Pre-Draft Positional Battles

by Fooch on Mar 23, 2008 11:10 PM PDT in News Comment 16 comments

Things have hit a bit of a lull as we are still a month away from the NFL Draft. The 49ers made their biggest moves in free agency and seem to be in full-on get ready for the draft mode. So I thought I'd follow Matt Barrows' lead and look at the various positional battles shaping up for training camp. Since the draft will obviously affect this, I'll throw in some thoughts on where that will come into play.

Quarterback
Barrows made a good point when discussing the QB situation:

The truth is that Shaun Hill or J.T. O'Sullivan will have to be dramatically better than Alex Smith to become the opening-day starter. (Tie goes to the franchise quarterback). The 49ers simply have too much invested in Smith, including their reputations, not to give him at least a slight edge.

The addition of J.T. O'Sullivan made this situation just a little bit crazy. O'Sullivan has a year under the Martz offense, which has to give him a little bump up in the competition in that regard. However, Barrows is right. Smith is getting the serious coin and McNolan's reputation is riding on Smith. If Hill or O'Sullivan is clearly better I believe they'd go with that person, but tie certainly does go to the "franchise QB." I'd say it goes: 1. Smith, 2a. Hill, 2b. O'Sullivan.

Wide Receiver
So excluding any drafted WR, it makes sense to think Isaac Bruce is the #1 for now. After rolling craps on Darrell Jackson, Bruce seems to be the guy management thinks will fill that role in terms of production and veteran leadership. At the same time, I'll stick to my guns that Vernon Davis is the real #1 receiver, but we'll keep him out for now. After Bruce, Arnaz Battle and Bryant Johnson will battle it out for that #2 spot. Johnson oozes talent, but Battle has done nothing but produce up to this point. I give the edge to Battle because he is the incumbent, but I'm really excited to see what Bryant Johnson brings to the table.

Beyond the top three receivers, Ashley Lelie and Jason Hill will be duking it out for playing time as the 4th receiver. While I'm sure we'll see some 5-receiver sets, they won't be frequent enough to merit consideration at that spot. If Hill can stay healthy, maybe we'll finally get a chance to see what he brings to the table and if he can beat out Lelie for the 4th spot.

TED Linebacker
Now that Derek Smith is down in San Diego, this position has become a bit tumultuous. First there's everyone's favorite underperforming 49er, Brandon Moore. Throw in free agent signee Dontarrious Thomas. Maybe Takeo Spikes will pass his physical and want to be a 49er. I think many of us hope Brandon Moore steps up to take a starting role. However, assuming everyone stays healthy, splitting time with Dontarrious Thomas could be what helps Brandon Moore reach some sort of potential. I'm really not sure what to expect at the TED position. Does it become a platoon?

3rd CB
Barrows discussed the 3rd CB position, but I think it's more a combination of cornerbacks 2-5. Walt Harris is settled in at the #2 spot, but clearly he's not get any younger. As MB said, Shawntae Spencer has the most experience, but also a horrible injury track record. I think he'll stick around enough to make an impact, but I really want to see Tarell Brown step up this offseason and early in the regular season. He dropped in the draft because of character issues, and I think he could turn into one heck of a steal. If Spencer stays healthy he'll hold onto that #3 spot, but if he gets hurt I think Brown will pounce. Beyond those two, Donald Strickland is back. Strickland won't shock anybody and take a starting job, but he'll continue to provide solid depth.

Defensive Line
I was checking out the 49ers depth chart at espn.com and the defensive line raised my eyebrows. They currently have the starting three as Justin Smith, Aubrayo Franklin and Ray McDonald, with Isaac Sopoaga and Ronald Fields as the primary backups. I really liked what I saw from McDonald towards the end of last season, but I wonder if it was enough to merit a starting spot? Or maybe we'll see a platoon of Sopoaga and Franklin at nose tackle and McDonald, Sopoaga and Fields at that defensive end position. I really like the idea of being able to rotate bodies in and out. While we may not have the most talented pass rushers on our defensive line, being able to rotate fresh bodies could help when we're facing a worn down offensive line in the second half.

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Draft day trade

I thought about creating a seperate dairy for this but decided just to post it here because it is somewhat germane to the topic.

In short, I saw Chad Johnson on NFL Total Access the other day, and he impressed the hell out of me.

Chad basically said that he wants out of Cincy. If Chad wants out because of money(which I don't think it is the case), that is one thing. But if he wants out simply because he thinks the grass is greener elsewhere, then I welcome Chad with open arms.

Here is my proposal: Trade our 2008 1st round pick (maybe throw in Lelie or some cash???)for Chad. I don't think this is that impossible an idea, seeing how Randy Moss was dealt for a 4th round pick.

Signing Chad would fill one of our needs. Chad would slide in as the #1, Bruce #2, Johnson #3, and Battle #4. That would be a solid receiving core, especially when you factor in Franklin and The Disease.

I think this move would make a lot of sense for the following reasons: 1) Nolan needs to win now. 2)Chad wants to win; he is passionate. 3) We have plenty of #2,3 receivers. There is still room for an upgrade. 4) Aquiring Chad would complete our wide out corp. 5) We wouldn't have to risk reaching for a wideout in round one. 6) We can still address our o-line needs in later rounds.

Any thoughts? Do you guys think this would be a good move?

by jfainsf49 on Mar 24, 2008 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Boils down to competition

It'll all boil down to competition and I mean that in many more ways than one. For one, the if Johnson is indeed on the market, be sure that there will be at least a dozen teams putting in offers for him. With that in mind, a future #1 may not be enough, because remember that Cincinnati has a lot tied into Johnson (i.e. they've already paid his signing bonus and are responsible for the remainder of it) and he's under contract for more years than one. Moss was a rental, and one that other teams had very little demand for. That's how Moss was acquired for a 4th round pick.

Aside from other team's competing to acquire him, Johnson would probably like to go to a contender. As much as 49ers fans believe the team is improving itself (which it indeed is), any player on the outside looking in will undoubtedly see this team as (still) a "work in progress."

by sfgfan on Mar 24, 2008 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know it's a long shot...

Yeah, I am not sure about Johnson's contract status and all that other good stuff like, money already paid bonuses etc...Still though, I have to think that Johnson has some leverage. I mean, the guy sounded pretty adamant about wanting out of Cincy. Maybe he is willing to sit a year at the risk of having to return some money to the Bengals, or the Niners could compensate the Bengals if a trade went down. I think it would be worth it. Chad has a good 4 or 5 years of ball in him yet.

As far as the competition with other teams consider this. Chad could come here and be the clear cut number one wideout. He would be coming to a team that has an OC known for being pass happy. No more second fiddle to Houshmandzadah. He would get to play with the likes of Franklin Gore, The Disease, Bamm Bamm, Clements, and former mate Justin Smith. I mean, short of a lineman or two, a quarterback with swagger that can go out and lead this team, we aren't that far from contention.

About the Moss and Johnson comparison, my only counterpoint is that they aren't that different, in terms of mentality, one could argue that they are/have been a locker room cancer.

by jfainsf49 on Mar 24, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Johnson

I'm not sure what it would take to get Chad Johnson in a trade, but it's not a crazy idea and he's definitely a bonafide #1 receiver (1 of maybe only 10 or 12 in the whole league)... on the other hand, I think the 49ers would be much better by improving their offensive line and keeping our current core of receivers than we wouold be with Johnson and a shoddy line.

by jaytierney on Mar 24, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

First problem

Cincy would take like an $8M+ cap hit if they dealt Chad. At that point it's almost worth it for them just to put up with his malcontent ass no matter what the offer on the table is. By dealing Chad for a first round pick and then incurring a cap hit like that does not make the Bengals any better.

Although I guess I wouldn't really have a problem with the trade I just don't see any way in hell Cincy trades Chad this season. Also, why not just wait until next year when Roy Williams is a free agent if you really want one of those "#1 WR" and save your draft picks? Personally because of how the rest of the team is built (ball control offense w/ a good defense) I don't see a true "#1 WR" being a necessity.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Mar 24, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

It is going to be hard to get around that 8 million dollar cap hit. But that's why I suggested the Niners could offer some cash as to minimize the hit taken by the Bengals.

Furthermore, the Niners could give the Bengals, let us say, 2.5 mil, then Chad could give back, say, 2.5 mil (if he really wants out so bad). That would take it from an 8 million dollar hit to 3 million.

Another thing, what would happen if Chad sat out next season? Would the Bengals still take that 8 mil hit? If so why not trade him and at least get a first round pick and monetary compensation out of the deal.

I think waiting until next season to target a wideout is a decent idea. But man, if Ocho Cinco is out there for the taking we had better get him before someone else does.

Finally, how can you be so sure that this is still a ball control team with Martz running the show!

by jfainsf49 on Mar 24, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the last sentence should have ended in a ?

by jfainsf49 on Mar 24, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How can I be so sure?

In regards to the Niners being a ball control team. Simple, look at the roster. Look at your RB then look at your QB and WR. Now look at the defense. The defense should be good enough to keep the Niners in games and but the offense isn't in any position to go out and win games on their own. Gore is the most potent offensive weapon the team has by far and teams that are built like that are usually ball control offensives (see 2000 Baltimore Ravens). I for one don't think the Niners offense with Martz is going to resemble the offenses that he had in St. Louis or Detroit because in part I don't think he's a one trick pony. But if Martz decides to air it out like he has in the past it will undoubtfully be a disappointing season.

Also I think you're understanding of the salary cap is flawed (or atleast mine is, which is very possible), I don't think the Niners or Chad giving money to Cincy has that affect on Cincy's salary cap. From what I understand, when a player is traded the remainder of his signing bonus (probably in addition to other bonuses), which is prorated over the length of his contract, the original team, who is responsible for the entire signing bonus, takes an accelerated hit from what's remaining on that bonus in the next season. So basically if Cincy decided to trade Johnson after the '08 season the hit they would take would be less that the $8M+ that they would take this year.

As for Chad sitting out next year, I'm not totally sure how that would affect the cap. If he's holding out he's not playing and I don't think he's getting paid. Chad won't sit out and I doubt Cincy will cave into his demands if he toys with the idea of possibly sitting out.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Mar 24, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

My understanding of the salary cap is virtually nonexistent.

by jfainsf49 on Mar 25, 2008 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The QB battle

Will be an unfair one. And Hill probably be moved down to #3 just because Martz loves this O'Sullivan character. They probably won't even give Hill a chance.

Merton Hanks, 'nuff said.

by jtoj on Mar 24, 2008 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I know the competition won't be a very fair one, and it probably can't be when there are three guys involved. The coaching staff will probably already narrow it down to two options by the time the preseason starts, and I disagree with you that Hill is likely the odd man out.

I think Nolan likes Hill. I think McCloughan likes Smith. I think Martz likes O'Sullivan. So each QB kind of has a coach behind him.

I also disagree with Barrows' assessment that Hill or O'Sullivan have to be head and tails above Smith at the end of the "competition" to be named the starter. I disagree with the idea that Smith is the favorite just because his salary dictates him to be. If Hill or O'Sullivan show that they can lead the team to victory while Smith can't, it doesn't really matter how much they invested in Smith or how wrong they were. People are willing to forget past mistakes if you win now.

by sfgfan on Mar 24, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Offensively who holds more clout?

Nolan or Martz? The reason Martz was brought in was because Nolan doesn't know shit about offense. With that said his assessment of the back-up quarterback should be taken as whole heartedly as mine. I still think Smith will get out performed by one of Hill or O'Sullivan if not both and if that's the case and Smith still gets the nod I will retract my 49er fanhood. It was a bad enough mistake taking Smith #1 overall but failure to recognize that mistake is not acceptable to me and I'll take my fanhood else where.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Mar 24, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Careful...

... given the circumstances, it's not fair to judge Alex Smith so far. There are a lot of fans in New York who would remind you not to rush to judgement the way they did.

by jaytierney on Mar 25, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's fair

Eli has been atleast an average NFL QB since his 2nd year in the league. Alex Smith has been historically bad for his first 3.

Here's to hoping Albert Hanyesworth stomps on Alex Smith's head.

by methodrampage on Mar 25, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

O-line moves

According to, http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team?statsId=25, Qasim Mitchell is in the house. This guy is 6'6", 350lbs. According to wikipedia he has been a practice squad/offseason memember for the Cards and Panthers, hell at least he ain't a former Raven.

Not sure why he wasn't in the NFL last year.

Lunch time baby...

by jfainsf49 on Mar 24, 2008 8:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We arent getting johnson

.... he wines too much....first time smith overthrows him or whatever he is going to cry like a baby (ie A bryant).... justin smith could probably give a truthful evaluation though

i'm all about T. Brown stepping up and taking that nickle spot. I'd take hudson over spencer though.

Sopoagna needs to start at NT.... he's got to get a lot of pt based off his paycheck

Quit dogging my boy Battle...... no way does he drop to #4..... he is the only sure catch we had last year. I hope he stays at #2.

by Qbgetter13 on Mar 24, 2008 1:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs