49ers QBs Alex Smith vs. Shaun Hill: The QB debate to end all QB debates
by David Fucillo on Oct 26, 2009 5:00 AM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintFooch's Note 3:20pm: We've got a new thread to continue this continued discussion. The new thread looks at the impact of the QB change on the rushing game, and also includes Mike Singletary's Monday transcript.
Editor's note: As many expected, Mike Singletary named Alex Smith starting QB for this Sunday's game at Indianapolis. Plenty more to come, but we'll keep the discussion going here.
When I was putting together today's links, I came across a rather amusing little line over at Shutdown Corner:
Do the 49ers have a quarterback controversy? And is a 49ers quarterback controversy the NFL equivalent of a pillow fight? We can but wait and see...
The QB debate the past few years has often a bit more sad than enthralling. The 49ers have long looked for the "QB of the future," but have often been stick with mediocrity. And yet for 49ers fans, the position remains so enthralling in a car wreck kind of way. Exhibit 1: Yesterday's 49ers-Texans recap thread. The shocking return of Alex Smith has generated a whole lot of buzz in 49ers land; enough to warrant a new thread after 600+ comments in less than 12 hours.
Later today Mike Singletary will be holding his weekly Monday morning post-game press conference (around noon pacific time). 49ers.com usually shows it live, so either head over then, or we'll make sure to get a link up to it. In yesterday's post-game press conference, Coach Singletary indicated he hadn't made a decision yet on the QB for next week and needed to review the game tape first. While most of us think Alex Smith deserves to definitely be starting, it makes sense for Singletary to double check things on the tape. And given that today and tomorrow are not the most productive days for players in terms of practice, it makes sense not to rush this decision.
I've included a poll asking who should be starting QB next week against the Colts. I only included Nate Davis because he's a QB on the roster. Personally, and on behalf of a majority of people here, I think Nate Davis should never touch the playing field this season. That's a debate for another time, but if you strongly feel Nate Davis should be starting, and vote accordingly, please comment with reasons why.
So there are two questions then: 1) Who should start between Alex Smith and Shaun Hill, and 2) If Smith, what can we expect from him with a full week of #1 practice and the Colts game-planning accordingly?
In regards to #1, I am definitely on the start Smith side. He showed a tremendous amount of poise and skill in making numerous plays yesterday. When the pocket collapsed he moved around and his only real mistake was the interception at the end of the game on 4th down. In spite of what some folks said (a small but vocal group), I certainly won't rag him for that INT. He was the reason the 49ers were in the game and those things happen on 4th and long in desperation situations.
We answer question 2 and I give my general opinion on all this after the jump...
As for question #2, I'm really not sure what to expect from Alex Smith. After all, Smith is completely healthy for the first time in years. Is he really as good as he was yesterday, a guy on pace for 400+ yards? Obviously no QB is going to put up those kind of numbers on an everyday basis (I mean the pace he was on). But does he have the potential to throw up 300+ yards on a semi-consistent basis? Or was yesterday's performance more just something that happened due to the adrenaline of the moment?
If you think he can consistently put up those numbers, then you have to be convinced he's still got potential as QB of the future. I'm not necessarily saying he's a long term answer once again, but he does have a lot more talent at his disposal than he did back in 2007, and he's healthy for the first time since 2006. 2006 his numbers were not particularly good, but given his sign of improvement that year, maybe there's something to him after all. It's waaaaaay too early to be thinking he's back as the "franchise QB" (or even there for the first time).
So where do I stand? Well, when Shaun Hill won the job with less than stellar preseason play I really hoped he'd step up and take care of his business. However, even while winning games he was not doing that. The last two games and generally football history have shown that long term, a franchise without a once in a lifetime defense cannot be a great team without some solid QB play.
Given that the team will not be adding any QBs until at least the offseason, I kind of like the idea of giving Smith one last chance to make something of himself. In spite of all the crap he's gone through with Nolan and the press, Alex Smith has shown himself to be a man (any excuse to show that press conference is worthwhile). Even while hurt and unable to practice, he stuck around working with the QBs last season. He took a drastic paycut to compete here in San Francisco instead of potentially sitting behind a veteran elsewhere. Given all his guaranteed money from the draft that's not such a huge sacrifice, but I do think it says something about him. He's put in the time and energy and clearly wants to turn things around here in San Francisco.
One of the reasons people like Shaun Hill is they generally "like" him as a person. I think Alex Smith deserves similar praise as a person. He's 25 years old but has been through a career's worth of crap, and come out at the end not entirely the worse for wear. He's been completely supportive of Shaun Hill when many guys might have been bitter about everything. Of course liking a guy isn't sufficient to build a franchise, but it makes it easier to support a decision to elevate the player back into the starting lineup.
I have no idea what the future holds for Alex Smith. It's entirely possible he could turn himself back into a franchise QB. He could win comeback player of the year (man would that be sweet). He could also show yesterday was a fluke. These final 10 games could be it for him as a 49er. Whatever the case, if Alex Smith gets a chance to start going forward, we'll finally get an answer to the long puzzling question of how good or bad is he really as a QB. There are no more excuses. Sure the offensive line isn't great, but it's probably better than it was the year he busted up his shoulder. He's got the new offensive coordinator, but one could argue he's had sufficient time learning the playbook without playing.
There are no more excuses for Alex Smith in my opinion. People wished he had been able to sit behind a veteran for a couple years to learn how to be a QB in this league. He hasn't exactly sat behind great QBs, but maybe the last two seasons of inactivity (since the initial shoulder injury in 2007) are that time he needed to sit. Whatever the case, he potentially has a great opportunity in front of him.
Let the Alex Smith era begin, however brief or extended it might be.
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without a doubt smith should start
if he played that entire game yesterday we’d have won easy. Sing should not look back and play the year out with Alex as the qb! GO ALEX!!!
This is an ideal game for him to start
because if we lose it, oh well, we’re still 3-0 against the conference, but we’ll have gained a better idea of what he can do so the staff will have a better idea of who to start when we face the hawks or the cardinals.
On the other hand, if Smith puts up impressive stats against Indy, they won’t be as easy to discount like they would if he was playing the titans or something
this is pretty much my position
The Indy game is as close to a automatic L as we are going to get; might as well let Alex have a shot.
However, I suspect that Sign will not drop Hill like that out of loyalty. He might have a quick hook on him.
One thing the niners coaching might try is to decide early (say today or tomorrow after reviewing ALL the film) but keep the controversy alive in the press to deceive the Colts and force them to game plan vs. both.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
there's no way.
If 200 yards and 3 TD in a half isn’t good enough to play your way into the starting lineup, what is? I could understand some controversy if Smith had passed for, say, 130 and 1 TD, but come on. That was quite simply the best quarterback play we’ve had since the 4th quarter of the game in Seattle in ’06.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I am not a football coach
but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they ought to be able to review film (they have cameras on every guy) and determine how much of the “good” Alex Smith was him, and how much was some mediocre Texans defense, etc.
Starters just don’t lose their jobs like that in the NFL. Especially starting QBs with winning records who don’t make a huge number of turnovers for a team that is “built to run the ball”. (Note that I don’t buy any of that nonsense… but that doesn’t mean someone important doesn’t)
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I haven't seen the game, but I'm on the Smith bandwagon
The numbers don’t lie—200+ yards and 3 TDs in one half tell me everything I need to know.
For all the Shaun Hill supporters, I truly believe that he is a better QB than his play the last game and a half have indicated. The offensive line certainly has a lot to do with his struggles. However, couldn’t it be the case that defenses can game-plan for him in such a way that he feels the difficulty of a porous offensive line more than another quarterback would? Mike Lombardi also talks about how a QB’s ‘eye level’ can drop when he’s been sacked a lot and the way this effects his play. If all you see is rushers coming at you, you’re actually more likely to get sacked, and I can also see this being the case with Hill.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
I could blame almost all the losses on the O-line. The first play on offense yesterday, had the O-Line completely messing up and NOBODY BLOCKED MARIO WILLIAMS, and he got an easy sack. How do you account for the best player on a teams defense?
The niners have 2 first round picks next year. I hope they use them both on the O-Line.
While I will say that the first offensive play of the game yesterday was an ugly indictment of our blocking scheme, and probably our blocking personnel, Hill looked pretty bad on the play as well. It was a designed screen to Crabtree, so naturally Hill didn’t waste time with his progressions, but with Williams in his face and closing, what did he do? He pumped, which was good because it got Williams to jump and buy him some time. But then he took two steps toward Williams, never once trying to do anything but find a lane to throw the ball to Crabtree. The pump bought him the time to run the hell AWAY from Williams and make something of the play, but he ran INTO the sack. Again.
It was a bad play by everyone. The offensive line, and Hill.
That said, I won’t use a single play to judge a player in total, and I’m actually still vaguely on the fence about the Shaun Hill/Alex Smith debate for next week. My heart says Alex Smith, but my brain says, “don’t be a reactionary fool, you fool!” Smith looked good (and, even better, he made the receivers look good… I mean, Isaac Bruce actually CAUGHT a pass!), but all the same caveats that I used to make about the games Hill played against soft defenses in the second half and all that holds true here again. I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t put those same arguments against Smith after yesterday.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
hill
always looks horrible in the footwork department.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
true, and that does matter
If it takes you even a half-second longer to get to your launch point, it takes that much longer for you to get a read on the defense and that much longer to set up to throw. If all you’re doing is throwing is short underneath passes, that’s not as much of a problem…until the safeties are 10 yards off the Line of Scrimmage (as they have been for 2 games with Hill at QB). Not a coincidence.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
Hill just looks like he concedes sacks way too early, without much effort to evade the rusher/throw the ball away. You are right howtheyscored, he had a great opportunity after pump-faking Williams to run the other way and at least throw the ball out of bounds.
by randolphforpresident on Oct 26, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
The simple fact is that our offense
hasn’t put up three touchdowns in a half all season long. In fact we’ve only had one game this year where our offense ha scored three touchdowns at all, and that was against the St. Louis Rams.
In one half Alex Smith through for 206 yards. Shaun Hill has 943 yards on the season.
Since we’re not going to be able to rely on our special teams and defense to score for us every game we’ve got to start Smith and see what he can do.
actually
the offense only scored twice in the Rams game.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
You're right
Two TDs and one field goal vs one of the worst teams in the league. Makes putting Smith in as starter even more imperative.
nope
just 2 TDs. The defense scored 2 and special teams scored 1.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Smith's confident playing
That’s what impressed me. He played well but he was always in control. I never saw that with Smith before. It’s not that the O line suddenly got better, but whether it was a change in Raye’s playcalling or what, Smith suddenly took an offense that had gained one yard through most of the first half and suddenly was good with Smith taking the snaps.
And the running game never did get going, not that you grind it out when you’re down three TDs. And it’s hard to be a bell cow when there’s someone with his hands around your ankles when the ball’s snapped, but I’m really starting to worry that maybe Frank may have also lost a step.
Arizona beat the Giants last night and are now in the lead in the division. It looks like they’ve got a month of pretty easy games, which means that the division isn’t ours for the taking. I’m not saying that the season’s down the toilet but I don’t think that the team can just remain in a holding pattern with Shaun Hill a placeholder for the Niners’ Quarterback X of the Future. The Niners need to know if Smith is done or redeemed because next year they’ve got some holes to fill in the draft.
by Bob In Beaverton on Oct 26, 2009 6:15 AM PDT reply actions
Totally agree
Did you notice that Smith was smiling after he came in and completed his first pass? He looked like he’d been waiting for this moment since the Summer — he is confident (and healthy) in the pocket for the first time in his career.
During camp, my father and I were having a discussion about the QB competition, and he thought that Smith was the better QB, but wouldn’t start until mid-season — that he needed a little bit of extra time to prepare.
Does anybody else realize that Alex Smith is only 25 years old? He’s the same age as Brady Quinn and Kevin Kolb — except that he’s missed two season due to injury. The ‘Bust’ label was applied prematurely.
We were all saying
That it would be best for Smith to start mid-season if he didn’t earn the starting honors. Here it is
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
What if that is the plan all along. hmmm
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 26, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe, but Smith was pretty mediocre in the preseason ...
… so it would have taken some pretty impressive foresight to imagine he could step in and play this well.
I agree with the Niners having to see exactly what Smith has. He’s healthy, he’s had time to learn the game. It’s now or never for him.
I don’t agree with Frank being done. He is coming off an injury, and a bye week. He’s going to be slow… and if you look at Coffee, and whoever else was running in place of Gore, they haven’t done too much better. The O-Line can’t block in the passing game, and they’re not doing it in the running game either.
you are correct
man you rite – alex , lets see what he has got or draft a guy to compete with davis
Also
on the defensive side, was it my imagination or were there a lot of missed tackles, especially in the first half? I got the feeling that since early in the Falcons game that the defense seemed to be letting up. Sometimes when you see the other half of the team failing for so long you think to yourself, “What the hell?” Human nature.
by Bob In Beaverton on Oct 26, 2009 6:19 AM PDT reply actions
Clements' "tackle" on the one Slaton TD was pathetic.
It’s like he thought Slaton was Brandon Jacobs or something.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
Agreed, i don’t understand what’s with the missed tackles with Clements, i’m not even sure he wrapped up yesterday on Slaton
I like to defend Clements. I really do. He was actually pretty good last year and the contract isn’t as bad as everybody likes to say.
But man, he’s making it hard this year. Now he’s missing wrap tackles and getting burned by tight ends??? What the hell man. What’s next?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
There were a truckload of missed tackles yesterday. I was trying to move all my furniture, but I couldn’t because the moving truck was too full of all the missed tackles.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
First or second TD?
I thought the refs missed a holding call on the second TD against BamBam…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
absolutely
Willis got tackled on that play
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
my favorite part of that play...
was the fact that the announcing crew made absolutely no mention of willis getting tackled despite replaying it twice. hello? mcfly???
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Oct 26, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I was dumbfounded by that as well
how do they not see that?
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
they were...
mesmerized by the beauty of the play design…you know, as if it would have worked had willis not been tackled…generally, if i’m reffing a game and i see willis go to the ground after being blocked, i’m going to assume there had to have been an infraction by the blocker every time
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Oct 26, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
oooh that play made me angry
I was just watching it on the highlights and I was looking for a flag.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
And
I didn’t see any posts yesterday by london niner. Did he go to the Pats-Bucs game?
by Bob In Beaverton on Oct 26, 2009 6:20 AM PDT reply actions
I believe so
I think he mentioned somewhere that he was going to the game.
by David Fucillo on Oct 26, 2009 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep - I did
Hi Bob – I’m quite touched that my absence on this site would be noticed! And thanks Fooch. I really enjoyed the game, even though it was one-sided. It was nice to see Tom Brady play live and in the flesh – there was a quote in the matchday magazine from our own Joe Montana saying that when Tom has finished playing, he will go down as the greatest QB of all time. High praise indeed coming from Joe Cool! I also didn’t realise until yesterday that Brady was inside Candlestick Park when Dwight Clarke caught The Catch. I knew Tom was a Niner fan growing up, but didn’t realise he was there. What might have been if he’d been drafted to play at his boyhood team!
Beyond that, I was pleased that Wembley Stadium and London presented a good image to the world. The last thing you want is for your city to get an opportunity like this to showcase itself, and to mess up. But everyone agreed that the stadium is beautiful, almost 90,000 people showed up for the third year running, and the players felt the pitch/field performed well, and didn’t cut up or anything. It didn’t even rain!
Also, because I was in the VIP area through my work, I bumped into John York, and had a little chat with him.
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
We can only hope
We get Brady on the retirement circuit ala Brett Favruh…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
I've got to be honest ...
… I just made a bunch of small talk. It’s kind of weird when you meet someone in that sort of setting to ask anything pertinent. I just said I was a massive fan, and I loved what Coach Singletary was trying to achieve. I said I bet he was glad Crabtree was back in the fold (what is he seriously going to say to that – no?!!) and I asked if he was enjoying London. He said he was pleased to be there and was missing a Niners game for the first time in 11 years, but didn’t mind as he was pleased to be part of the NFL’s expansion committee. That was pretty much it. He gave me a Niners lapel badge, which was nice of him and pretty cool. I thanked him, said I wouldn’t hold him up, he said I wasn’t holding him up at all, and we shook hands and parted.
Nothing that Fooch would want to put on the front page!
Oh, he also said “My son is doing a great job”. Again, he was hardly likely to say anything else. I said with Scott Mc, Jed and Coach Sing, the franchise had three young-ish guys who could achieve great things together. He nodded benignly. I thought he was a nice man, and it didn’t feel like the sort of social situation to ask something like: “Say, why have the Niners been garbage for the last decade or so, John?”
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
by LondonNiner on Oct 26, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep - shoulda, coulda
I also should have asked him whether the Niners would give up a home game to come to London. Robert Kraft was hilarious, said it was good for the game and all that, but added that New England were not about to do it. Happy to travel to London instead of Tampa, but a home game? No way! I would have liked to have asked York that.
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
Well I think it's a great idea for a team to do it
Expands the fan base, brings in extra revenue. Even if it goes up to 4 games abroad a year like they’re talking that means each team only has to do it once every 4 years. I think that’s a reasonable sacrifice to travel overseas once every four years.
Of course if they put a team in London like they’re talking about that’s an entirely different story.
I think you're right. They are trying to get a team over there
would not be surprised if there was expansion in a couple years; one team going to LA and the other to London
I think there should have been a poll taken at the game to see which team has the most fans cheering for THEM.
This is what a home game is, fans giving you an edge. Frankly if it’s a good team vs a horrible team, a very good team could possibly afford losing one home game. This is what happened with NE vs TB, but is it fair to London to not bring a heavily sought after matchup? Is it fair to the US to not have the game in the states. This is difficult, it’s not that I don’t like it I just think it’s unfair for a team to lose revenue for one week and the fans to not get one home game out of the year. I bet the players enjoyed London though!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
But how could you possibly schedule that? It would have to be a divisional game, I guess, but even then…
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
It's an interesting debate
I looked on the eve of the game at the SB Nation blogs for the Pats and the Bucs. Weirdly, given it was their home game that they were giving up, there wasn’t a lot of chat about it on the Bucs site, but on Pats Pulpit there was a really good debate on it.
I didn’t post – I don’t want to cheat on Niners Nation ;) – but I read all the comments and safe to say most were negative about it. I totally understand that. I get why, if you’re in the US, you might not care how global the game gets.
I also don’t know how I feel about a London franchise. I love the 49ers. I fell in love with the 40ers in 1988 when they had the best quarterback in the history of the game, the best wide receiver, the best DB and one of the best RBs, plus a big old FB who I fell in love with when he crashed over for TDs in short yardage situations and then spoke to the camera in his funny accent. Oh, and the best coach ever. And all of that in the coolest city in the States. I am going to forget all that and support the London Jaguars when they relocate from Jax? No.
I saw just about every NFL team represented at Wembley yesterday. Everyone would tell you the same story that I tell here about the Niners. They would not stop supporting the Cowboys, the Giants, whatever, to support London.
But it is cool to get a game each year, cooler to get two, even cooler if they get it to four. It’s like our Superbowl – imagine if the Superbowl was in the Bay Area every year but the Niners were never in it. You’d go, right? You’d love it, but that’s different to if a new team pitched up in the Bay Area and expected your support. It’s a weird thing to get your head around.
To answer your question, riot#42, there were more cheers for the Bucs, because all the neutrals cheered them and adopted them as the home team. But the Pats had a lot of cheers too because they are one of the best loved teams here. Don’t ask me why – maybe because they have “England” in their name! Although No 12 might have something to do with it, judging by the number of Brady jerseys I saw.
Still, the one other thing I’d say is that regardless of the politics, the NFL here put on a heck of a show, and I’m pleased London was able to do that, and prove what a hardcore support there is here for the sport.
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
Nope.
The only way I’d want the Niners going to London is if it becomes a 17 game season and every team has one game somewhere else in the world. Not one of our home games, coming from a season ticket holder.
Which is what the English Premier League (soccer) tried to do ...
… with what they called the 39th game. Exactly the same theory as the 17th game.
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
I could go with that
Eliminate one of the pre-season games and turn it into a regular season game that’s played outside the U.S.
Smith has an arm live enough to keep defenses honest
And that’s why I think Sing will (rightly) name him the starter for this week’s game.
The problem with Hill is that anything over 20 yards is a floater and unlikely to be caught. With Smith, his passes have a lot of zip on them and if you put 8 men in the box he can make you pay 20 or 30 yards downfield.
I think that will open up the running game vs. Indy. Not being overly-optimistic, but the Colts are 21st in the league vs. the run and they’re blowing teams out (i.e. teams are in a pass-oriented offense to play catch-up w/ them).
Let’s go to a base 3WR/1RB/1TE package and let it loose. Crabtree and Morgan as every-down WRs, with the 3rd WR being Bruce/Jones OR split out VD and bring Walker in.
In addition, a spread-out offense described above plays to Gore’s strengths — power backs excel when they get one-on-one engagements with defenders.
Next Week
Not being overly-optimistic, but the Colts are 21st in the league vs. the run and they’re blowing teams out (i.e. teams are in a pass-oriented offense to play catch-up w/ them.
It bears noting that Bob Sanders is back. I’m not holding my breath—that Colts offense is ridiculous. If Owen Daniels burned us this week, Dallas Clark is liable to go nuclear next week.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
Yes -- Bob Sanders is back
But if he’s playing the run, doesn’t that mean there’s 8 men in the box??? And the Colts Secondary is considered suspect — especially w/ Marlin Jackson out with a knee injury (again) and the nickel back (jennings) nursing a calf injury.
They seem to lack depth in the secondary, so if you spread them out you could find success.
Yep, the one thing i’m worried about is Dallas Clark, and just based off what happened this last week versus Owen Daniels, let’s just hope there’s better coverage on the TE this week. Plus, i’m always concerned about the O-line holding up against a decent pass rush with Freeney.
D-Clark and The Disease
As noted above, Dallas Clark frightens me. As for Freeney, hopefully they’ll get VD to give Staley some help with him, that guy is relentless. Also, I think this would be the game to run some draws to Freeney’s side, since there’s not a down in the game when Freeney isn’t thinking “sack him sack him sack him sack him sack him sack him.”
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
Well, if they keep VD in to block, then there’s a problem, it’d be great if they would spread the field out and that would help out a ton. Rolling out would help with the sacks, because neither O’sullivan nor Hill were very mobile, now you have Smith who comes in and can move around in the pocket instead of just stay stagnant. So that should help with the number of sacks the defense gets against the niners
Not necessarily keep him in to block, but at least have him chip him on his way out.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I like CHiPs.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I’ve never seen it.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless it's strategy
If Clark has 7 or 8 receptions but Wayne only has two (like AJ yesterday) I’ll take it. Someone’s going to catch all those balls Manning throws so it might as well be the TE.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Yup
If the TE is catching all the balls that means the number 1 and 2 (and sometimes 3) guy is being covered. If we can get a decent pass rush (unlikely vs the Colts) we should be able to do well.
We held one of the best receivers in the game to 62 yards yesterday—that’s something to be proud of. He was covered well enough that they had to keep going to Daniels. Our Defense just needs to get better at covering that third option.
Clark is either #1 or #2 in the Colts' passing offense
We are not going to have a pass rush.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 26, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I Agree
Never was a fan of that arm strength talk. Until I watch the two QBs and you can really tell. I wrote yesterday that could the reason Alex Smith fail was because of not having weapons was the reason he failed. He showed me something that I was shocked to believe. He threw to the TE. Should he start, not sure but if our line is hurt he should definitely be in the lineup for a change of pace.
Revenge is a dish best served in the playoffs!
Here's the 49er's QB calculus
Alex Smith + Maturuty + Weapons = success
Alex Smith – Maturity – Weapons = failure
Thats most teams formula
I hate to say I was right but I was right. only 1 in 4 9er fans were supportive of Smith and now its closer to 1 in 9. But hey, maybe thats what he needed to get that edge…. “no pressure”
Bad Run Blocking + Bad Pass Blocking = bad for the whole offense.
But, man, Smith’s passes looked crisp on those medium throws. Maybe with a week of practice he can get in sync and instead of throwing an interception, he completes those long throws down the field.
9 defenders crowding the line of scrimmage
is bad for the whole offense. A livelier arm will not only create more spaces in the passing game, but it will create more seams at the line of scrimmage that can be exploited by Gore
The Texans front 7 stuffed your runs
didn’t need 8 or 9 in the box. At least Smith knew how to exploit our weakness in the deep middle of the field.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Why do the fans
Know just what to do? It all seems so logical here on NN!
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Even if Sing...
… is on the fence about starting Smith, you better believe that Raye is going to be consistently pushing Smith on him. I’m pretty sure Smith made Raye’s job A LOT easier.
Behind Smith, but...
…has he progressed from the problems he had even when he was healthy. My knock on Alex has always been the same, he had little to no anticipation for when receivers were getting open. This led to even his good passes resulting in a wide receiver having to hold on for dear life before getting blasted.
The reason I favored Hill over Smith was that Hill DID have this anticipation, and while his passes weren’t pretty, he would hit a receiver in stride. But frankly, Hill has not shown that skill this year. I think Hill has actually regressed in both his anticipation and pocket awareness… it’s time for a change.
It was nice seeing Alex has been awareness, making multiple reads, and getting the ball out. What we will have to see is whether his anticipation has gotten better, but even if it hasn’t, he may still be better than Hill in our offense. Defenses did not respect Hill AT ALL; they just loaded the box, knowing that if Hill went deep it would be a wounded duck that a CB or S could probably get under and break up. Alex has MUCH better downfield velocity, so he can fit it into a WR before the CB or S gets to it. Hopefully this will result in less loading up the box to stop Gore.
Also, if you remember, the first game of Alex’s career was against the Colts. I think it’s fair to say that this is the first game of the REST of Alex’s career, his second chance, and it’s ironic that it is again against the Colts.
Yes, but I think Alex has matured
And great point about ‘downfield velocity’… don’t they teach that in ‘Power Football 101’? If you’re going to run the ball 30 times a game, you need a passer that will make the defense pay for stacking the box.
Essentially, that’s what we did in the 2006 season — except that we had a 22-year old quarterback and no WRs. Now, we have one of the best 3 TEs in the league, a probable future superstar WR (based on his play yesterday, he’s ‘special’), a couple of solid starters (Morgan and Bruce), and a much more mature quarterback.
Let’s roll!
Hill vs Smith
But Hill cannot sling the ball and Hill cannot throw down field because he doesn’t have an gun on him.He just can’t.Hill is a short passer.Alex can sling the ball and throw down field and with the receivers we have and using Smith in the shotgun more.We can use our receivers to our advantage.Make the change and keep Smith starting for the rest of the season.Smith could still be our QB of the future if he gets a chance and proves he can win. We won’t have to get a Qb in next years draft with our 2 first rounders. If Smith a bust again from here on out then he can be released and we can look for a new QB.Face it,Hill is not our QB of the future.
by Smallville49er on Oct 26, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Floaters...
Wounded ducks. I could make some of those throws and I’m pushing 40…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Winning
Coach Sing is doing whatever it takes to win and if that fumble never happened. But like they said that “if if was a fifth”. Defense is playing better than it did last year. I was reading this article where Nate Clements is moved to Strong safety and we could get another corner. I am all for anything that will help us win games. We are undefeated in our division and I know we can win the division.
Revenge is a dish best served in the playoffs!
I was there...
I was so excited when they put Smith in and it turned things around. I agree with a prior post that said the O-line didn’t get better all of a sudden. The only thing that changed (besides maybe the play calling) was Smith. And he “got ’er done” – or nearly so anyway.
I was a little confused by some of the play calling on the final drive. I thought maybe they would just try to get into FG range and push the game to OT. Given the momentum, they probably could have pulled out a ugly win. (and if my Uncle had boobs he’d be my Aunt)….
I have a bunch of pics from the game, and a bunch from the sidelines during pre-game. How do I post them or do I send them to Fooch?
RE: The last drive
How are you going to get a holding call on a “pooch punt?” They only have 30 yards to run. Why wouldn’t you just let them try to down it or whatever? How many yards could that change things? 5, 10 tops? I was pissed…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Yep, and it was on our new signee
We miss Ulbrich. That penalty cost us 6 penalty yards but I think 9 game yards. The ball bounced at the 12 (and was penalized half the distance from there) but if I recall it bounced backward to around the 15. That could’ve helped.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
you ought to
upload them to a phote-sharing site like flickr or photobucket and then make a fanshot with a link to the album
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Do it as a Fan Post, StereoPete ...
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
It’s always hard to say why a QB does so well when he comes in off the bench. It happens a little more often than we think. I’ve seen it happen before, where a QB gets bench, or gets hurt, and the backup goes off like Smith did.
The reasons could be many. The Texans were up by 21 points, and came out at half time a little bit laid back. The Defense didn’t rush as much as they did in the first half, to try and prevent the big play. And last, they spent all week preparing for Shaun Hill’s short dump off passes, and a guy who is pretty immobile in the pocket.
Now, what I saw personally from Smith, was a guy who woke up his offense. It was kinda like Shaun Hill at the end of last season. It seemed like everyone on the offense gave up 2 weeks ago, and yesterday. Smith provided a spark, and even when the defense was playing back trying to prevent long passes, Smith still found guys open. When given TIME, he was able to make these amazing, accurate, tight throws that I actually NEVER saw from him before. This is what he was originally supposed to do when he was drafted. And, if it wasn’t for that interception being thrown a little low, or if he put a little more air on the ball, he may have completed that pass for a TD.
Nonetheless, Smith at the very least earned himself another start. My friend was saying that he should get the start, and Singletary should take this opportunity to light a fire under Hill’s ass, and hopefully bring out that intensity that he had last year, and early this year.
I didn't see the game yesterday ...
… as I was at the Pats-Bucs game in London. Like I said yesterday, I’m only going to miss one game this season and it was a good excuse – even though my team will always be SF, when the NFL is in your town, you have to go, right?!
So therefore I was following the second-half comeback on the big screens at Wembley which displayed the latest scores, as my 3G web connection on my phone was failing me in and amongst that many people and that much pressure on the networks (does that happen in the US – that you can’t get online on your mobile in a packed sports stadium – it sucks ..)
But without having seen anything, I still feel a measure of sympathy, and respect, for Hill. It’s not so long ago that Singletary’s ethos of a QB who makes no mistakes, manages the game, and does not turnover, led us to 2-0 and 3-1. I know Hill has had turnovers since, but how much was that due to the O-Line leaving him hopelessly vulnerable? I am speaking from a position of ignorance here, since I didn’t see the game and I am therefore not qualified to comment, but I just think Hill might still have something to offer in safely negotiating through this season, ahead of drafting a QB next year, and/or giving No 7 his shot (and agree we should not throw that young man to the wolves – that’s the mistake we made with Alex …)
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
Now that I know LondonNiners is really in the UK
I can’t help reading his posts in my sh!tty fake British accent… Thanks a lot! Hope I’ve left you all with this infectious tic…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Hey, language
Watch it with the bomb drops.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
That was an exclamation point
Did you subliminally submit an ‘i’ in there? ;-)
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
I did! Looks like you get a pass this time. Although, if you ask me, that’s still cutting it awfully close. Like using a dollar sign for the S. But I’m glad you’re conscious of the rule, so it’s all good.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Honoring the site decorum
and walking a fine line.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Ha ha!
I love it that you do that, dartdart. I’m kind of weirded out by the fact that before I went to the Wembley game, you were not entirely convinced I was in the UK. That would be a weird thing to make up, like when I pretended to be a woman for a while on that website … oh, hang on, I didn’t just write that publicly did I ;)
Keep reading my posts in your dodgy accent – I love it!
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
by LondonNiner on Oct 26, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Bloke!
Limey! ;-) I’ll have to read up on the implications of Dodgy. LondonNiner could have meant anything…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Seriously, the word dodgy never made it across the pond?
I genuinely didn’t know that. Let me know if you ever want any London slang to impress your mates – could prove to be a cool party piece. Love from Limey Niner ;)
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
Bollocks!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Be careful!
That’s swearing – depends on whether Fooch knows it’s a swear word, although it made me laugh out loud!
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
Oh WTF
We can’t even swear in the Queen’s English?!?!?!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Don’t be a fanny. Swearing is fun
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 26, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
hard to use your phone anywhere crowded – I could barely get mine to work when I went to the Niners-Seahawks game. Of course that might just be because AT&Ts service is total garbage.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
I remember thinking...
…when it was 21-0, that if Alex brings us back, he deserves to start next week. Incidentally, props to Jimmy Raye for using formations and routes he knew Smith and Crabby would find familiar. It’s no coincidence that Crabby’s first catch was a bubble screen, and that Smith was passing from a shotgun spread some of the time.
I was really surprised that Raye went with the Spread formation…. Doesn’t it make sense to use an offensive package that your QB was SO successful with in college?
I never saw Nolan play to Smith’s strengths. It was like, he didn’t mind if Smith failed, cuz he wanted to be the man in the suit, and be the face of the franchise.
Something else...
…that impressed me. Smith was making throws before his receivers turned, something he used to have trouble doing. I think his work with Crabby over the long holiday weekend paid dividends in that regard.
The spread
four wide outs, empty backfield. I was getting fired up real fast. Also, I have to say that must be part of the success of the second half. We’ve been playing those cards close to the vest. Houston must have wondered what team they were out there playing. Also, also, do you think Crabz and Smith were in sync because they had some more time together? I do…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Alex Smith
I was at the game yesterday in Houston cause I’m a 49er fan from Texas.I have said this from the beginning of the season that I believed Alex Smith should have and gotten another chance.Smith has a better arm then Hill.Smith ,can sling the ball way more than Hill and Smith can move as well.Hill just doesn’t have an arm.Sure, he’s a good “manager” and it wasn’t totally his fault.But then again,Hill is a rely – on – run type of QB and we ARE NOT gonna be able to run the ball ALL THE TIME.We are gonna need to throw the ball and a lot.Now with Crabtree in there and WOW,Crabtree would get open a lot and Crabtree would catch everything going his way.We are gonna need the QB that can sling the ball and throw it down hill.Hill obvioulsy cannot do that.Alex can.Maybe Nate can.I’ would go with Alex Smith from ehre on out and save our season.Glad to see Josh Morgan come alive as well.
Alex Smith weapons
Alex Smith also has weapons NOW in Davis (man GLAD Davis was a monster and is living up to his 1st round pick potential),Crabtree,Gore,Morgan.
Start Smith
Niners showed some guts getting back into that game. I was there and could barely bring myself to watch the 4th down play that ended the game.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Peyton Manning
Look at the way they use Peyton Manning.He throws from the shotgun a lot.Why can’t we use Smith in this way.That’s the type of offense he ran in college anyways.
Did I say that?
Did I say Smith equaled to Peyton Manning?No i didn’t.All I said was Peyton Manning is at shotgun a lot.Given that our offensive line doesn’t give you too much time because Hill can’t move and Hill holds on to the ball tooo long which results in sacks and a 29 pass offense.Smith can operate more from the shotgun and will get 2 more seconds at most from the shotgun like Manning does.I never equaled him to Peyton Manning.What are you reading bro?
by Smallville49er on Oct 26, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
You said
“Why can’t we use Smith in this way.” My response was because Smith is not equal to Manning. We may try to use Smith that way, but don’t expect the results to be the same. That’s what I meant.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
QB Protection
Hi guys, been reading your posts for awhile. Thought I’d finally jump in.
I’ve been a huge Niners fan since that Monday Night Football game back in November 1987 against the Chicago Bears when another bust/backup QB (Young) came in and went 9 of 19 for 193 yards and threw 3 TD’s to the G.O.A.T. The last few years have been painful. Please stop the pain Alex/Mike/Jed!!!
I was really excited to see Alex back on the field, and playing well to boot. I’ve been a fan of his for awhile. Had a few classes with him, and watched him play a lot in college.
I think he’s got the skill set, that he’s comfortable in this offense, and with this confidence boosting performance, that he can help lead us to a winning season…hopefully the playoffs. My only concern is his health. He got away from the pressure this week, but this season our O-line hasn’t been playing much better than when he got hurt in 2007. The Colts secondary may be suspect, but Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis are not. Can he take a big hit? I don’t know. I really want to see him AND the Niners succeed. What are your thoughts guys?
I agree
I agree with 100%.Now with a game changing receiver in Crabtree which is gonna open up the field for Gore and Davis.Alex has weapons.His confidence should surely boost up with ALL these weapons on the field.
by Smallville49er on Oct 26, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
POTENTIAL game changing reciever
I mean he had a nice game for his first NFL appearance ever, but I would like to seem him actually CHANGE a couple games before we label him a game-changer.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I do not care how well he played
I have no faith in Alex Smith. I voted for Davis.
There is
Only one way to find out if Smith is going to give you confidence: He has to play!
With that logic
I have to agree with you! :-) MY main concern is Niners wins so I suppose whoever gives the Ws is my guy.
I think the most important thing, whomever they chose, is that they're darn sure he's the one they want
What can’t happen is that Smith comes in and gets yanked after a game, or a game and half. Bringing Smith in, whatever Singletary might say about ‘best chance to win now’, is about seeing whether this was a mirage, or whether Smith really is a decent starting QB. So far, most of the evidence would point to no, but they clearly, on some level, still believe in his potential.
If you bring Hill back, it’s saying to the team ‘we believe in our players, we’re standing behind them, even if they have a bad game’. This done, you can’t just bench him at half time next game. This is bad for preparation, bad for continuation and WR chemistry, and bad for the team as a whole.
I think what I’m saying is – make a decision and stick with it.
As for Nate Davis? He’s currently ill (didn’t even travel to Texas!) and hasn’t thrown with the first team offence all year. Whatever talent he has, he’s not in the conversation until next year.
But Hill not only had two HORRIBLE games against the Falcons and Texans, but he just hasn’t looked impressive save for a few 4th Qtr drives all year.
by Badly Browned on Oct 26, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't know who the best player to put in is
I’m really not any sort of QB evaluating expert. My main point was that they should make a decision, quickly, and stick with it.
Any sort of confusion is bad.
not necessarily
if you can confuse the opposing coaches more than you confuse your own team… it could be an advantage.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Here's the thought process for opposing teams
If we’re facing Smith, we need to prepare for their passing game and their run off the pass. If we’re facing Hill, we need to prepare for… letting our front 7 stop the run. Meh, just throw an extra linebacker in there just in case.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 26, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Your right
At the beginning of the season the QB competition was a close one.It could have gone either way Smith or Hill.It went to Hill.Hill hasn’t really looked all that good the 6 games played.Smith has practiced with Crabtree before and I believe Crabtree might have more confidence in Smith rather than in Hill.Crabtree changes everything in SF because he’s a play maker.We saw how Smith hooked up with Davis in the end zone.Stick with Smith for the rest of the year.
by Smallville49er on Oct 26, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Well...
I wouldn’t mind if they tried something different and it didn’t work out and then they changed back. No need to ride a dead horse all the way around the track. Thank God we didn’t give JTO the keys for the remainder of last season. As soon as it’s a total bust, they could try Davis… BL: We don’t have the franchise QB in Smith or Hill (reference the wide open Gore and open running field ahead in 3Q and the ball sails over Gore’s head and arms). But, I really do like Smith.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Who said Texas was Cowboy country?
Just like to say that I attended the 49er – Texan game cause I’m a 49er -Texan. There was a lot of 49er fans.I guess Texas has a lot of 49er fans.
Houston Texans
Hey guys we almost came back and beat a Texan team that is no push over.They have a good offense in Shaub,Slayton,Daniles, and arguably the best WR in football in Andre Johnson.Yet we came back on them and almost won the game being down 21-0.But it’s not like the Texans are push overs.They beat a good Bengal team last week and they are now at 4-3 I believe.Some of the games the Texans lost should have been wins for them.So we played an up and coming team and showed we can play with them and should have beaten them,in the second half once Hill was removed.
Still drinking the Kool-Aid
I think it helps Alex Smith’s case that the Niners have viable targets for him to pass to. He’s got a way better arm then Hill, and more mobility. Gary Radnich said that if Hill is under any kind of pressure, he’s going down. Alex Smith can at least attempt to avoid the pass rush and make something out of nothing. Start Smith next week!
I don't care who you put back there!
If the O-line plays like they did, we are finished for the season, easy. I know Alex Smith can make the plays. He actually looked poised(is that how you spell that). Lets face it the O-line was horrid!!!! Our Defense can only hold a potent offense for so long if our offense screws the pooch so much. I’m also so amazed on how much adding crabs changed our team dynamically ….crazy!!!! The raisin offensive coordinator needs to get his crap together . I will say this it was great game. Alex showed up that day lets hope the O-line shows up for the rest of team next week. I don’t care who you put back there the O-line needs to get there act together.
I supported Hill at the start of the year
Based on what he was able to accomplish last year, I thought he deserved the starter’s position. Smith didn’t take the position away from him this Spring, but Hill gave it up with his play this year. The fact is, with the same guys that Hill had to work with, Smith led the offense to 3 offensive touchdowns in a half. That is more TDs than the offense has scored in a game all season. He now deserves the chance to start again next week.
I think Sing has handled the QB position well, but I think they may have preached the “don’t make mistakes” mantra so much that it contributed to Hill’s inability to look downfield to make plays.
For what it’s worth, I stopped watching the game yesterday in the second quarter and got started on chores, but when I heard on the radio that Alex Smith was in, I stopped what I was doing to watch the rest of the game.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
I don't think there's any controversy. Smith should be the starter.
Hill has pretty much looked like crap for 2 games. Smith put up better yards in the second half than Hill has over his last 2 games.
Smith’s mobility will help the subpar offensive line, too, compared to HIll just covering up and taking sacks.
I also like that Smith and Crabtree seem to have gelled a bit, whether it was from Smith throwing the rock while Crabtree was working out earlier during the season or what, but it’s nice to see him instead of trying to throw to Brandon effing Lloyd.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I WAS RIGHT. I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Go with Smith
I think we can all agree on something: Hill IS NOT the QB of the future for this team, Smith or Davis might not be either, but the offense looked the best it had all season long, and that was without Gore going off, ( being down 21-0 lends to that)
Next week is a big game, but it isn’t the most important. We needed to take the Huston and Indy game to fix our offensive problems for the rest of the season.
Give Smith the nodn, while we take the time to develop Davis. If the offense gels, then we can go with the 25 year old Smith, use the two first rounders for a ball hawking safety and o line, or heck go with two o-line picks.
I believe smith was never in a position to succeed, a new offensive coordinator every year, injures, and until recently, didn’t have much talent around him.
At the start of the year, I thought 10-6, 9-7 would be possible. Good, but perhaps not playoffs or deep into playoffs good, they are sooo close to turning the corner, and I hope the two 1st rounders can put us there.
And it was also nice that the defense showed up in the second half, granted Owens had a monster day, and A. Johnson left the game but it was still a good effort.
To you Mr. Crabtree: welcome to the party, all is almost forgiven.
One other thing to think about is that Raye's offense
is similar to Norv’s. That was the year Alex had his best success. He certainly seemed comfortable back there, and there is no doubt that Crabs and Morgan are an upgrade at WR.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
It is?
I don’t recall Norv’s offense featuring a lot of Dive Left/Dive Right/Dive Left/Punt schemes.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Norv's run calls looked better because they were blocked better
That was Jonas’ one solid season and Larry Allen was mauling people. If Gore’s dive plays gain 5 yards and occassionally spring one beyond ten yards, the OC looks smarter.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
indeed
That’s the underrated factor here. That team ran left 70% of the time, and most of those yards were gained behind behind Larry Allen and Jonas Jennings. While having a good OC and a good line coach make a difference, there’s no substitute for talent.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
How does the Chargers look?
It’s not great, better OL, Better Qb, Better TE, so why is it looking as bad as ours? More yards less wins
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
Difference between being a HC and coordinator
Just ask Nolan. Or Greg Williams. Or Todd Haley. And Norv if he’s willing to be honest. I haven’t followed the Chargers’ problems too closely but that advantage over us in yards have not equated to wins in part due to their poor play on defense, including zero pass rush, and that LT is old. If the holes are there and the back is too slow to get through them and run through and beyond tackles the way he used to, it won’t look good. I also think their O-line has had some injuries.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
One thing to note...
Alex performed very well yesterday, but how much of that can be attributed to Houston having no game plan for him?
Lots of good points Fooch and company. Pretty overwhelming evidence that this team needs to make a switch. I like his mobility and he’s got a better arm- but we all know why he’s so unplayable…bad bad decision making. I need to see him improve in that regard before I can really get behind the guy.
One thing I do like, is that he stayed with Crab and Gore and worked through the bye to teach Crab the offense. it’s a good sign of maturity that he’s working as a mentor. the best teachers are the best students!
Also, how much of Smith’s success is due to poor playcalling in the first half?
Act all day, dance all night. Let's get it poppin'... I'm in Bombay, trick!
None.
Some of Hill’s failure might be due to poor playcalling in the first half, but none of Alex’s success in the second half is due to poor playcalling in the first half.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Oct 26, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think
As Tony Romo takes risks that would make an offensive cordinator have a heart attack.Smith has to be given the chance to make plays and take risks at times.Like Romo when he takes risks and they fail they want to crucify him,.But when he takes risk and he succeeds,they praise him.Smith has to be given the chance to move and scramble around since our offense line can’t block for some reason.
by Smallville49er on Oct 26, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Start Hill
Hill has been unspectacular, but you don’t bench a QB for six quarters of bad play when he’s been winning games.
Bench Hill, start Smith, give the Colts a couple days for gameplan for him, and Alex Smith looks like, well… Alex Smith.
Don’t fall for it.
Act all day, dance all night. Let's get it poppin'... I'm in Bombay, trick!
Let's face it we don't have a good enough defense to start Hill
If our defense wasn’t giving up 20-30 pts a game. I’d say Hill is the safe bet. We are 3-3 looking probably at 3-4 after we face Manning. We need a lifeline NOW and Hill is not the answer.
But don’t underestimate the effect of having a strong running game on.
Act all day, dance all night. Let's get it poppin'... I'm in Bombay, trick!
and Hill helps the running game...
how, exactly?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Hill won 3 games and has now lost 3 games.
Remember, Hill had two opportunities in the 4th quarter of the Vikings game to put that game out of reach, but he couldn’t do it. And of course, the 10 points in the Falcons game because Atlanta played all 11 defenders within 7 yards of the LOS all game.
If we were 5-1 you keep Hill. Maybe even 4-3, depending on how much you can pin the losses on the defense. But not when we’re 3-3 and Alex has played this well. Time to put Alex in and see if he’s improved now that he’s healthy. If we’re going to lose to Indy anyway, give him the shot.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Oct 26, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, he had many opportunities to hand the ball off to Glen Coffee behind a terrible line. I can’t believe Shaun Hill didn’t do more with those opportunities.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I think in the long run Smith is the way to go
but let’s not expect him to come in every week and throw 3 TDs and 200 yards in every half he plays.
The Niners need to know if Smith is done or redeemed because next year they’ve got some holes to fill in the draft.
That’s the most important thing. We all know Hill is/was a placeholder – he might give you a decent chance to win but he’s not the long-term answer at QB. Smith might not be either, but there’s a chance that he is. At this point with the way things have been going you might as well give him another shot. The power-running game/60% run/physical with an F thing just isn’t working. Smith allows the team to diversify the offense a little bit more, and hopefully that will make them better.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Yeah we need to know what we have before the draft
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 26, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Two Summer Eyes
Smith played good enough to get him back in there and find out if we cut him loose this off-season or not.
Hill is a game manager with weak arm strength and IMHO is shutting down Gore because he’s not keeping defenses honest.
We need to Bench Chilo.
Crabtrizzle is the bomb-diggity. I was amazed at the hands, and crisp routes. If we get a QB to complement him, Niners are going to be dirty.
Long row to hoe for any QB next week, so I hope Smith gets at least two weeks at the helm.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
unless Smith COMPLETELY bombs
he’ll be back next season. We wouldn’t save much cap space at all by cutting him, and he’d still be an ok back up at least.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
In the end
I don’t think Shaun Hill’s play deserves benching, I really think he’s doing the best he can with what he has. However, I think Alex Smith’s mobility might be a little better suited to our poor O-line blocking and therefore he might be the better qb for the system right now.
What’s kind of interesting is I’m leaning towards feeling like Hill is a better starting QB right now while Smith is much better suited to playing catchup in an offense that passes the ball right now.
Now, as fans, it might be easy to anticipate falling behind the Colts and inevitably playing catch up, but I know the coaches don’t really look at it that way, especially not Mike Singletary. Although I doubt it would happen or really necessarily think it would be a good idea I would be fine with having Hill start but then either being replaced or doing some sort of rotation with Smith to mix things up. I know that it’s hard on the offense to have to deal with two separate signal callers but it’s just as hard on the defense and wouldn’t allow the Colts to fully gameplan for either QB. With that, I’m going to go ahead and vote for start Hill, but with a huge caveat.
also, I just noticed
55 of you need to justify why you voted for Davis…
by foosball4949 on Oct 26, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
HE'S A WINNER!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree that Hill didn’t really play his way out of the spot, he certainly wasn’t as bad as some other QBs, however Smith certainly played his way INTO the spot, and deserves at least a few starts because of that.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
the qbs
Alex Smith deserves the start. Let’s see if he has learned something. Maybe yesterday was a fluke, maybe not.
Re: Nate Davis.
I’m intrigued by his potential but there is no way he should see the field as long as the playoffs are a possibility. If the playoffs aren’t going to happen then put him in and see what he has. I keep hearing the 49ers on the list of teams looking for a qb in the draft. We may already have one on the roster, especially since no college qb has risen to the top.
Not sold on Bradford. I see limited arm strength with no mobility.
Credit where it's due ... and concerns
Smith had, in my opinion, the best game of his career … by far. As I wrote elsewhere, he only had a higher YPA in one game, but that was a game in which he did not look particularly good, completing only 50% of his passes and looking tentative and off.
Smith’s performance yesterday was, in my opinion, so good that there is no reasonable way to keep him off the field for at least the next three games: I don’t expect a ton from him against Indy, but the Tenn and Chicago games (both of which are now very close to must-wins) will be a great opportunity for us to see if this is not a fluke.
I’m not swayed by the “relaxed defense” argument – not after that first drive. Especially not after that second drive. This is also – as I wrote elsewhre – because when you play with a lead the one thing you try not to give up is strikes down the field. Two under-four minute drives are exactly what the defense would have been trying NOT to give up, and that’s what SMith did.
Nor am I swayed by the “they didn’t game plan against him,” argument. Smith hasn’t done enough on the field to warrant any sort of special treatment. If anything, his success shows us how easy it is to game-plan against Hill, because people don’t fear him beating him deep.
We’re a team with good receivers, all of a sudden (Morgan, Crabtree, and VD) … and we need a QB who can get them the ball in dangerous positions. I get wanting to be a running team, but right now we’re not one. We need to have something in our offense that our opponent’s fear – and I think right now it might be our young receiving core. (Anybody else want to see Jones playing over Bruce, btw?)
That being said, a few caveats … why I’m not popping the champagne yet.
1) It was a half of football. One half. Smith has looked pretty good (although never close to this good!) for a half here and there in his career before.
2) Smith didn’t look like he had this in him during the preseason. Maybe this is the famous “he’ll be no good until he gets it” side of Smith – he needed more time. But Hill won the QB job by default in the preseason.
3) Smith hasn’t shown yet that he could deal with mental pressure. Look, if there’s ever a time when it’s mentally easy to come in and be an NFL QB, it’s when you enter in the second half down by three scores. Nobody expects to win. Nobody even expects you to do more than put together a few first downs. It’s all gravy. Smith hasn’t always handled the mental pressure aspect of being a QB in the NFL well … so we’re going to have to see if that changes.
4) Smith didn’t face a lot of blitzes. Of course, he was throwing into a lot of DBs, which is to his credit, and when he did face pressure he handled it pretty well (except for the INT, but, honestly, 4th and 10 40 seconds left, there’s no room to be a “smart” QB and throw the ball away or take a sack. He had to wing it. I don’t hold that INT against him at all). But if I were Indy, I would throw a lot of complex looks at him, mix up the blitzes, in the first half to see if you can rattle him. Smith has, in his career to date, been rattle-able. He has to prove that he isn’t, anymore, despite the fact that our o-line is still suspect.
That being said, I’m more optimistic now than I have been all season. Smith doesn’t have to be as good as he was yesterday for our offense to be a LOT more dangerous. All of a sudden sweeping both Chicago and Jacksonville doesn’t look like such an impossibility.
by Ronaldinho on Oct 26, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
A well stated analysis
And though Smith didn’t look this good in pre-season, truth is no one did other than the running game (of Coffee, Robinson and Sheets). A reminder that it is preseason and both he and Hill had limited snaps.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I don't know
about the mental pressure thing. Sure he’s had some times where he looked like he lost it, but he also has his share of comebacks, most notably the 2007 opener, where the offense had a total of like 80 yards coming into the final drive, and he led them 80 yards down the field for the game winning score.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Very well said.
Though I disagree that he’s never looked close to being this good. I still REALLY like his late performance against the Seahawks in ’06.
Yeah for sure Alex Smith gives us more options to open the offense with the deep threat. Which should give Gore more of chance to run free
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 26, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions
Neither QB is any good. Yes, Hill has no arm, but manages the game. But he is no danger for a big play. In the game yesterday, Smith still had the same accuracy issues he’s had throughout his career and he still stares down his receiver. I have no idea if either one of these guys should be at the QB position. If Smith starts, we’ll see how well he does when the defense has a full week to prepare for him. I’m not buying Alex Smith resurrecting his career…yet.
Disagree
Knowing his issues before he started the half (not going through his proper reads and staring down a receiver too long) I kept an eye on his progressions. He looked sharp with his reads and looked off DB’s pretty well. He was mobile and knew when to get rid of the ball.
Smith without question
It has the short-term benefit of a better arm and mobility for a guy that gave us 3 offensive TDs in a game for the first time this season. It has the long-term benefit of finding out if the still very young man has taken a huge step forward by maturing as both a man and a QB. If he can be a top 15 Qb in the league, there’s no need to draft one. He can be teh guy and we still get to develop Nate Davis.
As for the speculation about the Texans’ defense, we’re forgetting the flip side of that coin. Alex hasn’t practiced with the #1s since pre-season. Hadn’t played in a reg season game healthy since over two years ago. Hadn’t run a 2-min drill in how long? He had a rookie WR in his first game. His O-line had Pashos out hurt and at one point Staley out as well. Yes, he was being protected by: Sims-Bass-Heitmann-Richal-Snyder. Despite that, he led us to 3 TDs on the road. Did anyone notice how enthused our defensive players were when Alex threw that first TD? The guy gave the whole team life.
What impresses me most was Alex taking two delay of game penalties instead of using a T.O. Knowing that we were losing, he knew those T.O.s were worth more than the 5 yards and he overcame the penalty in each situation. He also had excellent rhythm with VD and Crabtree, which against any defense is to be noted.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
+1
Thought that it was smart of him take the 5 yards instead of wasting TOs and downs. Cause if he didn’t see what he wanted to see or if the play was breaking down before the snap, there is a good chance that play wouldn’t have worked anyway and they would’ve lost the down.
I agree but Alex had reps in the bye week and he worked out with Crabs more than Hill.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
With Crabtree but not with the offense
No line, no other WRs. No practicing the game plan. For a guy that hasn’t played in a reg season game in two years that’s pretty solid.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
To even have a chance at Indy
You have to start Smith and let him run the spread offense from the get-go, we all saw what happened when the offense got off to a very slow start the last 2 games and having to play catch up too early. The Colts will score at will and Manning can basically carve any team’s defense like it’s already Thanksgiving.
The spread offense has its flaws but it seems that Smith is comfortable in it, Crabtree excelled in it during his time at TT, Davis just shown he can run the same route 3 straight times into the endzone for TDs and it is also a good way to prevent Freeney and the gang to get to the QB that fast. You also don’t necessarily sacrifice the running game during the spread offense since you can still run dives, draws or maybe spread Gore out too as he can catch decently for a back.
Win the inning.
Agreed, when you have a QB that’s mobile against a D-line that can get to the QB fast, that is very helpful, and you know that the Colts are gonna come early and hard (TWSS). The niners have to keep pace with the Colts offensively and some how shut them down with stopping Manning and getting to the QB.
Smith was known in college for the spread, and that’s what he excels in, and that is one of the reasons why he did so well on Sunday, it’s due to the fact he is a spread type QB with a good arm, plus it helps he can roll out and run out of the pocket away from the pressure. He makes good passes while running which is also pretty darn important, and has the ability to take off on his own. So yea the spread has it’s drawbacks, but if he’s comfortable with it, then go with it
I don't know about starting with the spread offense
I would agree to the extent that we can’t spot Indy (or any team for that manner) 14 points while we establish the run. Fundamentally, the philosophy on offense is going to have to change. Raye and Co. have designed this team to be focused on the run, but when you have this kind of offensive line and no pass attack you have failure.
My only concern is that if we unleash Smith and he has a very bad game against Indy and then we are back to Hill and a 7-9 season.
It doesn't have to be predominantly spread in the beginning
Maybe do it on a few plays during the first series, see what the Colts D are doing and adjust from there. I bet they will dare Smith to beat them and try to contain Gore so spreading out 3 WRs and Davis will neutralize that.
Hopefully, Smith was able to not only gain confidence from yesterday but is also playing while realizing this might be his last chance to stay in the NFL, he hasn’t done anything in nearly 2 years and that Hill is right behind him should he slip up.
Nobody here or any realistic 49er fan is expecting a win at Indy but unless Smith goes Delhomme or JaMarcus on us, he should be fine.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Oct 26, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Wanted Smith to be the guy during Camp...
Hill deserved it after coming off the bench 2 years in a row and I felt that Smith would eventually get his start. Smith’s arm opens the play book. We all saw that yesterday and it was very refreshing. Had he won the game yesterday it wouldve been the biggest win in the last 6 years. But thats ok. We still saw something sunday. Alex Smith was supposed to be the guy. He is only a few months older than Flacco and Ryan and has been playing pro ball since he was 20. If it wasn’t for injuries, this would have still been his team.
So here we go. Alex Smith should be the man for the rest of the season. He has the tools to do it. Crabtree, Davis and Gore are all here. Time to put this together.
"Bar None!" - William Floyd
In just one half of play, Smith was 15-of-22 for 206 yards, three touchdowns and a desperation pick at the end of the game. It’s hard to believe he can keep this up, and in the future, he’ll need to avoid fumbling a lot (he has tiny hands), but if Smith can continue playing like this, the 49ers will be a Super Bowl contender.
Thats from Walterfootball.com. I hope he tears indy a new one hahaha.
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 26, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions
So where are Bignerd and Drew K?
Among the couple other dozen posters that were certain, to the point of mentioning it over and over again, that Alex Smith has no chance to succeed in the NFL?
Bunch of idiots.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions
to be fair
Drew K ate a substantial amount of crow yesterday.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
To be fair
Alex Smith has not suceeded in the NFL. But, yeah Shaun Hill supporters seem to have disappeared like the Dodo bird.
by FiveAlarmFreddy on Oct 26, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m also under 6 feet tall.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
You missed a very good Swan Hill drop right there.
Swan Hill seems to have disappeared like a Dodo bird.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Idiots?
Calling a half of a game a success completely undermines the successes of NFL greats. Demeaning of an NN poster in this case just makes you out to be a jerk.
Smith has shown VERY little in his NFL career to lead people to believe he’s anything but a bust. Most of the people who still believe in Smith have always been optimistic about Smith (myself included).
Even one half of solid football disproves....
The extreme, blanket statements these fools have been making about Smith for years. Guys that “can’t play” don’t do what Smith did yesterday, period.
And yes, “idiots”, the same ones that heckle Smith at bars and have made it uncomfortable for him to go out in public simply for being a young QB on a terrible team.
These clowns have ripped Smith at every opportunity, many of them out of some ridiculous desire to feel justifed about disliking the pick from the start. He’s never done anything to deserve the vilification, it was just a matter of impatient fans and unfair expectations.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh.
One half does not disprove that the guy has no chance at success in football. It’s not like this is the first time Smith has lit up fans hearts/eyes with his play. Being solid for one half doesn’t make you good or even capable of playing. Being capable of playing is being consistent, even if you suck (see Roman, Mark).
Actually it does
Being capable of playing is……playing well. Playing well consistently means you’re a “good” player, aka the next step up.
But the bar was set pretty low for Smith to disprove the highly exaggerated criticisms we’ve seen in these parts for years. These guys gave him no chance.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Guys that "can’t play" don’t do what Smith did yesterday, period.
On September 22, 2002, Tim Couch went 36/50 for 326 yards and 3 TDs with 1 INT.
Tim Couch was not a guy who “could play”. Even lousy players have good games.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Tim Couch was all right
He was on a terrible team, then his career was destroyed by arm injuries. Hard to say how good he could/should have been.
Just like with Smith, I don’t kill a guy because of his team’s failings, even a QB.
But again, Smith didn’t have to do much to prove his critics wrong given the severity and consistency of their criticism.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
People seem to have a very hard time
separating individual failings from a team’s failings.
Exactly like with Smith, its hard to produce when you’re on a terrible offensive unit. Good football requires 11 guys doing their job well. Couch was in a terrible system led by a coach that should never have gotten a job in the NFL. It broke him, then finally killed his career.
Remember reading quotes from the surgeon that did his procedure, said it was the most shredded rotator cuff he’d ever seen.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
See my response below. I’m not trying to use Couch as a be-all-end-all example. He was just an easy example among many, many quarterbacks who have had at least one good game (or half a game!) in their careers. Couch is not the point of my comment above. He’s just a vehicle I used – apparently not successfully – to try to make a point.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
If that were true
Steve Young would have never been what he was. He was on one of the all-time worst teams to start his career but the Niners saw potential in him and brought him on. Nobody saw potential in Couch and thats why he never would get a chance to redeem himself in the NFL.
Even on a bad team, QB’s can show signs of potential like Smith has done at times or like Steve did with Tampa. Couch actually was a perfect example of the point I think
Couch did get chances
He was in a couple of training camps, but his arm never recovered enough for him to play again.
But don’t let me stop you from spouting off whatever other inaccuracies that come to mind.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
You prove the point even further
He blew it. And so did you by bringing up the 2 fails in GB (where he got booed out of the NFL) and Chicago (Where they just realized how horrible he really was).
You’re going to blame it on injury? Thats cool… cause players have never come back from injury to do well or anything
huh hmmm *cough *cough Drew Brees
Good call thoguh
You don't know what you're talking about
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2980572&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines
“But it was the release of Couch, who last month signed a two-year contract with the Jaguars, which drew the most attention. The move by the Jaguars could end Couch’s career, which has been marked in recent years by shoulder injuries.”
“He was in training camp with Green Bay in 2004, but had shoulder problems and was released. Couch has spent much of the past three years attempting to rehabilitate his shoulder and to get back into the league.”
“It was obvious in the first few weeks of camp that Couch had lost considerable arm strength because of his shoulder woes.”
What does Drew Brees have to do with Couch anyway? Brees had a separated shoulder, Couch a rotator cuff tear among other things.
Look at Chad Pennington, who also had a rotator cuff surgery, he also lost a lot of his zip. This is all very basic stuff, Couch’s injuries have been a killer to many of the QBs that experienced them.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
P.S.
Said Danielson, now a college football analyst, in describing the injury: “A rotator cuff [injury], to a throwing athlete, is like cancer.”
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Well...
Tim Couch is just my default example for anything in these situations. I hope that my larger point isn’t lost behind what might be a bad example. I could spend a ton of time looking up game logs for crappy quarterbacks, but – understandably – I don’t really want to.
Lousy quarterbacks do sometimes have good games. It doesn’t mean that they’re talented. It just means that for whatever reason they managed an aberrant performance. The important thing with Smith right now is determining whether or not this was an aberrant performance.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude
Lousy quarterbacks do sometimes have good games. It doesn’t mean that they’re talented.
I don’t think this game proved Smith is “talented”, but the criticisms of Smith were more like “he will never be a competent QB in the NFL”.
Do you see any room between these statements? How maybe this game doesn’t mean he’s here to stay, but that just maybe the critics substantially overplayed their hand?
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree with that necessarily. I disagree with the idea that, and I was quoting you, this proves that Alex Smith “can play” in this league.
I think that the Smith critics have often overplayed their hands, but using this half of football as any kind of proof of anything is, in my opinion, overplaying the hand way too far in the other direction.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
You'd feel different if Smith won the game for us yesterday.
With a minute or 2 more we would have won yesterday. Houston couldnt stop Smith.
"Bar None!" - William Floyd
What?
Alex’s good showing doesn’t cover up your poor argument. I vaguely remember your ridiculous debate. Your stance wasn’t one of those “I still believe in Alex Smith”, it was more like “overwhelming evidence suggests Alex Smith is great” . . .wherever you pulled that out from.
You absolutely killed him
And you were dead wrong, feel free to restate my arguments to your liking though, its fun to watch people deal with being so extravagantly wrong.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Mrrrrow.
Ffft. Ffft. You’re a feisty kitten today.
If you’ll excuse me, I’m going off to search for that debate. I might need some of it for the next Alex Smith Fanboy Newsletter.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 26, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
Lots of ire built up over the years on this subject.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m sure Matt Schaub would have done just as well if he were starting behind an awful O-line in the NFL instead of playing his senior year at Virginia, not given any receiving help, suffered through Jim Hostler, and forced to rehab a shredded shoulder after his coach publicly questioned his toughness.
Just because Schaub was eased into a starting role when he was Smith’s age now, it doesn’t mean that he would have been called an unconditional bust if he had failed in Smith’s position. Football fans are patient, smart, and forgiving, but they can also tell a bust before a guy turns 24. That’s just how it is.
I don’t think you’ve thought the other side’s position through.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 26, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll admit I learned from experience
I used to dump on Eli Manning when he stunk first few seasons, but he developed and got comfortable and is now a good player. Its just pointless to rip any young QBs, the learning curve varies so much.
But all this stuff about “he’ll never be good”, its just impossible to say about any 21 or 22 year old, nevermind one with the skill set Smith has.
by Stoned Slacker on Oct 26, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I know you were being flip, but:
One half of play is a really inadequate amount to base any kind of DVOA analysis on.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
and also, unless you have ESPN insider, the DYAR ratings don’t come out until tomorrow.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
It's time
to install the spread offense and activate Brandon Jones and Jason Hill to play WR along with Crabtree and Morgan. We have two excellent pass catching TEs in Davis and Walker and two excellent pass catching RBs in Gore and Robinson. Put Bruuuuuce out to pasture.
Kezarvet
a. smith is a loser and has always been one. don’t get me wrong he had a great game yesterday. but do you honestly think he can keep it up. throughout the years he has shown signs of a good nfl qb but never lived up to the hype. i honestly think our offense need to start mixing it up. for a team that is suppose to be a power running offense, we sure do suck at running the ball. i’m tired of this conservetive crap. half the time the team looks like theyre not even trying to pick up the first down.
HE'S A LOSER
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
NOT A WINNAR
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
There is no hype with Smith.
It’s just the never say die passion with Montana and Young and every Qb with the franchise being measured up to them. It’s not gonna happen there will never be another Young or Montana. Smith was drafted at #1 overall and shouldn’t have been and it wasn’t his fault. He also was drafted to a team that was in the process of rebuilding the ENTIRE offense. We got lucky with Gore, and that’s why we have had a small glommer of an offense. The only hype wit Smith is the draft selection, and that’s the media, plus fans who can’t let go of the good ol’ days. Smith has had a new OC for every year of his career, name another QB in the league that has had success when dealing with that blaring issue. You can’t so lets call Smith what he is and has been for a while due to the state of the franchise, a work in progress.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
there will never be another Young or Montana
Colts fans said the same about Unitas for years. Look at what they got in Manning.
Packer fans said the same thing about Bart Starr for years. Look at what they got in Favre.
Given that those are different eras and styles of play with the players mentioned above, in theory, those fans were correct. They didn’t get another Unitas or Starr. But when both Favre and Manning retire, it’s probably going to be said the same about them. There will never again be a Brett Favre or Peyton Manning. While true, there will be others that come in and “wow” the current fans of whatever era that it happens to be. I don’t know if it’s a bogus theory or not, but it seems that things tend to happen in cycles retrospectively speaking.
I’d say eventually, (there’s no telling when), that the Niners will field another stellar QB. It’s bound to happen sometime. While its inconcievable to think that with the current standing of the 49ers situation, I keep my optimism that we land another potential Hall of Fame QB someday. The sooner the better of course.
Who knows maybe Smith will show that he’s capable of that. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for him in another round. But for me, and I feel alot of other fans, this is the last time. Last chance.
Smith for Sure
I seriously seriously thought he was done.
But forget the numbers from yesterday, as impressive as they were. What I’m excited about is the way Smith handled himself in the pocket yesterday. We’ve seen the last couple years his tendency to be tentative while making throws and miss open receivers and even those little dump off screens. The man looked like he had no idea what he was doing half the time.
Sunday was different. I don’t know what it was, whether he had an extra fire in his belly and wanted to prove something or what, but he looked confident for the first time since Norv was here. He was calm enough to avoid the rush and buy time to make plays, and when he threw the ball, he threw it like he KNEW it was going to go exactly where he wanted it to go. I think his worst problem the last few years was his confidence, and a game like yesterdays is the perfect game to give him the shot in the arm he needs to revive his career and prove to all of us, and most importantly himself, that he can be the guy.
Start Smith.
why
Why is Chilo Rachal on the field.He cant block for crap.Every week he keeps messing up.Cut his sorry ass.
Smith deserves to start
If you pull your QB at the half, you clearly are not convinced that they can get the job done, and you are looking for someone else to step up. Smith did exactly that in the second half of the game against Houston. His performance has been discected multiple times here, so lets look forward a bit more.
First, Smith has more mobility than Shawn Hill. This becomes important with a weak O-line. Smith has more ability to be able to keep a play going when protection breaks down. It isn’t an automatic sack. Obviously its a fine line, and in the past Smith has had trouble holding onto the ball. But if he can be careful with it when moving around and trying to make a play…and not be afraid to throw it away…it could become really beneficial.
Second, Smith has a better arm than Hill. With Crabtree looking like he might actually be ready to contribute, Morgan still looking good and being a downfield threat, and VD becoming one of the top receiving TEs in the league, having a QB who can spread the defense and move the ball downfield will really open things up for the running game. I think Smith has more of an ability to do that than Hill.
Now, he has never been particularly accurate on those long throws. As was evidenced with the game ending INT, he has a tendency to overthrow receivers downfield. But if he can limit those mistakes, he becomes more of an asset than a liability.
In the end, Smith has always had the ability to be a good QB. He has the football IQ, the arm strength, and the mobility to make things happen. It’s always been his fumbling and INTs that held him back. If he’s grown as a QB and can limit those turnovers, it could really transform this team from a fringe division contender to an actual playoff run contender. Something we cannot say about Hill. I say that makes it worth a shot.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 26, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions
There is way TOO much here to do justice to what happened yeasterday.
If you recall before the game the 3 WR set over\under was 8.
Now the important this is why it was 8. Singletary has insisted that we will be a running physical team. We sat 3 WR’s. We played the SPREAD offense for most of the second half.
Now for all you guys saying that the Texans didn’t plan for that, guess who else hasn’t? THE 49ERS!!!!!
We have to undergo a complete philosophical transformation and I think Sing has to figure this out. You have to play the way that gives you the best chance to win. Well that is starting to look like 4 WR sets. Look how good the OLine looked when we did that. Lets not forget this is the Oline that blocked for 7 step Matrz drops last year.
Maybe its time for Sing\Raye to realize that our best chance of winning is to do a 180 on offense. Raye certainly seems to have the playbook. Smith and Crabtree seem to like it. Oh and I dont think VD would mind.
Find out now!
The 49ers need to find out if they need to draft a QB early in the 2010 draft, and the only way to really do that is find out if Alex Smith can do the job as a starter-now. While Nate Davis may turn out to be an answer we’re not going to find out this season. The 49ers have two first round picks and if they don’t need a QB then they can pick up a OL & a pass rusher which they very much need. If Alex can’t do the job let’s find out, I think it is obvious that Hill can’t do the job as a starter.
I will say that I think we have suffered long enough watching feeble offenses. You can’t run unless you have a credibile passing game and quite frankly I’m tired of watching a yard and a half and a cloud of dust, and then getting sacked on third and long. Enough.
Need to draft a QB no matter what
I don’t care what Smith does. He’s too much of a liability we need to draft another QB no matter what. Let’s face it he didn’t pan out. Maybe he has a chance to do well, but if we can draft a stud I’m all for that. That being said I hope Smith is the starter and hope he does well.
The Shaun Hill era is finally over. TG.
really?
even if he throws for 300+ yards every game for the rest of the season?
Not saying he will, just saying it’s a little crazy to make blanket statements like that.
Also, who would you draft? Chances are