Acquiring WRs for Martz' system

by sven406 on Feb 25, 2008 2:54 PM PST

EDITOR'S NOTE 2:55PM - I saw this diary by Sven and am intrigued by the new angle it takes on potential wide receivers for the 49ers. As far as some of the names mentioned, I'm definitely not a fan of Donte Stallworth. He has been too inconsistent and too injury prone. I'm not sure what to expect out of the draft now in terms of potential wide receivers. My personal preference is to go some combination of DL and OL with those first two picks, but I would be a little surprised if they didn't go WR with one of the picks. Either way it's definitely worth discussion

Mike Martz has been calling the shots for NFL offenses for 9 years now. During that time, he has utilized 10 wide receivers:

Torry Holt - 6'0, 190 lbs
Isaac Bruce - 6'0, 190
Mike Furrey - 6'0, 195
Shaun McDonald - 5'10, 185
Az-Zahir Hakim - 5'10, 190
Kevin Curtis - 6'0, 185
Dane Looker - 6'0, 195
Ricky Proehl - 6'0, 190
Roy Williams - 6'3, 210
Calvin Johnson - 6'4, 240

Does everyone see the pattern? Johnson and Williams are immensely talented, but even when Martz had weapons like them, his QB targeted the little guys (Furrey & McDonald) far more often. Martz has always looked to build his scheme around a RB who can catch the ball out of the backfield (which we have) and small, quick receivers who can stretch the field (which we don't). At this point, the most Martz-ian WR the Niners can offer is Jason Hill.

Bernard Berrian would certainly fit the bill but might be overpriced considering Martz' ability to get decent production out of no-name guys who fit his system (Furrey, McDonald, Looker, Hakim). Other free agent options: Drew Carter and the recently released Donte Stallworth.

This also means that the taller, jump-ball chasing prospects at the top of most draft boards (Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, Limas Sweed) are out. DeSean Jackson will almost certainly be gone by pick #29, but there should be some speed guys available in rounds 2, 3, and beyond. Florida's Andre Caldwell and Houston's Donnie Avery come immediately to mind. I could also see the Niners taking a chance on Appalachian St's Dexter Jackson, who ran the combine's fastest 40 yd dash, in the 4th or 5th round.

As I've written before, I don't like taking WRs too early in the draft, but there's no harm tossing ideas around. Since Martz has now been given the keys to the offense, he'd better also get the personnel he needs to make his plan work.

Thoughts from the Nation?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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All we have is Martz-ian type receivers..

Battle: 6'1 213
Jackson: 6'0 206
Hill: 6'0 204
Gilmore: 6'0 200
Zeigler: 6'2 181
Rabb: 6'2 199

the only difference is that Battle and maybe even Gilmore have shown that they can actually catch the ball in traffic, which we've seen Martz' past receivers do. The WR position is talented draftwise and should hold off until the 2nd round to get a Martz-ian type WR. Don't be surprise if Davone Bess from Hawaii gets drafted with their 4th or 5th pick if still available

Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.

by bayboy on Feb 25, 2008 11:39 AM PST 0 recs

I think the x-factor here

Is defense stretching speed. Size is the first half of the equation. Speed is the second.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 25, 2008 12:17 PM PST up 0 recs

Agreed

The reason I say that Jason Hill is the closest fit for Martz' style is that he has speed, while Jackson, Battle, and Gilmore do not. Clearly being short is a virtue in its own right.

I don't have the raw numbers, but I know that all of the WRs that Martz has used are quick, while that is not our receivers' strength. My point is, even though I like Battle, I don't think Martz will. And even though I wasn't a huge fan of the Martz signing, now that he's on board, he should be given the type of personnel he needs to effectively implement his system.

www.sfbaywatching.com - daily news & commentary on Niners, Giants, Warriors, & Cardinal!

by sven406 on Feb 25, 2008 1:07 PM PST up 0 recs

hmm...

meant to say that being short is not a virtue in its own right

www.sfbaywatching.com - daily news & commentary on Niners, Giants, Warriors, & Cardinal!

by sven406 on Feb 25, 2008 1:13 PM PST up 0 recs

Ahem

As somebody who will never so much as sniff 5'8", I have to say I disagree. In fact, I think shortness is the most virtuous of the virtues in its own right. Not only that, but it makes it easier to walk under stuff too.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 25, 2008 4:40 PM PST up 0 recs

As I have mentioned in previous discussions

I have become a huge Dexer Jackson fan. I think he could be spectacular in a Martz system. I know he only played in Division 1AA but I thought he looked good in senior bowl practices, showed up in the Big House against Michigan (3 rec., 92 yards, and 2 TD) and Jackson could be an electrifying returner. Of course his usefulness on returns is minimized if the niners have signed Rossum. Another receiver I think the Niners should and will take a hard look at is Hawkins from Cal. He had a spectacular Senior Bowl and didn't hurt himself in the combine.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 25, 2008 12:31 PM PST 0 recs

Right on

I'd rather the Niners grab Hawkins and/or Jackson in the 3rd round or later than go WR with #29 or #39. I think we're more likely to find an immediate contributor on O-line or D-line in those 1st & 2nd round spots than we are at WR.

www.sfbaywatching.com - daily news & commentary on Niners, Giants, Warriors, & Cardinal!

by sven406 on Feb 26, 2008 8:32 AM PST up 0 recs

possible

with signing of sopoaga and if we sign smith then there is no way we take a DL in the first round.......if youre worried about a NT then there will be one past the first round....

this is a very deep OT class and i'm a firm believer in finding good o-lineman in later rounds....

OLB is too big of a crap shoot.... no CB...no SS... no ILB... Maybe FS but one probably wont be available at that spot unless we want to convert reggie smith.... no TE.... no QB (unless martz wants his guy and brohm happens to be available).... no RB and that leaves WR..... Martz loves them and likes a certain kind and i get that....

Hardy is 6'6"...ran in the 4.4s and can catch.... do u know how easy it is for a 6'6" receiver to punk a 5'10" DB on a endzone corner route...... this would be amazing since we dump a jumpman.... i was a big supporter of drafting sidney rice and we passed it up and got hill.... hill doesnt see the field on a below avg receiving core..... lets get hardy and be done with it... hopefully he's available still.....(did u hear his interview... aka nolan guy.... speaks well... doesnt seem like a trouble maker.... wants to work hard and admits what he has to work on)

I'm being a little bit of the devil's advocate but honestly i dont think i will be upset no matter what we do.

by Qbgetter13 on Feb 27, 2008 7:21 PM PST up 0 recs

Matt Jones

Matt Jones is 6'6", ran under a 4.4 forty, makes some incredible catches, yet he still sucks at WR. So obviously height doesn't mean a whole lot.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 28, 2008 7:18 AM PST up 0 recs

Uh-huh

I agree with your general point, which is and always has been that size means little in the hands of a no-talent player, but I think experience plays into things at least a little bit as well.

Matt Jones is a 25 year old who played QB in college and has been in the NFL for 3 years. He's played receiver for all of 3 years as well. His development is ridiculously unfinished, and he's an awful, awful example for you to use in this case. He may turn out to be as bad as he's looked so far, but WRs take time in the NFL and he never played WR to begin with so it's bound to take longer.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 28, 2008 2:57 PM PST up 0 recs

The Jags have given up on Jones

Why are you still holding out hope? As a former first round pick, who was drafted as a WR, he didn't start a single game in '07, which is down from the 4 he started in the previous season (and it's not like Jax is loaded with WR). My point was that there's a lot more to being a receiver than being 6'6" and out jumping DBs and Jones proves that point fine.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 28, 2008 5:10 PM PST up 0 recs

Well

I guess it would have helped me if I'd bothered to look at his game logs at all. I still think he's a flawed example, but I was absolutely wrong about him being a bad example. He's a fine example. The never played WR thing bugs me, but it really doesn't matter in the bigger picture.

I concede. Nice point.

That said, I still like Hardy. :)

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 28, 2008 5:27 PM PST up 0 recs

I like Hardy too!

And I fully expect him to be more polished than Jones probably ever will be.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 29, 2008 7:28 AM PST up 0 recs

To my defense

I couldn't really find any other 6'6" WRs. There's a bunch of 6'4" to 6'5" guys but hardly any 6'6" and for some reason I let that extra inch be the controlling factor in my example selection.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Feb 29, 2008 7:30 AM PST up 0 recs

Re: Jason Hill

The major reason Hill didn't see the field was that he was hurt most of the season. That might be a long-term problem in itself (durability), but it doesn't necessarily mean that he won't be good enough to get significant run next season.

As for our first round pick, I say snap up Sam Baker if he is still there. Staley and Baker would be a set of great pass-blocking tackles, which is another cornerstone of the Martz offense.

www.sfbaywatching.com - daily news & commentary on Niners, Giants, Warriors, & Cardinal!

by sven406 on Feb 28, 2008 7:50 AM PST up 0 recs

The thing

I haven't been contributing much to these discussions even though I want to. The problem is that I'm getting to a point where I really don't know what I want to see done with WRs this offseason. Berrian would be something, and only the potential pricetag would give me much in the way of fits. In the draft I'm still inclined to want one of those first two picks going toward a receiver, and I'm not crazy about either Manningham or Doucet, but I really like James Hardy (for the wrong reasons, too) and the WRs that won't make it down to us (don't want to see the team trade up). After that, it pretty much evens out through round 4 or so for me. So if we don't go in the first two rounds, I don't feel much of a difference between that and a round 4 receiver anyway.

So I wouldn't mind Berrian... I'd really like to see an earlier 1st round guy fall to us, I'd be jizzy over Hardy even though he doesn't seem to fit Martz, and I'd be fine waiting until the second day. I'd kind of like to feel more difinitive than that right now, but I just don't....

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down... over and over....

by howtheyscored on Feb 26, 2008 9:28 AM PST 0 recs

The Dark Horse WR for Us

I think if we take a WR in the first or second round, I think the dark horse is Caldwell from Florida. I think this for two reasons. One, Caldwell did very well at the senior bowl and if Nolan and McCloughlan have shown anything in the draft they love to draft players that impress them at the senior bowl. Second, Caldwell appears to me, albeit from a very slight overview of Caldwell's combine numbers, to fit very well into a Martz system. As we have talked about Caldwell fits the size mold at 6'0" 1/2 and 207 LBs. and he has speed running a 4.37 40 yard dash. I think he is a reach in the first round but he could be available in the second. If that is the case and depending on what happens with other picks and free agency I wouldn't mind seeing the us take the approach others have proposed of drafting several WRs knowing that some may not work out but that one or two could. It is probably wishful thinking but a WR class of Caldwell, Hawkins, and Dexter Jackson would be a wonderful addition to the WR corp.

Tom will never be as cool as Joe

by wader251 on Feb 26, 2008 11:14 AM PST 0 recs

Rumor is...

The 49ers will very likely sign Shaun McDonald, one of Martz' favorite receivers on Detroit last year. Sounds like a good idea, as he won't cost as much as a big name but could be very productive.

by jaytierney on Feb 26, 2008 12:25 PM PST 0 recs