Rodgers or Smith Debate Revisited
I know this is the third or fourth article on it today, but it's probably an issue worth discussing. I know Alex Smith was probably the more talented quarterback and Aaron Rodgers might have seem overinflated by the so-called Tedford effect. Given Rodgers's outstanding Monday Night debut, do you guys have any second thoughts about the Smith-Rodgers quarterback debate?
As a Cal fan whose watched Kyle Boller and David Carr thrown into the fire way too early, it's not hard for me to think that Rodgers would have suffered the same way Smith did the past three seasons. Even though I feel a little bad for you guys for the way Smith's been tossed around and never been given the chance to break out, I'm glad Aaron ended up in a situation where the pieces around him were ready for him to lead and succeed.
Do you think Rodgers would've done any better with all the issues the Niners were undergoing the past three seasons, and would he have survived getting sacked and harangued from all sides? Would Alex Smith have developed better in Green Bay behind Brett Favre and emerged just as polished as Aaron was last night? Should the 49ers have even drafted a quarterback given their various personnel and organization problems?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I don’t think Alex would have made it to Green Bay had we not picked him, I’ve heard numerous comments from other teams that had early picks in that draft who were high on Smith and would have taken him. I think for instance Miami said if we didn’t pick him they most surely would have.
That said, who knows how Alex would have turned out if the drafts picks had been rearranged. Would he have been able to put it together under the direction of Favre, I honestly don’t know. There are so many unanswered questions about Alex it is hard to say.
Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal
by 49erLou on Sep 9, 2008 8:14 AM PDT 0 recs
I was always a bigger Rogers fan
It has certainly helped him to be behind Favre for the past few seasons, but I still think he’d have been a better QB than Smith for the 49ers. Just a gut feeling, though.
Just curious what you being a Cal fan and David Carr have to do with each other? He played for Fresno State, and looked much more impressive and ready for the NFL than Smith.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 9, 2008 8:22 AM PDT 0 recs
I know you and I disagree on Smith and all...
… but I just don’t see how any rookie QB with no veteran leadership to speak of survives through the same situation (re: revolving door at offensive coordinator) Smith went through his first four seasons. It’s almost an unheard of situation, really.
by sfgfan on
Sep 9, 2008 8:45 AM PDT
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Wasn’t Carr a Tedford product? I think that’s the connection.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Sep 9, 2008 1:22 PM PDT
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As were Trent Dilfer and I believe Akili Smith.
But I always thought the mistake was thinking they had to take a QB in that draft. Take a D player, let the offense continue to suck and worry about it the next year. Obviously with hindsight the winning answer was Shawne Merriman. Using a Top 10 pick on a TE the very next year (NEVER use a first round pick on a TE, how many times do teams have to learn this lesson?) was beyond unbelievable, however.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on
Sep 10, 2008 7:45 PM PDT
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You always gotta root
for a kid from Chico!
MURS for President!!!!!!!
by jtoj on Sep 9, 2008 9:03 AM PDT 0 recs
If Rodgers were taken by, say, the Dolphins…
He wouldn’t be where he is today.
by Rishi on Sep 9, 2008 9:11 AM PDT 0 recs
Screw this, let's have a REAL competition!
Who is the better quarterback, Aaron Rodgers or Howtheyscored? Sure, Rodgers played QB in college and probably high school, and he had three years to sit behind Brett Favre, learning an offensive system, and had a reasonably competent offense in place around him.
But Howtheyscored is sort of an adult, he’s somewhere in his early 20’s (I think), never played a professional snap of football in the NFL, and probably didn’t play in college either.
Sure, on the surface, you’d have to say that Rodgers is the better quarterback. But I’m putting my money on Howtheyscored. Of course, since Howie doesn’t play football professionally, and the circumstances of his playing career are completely different from that of Rodgers, we’ll never know, will we? But right now, I’ll bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not drafting Howie when they had the chance.
Can we please stop this BS about A-Rod being the greatest quarterback ever? It’s one frickin’ game! His career record is now 1-0. That’s one more win for his career so far than Howie has, and he has the exact same number of losses.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 9, 2008 2:13 PM PDT 0 recs
I AM THE GREETEST!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Sep 9, 2008 2:52 PM PDT
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Who said Rodgers was the greatest quarterback ever? It’s just a discussion about the merits and demerits of drafting Smith over Rodgers.
by BearsNecessity on
Sep 9, 2008 5:46 PM PDT
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I think it’s just something that some Niners fans have had flossed through their ears a few too many times in the last 3+ years.
I think that what it comes down to is that, if anything, the decision between Smith and Rodgers at the time of the selection was too close to call, which is to say that at the time of their drafting the merits of picking one over the other differed so minutely that you couldn’t reasonably build an argument that either player should have been drafted over the other, and that their respective, and massively disparate situations since that time have created an unbridgeable gap which retrospect can’t… er… build a bridge stable enough to cross.
At the time, there was no way to say that either one was more likely than the other to succeed in the NFL based just on the basis of pure scouting (taking the “anyone can flame out” argument as a GIVEN, this is to say that the scouting on which player was more likely to flame out didn’t exist the two were so close), and since then there’s no way to say that either one would have succeeded in the other’s shoes.
Bemoaning over Rodgers is just a way to feel sorry for ourselves, and bemoaning over Alex Smith is something many of us have been tired of doing for a while now.
I know where JR is coming from. As a 49ers fan, it’s the kind of topic that can get very tired to burn through again and again.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Sep 9, 2008 6:02 PM PDT
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That's what I said
Just far more eloquently. It’s smarts like this that lead me to believe Howtheyscored is a better quarterback than Aaron Rodgers.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 9, 2008 8:12 PM PDT
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Poll results
We can argue over Smith vs. Rodgers ad infinitum. And it looks like we very well might… especially if this shoulder injury effectively ends Smith’s career and Rodgers goes on to even a modicum of NFL success. But if you look at the poll results, the vast majority of people here seem to think that neither was the correct answer.
If I recall correctly, at the time of the draft, the Niners were trying to trade the top pick… but no one wanted it. It was the organization’s bad luck to get the top pick in the draft the one year where there was no surefire answer. A year earlier and we’d have Eli Manning… a year later and we could have chosen Reggie Bush, Mario Williams, or the QB du jour.
I’ve never really understood the need to draft a franchise QB with the number one pick. Generally, if you’re that bad, you have so many needs that QB really can’t be your focus. I’d much rather use my top pick that year on some sort of defensive or offensive line impact player, and then try to pick up a QB in the middle of the first round the next year.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Sep 10, 2008 6:50 AM PDT 0 recs
Bad luck and QB @#1
You touch on two very interesting subjects in your comment. First of all, the “bad luck” the 49ers faced in having the #1 pick in 2005. I think it’s very interesting that there really wasn’t any standout prospect (in terms of taking a player #1) that year. What’s even more interesting is that if the 49ers falter again this season, it’ll be one of those seasons where having one of the top picks may suck as well. It doesn’t seem like, yet, that there are any stand-out players that are sure-fire top 5s, are there?
On a slight sidebar, taking Eli the year before would have been pretty messed up as well. But that may just be my anti-bias for him, much like howtheyscored’s anti-bias toward Brady Quinn (though I share a similar opinion there as well).
As for taking a QB #1, I can kind of see both sides of the coin. I think I’ve gone through this rationalization on this site before, but I’ll do it again anyhow. For a new regime that is coming into a team/system that the 49ers had (or rather, didn’t have), they had to start somewhere. I think that it’s a fairly common understanding that a quarterback probably takes the longest to develop (in terms of return on investment) out of all potential draftees. With that in mind, a team that is AT LEAST two or three seasons away (in terms of rebuilding) could take a QB first so that he gets a head start in learning a system over his eventual teammates/targets. The 49ers took a very smart QB that had a lot of physical ability #1 probably with the thinking that he’d have a couple of years to develop. The team had already brought aboard an offensive coordinator who previously was touted as a VERY good quarterbacks coach (McCarthy). I don’t think anyone would have envisioned a QB coach ascending from QB-coach to coordinator to head coach in a matter of two years, do you? They probably thought that Smith would have had at least two or three years to develop under McCarthy, so taking him wasn’t necessarily unsound.
I’m not saying that always taking a potential franchise QB at #1 should always be the call for a team that practically has 53 glaring needs out of 53 roster spots. I’m just saying that I can kind of understand why Nolan and McCloughan (and probably McCarthy) considred Smith and Rodgers at #1 for that draft. I think that I’ve said before that even looking back, I may have still taken Smith if I was a part of the 49ers front-office, but I completely understand the love for a guy like Braylon Edwards as well. In my honest opinion, I don’t think the Smith vs Rodgers evaluation was as close as howtheyscored made it sound in his comment a few spots up. I think that most teams “clearly” saw Smith as the better prospect. I’ve heard that Miami supposedly said they would have taken him if he were available, and I think someone else here told me before, also, that he wouldn’t have made it out of the top 5 or 6 because someone else would have taken him. I don’t remember where it was written and I’m too lazy to use the search feature.
Just imagine this, though: if another team was willing to take the risk on Frank Gore late in the second round that year, the 49ers’ 2005 draft would be looking like a complete failure right now.
by sfgfan on
Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM PDT
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Swapping places
Let’s suppose Aaron Rodgers was the first draft pick overall, and Alex Smith fell all the way down to the Packers at the 24th-ish spot. Who in their right mind would actually believe that Rodgers’ career arc would look all that different from Alex Smith’s?
People, don’t buy into the ESPN hype that the Niners made a mistake and drafted the wrong guy. Rodgers came from an offensive system that was known to produce quarterback busts, and fell all the way to the Packers for a reason. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but in this case, I think even hindsight wears glasses and is clinically blind. Rodgers has had advantages that Alex Smith hasn’t had, and more importantly… HE’S 1-0 IN HIS CAREER!!! That’s one more pro win than all of us on Niner Nation have combined!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM PDT
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Actually, I'm Jim Drunkenmiller
Just FYI
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on
Sep 10, 2008 6:16 PM PDT
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Hey, that was MY former NN name!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 10, 2008 7:50 PM PDT
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Alex Smith is a borderline bust...
But it’s not a fair comparison. The fact is these two “grew up” on different sides of the train tracks. Alex was thrown into a crappy situation on a crappy team with crappy decision makers, and he just wasn’t true NFL caliber to start with (not that it’s necessary to be successful in this league, but I’d argue it’s necessary to become a truly elite QB). Rodgers had been groomed and tutored for years by people who care (about more than their own careers) before starting his first pro game, and now he’s a rising star. The differences couldn’t be more stark between these two. That being said- do I prefer the souped up Civic lovingly upgraded by its owner over the years to the same model bought by a car rental company and abused for years by various drivers? You bet your ass I do… in retrospect.
Nothing new here. Just my .02
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
by LA49er on Sep 10, 2008 10:40 AM PDT 0 recs
I’m curious who it is you’re referring to from the Niners that cared about their own careers more than they cared about Alex Smith’s development. I’d almost assume you mean McCarthy and Turner, since they left for head coaching jobs. Which is ironic, since McCarthy is the HC of the Packers.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 10, 2008 10:55 AM PDT
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Funny
I think McCarthy actually said at some point that Alex is/was the better prospect. Of course, he probably said this as a member of the 49ers coaching staff and he has to fluff things a little, but that goes to show how flimsy words to the press can be. You’d be darned wrong to think that McCarthy didn’t go up the Rodgers and say something like “I was just saying that because they employed me.”
In any case, LA49er may have also been how Nolan perceivably threw Smith under the bus last season to protect himself.
by sfgfan on
Sep 10, 2008 11:08 AM PDT
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If picked by the 49ers, Rodgers would have been thrown into the fire just like Smith was. Like Smith, he’d probably be considerably banged up by now.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 10, 2008 11:50 AM PDT 0 recs
You can put a tutu and lipstick on Alex Smith and make him ride a unicycle, or make Aaron Rodgers juggle flaming bowling pins and jump through hoola-hoops. Either way, they would have both been employed by a traveling circus. It would all have been the same.
The 49er’s brass owes Alex a public apology and I hate to say it, but I’m glad he’s still going to make money on this situation. It’s the least the York’s could do for screwing up a talented kid’s future.
"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh
by TripTheNinja on Sep 10, 2008 4:39 PM PDT 0 recs
The Yorks and the 49ers owe him an apology?
Aside from the whole “misunderstanding” debacle from last year, no one really owes anyone an apology. The major detriments to Smith’s first four years of his career have very little to do with the 49ers, the Yorks, Mike Nolan, or Scot McCloughan. To lazy to go through it here, but see the comments section in the post on ownership in the main section of this site.
by sfgfan on
Sep 10, 2008 4:49 PM PDT
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That’s why God gave us Copy and Paste, sfgfan!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 10, 2008 5:42 PM PDT
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sfgfan..
I’m not a Smith backer. I’m calling it the way I see it based on this topic. Without going back to read the posting, I can see your point. So strike my ‘apology’ comment.
On this national stage, these kids/rookies rely on their team to handle them correctly. Every team has it’s trials, it’s how they accept the responsibility and handle it is what matters. I hope that Smith goes on to a team that can make him a star. Rodgers is very lucky to have an organization that did it on the first try. (So far, McCarthy has to be wiping some sweat off his brow.) And I hope the Niner’s learn from this and take a COLOSSAL step in the right direction. This circus need to turn itself into Cirque. I love success stories and I hope there’s three of them right here.
"We'd like to think that tickets will be hard to come by." Bill Walsh
by TripTheNinja on Sep 10, 2008 6:36 PM PDT 0 recs
Trip, when replying to comments...
You should use the Reply link under someone’s post. That way, it keeps the conversation flowing properly.
Just FYI.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 10, 2008 7:54 PM PDT
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It wouldnt have mattered who we picked
Because even if we had picked Rodgers, Nolan would have ruined his career too. The worse thing was that when we had the first pick the draft was so weak, we really should have traded down, but instead we proved then that, that was the start of poor drafting. With a few exceptions such as Willis, Gore and maybe a few others, our drafting has been terrible for some time now.
by pbra17 on Sep 10, 2008 6:50 PM PDT 0 recs
Honestly...
… what team was interested in trading up? People keep saying the team should have traded down, which IS true. However, it takes two to trade, as you can’t just force a #1 overall pick on another team like you can in Madden.
The team (and especially the new regime) needed to get value for it’s #1 pick. No other team in the league was willing to provide that, so the team took it’s chances with the player it thought was the best player in the draft (or at least the player McCloughan thought was the best player, according to Matt Maiocco).
by sfgfan on
Sep 12, 2008 8:51 AM PDT
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At the time.....
I wanted them to pick Rogers, but honestly he would have had most of the same struggles. Alex, had he been drafted by a team that had a clue, would be doing fine right now. He was thrown into a situation that stunk, and he wasn’t up to the task. But in all fairness, I don’t think there are too many QBs that could have made it through the junk he has gone through. When he is healthy, another team will take a chance on him, and get a good young QB. It will be interesting to see how he develops in an organization that knows what they are doing.
by illini49er on Sep 11, 2008 11:00 AM PDT 0 recs
we were screwed no matter what
I liked Rodgers better at the time but I agree that he would have been just as bad given the circumstances. Smith didn’t stand a chance. I also thought at the time that we should draft Braylon and wait to take VY (or Leinart or whoever) the next year. I don’t think you should waste the #1 pick by drafting for need over talent. There were better players in the draft ,and they should have take one of them.
It also bothers me that in the last few years they didn’t take any 2nd or 3rd round QBs – who knows, we might have found a gem. Now we’re back to square 1, and we’ll probably draft another shitty QB in the first round this year and live to regret it.
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Sep 11, 2008 11:37 AM PDT 0 recs
Nothing to add here...
it wouldn’t have mattered… had Rodgers been drafted we’d still be having the same discussion.
Jimmy McGinty: You know what separates the winners from the losers?
Shane Falco: The score.
Jimmy McGinty: No, getting back on the horse after getting kicked in the teeth.
by AnotherNinerFan on Sep 11, 2008 11:48 AM PDT 0 recs
















