Maiocco: 49ers to sign Jamie Martin

by Fooch on Sep 10, 2008 9:48 AM PDT in News Comment 36 comments

EDITOR'S NOTE 11:23AM: It's official, Alex Smith is headed to the IR and Jamie Martin is a 49er.

Matt Maiocco is reporting that the 49ers have agreed to sign QB Jamie Martin. Mike Nolan is expected to make an announcement on Alex Smith's condition in about an hour, but I'd imagine this is a strong indication of the direction of that announcement.

If there was an in-season disabled list like in baseball, the Jamie Martin signing could be just a short-term thing while Smith got healthy. People have suggested going after a guy who could be a potential long-term guy, but Maiocco makes a good point about Martin:

He has knowledge of Mike Martz's offense. If he were needed to play, it would allow the team's offense to function. Really, Martin is one of the few free-agent QBs available that would allow the team's other offensive players to go ahead with everything they've learned about this offense without skipping a beat.

Obviously it'd be nice to get a guy like Andre Woodson or John Beck, or really any young QB that could maybe become a franchise quarterback. However, for the purposes of the hear and now, we need a guy who could step in if everything went to hell with JTO and Hill. There is zero upside with Martin, but as a third QB I really don't see any need for now to have upside.

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meh

I’d rather see them not sign anyone and just allow Robinson to be the emergency QB, but whatever.

by sam23 on Sep 10, 2008 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Woodson

I think I saw that the Giants cut him, but is he still a FA?

by sam23 on Sep 10, 2008 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

woodson

He was signed to their practice squad according to Rotoworld. If we signed him from their squad he’d have to be on the 53-man roster. Not the worst thing in the world, but not useful as an emergency QB if he doesn’t know the offense.

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by Fooch on Sep 10, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Young and the Upside

I think the 49ers made a cut from their practice squad yesterday, no? If that’s the case, I think they’re still looking to bring in someone younger that they can maybe start prepping for next offseason. Bring in a veteran guy in case he actually needs to be used, and bring in a young guy that can be molded for the future (even if only as an eventual backup).

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So much for that..

According to Maiocco, Nolan said they’re going to fill the PS spot vacated by releasing Holmes with another defensive lineman.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, Fooch, that Jamie Martin makes sense for a 3rd string option, but here’s my only concern…

Suppose JTO throws for 2500-3000 yards this year, and maybe 20-25 TDs. Our offense looks so good that Mike Martz gets another job as a head coach and we have to move on to our fifth OC in five years. My suspicion would be that JTO would look like a very pedestrian QB again in a different offense, and our long term quarterback needs would still be unfulfilled. Drafting a rookie quarterback will require time and patience before inserting him into the starting lineup, and we’re essentially back at square one.

After watching that first game, I really think Nolan’s going to be lucky to make it out of the season as the head coach, and I’m almost positive he won’t be back next year (knee-jerk reaction, sure). God bless Mike Singletary, but I think the best thing the Niners are going to be able to do for themselves is to hire an offensive minded head coach. I think that’s the only way we’re going to get any sort of offensive consistency. I’m personally against the notion of hiring Martz as the HC, but it would probably be the best thing for the offense. But if Martz is gone after this season, we’re still going to lack that franchise quarterback and I think the Niner offense is going to be in serious trouble for a while to come.

So does it make sense to not go after someone with potential, like a John Beck or… Whomever? Or does it make sense to not worry about the future at this point in time, and just draft a QB next year or later?

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 10, 2008 10:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

JTO

Remember also that he’s a free agent after this season. So we could be without a QB OR OC!

I do agree with trying to bring in somebody young to develop to cover ourselves though. Just a tough situation all around.

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by Fooch on Sep 10, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that...

… if Martz leaves, O’Sullivan will follow him. Martz will only be leaving if he has success, and chances are, that means that O’Sullivan had success as well. Martz taking over a head coaching gig means he’d probably get some sort of power over who his starting QB is, and naturally, it wouldn’t surprise me if he wanted O’Sullivan to at least compete for it.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's absolutely right

After watching the first game, I think Nolan’s going to be lucky to make it to the offseason as head coach. Maybe it’s a knee-jerk reaction, but I just suspect he’s going to get that dreaded vote of confidence right around Week 10.

If that happens, it’s possible Martz will be promoted to head coach, but I’m not sold that he should be. I’m reticent on the idea is all. But that IS our best bet for offensive continuity. If someone else is offered the job, I think we’re back at square one, but we’ll probably be minus any quarterback who could be considered a franchise player.

What to do, what to do…

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 10, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmm...

but my solution would be to bring in a different defensive minded coach. I dont know if that should be Singletary (I’m a huge fan, but only because of his rep as a motivator and player) or someone with a fresh persepective. If you look at the young pieces we have and vets that are locked up for a while it certainly seems as though building around the defense (i.e. Willis, Clements, Smith, Lawson, Balmer?) and a ball control offense (Gore, Chilo, Staley) would be the smartest way to go. I know that strategy obviously hasnt been working, but it seems self defeating to try to suddenly implement a high flying offense just to appease the fans when it doesnt fit our personnel.

by sam23 on Sep 10, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

High-flying

I don’t think JR was suggesting the team implement a high-flying offense. I think the biggest problem for this team right now would be the offensive continuity. You can fix that by making the offensive coordinator also the head coach. As he said, it doesn’t have to be Martz, but having an offensive minded coach (even someone similar to Norv Turner in offensive stature) could help.

The 49ers (and the league) seem to be high on Manusky. I think that McCloughan would be confident enough in Manusky that he could go after an offensive-minded head coach and leave the defense to Manusky and Singletary to run. Maybe that’s just my ideal situation or something, but I can definitely see something like that happening.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

I just dont want to see totally abandon their apparent strategy of building a strong defensive team that can control the ball with a solid running game.

by sam23 on Sep 12, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drafting a QB in '09

This is admittedly verrrrrrrry early to be raising this as a topic of conversation, but hear me out…

Alex Smith is done for the year and, in my opinion, done as a Niner. There is no way we are going to keep him after this year.

It is hard to say what JT will be able to do this year. My optimistic view is that he will be okay, but not great. My pessimistic view is that he will be terrible and S. Hill will be promoted to starter at some point this year.

I guess its possible that JT could have an outstanding season (though I doubt it), but even if he does, would we want to sign him for a sizable contract in the offseason? Would the team feel comfortable throwing a bunch of money at a 7th year NFL vagabond based on one solid year of play? Questionable at best.

Thus, I propose the following:

Whether we end the season with:

(a) an average JT at the helm
(b) a terrible JT replaced by S. Hill
© a great JT, who we may or may not want to re-sign

wouldn’t it make sense for the Niners to roll the dice again in April 09 and draft the next “future” QB? And if so, who should we keep our collective eyes on?

Young to Rice. Touchdown.

by Call It The Throw on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If JTO does well

And Mike Martz is retained as OC (or HC, which I oppose), I think you re-sign JTO.

If Martz is gone after this season, they’ll need to address the QB position, and I would avoid throwing too much money (probably any money, really) at JTO.

They’ll need to address the quarterback position after this season, but I think the first thing that needs to be determined is what’s going to happen to Martz. After that, the choice of drafting another quarterback or signing a free agent, or turning the helm back over to Hill or JTO needs to be made. Right now, I’m very concerned about the future. But in an hour or so, it probably won’t be on my mind anymore.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 10, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Martz and O'Sullivan

If Martz is going to stay on as a head coach (or even the offensive coordinator), I think the 49ers and O’Sullivan would definitely be able to work something out, regardless of O’Sullivan’s demands (if he warrants any). By cutting Smith by June, the 49ers will have freed up over $9M in cap room, I think, and that’s plenty to re-sign O’Sullivan, if he warrants a re-signing.

I think that the team definitely should draft a QB. From what I’m reading, the class is fairly underwhelming (much like this year’s), so they may be able to get a very solid prospect in the second or third round of the draft. I don’t think a #1 should be used on a QB this season, not with the potential pool sounding the way it does. They could use a WR, a offensive tackle, or a pass-rusher still.

You’re right though, JR, the coaching situation has to be decided upon before they can make any personnel decisions.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

does anyone really want or expect to see JTO or Hill as the starting QB by the end of next season? I wont even ask about Smith because I’m sure I know the answer to that.

by sam23 on Sep 10, 2008 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Before his injury...

… I fully expected Smith to be the starter by season’s end. Of course it’ll never happen now.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

College QB's

Honestly, I havn’t seen any college QB’s yet that make me want to draft them where the Niners will be drafting in the spring. (Top 5 in all likelihood. Top 10 at best.) Maybe you could pick up a Sanchez or someone in the second round and develop them at a rational rate. Of course, at this time last year Andre Woodson and Brian Brohm were the top two QBs and no one had heard of Ryan or Flacco.

It will be an interesting time.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Sep 10, 2008 1:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

not in the first round, but

Riley Skinner, Wake Forest
Curtis Painter, Purdue
Chase Daniels, Mizzou (maybe late first round)

by illini49er on Sep 11, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isnt Daniels kinda

a 1st round lock? or at least as much of a 1st round lock as you can be 1 or 2 games into the season? Sanchez looked solid against Virginia. I’d still be monitoring the Beck, Quinn and Leinart situations and maybe even Boller.

by sam23 on Sep 12, 2008 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alex Smith in 09

I still don’t see why Smith is being portrayed as a bust and an after thought for 09. Having 4 different OC in 4 years is unheard of in the NFL and yet he did “ok” when he was healthy… He’s going to be 24 next year the age some QB start to show potential, we had a glimpse of it in 06 against the Seahawks on Monday night. Here are the facts:

He is the youngest QB taken #1
He has had 4 OC in 4 years
He lacked talent around him for the exception of Gore
Has lacked good protection
He’s never had a veteran QB with talent to mentor him (Trent is not talented)

I say Smith restructures his contract and stays as starting QB when Nolan, Martz and JTO pack their bags… the GM should look for Rob Chudzinski from Cleveland or Bruce Arians from Pittsburg as replacements… I think Arians would be a good fit since he’s worked with good running backs (James in Indy and Bettis/Parker in Pittsburg) and helped developed young QBs (Manning and Roethlisberger).

Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.

by bayboy on Sep 10, 2008 1:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Smith

There’s no way that Condon would support re-structuring Smith’s contract. Not after the way Smith has been perceivably treated by the coaching staff. It’s possible that Smith stays on if McCloughan and the Yorks decide to can Nolan (and possibly Martz), and the new head coach actually wants him here. While I suppose that’s possible, I really don’t think it’s likely because too many factors would have to go “right” for it to happen.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is coming from a Smith fan, mind you.

He’s still my QB and I’m in year 2011 in Madden 09 already.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya!

Its just crazy to have people expect Smith to be the next Hall of Famer when the OC position has been a revolving door for the past 4 years. We have been spoiled to have 2 Hall of Fame QBs back to back so those expectations fell on the Smith for being the #1 draft pick. If he doesn’t or want to re-structure his contract he’ll still be a #2 somewhere else, so why not restructure and stay as #1.

Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.

by bayboy on Sep 10, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All of this assumes

That he can come back from this shoulder injury. More minor injuries have led to an early end to a career to better QB’s.

I think an apt comparison would be Tim Couch. He did lead the woeful Browns to the playoffs once, but he got beat up so badly behind their expansion quality O-line that he ended up with a shoulder injury that never really did heal. He landed in Green Bay as the supposed first Aaron Rodgers, but couldn’t cut it there. Then most recently, he tried to make it on the Jaguars roster but couldn’t crack the top three in a year where they ended up cutting two of their QBs IIRC. Now he’s doing the local broadcasts of UK football games.

I do agree that Smith got a bum rap and probably could have done better in pretty much any of the 31 other NFL cities. But the facts are that he has now run afoul of the coaching staff and has what would appear to be a nagging injury. I would think the only way this could be worse is if his mom was telling everyone that he was thinking about retiring after his rookie year…

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Sep 10, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You make it sound...

… like it’s the same injury that’s bothering him. It was a freak injury to a bone that rarely gets broken. In addition to that, it didn’t come from him just throwing the ball, so it couldn’t be from him adjusting to a weaker shoulder now. It’s just a freak injury. Am I saying he’s not going to get injured in the future? No, I’m not saying that. I’m just saying the two shoulder injuries should be treated as just that, two different injuries that probably had nothing to do with each other. It’s not really indicative of any potential future issues with the shoulder.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From Matt Barrows:

“Doctors are speculating that the fracture might be related to the suture that was used to reattach his shoulder to his collarbone in December. When Smith’s shoulder was separated, the ligaments that connect the shoulder and collarbone were torn away. Dr. James Andrews re-connected those ligaments with a suture, which is where the fracture appears to have occured.”

Alex Smith was a below average QB before his injuries. Now he is a below average QB with injury issues and a huge contract. Why the hell wouldn’t we release this guy? He showed a few flashes of decent play TWO YEARS AGO, while generally being awful, and is now injured again. What sane GM would pay this guy to be a starting QB? This isn’t even a tough one.

Young to Rice. Touchdown.

by Call It The Throw on Sep 10, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Talk about oversimplifying

Bayboy made all the correct points to your “he was a below average QB before his injuries” comment. Smith is still young, and still has the potential.

I do, however, think the Niners are the wrong team for him to advance at all, if he’s able to come back from his injury. Another team will probably sign him to a contract to be a backup QB, and if he’s lucky he’ll get to ride the pine for a while and re-learn the NFL under the tutelage of an offensive-minded head coach. He’ll prove to be a better backup QB option than most teams have at the moment (like… I don’t know, Shaun Hill?). Whether he’s got the ability to ever become a competent NFL starter may be debatable, but he’ll definitely be a solid #2 (haha, solid #2! Like poop! I make me laugh!). This obviously assumes he’ll be able to resume his career after this latest injury.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 10, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously I am in the "no more Alex Smith" camp

and I’ve never denied it, but allow me to respond.

Yes, Alex Smith has gotten a bum deal. He has had 4 OC’s. That sucks. I really am not entirely opposed to the argument that he would have been better under different circumstances. The point is, none of that matters because that ship has sailed. Personally, I think Smith’s development has been badly screwed, as has his confidence, and I don’t see him recovering.

The Alex Smith lovers always want to point out how it “isn’t his fault” that he has been a bad QB (and he has been bad). You’re absolutely right. But who cares? He is what he is, and we can’t unwind the clock. The only relevant question for the purpose of this discussion is this: Do you think he will be a good QB in the future and, if so, why? Where is the evidence? A few games in 2006, pre-injury? You’ll have to do better than that.

To those holding to the notion that he will end up being good, doesn’t the fact that he has just suffered his second season ending injury to his shoulder give you serious pause? It should. These injuries are hard for solid, established QBs to recover from, let alone below average QBs with confidence issues (again, I’m not saying these problems are his fault, but they do exist).

And the argument about his young age is getting a bit tired…a majority of QBs who end up being effective show some sort of consistent effectiveness early in their careers, and Smith has been disappointing (please don’t respond with examples of QBs who started slow and ended up good, such as Steve Young. These are the exceptions that prove the rule. Its not difficult to concede that most great QBs at least start off effective).

And finally, I have to respond to this:

“He’ll prove to be a better backup QB option than most teams have at the moment (like… I don’t know, Shaun Hill?).”

All evidence to the contrary? Hill was consistently better than Smith last year as a starter. Smith’s first few non-injured games were disappointing. Hill was better. Hill is a better backup than Smith. He proved it on the field last year.

Anyway, just the thoughts of a Niner fan eagerly looking forward to closing the door on the disappointing Alex Smith era.

Young to Rice. Touchdown.

by Call It The Throw on Sep 10, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, the ship has sailed.

I was listening to Steve Young talk to Ralph and Tom recently, and they asked about Alex Smith’s career and all the stuff he went through. His quote? “It doesn’t matter.” You have a finite window of opportunity to make your mark on the NFL, and if you blow it, that chance isn’t likely to come around again. I completely agree with Young on this. Smith missed his opportunity, and that’s that. I still think the “bust” label is too strong BECAUSE of the circumstances he’s had, but I agree the the ship has sailed.

As for Shaun Hill, he did play well. Could he replicate that success he had in two or three games over the course of a season? A quarterback who lacks most of the skillsets necessary to be a premier QB? Maybe, but it’s not too likely. It’s all speculation on my part, I don’t know for a fact. And whether or not Smith is able to come back from his injury will determine a lot. We shall see.

I’m just not down for being too irritated with Smith or calling him names, when the cards were completely stacked against him coming into the league. The ship has sailed, and that’s all that really matters. But he’s still someone I’m going to root for, regardless of how his career has turned out to this point.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 10, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can agree with that

I feel legitimately bad for him and really do wish him well.

I just think its time for the Niners (and Niner fans?) to accept the fact that the future success of the team cannot rest on Alex Smith. Its time for all involved to move on.

Young to Rice. Touchdown.

by Call It The Throw on Sep 10, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most everyone knows that already

Look no further than Nolan and McCloughan (I hate trying to spell his name) saying that if Smith doesn’t wrestle the starting job away from JTO, he’ll be gone next year. It’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that he’s done as a Niner. I just hope he’ll get picked up by another team with a solid offense in need of a backup quarterback.

Well, first thing’s first… I’d like to see him recover from his injury, THEN get picked up by another team with a solid offense in need of a backup quarterback.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 10, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fanshot

The ESPN blurb posted by Exhibit G in the fanshot section is a perfect example of what Tom Condon and Alex Smith should consider if/when the 49ers release him. Of course, this is all assuming Turner holds onto his job in San Diego.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

… with the fact that he definitely will play well enough to earn that $13M+ figure he’s scheduled to have next season, and I don’t think I’m arguing that at all. I just pointed out that there’s no guarantee that Smith CAN’’T play again. I didn’t mention, in that comment, that the 49ers should hold onto him. I DID mention a few posts up that if he hadn’t been injured, he may have seen starting snaps at some point this season, but that’s come and gone.

There’s no way the 49ers pay him $13M+ to ride the pine or even experiment with him as a starter. Now that he’s hurt, he can’t even practice the scheme, so he’s pretty much where he was this past off-season when next off-season comes around. I’m not in the “anti-Smith camp,” but I do agree that Smith’s time as a 49er should be over and done with. If not now, then when the season’s over when he’s able to come off IR.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm no stats guy

But I have a hard time recalling any big-time QB’s returning from any type of shoulder injury. They come back from knees all the time and concussions… but generally, I think that injuries to shoulders and elbows end up being the type that change your career. Heck… Kurt Warner hasn’t been the same since he injured his thumb!

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Sep 10, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only one off the top of my head right now...

… is this guy. I’m sure there’s been a few other shoulder separations and such, but I can’t think of them off the top of my head.

I’m not saying Alex should stick around here (though it’s possible he could). I’m just saying he will most definitely get a shot elsewhere, and it’s very possible he’ll be healthy enough to play. Will he ever be the same? Not necessarily, but plenty of QBs get along without arm strength. He just needs a stable place where he can put it all together, and right now, SF is not that place.

by sfgfan on Sep 10, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs