What the videotape tells us about Shaun Hill
In spite of the rather crushing loss, several positives came out of the game. These included the play of Jason Hill, the adjustments on offense behind Mike Singletary and of course some very solid special teams work. One guy who was the personification of this game (as far as the good, the bad and the ugly) was 49ers QB Shaun Hill. He had spectacular moments and he had some rather hideous moments. To get a better read on his performance I decided to go back and view the 49ers offensive possessions, and specifically when Hill was involved in the play (beyond just handing the ball off to Frank Gore).
I went through every single play, but I decided not to chart them all here. Rather I wanted to focus on specific aspects of Hill's game and how they relate to the offense going forward. Given the issue of turnovers with JTO and some of the turnovers and near-turnovers last night, I figure that's the first thing to look at. Shaun Hill finished the game with 2 interception, 1 fumble and three interceptions either dropped or called back, giving us 6 turnovers or near turnovers. For the Hill-haters that is certainly not a good string of numbers. So I went through and broke down each of the six plays.
1. 1st and 10 on first drive of second half - Throws in front of Isaac Bruce, Rodgers-Cromartie made dive to catch it but lost it when he hit the ground
2. 1st and 10 with 1:33 left in 3rd quarter - Overthrows Jason Hill and Antrel Rolle makes the easy pick, running it back for a TD. However, it's all nullified by defensive offsides on Adrian Wilson.
- One thing to keep in mind on this play: the INT occurred in part b/c Wilson (who was offsides) came down on Shaun Hill's right leg as he was throwing, which appeared to alter the trajectory of the ball - he might not have been in a position to do that if he wasn't offsides. Maybe it had nothing to do with it, maybe it did. Just something to keep in mind.
3. 1st and 10 with 44 seconds left in 3rd quarter - Hill fumbles, recovered by AZ. Slow motion replay shows the center made no mistake on the snap and Hill was the one who bobbled the ball initially. As Hill was trying to recover his handle on the ball, the pulling guard (Baas) ran into him, knocking the ball away.
4. 3rd and 4 with 6:11 left in the 4th quarter - Adrian Wilson intercepted Hill but it was a clear-cut defensive offsides by Dockett. Hill made a quick throw after seeing the jump offsides.
5. 3rd and 7 with 5:18 left in 4th quarter - Karlos Dansby picked off Hill pass that looked clearly underthrown to Jason Hill. Jaws said it was a very difficult play but it looked like he just needed a little more loft on the ball to drop it in behind Dansby to Hill. I know people complain about Hill's lack of arm strength, but given the touchdown to Morgan, Hill definitely could've made this pass if he had judged the distance better.
6. 3rd and 3 with 2:34 left in 4th quarter - Hill drops back with plenty of time. The right defensive end closed in on him, so he stepped forward and to the right and throws the under-handed shovel pass, which Adrian Wilson dives to intercept. In the press conference today, Mike Martz said that was not Hill's fault actually.
Although there was the one fumble, it was not a JTO style fumble where he dances around in the pocket and doesn't feel the pressure. In fact, earlier in the second quarter, on a 3rd and 9 play, pressure came on his backside and either he felt it coming or noticed it out of the corner of his eye, but he held onto the ball with 2 hands and stepped out of the way of the path of the defensive lineman. It was exactly the type of play that would've turned into a JTO fumble.
So there are some excusable errors and some inexcusable errors. However, there were also some positives. Hill was in rhythm with Jason Hill all night long, hitting him on a variety of routes, including a corner route, a couple crossing rights and a couple out routes. Speaking of the crossing routes, Shaun Hill appears to really excel with those types of passes. It seemed like most of his completions were on little drag routes across the middle of the field that allows for a lot of receiver YAC. Someone made a suggestion of going more straight-up West Coast offense in the future and I think Hill could be a solid QB in that kind of offense.
Although there is concern about Hill's deep touch, he seemed to make most of the necessary throws Monday night. His two biggest underthrows were actually necessary. He underthrew Vernon Davis at the end of the first half, which allowed Davis to jump up over two safeties to make his touchdown catch. A few plays before that, Hill underthrew Isaac Bruce in the end zone, but given the coverage it was actually necessary if he was going to catch it. And there should've been defensive pass interference on that play anyways.
So what do we know about Hill after MNF? Well, he's certainly a bad ass for getting 4 extra yards after losing his helmet. That's got to be a given. Throwing out the fact that this is just one game (and he's only started 3 now), I think he's the kind of guy who could run things this year and the next two while the 49ers draft and develop another young QB starting in 2009. Hill is signed through 2010, so it seems like an almost perfect situation. Draft a guy like Graham Harrell (or whomever...aside from Tebow!) and let him sit, learn the offense and learn what it takes to be an NFL QB. The Titans did that with Air McNair (man that was a long time ago), the Packers did that with Aaron Rodgers. Why not do it in SF? Yes the Packers had Brett Favre leading the way, but the Titans (Oilers at the time) had Chris Chandler, who gives off that Shaun Hill vibe to me (or maybe it's the other way around).
I am often the first person to throw out the small sample size argument, so this is more of a gut feeling. The good news, though, is that the 49ers can now afford to use the rest of the season to see what Shaun Hill can do. The argument last year was that he faced a TB squad that was resting their starters and Cincy was just as awful as us. This season, Hill could face as many as 5 teams (Dallas, Buffalo, Jets, Miami and Washington) in the thick of playoff races, desperately needing wins. I have to say that gives me reason to be happy with a tough schedule the rest of the way. I think we'll really be able to make a determination on whether Shaun Hill fits in the 49ers plans for the next couple of years.
______________________
Oh and for mikev (and others wanting to know), linebacker Clark Haggans (#53) clearly rips off Robinson's helmet by the facemask. When Robinson first runs into the pile, Haggans has him by the helmet, but above the face mask. As they push him back, Haggans hand slips down across the face mask, and then his fingers go into the face and he pulls. The only argument is that the play was over but Robinson hadn't been brought completely to the ground yet. Fitting end for the referees.
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Comments
Hill's performance
I thought Hill played pretty well, except for the egregious flip-interception intended for Gore. There were a couple of times when Hill went back and pressure came, a defender got an arm on him and I’m thinking, oh no, here comes a fumble-sack—but instead, he came out of it and either threw it away, smartly or put the ball on target to a short receiver. It goes to show how much I had gotten used to JTO’s frustrating tendency to lose the ball on those plays.
One of the plays you missed, Fooch, is an overthrow to Vernon Davis on a corner route in the end zone. There was lots of air under it, and I thought if VD were a wideout or even a natural pass catcher like Delanie Walker he would’ve laid out to get it, but he didn’t. I guess that goes on Hill, ultimately, though, because VD was open.
by grantmp on Nov 12, 2008 5:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I liked the way that Hill ran the game
The explanation for the shovel pass interception was that Hill threw it where Gore should have been going but that he ran an incorrect pattern in that situation, so, according to Maiocco, that interception was on Gore even though it looked terrible on Hill’s part.
Considering the clusterf_ck that the last forty seconds were, I’m guessing that Martz may not be the offensive coordinator next year. He should have just had Hill spike it, then send in their “Pink Package”, but not substitute then. Or at forty seconds, run a safe fade on first down, which had the possibility of being successful but if not would have been as good as a spike if it fell incomplete.
And Paraag or whoever was supposed to be in the booth spotting the yard line, will be gone, at least from the booth.
It’s true that there was confusion and panic in the final seconds, but the brightest spot was how cool S. Hill handled things considering how badly the coaching handled things.
By the way, after the game Singletary took the blame for Martz’s screwup, so praise to him for being the leader he is.
+
Now here’s a thought from my alternate reality:
Need a young quarterback to sit and learn while Hill handles the duties over the next couple of years? How about Alex Smith? If his shoulder is healthy next year, you’ve got a smart kid with a decent arm (if it’s back to normal) who can sit and learn. I know it sounds crazy, and there are a lot of emotions with the fans when it comes to Smith, but he really might not be a bad backup. They can probably cut him and resign him for cheap (based on his lack of productivity so far). Smith seems to want to stick around in SF. He’s got plenty of money, so if he’s willing to come back here it’s because of his love of the game.
And here’s another crazy thought:
Maybe O’Sullivan wouldn’t be bad as a backup. Keep him around and have him study hard on his ball security and field awareness and he could be serviceable next year. You can’t complain about his arm.
O’Sullivan has the physical tools to be a good quarterback. His ability to read defenses and hold onto the ball can improve. Similarly, I think that a lot of Smith’s problems (prior to his shoulder separation) had to do with reacting and releasing the ball fast enough. I think that both Smith’s and O’Sullivan’s deficits are correctable. If I were the Niners I’d sign both of them and get Tollner or another quarterback coach to work with them full-time on improving their downsides.
In short, as badly as things have looked, it’s possible that the Niners have enough quarterbacking talent on the roster. What they need is better coaching and better lineplay.
If the Niners are near the top of the draft I’d want them to look for a really big and fast defensive lineman who likes to grab and knock down quarterbacks. The Niners need linemen on both sides of the ball.
Oh, on another thought: As much as I like Kentwan Balmer’s skills as a return man and there’s nothing more exciting than watching a three hundred-pound man snag a kickoff and sprint three yards downfield, I’d rather see him logging lots of minutes on the D-line. He’s either going to be good or he isn’t. The team is 2-7, the future is now.
by Bob On The Coast on Nov 12, 2008 8:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
If the Niners are near the top of the draft I’d want them to look for a really big and fast defensive lineman who likes to grab and knock down quarterbacks. The Niners need linemen on both sides of the ball.
100%, completely agree. No QB seems to be first-round pick material.
I’m definitely one of the bigger Alex Smith-haters around here, but I wouldn’t balk at him coming back at a reduced price, and then have a REAL quarterback competition in the offseason. At this point, I would hope Alex would have a bunch of incentive to work hard and better his reputation. I like what I see from Hill (although I think he’d benefit from a more West Coast style offense where he’s making quicker decisions and not making 7-step drops), and I wouldn’t mind him either. I also think O’Sullivan would be a very good backup QB.
However, they do need to take a QB with one of their first few picks, I think. Gets the scouts working to see who would fit an NFL offense best, and let him sit on the bench for a few years.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 12, 2008 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, after the game Singletary took the blame for Martz’s screwup, so praise to him for being the leader he is.
Doesn’t it seem like it could be Sing’s fault in the first place? Rookie coach, tries to override his OC. If the HC and OC miscommunicate like that, it’s the leader’s fault, really.
In any case – it’s been a while since we had a meaningful 2 minute (1 minute!) drill anyway.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Nov 12, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line is that it's Singletary's job to manage the game.
The OC answers to him not the other way around. The fact of the matter is the Niners have a HC that’s learning on the job and you’re going to take some lumps in the process. As long as he keeps improving and keeps getting his guys to play with the intesity that they played with on Monday he should be a fine HC.
by methodrampage on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool, thanks for the confirmation.
I’ve been scouring the intertoobs for a replay of the helicopter-cam video, and haven’t found it. It’s a fairly obvious facemask.
by mikev on Nov 12, 2008 10:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
For my money...
It all comes down to the correctable, and I don’t think Shaun Hill made mistakes that were egregiously outside the margin of error you’d expect from a starting QB that hasn’t been for the first 8 games of the season. Sure, this guy is going to be the starter from here on out, but if I was a stats guy I’d compare his stats to similar starts by Leftwich, Bollinger, and even Sexy Rexy. I think you’ll find that as these guys improved after their second games (with far more offesnive weapons at their disposal), so will Shaun Hill and if we had any of the following, we’d be singing this guy’s praises:
A) Refs get any number of calls right (Defensive PI, facemask, etc etc etc),
B) Shaun Hill’s shovel pass hits the ground or goes down with him,
C) VD gets a muscle spasm and outstretches his arms in the end zone,
D) Frank Gore finds just little more traction and pushes himself six inches further for the gamewinner.
E) Niners start on the 1 instead of the 2 1/2, MR makes an ugly but effective TD
Play the same game 10 times, and I say the Niners win it 6 or 7 times. There’s a lot of good, and while JTO’s (And Nolan’s, for that matter) shortcomings were correctable, they became less so after every game where they were not only uncorrected, but it appeared as though no one even acknowledged the problems. Knowing there is a problem is halfway to fixing it, and I feel 110% more confident about the next few games knowing Coach Sing is at the helm and Shaun Hill’s got the ball than I have in the last three years.
And can I please give a huge shout out to our O-line? I mean, sure they were prone to overloading up the middle but damn did they give Shaun Hill time and Frank Gore holes.
That being said…
THE NINERS ARE BACK BABY!
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
by LA49er on Nov 12, 2008 10:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Here's something interesting...
From Fox Sports, quoting Mike Pereira, the NFL’s VP of Officiating: "Hill realized he could not simply spike the ball anyway. Pereira said that had Hill done that, the 49ers would have incurred a 10-second clock runoff in addition to the five-yard penalty because there was less than a minute left.
So, is there a rule that says you can’t spike a ball with less than 1 minute in the game?
Anyone?
by StepUp on Nov 12, 2008 11:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
you can spike within a minute
there were flags thrown on the spike because bajema wasnt in position. it would have been a false start on him. that was right when they stopped the play for review. so if they didnt review it the flags would have gone out on bajema for being a moron and the game would have been over.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Nov 12, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But Hill still should have been able to spike the ball, right?
I mean Gore get “tackled” on 2nd down. They line up to spike the ball on third down but before the ball is snapped (and before Bajema can be called for a penalty) the play is reviewed. They re-spot the ball with 4 seconds and it’s 3rd and goal. There shouldn’t have been anything preventing Hill from spiking the ball. Unless I’m missing something. I think this cluster f*** basically boils down to an inexperienced QB and HC being caught up in the moment and not knowing what to do.
by methodrampage on Nov 12, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.
I see what you’re talking about now. Yeah, an experienced QB may have been able to take it more into his own hands and spike the ball to force another play-call from the 2 1/2 with maybe 1 second to go.
by sfgfan on Nov 12, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s actually what I thought they were doing. I was shocked when they actually ran a play. Why do that in a rush, when you can take your time and have everybody calm and ready?
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 12, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Michael Robinson were QB...
… maybe he would have done that. I’m curious if Hill understood that the play called would almost NEVER yield more than one yard in that kind of a situation. Robinson knew the call was a bit off but had to run it because it was run anyway.
by sfgfan on Nov 12, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is not an endorsement...
… for Robinson for QB, just to be clear.
by sfgfan on Nov 12, 2008 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
… that Pereira was referring to the possible illegal formation issues. The 49ers were in such disarray that they had people lined up all over the place. If the officials didn’t stop the game there, those flags that came out were probably for illegal formation.
by sfgfan on Nov 12, 2008 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they wistled as the ball was snapped and some refs did throw flags
if hill wouldve got the spike off they wouldve lost the game anyways due to a 10 second runoff. i know singletary is the hc but i put more blame on martz for trying to make a personnel change after the big jason hill catch that waisted 20+ seconds off the clock due to massive snafu. the whole thing was fubar from the refs to the coaching.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Nov 12, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I get that they whistled as the ball was being snapped
But you can’t review a play after the ball been snapped so in essence they stopped the play before the ball was snapped and before it could have been a penalty. It doesn’t matter if there would have been a penalty that would have incurred a 10 second runoff without the booth challenge and subsequent reveiw because their was a review. So anything that happened between Gore being “tackled” and the stoppage in play for the review shouldn’t have any bearing on what the Niners could or couldn’t have done with the ball on 3rd down with 4 seconds left.
by methodrampage on Nov 12, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
if you look at the interviews it appears that martz and sing thought they were on the 1. so they had a plan for running it in. if they wouldve seen that they had been further away they wouldnt have had enough time to audible for a spike because the clock started running again w the 4 seconds on the board. the whole thing was bullcrap. bottom line, get heads out of asses and keep from waisting 23 seconds w a stupid personnel change and just spike it! then make your subs. so stupid!
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Nov 12, 2008 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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