Discussion on Paraag Marathe
So it seems that, this season, Marathe has become a favourite whipping boy for Niners fans. There has been a lot of discussion around and even here on NN on Marathe.
I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on Marathe and what his role should be in the team. Obviously, none of us can change anything and this is all up to the Yorks. Still, it's worthwhile.
Marathe's role is in statistical analysis. Unfortunately, football is not the statistical game that baseball is, so stats can only do so much. Still, that's what we do when we discuss drafting a new QB here. He also seems to have a role in choosing when to challenge based on probability.
Anyway, thoughts?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Maiocco on Marathe
A couple days ago Maiocco had a post about the unfair criticism of Marathe.
It’s time for everybody to lay off Marathe, who is also the club’s chief contract negotiator. It is completely unfair and misguided to single him out. He is only one of seven individuals in the 49ers’ coaches’ booth, and the head coach has the final say on everything . . .
There is no question in my mind Marathe knows the NFL rulebook better than anyone in the organization . . .
If Marathe knows the rulebook better than anyone, he should be in the team’s coaches’ booth to assist the head coach in making decisions. That makes a lot of sense – but only if the head coach wants him in the booth. Nolan wanted him up there, and so does Mike Singletary.
MM makes interesting points and if Marathe does know the rule book backwards and forwards it certainly does make sense to have him up there with others.
MM’s only criticism was that:
But the only – ONLY – problem I would have with Marathe in the booth is if he were entrusted to make game-impacting decisions under extreme pressure. That’s an area best left to the coaches who are out on the practice field every day and whose livelihoods depend on making split-second decisions.
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by Fooch on
Nov 17, 2008 4:19 PM PST
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My opinion on Paraag Marathe isn’t without bias. And that bias is the one that makes me disagree with Ralph Barbieri. I feel like Marathe really gets blamed for a lot of crap that doesn’t lie with him. He’s never thrown a single challenge flag. He’s not directly responsible for almost any of the stuff he seems to get blamed for, and there’s no strong evidence I’ve seen to suggest that he’s indirectly responsible for as much of it as we might like to think.
But on the other hand, I don’t really understand what purpose he does serve outside of contracts (where I’m fine with him), so I don’t know why he does serve a purpose outside of contracts. I can’t support him as a booth person because I have nothing to base any support on, but I’m fairly slow to jump on his back because I don’t think very much of the onus falls on him either.
So I guess I’m pretty indifferent once I get past my burning desire to take the opposite end of the spectrum of Barbieri.
And Amici’s sucks. Deep Dish Forever!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 17, 2008 7:29 PM PST
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Amici's
Is really good. What do you have against non-deep dish pizza? I’m a huge fan of deep dish – my parents lived in Chicago for a while and I recently lived there for a good three months.
But there’s something to be said for the thin crust pizza that Amici’s offers. I can’t have deep dish on a night out due to its narcoleptic effects, but Amici’s is perfect pre-gaming food (or even a casual date spot since it offers you a chance to roam down towards Embarcadero, AT&T Park, my apartment, etc)
by Rishi on
Nov 18, 2008 12:56 PM PST
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It’s really just a personal preference. My heart likes deep dish so much more that when I’m eating thin crust all I’m doing is wondering why I’m not eating deep dish. New York Style pizza is good and all, but as far as I’m concerned that’s mostly just based on the merits that it is pizza, and pizza is good. When I eat thin crust pizza, even good thin crust pizza, it kind of feels like a flimsy piece of nothing to me.
Eating thin crust pizza is kind of like dating a 4’3" 65 lb woman to me. You know, if she had the personality of foccacia.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 18, 2008 2:05 PM PST
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went to amicis for my engagement party with the fam
soooo good. some of the best pizza ive ever had.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on
Nov 18, 2008 2:35 PM PST
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I guess – sometimes deep dish messes with me too much. The bread:sauce:cheese ratio is off.
Eating a deep dish pizza is kinda like dating a 6’5" 300 lb woman to me. You know, if she had the personality of a linebacker. And wanted to eat you.
by Rishi on
Nov 18, 2008 2:58 PM PST
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Sounds awesome to me.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 18, 2008 2:58 PM PST
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Let me count the ways.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 18, 2008 3:26 PM PST
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Hang on.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 18, 2008 3:26 PM PST
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9.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 18, 2008 3:26 PM PST
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That said, where do you get good deep dish in SF?
by Rishi on
Nov 18, 2008 3:43 PM PST
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When I’m able to get out and get good deep dish pizza, I usually get it at Zachary’s.
Which you probably know isn’t in San Francisco. Truth to tell, I’m hardly ever in the city these days, and Zachary’s suits me juuuuust fine.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Nov 18, 2008 4:22 PM PST
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Always knew...
… you were a closet Chicago fan.
by sfgfan on
Nov 18, 2008 5:00 PM PST
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zach's is the best
if they had tv’s there, we could all get together to watch a game and enjoy the deep dish
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on
Nov 19, 2008 1:07 PM PST
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You could do what we used to do for gamedays back in college – order from Zach’s (half-baked if necessary), take it out, stick it in oven, put on big-screen tv, crack open Heineken Light keg, and watch games with Zach’s pizza in comfort of apartment.
by Rishi on
Nov 20, 2008 10:54 AM PST
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I do have a problem with Marathe
He may be fine at the contractual stuff, and he may be fine with the statistical work, and if this is the case, he should continue to do that work. But this is all separate from the replay issue. And there is only way I can believe he is not bad at that part of his job — if Mike Nolan is a liar, who has thrown him under the bus on more than one occasion. In the past, Nolan has said, Marathe is “in charge” of the replay system in the booth, so saying he’s one of only 7 coaches is like saying you criticize a head coach, because he’s not the only coach on the team.
So if Marathe is the guy who told Nolan what to do, and Nolan is not lying when he said on more than one occasion he was “not told” about a potential replay situation that viewers at home had the time and access to see, then Marathe is indeed bad at that part of his job.
One such situation happened earlier this year against the Eagles, where Baskett made a big 3rd down catch putting the Eagles in the red zone, but replays clearly showed the ball hit the ground. FOX showed the replay quickly, Brian Baldinger had time to say the Niners should challenge more than once, and I myself had time to call Nolan a moron and more other words before the next snap. After the game, Nolan said he “didn’t get word from the booth in time” to challenge.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
Nov 17, 2008 7:57 PM PST
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TV vs. Coaches' booth
There’s really no saying how soon the coaches’ booth gets their replays. There’s also no telling WHICH replays the booth actually gets as well. This is not to mention the possibility that Fox (or any other TV crew) has a trailer full of guys that are watching ALL of the angles, where as the coaches booth may only have the opportunity to watch one or two at at time. Thirty seconds isn’t a whole lot of time to flip through multiple replays.
Yes, I know that it’s definitely possible that the coaches upstairs have the same access that fans do, but it’s hard to assume that to be true without actually knowing so.
As for Marathe, I understand his usefulness because of his knowledge of the rulebook. If he’s the one actually calling shots, though, it’s not really his fault more than it is the fault of whomever has put him in charge. Watching a replay and pretending to be a ref should not be what Marathe does. If he’s a strong negotiator and a book of knowledge, use him only as just that.
In any case, it’s wrong to blame him for anything replay related. If he was indeed responsible, then yes, he screwed up. But whomever put him in the position to make that mistake was seriously mistaken about his skills.
by sfgfan on
Nov 18, 2008 8:42 AM PST
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“Yes, I know that it’s definitely possible that the coaches upstairs have the same access that fans do, but it’s hard to assume that to be true without actually knowing so.”
When they reinstated the replay system a few years back, the league and its announcers made it very clear that this is exactly the case. Announcers used to say it every time there was a review: “The coaches in the booth are seeing exactly what you see at home”. That’s a major issue I’ve always had with the system — on some plays, TV doesn’t show a replay because they don’t think one is necessary, which takes away any real chance for the guys in the booth to review the play (except by just replaying the original shot of the play over on a DVR.
“In any case, it’s wrong to blame him for anything replay related. If he was indeed responsible, then yes, he screwed up. But whomever put him in the position to make that mistake was seriously mistaken about his skills.”
I agree it’s not his fault Nolan asked him to do a job he had no real training for, but at some point, you need to identify what isn’t working, even if it means pointing a finger at someone who’s trying their best and saying “You’re not good enough to do the job we’re asking you to perform”. When you think about it, that happens every day in the NFL — it’s how bad teams (like the Niners) get better. And that has to be the ultimate goal, even if a few toes get stepped on.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
Nov 18, 2008 1:21 PM PST
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Finger pointing.
If Maiocco’s article is any indication, it may mean that Marathe doesn’t have THAT big a role in challenges. Of course this may just be reading too much into it.
by sfgfan on
Nov 18, 2008 2:10 PM PST
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That may be.
But if so, I hope Marathe is no longer on speaking terms to Nolan, because Nolan certainly made it sound as if Marathe was “The Man” when it came to replay. Every time he was questioned about the challenge system, Nolan made it clear he “relied” on Marathe. If that was actually not the case, Nolan has damaged Marathe’s reputation unnecessarily. I’m not the biggest Nolan fan, but I’d be surprised if he did that — and surprised no one like Maiocco has pointed it out yet.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
Nov 18, 2008 2:41 PM PST
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How good is Marathe as a talent evaluator as well? He is partly responsible for the screaming success of Alex Smith, right?
by Rishi on
Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM PST
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Smith
I’m pretty sure Smith was a Nolan+McCloughan deal. If I’m not mistaken, Marathe just works the contract and the salary cap, in regards to players.
by sfgfan on
Nov 18, 2008 2:11 PM PST
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I’ve definitely heard that Marathe had a role in picking Nolan himself, as well as in Alex Smith.
by Rishi on
Nov 18, 2008 2:57 PM PST
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I’m sure that Marathe is good at the job he was intended to have (salary cap, contract negotiations, and statistical analysis). The problem is that because of the chaotic and rudderless nature of the organization and his close relationship with Jed York he seems (and no we don’t know for absolute sure) to have more influence than the average capologist/statistical analyst has in the better run organizations around the league. We know that he had a major role in the coaching search that led to Nolan.
It seems to me that the people with the most power in the organization are Marathe and Jed York which is unconventional to say the least. Unconventional would be fine if it was working, but given that most of us remember the days when the 49ers were the best run organization in all of professional sports and these days they are one of the worst in the NFL, there is bound to be some complaints about the unconventional.
Also, this is just a pure hunch, but I think Marathe was the guy that leaked word of Nolan’s impending firing to Michael Smith and caused that be botched so embarassingly.
by FluLikeSymptoms on
Nov 18, 2008 11:37 PM PST
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