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Twitter mania: 49ers, Michael Lewis, Tarell Brown, Brandon Jones

Fooch's Update 2:10pm - Adam Schefter is usually on the money, but just to make it official, the 49ers sent out their press release announcing the Tarell Brown contract extension.

I couldn't really think of a catchy title for this, so I just went for something simple.  Twitter has provided us a potpourri of information for your discussion pleasure.

Tarell Brown
The 49ers haven't sent out the official announcement yet, but for now, Adam Schefter is reporting the 49ers signed CB Tarell Brown to a 3-year, $7.125 million extension that included a $2.5 million extension.  Brown had injury issues that cost him time and likely a starting role this season.  Dre Bly wasn't spectacular in camp but did enough to lock down the job for now.  I'm guessing we'll see much more of Brown next season, assuming he can stay healthy.

Sunday Info
Maiocco reported on Twitter that first and foremost, Adam Snyder will start at right tackle and Chilo Rachal will start at right guard.  I can't imagine folks can get all that excited about this given the struggles the line faced when those two were starting at those positions previously.  The Colts bring a wicked pass rush, so this is just one more thing to be concerned about.

Maiocco also mentioned that Michael Lewis will be back starting at safety.  As always, Lewis brings great run support help.  Mark Roman had his issues last week, so let's hope we can have some greater consistency from the two safeties.  The Colts offensive attack is no joke, so everybody is going to need to bring their A-game this week if the 49ers are going to spring the upset.

Finally, Brandon Jones will play and back up at split end.  Given how much time Crabtree, Morgan and Bruce are getting, how much action will Jones really see?  Say the team goes to a 4-WR, 1-RB offense.  Vernon Davis is very likely to be one of those four players split wide.  I suppose they could mix Jones in to the mix, but I just don't know.  Unless they want to start fazing Isaac Bruce out of the picture.

We'll be back with an injury report later today, but in the meantime, feel free to discuss all things 49ers in this thread.

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green dot

I was going to include that info, but really wasn’t sure what to do with it. I don’t really know how much the green dot hinders a young player.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t really know how much the green dot hinders a young player.

It definitely depends on the player, but Willis didn’t want to wear it previously because there was too much stuff going on in his ears.

by sfgfan on Oct 28, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it works best when a Safety has it

He can see everything in front of him. Tough for a LB to correct alignment mistakes behind him.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Oct 28, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just concerned with why Willis was struggling

If it is indeed harder for a LB, how come we don’t see other LBs in the league giving it up to safeties? Is Willis soft in the head?

by Ninjames on Oct 28, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No on Willis "soft" in the head

and I think now that he is releived of that duty, he can just focus on his assignments and what he does well.

I agree with Spurred that it’s easier for the FS to make the calls being that he has everything in front of him

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Willis and the dot

Singletary had this to say about the dot, Willis and Goldson.

On what S Dashon Goldson gives the defense with the helmet radio that LB Patrick Willis didn’t:

"I think what happens is that you have responsibilities. There’s one guy that’s responsible for the ‘Close’ call which is [LB] Takeo [Spikes] and another guy that’s responsible for making the calls, that’s [LB] Patrick [Willis]. Then you’ve got a guy that’s got to relay the information on the back end to the defensive backs, and sometimes when Pat gets it, sometimes he’s in his game here and you’re talking to the D-line and the DB’s are so far back and then maybe on the headset the last thing the guy sending the call in said is, ‘make sure you watch this, make sure you watch for the bang-8, make sure you watch for the deep route and that’s the one bit of information that you don’t get out. I think it makes it difficult, so I think that it’s one less thing that Pat will have to think about. I think he understands the importance of those guys having it back there because if there’s a mistake back there, then nine times out of ten it’s going to reveal itself on the scoreboard. If there’s a mistake on the front line, hopefully somebody can go and make a play and make a tackle and we’ll talk about it. If it’s on the back end, then it’s hard to recover."

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes sense to me.

I guess I just didn’t understand why it went back to Willis in the first place after it didn’t work out.

by Ninjames on Oct 28, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I just didn’t understand why it went back to Willis in the first place after it didn’t work out.

I think it’s a case of someone wanting Willis to step up and be basically the leader of the defense. Willis, naturally, wouldn’t say that he doesn’t want that responsibility without trying again.

by sfgfan on Oct 28, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't get this?

Back in the old days things worked differently. The defensive signal would be sent in, the captain would call out the formation and we’d break the huddle.

If the secondary needed extra instructions than the DB coach would impolitely yell from the sidelines, “Hey, dip{site decorum}! Watch out for the deep ball! Back the {site decorum} up! BACK THE {site decorum} UP!!!”. Communication system worked rather well.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the entire problem as our DB Coachs these days don't have the power in their voices to be heard

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Oct 28, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya, they are trying to squeeze in all instructions through a 5 second window on the walkie talkie . . . maybe that’s the problem.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let P-Willy be P-Willy

He was great his rookie year without people telling him what to do while hes doing it.

Down By the Bay,
Where Al Davis Sucks
Back to my Home
I Dare Not go
For If I do
Singletary Will Say
Have You ever
"Passed on Crabtree on Draft Day
& Picked a Bust Like Heyward-Bey"

by sac-townz finest on Oct 28, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. He is fast, powerful and has great instincts and intuition.

He can wreak havoc, and is a great cover guy. headset is a distraction for him. He does enough already.

by zacksf on Oct 28, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

this should be good

As was said, Willis is already making reads and adjustments for his own play along with spikes moving D Lineman around, etc. They can’t easily turn around and start directing traffic behind them and keep a good eye on what the offense is doing, changing, etc. This way Goldson doesn’t have to turn around.

Plus, like Sing said, when a call doesn’t make it into the secondary…guys get beat for big plays (there aint nobody behind the safeties). If the LB/DL misses a call…there are others behind them to hopefully save the day.

by Tre9er on Oct 29, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he learned from roman so that could be good for us

49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha

by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 28, 2009 1:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It’d be nice if Brandon Jones actually gets into the game. Preferably, I’d like to see him taking over some series for Bruce, who seems even another step slower and surprisingly I’ve even seen him drop a few this season. Time to phase him out. Jones has skills, and could help open things up for us.

Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!

by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 28, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

I’d like to just see him work out of the slot in a 3 wide set 10-15 times with Crabtree and Morgan working the outsides and Vernon in tight. Just a different look to see how it works out.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much info! Great job Fooch

And might I add Maiocco’s recent blog entry that does some myth busting. I really like this since he addresses some assumed negatives about the “spread offense” and Niners coverage of TEs. His film study also gives both Roman and Clements higher game reviews than most fans would think.

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/10/player-review-with-a-little-bit-of-myth-busting.html

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Oct 28, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

spread

Yea, I was thinking of posting something separate about that, but people can feel free to discuss it here.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Bruce is on the way out

Wasn’t this past sunday his 200th career start? I think now that he’s reached that milestone he will play less and less. He and the team must realize that he is not the future at WR (nor the present for that matter) and we need to get Jones, Crabs, and Morgan as much playing time as possible

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Oct 28, 2009 2:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm all for starting Bruce the rest of the season, though.

So long as some other guys get some playing time after that first play. In all honesty, I want it to be up to Bruce. He doesn’t have to prove anything at this point, if he wants to play more in this (likely his last year) then I want him to come out and say it, or I want to hear word of him telling the coaches he wants to play.

by Ninjames on Oct 28, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I definitely think...

… they’re trying to phaze Bruce out. If the offense does indeed open up a little more, I can see Bruce sitting more when the 49ers spread out. I can also still see him playing in the base packages as well as the lone WR.

by sfgfan on Oct 28, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know brown has potential

But if were going to give him an extension shouldnt we see if he can even play yet and give him some playing time, or is he just signed to be the third or fourth cb for 3 years?

by june8thjrat on Oct 28, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think...

… the extension will pay him the amount of money a solid, veteran, #2 or #3 corner is to be paid. I know his has potential, but I don’t know if he’s definitely a solid #2 or #3, yet.

by sfgfan on Oct 28, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brandon Jones signings

Mc Boo Foo was a fool to bring this guy in.

They paid him more than he was worth and he wasn’t more than a decent WR at Tennessee.

These funds couldve been used more usefully elsewhere.

by Italia1970 on Oct 28, 2009 4:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hard to argue against that

A big paycheck for a fringe player at worst and #2 or #3 option at WR at best.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brandon Jones

We had very few options back in march but to over-paid a little to sign him as a free-agent. Back then Issac Bruce was considering retirement after Martz was let go, Morgan was unproven, Battle was over the hill and NO ONE thought we had a chance in hell to get Crabtree in the 10th spot.
He was the best receiver for us on the field in pre-season before the shoulder-blade injury, he showed separation speed, good quickness and good hands.
Now that he is activated and healthy, I think we will see more and more of him while Bruce is being phased-out . Don’t mind seeing him as a punt returner either

by Forever9ers on Oct 28, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I might as well make this my signature because it cannot be brought up enough

From Maiocco’s Q&A

Comment: I suspect there’s the impression that the 49ers went to a spread or “opened it up” because the commentators mentioned something to that effect and because Smith was able to get the ball down the field and get the WR’s involved, not to mention the 3 TDs to Davis

My response: All three TDs came with two TEs on the field, and only the last one came on a formation in which guys were spread out. On the first two, the 49ers’ TEs were bunched together on the line. —Matt M.

1st Point: The 49ers did not run a spread offense, mostly they had 3 WR on the field.
2nd Point: The play calling was no different. Same offense with Shaun Hill.
3rd Point: Jimmy Raye did nothing different! The team just executed in the 2nd half. Time to get off his back, the issue was never play calling. Too much whining about the results and not enough attention being paid to the actual plays called.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 5:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Very true

49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha

by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 28, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maiocco's thoughts

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/10/player-review-with-a-little-bit-of-myth-busting.html

I don’t want to plagiarize the entire post but it’s broken down right there in Myth No. 2.

Also, having 4 targets on pass pattern does not make it a spread offense, it makes it a pass play. Walsh used to find ways to get 5 targets in a pass pattern with simple 2 WR sets and his offense was called the West Coast offense.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

I tend to take Brian Billicks word over Matt “local” Maiocco’s. A spread offense is exactly that….spread. There’s a thousand different ways to name a play or an offense. Spread offense is commonly ran in college. Shotgun spreads.

More definition for clarification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_offense

Anyway, your point about Raye running the same offense is clearly wrong as you saw in the vids.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are fishing in the wrong spot if you think Brian Billicks carries more credibility in analyzing the 49ers than Matt Maiocco.

Also a horrible Wikipedia page on the spread offense. Shotgun and 3 WR set does not make a spread offense, it’s just a standard passing formation. They way wikipedia defined it any pass play could count as the spread offense because the offense wants to spread the defense out to create a passing lane and one target typically runs a deep pattern. These plays have been around much longer than the misconstrued term “spread offense”.

When the 49ers play the entire game in no huddle, 4/5 WR sets, pass 2/3 of the game and have Alex Smith run the ball like Tim Tebow than you have yourself a spread offense. Just exhale and realize it was only another QB running the Jimmy Raye offense. Vernon Davis didn’t learn a new offense at half time, he scored on the same plays as before.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are fishing in the wrong spot if you think Brian Billicks carries more credibility in analyzing the 49ers than Matt Maiocco.

Really? I didn’t realize Maiocco has ever coached in the NFL or for that matter… at all, at any level. I’m not sure you realize how extremely ridiculous that appears.

You are ver very very very very very very very WRONG about the spread offense. Maybe not about a different QB but thats all you got right.

You have really shown your capacity on the knowledge of offensive formations (which is limited to what Matt Maiocoo “says”). I think you are going to reach for everything you can now because its easier than admitting that you’re wrong and that you bought some puffing by a local media guy trying to spin something that is not true.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are fishing in the wrong spot if you think Brian Billicks carries more credibility in analyzing the 49ers than Matt Maiocco.

I’m going to have to go with Drew on this one, no way I trust a (site decorum) reporter over a former NFL head coach.

Beyond that it’s not necessarily just based on the number of receivers. Was Delanie in more than usual? He often splits out wide as a receiver, and so does VD for that matter. Were they playing the slot more than they usually do?. Were there more shotgun snaps? Maiocco doesn’t go into any of those things, so while he may be right that the plays were the same I am not convinced by the evidence he presented.

I will say though that I have been fine with Raye’s playcalling for the most part, so I’m not complaining about that.

by Brendan Scolari on Oct 28, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

spread offense

To everyone in this discussion, and everybody interesting,

When I get home tonight I’m gonna review the tape from the second half. I’ll look at the formations as far as who was split out where and then put together a post for tomorrow morning.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cool

I wanted to too, but my sister stopped my recording in the 1st quarter. Grrr.

Anyone know if the Niners game was selected for NFL Replay? I could record that and at least see most of the plays.

by Brendan Scolari on Oct 28, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not sure

I got an account on NFL Rewind, which lets me watch every game that’s been played this season on nfl.com

Also, I DVR each game and keep it until the start of the next game.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I DVR them too

But like I said I wasn’t able to for the Texans game.

What’s Rewind like? The whole game or NFL Replay style? How much did you pay for it?

by Brendan Scolari on Oct 28, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NFL Rewind

I actually got a free account with them through a friend. For $25 you can sign up for it for the rest of the season. The link is below. They also offer monthly and weekly passes. Basically, after the games are completed they show up there (you can’t watch completed games until every game for the day is done). They basically show the entire network feed of the game without commercials. So no missed action, but no commercials.

The footage is interesting because it seems to bounce back and forth between HD and regular coverage during the game.

https://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/secure/registerform

by Fooch on Oct 29, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It did not

They actually chose the Atlanta-Dallas game. Odd choice since it ended with such a large spread but it is the Cowboys. They can’t give the nation enough of a Dallas win.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Oct 29, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

That’s pretty stupid. Don’t they choose 2 games for each conference though? Was the other NFC game Saints-Dolphins or Vikings-Steelers or Cards-Giants?

by Brendan Scolari on Oct 29, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My understanding is it's just the "best" four games from the weekend

They showed MIN-PIT and NO-MIA on Tuesday night. ATL-DAL and AZ-NYG was last night. Granted, our game was 21-0 before it got good but they could’ve edited it for more 2nd half plays. Ultimately, had we made it all the way back and won, or at least foreced O.T., I think it would’ve beaten out the Dallas game. I guess the tie always goes to the NFC East even if they were already the top 2nd game of Fox’s double header, so most of the nation already saw a rather average game.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Oct 29, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely wold have beaten out the Dallas game then

I also hate it when they show Sunday/Monday night games on NFL Replay. I’ve already seen those games and a lot of times I record them, show a replay of the games the whole country didn’t already get to see…

by Brendan Scolari on Oct 29, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s provided right below in the links I attached. Like I was trying to explain before, it doesn’t matter “who” it matters “what” is in a formation. On the last drive, and a few times before, you’ll notice that there were 4 wide and 5 wide sets (discluding the “who’s”) and in shotgun formation. If you go to youtube and look up Alex Smith’s highlights while at the University of Utah, you’ll notice the similarities in what the Niners were running at times in the second half versus what the Utes ran in 2004. It is well documented that Urban Myer is a spread offense coach. He was at Utah and he is now at Florida.

Obviously every formation will not be the same as it is college football versus pro football but just notice the similarities on the “spreads”. It was in fact a pro-style spread offense the Niners ran on occasion in the 2nd half.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate to point out the obvious . . . again

1st:
All your evidence of 4 WR sets takes place on the final drive of the game. You think maybe that was the 49ers Two Minute offense and not the prior offense they were running in the 2nd half? You finally saw 4 WR sets when the defense had switched to prevent mode and the 49ers were behind in time and yards to go . . . noted in Maciocco’s article.

2nd:
As noted above your video highlights from NFL.com do not account for the rest for of the 2nd half (you know, the part of the game when the offense was successful). Maiocco has already reviewed the game with the DVR, detailed the personnel and formations in his report and felt comfortable enough to write an article saying the perception of the “spread” was bunk.

3rd:
Maiocco even noted fans got the impression the 49ers were running the spread offense because of the commentator during the broadcast. Who just happens to be the same Brian Billick as in your other NFL.com video talking about the offense!

4th:
Maiocco noted, and I quoted above to start this thread, that only the last Vernon Davis TD catch came when the formation was spread out. The two previous came when the

TEs were bunched together on the line
.

5th:
Finally, what is a pro-style spread offense? Even your own hack Wikipedia page questions the concept and notes the following on it’s NFL Spread Offense section . . .

This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.

Your guy is a lazy, inarticulate broadcaster and this isn’t the first time he’s been accused of this, A Rant about Brian Billick, NFL Analyst .

My guy Maciocco, has already gone home, broken down the film, was there to watch the 49ers install this offense in April, talked to the 49ers after the game is reporting the facts as a professional journalist. You’d think if the 49ers were running a new offense in the 2nd half it would have been mentioned during one of his numerous post game interviews.

What you saw was the vertical passing aspect of Jimmy Raye’s power run / vertical passing offense . . . SURPRISE. The difference in this game is that it worked cause the ball got out of the QB’s hands into the defensive backfield.

See, research and facts . . . not a very^32 power wrong comment.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1st:

Maoicco said

2nd:
Maoicco said
3rd:
Maoicco said
4th:
Maoicco said

Obviously you have no other sources besides Matt “frickin” Maoicco who is an expert because he’s laying on his couch just like me and you dissecting film on his DVR apparently. Btw, he went to Humbolt State University (I am sure that once his kids are in bed, thats not the only “puffing” that he does). Yeah I guess tha would make him an expert over a guy who’s credentials are the following:

College
Billick worked as a graduate assistant at Brigham Young for one season (1978) before joining the 49ers as the assistant director of public relations for two years (1979–1980).
He returned to coaching with San Diego State University, serving as the tight ends coach and recruiting coordinator for five seasons (1981–1985). After being named the offensive coordinator of Utah State University, Billick improved the second-worst offense in Division I-A into a top-ten offense in only three seasons (1986–1988).
Billick was then hired as the assistant head coach and tight ends coach at Stanford by Dennis Green, serving both roles for three seasons (1989–91).

National Football League
[edit] Assistant Coach
The Vikings made the playoffs during six of the seven seasons (1992–1998) that Billick spent with the team, and set several offensive records in the process. In 1998, Minnesota set a then-NFL record for most points scored in a season (556) (which has since been broken by the 2007 Patriots), and set a team record with 41 touchdown passes. His work under Minnesota head coach Dennis Green put Billick in the Sid Gillman coaching tree.

[edit] Head Coach
[edit] Baltimore Ravens
Billick became the second coach in Ravens history on January 19, 1999, when he was hired to replace Ted Marchibroda. He had a 85–67 record in nine seasons (1999–2007) with the team, including 5–3 in the playoffs.
Although Billick had the opportunity to interview for the head coaching job of the reactivated Cleveland Browns and was rumored to be their top candidate, he chose to interview with the Ravens first.5 He signed with Baltimore in under 24 hours after his initial interview.
In his first season with the Ravens, Billick led the team to its first non-losing record (8–8) in the franchise’s brief four-year history.
The next season, Baltimore finished with a 12–4 record and earned its first playoff berth. Prior to reaching the playoffs, Billick forbade his players from using either the term “playoffs” or the term “Super Bowl,” with the idea of keeping them focused on winning each game instead of on their more distant prize. Billick felt this approach would help them reach that prize, and went so far as to fine Tony Siragusa for violating this rule. In response, the players borrowed the term “Festivus” from the television series Seinfeld for the playoffs, and the term Festivus Maximus for the Super Bowl. When they reached the playoffs, Billick lifted this ban. The Ravens took advantage of their vaunted defense, which allowed an NFL record-low 165 points in the regular season, during the playoffs to advance to and win Super Bowl XXXV.
Billick led the Ravens to a 10–6 record and a victory over the Miami Dolphins in a 2001 wild card playoff game before losing to the Pittsburgh Steelers in the Divisional Round. Baltimore finished 7–9 and missed the playoffs in 2002, but bounced back in 2003 with a 10-6 record and the franchise’s first division title; the key game of this season was a wild 44–41 overtime win over the Seattle Seahawks in which the Ravens scored 20 unanswered points from the 10:14 mark of the fourth quarter through overtime; the win launched the then 5–5 Ravens into the division title. The Ravens lost to the Titans, 20–17, in the Wild Card Round of the playoffs.
The Ravens missed the playoffs in 2004 (9–7) and 2005 (6–10) before bouncing back in the 2006 season. Billick fired offensive coordinator Jim Fassel on October 17, 2006, assuming the role for the remainder of the season, as the Ravens earned a franchise best 13–3 record, won the AFC North and earned the first playoff bye in team history. Baltimore, however, lost to eventual Super Bowl champions, the Indianapolis Colts, 15–6, in the divisional round

HE’S BEEN DOING THIS FOR 31 YEARS… he must not know what he’s talking about clearly. Matt Maoicco was 11 years old when Billick began coaching as a proffession

5th:

Professional teams have also used various versions of this scheme beginning with the former Houston Oilers, the Atlanta Falcons, and Detroit Lions. The 2007 New England Patriots utilized the spread with quarterback Tom Brady and wide receivers Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, and Jabar Gaffney. In addition, the San Diego Chargers (1980s) and the various West Coast schemes developed by Bill Walsh and the San Francisco 49ers (1980s) stemmed their offenses, in many ways, from Ellison’s and Davis’ designs. In addition, a new offense known as the “spread-flex” is emerging among many programs. This offense combines the flex-bone and the spread offense together in order to cause confusion for defenses and to take advantage of mismatches. This dynamic offense has worked its way up into the smaller colleges and universities such as Air Force who use it very effectively. It can be effective in many ways to spread the ball out to the wide receivers as well as using a lot of pre-snap shifting and motion to run the option zone read plays. Imagine combining the offenses of Navy (a heavily run-oriented option offense that has led the NCAA in rushing in every season since 2003) and Texas Tech (one of the most pass-oriented college offenses) and you have the “spread-flex”.

The 2008 Miami Dolphins are the most recent team to implement some form of the spread offense in their offensive schemes. Lining up in a “wildcat” formation, the Miami Dolphins, borrowing from Gus Malzahn’s college spread offense, "direct snap" the ball to their running back, Ronnie Brown.5 Brown is then able to read the defense, and either pass or keep the ball himself. Thus far, defenses have had difficulty stopping this new-look Miami offense—an offense which stunned the New England Patriots at New England and the San Diego Chargers at Miami during the 2008 season, although some teams were able to adapt.

And I find it extremely humorous that your hyperlink references the Field Gulls board as if it could be any kind of “official” citing.

Fun fact: Brian Billick helped Singletary become the coach that he is today. He was Sing’s mentor. So to knock Billick is to knock Sing as well. That’s how credible my guy is.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's it huh?

Ad hominem attack on Maoicco who clearly researched this answer that you refuse to believe.

Than you copy and paste the Wikipedia page reference that I already cited has the big “This section does not cite any references or sources” sticker on it.

I certainly don’t see any praise towards Billick’s broadcasting ability in your resume cut and past there. Excellence in one job doesn’t always translate to another. I guess your lucky Billick was the one to tap Singletary instead of Matt Millen, but your entire point on that matter is a red herring.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Than you copy and paste the Wikipedia page reference that I already cited has the big "This section does not cite any references or sources" sticker on it.

You didn’t tell the entire story with your rebut. People ought to be subject to all of it rather than your word in trying to twist something by bolding a disclaimer that is written on all Wikepedia cites. Of course now you will come back and say that it makes it non-official but you haven’t brought any other reference to disprove it.

I certainly don’t see any praise towards Billick’s broadcasting ability in your resume cut and past there

Uhhhh… I didn’t realize there needed to be. His expert (yes I think coaching for 30 years qualifies as EXPERT) analysis far out weighs Matt Maiocco’s. How many games has your boy Matt broadcast? Oh that’s right…he’s just a measily little local journalist that earns a living on spinning stories to grab peoples attention like yourself. Mission accomplished eh?

Didn’t see any rebut on why Matt is an expert over a guy who has studied film, and broke it down for 30+ years. Maybe it’s cause you realize (I hope by now) that Billick is just a little bit more knowledgable and insightful about football and football formations than a rinky-dink press democrat journalist. Or whoever the heck he writes for.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to double disprove your Wikipedia evidence? It’s right there in the disclaimer, Wikipedia’s doesn’t believe Wikipedia.

I’m backing the guy in Maoicco who eats, breathes, sleeps and has made his living reporting on the 49ers for years. He’s at ground zero and has spent the last two days digging up your answer and talking to the 49ers.

Billick broadcasted the game for 3 hours and probably hasn’t given a thought to the 49ers til his 30 second question on NFL Network. You think maybe he’s given it less thought and maybe that big football brain of his struggles to simplify and relay concepts to the audience in an ad hoc format of a broadcast?

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you think that Billick just throws on a suit and gets in the Benz, gets to the studio, slicks his eyebrows in the mirror, spouts off whatever he wants and then goes home… Is that about right?

There couldn’t possibly countless hours of research breaking down game film for what he will be speaking on to NOT sound like he DOESN’T know what he’s talking about on a National stage. Riiiiight…
I think the fact that he was there announcing the games, seeing the formations from an overhead view, and that he’s coached for 30+ years does validate him as knowing what he’s talking about.

And journalists always report truth and accurate information eh? Sure.

At this point it’s safe to say that we are at opposite sides of the spectrum in what we think is ligit and what isn’t. The Niners did run a form of a “spread” offense. What does the word spread mean exactly? Could it mean spread?

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think in survey between fan trust of beat writer versus broadcaster as far knowledge of a particular team, it would be landslide for the former.

Passing offense /= Spread offense. Now it’s simply bastardizing the term to include any obvious passing formation where one receiver runs a deep route. I take it if Vernon Davis lined up in the slot and caught an 3 yard slant before rumbling for another 30 yards it means the 49ers ran the West Coast offense. That’s how nebulous you are making this argument for the spread.

by bignerd on Oct 28, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know about you but I don’t have a copy of the 49ers playbook. And I can just about guarantee Maiocco doesn’t have a copy in his back pocket either. There’s no way to prove actual play-calling.

So I am not sure how you could possibly know this:

3rd Point: Jimmy Raye did nothing different!

But I betcha that Brian Billick would recognize a formation and a play if someone asled him. Maybe not by what the Niners “call it” but generally.

I cannot recall Hill taking snaps out of shotgun or under center in a 5 wide or even 4 wide set one time in the first half. So I am not sure how this statement could possibly be true.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously Hill wasn’t behind 21-0 the entire 1st half. Safe to say the 49ers were trying to execute part of power run game in the power run / vertical passing offense.

Also, my comment of Jimmy Raye did nothing different expanded to more than just the 1st half of the Texan game. It was the same passing formations and play calls we’ve seen in obvious passing situations throughout the early season.

The 49ers haven’t had to use those passing plays much because prior to the Falcon game they’ve rarely fallen behind. Hill’s thrown in shotgun, he’s thrown seams to VD, he’s thrown deep out patterns, the teams brought 3 WR sets on the field. Alex Smith even ran this offense in preseason against the Broncos and Raiders.

Jimmy Raye did nothing different. The game situation was different, so you saw more passing. Unlike the Falcon game, the passes were actually getting thrown down field.

by bignerd on Oct 29, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

but we’ll leave it at that.

I am not sure if Fooch is doing a break down of the 1st half also. He just mentioned the 2nd. So I am not sure this will ever be proven or disproven.

And just for the record, I did not take any of this personal. We just have a difference of opinion. I have actually seen things from you that I’ve agreed with. So at this point we’ll just have to agree to disagree until further evidence. Maybe they will touch more on it this weekend against the Colts. It sounded like Sing and Raye were implementing different things for the game

by Drew K on Oct 29, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t take it personal either . . . unlike you know who.

I truly believe it was the same offense, just finally executed.

I do think Raye was junking up a few things in regards to formations and different motions to trick the defense into believing a different play was coming. Still looked like the same out patterns and seams to VD no matter the formation.

Also think he was reaching to the back of his play book for ideas because his offense isn’t designed to pass the entire half.

by bignerd on Oct 29, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

knocking coaches

You really think if somebody has a problem with Brian Billick, they automatically have a problem with Singletary? Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but if you did I wouldn’t call that the greatest comment in the world.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

I oviously didn’t mean it that way. It was to stress the silliness of someone discrediting someone who has been a proffessional inside the sport opposed to someone (a journalist) on the outside trying to make a buck on spinning stories (it’s his job to create the dramatics). It was more for the purpose of a slap back in to reality

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments

I understand the point you were making before that. I honestly think by saying that last comment it’s possible many readers will just forget everything else you’ve said that might be on point and discredit you based on that one comment. Just something to keep in mind during debates like this.

Also, I’m going through my DVR of the game now. On to the 49ers final drive of the game. Gonna schedule a post on this for around 7 or 8am pacific time.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure many readers would disagree with that completely. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th sentences were truth. The 3rd was to stress the point.

Maybe it was out of context but there was a little bit of truth to what the comment said if you dig deep and think about it.

Is it not possible that when learning a trait from a mentor that you develop some of those exact traits? Maybe a majority? Thats all I was saying…

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just pointing to how matter of fact your statement was. You said that if I knock Billick, I’m also knocking Singletary. I just don’t buy that. But I also understand that wasn’t the point you were trying to make. I’m just saying it can get in the way of your point, that’s all.

by Fooch on Oct 28, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noted.

So how exactly is the break down going to come across? Are you going to just do the sets and formations? Or are going to get deep in to it noting every player in on every set? cause that could take some serious time?

And I think the main argument here was that Raye wasn’t doing anything different from 1st half to 2nd half in regards to play-calling.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

breakdown

I didn’t specify the players in each set. Basically it will break down what positions are on the field and where they’re lined up in a general way.

So for RBs, whether they’re lined up in I-formation, 1 RB deep, beside the QB in shotgun, split wide.

For TEs, whether they’re lined up on the line or whether they’re split wide.

For the play I just say basically pass to ____, or _ rush. Not the play design or anything. The Fox broadcast just doesn’t provide enough camera coverage and I don’t have enough time anyways. But I think it’ll provide enough to spark some more discussion.

Just enough

by Fooch on Oct 29, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cool. It’ll be interesting I’m sure.

Maybe more will be revealed during the Colts game as well on the matter of the “spread”.

by Drew K on Oct 29, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If anyone else is interested

Here are some playbooks with spread offense formations (Includes TCU and Texas Tech):
http://www.the-endzone.net/Offensive%20Playbook%20Page.html

by Drew K on Oct 29, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and like I said before…

A formation makes the formation, NOT personell packages. You could line up 4 offensive guards in a 4 wide, shotgun formation and it’s still considered a “spread” offense.

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is key here

I remember lots of times they’d have 3 wide in a shotgun formation and motion Gore out there too. Just because it was a 2 WR, 2TE, 1RB package doesn’t mean it’s not a spread. Anything where the QB is in shotgun in an empty backfield with 4 guys split wide, I’m calling it spread whether bignerd likes it or not.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 28, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There were a few clips in there that

they were running a spread. When he was in the shotgun (which wasn’t shown in this clip) there may have been two TE’s but they were spread. It’s the formation that makes the formation, not personell

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A couple more

these are a little harder to see but at the end of Vernons catches here, notice that there are 4 targets spread.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d813c55e3/NFL-Weekly-Countdown-No-8-Mount-Vernon

One more look… it wasn’t ALWAYS the formation but clearly you can see it a few times. Particularly on the 3rd TD score they were in a shotgun 4 wide set
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d813aee2b/NFL-Scoreboard-49ers-Texans-highlights

by Drew K on Oct 28, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BUT BUT BUT BUT

HOUSTON DIDN’T PLAN FOR ALEX SMITH

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 28, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so after what the Texans defense and coaches saw in Alex Smith

in the 3rd quarter, they said let’s still play against this offense like it’s Shaun Hill?
No I would think they make adjustments in the game for the pass-first offense that they saw cam up against them

by fortyniners on Oct 28, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude I was joking.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 28, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you bignerd

I wish we could all watch the coaches film before assessing blame and credit right after a game. The way things appear on TV, and worse when having it funnelled through broadcasters who are often being presumptive, can give such an innacurate meme from the game.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Oct 29, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of Alex Smith

I hope he survives the Colts pass rush. With the offensive line he has in front of him, it is a concern. In general, I hope that Smith does well this year, that he learns and does not get hurt. Realistically we cannot expect Alex Smith to set the world on fire without a better offensive line, which won’t happen until we use at least one of our 2 “1’s” to pick a top OT.

A guy like Okung would make all the difference.

Stay healthy niners. We have a lot of great young players, but we are still a few bricks shy of a load.

by zacksf on Oct 28, 2009 8:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

regarding the QB situation

There are two possibilities:

1) Alex Smith develops as hoped for. (He is only 25; he was a 1st pick. It is realistic to hope and believe that he can be a playoff QB who can lead a serious offense.)

or

2) We need to draft a QB

I am definitely in favor of 1) and would like to see our draft picks used for Oline, DB’s pass rush, etc.

by zacksf on Oct 28, 2009 8:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Alex Smith

I mean, it was not just because he lives in the bay area that Alex Smith stayed and worked out with Crabtree. Things were cooking and I am glad. Realizing the potential of your high draft picks is key to building a team, and that is what the 49ers are doing: building a team.

by zacksf on Oct 28, 2009 8:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Couple of things

49ers.com announced Brown contract extension and also looks like some TE from the Lions has been picked up to the practice squad. I thought we already had TE Finley and FB Miller on the practice squad, didn’t think we’d need another one.

Brown extension

TE to practice squad

by fortyniners on Oct 28, 2009 9:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Im gonna say it again...

Mark Frickin Roman….UGH

We just traded who for who?!

by BawLa on Oct 29, 2009 1:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs


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