Golden Nuggets: Just sign Clayton, please!
by James Brady on Dec 9, 2008 3:49 AM PST
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As of 3:00 PM PST I've updated in the comments--check out the other links.
Hey guys, James here. The topic title pretty much says what's on my mind right now. Obviously I'd love to have Gore healthy but if he doesn't get to play are we really going to start DeShaun Foster? Yeah, we are. But I think we need to sign Thomas Clayton. Absolutely have to. This guy is a certified beast and I want him on the roster. In fact, this offseason, I hope we turf Foster and bring Clayton in as a full backup. He can take some of the touches for Gore, make it more of a two-back running attack that seems to be getting popular. Anyway, I have nothing else to talk about because all that's really on my mind right now is Thomas Clayton, getting him signed, and this delicious, delicious tea. Enjoy the links, folks.
Our goal is to go 8-8. Fine, I'll accept that. For now. (SFGate.com)
Singletary say's Vernon Davis' blocking is the best he's every seen from a tight end. This may be pushing it. (SFGate.com)
Did you see Singletary chewing the refs out at halftime? It was bloody brilliant... The fact that he didn't want to settle, always wanted to attack. Good stuff. (SFGate.com)
Mike Martz deserves credit--and I'll give it to him. Again: for now. (PressDemocrat.com)
I was originally going to talk about this article in a different way but now I can only say: "OMG Thomas Clayton siting." (Note, picture this in your head as very high pitched, giddy, and a very tired looking 6'7'' guy jumping into the air from a sitting position clapping like... like a little girl.) ANYWAY. Link. (PressDemocrat.com)
Here's Matt Maiocco's latest thoughts on Singletary and Hill. (PressDemocrat.com)
More about the running back situation. I really hope we promote Clayton. For some reason I feel like somebody might snatch him up some day. (Wouldn't that be the worst if the Dolphins took him just so he cant beast on 'em Sunday?) But anyway, also to note is a pretty interesting quote from Shaun Hill at the end about Vernon Davis. (InsideBayArea.com)
More on that quote and Davis' game in general here. (SacBee.com)
Even more on the running back situation, and a nice snippet about Nolan. (SacBee.com)
Now I'm scared. Clayton has apparently received some interest from other teams this season. I dunno why I like this guy so much. Anyway, this article focuses on the pro bowl. (SacBee.com)
Samuel Lam gives us an article about the state of the Niners, how we will finish, etc and a preview for Miami to boot. (MVN.com)
Get ready, Niner fans.. The race to .500 is on. (RealFootball365.com)\
This week's Team Issued features Joe Staley. (49ers.com)
May as well go vote for Vernon Davis for the pro bowl--even though he wont get in on receptions everyone seems pretty set on calling him a great blocker. (49ers.com)
Thomas Clayton apparently thought Martz hated him. (But Martz is a huge fan, apparently.) (49ers.com)
Here's yesterdays edition of Singletary's Notebook. (49ers.com)
That's all for now. Enjoy.
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does this qualify as...
…a man crush? ;-)
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 9, 2008 5:53 AM PST reply actions
Clayton
Oh I’m hoping for Clayton too. Would love for Gore to get to play in his hometown on Sunday, but the next best thing would be to bring up Clayton. I really want to see if those preseason moves translate to the regular season.
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by David Fucillo on Dec 9, 2008 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
i couldn't agree more!!
I was hoping Clayton would be the back to spell Gore this year. After they chose not to re-sign Hicks, I was sure that’s what the plan was. Foster was brought in to spell Gore when needed, however, Gore has been looking for more carries, not less. Robinson and his butter fingers can’t be relied on to carry the ball. I thought for sure after Keasey went down and Robinson was moved to fullback or H-back or whatever, that Clayton would be signed then, but instead they brought in Sean Ryan for special teams reason. Is Clayton still too unpolished?
what is with the people on this site...
and their ridiculous hard-ons for Thomas Clayton?
There’s a reason he’s on the practice squad.
My thoughts...
… exactly.
I’m up for giving the guy a chance, but it’s not like Foster is playing his way out of a job. Clayton will get his time. With the Broncos sniffing around Clayton, it’s possible the 49ers add him to the roster just to prevent him from leaving. Even if he does, so what?
It’s been argued pretty handily lately that RBs are easy to come by. Why worry about a practice squad RB who has missed on TWO seasons of trying to make the active roster?
His time will come if he deserves a shot. Until then I’m happy Clayton doesn’t make the active roster, as that means Frank Gore is still healthy enough to play.
I'm sorry but from what I've seen from him in preseason, practice, etc
The guy is great. I think he could be a starter, easily. He didn’t make the team because the team obviously thought DeShaun Foster would be a better fit, he didn’t really come into his own until this preseason and we had already signed Foster to a deal so we went with Foster. He’s not playing well I believe… so… I just believe in the guy, I think he needs his chance right now.
Okay...
So lets say the 49ers are making a mistake and they think (mistakenly, according to you) that Foster is the better option for the team. Why haven’t any of the NFL’s other 31 teams taken a shot at him? There are plenty of teams in this league in dire need of a starting running back (which you think he can be, easily). Heck, there are plenty of teams in this league that are in dire need of a #2 or #3 back, either of which would sit on a team’s 53-man roster. However, there is not a single team in this league willing to put him on their 53-man roster, not even as a third string back. It’s easy to think that the 49ers have made a mistake, but it’s hard to imagine all 32 teams missing the boat if there is truly talent that is ready to shine there (after two years).
The truth of the matter is this: he’s still a very raw player. He’s still fairly unknown, and while he HAS done some things in preseason, they’ve generally been against the team’s second or third string (camp fodder) players. As I said, his time will come if he shows that that chance is warranted.
The answer is in your post:
He’s still fairly unknown. That’s all there is to it. I’m sorry but I thought the preseason was to measure talent, but they seem to have some other weird way of determining what defines talent these days because I see frequent “tryout” players playing better than anybody else and still getting the shunt because the truth is simple: everything is mostly decided before the preseason anyway.
I’ll continue to lobby for the guy, having viewed him in practice several times I’m pumped to see him on the field. If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong, I’m note exactly influencing Singletary to bring him in, am I?
I thought the preseason was to measure talent, but they seem to have some other weird way of determining what defines talent these days
Like sfgfan was saying, Clayton did this against second and third string players in the preseason. You’ve already hailed him as the next great back in the league.
Deshaun Foster has been a quality back and a veteran, and while I’m not endorsing him in any way (he fumbles way too much), he still is a better running back than Clayton. sfgfan makes another good point saying that if Clayton were so good, why have 31 other teams not looked to him. A team in our own division are in dire need of a running back this year, the Seahawks.
I’m all for giving him a chance and if Gore isn’t up for it this week, then sign Clayton and make him the third string back (Michael Robinson is a reliable power back as well).
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Dec 9, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
He did do well against the second and third string players
Who are all players in the NFL. The point is, he was in there to see if he could play. He played. He then should’ve got the nod to prove himself against the first string players. He did not, instead we got DeShaun Foster who has so far been less than impressive. And again, the 31 other teams haven’t looked at him because again, he’s relatively unknown. Little exposure. I just think he deserves a chance.
I don't think the 31 other teams are as oblivous as you think
Teams sign players, who are just as unknown as Clayton, all the time.
by methodrampage on Dec 9, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
michael robinson is a reliable power back?
where are you and sfgfan coming up with these blatantly nonreality-based assertions about the niners’ backup rbs? in 3 seasons with the niners, he’s made a minimal-at-best contribution to the niners’ offense (<2 rush att/g, 3.6 ypc, <1 reception/g). as i said in my post below, how is a guy reliable when he’s your short-yardage back, but can’t pick up short-yardage first downs/touchdowns (see arizona game for obvious example)? by far, robinson’s true value is on special teams, so elevating clayton would be a win-win for the niners offense and special teams if clayton turns out to be a reality-based “reliable backup.” the ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT is to give the guy a shot.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 9, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
Robinson
You say that Mike’s numbers are bad…for a regular feature back they are. When all you’re asked to do is get a first down of 2 yards or shorter, which is all he is asked to do, those numbers aren’t bad at all. He only gets 2 carries a game…what do you think those carries are for? Short yardage!!
Also you point to the Arizona game of Robinson not getting the short yardage. That was an embarrassing play-call by Martz and an even more embarrassing performance by the line on that particular play. The best running backs of all time couldn’t have done anything on that play where the moment the ball was in his hands, the defensive line had already gotten solid penetration and broken that play up.
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Dec 9, 2008 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
no stats to help you now huh Danny
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure you know more than every GM in football
Because none of them think he’s roster spot worthly let alone starter quality.
by methodrampage on Dec 9, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
three things...
1) wait a second…“it’s not like foster is playing himself out of a job”? the guy is a one-man fumble recovery drill and he’s averaging a whopping 2.1 yards per carry this season…in an equally whopping 37 carries this eason. if that’s not “playing yourself out of a job,” i’d like to know what is.
2) as singletary (and most every other competently run franchise in the league) has shown, the ONLY way to find out if a guy with potential is ever going to realize that potential is to get his ass on the field and see what he can do. this was nolan’s waterloo. he’d leave older stiffs on the field for way too long despite (site decorum) performance, be forced to make some symbolic change in the lineup after losing 5 or 6 games in a row, only to find out after the change that, (site decorum), this backup could actually play (see shaun hill, brandon moore, keith lewis, etc.). so sure, you can argue that foster must be better because he’s actually on an active NFL roster, but when the (site decorum) do you propose the niners actually find out if clayton is ever going to amount to anything? how many games of foster making no (and sometimes) negative contributions to the team do you have to endure before you say, “hey, let’s give this youngster a shot to see what he can do?” if recent history continues to form (see chilo rachal), i don’t think singletary would be averse to what i’m talking about here.
combining points (1) and (2), i arrive at my overall point:
(3) clayton is a 24-year old unknown commodity who has shown immense potential— albeit against backups most of the time — and is making $90k per season. foster is a 28-year old known commodity (aka a 2.1-ypc fumbler) who has shown that he’s washed up — against NFL starters no less — and is making $1.9 million per season. so to me, giving clayton a chance RIGHT NOW not only gives you the benefit of seeing what you have in him, but also allows you to potentially save a decent amount of money (not the full $1.81 difference of course) in the offseason by cutting foster’s dead weight and elevating clayton to the role as gore’s primary backup (which also returns michael “i’m your short-yardage back who has fumblitis and can’t gain short yardage” robinson to his keith-lewis-esque role of special teams maven). to me — and this is not 20/20 hindsight talking — it was a sign of mcnolan’s incompetence that they signed foster in the first place rather than just elevating clayton from the practice squad. it would have saved them money that they could have spent elsewhere.
please give me a logical argument that proves i’m wrong about this.
p.s. this whole debate is analogous to the yearly retread coaching hires in the NFL and other leagues. do you want to pay top dollar for a coach who has proven himself to be mediocre/has a diviisional-round playoff loss ceiling (see wade phillips and norv turner), or do you want to spend a little less for a young up-and-coming coach who has both a high ceiling and low floor (see jon gruden)? if the name of the game is winning super bowls, then mediocrity is unacceptable, especially at the price required for a retread perennial choke-artist head coach.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 9, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not writing him off by any means...
… I just don’t see why people are so enamored by him. It’s one thing to see real potential against real competition (which he has shown here or there). It’s another to blindly support a guy which has shown flashes against third string players. I’m not disagreeing those who think he deserves a chance. I’m simply disagreeing to those who think he’s “ZOMG A GREAT BACK!11” that’s somehow being left to rot on the practice squad.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t even be on the roster right now or that he doesn’t deserve to be. I’m simply saying that it’s understandable that the 49ers having activated him. It’s also understandable that he hasn’t gotten a chance (it’s also arguable what kind of chance he would get even IF he was on the active roster instead of Foster). You have two veterans who have shown more over a longer period of time than him (meaning Gore and Foster). Foster isn’t doing well this year, but to be fair to him, he hasn’t really had any kind of consistency (in terms of playing time and/or touches), has he?
To answer your question in #1. When do you bench Foster in favor of Clayton? If Gore misses significant playing time this week and Foster continues to struggle.
yeah...
…i’m not in the “thomas clayton man crush” camp at all. just think that, given mcnolan’s propensity to indeed let players rot on the bench, we NEED to find out whether clayton’s preseason studliness — man crush pun intended — is a mirage or not. having him as the primary backup is a high-ceiling, low-cost alternative to guys who are known to be ineffective in that role. foster is a disgrace this year (despite his attempts) and robinson has had 3 years to show he can be the primary backup. in fact, robinson is a decent example of what i’m talking about in re clayton. robinson was undrafted, but they saw potential. they threw him on the field in special teams and he was/is a stud. based on his ST performance, they gave him time at RB to see what he had at that position. verdict’s in and it’s not looking good.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 9, 2008 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
please give me a logical argument that proves i’m wrong about this.
Foster’s sample size is a little to small to start claiming that “[Foster] has shown that he’s washed up]”. Foster hasn’t really been given much a chance to contribute.
by methodrampage on Dec 9, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
If all 32 NFL teams deem you unworthy of a roster spot
After watching your college and NFL preseason games then there’s a 99% chance that you’re just not good enough. Please don’t kose any sleep over Clayton, he’s not going to amount to anything.
by methodrampage on Dec 10, 2008 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
guess shaun hill would be in that 1%...
oh, and the 49er/NFL scouts were oh-so-correct about alex smith what with all that college film and preseason performances…are you really making the argument that personnel people in the NFL are right 99% of the time when it comes to evaluating talent and/or that 99% of practice squaders don’t “amount to anything”? do i need to rattle off the litany of NFL starters who becan as practice squaders? actually, someone’s already done that.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 10, 2008 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Not amount to anything?
While I agree it’s hard to say whether he’ll amount to anything, to lay down such a blanket statement seems a little ridiculous. As Danny mentioned, plenty of players were practice squad types.
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by David Fucillo on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Wait a sec...
I’m not saying he should be starting…I’m saying give him a shot at the active roster. At this point he shouldn’t be the featured back ahead of foster should Gore not be able to go. But this is the end of the year and we are eliminated from the playoffs, so give him an oppurtinity to show what he can do against starters, give him the development. Yes, he has primarily been showcased against second and third stringers and he shouldn’t be hailed for his accomplishments in preseason but should that be held against him? No! And he hasn’t cracked the roster in my opinion because if he did, it would be as a third stringer to start out. But Hicks and Robinson were used and relied on heavily as special teams players so at that point they were more valuable to the active roster. And the fact that he hasn’t been signed by another team doesn’t mean anything. The broncos weren’t going to sign him and throw him in as a starter having no knowledge of their playbook or experience in their system . Tatum bell was a better temporary fit having played there recently. Next year they have Torrain, Hillis, Pittman, Young, Hall coming back. As far as Robinson goes, he is versatile, he can be used in different packages and is a great special teams player but could never become a feature back and shoudn’t be the short yardage/goaline back. He has proven this over the last two years with failed attempt and goal line fumbles. Is it a crime to be excited about potential young 49er drafted talent?
It's not a crime to be excited.
What gets me about this whole situation is that people seem to be so upset that Clayton is still sitting on the practice squad when hardly anyone was up in arms about Larry Grant being snagged by the Rams. Grant plays a position the 49ers could have used some depth in in the very near future (no guarantee guys like Lawson, Haralson, or Green will be back beyond their current contracts).
If I’m not mistaken, many people (at the beginning of the season) thought Grant would make the 53-man roster ahead of Clayton.
Yes, Clayton has potential, but what 21 to 25 year old running back doesn’t? They’re almost a dime a dozen. Right now the coaching staff still doesn’t think he’s ready. He’ll get his shot when he shows them he is ready (whenever that may be).
though i think you're right about the clayton hysteria...
…but correct me if i’m not mistaken…one HUUUUUGE difference between grant and clayton is that clayton actually led the NFL in preseason rush yds in 2007 and was 3rd this preseason. grant, on the other hand, had but 9 tackles (7 solo, 2 assisted) in his only preseason with the club. it’s one thing to say a guy plays awesomely only against 3rd-stringers; it’s quite another to say that a guy only plays decently against 3rd-stringers.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 10, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
excellent point about...
…an alternative reason for why clayton hasn’t cracked the roster yet. rather than it being because he’s “not going to amount to anything” or “not ready”, it could just as easily be that there are only x number of spots on the 53-man roster for RBs, and gore, robinson, and foster had to make it given that gore is the best runner, robinson is needed on special teams, and foster was given $2M to be gore’s backup. last year, it was the same situation basically: gore was the starter, robinson and hicks were needed on special teams, and keasey was needed at FB. i definitely agree that clayton’s situation has essentially been a numbers game now that you bring it up.
what’s probably the case is that nolan’s affinity for mediocre retreads (see w. harris, m. lewis, roman, etc.) forced mcloughan to go out and sign a mediocre retread (i.e., foster) to back up gore. foster’s signing doomed clayton to the PS this season. now that nolan’s gone, and because singletary has shown he is willing to get the young guys on the field (see rachal, baas, j. hill), clayton has an improved chance to get on the 53-man roster next season ahead of foster if singletary remains the head coach. i say, elevate clayton now and see what he has as gore’s backup. if he shows the goods, cut foster after the season. if not, then at least we found out the guy is a preseason wonder.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 10, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Uh.
Blaming Nolan for Foster is wrong. McCloughan became Nolan’s superior before that, right? The signing of Foster shows that the 49ers weren’t yet ready to give Clayton a roster spot.
you actually bought what they said...
…in re the power structure?
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 10, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think
That anybody has deemed him unworthy. Shaun Hill said it best at one point “There’s guys out on the street that can play in the NFL.” There’s many people under the radar who haven’t got their chance. I’m excited for Clayton, and I wanna see him.
let's see...
is 888 career carries too small of a sample size? he’s got a 3.8 career ypc with 10 td’s over 6 seasons of NFL ball. and how about the fact, in re “washed up” that his ypc has gone down each of the past 4 seasons (4.3, 4.0, 3.5, 2.1). i guess i’m just of the mind that i’d rather give a guy with potential a shot than languish with some re-tread guy who has consistntly shown exactly how mediocre he is (see foster’s 2005-2007 stats). interestingly, this is EXACTLY what carolina decided to do this year when they cut foster and drafted a young RB. it’s also mike shanahan’s RB philosophy. he’d rather have nobody undrafted/late-drafted guys wth potential as backup RBs because, when you lose your starting RB to injury, you’re usually done unless the backup has the potential to play to the level of the starter. in the 49ers case, clayton has that potential, foster doesn’t.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 10, 2008 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Some more links...
Here’s more about Singletary and his job status currently. (PressDemocrat.com)
Singletary is in no rush to name Shaun Hill the starter—just the same as the 49ers are in no rush to renew Singletary’s contract. God I hope somebody doesn’t take him away. (SacBee.com)
Jason Hill is improving—I’m glad, I like this guy. Here’s a good article about him. (49ers.com)
This isn’t about the Niners in particular, but the NFL. NFL is laying off 10 percent of workforce. (SacBee.com)
Go vote for Shaun Hill for the Fed Ex Air Player of the Week. NOW. (49ers.com)
Another article about Mike Singletary. Man, what are we waiting for? I think he deserves a chance. Resign him. (MercuryNews.com)
Singletary seems to be the only person not thinking Shaun Hill for next season. (PressDemocrat.com)
Make sure you give Mike Martz some credit. I’m not sure I like the guy, but he’s clearly done some good things. (MercuryNews.com)
think you mean...
…“re-sign him” here. i don’t want him to be “resigning” any time soon thank you. :-)
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Dec 9, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Great stuff from Vernon
According to Hill’s quote he said that the Jets were trying to provoke him into a penalty. He didn’t budge.
Good shit boy.
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Dec 9, 2008 4:30 PM PST reply actions
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