Free Agent Targets for the '09 Offseason
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 13, 2009 9:06 AM PST
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Greetings.
So i'm posting this thread to get an idea of who's going to be out there this offseason as it pertains to our position needs. I don't know who's contract is running out next season, so my suggestions are to point out the caliber player I'd like to see us go after, not the specific player.
Free Safety: After watching Mini Mark Roman come humming in on Redskins QB Jason Campbell in week 17, hit him square in the chest, and go spinning off, clearly, the most glaring need this offseason in my opinion is a physical free safety. I'd like to see us go after someone in the vein of Ed Reed or a younger Brian Dawkins.
Nose Tackle: Patrick Willis had solid season, but without a big, nasty Nose Tackle to draw double teams and put pressure on the opposition's QB, I don't believe we'll see his full potential. Balmer was a bust. Mediocre at best. Did someone say Tommy Harris? I did.
Wide Reciever: I've heard some tasty titles like Ocho and Housh. Personally, I think we're pretty healthy in the WR departmant. Bruce can still produce on a very high level.Our young guys, Morgan and Hill have so much potential it's scares me. Josh Morgan looks like the second coming of Anquan Boldin. And speaking of Anquan. He had contract issues early in the year. Now he's injured and they are in the playoffs. Their situation reminds me of Shockey and the Giants last season. If someone like that comes around, I say we should jump on him.
Offensive LG, RT: This is right up the 49er's alley. They have had great success with veteran free agent linemen in the past. I.E. Larry Allen, Jonas Jennings and Ron Stone. In my humble opinion, this is our biggest need outside of a boss free safety. Imagine the running game if we picked up someone like Faneca last season. And the pass portection? It's a double whammy!
Other thoughts:
Corner to replace Walt Harris: Lito Sheppard? Yes please.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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So...
You want players with the talent levels of: Ed Reed, Tommie Harris, Anquan Boldin, and Alan Faneca as upgrades to our team, along with Lito Sheppard to replace Walt?
Got it…
sounds good to me. But can we get Peyton Manning too while we’re at it? Or at least someone LIKE him?
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
I heard a rumor
The Niners might trade Frank Gore for Tom Brady!
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
I get it...
Realistically, I could only see us getting 2 big name free agents. and with the cap room, what’s wrong with assuming we might make a run at a premier Safety or Nose Tackle. Rampage, it’s not a shopping list. Sam, you’re so funny… … … … … NOT! haha i kid. Borat status.
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 13, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Fair Enough
Why don’t you do a little research and see who the free agents to be are and then throw their names out there so that we can try to have a real discussion.
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve tried to look it up before, and had trouble finding anything of substance. The point of this post, as I stated clearly in the first paragraph was to, in affect, do some research. To be honest, when I stumbled accross this sight, I was so excited to find a place full of knowledgable Niner fans. Someone posted some awesome links that were more than helpful and I appreciate that. In any case, this has been a wonderful thread and I’ve enjoyed you’re responses thoroughly.
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 13, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
whoa
no way will singletary let that happen, coach wants to have a smash mouth running game and what better running back is there than frank “the tank” gore.
by onexmanxshow49 on Jan 13, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
That is soooo....
old. Don’t you have anything else better to say?
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Jan 13, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
I meant this.
The Niners might trade Frank Gore for Tom Brady!
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Jan 13, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
Yes. Precisely...
Or maybe i was asking to see who would be out there next season. Obviously, we won’t be able to fill each and every position i mentioned. And obviously, Ed Reed and Tommie Harris are not going into free agency anytime soon. I just want some names to get excited about.
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 13, 2009 9:34 AM PST reply actions
And obviously, Ed Reed and Tommie Harris are not going into free agency anytime soon. I just want some names to get excited about
So youre trying to give us free agency blue balls?.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
I hear Matt Ryan is on the open market
and also, O.J. Atogwe
(actually, I think that second one is for reals)
Biggest need...
… is possibly a offensive guard? Even if you’re saying the biggest need is a right tackle I would be in serious disagreement.
The biggest need for this team is help in the front seven. Of the seven positions (or eight if the team insists on continuing to run some 3-4/4-3 hybrid), only two of them are set in stone and that’s Justin Smith at DE and Patrick Willis at ILB. The other 5 (or 6) positions are currently filled by players who haven’t lived up to potential or just flat out suck.
If the team is going to run a 3-4, the single biggest need would probably be a stout nose tackle. I don’t know a whole lot about the upcoming draft class, but a guy like Haynesworth should be able to fill the role for the next few years.
If the team is going to run a 4-3, their single biggest need would then become a pass rushing 4-3 DE. Again, I don’t know a whole lot about what’s available, though.
In the end, the biggest needs are on defense. The offensive line showed at the end of the last season they may be able to perform in the offense Singletary envisions. While picking up a guard or a tackle would be great, I’d say that using a 3rd or 4th round pick on one would probably be the better bet for the 49ers.
Needless to say, their top picks and (big) free agent dollars should be spent trying to solve their issues in the defensive front seven.
3-4/4-3
Since Singletary took over, they’ve switched to almost strictly a 3-4 (minus certain nickel/dime situations). I don’t believe they’re running that hybrid anymore.
by David Fucillo on Jan 13, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Still.
That was last season. Personnel-wise, the 49ers are a better fit in a 4-3. Unless they acquire a NT, I hope they commit to a 4-3.
again
how do you see that front seven in a 4-3? Smith, Sopoaga, Balmer, McDonald across the front four with Lawson Willis and Haralson at LB? or Spikes? or move Lawson to DE? I’m curious, I dont think thats probably much worse than our front 7 last year but I dont see how its better and the move COULD make some of those guys worse (ie we dont know how Willis would adjust to the 4-3) I still say our best bet is to address the NT hole. I like Franklin as a backup but I dont think he’ll ever be a starting nose for a good defense.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
Basically (in an oversimplified manner)
One of two things needs to happen.
1. If the team stays with a 3-4: Find a true NT.
2. If the team moves to a 4-3: Find a pass rushing DE.
It’s usually easier to find a 4-3 passhing DE than it is to find a 3-4 NT.
Smith and McDonald are probably better suited for the 4-3 scheme. Agreed?
Balmer is probably better suited for the 4-3. Agreed?
Sopoaga and Franklin aren’t much more than serviceable NT in a 3-4. Agreed?
Sopoaga and Franklin probably aren’t any worse at playing a 4-3 DT than they are a 3-4 NT. Agreed?
Lawson could probably play DE on pashing downs. Agreed?
For your ultimate pass rushing downs Lawson could probably play DE and Smith could slide down to DT. Agreed?
I think it’s safe to say that Willis’ adjustment to a 4-3 in going to be minimal. Instead of his TED LB taking on blockers his extra DT is taking on blockers. As long as you’re not a “tweener” playing a “tweenie” position the adjustment from a 3-4 to a 4-3 should be pretty easy. I don’t really see where the Niners would likely see a down grade from moving to a 4-3.
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
This pretty much nails my argument.
Method pretty much explains my argument pretty well.
I truly think the 49ers have tons of 4-3 DTs. Just off the top of my head, Sopoaga, Franklin, and Balmer all probably all better suited as 4-3 DTs.
With that said, Justin Smith is obviously going to stay at 4-3 DE, as he’s being paid to be that. The other DE spot is open to competition, with Ray McDonald probably filling in rather well there.
In pass rushing situations, Smith could slide inside alongside Sopoaga/Balmer/Franklin. That frees up the edge for a pass rusher the team may acquire or guys like Rod Green and Parys Haralson.
In my vision of the 49ers 4-3, Manny Lawson probably stays standing as the strong-side OLB with pretty much the same assignment he has now. The only position that is slightly different is the weak-side OLB spot, which could probably be occupied by Spikes for next year while the 49ers find someone else to fill it after that.
As method points out, I strongly believe it is A LOT easier to find a 4-3 pass-rusher than it is to find a 3-4 nose tackle. Even if the 49ers find a 3-4 nose tackle, they would have to find a 3-4 OLB that can rush the passer, which is pretty difficult to do as well. With that said, it’s clearly easier to fill one position that’s difficult to fill than trying to fill two of them.
OLB specialists added
I think this is the biggest sign of the defense concentrating on the 3-4 scheme.
My thoughts on 2009 lineup:
FS: Goldson or William Moore (3rd round-Missouri)
SS: M. Lewis
LCB: Harris/ Brown
RCB: Clements
LOLB: Lawson/ Everrette Brown (1st round-FS State)
ROLB: Harylson
Mike: Willis
Ted: Spikes
LDE: Smith
RDE: McDonald/ Sopoaga/ Balmer
NT: Franklin/ Roy Miller (2nd Round-Texas)
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
It does look like the Niners are going to stick with the 3-4
I just don’t think it’s the best move and Singletary probably doesn’t want to completely put his neck out there by starting from scratch, as far as coordinators go, with both the offense and defense. Manusky is a 3-4 guy so if the Niners went to a 4-3 they’d probably be in the market for a new DC.
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree that Smith is better suited to a 4-3 and that Lawson could play DE on passing downs. Its possible that Lawson could be ull that off, but he could its no certainty. The rest youre probably right on, but I still dont see any dramatic improvement.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
"I disagree that Smith is better suited to a 4-3"
Care to elaborate why? He’s certaining not built like a 3-4 DE.
but I still dont see any dramatic improvement
This is kind of the point. You’re not really losing anything but in theory it’ll be easier to improve the defense as a 4-3.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:14 AM PST up reply actions
He seemed suited to the hybrid role he played last year. He’s never been a dynamic player who should be counted on to pile up huge sack #‘s Granted, I only saw him play a couple games in a Bengal uni, but he looked better to me here, in this role, than he looked in his past 3 seasons playing a 4-3 DE in Cincy. I like the 4-3 better, I’m not saying we absolutely shouldnt go back, I’m just saying it raises a lot of questions for the guys already on the roster and I think we would be better off investing in a monster NT and sticking with the 3-4.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
basically I’m for sticking with the 3-4 for the same reasons I was for sticking with the 4-3 when Nolan arrived, unless youre gonna completely rebuild from the ground up stick with what you know.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
first off...
i just want to say i posted this argument on here 2 years ago exactly and people ripped it up…
I think Sopoaga could be a way better NT than Franklin but he’s a better playmaker so they put him on the edge and let franklin be the one to just sit there and be fat.
You are not gonna ask Smith(one of you hardest working players) to bump down and play DT on passing down… he might do it bc he’s such a team player but he wants sacks like every person that has ever played DE. Let the big dog eat.
Smith isn't exactly a sack master
I think I’ve seen him bumping down to DT earlier this year when Nolan was doing his 3-4/4-3 hybrid. In you’re ultimate passing downs you’re DT are still going to be rushing the passer. Smith is a well rounded player but raking up sack isn’t really his forte.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:11 AM PST up reply actions
BTW, a lot of things change in two years. So what was relevant then might not be relevant now.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:15 AM PST up reply actions
not really.....
i saw all this coming…… mainly bc im the all knowing …. we brought in nolan to bring the ravens with him…. you need to hit in the draft…. that much hasnt changed… and its not easy to do and i believe that is the main argument for switching to a 4-3…. and i knew all the personnel would work and finding OLB and NT would be hard…. so nothing has changed.
I'm speaking more of people opinions
What was thought to be dumb two years ago might not be thought to be dumb now. Reality and failure have a way of changing people’s minds.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Sopoaga...
… really doesn’t play on the edge. As a 3-4 DE, he’s more of a 4-3 DT than he is a “edge” DE.
Smith is a hard worker, and I think that’s why he’s good in the middle on passing downs. He has to get to the QB, and the work in there is a lot more difficult than outside on the edge. His non-stop motor fits there. No one else that’s labeled as a defensive lineman right now fits better at 4-3 DT on passing downs than Smith. On rushing downs, that’s a totally different situation.
No 3-4 pleeaaasee!!
Yea I don’t think Patrick Willis would be as effective with another ILB by his side. He has outstanding range. For instance, a few mock drafts have us taking Rey Maualuga in the 1st. If we did so then that would mean a commitment to a 3-4. But the two monsters would be stealing assignments and getting in each other’s way.. It happened in Baltimore with Ray Lewis…
really?
We played strictly 3-4 the last half of the season and a good chunk of the first half of the season.
by David Fucillo on Jan 16, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
It's a team sport...
… and these guys are professionals. You don’t make it on the field by “stealing” assignments, especially if the person you’re trying to “steal” from is a Pro Bowler and former rookie of the year.
sometimes it happens
Your whole life you have been a beast and through every level the coach has told u to find the ball…. u want to bring a star that went to USC like Maualuga here and tell him to take on blockers and let willis make the play?… those guys get locked in and find the ball and go for it.
Professionals?… for one Maualuga is a kid that wears a bikini to practice…. for two… most these guys have the IQ of a door knob… they can play bc they are freak athletes but i knew some stud guys in college that could play but to have a conversation with them is like pulling teeth… someone could throw a steak and they would take off running…. Vick was a professional but he’s too stupid to not openly fight dogs … but a house and put a million dogs in a million dollar home. That doesnt stick out much. Pac Man is the dumbest guy alive… i mean the list goes on so im not handing out any “professional” points… at the end of the day they are there bc "sometime, somewhere someone noticed they could go get the ball.
Clarify
I’m not saying they have to be smart to figure out that coaches like it when you stick to your assignment. I know very little of Maualuga (or most draft prospects this year), so I don’t know what his personality is like.
Basically, all I’m saying is that if the 49ers took Maualuga, I’m sure they would have pre-screened him and made sure he’s capable of playing Willis’ sidekick.
A quick 15 second search on google reveals...
Free agent DL
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/dl.html
LB
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/lb.html
DB
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/db.html
Notables include Julius Peppers, Albert Haynewsworth, Terrell Suggs, Nmamdi Asomugha, and Brian Dawkins.
Also, I wouldn’t call Jonas Jennings a “great success.”
Nmamdi would cost a lot more than Clements did
and he’s likely to get franchise tagged this offseason.
I don’t know if Peppers is a 3-4 DE.
Haynesworth = another bank breaker
Suggs… open to debate
Nice to see someone throw out some legitimate names, though. It’s just unfortunate that the market doesn’t seem to be particularly favorable to our needs going into this offseason. At least not yet.
Well
Asomugha is a beast, but he’s gonna be franchised, like you said… Peppers too, but he’s getting older and I really dont think he’d fit our system (although he’s a beast)
Haynesworth is interesting but I dont wanna shell out huge money on someone like him… Suggs I would take… he’s talented… but he might get franchised too…
If I could take my pick of a few FA’s/Draft pickups, I’d start with Atogwe, get someone like chris canty, then draft a FS and a RT in the draft… Maybe a future QB too because it’s my dream…
by JerseyNinerFan on Jan 13, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
Whoops
Didnt mean FS there… meant RB… Frankie needs a breather..
by JerseyNinerFan on Jan 13, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
Well..
We are getting rid of Foster and I feel that we will finally see Thomas Clayton this year. Hopefully he performs well enough to take alot of those snaps off of Gore.. And we need to start using Vernon Davis as a lead blocker!!! I truly believe he would be a monster in our backfield. The 49ers have a truckload of TE’s (If they feel Bajema is worth the $$$).
If the team...
… goes to a 4-3, Peppers would be a pretty good fit. I think the safest bet would be to go after Haynesworth. Even if the team decides to switch from the 3-4 this year or any of the next handful of years, he should be able to adjust to both schemes. Peppers fits only one on, and in my opinion, Suggs really only fits in one, too.
There is such a huge amount of quality front 7 Defensive in Free Agency...
that I think we should definitely pick one (or two) up. Going through the draft for a DE/DT is cool and all but history has shown that even the #1 pick overall (ex. Mario Williams) take 2-3 years to develop. Same goes for outside linebackers, who specialize in pass rushing. More often than not, even high end talent in these position, take a while to get acclimated to the NFL. I mean with such huge/solid talents like Julius Peppers, Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs, Bertrand Berry, Rocky Bernard, Jovan Haye, Chris Canty, Kenechi Udeze, Bart Scott, Michael Boley, Leroy Hill, and Angelo Crowell coming out this year just when it comes to pass rushing OLBs/and D-lineman, Why would you take a guy in the draft?
By the way, does any one else think it would be awesome if we had Brandon Jacobs and F. Gore in the back field? Just throwing it out.
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 11:05 AM PST reply actions
"Why would you take a guy in the draft?"
Genius! Let’s forego the draft (maybe we can trade all our draft picks for Roy Williams) and just stick to signing free agents.
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
I meant with the first round pick and on a DT/DE/OLB
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Ok
Would you care to enlighten me on what positions don’t take 2-3 years to develop?
BTW, Mario Williams (as a 21 year old), you’re choice example, took 1 year to develop. Peppers took 0 years to develop.
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
If you are lookiung for an immediate starter...
Defensive Ends/Tackles and Pass Rushing OLB’s usually don’t make an impact their first season, and most don’t start.
Here are a list of guys DE/DT/“Pass Rushing” OLBs who were first round picks who have either taken time to develop and are current starters and who weren’t near Probowl caliber players their first year or are no longer in the league (list from 2004-2006 Drafts).
Haloti Ngata
Thomas Davis
Travis Johnson
David Pollack
Erasmus James
Marcus Spears
Mike Patterson
Mario Williams
Ernie Sims
Brodrick Bunkley
Chad Greenway
Kamerion Wimbley
Bobby Carpenter
Manny Lawson
John McCargo
Mathias Kiwanuka
Tommie Harris
Kenechi Udeze
Vince Wilfork
Marcus Tubbs
Jason Babin
Derrick Johnson
Here are the players who made immediate impacts (04-06 Drafts):
DeMarcus Ware
Shawn Merriman
Luis Castillo
Tamba Hali
Will Smith
*These lists shows that a little more than a 4 to 1 ratio of DE/DT/“Pass Rushing” OLBs do not perform to near pro bowl quality in their first or two years.
Now once again what I was trying to illustrate in my original post is that because of the Free Agency depth of DL and Pass Rushing OLBs this year I think we would get better quality with faster results by signing one (or two) of these free agents and passing on that position in the draft. I am not saying that it doesn’t take awhile for players to develop, what I am saying (and drilling to death) is that I would rather take a OL, S, WR, RB,or a MLB with the 10th overall pick where there is not as much quality in free agency than take a Brian Orakpo with the near same money we could have signed a J. Peppers, T. Suggs, or a Michael Boley.
BTW Mario Williams did it his second season, Soooo that makes it 2 years.
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Some of the guys are debatable listed above but generally the ratio is the same
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
"who weren’t near Probowl caliber players their first year"
Yeah, ok, what rookies are Pro Bowl caliber players their first year?
*These lists shows that a little more than a 4 to 1 ratio of DE/DT/"Pass Rushing" OLBs do not perform to near pro bowl quality in their first or two years.
Do the research, I bet every position looks similar.
But I’m pretty sure if the Niners spend big money on a FA then they’re not going to use their first round pick on the same position (this should go without saying).
by methodrampage on Jan 13, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
I know,
And that’s the case I’ve been making, HELLO? Why would you pass up on 6-8 pro-bowl caliber (or close to) free agents to take a DE/DT/“Pass Rushing” OLB with your first pick. That’s the only case I’ve been making, you’re the one who brought up other positions. This is the crutch of my original argument:
“With so much high quality DL/`Pass Rushing’ OLBs in free agency why would you take a risk on a guy with your first pick, when most rookies don’t make an immediate impact their first year?”
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Also... BRANDON JACOBS IS A FREE AGENT LETS MAKE HIM A 9ER!!!
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather have Derrick Ward
Who is also a FA.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:20 AM PST up reply actions
Doesn't FA happen before the draft?
So I’m sure most teams try to address they’re biggest needs via free agency but if they can’t they’ll look to address those areas of need in the draft. I don’t think anybody is advocating that the Niners ignore the “potential” free agents and only look for DL/OLB help in the draft.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:19 AM PST up reply actions
There are kind of two stages to FA
The first comes at the official end of the season – players with completed contracts hit the markets and teams look to address their most pressing needs.
The second comes after the draft, when teams start putting together their final rosters and work out their (sometimes massive) salary cap issues. This is when a lot of players who either had big contracts that were costing their franchise or guys who have been deemed expendable after the first wave of free agency and the draft get cut loose. You can sometimes find some big name and/or quality players during this stage.
Yeah but you'd be a fool
to wait until after the draft to fill areas of need via free agency.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
yes, you would
But no one is saying you should “wait” – I’m just pointing out that free agency doesn’t end before the draft. You shouldn’t jump the gun and overpay mediocre players out of the early stages, because you just never know what might become available.
Takeo Spikes > Dontarrius Thomas, amirite?
actually there is three waves
1. players who get cut that are under contract are free to sign with teams immediately(bruce)
2. players whos contracts expire when free agency opens(smith)
3. after draft filling of needs(spikes)
Jacobs and Gore
are both power backs. They’re also both really good, meaning we’d be splitting some very expensive carries.
I’m more for a quicker, more elusive guy to add to the backfield. You need that change of pace, otherwise defenses can settle in on one running style, even if it happens to come from two different ballcarriers.
A blind suggestion: Isn’t Pierre Thomas a free agent? He did great things in New Orleans this year when Reggie Bush went down. Granted the Saints may want to hold on to him considering Reggie’s inability to be a feature back and Deuce’s likely departure…but if Thomas is available, I’d like to see us at least take a look.
Wow, I didn't know Pierre Thomas was a free agent...
That might be an interesting scenario. Hey I would love to see our very own Earth, Wind, and Fire here in the Bay. I may be tripping balls here but I would love to see all three of those RBs here, but honestly, If we got Jacobs, I really would consider trading away Frank Gore and drafting a fast RB in the third round (Who could do Kick Returns) or seeing what Clayton can do.
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Eh..
I don’t know if I’d spend decent money on a player like Pierre Thomas, but if he were to come (moderately) cheap, I would sign up for him being our backup…
Jacobs I think is helped greatly by that fantastic O-Line that the Giants have, as is Ward.. I’d stay away from both of them.. I think I would take Bradshaw off that team before I’d take either Ward or Jacobs..
Now, if you were to say that the Niners should draft a home run threat like CJ Spiller if he’d fall to the 3rd? I’d take him over any of them…
by JerseyNinerFan on Jan 14, 2009 5:22 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
If we got Jacobs, I really would consider trading away Frank Gore
This doesn’t make any sense. You sign Jacobs to a big deal and then trade away a better running back who’s already signed (for cheaper) thru 2011. Now you’ve got to deal with the cap penalties of trading Gore. So know you’ve gotten worse at RB and have spent a bunch more money. Great idea.
Why not just keep Gore and draft a fast RB in the round?
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
Jacobs
1. Jacobs is a beast but i dont know if he’d want to come to the niners bc i think he has a chip on his shoulder about being the man. Obviously here he’d split carries and probably get the lighter load.
2. He would cost us…. a lot.
3. Gore is not a power back. Did u see us get stuffed on the goaline a million times last year? I know our O-line isnt great but Jacobs would have gotten in. I love gore and his strengths are vision, patience and he never gives up on a play. He’s tuff but not a power back. I think we would be unstoppable if we signed Jacobs too and i think Sing would love a hard nosed guy like jacobs.
4. No way we are signing Thomas… why sign avg guys? Might as well draft one and take the chance he becomes better than avg.
"why sign avg guys?"
I think Pierre Thomas is probably better than average. He’s the one that kept Mendenhall on the bench at Illinois.
Might as well draft one and take the chance he becomes better than avg.
Well, because rookies have just a good of a chance at being below average than they do at being above average. Might as well take the known commidoty, if it’s not too expensive.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 7:25 AM PST up reply actions
ok...
in college…. older guys keep younger guys on the bench all the time…. thats the way it is…. thurman thomas kept barry sanders on the bench… thomas is a hall of famer but he was no sanders….. doesnt mean anything …. i dont think pierre is anything special… i dont want him… thats just my opinion… only time will tell. Pierre thomas would have little impact on the 49ers.
Thomas is better than Mendendall
Just wait.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
worst example ever
your only example of this is a hall of famer starting in front of another hall of famer?
examples
im not gonna sit here and give examples… every running back in the nfl has been a backup in college (unless u started from freshman year)… and who’s to say that they weren’t backups bc the coach was an idiot. Willie Parker was a permanent backup… im just saying u cant say bc Mendenhall road pine behind Thomas doesnt mean squat… not one thing
Pierre Thomas is far better than "average"
And for you to say he’s nothing special is clear evidence, to me, that you did not see the Saints play anyone but us.
He’s no superstar, but that’s kind of the point. We don’t have the money to add another feature back, so if you look for a guy through free agency then your target is a reliable, versatile back who can provide relief for your starter to the tune of 100-150 carries a season. In that sense, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a guy on the market who better fits that description than Pierre Thomas.
Pierre
If you watched Thomas as much as I did at the end of the season (Fantasy Football), you’d see the amount of potential that the kid really has..
IF he leaves the Saints (and thats a big if), he’s going to command more money than he’s really worth. Draft a mid-round RB, or maybe go after Dominic Rhodes? I got lots of ideas, none of which will probably happen… haha
by JerseyNinerFan on Jan 14, 2009 7:38 AM PST up reply actions
Pretty close...
to what I would say the biggest needs are. I would def take WR off the list though. With what looks like some good young talent, the priority should be to develop them as opposed to bringing in some high priced FA.
As for the rest of the list, I would have to agree with sfgfan, NT/DE (depending on the defense we play) is the biggest need. Though I would then put FS/RT next. I like what Snyder did at RT, but if he goes down, we have who? Plus I’m not completely sold on him, and wouldn’t mind bringing somebody to compete for the spot. Though again I agree with sfgfan, I would like to see this address in the draft rather than in FA.
So for free agency, I would love Haynesworth (I think, I’m still not sure whether he’s just playing for a contract this year), Harris would be good I think, and is a UFA: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DL&y=2009.
Obviously, Roman has to go. I know a lot of people are wary of Goldson, saying he couldn’t break into the line up past Roman, but Roman was a Nolan guy so he wasn’t losing his spot earlier in the season, and then once Sing took over, Goldston got hurt if I remember right. If the coaches don’t feel comfortable with him starting, then I’d say FS was the next need in FA, though I’m not sure who would be a good fit.
So I agree with NT (or pass rushing DE if we switch back to a 4-3) as the top need.
FS would be next, though maybe move Harris or Clements to FS and bring in another CB. I know this is just dreaming, but having Clements and Asomugha at CB and Harris and Lewis at safety would be pretty sweet. But yeah, we def need an upgrade at FS. Or move Clements to FS and start one of the young CBs on the roster while getting the other CB in FA).
The OLine, I feel, can be addressed with the draft and possibly will be okay with the line up at the end of the year. And we are definitely set at WR.
Clements would laugh at you
If asked him to play FS he would laugh in your face…. guys like Clements get off on playing man… straight up… all day…
Where do u people come up with this stuff?
The man has played corner his whole life. You think he’s just going to move to safety and be sweet. Playing the positions are more different than you think. None of this matters since corners like Clements dont play safety baby… they are shutdowns.
I'll admit
Clements still has a few years left in him before he starts to slow down a bit and considering moving him from corner is premature. But it would be nice to get more than a snarky, uninformed response relating to a tiny part of my entrie comment from people.
First off, moving corners to safties is not an unprecidented move. Many aging corners have found a home at safety and excelled. As stated above, I will admit putting Clements in that mix may be premature, but he is 29. A few more years and he’ll start losing a step. And really, as Patrick said, he’s got good instincts, can catch the ball and run it back, and is a hitting machine. He would create havoc in the middle of the field.
Now you say he’d laugh in my face… probably. But what if Sing and the Niners decide that’s the best place for him. Think he’d laugh in their face? I think Clements will one day move to FS because his talents will make him a great one once he starts losing some speed. Yes, it takes time to adjust to different responsibilities, but you’re acting like OMG, dudz, ur the f…in IDIOT for thinking he would play FS.
Not to mention, my main thought was that we need to upgrade FS somehow, and if not in FA, an option to look at would be:
I know this is just dreaming, but having Clements and Asomugha at CB and Harris and Lewis at safety would be pretty sweet.
The Clements move to FS was just an afterthought. And he’s probably too expensive to move to FS anyway. But its not like my whole argument was that Clements should be the FS. If anything, it was the last option on my list.
Lott
Ronnie Lott did move to safety during his fifth year as a corner. Not saying it’s likely to happen again, but it wouldn’t be the first time.
by David Fucillo on Jan 14, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
I was going to argue that "Clements isn't that guy"
as in, he’s more of a coverage specialist than anything else.
But the truth is, Clements has the ability to ballhawk as well as any saftey in the league, and he’s one of the best open-field tacklers on the team. A guy like him would make a model free saftey.
That being said, he’s much more useful as a corner at this stage in his career. There’s absolutely no reason to take your best cover corner out of his game and get him to try something new…yet. Three, four years from now, however…we may have this conversation again.
Sebaz, you stole my thunder...
I thought I had single handly cooked up the idea to move Clements to FS, but alas, the glory must be given to you good sir.
Reasons Clements might be an amazing FS:
1. He can play centerfield. No double moves to worry about.
2. He’s a INT return specialist, ala Ed Reed.
3.he’s one of the most physical and intuitive corners against the run. Perfect for a safety.
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 13, 2009 11:27 AM PST reply actions
You don't pay...
… a FS what the 49ers are paying Clements. Especially one who hasn’t played a down at FS in almost 10 years of being in the NFL.
Clements
Makes a great FS on Madden lol. A 99 I believe.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
just about any corner you convert to safety becomes a much better FS. Damion Hughes is like an 85 or something so thats not saying much. But it sounds like you use the same tricks as me on franchise mode. Do you convert small fast OLB’s to DE’s and big run blocking tackles to guards and then trade them too? you can make a guy like LeMarr Woodley a 99 DE and trade him for just about anything, plus when you play the team with Woodley playing DE you can run right at him all game long and watch your RT dominate him.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
Small, fast OLBs.
I usually convert them to ILBs and trade them in two or three years because Willis is still on the roster.
Malcolm Jenkins
Was a beast with a 96 Ovr. out of college in my madden and Tim Tebow (84 coming out) and Colt McCoy(82) have turned into every year playoff guys.
Next year will be our year! (copyright 2003*, been used each of last five years)
by StrictlyFootball on Jan 13, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
lol hell yea i do
Haralson is a beast at DE
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
Pump the O-line
I also get the whole O-line to 99’s in the run block stat so it is easier to kill em with Gore.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
position conversions
it’s fun to mess with Madden and make your roster 20x better just by changing players’ positions.
Any OT is about 5 OVR points higher as an OG, and about 7 points higher as a C.
Almost all OLBs go up in OVR rating when you convert them to DEs.
Almost all DEs see a rating improvment when moved to DT, regardless of size or style.
TE ratings usually go up when converted to FBs.
This post was completely pointless =)
TE’s to FB’s hmmm…..I hadnt thought of that one.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
The...
… run blocking attribute for TEs, on the whole, is a lot lower than at FB, isn’t it? I think the reason why the rating goes up is because the TE is a ridiculous rushing FB (in Madden), especially guys like Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, etc. I almost never call a FB run, so I generally convert FBs to TEs and just build up their hands. Better edge blockers when going 2 TE (I move Vernon to the lone WR and have two blocking TEs flanking the line).
In madden '09
for me, anyway, the running game is really just a footnote. Even online, I’ll call pass plays 90% of the time. With that being the case, your fullback becomes a huge receiving threat. So on a team with two good TE’s, it’s a good choice to move your backup to starting fullback to maximize this threat.
Teams like the Niners or my top Madden choice, the Saints, have excellent options for TE/FB conversion in Delanie Walker and Billy Miller.
Also, for some reason, OLBs really suck at following fullbacks into the flats – and the fullback is almost always open on play action. So yeah.
Walker is a great FB when converted
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
d and o line
we need to improve are offensive and defensive line. with singletary coaching you know he will put a lot of pressure on those players, so if we get a couple good people there, are linebakers on defense, and frank gore on offense can explode
Aaron Curry - Wake Forest
Would be a great Pass Rush DE.. I could see us taking him in the First Round.. I’m just afraid of him blowing assignments when dropping back into coverage.. Awareness is not all that..
Let’s just cross our fingers that we don’t draft Sanchez because we have at least a year’s worth of Shaun Hill and Alex Smith (I believe he gets one more shot with the ‘’smash-mouth’’ style offense as it is less demanding on the QB) and It would be heart-wrenching if we overpay yet another underachieving QB.
I say that if we draft a QB we do it in later rounds and have him compete with Shaun and Alex (JTO is gone!! *Cheers*). After all, both the Steelers and the Ravens have made it to the Championships in the AFC with great defense and a less-than-great offense.
At this point I think defense can be fixed alot cheaper and quicker that the offense. We have 2-3 years before seeing the Niners with an elite offense. We need to beat AZ (#1 offense) to take the division and the only way to do so is to have a big guy at Nose hitting the a-gaps, A DE/OLB pass rusher, and a saftey to help CB’s with “Superman” Fitzgerald. Let us hope for one of the greatest offseasons in a long time!
Patrick you failed in so many ways..
you say we need a FS more than anything else- a Ed Reed or younger Dawkins, how bout just saying any future HOFer? That’s wrong because while we could use an upgrade at FS, our top priority is pass rush, pass rush, pass rush
Second you say Nose Tackle, while you suprisingly got it right that we need an upgrade at Nose, you failed in realizing that Balmer played Left End in his limited playing time, and calling a rookie a bust after one year, get real. and Tommie Harris, while a great player, is way too small for a typical Nose Tackle.
plus you add a bunch of other nonsense (Jonas Jennings being a success, Lito Sheppard), where are we gonna get the money to sign all these all-pro’s?
that's gold jerry, gold!!!
9Custs
Cool name, first and foremost. Secondly, don’t call someone out by name and then blatantly disregard the first paragraph of there thread. A paragraph prefacing the entire post. Now I’m sure your eyes shot right down to all of the bold names, so in case you missed it.
So i’m posting this thread to get an idea of who’s going to be out there this offseason as it pertains to our position needs. I don’t know who’s contract is running out next season, so my suggestions are to point out the caliber player I’d like to see us go after, not the specific player.
As you can see, I highlighted the parts that might help you understand the purpose of this post a little better. If I had said something along the lines of…
“I’m posting this thread because I think we should seriously consider each of these positions as the highest priority. We should sign the biggest names we can get at every position, no matter the cost…”
…your previous comment might hold some merit. Alas, this was not the case.
Third: Jennings was a solid veteran addition when Norv Turner coached the offense. Our running game ruled and Jennings was an important part of that. Today and for the past two years, I agree, he’s been garbage.
Four: Balmer has conditioning issues. He will not be dominant. So when someone’s not dominant, what should we call them? Mediocre? Maybe? Would that be okay? If, next year, he is up near the top on the team with sacks, I’ll eat my hat. Not gonna happen.
At least when rampage criticized my article he had some tact. And in that respect, it is you, 9Custs (coolest name ever… what ever could it mean?!), who has failed categorical.
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 14, 2009 2:24 AM PST up reply actions
Balmer had like 3 sacks his SR year in college
No one ever expected him to be a sack machine.
He was brought in to be a 3-4 DE, and he’s still developing. Sack totals aren’t going to be a very good gauge of his improvement (or lack there of) next year.
Balmer had like 3 sacks his SR year in college
No one ever expected him to be a sack machine.
He was brought in to be a 3-4 DE, and he’s still developing. Sack totals aren’t going to be a very good gauge of his improvement (or lack there of) next year.
you fail again...
I did read the whole post, yet respected none of it. you said an Ed Reed/Dawkins caliber player. Than means a Hall of Famer… We could use that caliber of player for 10 different positions on offand AND defense. that was silly.
2nd, Jennings having 1 good year out of (I belive) a 5 year deal is not a great signing,
3rd I never said balmer was going to be dominant(wherever the hell they put him on the line, I wasn’t excited by the pick, but i understood it. But one thing I would never say that is that someone who’s only played 1 year is a bust. remember when Mario Williams went first overall? The Texans GM got fired for taking him over Young/Bush, and his first year was not very special, but now look at him. However I doubt Balmer will ever get double-digit sacks, especially being a 3-4 end (not a position friendly to that stat).
Patrick pleas realize this is more me ragging on you more than anything malicious, any niners fan is a kick-ass person. Now if you want to banter about Cust or the a’s, we can chat over there on AN anytime…
that's gold jerry, gold!!!
Fair enough...
look, after 2 or 3 years of Mark Roman at safety, is it really out of line to ask for an aggressive ball hawking hard hitter. I don’t care who we get, I just wanna see a hammer icon underneath his feet. (Madden) I apologized for name dropping. I hope your foot is alright.
Again, I don’t want 10 hall of famers. One HOF’er and a solid veteran would be just fine.
Bygones, 9Custs, bygones.
by Patrick J Smiles on Jan 15, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
i was shocked when we took balmer
I’m not gonna say bust but he will be a backup in this league….. and for a 1st round pick to get that limited of time is kind of a bust…. he did nothing for us this year
I think in a 4-3...
… he’s have a lot more opportunities to contribute at DT. Too bad for him it looks like the coaching staff is leaning toward a 3-4 again.
And speaking of Anquan. He had contract issues early in the year. Now he’s injured and they are in the playoffs. Their situation reminds me of Shockey and the Giants last season. If someone like that comes around, I say we should jump on him.
Yes, because that trade worked out so well for the Saints.
I have no new information on that at this time.
he had 50 receptions while missing most of the season with injuries, I’d hardly call that not working well for the Saints
Injury to Shockey?!
Shocking!
The Saints acquired a guy that will ALWAYS ride the pine at some point in a season due to injury. Not only that, they acquired a guy that another team proved was expendable because he was replaced by a 5th round pick.
Question is, what would you give up for him (Boldin)? The Cards will probably ask for a second and a 3rd or 4th in the upcoming draft (at the very least). If there are other teams in the foray, that price could easily drive up to two second round picks (this year and a future) or a 1st rounder and some later rounds. What price is worth it for a WR about to break into his 30s?
If you're the Niners?
I’d give up a 1st. The Niners suck at drafting. Maybe that’ll change but I doubt it.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
The 9ers suck at drafting?
Yea Willis, Morgan, J.Hill and Gore to all were crappy picks……
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
Actually...
… they kind of do.
They’ve had how many first rounders since Mike Nolan took over? Six. What surefire starters have they ended up with with those six picks? Maybe Willis and Staley? I’ll be generous and give you Vernon Davis, too. That’s 50% of their first rounders. This is not to mention that of those six, half of them should have been “gimme” type picks, which is where they ended up with Willis and (MAYBE) Davis.
How many second round picks have they had? Two. Both times they’ve taken interior offensive linemen. The first one so far hasn’t panned out very well (Baas). The jury is still out on Rachal.
All in all, that’s eight surefire starters that should be contributing to their team every week, but they’ve only ended up with three, and that’s if I’m generous with Vernon Davis. Their drafting has indeed, sucked. Gore was by far the team’s best pick that was outside of the first round. Most of their later round picks have kind of failed to pan out.
LOL you seriously want to play this game?
Let’s go back, say 5 years, and lets look just how good the Niners have drafted. I’m going to keep it short any only look at the first 3 rounds.
2003
1.26 Kwame Harris (OT – Stanford) – BUST
2.57 Anthony Adams (DT – Penn St.) – REACH
3.89 Andrew Williams (DE – Miami Fla.) – BUST
2004
1.31 Rashaun Woods (WR – Oklahoma St.) – BUST
2.46 Justin Smiley (OG – Alabama) – GOOD PICK but gone
2.58 Shawntae Spencer (CB – Pittsburg) – DECENT PICK
3.77 Derrick Hamilton (WR – Clemson) – BUST
2005
1.1 Alex Smith (QB – Utah) – BUST
2.33 David Baas (OG – Michigan) – BUST
3.65 Frank Gore (RB – Miami) – AWESOME PICK
3.94 Adam Snyder (OT – Oregon) – DECENT ENOUGH PICK
2006
1.6 Veron Davis (TE – Maryland) – REACH
1.22 Manny Lawson (OLB – North Carolina St.) – REACH
3.84 Brandon Williams (WR – Wisconsin) – BUST
2007
1.11 Patrick Willis (LB – Mississippi) – GOOD PICK
1.28 Joes Staley (OT – Central Michigan) – GOOD PICK
3.76 Jason Hill (WR – Washington St.) – DECENT ENOUGH PICK
3.97 Ray McDonald (DE – Florida) – DECENT ENOUGH PICK
2008
1.29 Kentwan Balmer (DE – North Carolina) – BUSTish
2.39 Chilo Rachal (OG – USC) – DECENT ENOUGH PICKish
3.75 Reggie Smith (DB – Oklahoma) – BUSTish
Outside of ‘07 that’s a lot of busts/reaches thru the first 3 rounds. You’re more than welcome to look at how the Niners have drafted past the those first 3 rounds but it’s not much better.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
What's a normal team?
The Broncos pulled 5 starters through the first 4 rounds of the ‘06 draft. That’s like 2 more than the Niners have drafted in 5 years.
by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, fine
Average team.
I’m sure that was really hard to understand from my question.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
What's an average team?
A team that makes the playoffs once every 5 years? How about you figure out whatever an “average” or “normal” team is do the research yourself.
by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions
Domenik Hixon never caught a pass for the Broncos, but the other four look particularly good.
Let’s look at the Broncos picks from 2003-2008, top three rounds only:
2003
1.20 George Foster (T) – Now playing for the Lions after being a Broncos starter for three years. ???
2.51 Terry Pierce (LB) – Two year, un-noteworthy career. BUST
2004
1.17 DJ Williams (OLB) – Would appear to be a starter, and a tackler with only 6.5 sacks, 2 Ints, and 6 FF. Decent pick?
2.41 Tatum Bell (RB) – Another Shanahan runner. In five years, only twice has carried for more than 1,000 yards. His highest total otherwise was 396, his rookie year. Average YPC for his career, 4.9! 16 career rushing TDs. I’d rank him as a short term wonder, so far, but that could turn on a dime if he puts together another 1,000 yard season.
2.54 Darius Watts (WR) – 31 catches his rookie year, 2 his second year in six games, zero his third year. Now in the Arena League. BUST
3.85 Jeremy LeSueur (CB) – In his three year career, he played in two games with zero stats to show for it. BUST
2005
2.56 Darrent Williams (CB) – Two year career cut short in a hail of gunfire. Not exactly a bust, but not exactly what anyone would hope for.
3.76 Karl Paymah (DB) – Four years, three interceptions. Doesn’t appear to be anything to write home about. Bust, Reach, or Decent Pick?
3.97 Domonique Foxworth (CB) – Four years, four interceptions, zero TDs. Traded to the Falcons for a 7th round draft pick. Bust? He doesn’t look that good on paper.
3.101 Maurice Clarett (RB or something) – I’m making the call now, BUST
2006
1.11 Jay Cutler (QB) – I’d call this a GOOD PICK.
2.61 Tony Scheffler (TE) – His last two years have seen pretty good receiving numbers. Looks like a GOOD PICK
We’re only looking at the first three rounds, so unfortunately Brandon Marshall (4.119) and Elvis Dumervil (4.126) are disqualified from this study. But MAN is Marshall looking good! Dumervil hasn’t been half bad either.
2007
1.17 Jarvis Moss (DE) – In two years, he’s played in 18 games, has 24 tackles, 3.5 sacks, and 1 FF. Could still be a decent pick, but those numbers don’t set me a’buzzin.
2.56 Tim Crowder (DE) – Rookie year, 13 games, 16 tackles, 4 sacks. Last year, 6 games, 1 tackle. That looks like he’s headed towards BUST territory…
3.70 Ryan Harris (OT) – He’s playing and apparently starting, so unless anyone knows if he looks more like Kwame Harris and less like Joe Staley, I’d say DECENT PICK.
2008
1.12 Ryan Clady (T) – Played in 16 games his rookie year. Same thing applies to Clady as applied to Harris. DECENT PICK.
2.42 Eddie Royal (WR) – Holy crap, in his rookie year he caught 91 passes for 980 yards and 5 TDs? Well if Patrick Willis only gets a GOOD PICK, then Eddie Royal, thus far, only gets GOOD PICK too!
So without the benefit of having followed the Broncos religiously, I’m seeing three good picks, three decent picks, the jury sort of out (Bell), one incomplete (D. Williams), one guy who I’m not labeling a bust simply because I’ve heard his name (Paymah), and one guy I can’t grade because while he’s starting in the NFL, he’s starting for the Lions. So that can’t tell any of us if he’s any good or not (Foster). That’s actually fewer decent or better picks than the Niners have to show.
So does this show us the Niners drafting is about average?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
The Broncos are one team
Hixon is a starter now. I didn’t mean to say that the Broncos are a good measuring stick I just know that ’06 and ’08 they had pretty stellar drafts and combined those two drafts have netted them better players than the Niners have had in like 10 years.
Patrick Willis was only a good pick because he fell to the Niners. I mean I guess they could have blown that pick but then they’d be really stupid.
by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2009 7:19 AM PST up reply actions
Top rounds
In a sense, the top rounds for the Niners stack up fairly well against the Broncos, yet the Broncos have had a more successful team but draft picks at similar positions to the Niners overall. It definitely looks like the Broncos have done a better job of drafting, but I’d think that the more successful teams would do a better job of drafting.
I might do another of these later for a team like the Eagles (sustained success) or the Cardinals (recent success), to see how their draft picks stack up. Particularly the Cards might be a good “average” team to look at. We shall see. But I think it’s a very interesting comparison to see how the Niners have done at drafting. But I think we can all probably agree the Niners haven’t been great either at A) finding talent through the draft, or B) properly utilizing the talent they’ve drafted.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
yet the Broncos have had a more successful team but draft picks at similar positions to the Niners overall
Good job proofreading, dummy….
I mean they’ve had a more successful team recently, and their first rounders have come in around similar positions in the draft as the Niners.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
“Good job proofreading, dummy….”
Watch it, we don’t allow personal attacks on this site. Even if it’s an attack on yourself.
Haven't been to The Examined Life? No wonder your life feels so empty.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jan 15, 2009 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
Proofreading is for loosers
Atlest thats what I tell me.
by methodrampage on Jan 16, 2009 7:11 AM PST up reply actions
I could be way off base
In my assumption that the Niners have done a “sucky” job at drafting, relative to the rest of the NFL. I do actually find the subject very interesting. Maybe with we want to set some kind of parameters for below average teams, average teams, and above average teams over a set period of time we can divy up a team from each category for possibly you and myself (and anyone else if they’re interested) to review. Maybe we’ll find out if the Niners are better than I think.
by methodrampage on Jan 16, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions
That's exactly what I'm thinking
Perhaps a new thread for this would be in order.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
new thread
Any thoughts on how to handle it? I’m intrigued by it but not sure how best to run with it.
by David Fucillo on Jan 16, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
First, parameters
Maybe we get a thread started just to discuss the parameters everybody wants to see. Like, what makes a below average team, average team, above average team, etc. Also, what makes a pick a bust, a reach, good or excellent pick. And lastly what rounds and time period we’re going to look at.
If we really want to do it right we should probably standardize whatever we can. Then we can post the results in a fresh and clean, possibly front page, thread.
by methodrampage on Jan 16, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I’ll email you and JRPhillips and we can discuss this offline a little more and see where we can go with this.
by David Fucillo on Jan 16, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
This is directed at those of you discussing the Broncos drafts
as a Broncos fan I can say that Denver is one of the worst drafting teams in the league over the past 15 years. 2008 looks good, unless you realize that that team went 8-8, and 2006 looks good, but they are the only two years worth a damn. Outside of those two drafts (which shocked us in how good they were, and I will admit, they represent an upswing away from Shanahan’s drafting ineptitude) we have exactly 1 starter, LB DJ Williams, to show for over 12 drafts….
II sure hope you don’t want to use us as a measuring stick……..
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 16, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
Huh?
Between two very productive years of Tatum Bell, Jay Cutler’s emergence, Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Scheffler, Dumervil, and of course DJ Williams, that’s some pretty solid productivity the Broncos have drafted right there. Of course, I don’t know how good the O-line guys the Broncos drafted are. So styg, what are YOU comparing their drafting against?
If we can get the draft comparison off the ground, you too might be suprised at the effectiveness of the Broncos drafting.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Yeah, we had some really bad drafts. But we’ve been getting better in the recent past with 2007 and 2008, especially when given that it’s way too early to call Kentwan Balmer a bust, and that’s pushing it even for Reggie Smith. And with the kind of coaching turnover the niners have had over the past years, I don’t know how valuable it is to bring up drafts from the past. Erickson and Donahue really sucked at the draft, yeah. Nolan was somewhat better, although the Smith and Davis picks were iffy. And we really have no track record for Singletary yet.
So yeah, the Niners have had some bad drafts over the past 5 years, but that isn’t necessarily something you can use to predict the success of future drafts.
by J. Frank Parnell on Jan 14, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
2008
But Balmer and Smith haven’t done anything to suggest that they’re going to be any good. If its too early to call them busts than it’s too early to ’08 a good draft.
by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2009 7:21 AM PST up reply actions
Wait
How can you call Balmer and Reggie Smith bust picks after just one season?
Why don’t we just give it some time before we start proclaiming players busts. Reggie Smith could easily have a great year next year, and maybe we’ll find a spot for Balmer where he’ll be productive… The point is we have no idea what these guys will become yet…
by JerseyNinerFan on Jan 14, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
BUSTish
They haven’t done anything to suggest that they aren’t going to be busts. Therefore I labeled them as BUSTish.
by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2009 7:11 AM PST up reply actions
How about not taking the field
It’s hard to be a HOFer if you don’t actually play. I’d expect a 1st rounder to net more than 7 tackles in 16 games. It’s not like McDonald is any kind of world beater. I’d expect a 3rd rounder to have played in more than 3 games and be a little higher up on the depth chart.
Please tell me what HOF defensive lineman had only 7 tackles (on a leauge average defense) and what HOF defensive back only played in 3 games their rookie years.
I think they’ve done everything to suggest that they’re not HOFers.
by methodrampage on Jan 16, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
It's ridiculous to say they are going to be HOFers.
That’s my point.
I’m disagreeing with your logic, not your premise. You’re concluding that Balmer and Smith are busts because of an absence of evidence that proves the contrary.
Your response above this one is a good example of positive evidence that they are, in fact, busts. Not that I agree with it, but it is a better argument.
Balmer, I'll hold out for
but Reggie Smith, I’m a little bit more skeptical about. There’s something to be said when a guy is 7th on the depth chart. And being a punt/kick returner in college, you’d think his name might have come up when Rossum went down and we were taking bums off the street for fair-catch auditions.
Serious one...
Kyle Boller will probably be a free agent. I like him as back-up material.
I have no new information on that at this time.
What about Suggs??
Is Suggs a free agent this off season?? We need a DE/OLB that can Pass rush… That would give us a year cushion in drafting another 1st round LB and we could pick up a big O-Lineman… And who would agree that Vernon Davis would make a good leading blocker for Gore at FB?? People have said he would make a great Bo Jackson style runner.
RE: Suggs
He’s been discussed in other threads. Basically everybody would like to have him but they’d also prefer Albert Haynesworth.
by methodrampage on Jan 16, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
haynesworth and suggs can't be franchised this year
just a note here. some people were saying they expected these two guys to be franchised this year. They can’t be franchised b/c they only agreed to sign their one year franchise tender last season with a stipulation added saying they couldnt be franchised in 2009.
Someone that hasn't been mentioned..
LaMont Jordan.. Powerful smash-mouth type of runner that is a free agent this off-season. Shouldn’t be too expensive, and does anyone know if he was with Oakland while Ratham was the running backs coach?
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