The List of Problems
by SSC24 on Oct 25, 2009 3:14 PM PDT
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PrintHere are the problems that the Forty Niners have in order of least importance to greatest importance (although they are all very important).
Pass rush (Schaub was sacked only after 3-4 seconds had passed), as usual.
Jason Hill and Brandon Jones are not only not playing, but are inactive. They aren't even suited up. Why? So that the likes of Isaac Bruce and Josh Morgan can play...The word "inactive" pisses me off...SO MUCH!!!
Shaun Hill locking on a single target the whole way, making it super-easy for defenders to know where he's going with the ball (will he remain the starter?).
Jimmy Raye's offense is too predictable and not creative at all (I need not explain more). Until the Forty Niners were forced to throw (with Alex Smith in there) the offensive plays looked like complete and absolute crap: players catching balls only to be hit right when the ball touched their hands...predictable runs on EVERY SINGLE second down...the list goes on and on...Although I was impressed with Alex Smith and his pass plays.
The way I see it, we need to go with Smith at QB right now. He has legs that he can use to get away from pressure, shake off defenders, pick up first downs, etc. Hill's habit of locking on his target from the start of the play can lead to ugly interceptions. Now how about seeing less of the Bruce/Morgan combo and seeing more of Hill/Jones?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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As far as I see it...
Alex Smith is definitely better suited for the passing game while Shaun Hill seems better suited for the running game. I think the actual problem the 49ers are having is that they have two good types of quarterbacks divided between…two different quarterbacks. Quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Steve Young were what they were because they more equilibrium in the issue of passing versus rushing.
The trouble I see with Alex Smith is that he can lose focus during enormous pressure, and he doesn’t seem to maintain his composure all the way. On the other hand, the trouble with Shaun Hill so far is that he won’t try to get the ball out if he’s under pressure, and has the propensity to rather take a sack or go three and out rather than take the risk. But if we really are going to open up the passing game, Alex Smith is definitely our guy. With a bit of psychological coaching and preparation I think Alex Smith can overcome the anxiety he seems to have (in my opinion), under greater pressure, that leads to him throwing interceptions.
In hindsight, Smith has definitely got the arm and accuracy, but he doesn’t have the focus just yet.
Smith connects really well with the receiving core, nonetheless.
I only wish
Alex Smith had finished the comeback and won the game. I know he’s the future, and therefore it would be very beneficial for him to finish a game like this with a win and a feeling of confidence. I hope he starts the next game. He’s definitely jump-started our pass offense.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
How are you so sure on the type of quarterback that Smith is
when he hasn’t played a snap in 2 years? He played great today, and being down 21 -0 isn’t a pressure situation?
Shaun Hill seems better suited for the running game.
I’m pretty sure I could hand the ball off pretty well. A QB is hired to be part of the passing game. Yes, there’s some audibling for run plays, calling out blocking schemes (though centers are doing this more and more), etc. But a QB’s job is to throw the ball.
But if we really are going to open up the passing game
You mean that the Niners coaching staff isn’t going to rely on the single worst running game in the league? That’s crazy enough that it just might work!
With a bit of psychological coaching and preparation I think Alex Smith can overcome the anxiety he seems to have (in my opinion), under greater pressure, that leads to him throwing interceptions.
Watch replays of Brady in his first few games back from injury. He was a little gun shy. How’s he look now? Great, like his old self. It takes time to get back into the flow of things after a serious injury. I also don’t really see what you’re talking about.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
While [ part ] of the quarterback's job is to throw the ball...
The quarterback is also responsible for articulating the plays called to the rest of the offense. In this sense, the quarterback is also a game manager. When I said that I think Shaun Hill may be better suited for the run game, I was referring to the probability that he might be better at handing off the ball and faking the pass, as opposed to just plainly handing off the ball.
If we really are going to open up the passing game, we will need a quarterback who can read the blitz and get the ball out to the receivers in time. Alex Smith obviously does a better job at that, in my opinion. I base my opinion on what I have seen of him not just today, but in previous years as well.
In all fairness, I don’t think Tom Brady is all that great a quarterback. He has an assortment of competent members of his offense who allow him to make the throws he makes. But likewise, he also has receivers who are good enough to catch his throws and make the plays. If we were to only gauge offensive performance on the quarterback alone, Joe Montana would have won a super bowl for the Kansas City Chiefs.
I’m sorry you didn’t fully get what I was talking about. What I meant to say is that I think Alex Smith is better suited for the passing game if the management wants to go in that direction. If we want to insist on the predictable, mediocre running game and expect the defense to win for us, we should stick with Shaun Hill since he is less likely to throw interceptions.
I hope this helps.
The quarterback is also responsible for articulating the plays called to the rest of the offense.
So the QB needs to speak and fake going for a pass? I think I could do that alright too. Heck, I could even put on a silly accent to keep everyone loose.
In all fairness, I don’t think Tom Brady is all that great a quarterback.
This is just ridiculous.
He has an assortment of competent members of his offense who allow him to make the throws he makes.
He’s been excellent for years. Just because he has Randy Moss and makes Wes Welker look good doesn’t mean he isn’t great.
2001: Antowain Smith, Troy Brown, David Patten.
2002: Antowain Smith, Troy Brown, David Patten.
2003: Antowain Smith, Deion Branch, Kevin Faulk.
2004: Corey Dillon, David Givens, David Patten.
2005: Corey Dillon, Deion Branch, David Givens.
2006: Corey Dillon, Laurence Maroney, Reche Caldwell
Who the heck are these guys?!?!
It wasn’t until 2007 (AFTER their SB victories) that he had Welker & Moss. You could argue that Deion Branch and Corey Dillon count in the “assortment of competent members of his offense,” but that’d be a stretch. Branch has done nothing since leaving and Dillon was on his last legs. Is his like good? Yeah, sure, but that cuts both ways and goes for lots of good QBs.
If we were to only gauge offensive performance on the quarterback alone, Joe Montana would have won a super bowl for the Kansas City Chiefs.
Too bad he didn’t have Ronny Lott, Roger Craig, John Taylor, Charles Haley, Brent Jones, Tom Rathman, Romo… I feel like I’m forgetting someone. Oh yeah! The greatest receiver (player) of all time, Jerry Rice! Man, if he’d had those guys he definitely would have won in KC.
When he was playing for the Niners, Montana had a good line and the GOAT to catch his passes. You ding Brady for having good teams around him, but don’t do the same for Montana. Umm… sorry, that’s neither fair, nor accurate. But is homeristic, so you’ve got that going for you! Look, both Brady and Montana are/were great, once in a generation, talents that make others around them better.
If we want to insist on the predictable, mediocre running game and expect the defense to win for us, we should stick with Shaun Hill since he is less likely to throw interceptions.
I had been making this argument, and it works out fine if the running game is actaully somewhat working. But it’s been too many weeks that the “predictable, mediocre running game” has been the “predictable, terrible, anemic, useless running game that can’t generate a single first down.” No matter how good our defense is, they can’t keep defending if our offense keeps going 3 & out every game. And no matter how good of a “game manager” your QB is, unless he can convert tons of 3rd & long passes, he can’t be productive with a “predictable, terrible, anemic, useless running game.” If the running game can’t generate yardage, the passing game has to, or you’re going to lose the field position battle.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 26, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I know I'm nitpicking but
…makes Wes Welker look good…
Do you doubt his talent? You wouldn’t want him on the 49er roster?
Let Smith run the Westcoast Spread we are a passing team. I don’t think raye is a bad coordinator he is just trying to play to the team strengths which with hill is the short stuff but now he has room to work with since he has somebody with arm strength which should open up the playbook :)
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 25, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions
I don't think Raye changed the gameplan due to Smith's insertion, though.
It was because the Forty Niners were 21 points behind and needed to throw in order to score fast. But, in doing so, he definitely helped Alex Smith gain know where he stands as an NFL QB and I bet he’ll sleep well tonight after his 3 TD performance, although the loss was gut-wrenching.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Morgan, Crabtree and Jones is the way to go.
Jones can really stretch the defense and Crabtree catches almost everything going his way.
Then you add Vernon Davis and that is the best set of targets that Alex Smith has ever seen. It is a lot easier for a QB like Smith if the receivers actually catch the ball like they did for him today.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
You must be extremely frustrated thinking that Morgan isn't better than Hill
Frankly our problem is not having those guys playing, but actually having those players. We aren’t using them because we don’t need them. Smith locks in on targets as well.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun!
Hill is better than Morgan because
1) He’s sure-handed
2) He can get open (separation)
3) He’s A LOT faster (4.32 40)
4) He’s better at avoiding tackles (check out his highlights from last year)
The one thing Morgan does better than Hill is blocking.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Morgan dropped a couple of wounded ducks, so what.
That 40 times means nil if you can’t block. Teams play the best ALL AROUND player at each position. This is not a game saving issue. Morgan played half the time and had the same stats as last year….check the stats, highlights can make anyone look good!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun!
OK
highlights can make anyone look good!
That’s why they’re called “high” lights.
Morgan had 20 catches last year (10 less than Hill).
I’m not saying Hill can’t block. Just saying Morgan is better at it. Also, the WR position is more about receiving, hence the name. Hill is better at getting open and catching, due to his speed, quickness and talent. Morgan seems more rigid when he runs routes, making it easier for DBs to stick closer to him.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
When are DB's sticking close.
If you don’t have the ball delivered right you’re not gonna have many yac yards. You’re talking about Hill as if he would give us a better chance to win. A no blocking WR, who is only good on passing downs? That’s ridiculous, Morgan gets open he did this game. He also made a TD catch that wasn’t open in the Rams game.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun!
Hill would give us a better chance to win, IMO.
A better chance than Morgan gives us. Again, I never said Hill cannot block, and he’s actually very clutch on 3rd downs. Morgan isn’t even sure-handed (meaning, you can’t rely on him to catch a pass every time). I admit, this was one of Morgan’s better games, but, even though we scored 21 points, he wasn’t a major part of the offense. He’s just not a game-changing WR. IMO, if given the chance, Hill can be. I’m not asking you to agree with my opinion. I’m simply stating it. Btw, in that same rams game, Morgan missed the deep ball, remember (which leads back to my original point where I said he’s not sure-handed).
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Morgan is better than Hill, Morgan had a half a season last year, hill played all season
And there was a 10 catch seperation, between them. Do you watch any games? I don’t need you to agree with me. Obviously Hill is next to nothing, he didn’t suit up at all. But, I hear what you are saying, play this guy although you have to watch what you call when he’s in the game, since blocing has nothing to do with receiving. THAT’S HILARIOUS, another 5th grade philosipher posting!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
Actually,
All of Hills Receptions in 2008 came in week 8 or later, after he was put into the lineup.
I was "Deific16"
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Oct 25, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you Sultan.
Have YOU been watching any games, rlott?
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Morgan is the more complete WR
He seems to be able to jump higher, he’s stronger, he can obviously block better, and he just seems more polished this year than Jason Hill did last year.
I still think that Morgan (flanker), Crabtree (split) and Hill (slot) would be the best combination of WRs for the future.
Plus you have VD, Walker, and Gore as targets too….we’re not short on offensive weapons.
:)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Morgan's only second on our team in receptions and receiving yards ...
… let’s bench him for the guy who hasn’t even been able to get on the active roster!
Dude Morgan is better than Hill
Pay more attention during games dude.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Grasshoppers
list of problem
1.) this post
2.) apples
3.) lunchmeat
4.) oops wrong list
I kid, not really but seriously. Hey if you have a problem with play calling I would argue this: The playcalling is fine. Execution is more the problem. That’s not to say that play calling is perfect I’m just making a case for the play calling in general.
Because this is a long season. We can’t show our hand this early can we? I should think not. All great coaches, coordinators keep some plays on reserve for lack of a better term. Maybe I’m wrong.
Because one could easily argue that if you have plays on reserve then you should use them. But nay I say.
Better still to save some for the next time we matchup againgst the Hawks, Rams, a Cards. And better still to save even more more the playoffs. The is chess not checkers. Wait maybe it is checkers wtf do I know?
Patrick Willis a.k.a Sir Patrickus of Willis, a.k.a Tackle Los Tackleotos, a.k.a Ingrid VonTacklestein, a.k.a PW=MC2, a.k.a. Piere Tackleshire, a.k.a Your Neighborhood Tackle Dealer, son to Tacklesbeast with Foot behind Back and Tacklesse El Regina de Los Tackle Cosa Nostra un Sack For Loss, grandson to Hector the Tackle Tacklessetotentine, great great grand son of...
Sometimes it's better not to include some plays, in general...
Especially the ones that go to the receiver when he’s near the sidelines and maybe a yard in front of the line of scrimmage. No matter how well you execute them, you can only get 2-3 yards at most. Those are the plays I hate most. Why bother even putting them into the playbook? If you want at least 2-3 yards, go for a running play instead. Interesting concept you mentioned about saving plays-kinda funny, too- my standpoint on that is, if I can win with a play, I’ll use it instead of saving it for another game. I still got another week to prepare some other plays for the next game.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
when executed those plays go for big gains and TD's
See Welker’s highlights
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun!
Well,
When they go to Isaac Bruce, they go no where. So why do them?
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
When you coach a team.....let me know so I can come and critique you!
Offenses remain simple until everyone can grasp the concept of execution, blamig WR’s isn’t the way to go
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun!
What do you think the Forty Niners offense has been doing since July?
Practicing. There’s been almost 3 months of practice and (not counting this game) 5 games. That is A LOT OF TIME to get the basics down. After all of that, we’re still talking about the “concept of execution (as you put it)?” What are you smoking? Also, I’m not blaming WRs. I’m blaming the OC for misevaluating the talent of his WRs and putting the ones with less of it on the field (IMO).
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Why is it that teams with new OC's struggle in the first half of the season?
Why do teams want to keep an OC? It’s called continuity, and it obviously is over your head. You have blitz pickups, packages, routes blocking adjustments. It’s a very complex thing, these NFL playbooks. Before you try the difficult yo have to master what’s simple, you have to crawl before you walk. Everyone can’t be me!!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
True. Continuity is essential in the NFL to have success.
It’s a shame that in order for us to have continuity, we must have Jimmy Raye for another year. The teams that take “half a season (training camp, four preseason games plus eight regular season games),” as you say, to master a particular scheme are the mediocre ones (not just during the first half, but the second half as well). A team must really suck to take that long to learn. Yes, playbooks are complicated, but athletes are people. Not only that, but athletes tend to be stupid (check out the average wonderlic score of NFL players, for example). All these not-so-smart guys need to do is know where to be/what to do/what route to run/what zone to guard/who to cover/etc. and memorize the nomenclature and know what the play is called. If three months isn’t enough if you’re doing that every day (repetitively and competitively living and breathing football), I don’t know how dumb one can be for something to not stick in one’s mind.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Name a good team that has caught on slower.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Ha
Battle and Bruce definitely don’t belong.
I’ve created an alliteration. Haha
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Not arguing Battle or Bruce, but I will argue Morgan, he's a better all around WR
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun!
I definitely think the play calling needs to become less run oriented.
Alex Smith hasn’t had the kind of targets that he had today in his entire SF career. There was a time when Battle was our #2 wideout. BATTLE!!!
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
The lack of pass rush is killing the whole defense. Can we blame the defensive coaches for any of that or is it just personnel?
Hill does more than telegraph his throws, he does something with his body when he throws that makes it the easiest thing in the world to know where the ball is going. I suspect that has something to do with him being a little scared and not setting his feet and also short-arming his throws.
Amy Mainzer my brain thinks your brain is HOT!
"or is it just personnel?"
Bingo. Justin Smith is good but he can’t do it by himself. Manny Lawson is a decent all-around player but it’s clear he isn’t going to be a pass-rush demon, at least this season. Haralson wasn’t really that great last season either so his drop-off hasn’t surprised me.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 25, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Solution to all the problems:
Just throw it to Crabtree, baby.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
Problems with pass-rush?
Just throw to Crabtree, baby.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 25, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
He can play DB too?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
He also played basketball.....
So what?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Hill is better than Morgan?
How do you figure?
Morgan looked to get a lot of PT last year and got hurt. Hill’s been in the league a year longer, and can’t even get on the field.
This is nonsense. Hill is a potential bust. All the reports out of training camp were that he appeared to not be getting it, while Morgan was drawing raves.
Issac Bruce? Honeslty, I think he’s done. Time for him to hang ’em up. But Hill over Morgan?
What has Hill ever done to deserve such consideration?
Apparently, he ran a fast 40 time or something.
I’m not too sure myself.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 25, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, but
it’s not about what Hill has done, but what Morgan has not, and what Hill can.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
What hasn't Morgan done?
He dropped ONE big-time pass from Shaun Hill vs. the Rams.
Other than that he has outplayed Bruce and is probably going to be a starting WR with the 49ers for a long time.
What can Hill do?
Run fast vertically and occasionally make a big play (sounds like a slot WR to me).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is what?
Break tackles to make long plays? Morgan has done that.
Are you Hill’s agent or something?
Hill was outstanding
the latter half of last season and makes plays whenever he gets into the game. Excellent on special teams as well. We should go with 4 wideouts: Crabtree, Morgan, Jones and Hill. Put Brooooce out to pasture.
Kezarvet
Thank you kezarvet.
I know you would know a great deal about the talent we have since you’ve been following football for the longest time of anyone on NN.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Don't you mean you're glad someone agreed with you. (said Hill's name)
What does being a niner fan longer have to do with judging talent that’s been on the team the last three years?
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
Actually,
I’ve read quite a few of kezarvet’s posts and he’s mentioned multiple times the he has a liking for Hill and would like to see him get playing time as a #2 / #3 WR, which I agree with.
What does being a niner fan longer have to do with judging talent that’s been on the team the last three years?
Are you kiddin’ me? Are you 12?
Have some respect for your elders (those who have watched football for a longer period of time than you have and therefore know more about players/their tendancies/needs/abilities/attributes/etc.).
That’s just the way I think. If you think differently, that’s your business.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
He's not a troll
He has just been misled and hasn’t paid enough attention during games.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Jason Hill
I’m pretty sure I saw #89 suited up in the 4th quarter on the field for special teams. I could be wrong but I thought I saw him
He was inactive
Maybe you saw a weird angle and saw No. 83, or 88…
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 25, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Hill can learn to return kicks or punts
Sorta a natural job for slot receivers and even wanna-be ones.
In Madden 08
I always used Hill as the kick returner.
One of these guys needs to approach the coaching staff and ask them for an opportunity to help returning kicks/punts.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Oct 26, 2009 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions
not enough wiggle--nor enough break-tackle
I love his speed, but he doesn’t have the “I’m-gonna-fly-myself-into-those-guys-running-full-tilt-against-me” ability that Rossum had (still don’t know why they released him)—which is a requisite for a KR. I like Hill as a receiver, though.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
Michael Robinson
averaged 33 yards per kickoff return yesterday. You never have to worry about him fumbling and he gives 100%. He should remain at that position and they need to start using him as a receiver out of the backfield. Coffee is out of his league at this point, makes too many mistakes, and is only a so-so blocker. Robinson has much better hands and if we go to a spread offense is the best choice.
Kezarvet
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