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Around SBN: Clippers Need To Realize That Spurs Are The Anti-Grizzlies

Dear Mike (Nolan and Martz): Reopen the QB Competition!

Yes, I'm saying it.

After Just TurnOvers' second horrendous outing, it's clear that not only is JTO not the long-term answer, he may not be the short-term answer.

To be clear, Martz has had an immediate impact on our offense. We're putting up points, hitting the red zone, and making plays. It's impressive to watch... when it works properly. But witness JTO now and in the season opener against Arizona - he's running the offense relatively effectively, but he turns the ball over way too often and puts undue pressure on the defense.

Yes, the Saints loss is not all his fault - Drew Brees had enough time in the pocket to comb his nonexistant hair. But at least, allow a fair competition in practices if JTO falters again against the Pats. I don't want to see another Niners season go down the tube.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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Yup, but the 49ers have no other quarterback to try.

Maybe next year.

Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement

by StSaints408 on Sep 29, 2008 8:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Shaun Hill

I’m sure people are tired of me pushing for him, but, come on, he can manage an offense and doesn’t turn the damn ball over.

Also, a point I forgot to mention…

You’re in the red zone, it’s first down, you have a chance to score, plenty of time on the clock. Frank Gore has been running well – why would you not give the ball to him? Especially since the last time you were here, your QB threw a pick.

It appears Martz wants to make JTO his guy, the next Kurt Warner. And this ego is hurting the Niners, unfortunately. That’s why JTO threw two picks in the red zone, instead of Gore running it in for two TDs. If JTO makes those passes, it increases JTO’s stats and helps Martz’ head coaching resume. Cynical? Yes, but I can’t think of a better explanation.

by Rishi on Sep 29, 2008 9:04 AM PDT reply actions  

The issue

So, the real issue is not the QB, but the play calling. Is Shaun Hill going to make Martz less pass-happy? Probably not. It’s who he is as a coordinator.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Sep 30, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alright...calm down!

 Let’s be a bit reasonable, this is JTO’s 4th start as an NFL QB. I completely agree that turning the ball over three-four times in a game is ridiculous and you can’t be expected to win a game when that happens, however, this isn’t all JTO’s fault.

1. We are so lucky that he isn’t injured yet with all of the hits he is taking in the backfield. He is getting completely wrecked. I winced almost every time he dropped back yesterday because I was scared for his freakin’ life. The OL needs to step up in our next few games and needs to help him out. I know he holds the ball a while longer, but just give it time and he will have his reads down pat

2. I also agree that Frank isn’t getting the ball enough. Martz definitely should have used him down in the redzone yesterday in both situations.

When these two areas of the offense are adjusted, JTO will then have more time, less pass rushing, and we will see him work like he did against the Seahawks and the Lions.

What do you think?

by renke81 on Sep 29, 2008 10:24 AM PDT reply actions  

agree

Considering how poor the offensive line play has been at times, imagine if we had an even slower QB (Shaun Hill) back there. I realize he might be more prone to throw the ball away and avoid the sack, but I think JTO gives the offense the best chance to make big plays. Hill can make the short and intermediate plays but I think JTO has the skills to make the bigger plays, which has been missing for the last few years.

As for Frank, I think we can all agree he needs more carries. Of course falling behind 21-6 at the half doesn’t help keep the running game going.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by David Fucillo on Sep 29, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh brother

Yeah, let’s send the message to the QBs that after one bad game, they’re going to get yanked. JTO has played very well thus far minus a couple of bad mistakes yesterday, and far beyond anyone’s expectations. He can throw the ball downfield with some zip and accuracy, is able to get out of the pocket and avoid some sacks, and actually takes command of the offense. That is more than can be said for any 49ers QB since Garcia. Let’s at least get halfway through the season before any decisions are made.

I do think whatever happens, the #1 priority this offseason needs to be drafting a QB, if one is not acquired via free agency. Let the rookie sit on the bench and learn for a year or two like he should, and then hopefully we can get to the point where we have the proverbial “QB of the future”.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 11:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Insanity

That is all.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 29, 2008 11:19 AM PDT reply actions  

You know

He had this on Microsoft Word saved on his computer just waiting for a bad JTO game.
It was written back in August.

MURS for President!!!!!!!

by jtoj on Sep 29, 2008 12:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Tough Defense

JTO threw a couple real bad passes on those interceptions, in fact one was really, really bad (behind the receiver and not high enough – easily picked off) but keep in mind the Saints got exactly what you want out of their defense. It’s no secret that if you can pressure the offense with just your four down lineman – that leaves you 7 guys on pass coverage. Quarterback can’t find guys open, pressure is coming so you either force things or you get sacked (coverage sacks). So if you really look at it – JTO didn’t really force things in non-Red Zone situations but – two game-breaking interceptions he did. The other important point is Martz system is designed to counter blitzing real well, in fact it sometimes flourishes if a team blitzes too much. So again by the Saints getting really great pressure with just the front four, you force the Martz system into a tough situation. You know which team was the last one to fall victim to this same fate – the New England Patriots in the last super bowl. All this crap about Brady being injured was just that – the Giants simply got great performances from the front four and it all snowballs from there.

JTO won’t force it too much into the end zone again this year – he’ll throw it away next time. The niners were beaten in the trenches on both sides of the ball – everything else was a result of this.

by SoquelFan on Sep 29, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Once again, throw the damn ball away if you’re under pressure.

Comparing JTO’s play to Alex Smith’s (post-injury) is an unfair comparison. We shouldn’t be complacent in this.

by Rishi on Sep 29, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

One bad game and everyone goes crazy

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Sep 29, 2008 1:45 PM PDT reply actions  

To be fair, some of us were half-crazy to begin with.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Sep 29, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only half?

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Sep 30, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not all JTO's fault

We forget who is calling the plays… there were plenty of times that Martz was forcing the ball in the air… why not try that shuffle pass to Gore for a score rather than 2 points. There were times that it was apparent the saints was blitzing and a screen pass or rushing play was never called. Let’s not jump on JTO, maybe his inexperience might be to blame for not recognizing and changing the play but Martz is at fault for not recognizing the saints defensive packages on certain down and especially on the interceptions plays for a run play to be called.

Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.

by bayboy on Sep 29, 2008 2:46 PM PDT reply actions  

it really all JT faults

blame our o-line for not protecting him yesterday. Frank Gore should had gotten the ball more. But, the saints d-line were pretty good yesterday. So, let the not trips about this and think about the sunday game against the Brady less Pats.

by warriorfan4life on Sep 30, 2008 2:22 AM PDT reply actions  

another thing

The Martz offense is prone to giving up sacks. We all know that, we’ve all seen that, the numbers are there to prove it. So let’s not pretend that we’re not going to give up 4-5 sacks a game no matter what. We have to accept that. Here’s the problem – this offense is based on timing and the ball is meant to come out quickly. It’s not designed (from what I can tell) to have the QB making 2-3 reads and waiting to find an open guy. It depends a lot on the receivers running a crisp route and getting open very quickly, even if for a small window.

It looks to me like JTO drops back, sees his first read is covered, looks to the second read, and then gets sacked. He needs to be able to consistently get the ball out as soon as he finishes his drop, and make the throw to the first read. If he can’t do that he’s going to get pressured.

What I can’t tell is how much this is the fault of the system and how much it’s the fault of the O-Line. I think it’s both. Clearly they could be doing a better job protecting JTO, but they’re also put at a little bit of a disadvantage playing in this system. My ultimate point is that maybe the problem also lies in the receivers – they need to get open better.

Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis

by wjackalope on Sep 30, 2008 8:48 AM PDT reply actions  

System

The timing of the system is what makes slow-pokes like Kurt Warner look good. While it’s nice that O’Sullivan is always looking for more, there are times where you just have to cut your losses. Taking sacks, and even worse, sacks that generate fumbles, are just poor judgment. It’s not like he didn’t know that guy was back there.

by sfgfan on Sep 30, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

oh yeah

I’m not saying JTO isn’t at fault here. Clearly he has some things to work on and ball security is #1. I just wanted to point out another factor that is contributing to the sacks.

Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis

by wjackalope on Sep 30, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

I was more or less adding to what you were saying, as I pretty much agree with you.

by sfgfan on Sep 30, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Warner

I keep thinking about Warner, Martz and his offensive schemes and how what the Arizona Cardinals do today – is similar to everything Martz (and consequently Warner) preaches and what everyone is talking about in these threads. So if we look at JTO’s game and try to analyze it – try to look at Warner’s on Sunday…5 sacks, 4 fumbles (3 were lost), 3 interceptions – but then 472 friggin yards, and 70 percent completions and they put up 35 points!!! Now was that success or failure?

by SoquelFan on Sep 30, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some of you guys crack me the "F" up.

JT was the 4th rated passer going into Sunday’s game. He also ranks 7th in passing yards. He’s looked better than perrenial pro-bowlers Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer and Matt Hasselbeck thus far. JTO has the Niners at 2-2 which is no worse than where’d Hill have us.

by methodrampage on Sep 30, 2008 9:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Wrong

I doubt Hill throws for 300+ yards against Seattle. The Niners don’t win that game with Hill at QB.

by methodrampage on Oct 1, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shaun Hill is fucking garbage. There, I said it.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 1, 2008 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gross. He should really try fucking something else.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 1, 2008 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know, right?

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 1, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I can see why they don’t like him, at least. He’s like that weird guy in the back of the bus with a pile of garbage in his lap.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 1, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

He thinks no one knows what he’s doing back there, but they know.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 1, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who's to say...

… he wouldn’t have? It’s not like you have some magic 8 ball that tells you how Hill would have done in O’Sullivan’s place.

I thought I was a super Alex Smith fan, but at least I knew when to call it quits. This is borderline insanity. O’Sullivan’s production is better than any QB the 49ers have seen in YEARS, and that includes Shaun Hill’s two (or three if you want to call it that) games from last season where he played against opponents who didn’t need to put too much pressure on him (or the 49ers).

by sfgfan on Oct 2, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Clearly, I ran a monte carlo simulation and determined that Shaun Hill would be better.

Or, moreso, I’m just bitter that Shaun Hill was never really given a fair chance to win the QB competition and now JTO is turning the ball over like he’s microwaving a burrito.

by Rishi on Oct 2, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do you know he wasn't given a fair chance?

He could have sucked at OTA’s and such. I mean JTO started as the #3 QB and if he was given a chance surely Hill was.

by methodrampage on Oct 2, 2008 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Recall the whole process building upto this?

First, it’s a three-way competition, then a two-way competition, then JTO gets all the snaps in practise, then starts all the preseason games…

Yeah, I don’t think Hill was given a fair shot.

by Rishi on Oct 3, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Based on?

What you read? What you heard? What you saw at practice?

by methodrampage on Oct 3, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I don’t work for the Niners (yet), so I have to go by what I read in the news…

As I’ve stated before, Martz has had a good effect on our offense, but I’m skeptical of his intentions and fear he’s pushing his agenda and self-interest ahead of actually improving the team as much he could.

by Rishi on Oct 3, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

For someone who longs to be a head coach again...

… he had better know that self-interest won’t get him there. I’m sure he does.

by sfgfan on Oct 3, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mean, you explain to me why then did he call passing plays in the red zone when Gore had an average of over five yards per carry in the Saints game? Twice?

by Rishi on Oct 3, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t see how that’s “self” interest. He’s an offensive coordinator who doesn’t believe in the run. It’s his modus operandi. It’s not necessarily him being full of himself (though I won’t discount the idea). It’s just the way his mind works.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 3, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Say it with me, "Rebuilding"

The team is rebuilding. 2-2 is a pleasant surprise, and the team has looked pretty good. During the preseason, we would have expected to have lost to New Orleans. Let’s not overreact.

Also, it’s clear that Shaun Hill was number 3, and a long way from being number 2. With Smith out, this is JTO’s team for the season, barring injury.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM PDT reply actions  

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