Over/Under on "The Return of Norv?"
by StepUp on Oct 27, 2008 3:24 PM PDT
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PrintHow do we like Martz so far? Offensive genius? Uh, yeah. Nolan's guy and in love with JTO? Definitely. How'd that fair QB competition in July work out?
Think Norv might be available come January '09?
Who's offense would you rather see - Norv or Martz? Who prepared their QB better - Norv with Alex or Martz with JTO? Who's more likely to leave for another head coaching gig? Martz.
It's painfully clear Martz' scheme of holding the ball until the bitter end of your QB's life, and to ignore The Gore for check-offs and dump-offs, has got to end. I love an exciting 20-30 yard pass as much as the next guy, but where's the personnel to win with that scheme? Where's Orlando Pace in his prime? Isaac Bruce 10-years younger? We have JTO and Shaun Hill. The O-line can't protect for a 7-step drop, yet, that's what the QB is constantly asked to do.
The now-benched QB puckers at the worst times and can't hold onto the ball. The new starting QB would rather dink and dunk, but at least doesn't turn the ball over. Can Alex Smith become anything other than another Joey Harrington or David Carr? Inspiring?
We are not winning with JTO. We might have Steve DeBerg-like success with Shaun Hill (good enough to win a few games, raise your hopes up a bit, while waiting for Joe), but the future at QB doesn't appear to be wearing the Crimson and Gold.
Is it time to bring back The Norv? Yes. Can Norv revive Alex? Love to see it, but...
I think some of the answers may be coming with the arrival of Singletary's fire and the youthful-York. "Just keep watching."
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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You make it sound like Norv Turner was run out of San Francisco.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Correction, “you make it sound like Norv Turner was ran out of town.”
That’s how we roll up in here.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude… Dude…
Hey, speaking of Dude, how weird was it seeing Jeff Bridges as the bad guy in Iron Man? Just watched it for the first time last night, and it was strange seeing someone like El Duderino (if you’re not into the whole brevity thing) working with terrorists and blowing things up.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
lulz
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
The Bolt’s job will be the last HC job for Norv for some time. I think he’ll finally be seen for what he is – a very good O-Coordinator but not a HC. Good long term for the Niners should he return. At least Martz can escape with the excuse of “Look at all the turmoil I had to deal with. It wasn’t my fault.”
I think
a couple games with Hill at the helm will test Martz a bit. They went with his guy JTO to start the season (a decision I support) – but at some point you have to wonder whether it’s the QB or the system. Hill has now had preseason plus 8 games to LEARN the system, so there is no need for Martz to dumb it down…. it’s sink or swim time. Furthermore, if Martz really still wants JTO back, he will give Hill a scheme that is not suited to him. So, if Hill fails… we go back to JTO, but learned nothing. But if Hill succeeds, then we learned:
a) JTO is terrible (i.e, it’s not all the scheme and the OL)
b) Hill is OK
c) Martz is not a total asshat.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
How many adjustments did Martz make to help JTO out? How’d those 4th-quarter drives end up after raking in big gains up until then? See many 3-step drops, draw plays, screens, etc. to slow the rush?
I’m gettiing the impression Martz is in love with his system at the expense of winning.
I agree
When Hill came in, they did exactly they should’ve been doing more with JTO — 3-step drops and screens, which reduces the time/degree the O-line has to block, and lessens the odds of a turnover. But they did it by necessity, because Hill doesn’t have the arm to do much more. Martz just refused to adjust until Singletary forced it on him.
Despite his shortcomings, Hill has played in 4 regular season games for the Niners, and has yet to play poorly. He’s also yet to play against a good defense in a competitive situation. Still, the Niners owe it to him and themselves to give him that shot. I just hope Martz is able/willing to adjust his play-calling to Hill’s strength consistently.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Oct 27, 2008 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Norv has proven he can be a HC. Why would he come back to be an OC?
I see the future, and it is Pablo
On the other hand, Dennis Erickson could have made the playoffs with that San Diego team.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2008 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Well then he’s under the impression that he is a proven head coach
I see the future, and it is Pablo
Unfortunately, that’s probably absolutely true.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ll take the under on 0%
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Martz/Norv
I like Norv’s offense better. there is less risk involved and the his offense goes more towards the streingths of the offense. i don’t think he will come back to the 9ers eventhough it’s be great. Martz is good as a coordinator and not a coach. as coordinator, he’ll make changes and adjust when told to by the HC. when he’s the coach he’s too stubborn and hard-headed.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
I think many people are missing the point with Martz and JTO.
I don’t think he is in love with JTO, as much as JTO was the only QB remotely familiar with Martz’ system, and he didn’t think much of Smith’s head and Hill’s arm. It’s kind of like picking a menu item at Burger King. The Angus or the Whopper. The angus might taste a little better, but either way your probably getting the shits. I still Martz a lot credit for bringing the offense along as far as it has. I will take a wait-and-see approach to see if there are any changes with a new HC, QB, and the bye week to make some (dare I say it) adjustments (dare, dare). And why does everyone think Martz is looking to find a HC job. I haven’t heard anything that he has a burning desire to leave. I agree with maveric_87 above, Martz needs a counterbalance to his all-in mentality. Despite his ego, nobody wants to be fired and I think Martz knows he needs to make it work here. If he doesn’t succeed here people will tend to believe that it was Warner’s ability not Martz’ ‘genius’ that made the greatest show work. How many organization would really want an OC that was fired by a bad Niners team and an even worse Lions team. I think Martz might actually do well under a guy like Sing. Vermiel was a cryer, but he was also a hard coach who ran a boot camp style of practice. I see the Lambs (sorry, old habits die hard) continued sucess under Martz somewhat like the Switzer Cowboys or the Seifert Niners. Like the coach said, “keep watching”.
i think...
…the niners’ OC next season will not be martz, and it won’t be norvell. it will be a west coast offense guy. mark my words. singletary is going to keep the head coach job, and he wants to play ball-control offense. my prediction is brian billick. i don’t buy the argument that billick wouldn’t take an OC job working for his former LB coach. norvell did the same exact thing taking the OC job under nolan. just to cover my ass here, i think the OC will be a BILLICK-TYPE guy IF singletary keeps the job.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Oct 27, 2008 7:30 PM PDT reply actions
Holding the ball
I know that it’s kind of stereotypical Martz for his QB to take deeper drops and accumulate sacks. However, you can’t blame Martz for JTO’s failures to check down. Martz has even said that he doesn’t like sacks and that the QB HAS to get rid of the ball. You can’t blame Martz for how O’Sullivan ALWAYS looks downfield, even in times of despair. Hill probably ran the same plays O’Sullivan did, except Hill is a LOT more open to checking down. A lot of the offense’s development is on Martz, but the QB’s failure to check down shouldn’t be.
You can’t blame Martz for all of JTO’s failure and then just praise Hill for his differences.
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