Kerry Collins. Yeah, him.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 6, 2008 11:03 AM PDT Comment 31 comments

Many of us are already thinking ahead to the future of this team's QB situation. JTO is a nice, exciting stopgap, but I think we would be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks he is a long-term solution.

Reading Peter King's MMQB, it sounds like Kerry Collins is sober, in better shape (both mind and body), and has no interest in being a backup QB. He hits free agency this year, and I'd like to discuss the possibility of him being a 49er next year. I'm certainly not advocating a large contract. I'm thinking a 2-year deal with a reasonable amount of money considering his age and limitations.

This, of course, is only part one of my solution. The #1 priority of this team would have to be drafting a QB that could potentially be a long-term solution. Don't ask me who this would be, as I don't pay enough attention to college football to say who that QB would be. However, the development of this QB would be much different than the Alex Smith Debacle.

What Collins would provide is a steady performance each week. From what I've seen, he's pretty accurate (career 55.5%), and while his TD/INT ratio seems to be close to 1.0 every year, I think he could be a very good mentor to the new draftee. He doesn't get rattled easily, has a good arm, and I think his style of play would fit the Martz offense pretty well.

Another option, of course, would be to just let JTO be the "mentor/stopgap" for the new QB for a couple years. I wouldn't be 100% opposed to this, however I don't know if I necessarily want JTO instilling his tendencies on a new QB. Plus, he's not that experienced anyway.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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What's the point?

Your specific criticisms of JTO is that he’s a stopgap, and nobody thinks he’s a long-term solution. And yet we’re talking about Collins for 2 years until someone better is available. Sounds like a short-term stopgap to me.

I agree with you, JTO probably ain’t no long-term thang. But why pay more for Collins when you’re probably looking at only a slight improvement? I think the organization shares our view of JTO being a short-term solution. They have to, right? Right?

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Oct 6, 2008 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Collins would provide better insight to the position

in regards to mentoring. I also do think he’s a better QB than JTO, albeit not a HUGE improvement. My thinking was that if the 49ers go the route of drafting a new “QB of the future”, then a veteran QB that can still be productive for a couple years might be a good investment.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 6, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm biased against Collins pretty strongly

The short version is that he’s an old, awful QB.

55.5% career is NOT pretty accurate. That’s fairly inaccurate by the standards of at least the last 15 years.

The long version goes back to two expansion franchises, one in Jacksonville and one in Carolina and Kerry Collins being a young, awful QB. I’ll try to remember to follow up after work.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 6, 2008 12:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

accuracy

Hell, Alex Smith’s career completion percent is 54.4.

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by Fooch on Oct 6, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has it really come to this?

The Examined Life
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Oct 6, 2008 1:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Titans

Yes the Titans are 5-0, so it’s easy to hop on the Collins bandwagon. However, it’s been the defense and the running game that have are responsible for their start. I realize Collins is a veteran, but compare the stats:

Collins
64 for 115 (55.7%) for 740 yards (6.44 YPA), 3 TD, 3 INT, 73.1 QB rating

JTO
82 for 140 (58.6%) for 1,092 yards (7.80 YPA), 7 TD, 6 INT, 82.2 QB rating

Throw in some decent scrambling abilities for JTO, as well as a struggling 49ers offensive line. JTO may not be a long term answer, but remember also that Collins is 35 and probably only going to get worse.

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by Fooch on Oct 6, 2008 1:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

JTO is Steve Deberg Reincarnated

OK, showing my age with this post, but do any of you remember the quarterback Joe Montana replaced. It was Steve Deberg and it was 3 years of hell 1978-1980. The hell part was the propensity to throw a costly interception – one that either takes potential points off the board for the niners or leads to points by the other team. JTO is glaringly similar. The two end-zone interceptions last week were just bad throws – a potential 14 points lost. That 3rd quarter pick he threw yesterday was more so a horrible decision, because that receiver was blanketed regardless of the fact that Rodney Harrison made the pick. New England then drove 24 measly yards in two and half minutes and put up 7 points. That killed us, and that one is all on JTO.

by SoquelFan on Oct 6, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was born in 1985, and even I remember Steve DeBerg.

He played for the Falcons.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 6, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good call

He did finish up with Atlanta. http://www.nfl.com/players/stevedeberg/careerstats?id=DEB207645

by SoquelFan on Oct 6, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mentor?

We could have just kept Trent Dilfer!

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 6, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So from the negative reactions...

I take it you guys would prefer keeping JTO? I’m curious what you would do, whether it be trading for a proven QB or drafting a QB and sit him on the bench with a couple more years of JTO?

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 6, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's a little too soon to decide.

In all honesty, it’ll depend on where the coaching situation goes

If Martz isn’t around after this season, then I’d go with trying to acquire a decent veteran to basically fill the role that O’Sullivan is playing (that is, a short-term stop gap unless he proves to be otherwise).

If Martz stays on board as Nolan’s offensive coordinator, then I’d stick with O’Sullivan as a stop-gap and not PRESS the issue of finding a QB for the future. If one falls into the team’s lap in the draft, take him, but DO NOT reach for a QB. Similarly, if a free agent comes along that looks decent at a decent price, take a flier on him to compete (again) with O’Sullivan. If a QB becomes available in a trade, by all means, show some interest but DO NOT overpay for him. I think that is the reason why you have a stop-gap right? So that you don’t have to make a stupid mistake by pressing too hard to fill that need?

If Martz stays on board as a head coach (i.e. Nolan’s replacement), then I think the O’Sullivan stays and the 49ers take a QB in the draft to groom into the starter. Martz doesn’t like to use high draft picks on QBs, so this would mean that they’d be looking at a 2nd or maybe a 3rd round pick (at the highest) for a QB to eventually replace O’Sullivan.

I guess this is my long way of saying, “it depends.” I think whether or not Martz stays is going to be the biggest determining factor in who will be a QB and what the 49ers will do with the depth there.

by sfgfan on Oct 6, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dependently agree with this

Seriously, the situation is going to boil down to what happens with Mike Martz next year. If he’s gone, let go of JTO as well. If Martz stays, JTO can stay. I do agree that the Niners should look to draft a QB. My personal opinion is, look for a QB in the middle rounds of the draft, somewhere from round 3 to round 5. Definitely don’t waste a first round pick on a quarterback, and look to draft for need in the second round.

But ultimately, the coaching staff needs to be sorted out for next season before the quarterback situation can really be sorted out. And no, I’m not high on O’Sullivan as anything more than a Mike Martz QB. He’s perfect for the scheme, but I suspect he’ll get exposed out of it, in much the same way Marc Bulger seems to have been exposed.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 6, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bulger is actually a great QB – he’s “exposed” because he plays behind a semi-permeable offensive line.

by Rishi on Oct 7, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we don’t resign Alex Smith, draft a new QB and put him under mentorship for a while.

Or pick up Matt Leinart.

by Rishi on Oct 6, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Youre nuts

Kerry Collins?!
How bout axing the coaches and drafting a new QB. They have talent on this team and JTO isn’t the problem yet. It’s all on the COACHING!!!

Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.

by maveric_87 on Oct 6, 2008 3:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The discussion isn’t really about the problems the team has right now. It is in that everyone knows JTO isn’t going to be the QB for the long-run, and that needs to be planned for. However, I’m merely bringing up an alternative for what to do when the JTO experiment is over. Personally, I think this ought to happen in the upcoming offseason, but Martz & Co. may have other ideas.

I actually did recommend that they draft a QB (if you read the entire post, you would notice that). The question, in my mind, is one of three options:

1) keep JTO in hopes he’ll be your long-term QB
2) trade for a good QB
3) draft a QB, and keep either JTO or sign veteran FA for time being

I think (1) is foolish, as he is just not talented enough and makes too many mistakes to lead this team to a Super Bowl. (2) is a possibility, but that is really just silly “Cain for Fielder” speculation (the McCoven will understand this). (3) is the subject I breached, and I think Collins would be a reasonable mentor/stopgap. Yeah, JTO could probably do the same thing for cheap, but I guess it would really come down to who you think could run Martz’s offense better, and who you’d rather have instilling knowledge into your young QB.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 6, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would be willing to trade a first rounder for Brady Quinn. Thoughts?

by ro128487 on Oct 6, 2008 6:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Nah.

Aside from the fact that I just don’t like him, I wouldn’t underestimate just how much it will take to get Quinn from the Browns. They have to be coming to the very real conclusion that Derek Anderson is probably not a realistic option as a long term solution.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 6, 2008 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree

I think the Browns will make the move to Quinn very soon.

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by Fooch on Oct 6, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I made this suggestion before the season started

and still approve of it. However, Anderson is all but done in Cleveland. They’re real happy right now that they held on to him.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 7, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matt Leinart

I’m serious.

by Rishi on Oct 7, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Warner

Warner’s considering retirement after this year following the Boldin injury. I’d imagine the Cardinals want to hang onto Leinart.

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by Fooch on Oct 7, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he was considering immediate retirement upon the Boldin injury, but he now wants to stay. He could chill in Arizona for another year or two.

The Cards don’t seem to like Leinart. I think he has a lot of potential – he is perhaps one of the greatest college QBs in history and, unlike other bearers of that moniker, Leinart played in a pro-style system.

With the right coaching and mentorship, he could emerge as our QB of the future.

The question is – can we steal him? It’s entirely possible – it’s the Cardinals. As soon as Warner says he wants to stay for a few more years, make an offer – something like second round that possibly becomes a first rounder upon good performance.

by Rishi on Oct 7, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Warner

I think that if the Cards decide to go with Leinart and Warner decides to walk and find someone else that would take him, Mike Martz would love to have him for a year or two. Who better for O’Sullivan to learn from than the guy who made Martz famous?

Of course, this is all dependent on whether or not Martz stays in San Francisco.

by sfgfan on Oct 7, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We really shouldn’t count on building the team around the prospect of Martz being there.

Head coaches stay on; good coordinators don’t. Martz isn’t just an OC – he’s a system coordinator. Without him, the system most likely falls apart. If our team is successful, he takes off for a head coaching job. If it isn’t, he gets fired and we start over from ground zero.

Either way, no to long-term planning around Martz.

by Rishi on Oct 7, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's the thing..

… the possibility of Martz becoming the head coach of the 49ers is a fairly real possibility. If the 49ers make the playoffs at all this year (or even sniff it), the front office will have to decide which is more important to the team moving forward: Nolan or Martz. It’s a very fair question and I don’t think the answer is as simple as many in the anti-Nolan camp seem to make it.

by sfgfan on Oct 7, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is there historical prescedence for this?

If the team gets more successful – let’s say they make the playoffs next year. You’re telling me Nolan gets fired and Martz gets promoted?

by Rishi on Oct 7, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nolan...

… doesn’t have to be fired next year. His contract is up.

If he’s fired, he will be fired this offseason. I can’t think of a precedence, but just because there isn’t one, it does not mean it cannot happen.

If Nolan is here at all next year, it’ll be because he got an extension, as the 49ers have never allowed a head coach to enter the final season of his contract. That’s where the conundrum comes into play: give Nolan an extension or let Martz walk.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the front office would only face that scenario of Martz threatens to walk for a head coaching job elsewhere. They couldn’t stop Turner because no one in their right mind would have given Turner a head coaching gig except his long-time friend. They CAN stop Martz now and would have enough reason to justify firing Nolan (even if there are still plenty of people who support him, myself included).

by sfgfan on Oct 7, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

a first round pick should be someone drafted who can have an immediate impact on the team. If we draft high again, like in the top 10, then trading that pick for Quinn would be an incredibly bad move.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 7, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs