My Admission Of Guilt: We Need A QB!
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 6:46 PM PDT
257 comments
Before i here some on here who would love for me to eat my words. Let me say this, i am happy with what Shaun Hill has done for the 49ers and really don't have any bad to say about him. That said he isn't our long term answer at the QB position and we really have no idea how Nate Davis is going to turn out. It looks a lot like we are going to need to add a QB in the off-season to either take over for Hill in 2010 or 2011. This defense is built to go deep into the playoffs with young standouts such as Patrick Willis and Dashon Goldson. Now we need to add pieces to this offense and that starts at the QB position. Now what i will do is look at the options which are aplenty.
Free Agency : Not much here
Kyle Orton Denver
Chad Pennington Miami
Jason Campbell Washington
Tavaris Jackson Minnesota
Bradie Croyle Kansas City
Trade Options: A Little More
Brady Quinn Cleveland
Vince Young Tennessee
Josh Johnson Tampa Bay
2010 NFL Draft: The Best Bet
Jimmy Clausen Notre Dame Top 10 Pick (Junior, most likely to stay in school)
Jake Locker Washington Top 10 Pick Junior
Sam Bradford Oklahoma Top 15 Pick Junior
Colt Mccoy Texas Mid-late 1st round
Javon Sneed Mississippi Mid-late 1st round Junior
Tim Tebow Florida Mid-late 1st round
Tony Pike Cincinnati 2nd round pick
Case Keenum Houston 2-3rd round pick Junior
Dan Lafevour Central Michigan 3rd round pick
Zach Robinson Oklahoma State 3-4th round pick
Tim Hiller Western Michigan 4th round pick
As is apparent the draft is the 49ers best option in terms of finding an eventual replacement for Shaun Hill. As has been the case Jimmy Clausen is the QB that stands out the most to me as pro ready with all the entangebles, and today's game against USC doesn't change my mind, it actually makes it more clear to me. Not getting any pass protection at all, without any running game to speak of and going up against the nation's 2nd best defense Clausen almost completed a 3 TD comeback in the 4th quarter, this on a gimpy leg. There are two problems with this. #1- Is it likely that he is going to stay at Notre Dame for his senior season and #2- If he forgoes his senior year Clausen will be the 1st overall pick or at the very least the first QB off the board. If we have a chance to get him i say we do everything short of offer both 1st round picks to get him. Jake Locker is another intriguing option and he will be available with our pick from Carolina, but i am not sure how he translates to the NFL, i mean he has mad talent but his accuracy isn't the greatest. Sam Bradford is a system QB that has had the benefit of only being sacked 7 times in two seasons prior to 2009 and when he has faced pressure this season has gone down to injury twice. The only other QB that impresses me in the 2010 class is Tony Pike but he is going to be more of a project and we already have that on our team. It wouldn't make any sense going after any of the free agent QB's available as how much of an upgrade would any of them be over Shaun Hill? I do like the idea of going after a Brady Quinn or Vince Young but it just depends what it would cost to acquire them.
Though the options are plenty the 49ers must make the decision on what to do and live with it. One thing i will say. Please Please Please don't go after Colt Mccoy or Tim Tebow neither translate well to the NFL the latter even more so. If Jimmy Clausen declares for the NFL draft the 49ers would be well suited to trade up and acquire him. They could offer Carolina's 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick and future 2nd round pick and bring in the QB of the future that has everything a teams wants in a QB.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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THis-Yeah draft a QB I like LaFevour
This defense is built to go deep into the playoffs with young standouts such as Patrick Willis and Dashon Goldson
Are you kidding? I know who Willis is but who is the other guy?
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 7:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A Ball Hawkin
Free Safety with all the ability to become a premiere defensive player in the NFL. Has played at an all-pro level this season
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willis is the only elite player on our team.
The only other guy that’s played at an “all-pro” level this season has been (surprisingly) Shawntae Spencer.
Goldson has made plenty of bonehead mistakes, and he hasn’t quite been the ball-hawking playmaker than many hoped he’d be.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys think that spencer can be a shutdown corner?
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As mentioned below, I think Spencer is playing above his own level right now.
He’s a good cover corner, for sure. I just wouldn’t expect him to keep playing this well for an extended period of time.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was so-so against Atlanta
I’ve been impressed though…
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who wasn’t so so or worse against Atlanta..The whole team must have had a hangover on that game.
Judgment day is coming!
by Widowwolf on Oct 18, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Spencer held his own for part of the game
But I noticed he gave up one big reception (I don’t think it led to a TD) where he failed to make a play on the ball and couldn’t make the tackle after the reception.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall that play too, but the point here is really that Spencer has been very good so far this season.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 19, 2009 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
It feels weird to see you compliment a 49ers player.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Walt Harris will be back next year… not sure how he’ll recover from injury but he was good before
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walt Harris is a FA
right?
And I’m sure Spencer is much better than him.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure if he's a FA
Spencer has definitely proven himself worthy so far. Clements wont be there forever and I think Walt is getting up there too. We need to start looking at the youth on the team at the CB position. I want to see T. Brown start playing in the nickel packages
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clemments signed a long contract
But there is still plenty of CB talent that’s going to be available in next year’s draft.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
long? how long?
He’s like 30-31 years old
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was like 29
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right
he’ll be 30 in December. Maybe one more solid year?
by Drew K on Oct 18, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say 3
CBs should still be good before they’re 32.
Besides, Clemments isn’t a speed guy so losing a step shouldn’t hurt him too much.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I Call Goldson Elite?
No i said he is a standout. Secondly i am not sure what games you have been watching but please tell me the “bone head” mistakes he has made because i have made a point in concentrating on him when watching through game film and guess what? He has played at an all-pro level as has Shawntae Spencer.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonehead mistakes?
How about his blown coverage, letting Roddy White over the top of him in the corner of the end zone mere seconds after Singletary chewed out the entire team for playing without their heads in the game?
Look, Goldson is a lot better than Roman…but that doesn’t mean that he’s actually good. Several times, he’s gone for a hit instead of trying to make a play on the ball, and I’ve counted at least 4 times so far this year that he’s been completely steamrolled by offensive players. Dashon Goldson is somewhere near league-average. No more, no less.
And you’re crazy – Shawntae Spencer has had his side of the field on lockdown pretty much all season. I’m sure he’ll come back down to Earth eventually, but right now, Spencer playing about as well as any DB in the league.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Never Questioned Spencer
So i don’t know where that came from. I have been a major supporter of him for years now.
Was that Goldson’s coverage? Not entirely sure of that and keep in mind first year starter here so he is prone to some mistakes
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was his coverage.
And letting a receiver run right behind your corner of a cover-3 zone isn’t exactly a “small mistake” that you should expect veteran safeties to make.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Veteran Safety
In his first season as a starter? Doesn’t make sense if you ask me
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really not trying to get into debating these same senseless arguments.
This is the same thing as the “Sure, Shaun Hill has been in the NFL for 8 years, but this is his first season as a full time starter!” nonsense.
This is Goldson’s 3rd year in the NFL. He’s played plenty over the past few years. Is he young? Sure, but just because this is his first season as a full-time starter does not mean we should expect him to be making rookie mistakes.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree.
Goldson is to the secondary is what Hill is to the offense – replacing a horrible player and looking better than he is because of it.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only spencer but McDonald has played very well
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDonald is really only on the field on 3rd and 7+...
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's great at that down and distance.
We cannot have Charles Haley back but once in awhile we get a good impression of him.
by bignerd on Oct 17, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and on FGs
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lmao
Goldson, All-Pro level?
Sure he’s been an improvement over Mark Roman (who isn’t?) but he hasn’t even sniffed elite performance.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never Said Elite
You people seriously need to stop putting words into my mouth
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Playing at an all-pro level this season' implies you think he's one of the top 3 in the conference, at the very least.
When in reality he’s probably somewhere average to slightly below average.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What has he shown?
Has played at an all-pro level this season
-Homerism
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plays Plays Plays
He has been all around the ball against Minnesota, Arizona, Seattle and St. Louis. I understand he didn’t have a great game against Atlanta. No One Did.
As it is this isn’t what the thread is about. Can we move on? Time will tell regarding Goldson we just have different opinions at this points
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But your opinion is extremely far fetched.
Don’t make a bold statement like that and try to rush the conversation on, because it’s blatently false. A tip pick from a backup QB and I guarantee he has no more than 2 pass deflections. He surrendered a TD to White, the game winner in Minnesota. The jury is still out but he isn’t making plays plays plays!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
That may not be what you ment, but that’s what you said, “a young standout”. He’s far from a “young standout” in my opion. As for your claim that the 49ers need a new QB, I agree. Hill has done a nice job, but I doubt the 49ers will win anything more than a playoff game or two with him leading the offense.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard clausen is staying in for his senior yr. But if he fell to carolinas pick take him
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 7:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He wants a national championship
He said he was going to win 4 (LMAO) when he committed to ND.
I really wish he would declare, if he doesn’t then this year’s QB class is suddenly weak.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As An ND Alumn
I have bias regarding Clausen. But then again i am torn between him trying to win at ND or possibly becoming a Niner, i will take the latter though.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're not winning a national championship
They are finally starting to bring in more talent, but they’re still not good enough.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're defense is lacking but with all WR's healthy they are dangerous on O
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We already have a future QB
Nate Dogg Davis
just wait and see! the evidence is out there on youtube too
by danknerd49 on Oct 17, 2009 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The Evidence Is On You Tube?
Dude what are you smoking? Can get in on some of that?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
SHUT UP ABOUT DRAFTING A QB!!!
Now that I have that out of my system… Drafting QBs is an inexact science (Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith). Anybody in your list above could be a bust (including those top three). You just have to draft somebody then wait a couple years and see if he pans out. We drafted Nate Davis, we are committed to him for a couple years. There is no way we get ANOTHER young QB. Besides that though, Nate Davis has showed nothing but upside. He has displayed good mental football traits that are the same no matter who you are playing against. Best of all, he is cool as a cucumber but he ain’t dumb. He’ll stay in the pocket all day but he knows when to get out. Nate Davis could very well be a franchise QB. Shaun Hill/Alex Smith will get us through this year, and after that it may be time to see what the young kid can do.
by Riding The F Train on Oct 17, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Way In Hell
Jimmy Clausen is going to be a bust. He is as sure fire a prospect since Peyton Manning. Not only does he has the talent he has the passion, drive, intelligence and all around ability to be a great signal caller. I understand my Notre Dame bias, but what i have seen from this guy shows me this. I didn’t say the same for Quinn coming out.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah pretty sure he is going to be a beast hopefully its for us. Clausen to Crabtree :)
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no such thing as a "sure fire prospect" at the QB position
Lots of teams have though they got a sure fire prospect only to find out they had a bust. Personally, I’ld rather have Jake Locker than Jimmy Clausen.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ld rather have Jake Locker than Jimmy Clausen.
Wow.
Really?
Care to explain that logic?
I mean, Locker has high upside, but Clausen just flat out outperformed him when they played against each other.
And the effort he put into today’s game was amazing….poor pass protection, no running game, and all of his top targets were well covered.
Yet he still kicked ass.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen Locker play
but I have thought really highly of what Clausen has done. He looks like a pretty solid prospect
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Locker is the only good player on his team
ND gets lots of top prospects yet Locker chose to go to Washington even though they had no one to help him. The only reason why Washington has done anything this year is because of Locker. He’s carrying them on his shoulders. He’s a true leader.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Nick Montana will earn the starting spot for the Huskies next year since Locker will be entering the draft
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Montana
Wasn’t he going back to Notre Dame when Clausen leaves?
by Hoopers Judge on Oct 18, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the other Montana
Nick is still in HS.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clausen's O-line isn't that good....
But yeah Locker has a much crappier team around him.
Only time will tell, I guess.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say he flat out outperformed him...
You are giving far too much credit to Washington’s defense, if you can call it that. It’s absolutely horrible. And Locker doesn’t have anyone half as good as Golden Tate to throw to. In fact, wasn’t Washington going to win that game if it weren’t for two blown calls in ND’s favor?
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 18, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like the love of Florida with the offensive PI no call
In fact, wasn’t Washington going to win that game if it weren’t for two blown calls in ND’s favor
?
For a team that was winless last year, Clausen shouldn’t have his team close to a team like that. IMO
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun of no fun
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't doing anything in the redzone and it's nobody's fault but his own.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 18, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No on drafting a QB in the first
But nothing wrong with drafting one!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 19, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you draft another
young QB, the chances increase that out of Nte Davis and whoever else that we could land someone special
by Drew K on Oct 18, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the better QBs come later in the rounds,
other than the Peyton Brothers.There no rush to pay big money for another Bust. Montana and Brady came in the mid-rounds picks.There have been more 1st round bust than great QBs in past history. I wouldn’t in a hurry to draft a QB as a 1st rounder ! Besides, we may already have a good one in Davis. Just give him time to mature. Just wait until the 3th to 5th round. There is a hidden GEM out there !!!!!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Oct 18, 2009 4:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There may be more busts in the first round then great QBs but name a great QB outside of Brady and Montana that came after the 2nd round. There is a much greater chance to get a great QB in the first round then in the later rounds.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 18, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2nd rounder
I made a list (it’s a few comments below)
Feel free to contribute to it.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t scroll down before I responded. Suppose I should’ve
by Drew K on Oct 19, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the better QBs come later in the rounds
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 18, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There may be ONE "gem" available late in next year's draft
But we don’t know who it is and what are the chances of us landing him?
Off the top of my head:
Late round QB success stories:
Joe Montana
Matt Hasselbeck
Tom Brady
Kurt Warner
Tony Romo (does he count?)
Brett Favre/Drew Brees (both 2nd rounders….do they count as “late round steals”?)
Matt Schaub (same situation as Romo….sort of?)
Jake Delhomme (well obviously he sucks now, but he used to be good)
1st round successful QBs
Big Ben
Jay Cutler
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Carson Palmer
Troy Aikman
Terry Bradshaw
John Elway
Joe Flacco (he counts right?)
Matt Ryan
Kerry Collins (does he count?)
Donovan McNabb (does he count?)
Dan Marino
Joe Namath
(I’m a young fan so I don’t know many other QBs from back in the day)
That’s 16-9 in favor of 1st round QBs.
There’s a reason they’re picked in the first round.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would be the future QB if the NFL season consisted of pre-season football against the 2nd and 3rd teams. I am not saying he can’t be but I wouldn’t let Nate stop the niners from drafting a potential star QB if they get the chance.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 18, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t hurt to have 2 good qbs
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 7:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
2 QB's
Exactly what i was thnking. Why not draft a Tony Pike or Locker in the 2nd round and have either him or Nate start while the other is a starter-caliber backup. Just like in the old days in the NFL.
by Hoopers Judge on Oct 18, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Locker will go in the first but other then that I completely agree.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 18, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reesing?
How come everybody seems to be forgetting Todd Reesing from Kansas. he is by no means one of the top tier QB’s in the country, but he has quietly put up some good numbers the past few years for a program that isnt overwhelming. I think the only thing he lacks is size, around or less than 6 feet tall, but then again not all QB’s are over 6 foot, look at Brees for one. He is someone that could be had in a mid to late round and be a very very low risk pick, and even someone that could be practice squaded because he hasnt garnered the national attention like davis did his senior season. Just some food for thought
by Camraman926 on Oct 17, 2009 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am all about Clausen though if he is available when our first pick comes around, but by no means would i trade up for him when the draft will be so deep with QB talent through the 2 rounds
by Camraman926 on Oct 17, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reesing
I like this guy a lot and i have liked him for a while. But it appears to me his game compares a little to Tim Rattay who although decent isn’t what we are looking at.
Clausen: I would give up a 1st and two 2nds to trade up. That is how much i think he can be a franchise type QB. I believe the drop off after him is steep. Bradford appears to be injury prone. Mccoy and Tebow don’t translate to the NFL. Snead has had a total of 8 good games in his career. And Pike is a project.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is it about McCoy and Tebow that makes you think they don’t translate? I don’t really follow college football, so I’m really curious about this.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Oct 19, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get Tebow's criticism
Being a Meyer and non-pro style offense product, although I’d say his stellar comp. % bodes well for his translation to the NFL. McCoy on the otherhand, I don’t see why he wouldn’t.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 19, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy
I believe Texas operates a shotgun offense and shotgun QBs can struggle moving into a pro style under center offense. From the shotgun you get easier sight lines making your reads. Don’t have any specific links at this point, but I’ve read that stuff somewhere. I know Colt Brennan had big issues with that.
by Fooch on Oct 19, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So from the sound of both of them, it sounds more like the problem is the system than the QB. I think I understand the hesitancy on drafting either in like the top 10, but does it seem like either should slip out of the first round because of the style of system?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Oct 19, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The system
Prevents them from making reads.
They never have to adjust to the defense because of the system.
A QB that can’t make reads is useless in the NFL.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt, thanks for the explanation! Definitely makes a lot of sense.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Oct 19, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Prevents them from making reads.
I doubt this to be the case. Every QB has to make reads. Now a system might make those reads easier than others but still a QB has to read the defense.
Just because a QB in college wasn’t forced to make “NFL” style reads does not mean he is incapable of doing so.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 20, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd Reesing does not have the measurables to be successful in the NFL.
He’s like a poor man’s version of Colt McCoy.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew Brees is the exception
not the rule
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I would do the same to trade up for clausen.
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 9:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade up for Clausen?
Bad idea!!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Exactly?
Please tell me why? Or explain his downside
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't say he has downside
We have too many needs to trade up, that will require vital picks. Had we not drafted crabtree and gotten RT or LG we may be in a good position to do that. I just don’t think it’s a good idea. You may have to trade up to 1 overall.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he even coming out this year? I heard that he is staying one more year but not sure
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said that "If"
he come s out. On the subject i did state that it was likely he was staying at ND to go for a title and graduate. Most ND players stay a full 4 years
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the niners trade someone to either the Lions or the Rams for their 2011 1st round draft pick
Then the Niners will be able to draft Clausen in 2011 when he comes out
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Oct 18, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Would Only Make The Deal
If we only had to give up one 1st round pick. I wouldn’t give up both 1st round picks or a future 1st round pick. But i would give up one 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks and a mid level player (Jason Hill, Adam Snyder etc)
We could draft that tackle with our other 1st round pick. Plus we have no idea what we are going to get from the Jets (which i am under the belief is at least a 2nd) and all the money we have to spend in free agency. Just can’t discount doing it if the chance came to get Clausen who i believe is a Montana/Young type QB
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1st and 2 2nd's that's way too much for any player outta college but Manning.
That’s way too much to pay, especially with our holes
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference Between You And I
I am comparing him to Manning coming out of college
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No comparison on the cerebral level, Eli doesn't compare in that aspect!
Consider Manning in his 3rd season, cerebraly his brother doesn’t compare today!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
We have way to many holes to fill and their are a lot of quality QB’s coming out in next years draft. Why waist 2 high draft picks for a player that could be a bust when we have so many other holes to fill?
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the Giants give up much more for Eli Manning?
I’d say that Jimmy Clausen is much better than Eli
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of players look good in college
Untill Clausen proves it in the NFL, Eli is the better player.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I didn't phrase that right
College Clausen > College Eli
NFL Clausen = ?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Critisizing
Clausen because he hasn’t played in the NFL.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember
Alex Smith looked good in college too. As did Michael Robinson, Arnaz Battle, etc. Where are they now? Benched, and converted to WR and RB.
by Riding The F Train on Oct 17, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alex Smith?
He played for Meyer and he wasn’t even that good.
Best QB in a weak QB class.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't the best QB
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously Rodgers was better
But that’s hindsight.
Rodgers couldn’t go No.1 overall….
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why couldn't he?
Why couldn’t Rodgers have gone #1 overall? The Cal linkage? There was no real choice as far as QB or really anyone in that draft.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Oct 18, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith should have never gone number 1
I knew that before the draft
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not critisizing Clausen for not playing in the NFL
I’m only saying I’m not ready to say he’s better than Eli.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain his downside?
He could totally suck in the NFL. That’s his downside. Plenty of can’t miss prospects have flopped and to think that Clausen is somehow immune to this is pretty naive.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 19, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I see it..
Clausen is either going to take the league by storm like Matt Ryan or become an instant bust like Alex Smith. It’s hard to imagine a middle-ground.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 21, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to sound like a huge Washington homer, but...
i mean he has mad talent but his accuracy isn’t the greatest.
I hope you aren’t basing this statement off of his completion percentage. I’m telling you, the Huskies are one of the least talented squads in the Pac-10. The offensive line is horrible, it gets blown back on nearly every snap, and Locker’s receivers, while somewhat talented, are not known for their hands. I’ve personally witnessed several different occasions were Locker threw perfect darts right at receivers in the hands and the ball either goes through or clanks off.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 9:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is Locker actually that good?
I’ve heard some of the hype on him, but not being able to watch Washington football on a regular basis, all I’ve seen are his stats.
I have to say, I’m not impressed.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 17, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not kidding around when I say he's competing with Clausen as the best NFL QB prospect in the nation.
Clausen’s probably better, and more NFL ready, but I truly believe if Locker develops just a bit more (either by staying his senior year or holding a clipboard his first NFL season) he can be very, very good.
He’s almost the prototypical package.
- Good size (nearly 6’4")
- extremely muscular build and can shake off sacks
- Very mobile and I don’t mean in a Michael Vick way. The type of guy who can extend plays by escaping half-assed sacks and evade pass-rushes to keep a deep-play alive.
- Very smart player, great work ethic.
- Cannon arm. Physically capable of making any throw.
- Now plays in a pro-style system that USC runs, has immensely improved his decision-making and reads.
- Has shown a lot of touch on his passes that you just can’t teach.
The only thing he needs is more experience, I suppose, but he’s a far better prospect than those frauds Bradford, McCoy, Tebow, etc at the very least.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he’s kind like Big Ben in a way
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to it
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose I'll say that he probably projects as a Big Ben type with touch
and probably less propensity to take stupid sacks.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, I forgot very poised and doesn't lose composure when playing from behind.
And while this is sort of stupid to bring up, in the rare chance that Locker looks horrible at QB, I suppose you can always convert him to a different position because he is truly an NFL level athlete. Before he started looking ridiculously awesome at QB this season, there was little doubt in my mind he’d find his way on an NFL roster simply due to his immense athleticism and work ethic. And he’s not like Tebow-athletic where he fails to make a read and then takes off down an open-field while trucking a linebacker.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Anyone watch Clausen’s performance against the Trojans today? Injured, no running game, sacked 6 times, hit 21 times and almost led a 3 TD 4th quarter comeback.
I am in no way discounting Locker
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah my roomates are from Washington and they say hes legit
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And while we're here discussing Locker,
he leads a game-tying drive against Arizona State, and the defense proceeds to keel over and die and give up the most absurdly wide open hail mary TD ever from that piece of crap QB Sullivan
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 17, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
That sucks.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds exactly like Nate Davis
Nate Davis:
Shakes off sacks
Is quite mobile and knows the exact second to leave the pocket
Very smart player, great work ethic
Laser arm, physically capable of making any throw
Has shown a lot of touch on his passes that you just can’t teach
Is cool as a cucumber and doesn’t panic
The only thing he needs is experience and the time to learn the playbook.
by Riding The F Train on Oct 17, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and Nate Davis has been quite clutch so far in the end of NFL games. Sure they are only pre-season, but it is at least college equivalent game experience. He has that never-say-die attitude.
by Riding The F Train on Oct 17, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did he do in the bowl game before he entered the draft? That game mattered a lot more than preseason and he wasn’t very clutch in that game. I need to see more from him before I think he is the future.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 18, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind
The head coach had just been fired and there was a lot of turmoil.
The entire team played poorly.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is true. I just don’t think Davis should stop us from drafting a QB next year. I’m not saying taking one with our 1st pick but if a quality prospect falls to us then I think we should take him.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 19, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh don’t get me wrong.
I’m all for drafting a QB in the draft, as long as the QB is the BPA.
If the player with the most value is a QB then I wouldn’t mind the pick.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Nate Davis actually started one of the Preseason games or came in real early to play against the 1st string defense
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Oct 18, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate's only start came in the final pre-season game.
Very few teams even play their starters that week – let alone leave them in for more than a series or two. Davis has never seen a first string NFL defense.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 18, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay he's dislexic, but Raye said he hasn't had problems digesting the playbook
They’re saying he hasn’t had reps in the offense and that’s all that’s slowing him down, that and he’s a rookie. Look at the QB in Miami a year on the bench in the same system for two offseasons does a lot for young QB’s!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter who Davis played against either. He showed poise, a great arm, a touch in his work this preseason
Some people here are putting him down because he didn’t play much against 1st string defense.. but what he did do was very impressive. Also the touch he puts on the ball is more like Montana… he isn’t there yet, of course but neither Hill or Smith have a good touch.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Oct 18, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
He didn’t play USC this week. Obviously Davis sucks cause the odds of where he was picks says he sucks.
by bignerd on Oct 18, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he sucks necessarily I just think we should see more then just one preseason before we start saying he is the future.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 19, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people are saying that
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? You are saying he sucks because he was drafted in the 5th round?
Tom Brady must suck really bad then!
I am saying he looked good in all the preseason games. He may have played against 2nd and 3rd stringers but he also played with 2nd and 3rd stringers.
What I saw was how he threw to each receiver, almost always leading the receiver… putting the ball where only the intended receiver could catch it.
And he had a really nice touch..
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Oct 19, 2009 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: I'm not kidding around when I say he's competing with Clausen as the best NFL QB prospect in the nation.
You may not be kidding but I find that comment extremely laughable.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 19, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Am A West Coast Guy Too
I saw him play against LSU, USC and Notre Dame. Don’t get me wrong he has a lot of talent.. What he has done for that Husky program is simply amazing and i have all the respect in the world. Yet i have seen a great deal of his throws not hit the target or sail on him. I believe he will be a good NFL QB
But all things created equal taking Clausen over Locker is a no brainer
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His Stats
Are not indicitive of how he has played. As Frog said that talent level on Washington beyond Locker just isn’t that great at least not yet. They do have a lot of nice young talent
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Reason Why
Clausen has better numbers beyond the fact that he is a great QB is that Locker doesn’t have the likes of Michael Floyd(injured), Golden Tate, Kyle Rudolph, Duvall Kumara and Robbie Paris to throw to.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Barkley outplayed Clausen
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 17, 2009 10:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But hes not coming out for awhile :)
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 17, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did You Watch The Game?
Barkley was never touched, he had all the time in the world, he was playing the 101st ranked pass defense in hte NCAA. Clausen was hit 21 times, sacked 6 times, had no rushing attack, was injured the entire game and was going up against the #2 defense in College Football. but he almost led them to a 3 TD comeback in the 4th with all that against him.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's The
Passion, strength and ability that makes a QB great. Now they didn’t win but to say that Barkley outplayed him is way over the top. Watch the game and you will know that is in no way the case. Stats aside!!!
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Clausen held his press confrence after deciding he was going to ND?
He held up all his High School championsip rings and talking about how he was going to do the same thing for Notre Dame. Well, hows that going for you Clausen? Their are several QB’s I’ld rather have over Clausen. Not to mention, we need to fill holes on the OLine and at the Safety position.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granted, he's a tool
But so is Jay Cutler….
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Jay Cutler has attitude problems…but he’s still an elite talent.
Clausen is also a douchebag but he’s got a lot of talent.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Sometimes Jay Cut comes off with a little too much swagger. Particularly in post game interviews
by Drew K on Oct 18, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Cutler's swagger
Never understood the hate. He’s money on the football field. It’s not a crime to not sound like a cheerleader in the post game interviews.
by bignerd on Oct 18, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a douchebag.
I want to punch him every time I see his smug little face.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 18, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would punch a diabetic?
He’s a hero.
Shame on you.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that he's diabetic only makes me want to punch him more.
Just kidding of course, but Cutler is probably my most disliked player in the NFL, although Darnell Dockett is giving him a run for his money.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 19, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darnell Dockett is annoying
He talks too much smack.
I guess I’ve always disliked Phillip Rivers, so Jay Cutler doesn’t bother me too much.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillip Rivers is a much bigger douchebag, imo.
My life would be complete if only I could punch that dude in the throat.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 19, 2009 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least that's possible.
Cutler doesn’t even have a throat. Go look at his pictures right now, he’s nothing but chin.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 21, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
by 49erLou on Oct 22, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Your Attacking
a 17 year old out of high school. Nice!!! Feel like a man?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Please
Name These QB’s you would rather have over Clausen
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
what’s wrong with a confident signal caller out of high school? Please tell me???
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he can't back it up?
A lot!
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he can back it up
Obviously not the stupid comments that he made.
But he is still one of (if not) the best at his position.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He deserves to be made fun of
He’s kind of a douche.
But it’s ok, it doesn’t affect his play.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! You really need to get over yourself.
I’m pointing to an incedent that only happened a few years ago. It shows the arrogance of Clausen. Maybe he’s changed since then. But their are several other QBs in college I’ld rather the 49ers chose.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t mind an arrogant QB if he gets the job done. I actually love the confidence. See Dan Marino and Joe Montana
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that's just it
He hasn’t got the job done. What has he done since coming to ND?
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Has He Had To Work With?
Did Peyton ever play for a national title?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
He couldn’t win the big game to get into the big game . . . . (rolling eyes) come on now!
by bignerd on Oct 17, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Does He Have
Did he lose that game for them? they were close because of him. Rolling my eyes and kicking at the monitor. Give me a break. So one player makes up for the other 21 right? Take Clausen from my Irish and they lose 52-0
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Calusen even face another good team this season?
Hawaii in a bowl game does not count? Sample size on Clausen is limited. Brady Quinn had the fans fooled.
by bignerd on Oct 17, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Probably in a BCS game because due to contracterial obligations Notre Dame just needs to win 9 games in order to be guaranteed a BCS game . They are 4-2 right now with a cupcake schedule to follow, so he will play Miami, Virginia Tech, Alabama/Florida, Texas, etc….
By the way who has Texas played? A 3 loss Oklahoma team? beyond that who?
What about Florida? LSU? Okay I will give you that. Beyond that who?
Lets talk about USC? a 2 loss Ohio State team that just lost to 1-4 Purdue? CAL which is what? 4-2? I mean they already lost to Washington a team ND already beat
You can make that argument with just about anyone. Now should ND be in a conference? Yes!!! It is there own ego that disables that considering the big ten has offered them membership 6 times. but how is that Clausen’s fault?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 18, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but he's the one who said it
Here’s the bottom line. I don’t like ND and I don’t like arrogant athletes who think they’re god’s gift to their sport. Maybe he’ll turn into an allstar football player. I’m not a profesional scout, so I don’t know. Neither does anyone posting on this board. I really do believe their are better QBs in next years draft, but I could be wrong. In fact, when you look at all the busts at the QB position, it looks like anyone could be wrong. If you think Clausen is the second coming of Joe Montane, great. I just don’t agree with you.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time Will Tell
Regarding that.
I see our issue now.
You hate ND and i am a ND alum.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 17, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
You forgot Max Hall. I think he’ll be one of the top 10 QB’s chosen.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2nd round probably
Living in Idaho i see a lot of BYU football. Hall is a great QB who’s got incredible passing accuracy. The last two season’s he’s completed 69% of his passes, and this from a team that likes to throw the ball.
I’d like to see us grab someone like him in the second round rather than pick up a first round QB and pay through the nose for it.
by smileyman on Oct 18, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we take a QB at the end of the first round then it shouldn’t cost too much money but I agree I would be thrilled to see Pike fall to us in the second. He has great value there.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 19, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's Pike's injury status?
He injured his non-throwing arm right?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea he broke his non-throwing arm last season and had a plate and pins put in and I guess the plate moved when he was hit. As of right now he is going to see a specialist about it. Here is an article on ESPN abou it.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Oct 19, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I can’t believe I misspelled Joe Montana.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 17, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, this was the best pic I could find....still, shame on you
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Don't Ever Attack Me By Saying
“I Need To Get Over Myself”
That is not an attack that i will ignore in the future.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 18, 2009 4:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marino didn't win didley squat
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 3:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Ever
Use that “Get Over Yourself” put down against me. Next time i will make a joke out of that BS comment
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 18, 2009 4:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Digital Gangsta?
Email Brive bys?………………..lmao
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you could see me
You’ld see me making a “W” with my thumbs and index fingers. You attacked me first. Clausen made a ridiculous comment about winning 4 National Championships when he was a few months away from being old enough to vote and go and die in war. That’s old enough to held accountable for what he says.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
by urnext on Oct 18, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he still out played him
Clausen misfired on the last two plays of the game. I know his WR slipped but he misfired at the goaline!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't misfire
The other dude slipped.
That’s not Clausen’s fault.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incomplete is incomplete it didn't look like a good throw anyway the defender had an easy pass deflection
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't judge a QB's career by one or two plays
Sheesh. Joe Montana had made plenty of bone-head plays. So has Steve Young. Every QB does it—none of ’em are perfect.
by smileyman on Oct 18, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how do you figure that's what I did?
All I said is he was outplayed in ONE game, now if that’s his career so be it. Frankly this Clausen Johnson riding is ridiculous, he’s not even coming out this year!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
He torched a crappy pass defense, had all of the time in the world to throw and his TE made some great plays.
He’ll probably be a good QB sometime in the future, but he’s not at Clausen’s level yet.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never said he was at Clausen's level but he out played him. He managed the game extremely well for his age
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Said
He outplayed him. Whatever are you talking about?
he still out played him
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 18, 2009 4:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
outplaying him one game doesn't mean he was on his level.
Commentators on ESPN say the same
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did not outplay him
He played well, but no way did he outplay Jimmy Clausen.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
He managed the Offense well, was he on the road or ws Clausen?
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give up on you
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering that Barkley had a defense and a running game behind him ;)
by Hoopers Judge on Oct 18, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
we should just wait a couple years on drafting a QB and see how Montanas kid Nick does at U of Washington. He already signed his intent. Locker will be gone and if does well, he’s got a shot at starting next year for the Huskies
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 10:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nick?
That could take like 4 more years.
Why wait for him when some other guy at his level might be available this year?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To much pressure to have Montana's kid as a 49er
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 years
fresh next year and sophmore the following. It could take 4…but if he’s there and does well, I think that would be awesome. You can always draft QB’s… If history repeats itself witht he QB situation for the next couple years then why not?
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not two years
2009: Still in HS
2010: Likely to redshirt (they don’t have the program to start a true freshman)
2011: redshirt Freshman starts for a year
2012 redshirt sophomore starts for a year
2013: enters NFL draft?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 17, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I guess...
it’s not likely anyway… I just think that would so awesome if he ended up being good and we could get him
by Drew K on Oct 17, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like lala land
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
New 49ers Strategy
Lets wait for the next Montana, this being his son LMFAO
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Oct 18, 2009 2:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats 3 more years? Why not?
It’s not like we’ve exactly been watching premier QB’s for the the last 14 years. The more I watch the several QB’s that will be coming out next year, the less convinced I become.
by Drew K on Oct 18, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Colt McCoy/Gore/Coffee/Davis/Crabtree/Morgan
by haynbredren on Oct 18, 2009 6:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
?
You saw how bad Colt McCoy sucked yesterday.
Why do you still want him?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 18, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy is over rated like most Texas QB's
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy, Tebow they both suck. Bradford is ok but get hurts to much. The best is either Locker or Clausen
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 18, 2009 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Still doesn't make them worth a 1st round pick to the Niners
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 19, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
They have huge upside and both look very promising.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue because the Niners have bigger needs that are more safely addressed
Plus I like the QB talent that will be available later.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Oct 20, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nocal?
Uh are you saying you want to draft a QB in the first round now? Weren’t you the one that argued tooth and nail in my post about NOT drafting a QB in 1st round? WOW how times have changed.
by hudd07 on Oct 18, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Note the title of the thread. It would appear he believes he is wrong, now.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Oct 19, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I got that....
Just wanted to hear it outloud again. LOL
by hudd07 on Oct 19, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can hear the internet?
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
by 49erLou on Oct 19, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the modem noise?
People still have that?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes they do
Horrible, horrible experience . . .
by bignerd on Oct 19, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have ISP
Internet Sensory Perception ;-)
by hudd07 on Oct 21, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i got a question who do you think is going to be more NFL ready to start next year,
Nate Davis???
or any of the Qb’s you listed above???
by whitemike1644 on Oct 18, 2009 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Davis
Worked out well for the QB in miami
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
i think that when your spending top 10, top 15 draft money on a QB that he should be your best option to come in that year and start.
I don’t think any of this years QB’s are going to come in next year and give us a better chance to win. Nate Davis skills and size make him hard for me to not give a chance to start a full year.
even if we do take a QB i don’t see how they would take the starting job. then we will just see a bunch of post about how we should bench said be QB for his rookie year.
by whitemike1644 on Oct 18, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only hing I don't like about Davis is the untraditional throwing
You know with the laces, I heard Young say it affects accuracy, but Raye said it’s too late to change it now. Then the glove thing (Kurt Warner style) just not high on it. But if he is to have a chance we can’t draft a QB in the 1st round
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It affects his accuracy... he beat all other QBs in the Accuracy in a passing contest.. sorry I can't find the youtube on it.
He was also ranked 3rd after Stafford and Sanchez for the 2009 QBs in the draft. The reason he fell to the 5th was his learning disability but the 49ers found a system that works for him.
In the preseason he only showed poise and a great touch. That fact that he does not throw with the laces means nothing as that is how he always threw. A case in point is that Hill and Smith both throw with the laces and aren’t that accurate.
I say, give him the opportunity to succeed next preseason. Draft another QB this year in a later round…. Maybe someone will thing that Clausen has acne and he will fall to the 5th round.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Oct 18, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
he can’t throw it any worse than sanchez is throwing it right now… 5 picks lol he grabs the laces with no glove for the record…hehe
by whitemike1644 on Oct 18, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your hands are big enough, throwing without the laces makes absolutely no difference.
And (obviously) Davis only does that out of the shotgun – when taking snaps under center, he throws with the same grip as anyone else.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 18, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard Steve Young say on ESPN that it affects accuracy
I dont know if it does, but from his highlight reel, he didn’t make a lot of accurate throws. I liked what I seen as far as a rookie is concerned, it’s just wierd to me with the gloves and no laces, but to each his own I’m really behind the kid and would have played him in the 4th with the first team in the Falcons game!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun of no fun
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea this mentality
is why sheets isn’t on our team anymore…
can’t pass block so let him go… jeez
by whitemike1644 on Oct 18, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes no sense
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun of no fun
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its in reference to him not throwing with the laces...
thinking that a Qb that throws with no laces or with gloves or both, means he is not as good as the next QB, is the same as saying a Rb that can’t pass block makes him lesser than the Rb that does.
we shouldn’t have passed up on sheets because he couldn’t pass block.
and you can’t turn away from Davis because he uses gloves and throws with no laces.
by whitemike1644 on Oct 18, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh...no? Those two things are completely different.
Pass blocking is a big part of playing the running back position in the NFL. If you can’t pass block, then you’re a casualty every time you’re on the field and not carrying the ball. Steve Young might have a thing or two to say about the importance of a halfback’s pass-blocking skills. Lawrence Phillips’ inability to recognize and pick up a blitz is what led to Young’s early retirement.
I do agree that it’s idiotic to question a QB’s ability to play based on his usage of the laces or gloves, though. If anything, those two cancel each other out – as the only argument against not using the laces is for grip, and wearing gloves is just another means of accomplishing that same thing. It’s like saying that a receiver who doesn’t wear gloves will never have hands like a guy who wears them. Absurdity.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Oct 18, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say that that why it makes no sense
It’s my only worry with Davis due to what I heard young say about zip on the spiral and hurting accuracy.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun of no fun
by rlott#42 on Oct 18, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone pencilling Davis into our QB spot.....
Should go back and watch Cleo Lemon games for the Chargers from the 2005 preseason…..he was Randall Cunningham reborn, absolutely torching 2nd and 3rd string defenses all camp.
I mean, I like what I saw from Davis too, he has some undeniable natural talent. But get real about him playing QB anywhere in the NFL for a few years. He has a ton of development to do, more than most guys entering the NFL, and needs to sit and watch for a bit.
All the clamor for this or that college QB is funny to watch…..half of these guys fail to live up to expectations, but every years its “oh but this guy can’t miss!”. Then they get the guy and want to get rid of him before he even develops.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 19, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
i'm confused
so are you saying draft a qb???
or are you saying let Davis sit and go through another year of Hill?
you bashed on Davis’ starting opportunities and then said that most college Qb’s aren’t worth a damn.
so i’m guessing your ok with hill starting next year and davis still sitting.
i could live with that also davis having more time to learn hasn’t hurt anyone, i’m just hoping hill doesn’t fall flat on his face in the process
by whitemike1644 on Oct 19, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hill = no
If I’m the Niners I’m already playing Smith over Hill, and have been all season. I’m more patient with QBs – I don’t rush Davis, nor do I write off Smith for early struggles.
Every guy is different, some can come in and play, others will be permanently scarred from a few bad years. But all things being equal, outside of a few rare individuals you should be sitting most of your young QBs.
Its the hardest position in sports and some of the best QBs have had serious struggles, to the point of not looking like NFL quarterbacks, early in their careers. Its crazy to look at these guys when they’re 22 or 23 and say they’ll never amount to anything.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 19, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just going by all the comments we’ve seen over the years of how Smith will struggle with any offensive system until he learns it, I’d sit Smith to start the year too. If, at the halfway point, Hill is getting beaten badly, or is producing at a low enough level that you think Smith would be an upgrade, then I’d give him an opportunity to prove his worth.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Oct 19, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The hardest position in sports has to be the Gater Aide Boy..
I mean those guys are constantly running around and holding those bottles….even while the players are drinking… I wonder if they are even given a Super Bowl Ring when the team wins it?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Oct 19, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
My sentiments exactly.
Water boys should have their own union or league minimum pay..something like that.
I’m down to play Smith providing Hill continues to struggle or plays like he did vs Atlanta. I just wish there was a way to stop Smith from throwing the ball to the other team.
by carbone on Oct 19, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree 100%
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injury will do that to you
Not every QB we draft will be Montana or Young.
"Bar None!" - William Floyd
by maveric_87 on Oct 20, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injury to the gator aide dude?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 20, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Hiller or Javon Snead
"Bar None!" - William Floyd
by maveric_87 on Oct 19, 2009 3:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jevan Snead needs to get his head out of his ass.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 19, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll make for a solid 2nd round pick
"Bar None!" - William Floyd
by maveric_87 on Oct 20, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a guaranteed first rounder even if he continues to suck ass,
based on the virtue of a strong-arm and being in a pro-style offense.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 21, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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