Derek Smith waived

by jfainsf49 on Feb 19, 2008 2:14 PM PST

EDITOR'S NOTE 2:10PM - Thanks to both jfainsf49 and JoeDontLoseSuperBowls for posting diaries about the waiving of Derek Smith. I've decided to combine them together for a general discussion. MM has a solid article about Smith's time in San Francisco. Even with his struggles the last couple of years, Smith was a consummate pro who undoubtedly provided Patrick Willis with one hell of an education about being a linebacker in the NFL. The 49ers could not have asked for any more from him when he first arrived as a free agent. Even when the team struggled he didn't complain but simply produced as best he knew how.

If the 49ers can bring him back cheap I'd have no problem with that considering the veteran leadership he could provide. Otherwise, I certainly wish him the best of luck going forward.

Well folks the curtain has closed on Derek Smith's career as a 49er. According to http://www.sfgate.com/sports/49ers/, Smith has been let go.

I don't like to see players go. But with Smith's decline in productivity over the last couple of years, I would have to agree with this move.

I can't wait to see how this plays out.

Any thoughts? Will the Niners now draft another linebacker to play next to Willis? Or will they hit the free agent market?

P.S. I figure this could have gone in as a comment in the Free Agency diary, but I wanted to throw up a poll.

JoeDontLoseSuperBowl Diary: Thanks you for grooming the next Ray Lewis. Thank you for all the 120+ tackle seasons. Thank you for playing a couple season ago with essentially one good eye. Have fun winning a Super Bowl with the Patriots next year (you know Belichek is going to want him).

Poll

Who will replace Derek Smith?

other free agent

3 votes

other draft pick

1 votes

guy already on the roster

10 votes

Zach Thomas

3 votes

Lance Briggs

9 votes

Kawika Mithchell

2 votes

1st round draft pick

1 votes

2nd round draft pick

2 votes

31 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

0 recs | Comment 28 comments

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quotation from Nolan

"Derek has been an important member of the 49ers," coach Mike Nolan said. "You don't make these kinds of decisions without battling the emotion that is natural when you are dealing with a player that has done so much for your organization. We made the decision because we have quality linebackers who we think are the future of the 49ers. Derek was a model professional, and he influenced a lot of the younger players with his work ethic."

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Feb 19, 2008 2:29 PM PST 0 recs

Inside LB

I still think that Brandon Moore can still start next to Willis, if he wants to. It seems that motivation has been a factor with him. When he's been motivated, he's been great.

With that said, I would be surprised if the 49ers didn't sign Lance Briggs. He's from Sacramento and is only 27 years old (turns 28 in Nov.) He's exactly the type of guy the 49ers like to target as free agents (think Nate Clements), though I'm sure Nolan will want to check out his character after what happened after last season. Mitchell fits that mold, too, but he's an East Coast/Florida guy, so I don't know if he'd come out west (think Adalius Thomas).

Also, the 49ers aren't one ILB away from making the playoffs so I don't see them going after an older guy like Thomas who probably only has one maybe two good years left and is likely just a reserve at this point.

And even if they don't sign a good FA ILB, I don't think ILB is as a great a need for the 49ers than are several other positions (WR, OLB/DE, DT, O-Line). The 49ers probably would draft a ILB if he was at the top of their board during the later rounds, but I don't see them taking one on day 1 of the draft without it being a total no-brainer/steal.

In any event, Smith was a good 49er and a true professional and I wish him the best of luck.

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Feb 19, 2008 3:29 PM PST 0 recs

Couple of things

So you think the Niners will sign Briggs to play ILB? I'll be rather dissapointed if they do. He's basically a Tampa-2 LB, think Cato June, and he's not all that. I doubt the Niners will be willing to match what ever offer the Redskins are probably going to put on the table.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 19, 2008 3:48 PM PST up 0 recs

I agree he doesn't necessarily fit our system

but I think the 49ers will try to make him fit it...or go back to the 4-3, which I don't think is out of the question.

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Feb 19, 2008 8:11 PM PST up 0 recs

I can't imagine a 4-3

There's no way the Niners transition back to the 4-3 while Nolan is still around, there's a better chance they'd completely cut ties with Alex Smith prior to the start of the season. And there's definitely no way they'd ever consider making the change because of a free agent. Briggs is not a player you set the whole organization back for. He's a solid LB but he's not all that.

If the Niners do sign Briggs I've got to think that it's because Nolan has got some master plan on how to utilize him because on paper, for the lack of a better phrase, he doesn't fit a 3-4. I have my doubts about the Niners interest and the impact that Briggs would provide but one would hope that Nolan has a better idea of what he's doing than I do.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 19, 2008 8:45 PM PST up 0 recs

Nolan's Interest

"...on paper, for the lack of a better phrase, he doesn't fit a 3-4."

Obviously Nolan thinks he does fit in the 3-4, considering they tried to trade for him after last year. I still think he has the speed to play OLB in the 3-4. Another thought is moving Moore out to OLB. He did a nice job of getting after the passer two years ago so maybe he could work at OLB. Although I think he would be a liability in dropping back for pass coverage.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 19, 2008 8:52 PM PST up 0 recs

Seriously do you watch football [at all]?

Obviously Nolan thinks he does fit in the 3-4, considering they tried to trade for him after last year.
How do you know this, did you meet Nolan for dinner and drinks? Oh, you mean last year, before we drafted Willis. Gotcha. Now it wouldn't make much sense to sign a big name LB to play next to Willis as a 3-4 ILB now would it?

I still think he has the speed to play OLB in the 3-4.
I don't think anyone has been questioning Briggs' speed, his size [or lack their of] is much more of a concern, in my opinion.

He did a nice job of getting after the passer two years ago so maybe he could work at OLB.
Two years ago? You mean in '05 when he had a career high 2.0 sacks? You're right he does an impressive job at getting to the quarterback. Briggs has 5.5 career sacks. If I'm paying top dollar to sign a free agent OLB I want a proven track record of being a legitimate pass rusher. Sorry 1.1 sacks per year just doesn't do it for me. I'd also like a LB that knows the 3-4 system and not a Cover 2 OLB.

Although I think he would be a liability in dropping back for pass coverage.

Briggs is one of the best pass coverage LB in the NFL, typically Cover 2 LB are quite adept at pass coverage. Below is an exert from Scout.com:

Over the last 3 seasons, he has the most interceptions returned for touchdowns (3) of any linebacker in the NFL and only one player has more (Darren Sharper, GB-MIN, 4). Only NFL player to return an interception for a TD in each of the last 3 seasons and no other linebacker in NFL history has returned a pick for a score in each of his first 3 campaigns.

Sounds likes he's pretty proficent in the passing game to me.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 20, 2008 7:23 AM PST up 0 recs

Yikes

This is why you shouldn't fly off the handle at every little thing. When you do, and you're completely wrong, you look like a jackass.

First, the Niners were trying to trade for Briggs at the trade deadline but got stuck due to some odd rules of the franchise tag:

Trade for Briggs

The fact is Nolan tried to trade for him so he must think he can fit into our scheme.

As for the part about getting to the passer and dropping back into coverage, Wader was talking about Moore, not Briggs. When the blood rushes to your head so easily, it must be difficult to read.

We are not who I thought we were.

by marcello on Feb 20, 2008 1:00 PM PST up 0 recs

Excuse me

Oh no, marcello thinks I made myself look like an ass on the internets. What ever should I do?

Maybe you should read what I've already written:

"If the Niners do sign Briggs I've got to think that it's because Nolan has got some master plan on how to utilize him"

I've already acknowledged that Nolan must think there's a spot in the Niners 3-4 for Briggs. Who knows maybe Nolan wants to make this team more of a 3-4/4-6 hybrid. The bottomline is their aren't many 3-4 OLB as small as Briggs.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 20, 2008 1:18 PM PST up 0 recs

Thanks Marcello

Its nice to see that some of the people who respond to messages actually take time to read the entire comment and take a second to think about it before they respond rather than wildly mischaracterizing the comments and flying off the handle. Unfortunately not everyone has the time for your kind of rational thought.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 21, 2008 11:23 AM PST up 0 recs

Remember Your Blood Pressure

Let me clarify something that I guess you are confused about my comments. The Moore I was refering to is Brandon Moore. I am not sure which Moore you are refering to 2.0 sacks in 2005, B. Moore led the team in sacks in '06 with 6.5 and led the team in tackle all while starting only 1/2 to 3/4 of the season after D. Smith went down. As for your other comments I am not going to even dignify them with a response considering I think Marcello addressed what an idiot you came across as.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 21, 2008 11:32 AM PST up 0 recs

It's obvious I was talking about Briggs

You see, my whole post was about Briggs, which should be pretty obvious because he's the only player referenced in that post. Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension as well. However, I'm sorry if a simpleton like myself gets confused time to time from a post, that started in a thread about Smith being released and who will replace him, that then talks about Briggs playing ILB and then for some reason starts discussing Brandon Moore playing OLB, which has nothing to the ILB void left by Smith or aforementioned Briggs.

But for as nonsensical as most of your comments I'll give it to you that you are pretty funny. I mean you saying that I look like an idiot after you claimed that the 40 yard dash was an excellent measuring stick for an offensive lineman's athletic ability, too funny. Keep up the good work.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 21, 2008 12:17 PM PST up 0 recs

More Mischaracterization...

of my comments, but why would I expect anything else from you.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 21, 2008 12:47 PM PST up 0 recs

Mischaracterization?

However, I disagree that when you are talking about positions where speed is not as important that the 40 isn't used more for a measure of athletisim than for point A to Point B speed. In the case of a OL, if he plods down the lane there isn't a scout that is going to say "Oh no he is to slow." Instead they are interested in how the prospects looks running that 40 yards.

We all know my reading comprehension apparently needs some work, but this seems, to a simpleton like myself, pretty cut and dry. Your comment says that scouts are interested in watching how an OL looks running 40 yards because they will use it in their assessment of how athletic he is. Does it not?

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 21, 2008 1:05 PM PST up 0 recs

You are Making My Point

Where in the above post did I say that the 40 is an "excellent" indication of an OL's athletisim. My point was that pure speed is not the only thing they look at in the 40. I used the example of how the person looks running as an one thing they may look at. Another thing is does the person explode off the line or does it take him awhile to get up to speed. I never said that the 40 is the premier event to determine "athletisim." Obviously, other drills like the shuttles are better measures. My only point is that with OL the actual speed isn't that important. As you said yourself "how often does OL have to run 40 yards on a single play?" So to answer your question, Yes you are mischaracterizing my comment to say that I think the 40 is an "excellent" judge of athletisim when I didn't even say it was good judge of it. The 40 is the least useful drill for OL but that doesn't mean they don't pay attention to more than just the time.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 21, 2008 1:26 PM PST up 0 recs

You're hopeless

Nice backpedaling, from which I can tell that you frequent the Waffle House.

My point was that pure speed is not the only thing they look at in the 40. I used the example of how the person looks running as an one thing they may look at. Another thing is does the person explode off the line or does it take him awhile to get up to speed.
Nobody gives a damn what an OL looks like when he's running the 40. You've failed to mention why they would. Nobody cares how long it takes an OL to get to full speed either. Here you've also failed to mention why they would. If you want to talk explosion, the vertical and broad jumps are better tests than the 40.

My only point is that with OL the actual speed isn't that important.
No, that was my point from the original thread, the 40 is the least important test for lineman. But you came back with you're comment about how they can judge athleticism by watching them run the 40. Now you're backtracking and saying that other drills are more relevant for measuring athleticism and claiming that the 40 is obsolete for that purpose. Why would a scout waste his time watching an OL run the 40 when there are more relevant drills to determine athleticism? They wouldn't, but by you saying that they would your insinuating that the 40 is a viable means of measuring athleticism which it is not.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 21, 2008 3:43 PM PST up 0 recs

Briggs and [Justin] Smith

Rotoworld had the following:

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat's Matt Maiocco "fully expects" the 49ers to show interest in free agent DE Justin Smith.

The Niners got away with an undersized right end in Marques Douglas the past three seasons, so Smith could work at 6'4/274. Smith is likely to command a six- or seven-year deal including over $15 million in guarantees.

If this is true I very serious doubt the Niners are in the running for Briggs. I could see the Niners signing Smith, eventhough he's a litter smallish for a 3-4, and then grouping him with a larger OLB on his side. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 20, 2008 1:01 PM PST up 0 recs

never say never

it isn't just because of Briggs. The team needs a very good NT and good DTs to play the 3-4 and they not have the horses on the line to do that right now. I'm not saying they're going to, but practical considerations may intervene in the master plan.

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Feb 20, 2008 6:51 PM PST up 0 recs

Consider this

Transitions take time. The defense is improving and a transition back to a 4-3, at this moment in time, is only going to set the defense and the team back. The 3-4 was Nolan's master plan and he's going to stick to it because basically he's got nothing to lose. If it doesn't work he's fired, if he switches to a 4-3 the defense will suffer and he'll get fired. Basically he's pot committed.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 21, 2008 7:17 AM PST up 0 recs

actually, the 49ers use both 4-3 and 3-4

The 49ers use 3-4 and 4-3 interchangeably, so McCloughan does not look for a certain player to fit a scheme. He's just trying to find the best players. (This is consistent with what he has said in the past.)

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/default.asp?item=813610&mode=

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Feb 22, 2008 10:58 PM PST up 0 recs

I've read the article

And Nolan goes on to state that a 3-4 transitions more easily to 4-3 than a 4-3 to a 3-4. So obviously Nolan's take on the situation is a little different.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 23, 2008 12:25 PM PST up 0 recs

He was

very, very under-appreciated.

Merton Hanks, 'nuff said.

by jtoj on Feb 19, 2008 3:48 PM PST 0 recs

my opinion:

Brandon Moore wouldn't work. He can't start alongside Willis, because he doesn't fit that role. 2 years ago, he played pretty well...but did so in the role that P.Willy now possesses. For Moore to excel, or even hold his own in the 3-4 scheme we currently employ, he would have to REPLACE Willis - which isn't going to happen.

In the 3-4, obviously, there are two middle linebackers. One of them is a tackler, a roamer, and a ballhawk. The other, much like the nose tackle, is resigned to hitting holes and occupying blockers. Derek Smith was amazing at this last year, and his performance played a large role in Willis' statistical breakout.

What we will most likely see is Jeff Ulbrich, who Nolan has always been very high on, step into the position held by Derek Smith last year. A MLB-type is likely to be drafted late, but expect Ulbrich to be your starter opposite no.52 on opening day next year.

Which is a move I'm okay with, though I'd have rather held onto Smith.

by shleckothegecko on Feb 19, 2008 9:02 PM PST 0 recs

ILB

The problem with signing a FA at ILB is that they will will play second fiddle to a sophomore... Zach Thomas isnt going to (want to) leave the field on nickle calls.

Lance Briggs i believe is a better ILB than OLB in a 3-4. I believe he would do a great job but he also would not want to leave the field on nickle. Maybe he could bump to outside in nickle but that would be a lot of learning..... not very likely. I would however take him as an OLB even though he's not ideal size.

I'm a big Moore fan and would love to see him play next to Willis. Anyone could do what Smith did. You have to have someone decent so Willis doesnt start getting killed. Moore can play it if he sticks to his role and to say he can't is beyond my understanding.

I believe Ulbrich is a warrior and a great special teams wall breaker. I believe he could also do ok beside Willis although i'd rather see Moore.

With that said i think we will draft a middle round ILB to play beside Willis eventually..... Bell, Leman, Moffit, Goff, Wheeler.

WE ARE BETTER OFF SWITCHING TO A 4-3....(i know this is not likely under Nolan)..... Willis can play the middle and we can draft guys that actually play OLB.... the thing that hurts the 3-4 the most is trying to hit on these undersized DEs to play OLB.......

......and we are having problems hitting. Lawson was drafted off speed and might be able to cover but he's not drafted for that as much as he was for pass rush, which there has been little to none from him.

Haralson can bring heat but cant cover

Banta-Cain doesn't do anything that great.....

Jay Moore still in the air.....

DEs have to be a lot bigger and dont need to really pass rush... DTs have to be huge

at the end of the day you're looking for players to do something they've never done.... in order for the D to work you have to have aninmal OLB that can get to the QB (ie ravens and steelers)

by Qbgetter13 on Feb 19, 2008 10:08 PM PST 0 recs

This is enough to make me sick

"WE ARE BETTER OFF SWITCHING TO A 4-3"

No we're not. Last year was the first year that Nolan and Co. fully committed to the 3-4 and the defense is in transition. Some of the best defenses in the NFL run a 3-4 so there's nothing inherently wrong with the scheme but just like with all transitions they don't happen overnight. The defense was improved last year and I can only imagine it getting better as the Niners continue to acquire the pieces for the 3-4, afterall this is Nolan's bread and butter if he can't implement a 3-4 he has no business being a head coach, let alone a defensive coordinator.

By making a switch back to the 4-3 they'd set themselves back 3-4 years as we're currently carrying more 3-4 personnel than 4-3 personnel so you'd be talking about revamping alomst the whole roster.

Isn't it a little premature to start judging and writing off Lawson? He's only started 14 games in his career and he's still averaging more sacks per season than Briggs.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 20, 2008 7:49 AM PST up 0 recs

OK.......

I dont want to flat out make you sick so let me explain this to you a little more...... first of all i realize that nolan ran a very sick version of the 3-4 that got him a ring and i am also aware that some of the best defenses in the league run the 3-4.

Let me start out with some statements then elaborate

1)Secondary doesnt change
2)Willis is our MLB in both schemes
3)Any 3-4 NT can be a 4-3 DT.... all the OLB that we drafted under the 3-4 scheme played DE in college.
4)The talent pool to draw from in the draft is extremely narrowed when drafting DTs, OLBs, and DEs for a 3-4.
5)You are taking playmaking capabilities out of the DT and DE hands.
6)It may take years to switch to a 3-4 but to switch back shouldnt take long and we might find that out after this year if nolan doesnt produce.

Elaboration

3)Our best DT can still be used... they could all stay and play in a 4-3. I think Sopoaga could be very good in a 4-3. We have to narrow our DT search which hurts. Dorsey and ellis (not that their an option with our late pick but ellis could have been with our original pick) would not suit our needs. Some might say move them to DE (some pitched this idea about amobi okoye last year) but they still are not utilized well because of what their responsibilities would be in a 3-4.

DE's is what bothers me the most about running a 3-4. The DE's arent meant to really get a pass rush as much as they're meant to hold their ground. A pass rush can be a great thing (ie super bowl champs). DE's won the super bowl for the giants. Ray McDonald would flourish in a 4-3 and Lawson could play the other DE. Some of our current DEs could play DT.

You are taking a kid out of college that played DE and asking him to do a lot more things than he used to and maybe cant handle. We are practically gambling every time we take one to play OLB. It takes the most physical specimens to play this position well and guys like that arent just laying around the draft.

I truly hope we can figure the 3-4 out but this is my argument for the 4-3. Arguments could be made both ways obviously. Bottom line u shouldnt say the comment makes u sick because it makes you sound ignorant

by Qbgetter13 on Feb 24, 2008 3:24 PM PST up 0 recs

It wasn't the comment

It's the idea; flip-flopping and indecisiveness makes me sick.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 24, 2008 3:50 PM PST up 0 recs

o.o

Anyone could do what Smith did. You have to have someone decent so Willis doesnt start getting killed. Moore can play it if he sticks to his role and to say he can't is beyond my understanding.

What? No.

More accurately, anyone can do what Moore did 2 years ago. And it's just that guys like Patrick Willis are physically gifted enough to excel at it. What Smith did last year requires a deeper understanding of the game, a great amount of patience, play recognition and field-smarts.

From what I've seen, I have made this observation: Brandon Moore would suck opposite Willis for all the same reasons that Ashley Lelie sucks as a WR: he just doesn't have the capacity to properly learn the position. You can give him something to do and he'll do it (see '05 - "see the ball, hit the ball"), but if you complicate things for him too much, he's bound to blow it more than a few times per game.

Ulbrich is a much better fit. He's a lot more willing to sacrifice a tackle to take on lead blocker, and he's got enough know-how to hit the right holes and fill the right gaps. Plus, in a general sense, he shows a much greater level of toughness than Moore, who is more of a drag-down tackler who likes to chase down ball-carriers.

by shleckothegecko on Feb 20, 2008 8:56 AM PST up 0 recs