49ers All-Time Wide Receiver #2
EDITOR'S NOTE ELECTION DAY 8:05AM: Seeing as it's election day and things could come down to the wire, it seemed appropriate to throw out one last appeal for votes on our #2 Wide Receiver. As of this re-posting, Taylor leads TO by a mere 2 votes. I feel it's your civic duty to vote on this position! I had thoughts on an election-related post but thought of it too recently and ran out of time. So, vote for your #2 wide receiver, and of course, try and vote in real life.
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It's been quite some time since we voted on the Niners Nation All-Time Team. The last vote was August 20 for the #2 inside linebacker. Speaking of which, the winner of that was Gary Plummer. For those who have joined the site more recently, we started putting together a starting lineup of all-time 49ers, as voted on by all of us. On the front page of the site, the currently voted on roster is on the left side of the screen. Since we've got a bye this week, I thought now was a perfect time to start this back up.
Today, I thought we'd move on to our #2 all-time wide receiver. We all know who will be the #1 receiver and I wanted to start back up with something people could vote on. There are some very qualified nominees, and of course, one particularly controversial option. Some very deserving nominees (Freddie Solomon among others) were left off the ballot, but we really can't have everybody.
Terrell Owens (1996-2003): Oh TO, TO, TO. If we were just considering stats and natural ability, I personally think Terrell Owens would be the hands down #2 guy in 49ers history. He's #2 in franchise history in receptions, yards and touchdowns behind Jerry Rice and made one of the more well known catches in team history against the Packers in the playoffs. He had issues with drops, but unlike a guy like Randy Moss, he didn't take plays off and busted his ass. Of course, there is that other part of TO. That would be the fact that when he left he was despised by many 49ers fans, including yours truly. My hatred has tempered with time and it's gotten to the point where I can separate the talented WR from the troubled individual. I'm not saying you have to in making this vote because this is somewhat a popularity contest. Rather, consider whatever you like in making your vote.
Dwight Clark (1979-1987): Clark made probably the most famous Catch in 49ers history, and in fact it probably ranks pretty high in NFL history. Clark was drafted the same year as Joe Montana and was a key part of the resurgence of the 49ers. He stands 4th in team in history in receptions, 3rd in yards and 6th in touchdowns.
John Taylor (1987-1995): Taylor made arguably the second most famous catch in 49ers history, the game-winner against the Bengals in Super Bowl XXIII. Taylor currently stands 8th or better in franchise history in receptions, yards and touchdowns. And, of course, he holds the pre-eminent spot as second banana to Jerry Rice.
Billy Wilson (1951-1960): Wilson stands 6th in receptions, 5th in yards and 5th in touchdowns. Wilson was a 6-time Pro Bowler waaaaay back in the day and stands as the first great receiver in 49ers history. In fact, a look at comparable NFL receivers in the NFL opens the argument that Wilson should in fact be a Hall of Famer.
Gene Washington (1969-1977): Today's fans might recognize Gene Washington as the man who introduces draft choices after the first round, as Director of Football Operations for the NFL. Before entering the league office, Washington was a four-time Pro Bowler and three-time All Pro with the 49ers. He finished his time with the 49ers 7th in team history in receptions, 4th in yards and 3rd in touchdowns.
Comments
Great point about Owens
I think too many people focus on what he does off the field. He hasn’t ever been in trouble with the law. He has never had issues on field and when it comes down to it that’s all that matters when youre playing. He’s hands down the best number 2 guy to have next to Jerry.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 9:31 AM PDT
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No onfield issues...
I think his locker room issues had/have a sizeable influence on the onfield performance of his teams. His idiocy with the Niners and gay comments about Garcia seemed to change the fortunes of the team. He tore into the leader of the Eagles and left them with little success since their SB appearance. He’s right in the middle of tearing up the ‘Boys (couldn’t be happier about it) with his usual selfish ways.
If stats were the only measure, no doubt he’s #2. Hard to vote for such immature, selfish idiots, though.
by StepUp on
Oct 31, 2008 9:54 AM PDT
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dude...
has his off field issues ever effected his play? not once. theres a reason why hes number 2 all time in the NFL. hes unreal. did his actions with the eagles effect how he played? No. he took em to the super bowl. have they been back since? No. he’s that good
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 11:19 AM PDT
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TO talent...
was never, ever an issue. Could be the absolutely most gifted WR ever. BUT…the point is not about his play, it’s about how his idiocy effected the play of his team. Cause and effect. Their SB was during his more mature moments. What happened the following off-season was comical.
by StepUp on
Oct 31, 2008 11:49 AM PDT
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It was comical I agree
His idiocracy did not effect the way the team played. McNabb was hurt and so were a lot of the good players on the team following the super bowl year.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 12:05 PM PDT
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Theyear after the SB...
contract dispute, suspended, deactivated and released. Bad behavior = bad results for team.
by StepUp on
Oct 31, 2008 12:47 PM PDT
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Hmmm..
I know you guys voted a while ago on this but I’m surprised neither Ray Brown and Derrick Deese aren’t on the all-time list for O-line. Either one should be on there I’d think but it’s all good.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 9:34 AM PDT
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They may be pretty good..
… but Randy Cross and Guy McIntyre are better.
by sfgfan on
Oct 31, 2008 11:32 AM PDT
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What about Joe Perry?
Did he do well in voting for FB?
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 11:44 AM PDT
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Lost in a landslide to...
…. Tom Rathman.
by sfgfan on
Oct 31, 2008 12:13 PM PDT
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kinda surprising
i love both and my favorite number since i was a kid was 44. it works
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 1:16 PM PDT
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I don’t think Joe Perry was up for FB, because we had him in at the HB vote.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Oct 31, 2008 1:23 PM PDT
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ok
i was just curious
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 1:27 PM PDT
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But you think wrong!
by sfgfan on
Oct 31, 2008 1:52 PM PDT
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wow
youd think he’d beat out rathman
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
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Rathman and age.
Most of the people on the site weren’t even born (let alone be old enough) when Perry ran wild. Therefore, there’s a bit more of a sentimental attachment to Rathman.
Also, Rathman fit the role of what a fullback was (during his time) to a T. In all honesty, there may have been few that were better at doing his job than he was when he was in the red and gold.
by sfgfan on
Oct 31, 2008 1:58 PM PDT
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sall good
i like both
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 2:02 PM PDT
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Oh, sorry. I was thinking of Bizarro Niners Nation.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Oct 31, 2008 4:01 PM PDT
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I love TO, but it’s JT
TO was still raw and developing with his time as a 49er. He was great, but overall, his off the field stuff got to me. I can do this solely on his talent alone, but I don’t think that’s enough for me.
JT was the perfect compliment for Rice at the time. He had reliable hansd (which Owens still doesn’t) and he returned kicks, something that I feel the team really benefitted from
Formerly known as phutmasterflex
by PHUT! on
Oct 31, 2008 9:42 AM PDT
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I voted TO. Too much talent as a WR to ignore, plus he’s a great blocker which adds a little more value to the team.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on
Oct 31, 2008 10:41 AM PDT
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When in doubt...
I always refer back to Tecmo Super Bowl. So naturally, I have to go Taylor on this one.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on
Oct 31, 2008 11:02 AM PDT
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Taylor
nostalgia factored into this one the most. I don’t discount TO was a great performer, off-field issues aside, but Taylor was by far my favorite second banana ever. If I remember correctly he returned punts and/or kicks pretty good too.
Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal
by 49erLou on
Oct 31, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
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im down with that
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 1:16 PM PDT
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i went with clark...
….here’s my reasoning:
1) in re TO — when you construct an all-time team for a franchise, you can’t ignore how a player fit into the standards of the franchise. TO put up great stats for the 49ers (due to his strong work ethic) and had one HUUUUUUGE catch in the playoffs. other than that, he’s more known for the sideshow than how he contributed to extending the 49ers dynasty. fact is, his classless antics were a major reason that the dynasty died. TO embodied a lack of class and professionalism that’s antithetical to the 49er organization, and that kind of behavior led directly to the 49ers demise. posing on the dallas star? the sharpie? basically sabotaging his head coach and quarterback’s tenure on the team??? these are things that were totally out of bounds of the 49er way, and their consequences are still felt today. when in doubt, i think WWWD: what would walsh do? could you imagine bill walsh putting up with that garbage? not a chance. this stuff basically disqualifies TO from consideration in my book, even though he is no doubt the 2nd-most talented WR in 49er history.
2) in re JT — the dude was clutch, and a kick/punt returning beast. he also was the consummate professional, unlike TO. however, the offenses he played on were star-studded. his career overlapped montana, rice, young, jones, craig, and watters, so it was a frequent occurence that JT was the 3rd receiving option on a play. that’s certainly not his fault, but if he wasn’t even the #2 target on the team, how can he be the #2 target of all time? i mean, how would JT have done if he wasn’t on that talented of an offense? we’ll never know for sure, and because we don’t know, he can’t be all-time #2 in my mind.
3) in re clark — he’s got The Catch, he was Montana’s right-hand man in the 49er resurgence, he was a real pro, and he spent most of his career among offensive players that are no-names outside of 49er fan circles. that was what separated the early 80s teams from the late 80s teams. when you think of the 80s, most casual NFL fans can rapidly tick off players from the dynastic late 80s version, but are hard-pressed to name any early 80s 49ers outside of joe montana, roger craig, ronnie lott, and DWIGHT CLARK.
by Florida Danny on
Oct 31, 2008 1:47 PM PDT
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Re #2
If you’re saying Taylor, as a WR, wasn’t even the #2 target most of the time (because a RB like Craig/Watters or a TE took that role), who’s to say the #2 WR has to be the #2 target most of the time?
by sfgfan on
Oct 31, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
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i guess...
…my argument here is that, if we’re voting on the 2nd best WR in 49ers history, that WR should have been the #1 WR at the time, or at the very least, the clear #2 option at the time. this taylor was not. he was often the #3 option. owens was the 2nd best #1 WR, but he’s disqualified. the next best #1 WR was dwight clark, so he gets my vote.
now, if on the other hand we’re voting on the best #2 (complementary) WR, then taylor was obviously the best. i mean, he’d be going up against who, JJ Stokes? Tai Streets? Freddie Solomon?
i hope the distinction i’m making here makes sense.
by Florida Danny on
Oct 31, 2008 2:36 PM PDT
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#2
I see your distinction and it makes sense. Personally I vote on it as the 2nd best overall receiver in 49ers history but it’s never really been clarified for everybody. I think people can just vote as they see fit on it.
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by Fooch on
Oct 31, 2008 2:40 PM PDT
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it does make sense but...
Owens did play #2 to Jerry Rice for 4 years and did catch the game winner against the Packers as a number 2 guy. Taylor also made some of the biggest catches at the #2 position for example the game winner against the Bengals in the SB. I vote Owens but Taylor is my runner to up to him given all-time stats.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 2:41 PM PDT
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yeah, good point about TO as #2 to Rice...
…i guess that makes TO the 2nd-best WR, as wel as the best 2nd WR. regardless though, i just think he’s disqualified for consideration here. if he wasn’t disqualified for his contribution of the 49ers demise as a franchise, he’d be my vote for sure. so between taylor and clark, given my view that we’re voting for the 2nd-best WR rather than the best 2nd WR, clark beats taylor.
good points though.
by Florida Danny on
Oct 31, 2008 2:49 PM PDT
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how could he get disqualified?
it was eddie d that got them into cap trouble and walsh reccomended Donhue for GM. that screwed the 9ers
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 3:10 PM PDT
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My recollection...
was cap hell was a direct result of the already spend and win at all costs mindset in place when the cap was created. In other words, the hand was already dealt when the cap appeared. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Funny thing about Donahue – well-spoken, well-respected, seemed like a great choice. However, it seemed like he really didn’t care about the job when it came down to it. What a disappointment that was.
by StepUp on
Oct 31, 2008 3:18 PM PDT
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Eddie D
had til 2000 to get them out of cap hell and they never recovered. The Yorks inherited CRAP and didn’t do anything about it til hiring Nolan and dumping money into players. There were still pleanty of bad decisions but they are not in salary cap hell anymore and they are trying to find the right players at whatever cost.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
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very directly...
…he acted like an idiot, then warred with mooch for suspending him, then talked shit about his qb in public…the classiest organization in the league becomes known as "the team that revolves around that asshole TO…he made the 49ers all about him rather than about continuing the winning tradition…mooch was fired after 2002 for, among other reasons, his inability to tame TO…TO’s antics were the reason he got traded after 03…and big gay jeff was gone after 03 also. the niners have never been the same. now, of course, carmen policy putting the niners into salary cap hell, and donahue becoming the gm, played a big role. i just think that if TO’s lack of class was the story of the 02-03 49ers, and that was the beginnings of the heaping pile of shit we see today.
by Florida Danny on
Oct 31, 2008 4:21 PM PDT
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I'd take Taylor ahead of Clark
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 1:57 PM PDT
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can it be said...
that deion sanders should be on the all-time squad since he did get the defensive player of the year award the 1 year with the 9ers?
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 2:10 PM PDT
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Prime Time
Deion was including in the balloting for the #2 cornerback but not #1 cornerback. My reasoning (and it may or may not have been flawed) was that he was clearly great for the 49ers, but at the same time I thought a long career with the 49ers was of more value. In our #2 voting he came in second to Eric Wright. Jimmy Johnson was the #1 cornerback.
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by Fooch on
Oct 31, 2008 2:26 PM PDT
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value
thats what i was thinking when it came to him getting a position was time with the team
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 2:32 PM PDT
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figured thats why he didn't win
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 2:32 PM PDT
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was he in the voting?
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 2:13 PM PDT
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C'mon People
The only question you have to ask yourself is not which of these fine athletes had “stats” or “contributed” to the “team”, but who was the only one that danced on the star 50-yard line of a hated rival in their house?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
by LA49er on
Oct 31, 2008 3:01 PM PDT
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haha fosho!
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 3:11 PM PDT
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how bout we do a 3 reciever set?
lol Rice Taylor and Owens
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 3:12 PM PDT
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briefly considered
We actually went with 4 defensive linemen AND 4 linebackers, but that was more because I didn’t want to choose between a 3-4 and a 4-3. However, with wide receivers, I figure 2 is sufficient. Although Rice, Taylor and Owens would be quite an impressive trio.
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by Fooch on
Oct 31, 2008 3:25 PM PDT
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it's cool I was jokeing
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by maveric_87 on
Oct 31, 2008 3:32 PM PDT
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If John Taylor is the 49ers 2nd best WR of all time
Wow, outside of Rice, what a bunch of shitty WRs the Niners have had over the years. I don’t think Taylor ever topped 65 receptions in a season and only busted 1,000 yards twice. Plus this was with Rice constantly being double and outstanding QB play. Plain and simple the dude just wasn’t that good. Hell, even Ashley Lelie broke 1,000 yards recieving once so maybe Taylor was twice the recieve Lelie was but that still isn’t saying much.
by methodrampage on
Nov 3, 2008 9:29 AM PST
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Wrong side of the bed?
What did you expect of any receiver playing with Rice? Rice was the focus, and everyone else came after him. Taylor was All-Pro twice and a Super Bowl MVP. Player of 80’s list. Comparing him to Lelie? You’ve got to be kidding.
Did you notice Taylor’s yards per catch at 16.1? There were some decent RB’s and TE’s catching passes and scoring TD’s during Taylor’s time, too.
You act as if Taylor paled in comparison to Rice – well, everyone did/does. Ever watch Freddie Solomon? TO? Any other teams stand out with their incredible stable of WR’s over the years beyond the 9’ers?
by StepUp on
Nov 4, 2008 10:35 AM PST
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correction
taylor was not a super bowl mvp. he made the best play in the super bowl against the bengals. although it is assinine to compare taylor to lelie.
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by maveric_87 on
Nov 4, 2008 11:48 AM PST
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If Lelie...
… played opposite Rice and had other compliments like Craig and Jones, he’d probably put up some fairly decent numbers too, much like Taylor did.
by sfgfan on
Nov 4, 2008 2:04 PM PST
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Lelie was a number 1 pick bust. Taylor was not.
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by maveric_87 on
Nov 4, 2008 2:12 PM PST
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And like Grizzlie Adams, Jake Plummer had a beard.
That’s neither here nor there.
by methodrampage on
Nov 4, 2008 2:15 PM PST
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touche
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by maveric_87 on
Nov 4, 2008 2:46 PM PST
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There are plenty of teams whose #2 WR of all time would smoke Taylor.
Taylor is a 2 time Pro-Bowler (at least 1 of those was as a punt returner not a WR), not a 2 time All-Pro. Please get some facts straight. TO is 6 time Pro-Bowler and a 5 time All-Pro. Where’s the comparison? Taylor couldn’t shake a stick at what TO has did as a 49er. Taylor’s ball security was also pretty suspect.
But in all seriousness, if for whatever reason people want to discount TO, then Billy Wilson and Gene Washington are clearly better picks than Taylor. Hell R.C. Owens and Dave Parks are should probably be on this list before Taylor.
Honestly just about any WR could have matched Taylor’s production playing opposite of Rice with Montana and Young at QB.
by methodrampage on
Nov 4, 2008 12:57 PM PST
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Taylor vs. Rice.
I don’t think he was making that comparison at all. He was pointing out that in terms of being a receiver, there have been more talented and more productive 49ers in the past (i.e. guys like T.O. or Gene Washington).
People can argue about why they voted for Taylor all they want, but it primarily boils down to nostalgia more than anything.
by sfgfan on
Nov 4, 2008 2:03 PM PST
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+1
You are so much more eloquent than I.
by methodrampage on
Nov 4, 2008 2:11 PM PST
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Hah
It’s the reason why I didn’t vote for this position (or most others for that matter). I feel that my vote would have a lot more to do with what I SAW in the late 80s and early 90s than it would with what was actually “better” in terms of players across all generations of this team.
by sfgfan on
Nov 4, 2008 2:29 PM PST
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Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal
by 49erLou on
Nov 7, 2008 8:45 PM PST
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