Does Shawntae Spencer deserve a little love?

by Fooch on Feb 13, 2008 10:15 PM PST in News Comment 25 comments

In the last couple of posts, I've noticed some intense discussion about the merits and/or lack there of, of Shawntae Spencer. First off, I'm using this picture because that hit on Jon Kitna was simply spectacular. A perfectly run corner blitz and he just blew up Jon Kitna.

Anyways, Spencer has been much maligned in his 4 seasons with the 49ers. Part of this is due to inconsistent performances and part of this is due to an injury bug that has grabbed hold of him. I was checking out his statistics and I wasn't shocked to see that each season he has missed more and more games going from 16 games played his rookie year to 15 to 13 to 11 this past season. I've always felt frustrated by these injury issues because I'm in the camp that thinks he's a solid cornerback that can make an important contribution, even if he'll never be a superstar. When the team went out and signed Nate Clements, combined with the emergence of Walt Harris, I was psyched to see ~~Clements~~ Spencer excel in the 3rd cornerback role. Instead he struggled before missing the last five games due to a quad injury, among other things.

Obviously he could be cut if the 49ers ever decide to simply move on, but in the meantime, he's locked up through 2012 in a deal that could (but I'm guessing will not) max out at $22 million. I'm not 100% sure, but it appears to be a 5 or 6 year deal. I've seen opinions on both sides of the fence in regards to Spencer and wanted to bring this to the front to get a little more discussion and try and get a better idea what the consensus opinion is. Scout's Inc had the following to say in their scouting report over at the WWL:

Spencer is long and athletic. He has excellent height and a wide wingspan. He has very quick feet and quick-twitch movement skills. He is smooth and fast in coverage. He has a fluid pedal and is effective moving forward or flipping his hips. He shows very good speed once he transitions. He covers a lot of ground and has very good recovery speed. His downfield ball skills have improved. He has learned to play the ball more than the receiver, and is knocking away more passes. He is most effective in press position. His toughness and confidence have improved dramatically. He has gotten better in run support and is more willing to throw his body around. He works to maintain outside leverage on ball carriers. But Spencer isn't a power player, and he needs more experience and technique work. He is a drag-down tackler who needs to wrap up and finish more consistently. He takes some false steps in transition and particularly needs to improve his reads in off coverage.

Considering he's entering his fifth year, it becomes a question of whether he'll ever gain consistency and avoid injuries, or if he's settled into a player type and that's that. I'd like to hope he could stay injury-free, but I used to think the same thing about A's pitcher Rich Harden and finally gave up hope. Walt Harris is no spring chicken, so the depth at corner will be key. I'd guess they could bring back Donald Strickland for a reasonable price, but Spencer is the guy that needs to step up at #3. Of course, there is also Tarell Brown who many of us are hoping will be a nice little sleeper from the 2007 draft. I would have no problem seeing a trio of Clements, Spencer and Brown anchoring the cornerback positions. So I guess this is more a post about the state of the corners in San Francisco. We know Nate Clements is just plain money. What about the eventual replacements for Walt Harris?

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Re. Spencer

Man that picture is awesome. Jon Kitna meet ~~176 gal. drum of whoop ass~~Shawntae Spencer.

I think he is a keeper at least for another year or two.

Bring back the YAC!

by jfainsf49 on Feb 14, 2008 7:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Walt Harris is fine.

If his play starts to slip this season and Brown and Spencer don't step up then CB can be addressed next off-season via draft or free agency. There are much more imminent needs than CB.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 14, 2008 7:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

President?

Walt Harris sounds presidential.

Bring back the YAC!

by jfainsf49 on Feb 14, 2008 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Fooch, something seems amiss

When the team went out and signed Nate Clements, combined with the emergence of Walt Harris, I was psyched to see Clements excel in the 3rd cornerback role. Instead he struggled before missing the last five games due to a quad injury, among other things.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 14, 2008 8:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

corrected

Thanks for the heads up.

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by Fooch on Feb 14, 2008 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Feel free to delete my comment.

I know I'd want to cover my tracks.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 14, 2008 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Happy to repeat myself

I'm a huge Spencer fan. I may be a bigger Spencer fan than I am an Arnaz Battle fan, and I'm a pretty damn big Arnaz Battle fan.

But to make my point, I'll never mistake Spencer for a top corner in the league. As polished as he is, none of his skills are quite top level. He doesn't have a nose for the big play, doesn't rack up many INTs, isn't a fearsome tackler, and occasionally gets burned long. I don't like the prospect of seeing him line up against most of the league's elite receivers, but I'm more than comfortable letting him handle the next step down.

While he's not a fantastic player, he does most everything right. His footwork is very polished, he's strong in man coverage, he makes good wrap tackles, and he's fast enough to stay with most receivers. He doesn't make picks but he does play the ball and knock a lot of passes down. He makes very few mistakes in coverage and stays away from penalties.

What I really like about Spencer is that he's soft-spoken, he's professional, he respects the game, he works hard, he accepts promotions and demotions with equal levels of class, and never wains in his effort on the field. He is the consumate ballplayer. He is the defensive version of Arnaz Battle. A very good #2 guy, and a fantastic #3 guy.

But he's not particularly strong or big and he can find himself overmatched from time to time because of it.

So just keep him away from the #1 guys, and he'll always give you what you want, if in an unspectacular way.

The injuries, of course, are the larger concern. None of us want to have a less talented Ahmed Plummer on our hands. If injuries keep getting in the way it will be unfortunate, but it will be unavoidable that Spencer won't have value to the team over the course of a season. If he can stay away from injuries (like I hope he can), he's an extremely valuable, highly underrated corner.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 14, 2008 9:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

well put

I agree with all this. I think he's a solid #3 corner, and a decent #2. We should keep him and hope he stays healthy.

Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Feb 14, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Spencer in the "Big Nickel"?

I agree with HowTheyScored. Spencer is as good a #2 as we can reasonably expect and an outstanding #3. Plus he's a good guy to have on the team because he works hard and stays out of trouble.

Speaking of 3rd corners, has anyone been following Kevin Lynch's "Big Nickel" thread on the Turf Blog? It's interesting. He's toying with the idea of the nickel the 9ers ran ran against the Seahawks as a base defense. It seems inevitable that some teams will start running defenses with an extra DB because the "spread" offense has crept its way from college to the pros.

How do you think Spencer (and the rest of the personnel, for that matter) fits into the nickel?

by Nineraguan on Feb 14, 2008 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

correction

The Chron used to run the Turf Blog, now it's the Niner Insider.

by Nineraguan on Feb 14, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I have seen it

for the past three days. I think it's time to talk about something else.

To answer your question. We have the guys for the nickel package. Of course we need one or two key additions to the defense.

DT- Douglas, McDonald
DT- Franklin, Sopoaga
DT- draft, free agent, or no upgrade :(
LB- Lawson
LB- Willis
LB- upgrade via FA, Smith, TBC, Ulbrich, Moore,
CB- Clements
CB- Harris
CB- Spencer
FS- Roman
SS- Lewis

Put these guys out there in whatever formation. Just bring the heat and keep the opponents guessing.

=Champioship.

Bring back the YAC!

by jfainsf49 on Feb 14, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

errrrr.....

of course I mean championship.

Bring back the YAC!

by jfainsf49 on Feb 14, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm Just not Convinced

As the commentor that first questioned the wisdom of keeping Shawntae Spencer as the 3rd corner I feel obligated to defend my position against this out pouring of support.

First I want to point out that all three of the Niner's division opponents all sport above average 3rd receivers.

St. Louis - Drew Bennett
Seattle - Bobby Engram, DJ Hackett, Nate Burleson (depending on who you think the starters are).
Arizona - Bryant Johnson, Jerheme Urban, Steve Breaston.

This shows, as others have suggested, that CB depth is at a premium. I think to be competitive in today's NFC West and the NFL generally a defense needs three starting caliber CBs. I think Spencer has some potential and I admit that I shouldn't have suggested the Niners cut him from the team. Obviously he has some skill. However, I don't know how people can suggest that he could be a #2 CB right now. Ignoring his durability issues, Spencer had 3 Passes Defended this however, after looking through the game logs for the 10 games he played and he also had two pass interference penalties for more than 30 yards a piece and another Illegal contact penalty on a 3rd and 2. This has been my problem with Spencer and the other depth we have at CB. Time after time on 3rd down team just spread us out and pick on our third or fourth DB because they didn't hold up against their 3rd and 4th WR. This doesn't even count the numerous other times on 2nd or 3rd and long that Spencer gave up just enough yards for the team to get a first down.

Its always nice to say "so and so works hard and goes about his business very professionally so he has earned a right to be at this position or that position" but at some point you have to say hey the results aren't there and we need to try someone new. I think Spencer has a place on this team but I think it is more along the lines of 4th CB and a special teams ace.

With all that said getting more pressure on the QB will make cedrtainly make life easier on the secondary. However, my assessment of Spencer assumes that the pass rush isn't going to improve that much. If suddenly we get after the QB like the '85 Bears or this years Giants maybe I might be more inclined to agree that Spencer can serve as an adequate 3rd CB.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 14, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Here we go again.

As far as Arizona is concerned, Johnson is a free agent and I seriously doubt they match what he's likely to receive in the free agent market. Urban isn't an above average 3rd WR and Breaston is strictly a kick returner. Hackett is a free agent also and I don't think Burleson is that much better than an average #3 WR. So you're initial point is wrong. Maybe Seattle, if they bring Hackett back, and St. Louis have above average #3 WR but Arizona does not.

Secondly, who cares if people think Spencer can play the #2 corner or not? That's not going to be his role next year and he is an above average #3 corner.

Again, a lot of our coverage problems can be attributed to the lack of a pass rush. A crazy pass rush will make even the shoddiest secondary look solid while an impotent pass rush will make the most astute secondary look inept. If a QB has all day to pass a WR will get open, it's as simple as that.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 14, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

this makes me wonder

does anyone keep stats about completions allowed? I mean, I don't know if that can even be judged because cover schemes are so complex and they often involve zones, but does FO or anybody have that kind of stat?

Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Feb 15, 2008 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The secondary

The secondary crew is just fine as it is (maybe we could use one more quality guy for some depth), we just need to put more pressure on opposing quarterbacks.

by jaytierney on Feb 14, 2008 9:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Zach Thomas??????

He would be a nolan guy..... mentor for PW (i know he doesnt need one)...... and if we can get a short term, not so expensive deal with him that would be awesome...... he's got some playing days still in him and derek smith sucks

by Qbgetter13 on Feb 15, 2008 6:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

No thanks

I'd rather take a chance on Dan Morgan, who'll be infinitely cheaper.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 15, 2008 7:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

concussion?

Dan Morgan has serious injury problems though... dont believe he's played a full season since his rookie year and has had a kazillion concussions....... thomas is ready to go tomorrow.

by Qbgetter13 on Feb 15, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't care.

Thomas played 5 games last season and is going to be 35, his smallish-for-a-LB-body is probably wearing down. So he'd be just as much of an injury risk as Morgan and isn't most, if not all, of the time he missed this last season from a concussion? I'm fine with Brandon Moore playing ILB opposite of Willis.

Also, this is from Rotoworld:

Zach will most likely be playing for a team that was in the playoffs," the agent said, indicating Thomas may retire if he can't latch on with a top team. Thomas appears to be past the migraines that plagued him in 2007 for now.

In case you didn't know, we failed to make the playoffs last season.

Honestly, I swear you guys see a big name, get a little chubby in the pants, and impulsively think that <insert free agent with recognizable name> would be a perfect fit, no matter what. See the thing is, the Niners as a team are still a project, nearing the end of the "rebuilding" stages, if you will, and do not need a 35 year old linebacker in the least bit.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 15, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

On that note...

The Falcons released Alge Crumpler (among others, including Leftwich), oh oh oh <I'm almost hyperventilating>, he'd be perfect.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 15, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

crumpler or leftwich

Are you talking about Crumpler or leftwich would be perfect??? I'm assuming Crumpler. I was actually going to put up a post later today (after my 2pm midterm) discussing Crumpler.

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by Fooch on Feb 15, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sarcasim

I was being sarcastic about Crumpler being perfect, but my sarcasm seems be lost on the toneless internets. However, Leftwich, if he could be acquired with a Raider/Culpepper-esque 1 year deal, intriques me a little but that's probably because I'm a Smith hater.

Let me be pre-emtive regarding Algernon. We do not want. He's fat, out of shape, lazy, slowing down, on the wrong side of 30, and a staunch Vick supporter. Don't get me wrong he's been a viable red zone threat for many years but I doubt he has much left in the tank.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 15, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the point

See I thought the point of this site was to discuss possibilities for the team and have an open discussion about them. Sorry but not everybody is going to agree with you all the time Braekneck. Get over it. Personally I think signing either Thomas or Morgan is a bad idea, but thats not the point. If someone wants to make a case for one of them so be it. Its not like all of your views are always the most thought out. I mean you don't think we should do anything at receiver yet every draft expert I have seen says its our number one or two need. As far as I can tell you are the only one that gets angy anytime someone disagrees with you. Maybe you weren't hugged as a child. I don't know.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 16, 2008 8:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not angry

I'm just this intense in every aspect of my life, sorry if you can't handle it. I've got no problem with you guys living in a dream world, talking about things that have zero chance of happening. I just get a little disappointed when people throw nonsense out there without thinking about it a little bit. I mean seriously what would Thomas do for us? He's like 35 and this team is at least two years away from seriously competing.

I do think our WR corp is fine as is and I wouldn't have a problem if the Niners drafted a WR in the first as long as it isn't Manningham but everybody thinks a rookie WR is going to step right in and produce, which just isn't going to happen. With that in mind, I think it would behoove Nolan and Martz to address other needs in the draft and make a play for a WR on the free agent market because they need to win now. Personally, and I may be a little selfish, but I want to see them win now.

Also, if these draft "experts" are so good why aren't they working as a GM or some kind of draft consultant? Probably because they're not as good as they think they are. Do they know more than me? Probably, but they are far from being the end-all-be-all authority on all things NFL draft.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 16, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs