is she doesn’t care.
John York’s biggest problem is he seems to be caught up in trying to be “revolutionary” or a “genius” that’s why instead of going with the NFL tried and true, he tries to make the team more business-like or flips the hierarchy of GM/coach and whatnot. He doesn’t want to just be one of those owners who are praised for getting out of the way, he wants credit for putting it together.
we’ll see on Jed, but so far he seems to resemble his father and on top of that, seems to consider himself a “football person.”
they badly need someone to run the football side of the organization. like parcells as the exec. vp of football ops for the dolphins or how ernie accorsi was brought on as a consultant to create a structure for the falcons which eventually brought in Patriots dir. of college scouting, Thomas Dimitroff, who brought in former jags def. coord. Mike Smith b/c of a shared philosophy.
i’m curious. What is McClueless’s philosophy? based on the team’s draft history it sure seems like it, but maybe he isn’t clueless. either way, if he doesn’t have a philosophy on how you win football games, then he needs a Parcell’s type above him who does have this vision.
it’s so simple it’s maddening.
by the evil monkey on Oct 21, 2008 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions
on the benching JTO bandwagon ...
I’m close to jumping on this bandwagon here – I know we keep hearing poor “reports” about Hill being able to do anything with Martz’s offense, but after what he did for us last season I really don’t see why we can’t just give him a chance – he made some pretty good plays.
But the one thing that is keeping me in the “keep starting JTO camp” is the good that we’ve seen so far. It’s just that these turnovers have got to stop. Singletary knows it. Martz knows it. And O’Sullivan has got to know it. If they continue, like oh say, in this Seattle game – then fuck it, start Shaun Hill. But if these turnovers can be contained, and JTO actually completes the passes that are currently interceptions – then we’ve got something pretty cool going all of a sudden.
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
Exactly.
I know people are making a big deal out of Hill’s arm not being able to throw some of Martz routes, but Martz CAN adjust too, can’t he? At some point, if the primary reason why your team is losing is because your offense is turning over the ball all the damn time, shouldn’t ball security become a top priority?
If the source of most (and I mean practically all) of those turn overs are the fault of the QB, why not make the change? There’s no guarantee that Hill will be a better QB, but it’s HIGHLY unlikely that the results can get any worse.
what is highly likely is
Hill turns the ball over less, but we don’t get all those plays down the field that JTO brings. so scoring will be down for us, but we’d probably be putting our defense in better positions to keep the opposition scoring down. net effect, zero? hard to say.
one is a 29 yr old career back up who can make the throws, but is a poor decision maker. the other is a 28 yr old career back up who has made only one other team (vikings 05) who can’t make the throws, but is a good decision maker.
basically JTO has the hawks game to show some improvement in decision making before it’s time for a change.
by the evil monkey on Oct 21, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The time is now...
Bench JTO now and give the ball to Hill.
Put the game plan around Hill’s abilities. Lots of short outs, flats, and screens. And, of course, give the ball to Gore in the red zone and build off play-action.
turnovers are the key
I was against JTO starting in the first place. Having said that, I have to admit, he has done some good things at times. However, the amount of turnovers is unexcusable. The Niners are just not good enough to overcome being shot in the foot multiple times a game by JTO. What good is 200 yards passing, if the turnovers end up killing drives. Honestly, I’m not much of a fan of Hill. Hill can’t throw it very far, but maybe he can throw it to someone wearing crimson and gold.
well turnovers are the key for Just TurnOvers, er...JTO
with Hill we might not even be in it in the 4th quarter for that to be a deciding factor.
Nowin really screwed this up by hiring a gunslinger at OC in Martz. this all but ruined Hill’s chances.
and i can’t believe the 9ers didn’t at least draft a QB in the 08 draft. w/ our QB situation, McClueless should be drafting a QB in the draft EVERY YEAR. i don’t care what round. it’s ridiculous. you can never be too deep at QB. teams will trade two 2nd round picks and the right to switch 1st round draft position for guys that show a glimmer like Matt Schaub, Trent Green fetched a 1st rounder (12) from the Chiefs for the Rams after Kurt Warner emerged, 2nd round pick for Culpepper, 2nd round pick for AJ Feeley, and though this was a mistake, Favre was traded by the Falcons for the a 1st rounder (19). even if you crap out on guys like McCown and Frye you can pick you up 4th/5th/6th rounders. who knows what Derek Anderson will fetch.
by the evil monkey on Oct 21, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
SIGN CULPEPPER!!!!!!!!!!!
For the rest of the season anyways
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
He's not crazy
Why would Culpepper want to sign with the Niners? So he can get the snot beat out of him behind our O-line? He will have some options during the next offseason, he would be smarter to wait until then.
Jt n turnovers
After listening to Singletary today things will be addressed. Such as turnovers. I’m good with that. You turn it over you will pay.
singletary said it...
these players will be challenged to there core. so if jto’crappavin keeps giving up the ball he will get benched and i feel he has 2 games at the most to prove hes not going to keep doing that. with that in mind they won’t be any worse sticking hill in there. atleast he as some ball security. and keep in mind hes tied with jtosuck with wins…so can’t go wrong with putting him in.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
Coach speak
No one really has an idea of what Singletary’s going to do different. Heck, I’m thinking Singletary, himself, isn’t really sure what he’s going to do different. What does “challenge them to the very core” mean? Obviously it’s motivational speak. It’s not like these players aren’t challenged everyday and every week. They’re just not up to the challenge.
Here's an idea
Let’s tape hundred dollar bills to the pigskin during practice drills and whoever gets JTO to, well, TO, gets the cash. We’ll end up with a smarter QB either way, whether the jersey says “Hill” or “O’Sullivan”, the only difference will be how much richer Bamm-Bamm gets.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I'm flabbergasted...
by all this anti-JTO feeling. It’s like everybody thinks he is the sole reason for all the problems the team is having. Now,coming fromand living in England, I admit I do not have the depth of knowledge of the game that you guys have, not having grown up with the game and not being privy to the day-to-day media coverage and analysis.
I’m sure you guys will shoot me down on this but, as far as I can see, the problems are with the o-line. Having watched the games, it seems to me that JTO is being and pressured on virtually every play. This surely is down to the fact that the o-line is not giving JTO the time and protection he needs.
How often have we seen JTO flushed out of the pocket and run in order to buy himself the time he and his receivers need? And of the receivers, are they running their routes or making themselves open effectively enough?
I know the point has often been made that he has been a backup for 6yrs and is therefore not good enough, but it seems to me that he has shown plenty of potential. One thing I do know for sure is that the best way for him to learn is by playing games, and he has now only played seven, and it will take time and patience is therefore needed.
I realise this will incense many of you, but I believe that many of the turnovers JTO has made have underlying causes…they are the product of constantly being hurried,pressured and ultimately sacked throughout the game,this leads to JTO’s decision-making being affected as the game progresses.I do believe that the play calling has not helped – we do not run the ball anywhere near enough times and we try deep passes far too often for my liking. I could be wrong on this, but it seems to me that a fair number of the turnovers comes when we the game is slipping away momentum wise, or we are simply chasing the game-perhaps fooch can show some stats on this.
Our complete lack of a pass rush from the defense, does not help this situation as I believe the offense feel they have to get TD’s all the time, in order to stay in the game, and this puts so much pressure on them from the outset.
Up till now, I have stayed quiet and just read everybodies comments and opinions with great interest, but I feel I now have to speak up in JTO’s defence – and to get it off my chest. There, I’m off my soap box now, and await the barrage…
by Ninerfromacrossthepond on Oct 22, 2008 7:01 PM PDT reply actions
stats
During the last game thread, Florida Danny put together a list. The breakdown is:
1Q = 2
2Q = 2
3Q = 2
4Q = 4
Here’s the game breakdown:
vs. ARI — 4:15 1Q, up 7-3, down 3rd and 3 @ SF 47
@ SEA — none
vs. DET — none
@ NO — 2:44 3Q, down 21-9, 2nd and 5 @ NO 10; 9:59 4Q, down 28-9, 1st and 10 @ NO 16;
vs. NE — 12:51 1Q, tied 0-0, 1st and 10 @ NE 45; 8:08 3Q, down 17-14, 2nd and 2 @ SF 21; 4:42 4Q, down 30-21, 4th and 16 @ SF 40
vs. PHI — 6:23 4Q, down 27-26, 3rd and 18 @ SF 30; 1:10 4Q, down 33-26, 2nd and 10 @ SF 25
@ NYG — 3:24 2Q, down 14-10, 1st and 10 @ SF 15; 0:22 2Q, down 17-10, 1st and 10 @ NYG 19
Here’s the down breakdown:
1st — 4
2nd — 3
3rd — 2
4th — 1
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by David Fucillo on Oct 22, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
A lot of things wrong.
Of course there are a lot of things that this team can improve upon. As you mention, the offensive line needs to step up and do it’s job. Similarly, the defensive front seven NEEDS to put pressure on the quarterback.
However, even with the lack of a pass rush on defense, the defense has (generally) kept this team in the game. Even after the offense’s numerous turnovers, you can almost count on the defense to hold the other team to a field goal or less most of the time.
The reason people are so down on O’Sullivan is not that he makes mistakes. Quarterbacks will always make mistakes, even Tom “Terrific” will from time to time. The problem with O’Sullivan is that he doesn’t seem to be learning from them. On top of it all, his mistakes seem to almost always come when the team is actually still in the game (which is what infuriates fans the most, I’m sure).
An example of “not learning” is just last week. I’ve mentioned it numerous times, but I’ll point it out again. He was out of the pocket with the ball away from him in one hand and got it slapped out as he was being sacked. Luckily for the 49ers, Barry Sims was there to fall on the ball. However, a few plays later, he leaves the ball in one hand in the pocket as it is collapsing around him and gets it slapped out, again. I understand a QB will fumble from time to time, but you’d think he would protect it a little more after getting it slapped out JUST A FEW PLAYS EARLIER.
This was not meant to shoot you down or anything. I’m just trying to explain how I (and probably many others here) feel about JTO and why we feel that way. He shows potential, yes he does. At the same time, his lack of learning from his mistakes does nothing but make you feel that he may have a difficult time realizing that potential.
agreed
i’ve felt the main problems are qb play and lack of a pass rush. even if jto cut his turnovers in half and the D put a little more pressure on opposing qb’s theyd start winning games
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
thanks for the response...
this gives me a good idea as to how you all feel.
by Ninerfromacrossthepond on Oct 23, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm wondering...
if he’s concentrating on staring down the only receiver he’s going to that he forgets he’s holding a football. JTO did show promise of learning from mistakes after the first few games of the year. I hope he gets back in that train of thought.
"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh
by TripTheNinja on Oct 23, 2008 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
INTs vs. Fumbles.
If I’m not mistaken, the default technique that coaches tend to teach QBs who fumble a lot is to hold onto with two hands until you’re actually ready to throw the ball. O’Sullivan is not only holding it with just one hand all the time, he tends to hold it so far away from his body.
It’s not that difficult of an issue to fix, so I really don’t know why it’s taken him so long. It seems like he can sense pressure (most of the time) as he moves around the pocket fairly well. He’s just got to make tucking the ball away another requirement once he senses pressure, instead of just moving.
He holds on to the ball too long....
Well sometimes when he’s not fumbling. JTO is a backup, he never thought he would be the starter. He has proven that he is only good for 4-5 series and then its like he can’t function. He does a poor job at reading D and throws into the teeth of the opponent. We need a change now. Jed York said we have not been outplayed….which I agree, but at QB we need to think alittle more and make quicker, smarter decisions if we are going to win. He(JTO) makes our Martz O too damn predictable.
Predictability
While I agree that O’Sullivan needs to get the ball out quicker, I don’t see how that lends to being predictable.
If this offense is becoming predictable, it is because of Martz’ playcalling, not the QB play.
3rd down
Martz has seemingly always wanted to blast a huge play on 1st and 2nd down. JT has been in too many 3rd down sit that I don’t feel Martz has too many plays for. He showed that last year.
Exactly.
That is why many around here (myself included) are glad Martz wasn’t named the head coach. Everyone is still hopeful he can make this offense fly, but he also needs to incorporate Gore, Robinson, Walker, and Davis into a shorter game, so they can stay away from those third and longs.

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