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It's NFL Combine Time


This Wednesday, the NFL continues the road to the NFL Draft as the meat market that is the NFL Combine begins.  With no games to cover, the NFL Network has taken to broadcasting quite a bit from the NFL Combine.  If you've got some free time or a TiVo you can certainly watch 40 yard dashes, shuttle runs and cone drills to your hearts content.  The Combine has become a prime opportunity for players to raise their draft stock.  Of course there are plenty of players who have hurt their stock thanks to a poor 40-time so that's worth keeping an eye on.  The key is not getting too excited about a solid Combine performance.  I still find it ridiculous how excited teams will get about a great 40 time when it's in shorts and a t-shirt.  Has anybody ever wondered why they don't have them run the 40 in full football gear?

As we gear up for the Combine, nfl.com has put together some information describing the value of the various drills:

40-yard dash: The 40-yard dash is one of the most popular drills at the combine as tenths of a second can greatly affect a player's future. Players are timed in 10, 20, and 40 yard increments to see how quickly they explode off the line and how quickly they reach the top speed.

Bench press: The bench press, quite simply, is a test of strength in which players bench press 225 pounds as many times as possible.

Vertical jump: Players stand flat-footed in front of a pole that has plastic flags sticking out of it. Players jump from a standing position and try to swat as many of those flags as they can.

Broad jump: Like the vertical jump, the broad jump is done from a standing position, but this drill measures how far a player can jump.

3 cone drill: Players start in a 3-point stance in front of three cones that are set up in a triangle or L shape, with each cone five yards apart. They then sprint five yards to one cone, sprint back to the starting cone, and head back to the second cone where they run around it and cut right to the third cone. The players then run a circle around the third cone from the inside to the outside and run around the second cone before returning to the first cone.

20-yard drill: The 20-yard shuttle is designed to test lateral speed and coordination. The player starts in a three-point stance. When the whistle blows, the players run five yards to one side, touching the yard line. They then sprints 10 yards in the other direction and again touch the yard line, at which point they sprint back to the yard line they started from.

60-yard shuttle: The only difference between the 60-yard shuttle and the 20-yard shuttle is that instead of running five yards, 10 yards then five yards, the players run 10 yards to one side, then back 20 yards and then 10 yards to the starting point.

Also, if you are interested, nfl.com has a Scouting Combine widget you can add through Facebook, My Space and a variety of other sites.

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The Combine...
Know what they really need at this thing?  Maybe test some skills that actually apply to being able to play football!  Just a thought.  Don't get me wrong, speed and strength are important, but overall the combine's emphasis is ridiculous.

by jaytierney on Feb 18, 2008 10:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The College Season...
"Maybe test some skills that actually apply to being able to play football!"

I'm pretty sure the college season tests their skills that actually apply to being able to play football.  Granted the combine is pretty lame, as a whole, and I think it's somewhat of a crutch for GMs but it does serve a purpose.  There's no simulation that can replicate in-game speed, decisions, agility, etc. outside of actual game time.  But with all that said, I personally think, the combine is overrated.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 18, 2008 10:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

combine purpose
I can't find the article now but I was reading a story earlier today interviewing some personnel people from now and in the past.  

Apparently the combine was created for the physical examination and the drills and psychological exams all came later.  That makes sense that you know what a guy can do on the field and just want to see if there are any bumps, bruises or other injuries that wouldn't be seen otherwise.

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by Fooch on Feb 18, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The combine is worthwhile
I think that the combine is actually pretty worthwhile for a couple of reasons, and neither of them really have to do with the specific drills that are run. I'll get to that in a minute.

As the drills themselves go, it is a little silly but it's not completely useless. The 40 time is obviously the most overrated drill, but you can take something pretty tangible about a player's physical aptitude from each of these tests strictly in terms of strength, agility, speed, and jumping. The reason this isn't completely worthless should be painfully obvious. The NFL, as opposed to college, is a league made up almost entirely of serious physical specimens. It's a league in which, more than in any other sport in the world, not being able to match up physically can trump any degree of innate talent that a particular player might have. The drills have nothing to do with football skills, but they do actually have a lot to do with professional football if you are trying to evaluate how the football skills that you've been scouting all college season might be able to translate physically to the professional level.

So no, the combine will absolutely not tell you how a guy will play football. But if you've seen how a guy plays football, it will help you evaluate how those skills will translate.

Even that can get to the depths of silliness, though, and we all have our Druckenmiller's in the closet as a shining testament to that. So all that stuff I said above, I don't think it's the real important part. I think it's helpful to scouting, but I agree that even rationalized the way I do it, the thing is definitely overrated as the ultimate "skills test."

I think the true value lies in two places. The first place is that for a lot of players (not the Glenn Dorseys or the Darren McFaddens, mind you) the combine is the first place that most teams can actually see and scout them first-hand. And first-hand scouting is often the most important aspect of scouting. It's one thing to see a height and weight on paper, and one thing to see what a guy looks like on film, but it's a whole different thing to be able to see the build, the cut, and the size of a player first-hand, to be able to talk to that player or watch how he conducts himself between drills or with his peers or with coaches, to see how he takes directions, to watch how he reacts to a good or a bad showing. Scouts can take a hell of a lot out of these players between drills just by actually being able to see them, and I think that's where most of the value of the combine comes into play. The other part I referenced is that the combine is a good way to gauge a player's work ethic. To see how a guy has prepared himself for the combine, how he's physically trained, how dedicated he's been to getting into the best scouting shape possible, to see how hard you can expect this player to work for you when you have drafted him. You can see if a guy comes to the combine out of shape or unprepared (Maurice Clarret, for instance, though he had plenty of other things wrong with him too) that he's probably not going to bring his best to the weight room, to weekly practices, to the film room. You can get a good idea of how hard a guy will work for you based on what you see when he comes to the combine.

And I think those things are the most important parts. The drills are, really, secondary, and only cause real problems when they seriously call into question a players raw physical ability to compete with professional players.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 11:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

By the way
Point of comical interest: I couldn't remember Maurice Clarett's name, so I did a Google search for "broncos draft running back." His name didn't come up at all, so I just added the word "overweight" to my search query, and he came up as the first hit.
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That explains a lot
It's one thing to see a height and weight on paper, and one thing to see what a guy looks like on film, but it's a whole different thing to be able to see the build, the cut, and the size of a player first-hand

So that's why the Kelly Washington's and [hopefully to an extreme lesser extent] Vernon Davis' get drafted so high, because they look so hot with their shirts off.

By the way maybe the Niners should have conducted a more in depth examination of the size of Alex Smith's first hand.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 18, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The public doesn't hear about it
But it's all part of the highly anticipated "Swimsuit" Drill, also known as the Wonderlickable Test. The scouts go crazy for it. Only the talent competition draws a bigger crowd.
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad...
Washington and Davis weren't in the same draft class, I bet they could have done a killer rendition of "You Got It (The Right Stuff)".
Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 18, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Trouble
The trouble that I have with the combine is that the players spend all their time leading up to it trying to improve the somewhat "Football" irrelevant drills.  I agree that the combine can help show how well a player's physical attributes project to the NFL "standard."  But how helpful is it when the player spends all his time focusing on training that is specific to a certain event when once he gets to the NFL he will be doing more general workouts.  For example, the 40 yard dash may show a Linemans athletism but if he spends his training trying to increase his 40 time when once he gets to the NFL the training will be significantly different.  Thereby losing whatever marginal gain he may have had gotten in combine 40 time.  

I feel like I may have been rambling so I going to stop now and see if what I just said makes any sense.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 18, 2008 11:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

40 yard dash
has little to do with "athleticism", it's a pure speed drill and obviously a pure speed drill is less important to the assessment of a lineman than say a pure strength drill like bench press (even though bench press is a retarded lift).  The opposite can be said about WR, nobody gives a damn about their bench press relative to their 40 yard dash.
Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 18, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you sure you are not an NFL scout?
First, obviously different positions are focused on different drills, and some drills will mean more for different positions.  However, I disagree that when you are talking about positions where speed is not as important that the 40 isn't used more for a measure of athletisim than for point A to Point B speed.  In the case of a OL, if he plods down the lane there isn't a scout that is going to say "Oh no he is to slow."  Instead they are interested in how the prospects looks running that 40 yards.

Second, my comment stems from an article I read about Tommy Blake the troubled DE out of TCU.  It was discussing how out of shape he is and how he is training with certain goals for each event and it occured to me what is the purpose if this guy turns around and balloons back up once the combine or the TCU pro day is over.  

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 18, 2008 8:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fast does not equal athletic
I know a ton of track athletes that are incredibly un-athletic.  You put them on a track and they'll run circles around you.  You put them on a football field or a basketball court and they're tripping over your feet.  Running in a straight line does nothing to show a players agility, balance, body control, amoung other trait which would demonstrate a players "athleticism", all it shows is how fast a player can pick 'em up and put 'em down.

Maybe I don't know much about football but how often does a OL run 40 yards on a given play?  At most you're looking for explosion off the ball and maybe a 5-10 yard burst if your pulling but nobody gives a damn how fast a OL is at running 40 yards.

As far as your conspiracy theory goes, I'm pretty sure NFL scouts have a pretty good idea about who are the guys with troubled pasts, weight problems, motivation problems, etc. and I doubt a 0.1 second increase in his 40 time is going to do anything to alleviate those already existing concerns.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 19, 2008 7:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where's NewEraScouting when you need him?
Oh yeah....
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 12:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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