Mike Singletary signs 4-year contract worth $10 million
It's official according to Maiocco. Mike Singletary has apparently signed a deal worth $10 million over 4 years that includes hiring and firing power over assistants (not exactly surprising):
Team president Jed York made the announcement to the team shortly after the 49ers' 27-24 victory over the Redskins on Sunday. There was already euphoria in the locker room, and the players erupted with cheers after they were told that Singletary would be the coach.
"I think all the guys who are happy today are going to regret it," Singletary quipped.
Singletary is known as a straight-talking taskmaster who works his players hard. The 49ers better get prepared for a long offseason of work and a grueling training camp.
"This is the last time our season ends in December," York said.
I realize it's only talk for now, but I do like that quote from Jed York. It's a long way until next season, but the offseason has certainly begun on a high note.
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Wow...
That’s a lot of $$$ for a guy who might be around for only a few years.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 5:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
salaries
These are estimations, but the $2.5 million per would put Singletary in the bottom half of the league:
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesNFLCoaches.htm
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by Fooch on Dec 28, 2008 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like he makes around the same as Nolan did...
Which fits in nicely with the Yorks.
BTW, of interest of the poll, I voted no on Martz.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction..
I vote “yes” on firing, and no on Martz in general.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That seems like a fair salary to me...
Now how about the Tuna bolts Miami and we sign him to help return the Niners to post-season glory!
I’m looking forward to some big free agent moves this offseason. Anyone have a sense of how much cap space we have to work with? Will the Yorks pony up the big bucks?
Young to Rice. Touchdown.
by Call It The Throw on Dec 28, 2008 6:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Cap space and whatnot
Not sure yet on cap space for 2009 as I don’t believe the final cap number has been set yet. Supposedly it should rise to at least $123 million per team in 2009, an increase of 6%.
The Yorks clearly have no problem spending money (Nate Clements, Justin Smith and Jonas Jennings all got big deals). However, I don’t know if that’s quite as necessary this year. I suppose you could go for a big defensive end to bring the pass rush, but maybe it’d be better to try and develop that with the first round pick. The team could also use an offensive tackle, but what if Adam Snyder could stay healthy and know he’d be the right tackle going forward? Maybe then just sign a veteran (who’s better than Barry Sims) as an insurance policy.
This offseason might very well be more about depth, although an Albert Haynesworth type of talent is always tempting.
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by Fooch on Dec 28, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering what they will do with Alex Smith...
Thankfully, Hill was able to finish the season (albeit very shaky at times), but the 49ers still have no true QBOTF yet, and I doubt Smith is that QB. JTO is what everybody that had a brain thought he is, and Jamie Martin is, well, Jamie Martin. Is Hill the only QB on the roster that will be a 49er next season?
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree with you..
Hill IS the man.. I’ve said it since last year. When was the last time a 49ers QB, has had, back to back, final minute, comeback victories, for the 49ers???
Not to mention his Passer Rating AND TD passes, are in the front running, of ALL NFL QB’s.
This year, doing so, even though he’s only played half a season. Most people don’t know what winning is about.. It’s about Character, Shaun has it.
Give him one chance going into the off-saeson, not having to share reps with the #1 team, and being able to build a relationship with his receivers. Something he has never had?
Shaun passes at the end of the last 2 games game were, Deep and on the money when it counted, and he rallied his team to victory.. if Singletary has ANY character he will, tell everyone his starting QB will be Hill, in 2009 the QB, who put up the WINS (even with out Gore) that gave him $10,000,000. .. YOU BETTER THINK ABOUT THAT SINGLETARY!!
Yes I’m standing up for the next GREAT QB of the SF 49ers.
Signed,
Lead Guitarist
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hill hasn't near approached "Elite" status yet...
Let’s not get too carried away here. The last 2 games he was very shaky in the first half. He is still 13-8 TD-INT. Half a season is a small sample size for both sides of the argument, but to effusively praise the guy as the “next great 49er QB” (with Y.A. Tittle, Brodie, outside of the obvious 49er QBs) is really hitting the Kool-Aid bottle harder than Nick Nolte hits the GHB. Sure, give him one full off-season with the starters without sharing reps. You could have given Smith 2 full years in the same offense with a better cast around him too, like say, give him one more year of Turner, with this WR corp.
I think Hill is pretty solid, but come on now.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah..
Thats what they said when I was bragging about Garcia after His SECOND start.
And please go back to Montana’s, Youngs, Garcia’s, Brodies, and and mr. Tittle’s stats after their first 10 Starts. I would love to see the comparison, c’mon FOOCH GET DANNY ON IT..LOL
Btw.. I am ver happy to be discussing this with another 49er fan, I respect that you are still holding your breath.. but I’ve already held mine too long $10 Million, Shau deserves a real shot from his new permanent HC, he helped him get the job, more than anyone else, next to the 49ers Defense as a whole..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We should see what you said..
When Rattay, Dorsey, and Smith started as well.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought
Rattay was ok.. I think Dorsey Should still be on this team as a back up. But I never said anything future wise a bout Alex Smith, of course I rooted for us to win, but his Demeanor, always left me short of a personal fan, yes I wanted Dorsey over Smith, I was there when Dosey led the 49ers to beat the Buccs, in the Toughest Qb character impression of that season.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dorsey as a backup
Please no. He’s no good even as a backup.
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by Fooch on Dec 28, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..well
..he’s better than Alex Smith hands down, would you reather have JTO? and BTW Jerry Rice Just endorsed Shaun Hill as our starter for 09’ after doggin’ him ..lol
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..he’s better than Alex Smith hands down,
holy [site decorum] no
I’d rather have Alex Smith with a bum shoulder. I’d rather have Alex Smith with a bum arm. I’d rather have Alex Smith with no arm. I’d rather have Alex Smith when he’s dead. I’d rather have Alex Smith when he’s dead and a zombie and trying to eat the brains of Frank Gore. I’d rather have Alex Smith the half cyborg monster intent on destroying humanity.
There are no words for how terrible Ken Dorsey is.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Dec 29, 2008 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ken Dorsey is not better than Alex Smith
Have you seen what he’s done in Cleveland, even with a stud like Braylon Edwards? I’m sure Ken Dorsey’s a great guy, but as an NFL QB, he’s awful.
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by Fooch on Dec 29, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen them both play..
..and you know what Dorsey has shown me more since that college bowl, I think he lost.. and since he’s been in a niner uni.. just because of his pocket presence.. yes it was ugly.. but at the time he won a game we would of lost if Alex was back there.. it so obvious you guys have not gioven up on him. sad..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith
If you’ve read some of my stuff from earlier in the season you’ll know I’d prefer seeing Shaun Hill next season over Alex Smith. My comment had nothing to do with whether Smith should be the guy next year or even be on the team. It was simply comparing Dorsey and Smith, nothing more, nothing less.
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by Fooch on Dec 29, 2008 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was..
Simply comparing Dorsey and Smith after watching them both start.. and Dorsey actually won that one.. it was ugly.. but aas pretty as anything Alex ever did.. look I didn;t mean to make you guys mad. I know Alex is gone.. i’m sorryi made a big fuss really.. I’m a niner fan!! I got an A.A. in Double Rock next 2 candlestick.. i’m am way hardcore even more than that.. don’t worry I ainlt goin’ nowhere.. But obviously, i’m the old man around here..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm from miami...a canes fan...
watched dorsey in college…went to a game or two (dorsey to shockey to beat FSU in the last minute)…loved every second of it…the guy was a maven at the U…if anyone has the authority to say the guy is a (site decorum) pro QB, it’s me.
the guy is a (site decorum) pro QB. sorry, man.
by Florida Danny on Dec 30, 2008 12:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'm a Canes fan, too!
Bad week for us. Although they fired Nix and I’m happy about that.
Yeah, you’re 100% right about Dorsey. Alex Smith has many problems. Many, many problems. But he does have physical tools. Whether he ever learns to use him is another question.
Dorsey, on the other hand, has no skills. I loved the guy at UM because he always won, but even there he was one of the worst athletes on the field — he got away with it by being tough, a leader, and knowing the offense inside and out. But when you can’t run, can’t throw, and make bad decisions, you have no chance in the NFL. Not only did he have 0 TD’s while throwing 7 INT’s, he failed to lead the Browns to an offensive TD of any kind. In four games. And then he was benched in favor of Bruce Gradkowski, a guy who’d been signed off the street the week before. that’s not good.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 30, 2008 12:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then...
Charlie Ward should have never been a PG in the NBA.
by drummer on Dec 30, 2008 12:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dorsey was our backup last year...
…except he changed his name was trent dilfer. seriously…have you seen cleveland’s offense lately? if the niners want an inaccurate, interception-prone, rag-armed qb, why not just coax dilfer out of the espn studios?
by Florida Danny on Dec 29, 2008 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Montana
Just for the heck of it, Pro Football Reference can help you a little bit:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01.htm
Montana started 1 game his first season, then started 7 his second season. He actually put up some impressive numbers for a second year QB.
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by Fooch on Dec 28, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
shows..
His win loss rec was 3-8.. Shaun is 5-0 at home?
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Btw?
Montana had Bill Walsh..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
isn't it funny..
Once you posted this link.. I’ve heard absolutely zero comparisons (except from you) since..
Here’s one for every 49er fan. Joe Cool, the king of 4th quarte comebacks. Shaun has 2 in his last 2 games. How many Did My favorite player have in his first 8 starts?
Now this is getting silly.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's worse when people think...
you are seriously comparing Hill to Montana.
Well, worse for you. Not that you think anything of it.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man..
I watched Monatan do every great thing he ever did.. he’s my favorite player, If I didn’t see, the same quality, i would not be comparing. What did you think after you watched Montana’s first 8 starts?
C’mon, after watching those 8 starts.. did you really think he would come back in the 4th quarter of the Chapionship game, the following year to lead the 49ers to the suoperbowl over america’s team?
Heck.. did you even expect him to win that game?
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen enough of Montana...
Through my years as a 49er fan (since 1977) to know that Hill isn’t Joe Montana.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No one!
knew who Joe Montana was.. he almost was a basketball player, and untill the 49ers made it to the Championship game, certainely no one cared, expect maybe his alma – the fightin’ irish..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
btw..
..I knew this because I got his rookie card.. no I don;t have yes it sucks.. but I remember reading on that card that he was almost drafted for his basketball skills, by 2 major colleges.. no I can’t remeber which ones..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have it because..
I got it at easter when I was 4.. and my trading card collection was stolen when I was 13.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..btw
double 13-8 you get 26 and 16.. sounds like a decent Montana year to me..lol and Montana is my favorite player.. lol I just checked Montana won the Super bowl with a regular season stat of 26 td 16 int in 1990..lol
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..weird?!?
..lol
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even weirder...
When you can compare Charlie Batch cooking up stats like Julia Child.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like we..
Should at least give him another 8 games to make a fair comparison, I guess.. :)
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
By that time..
You will have him over Unitas in Canton.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey..
if they let people hit QB’s like they did when Unitas and Montana were playing, you would agree with me that 1/2 the starting QB’s in this league would be scared sissies, but not Shaun.. he would still be putting up the same #’s..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hill lasted only 2 games..
last season.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thats..
because the season ended.. man we would be better off singing a practice squad player, than keeping that locker room leaker A. Smith on our team, that guy will definitely not go to canton.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh....
The season ended with Weinke at QB, because Hill got hurt in a game prior the the final game. Something about his back, um, yeah.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..I know
.. Hill missed one Play then threw a td pass on a slant route to Darrell Jackson (who?).. then found out he had a dislocated back.. missed one game and would’ve come back but the season ended.. He threw the go ahead Td with a dislocated back, have you ever thrown anything with a dislocated back?
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The point is..
Hill got hurt, so he isn’t “immortal”.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my point is..
.. he came back hurt (see Ronnie Lott) and threw a TD to win the game.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, what next?....
You gonna call him Bill Walsh next?
Lay off of the juice. Seriously.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No..
..Even Singletary will tell you that.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Juice..
You are the one cheering on Alex Smith?
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in 3 years..
I saw Alex Smith play 2 games, that were really good, not great. But I’m telling you he is really fragile. This is the NFL. Now I have yet to see Hill have a GREAT game other than the one against the jets, I thought was pretty good. Yes he has a lot of work to do, but he can do it. He has the mentality to be tough under pressure.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unitas over Hill?
Please!!! In his rookie season Johnny Unitas was 4-3 with a QB rating of 74.0. Clearly Hill is going to be better than Unitas.
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by Fooch on Dec 28, 2008 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What was I thinking?....
We have the next Unitas on our team.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Names Hill..
.. Shaun Hill
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love it when...
Every reply is started in the title of the reply.
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Dec 28, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And it's GHB..
Not Kool-Aid, that you are drinking.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet
you think Alex Smith is gonna come back and win the starting job..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's try to get back on track...
and I don’t mean your “bandwagon” either. The depth chart as of the last game was iffy enough as it is, and Hill was the only good option left. That’s it. Smith would have started over Hill if Smith wasn’t on IR. That’s it also. Smith was #2 on the depth chart before he went on IR. That’s one more “that’s it” to go along with the others. I am not a Smith fan in the least, but let’s get real here. It’s hard to argue with obstinate fanboi rhetoric, but I am willing to give you to some benefit of opportunity to understand this.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I went to the game..
I watched Alex Smith Play. I’m telling you Alex Smith fans, this kid has YEARS before he can take a hit by a grown man.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
SEE..
.. Troy Aikman.. I hate the Cowboys, but man could he take a smack!
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ON Albert Haynesworth
They should spend what they need to to get a player of his quality in the team. Possibly make him the only FA signing in the offseason, and then concentrate on building where its needed through the draft.
On Martz I voted no cos I believe that we desperatley need some continuity on offence, and another season with the same system in place, to me,would only see the players grow in confidence with their familiarity of it and thus see their performances improve.
Another change to OC means another system and starting all over again.
by Ninerfromacrossthepond on Dec 28, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted yes
i’m still kind of undecided, I think once the season is over and we see what is available it would be easier to decide what to do. If there is noone out there, I don’t see why we don’t give Martz a second year, keep a little consistency in the offense, and maybe Sing will remember he can overrule Martz so he won’t have as much power to pull his BS. I don’t think I would have a problem with him sticking around if that were the case.
Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal
by 49erLou on Dec 28, 2008 6:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great Day
Niners finish the season on a high note and the start the offseason on another high note. I’m once again feeling a sense of joy about being a Niners fan.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Dec 28, 2008 6:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hill is the man
So now Hill has started basically a half a season. As Lead Guitarest has said, he is the man. I bet you all, he will be a decent QB and I have trust in him. Look at the last two games. We came from behind and for an inexperienced QB got the job done.
Congrats Mike and let’s hope next year shows more progress. Look at what the Dolphins did this year.
by kennyhel77 on Dec 28, 2008 6:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN bottom line ticker is still reporting 5 years.
by mikev on Dec 28, 2008 8:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The text is getting too narrow in the posting above, so I'm replying down here.
I don’t know how you can deny Hill as the 49ers QB for at least the beginning of next season. He has had a very good run (even with the turnovers) as the starting qb, and benching him in place of another qb with, most likely, another OC, its one step forwards, two steps back. Of course, Hill could be playing with a new OC, but he has had successful experience with our offense, and sometimes that kind of confidence is more important than anything else.
I have no problem with drafting a qb in later rounds (4-7), or keeping smith for a muuuuch lower contract as a backup/competing for starting role. However, denying what hill has done as our QB is not smart. There are other areas that need a lot more immediate attention (both sides of the line, safety, wr, maybe even RBOTF?)
As to the topic of the article, Good Job Singletary, and (I can’t believe I’m about to say this) Good Job Yorks (oh my stomach…) Samurai Mike deserves this job, and now we can see what he can do with a whole off-season, draft class, and pre-season. Not ready to anoint him as our savior quite yet, but needless to say I am highly optimistic.
And finally, as for the poll, I would vote Indifferent. I don’t see any superstar OCs in the league that we could bring in (unless the chargers lose this 24 point lead I’m looking at) so we don’t really further ourselves with anything new. Then again, we don’t have the personell for a Martz offense, so I really don’t see a real positive up side either way. If I had to chose now, cya Martz, I’d rather let our best player on offense be the focal point of our offense. But he has shown that he can adjust his play calling with enough Samurai influence.
I said to myself an 8-8 season at the end of this year would be satisfying for me. Considering all the [site decorum] that took place this season, 7-9 and a new head coach is good in my book. GO NINERS.
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Dec 28, 2008 8:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I feel..
..the exact same way about Martz. But I think Singletary already has his guy in mind, I think the decision was made weeks ago.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 28, 2008 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not that anyone cares but...
going into the redskins game, hill was having the best DYAR season for a 49er QB since garcia in 2003.
Hill ’08 — +97 (28th)
Hill ’08 prorated to 16 games — +183 (25th)
Garcia ’03 — +357 (14th)
Garcia ’03 prorate to 16 games — +439
between garcia and hill, no niner QB has had a positive DYAR for the season.
by Florida Danny on Dec 28, 2008 9:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
so..
..the #‘s don’t lie??
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I care, but since 2003...
The 49ers had who at QB?
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 10:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
that's kind of the point...
if the niners can get someone who’s going to be better than hill on week 1 of 2009, by all means. otherwise, there’s no reason to just lump him in with the garbage QBs that have been trotted through SF over the past 5 seasons.
by Florida Danny on Dec 28, 2008 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of those QBs were garbage...
But they also had garbage around them for talent as well. Something Hill has over them as well.
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
please tell me what this "talent" you speak of is
a stone-handed superstar “blocking TE”?
a 90-year old #1 WR?
a cast-off cardinal WR?
a 2nd-year injury-prone WR?
a rookie WR?
a rookie LG?
a 2nd-year injury-prone RG?
a 2nd-year LT?
a revolving door at RT?
seems to me, the only bona fide “talent” on that offense is frank gore, and he’s been there for several years now, through several of those other garbage QBs’ tenures.
by Florida Danny on Dec 28, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Grr
How dare you speak so callously of the almighty Bruuuuuuuuuce! He’s still worthy of being a solid #2….
Hill and Morgan also showed flashes this year as well, so I don’t think the receiving corps is as bad as you make it out to be.
The rest of them? Yeah….
by Cruithear on Dec 28, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying the WRs are bad...
…just arguing that the difference in talent this year isn’t what drummer’s claiming it to be.
by Florida Danny on Dec 29, 2008 12:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..it's better!
..but they are just kids still. give the receivers another year with their new starting QB.
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As opposed to...
Barlow, Conway, Lloyd, Harris, Morton, Hicks, Woods, etc?
by drummer on Dec 28, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
easy now...
woods? let’s not get carried away with our arguments here. woods never sniffed the light of day for the 49ers (thanks donahue).
morton and conway? these guys barely saw the light of day. if you wore sunglasses, you would have missed their stints in SF.
i’m talking about starters or part-time starters, basically significant contributors, when i listed the “talent” above.
04 — barlow/hicks (~1200 combined rush yds), wilson (47-641-3), lloyd (43-565-6), e johnson (82-825-2)
05 — barlow/gore/hicks (~1500 combined rush yds), lloyd (48-733-5), battle (32-363-3),
06 — gore (~1700 rush yds), battle (59-686-3), bryant (40-733-3), e johnson (34-292-2), vd (20-265-3)
07 — gore (~1100 rush yds), battle (50-600-5), d jackson (46-497-3), vd (52-509-4)
08 — gore (~1000 rush yds), bruce (61-835-7), b johnson (45-546-3), j hill/battle/morgan (74-954-6), vd (31-358-2)
so essentially, the numbers are the same overall if you consider there’s been more passing than rushing under martz. either way, gore’s been on the team for 4 of the 5 intervening seasons between 2003 and 2008. in 2004, the niners had the best TE in the game in terms of catches. in 2006, they had bryant, who’s turned out to be pretty damn good with tampa bay. in 2007, the offense sucked, yet vd had his best season.
i don’t really see how there’s an obvious difference in offensive talent between 04-07 and 08. there’s certainly not enough to explain how much better s hill has been when compared to the qbs that were taking snaps from 04-first half of 08. i mean, the performance of those qbs isn’t even in the same galaxy as what hill has done in the 2nd half of this season.
and all of the above is totally ignoring the fact that s hill has 3 players with basically 1 season or less of experience on his offensive line.
by Florida Danny on Dec 29, 2008 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did any of the prior QB's (post cap purge) have..
A HOF WR in Bruce to throw to?
That post cap purge team was one of the least talented squads in the League during that period. Battle (yes, Battle) was their only consistent WR. You put Hill on that ‘04 squad, and then tell me puts up his numbers of this latter half of this season. You also have to factor in the Martz effect on passing numbers. You’re talking about a post Terry Donahue team, to the 4th year of Nolan/ScotM. During that period, the 49ers had one of the worst WR corps up until this season. The addition of both Bruce and Johnson alone is way better than any of the WRs they had in the past. JTO put up big numbers in this offense with these WRs. Put JTO on that 04 squad, and I doubt he lasts the pre-season.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the niners had a HOF WR this year just like...
the jets had a HOF QB. didn’t really get either of them much of anywhere.
i did factor in martz’s effect on the passing numbers:
so essentially, the numbers are the same overall if you consider there’s been more passing than rushing under martz.
i’ll grant you that the WRs sucked overall for the 4 seasons prior to this one. but like i said, they had the #1 TE in 04, antonio bryant in 06, and the best vd of vd’s career in 07. this doesn’t even factor in frank gore leading the team in receptions for the past 3 seasons. my point is that there’s no way a definitive case can be made that we should just dismiss shaun hill’s season (like you’re doing) on account of superior talent. maybe the WR talent is a bit better, but the overall offensive talent (which includes the inexperienced OL this season) is not superior enough to have made this big of a difference in QB play.
also, in terms of martz, you’re making my argument for me. jto had the same talent and the same martz as OC, yet his season was a disaster when compared to hill’s.
by Florida Danny on Dec 29, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you factor in the defense yet? ...
That kind of has a factor in this, being that in ’04 and ’05, they were ranked 32nd, and this year they have improved considerably.
The one thing you missed with JTO: he played in a more wide open offense than Hill has. Bruce has been a factor this season, and you can’t dismiss that, no matter how you would like to try.
I’m not dismissing Hill, but, like I’ve said, put him on the ’04 team, and tell me how he would have fared.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what about hill on the...
06 and early 07 teams?
i think this is a bit of chicken and egg argument that you’re making…
you’re saying hill being better than QBs 1-100 that the niners had from 03-08 is due to differences in talent. what’s your “talent” argument? isaac bruce. with jto, this “talent” had 21-363-4 in 7.5 games…with hill, he had 39-470-3 in 7.5 games. so you tell me…did bruce’s talent cause hill to be a better qb than jto or did hill being a better qb than jto cause bruce’s dormant talent to appear? you’re missing the reverse causation. good qbs make the players around them better just like good players around the qb make the qb better. it’s not one or the other.
by Florida Danny on Dec 29, 2008 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying Hill isn't better...
Than Dorsey, Rattay, the Bullriding dude, or even Smith. I’m saying he has more talent, and a better situation/environment than any of those other QB’s had. I’m also saying that if he was in the same environment as say, the Bullriding dude, he wouldn’t play as well as he is playing now.
I mean, come on now. Bruce went to the Pro Bowl with Tony Banks as his QB. All of the sudden, Hill made him?
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hill vs. Smith - talent
I actually think Smith has more natural talent than Hill. It’s just Hill has something in the mental department that makes up for it.
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by Fooch on Dec 29, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Talent?
did you actually go to the games and watch him play?????????????????????????????????????????
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thats like saying..
yngwie is better than jimi???
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to judge Smith's talent...
When he is so fundamentally unsound. All you have to do is look at his footwork. That shows you his instincts more than what he reads and reacts, which is worse than his footwork. Of course, he hasn’t had much coaching, and one more year of Martz spells his doom if Martz stays.
LOL, I heard a caller on KNBR today, saying the 49ers should keep Martz, draft a QB to understudy Hill and whoever else at QB, while not even realizing that Martz has never drafted a QB per se (where is Joe Germaine, Jeff Smoker, etc?) that has done anything in the NFL. This is the sole reason why Martz should be gone. You will never have your QBOTF in his system, especially when he leaves after one year. His system is his system. He doesn’t leave it around for the team to build on it.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hey..
Give Hill one real shot..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They did...
JTO beat him out during pre-season.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
jto is a lil kid admit it!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I DO!
Think Alex can throw the ball… really do.. but he is so scared and fragile.. we CANNOT have a QB that is afraid?
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
with Sing..
I think this conver.. will be a mute point.. but we should jam.. :)
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Moot point...
Much like I always tell the guitarist it’s really an 8th note, not a 32nd.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
more like..
a 128th note!
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 30, 2008 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
can you hold it down?
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 30, 2008 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..for those
who don’t know music.. that is canhe keep a tempo..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 30, 2008 12:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i meant knowing he was..
..the starter.. gah! he wil be I have know more argument. i was a D capt. @ MLB and if I know Sing.
..Shaun WILL be are starter, and every 49er fan will be happy with a winning seaon..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you knew Sing...
Smith would have been the starter over Hill, if Smith wasn’t on IR.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like ..
Thaqt you don’t back down.. that 49er blood..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a drummer...
I always have to calm down the guitarist, and bail him out of jail so we can make the next gig :)
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not all of us are so stupid..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 11:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that..
I just try to keep them from proving it.
by drummer on Dec 29, 2008 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think this site.should be called..
please.. just please give Alxe Smith one more chance to be a great 49er QB website..lol..
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 30, 2008 12:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you point out one post anywhere on this site that claims Alex Smith should be given another chance to start for the Niners?
I don’t think you can.
Instead, I think what happened was you made an error by saying he was worse than Dorsey — they’re both bad, but Dorsey’s clearly worse — and then when someone pointed out how wrong you were, the only course of action you could come up with was to accuse us all of being Alex Smith lovers (when, in reality, it’s closer to the opposite).
Here’s an example of what I’m talking about: I say I’d rather eat dog poo than bear poo, so you go around telling everyone that I said dog poo was the most delicious thing I’ve ever tasted.
See how silly and inaccurate that is?
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 30, 2008 12:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think we both know i'm not saying...
hill made bruce. that’s like saying rich gannon made jerry rice. i’m just saying that whatever talent bruce has left didn’t show up until after hill became the starter. if you’re going to base your talent argument on the WRs, and focus it on bruce, then you can’t help but acknowledge that hill did better than jto with the same “talent.” further, if you look at the “talent” dorsey, rattay, bullrider, dilfer, weinke, et al. had between 03 and 08, it’s not a huge enough difference to account for hill’s superior performance this season.
by Florida Danny on Dec 30, 2008 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What you are missing here...
Is that, even with your love for Dorsey, that most scrub QB’s would have done squat with the talent at hand on both sides of the ball (remember, not only did the 49ers have zero continuity of assistants during Nolan’s regime, but TD didn’t allow Erickson his own until TD purged a Pro-Bowl offensive roster), and that Hill has only been successful under a scaled down offense (or scaled up under Tollner, LOL). The reality is: Hill is “Peaking” with a better team overall than the previous QB’s have had, and even then, he has been shaky in the past few games, and without the better defenses his predecessors had, he would have at least 2 more losses. I’m sure you can compile stats to what Dilfer did with both TAM and BAL, or even what Scott Mitchell did when he had Barry Sanders, or even Kordell in PIT. Hill has been more erratic than solid late, and he has the benefit of mega $$ on his defense. You know darn well that the one constant on this team that showed improvement was on the defense, and even that could prove an anomaly against bad offensive playcalling from the opposition.
The bottom line is: Mr. Checkdown is what he is. Let’s not give him more creedence to the reality of what his predecessors faced.
by drummer on Dec 30, 2008 1:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Martz is gone
I reluctantly voted for him going, because he was so much better than “doing the Hostler” but bottom line the signs are all there that someone else will be in here to run the offense.
I think Hill has been fine this year. Only in the Dallas game was the offense outclassed with him in charge. But that doesn’t mean that the Niners shouldn’t be looking for a quarterback for the future. If they can pick up a rookie who can sit for a few years that’d be fine. It’s funny, I still don’t have a strong feeling on whether or not Alex Smith can be a good NFL quarterback. I don’t know if he’ll be physically okay, or if he’ll ever be able to make quick decisions. Wherever Smith ends up, he’ll get minimum backup quarterback money, so it wouldn’t be that costly to take a chance on him. It’s just if there is enough talent there. JTO seems to be wedded to Martz’s fate, which probably means he’ll be gone. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if he resurfaces somewhere in a few years and actually becomes a good quarterback.
In the meantime, the Niners need a pass-rusher, need some ball hawks in the secondary. Putting Haynesworth on the D-line would be great. On offense, Gore is looking like he’s beginning to wear down. Foster has done okay this last month, but seeing someone like Jahvid Best reminds me of how fast a young running back can be. Clayton has been hidden on the taxi squad for two years now. Either he has it or he doesn’t, so I expect either Clayton move up or move on.
Receivers? I don’t know. Each one could have a short highlight film but there’s no dominant one among them.
by Bob On The Coast on Dec 29, 2008 6:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
LET ME MAKE ONE THING F******** CLEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike Singletary is the new head coach for the next 4 years. KISS ALEX SMITH GOODBYE!!!!!!!
by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Dec 29, 2008 10:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You need to settle down.
Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!
by Fooch on Dec 29, 2008 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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