Michael Irvin on Michael Crabtree
by Fooch on Oct 9, 2009 2:52 PM PDT
in News
147 comments
First off, thanks to Drew K (among others) for pointing out this video. Michael Irvin is not exactly a popular figure among 49ers fans. And yet, as cocky and brash as he can be, he knows a thing or two about football. And as this video shows, he's got some very intriguing thoughts about Michael Crabtree and what he might be able to do in the 49ers offense early on.
Obviously many people have high hopes for Crabtree long term. However, the big question is what to expect short term. The folks at Bodog.com were kind enough to send me some odds related to Michael Crabtree. The over/under on Crabtree's 2009 regular season receiving yards is 349.5, his total touchdowns is 2.5 and he is -130 as to whether he'll finish with more receiving yards than Darrius Heyward-Bey (bey is even money). I find that last one particularly amusing. If you're thinking about that kind of wager, pay attention to what Irvin has to say.
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Dang it
I hate when a Cowboys player actually makes sense.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 9, 2009 2:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling that after the bye week our offense is going to higher than 28th and Raye is going to let the dogs out.
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 9, 2009 3:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Video is gone...
Can anyone give a breakdown of what he said? I am curious how people around the league think he will affect our team. Regardless what he actually does, if everyone THINKS he is a threat, he is gonna spread the defense and allow Gore and Coffee to run them down. At least for a game or two. If they treat him like a run of the mill receiver, then he will hopefully have some huge plays early before teams start focusing on him. Either way, I think it is win-win, I just want to know which one to expect.
by AKinferno on Oct 9, 2009 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Basically
Basically, Irvin believes that since the 49ers’s offensive terminology is simplistic (i.e. numbers denoting routes), it shouldn’t be hard for Crabtree to get into the game. While getting into the game isn’t going to be a problem, having success when in the game is a whole other issue. Learning DBs tendencies and taking a route called in the huddle and thinking, “how am I going to run this 4-route to beat this guy?” is where Crabtree will have to adjust the most.
by sfgfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great clip, it's back up
I don’t think that’s quite what Irvin said. He did say that picking up a playbook that runs on standard route numbers is what Crabtree already knows. But he said the benefit of that is that he can go to the line knowing the route and using his time to think about beating his guy, rather than trying to think about what the play call means his route is. The difficulty he called out was in knowing what to do during play breakdown time, which is all team chemistry.
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
by achiappanza on Oct 9, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I wish on the first play that he is in we throw it deep to him. It doesn’t matter if he catches it or not (it would be nice), but it should open up the run game more.
by 49RFAN on Oct 9, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not Michael Crabtree’s strength, though. If the 49ers are going to stretch the field, they should be doing it with Hill or Jones in the slot, not Crabtree.
by sfgfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
best deep routes are on the sidelines
it opens the field for the slot and the te. I look for raye to slowly open up more and if the niners make the playoffs HE WILL EXPLODE.
"Optimist Prime"
Come along and ride the muthaship!
by rlott#42 on Oct 9, 2009 4:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t doubt that Raye will start to open up the offense more as time wears on. I just disagree that Crabtree is going to be the main focus of that.
by sfgfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Regardless what he actually does, if everyone THINKS he is a threat…
That’s not how the NFL works. Teams will force him to prove it first. Why? Because not only does Crabtree has to open up the field, Hill has to be able to get him the ball. Those are two VERY tough unknowns to overcome in two weeks of practice.
by sfgfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no
If you clearly have speed, they won’t sit there and let you run by the corner back with no over the top help for an easy TD just to prove you have speed. They’ll start with a base expectation and very quickly adjust that to what they see on the field.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does he have the speed?
That was the main reason he slipped to the 10th pick.
by bignerd on Oct 9, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speed isn’t everything
Ask Al Davis.
Was it speed that made Jerry Rice the Greatest?
Or
Was it his great route running, his ability to get open, his instinctual use of open space, his ability to attack the ball at it’s highest point, and his great hands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-PA5E7L1v0
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rice was grate for all of the above.
His speed was not in quick acceleration but in his stride. Jerry was not a sprinter but more like a middle distance runner. Once he got it all moving he pulled away from folks..Add that to his great hands, grate conditioning and great open field running you have grace and greatness all in one..
by WC-Ninerhead on Oct 10, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Just the opposite—-his speed was in quick acceleration. He could be caught from behind.
Please, check out the video I provided above.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure where you saw him get caught from behind
Maybe when he was near the end of his career?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Oct 10, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I wrong?
You’re saying Rice had blazing speed?
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You said "he could be caught from behind"
Then directed everyone to the video you linked. I didn’t see Rice getting caught from behind in that video. So I guess his speed was blazing enough.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Oct 10, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point was
Jerry Rice was never the fastest guy on the field. His speed wasn’t the reason why he was the Greatest.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows...
I was just using speed as one example of something that you wouldn’t just wait and see. If a guy runs a 4.2 40 in pads, you don’t just let him run fly patterns. If Crabtree is excellent at breaking tackles (which he seems to be), you don’t put a crappy tackler on him. I don’t know… we’ll see.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 10, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to add to that.
A good receive will need to adjust his speed to the play and the QB. In his rookie year VD ofter outran the play and the QB could not get the ball to him. Once the catch is made then kick into high gear and run like hell.
by WC-Ninerhead on Oct 10, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They probably we double him unless he starts making plays after the bye week
by 49erSalvatrucha on Oct 9, 2009 3:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at the Crabtree love
Maybe we should have payed him more and got him into camp sooner…
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously.
You’re just going to keep pounding that sentiment?
by sfgfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously what?
If we’d (the 49ers) paid him more, wouldn’t he have gotten into camp sooner?
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pay
Yes that would have gotten him in sooner, but that would have sent a message to all future draft picks, that the 49ers front office is weak and will bend over backwards to pay you more than the system dictates. It would only have encouraged more holdouts.
by Fooch on Oct 9, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pure speculation
…based on an irrational fear that the 49ers front office may be weak. Too weak to recognize that Crabtree represents a special case, and that each draft is different.
I may be new to Niners Nation, but I live close enough to Dallas to know a dysfunctional team when I see one.
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can of worms
You don’t pay more just to pay. Proof of Statement=Oakland Raiders. Crabtree is the loser in this, or should I say Parker. He cost Crabtree a year. Niners would have done 5 years, maybe 4, ended up getting 6 (really 5.75)
by monkeyklawz on Oct 9, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree is a special case?
He was a great player in a great system. I do think he can be a very good NFL player but I don’t see him as a once in a generation talent as you may view him.
I don’t think you understand how the NFL really works in this regard. You think the 49ers are dysfunctional because they wouldn’t go outside the slotted salary system? You’re more than welcome to think that, but I (and many other NFL fans) believe you are wrong.
If the 49ers had gone out of slot with the contract, you’re telling me next year their two first round picks (or one if they package away the picks or whatever) wouldn’t look at that and view the 49ers as weak in contract negotiations and as a franchise? During the recent down years, the 49ers turned into a team walking around with a kick-me sign on their back (see the Chicago Bears/Lance Briggs tampering issue). There is an issue of appearances to future players and the league that was a factor in this.
by Fooch on Oct 9, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Concur
Al Davis ends up overpaying every year, coincidence? Probably not.
by monkeyklawz on Oct 9, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
incomparable
I don’t think you can compare any NFL franchise to the Oakland Raiders. That organization is a complete freak show.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a great player in a great system. I do think he can be a very good NFL player but I don’t see him as a once in a generation talent as you may view him.
He was the best receiver in the draft, no question about it. I (and many other NFL fans) know this to be true. I think he has the potential to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I’m not ready to say he certainly will be.
I don’t think you understand how the NFL really works in this regard.
Yeah, thanks… After all, you’ve just explained it several times before but I’m sure you looked at my user page and found out that I hadn’t read a single one of your previous posts. right…..
You think the 49ers are dysfunctional because they wouldn’t go outside the slotted salary system?
Yeah, again, thanks… I wanted the 49ers to go outside the slotted salary system and you know this because you’re a professionally trained psychic, maybe?
During the recent down years, the 49ers turned into a team walking around with a kick-me sign on their back (see the Chicago Bears/Lance Briggs tampering issue). There is an issue of appearances to future players and the league that was a factor in this.
OK, now we’re getting somewhere. Thanks. No, really. You admit what I’ve suspected, and actually agree that there was a fear in the 49ers front office of appearing weak.
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
slotted system
Your initial comment that started this was “Maybe we should have payed him more and got him into camp sooner…” I took that to mean going outside of slot which obviously was a misinterpretation on my part. But you don’t need to pull out all the attitude with every comment.
We have a disagreement on various issues and we’ll just leave it at that.
by Fooch on Oct 9, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
But I thought I was getting attitude.
With comments like “I don’t think you understand…” and “I (and many other NFL fans) believe you are wrong.”, you weren’t pulling out attitude?
It goes both ways.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
attitude vs. opinion
I thought I was simply expressing my opinion about what you were expressing. I feel like based on your comments you don’t understand how the NFL works in this regard, so I expressed that. You were adding in sarcastic remarks that were unnecessary. But that’s just my opinion.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, OK
You were just simply expressing your opinion. I’m sure you weren’t condescending in any way…
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sarcasm
Sarcasm is unnecessary in this conversation.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's make a deal
I’ll stop the sarcasm if you get off your high horse…
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
high horse
If you think that, you’re entitled to it.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No condescension on your part?
C’mon Fooch. Just own up to it.
I owned up to my sarcasm.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too weak to recognize that Crabtree represents a special case, and that each draft is different.
You don’t think that EVERY college player, especially ones taken high in the first round, think they’re a special talent?
by sfgfan on Oct 11, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think DHB is a better receiver than Crabtree?
If not, then it’s obvious that Crabtree was the best receiver in the draft. He fell into the 49ers lap because of Al Davis’ boneheadedness.
That was the point I was trying to make.
by 10forTech on Oct 11, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still
EVERY outbound college player will believe they are better than others. I strongly believe Crabtree is INDEED a very special talent. I’m sure the 49ers recognize this, too.
It’s just one thing to believe that, but it’s a whole other thing to try to fight an existing system just because you want to be paid more because you believe it (even if it is indeed true).
There are PLENTY of players every year that are better than some player(s) drafted ahead of them. Many of these players are drafted even multiple rounds after the players taken ahead of them. What those players do, though, is sign their first contract and play. If they truly are better, teams hardly hesitate to extend these players long-term. Yes, you’ve lost the potential early millions, but at least now you’ll have your extension that commensurates your ability.
It was a very tragic situation, but I don’t think anyone can fault the 49ers for doing what they did. Now, if they try to use Crabtree as a reason why they’ve failed this season, then that’s a whole different story. However, I doubt the 49ers will look back at this situation as a cause for their failure(s).
by sfgfan on Oct 12, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make a good point
Understand I’m not trying to defend the indefensible. Crabtree’s holdout was a bad idea. Much of this could have and should have been avoided. It’s just my opinion that the 49ers could have been more aggressive in trying to get Crabtree on the field. Did they indeed offer Crabtree up to B.J. Raji’s numbers? If so, they were quick to rescind that offer once Crabtree appeared ready to end the holdout.
There is no question that some players get drafted ahead of others that may well be better than them, but don’t you agree that Crabtree case was at least unusual? How often do you think the best receiver in the draft and the third best player overall (by almost all accounts) falls into the lap of your franchise? As Singletary said shortly after the draft, "Never in our wildest dreams did we feel that Crabtree would land there…"
We’ll never know what impact, if any, Crabtree would have had on this year’s season had he signed early and been in training camp. It’s my opinion, however, that his potential impact was worth a more aggressive negotiation strategy by the 49ers.
by 10forTech on Oct 12, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that's right
I don’t suit up so I’m not part of the team.
No problem. If you’d like to edit the comment, be my guest. Or better yet, just delete it like you’ve done to some of my other comments…
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get hurt
It’s just that nobody in this blog would agree with you on that.
The 49ers held their ground and Crabtree came around.
It worked out for the best.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 9, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
comments
First, your comments have never been deleted (by my OR by any moderator) and I actually can’t “edit” comments either.
Second, I was partially kidding around with the we. Just poking fun at a newer 49ers fan that’s all.
Personally since I don’t actually suit up for the team or work for the team I prefer to not use the term “We.” (although it can occasionally slip out in my posts). Others are welcome to do whatever they like with that term.
by Fooch on Oct 9, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, OK, whatever
Comments deleted
A couple of folks were getting extremely childish so I’ve deleted the last group of comments form this thread. People need to act like adults here.
Sign up for a free account on Niners Nation!.
by Fooch on Oct 5, 2009 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was trying to calm those two guys down, remember? Since my comments were embedded between their comments, I guess you ‘had’ to delete them, right?
Don’t be disingenuous, Fooch.
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
comments
My apologies for overlooking that. I was looking at your user page and it showed no deletions. I forgot you were mixed in with that and the user page only shows when I directly delete a person’s comments. Yours happened to get caught up in the mix of those comments.
The way the technology on our site works is when I delete a comment, any subsequent replies get deleted automatically. I have no control over that, so no I’m not being disingenuous.
by Fooch on Oct 9, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"We"
Personally, I often use “we” when it comes to what the team should do on the field. But “We should have paid him” immediately conjures up the thought that it wouldn’t have been out of my pocket, even though I am a season ticket holder so I probably wouldn’t say that.
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
by achiappanza on Oct 9, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
arguing semantics
Let’s go over to Linguistics Nation and discuss it…
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First
Nobody in their right mind just gives in to the ridiculous demands of an unproven rookie. That’s just ludicrous.
Second, this is a little fishy:
The guy who’s handle is “10 for Tech” and who’s icon is a picture of Mike Crabtree thinks we (or the niners, however you’d prefer) should have given the guy whatever he asked for. Let’s look at the stats:
Double-T Nation (Texas Tech Red Raiders blog)
Member since Sep 15, 2007
3 FanPosts
4 FanShots
255 Comments
Niners Nation (San Francisco 49ers blog)
Member since Apr 10, 2009
1 FanPost
4 FanShots
326 Comments
So, you’re a Texas Tech fan, or rather a Mike Crabtree fan since you didn’t join until he started college, then you joined the blog of whichever team drafted him. Great, I’m a Crabtree fan too! I love what the guy’s done and I’m really excited for what he might do here. I firmly believe that all the “diva” BS was overblown by people here, especially because every word out of his mouth has been nothing but class and maybe a little of the sheepishness that comes with youth. Welcome to Niners fandom, but at least admit that you might be a bit homeristic about Crabby.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to Niners fandom, but at least admit that you might be a bit homeristic about Crabby.
And maybe try to temper it down a little bit. Just like the rest of us with the whole “NINERZD RUUULEZZZZZ!!!! SUPSER BLOW OR BUSTZZZZZ!!!!!!” thing…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still upset over the chester comment?
I was just joking around.
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
I’m just referencing your “We shoulda paid my favorite receiver, no matter how whiny, Crabby, and stupid he may be acting.” We were just joshing you about the whole “Texas girlz are hotttt!!!” thing.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 10, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is everyone a psychic?
Yeah… People keep claiming I’m thinking this or that…
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking schminking
This is what you said:
Maybe we should have payed him more and got him into camp sooner…
If you don’t think we should have paid Crabtree more, please don’t say it. It confuses people. Even if you were saying it sarcastically (given your response to the responses, clearly you were not saying it sarcastically), you need to learn that the interwebz don’t convey sarcasm well.
So, say what you mean and mean what you say, and don’t go dancing around what you say by derisively saying people think they’re psychics because they interpret your writing like a normal human being.
Or do you not actually think I think I’m a psychic either?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 10, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
???
Explain, if you can, how:
Maybe we should have payed him more and got him into camp sooner…
=
We shoulda paid my favorite receiver, no matter how whiny, Crabby, and stupid he may be acting.
Wasn’t I saying:
Crabtree,WTF?Every time I posted?
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you Front Paged this Fooch...
I know that there’s alot of fans that think its going to take alot of time for him to be able to contribute. I think Michael Irvin does a really good job at breaking down why he could contribute earlier than expected. He will have 10 games to get aclimated and figure out the chemistry with Shaun Hill in his rookie year. There will be other things like blocking and things like that…matchups, etc that will come in time. But I think overall, he could possibly see the endzone against Houston if the right plays are called and maybe do that more than a few times this year depending on how fast he adjusts to the speed of the game as well as the competition level of the DB’s he will now face.
He could definitely open the run game up more and help Vernon Davis free up for more passes if Crabtree demands more attention from the opposing D’s
by Drew K on Oct 9, 2009 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Irving actually makes some sense here....
he looks high….but never the less.
good luck this season guys…being a giants fan who’s an 80’s baby, I always respected your squad out there. IMO Montanta is the greatest QB ever. These QB now a days don’t know what it was like to have to go up against NY, Philly, Chicago…back in the day. Those games were some battles.
you guys got us good a few times…but we also gotcha back…twice.
Here’s to us meeting up again when it really counts!
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
by andiamo708 on Oct 9, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if crabtree's YAC game is as good as in college
He’ll be an impact player because teams WILL not respect a rookie. I can remember Moss dominating as a rookie and late in the season you’d still see highlights of Moss man t man down the sideline. Hill isn’t a bad short yardage QB and can hit a guy in stride so this can be great. Crabtree actually looks bigger from his press conference so he has been working.
"Optimist Prime"
Come along and ride the muthaship!
by rlott#42 on Oct 9, 2009 4:56 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
True
But Randy Moss also had HOFer Chris Carter on the other side demanding a double team as well as teaching him the walks of the NFL… plus he was super fast, super tall for a WR, and had great hands…that’s why they called him the “freak” back then. What ever happened to that nickname anyway?
I know what you’re getting at though and I see your point.
by Drew K on Oct 9, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G
Chris Carter
234 209 1101 13899 12.6 130 80 4.7 59.4
Isaac Bruce
217 195 1016 15111 14.9 91 80 4.7 69.6
(bold is the higher of the two)
The only thing that Carter has done much better is catch TDs, and Bruce has 1000 more yards on almost 100 fewer receptions. Moss came in in Carter’s 11th year, so he was theoretically still spry, while Bruce is no longer spry, but Bruce’s career has been pretty darn good, and still going. If he gets to 100 TDs, he belongs in the HoF too.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's in regardless
He’s been that good.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Oct 9, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce
will without doubt be a HOFer someday. No question. But he hardly requires a double-team these days at the over-ripe age of 36; and in most case lately has been dropping more passes than he catches. Chris Carter on the other hand, when Moss came in to the league was in his prime still and was being double covered. That was the point…not sure what you’re trying to argue. If you’re arguing that Bruce is better at 36 than Carter was at 31 then you’d be wrong
Once again arguing for the sake of argument I guess.
by Drew K on Oct 9, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if crabtree’sYAC gameanything is as good as in college
…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with rlott#42
His YAC game was great in college the rest IMO was sorta meh.
by bignerd on Oct 9, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what i wrote was correct
"Optimist Prime"
Come along and ride the muthaship!
by rlott#42 on Oct 9, 2009 10:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
He seemed respected on the deep route and had pretty good hands too, if I recall. Tech, how good was Crabtree at everything? Pretty darn good, right?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 10, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why take my word for it?
What others said about Crabtree:
Joe Schad On Texas Tech WR Michael Crabtree
NFL Draft Vignette: Michael Crabtree
Schein: Crabtree still great
Welcome Michael Crabtree
Want more?
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Part
Anything he does is found money. Either Maiocco or Sando made the good point of look what Marshall did with that outstanding individual play against Dallas. That won the game for them. There’s nothing wrong with Bruce and Morgan, but they ain’t making anything close to that type of spectacular individual effort. Crabtree might. And a couple impact plays in the 2nd half of the season might help us a win a game or two, and that’s all you can ask.
Also, I think being a receiver in those ultra pass happy offenses really gets you ready quicker for the pros. You have to make coverage reads and build off that. Davone Bess from Hawaii was a good example of a college guy last year who came in ready to play as a UDFA.
by hammystyle on Oct 9, 2009 4:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This may be the most intelligent and articulate I've ever heard Irvin speak
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Oct 9, 2009 5:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He sounded articulate, but he looked drunk.
I was "Deific16"
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Oct 9, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's retired
Nothing wrong with a couple cocktails before dinner.
by Drew K on Oct 9, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His preferred method was coke
Does he look coked?
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll simply have to see
Last year and for a few years the 9ers were one dimensional at best. Last year it was J Turn Over and Frank Gore not being played. Now there is at least a game managing QB (not a negative, and it shouldn’t be taken as such), still Frank Gore, Vernon having more balls (in both senses of the word) and not catching like he’s wearing oven mitts. Isaac another year older but still the savvy old man, and now you have to worry about getting Crabs. The players are going to worry about Crabs at least a bit, I can guarantee that as much as they followed his holdout they followed his play so it’s another worry to keep them from stacking the box. He could be another JJ Stokes but hopefully more a John Taylor (No I will not hope he’s a Rice for there is no other Rice).
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Oct 9, 2009 6:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter how quick Crabtree learns....
if the O-Line doesn’t shape up. It would be a shame to have to waste next years #1’s on OLinemen.
by monkeyklawz on Oct 9, 2009 6:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You got to be Joking ?
The real reason our Offense is rated at 28th is because of our line. Have you forgotten the last 2 years regarding Sacks ? In 4 games, we have 13 sacks and at this rate, we’re looking at 52 at the end of the season. Not including hurried passes and QB knockdowns. Not much improvement !!
So when you say, " it would be a shame to waste next’s years #1’s on a Linemen " , Well, it doesn’t make sense !!! The OL is the weakest part of our game !!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Oct 10, 2009 5:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I am saying....
Is I wish the O Line was good enough to not have to use the #1’s next year. Meaning, they are so good, why would you draft someone to replace them. That is all. The OLine pool was big in this years draft and not next years, lots of quality talent in specialty areas so it would be a shame to take a lesser talent OLine as opposed to something else.
by monkeyklawz on Oct 10, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have nothing to lose or gain in crab-trees career, If he is as good as he thinks he is, and he can adjust to the pro speed and the pro DBs he will be worth it, but not so much this year.If crabby gets arrogant and over bearing (like our TO) then he will be led into the dbs arms and get his bell wrong. Singletary was and still is a team player and so better craptree. That said I wish him a good education and a good career
buffalo was my home black rock my neighborhood, and the Bills my curse
by crazyoldmen on Oct 9, 2009 8:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting insights
I was never a Michelle Irvine fan. I always thought he was a hot dog with so-so talent who lucked into the right system at the right time with the right QB and a offense that was complete with Emmitt, who was the real star of those teams. But his insite into the complexity, or lack thereof regarding the system Raye runs has me wondering. If it is so easy to learn, would it not also be easy to defend? I guess you would have to ask a DB that question. Anyway this is an interesting video and I hate to admit that one of those Cowgirls actually makes sense ever… but he does make sense.
How fast Crabtree gets up to speed in Raye’s offense isnt the question (pun intended). My question is how long will it take for him to master the system and become efficient to the point that he is reliable. I think that part has me wondering. He seems like a smart kid (really dumb holdout aside). I am wondering if this kid can make this team special this year. Can he be the spark that sets off a run toward a serious shot at contention? Will teams overcompensate for him and give our existing players more room to opperate and can he make those around him better? Can he be the passing offense that we have sorely lacked this year? Well, I guess on 10/25 we will get a peek at what our future holds.
On side note, why do all the elite receivers have an attitude? Even the great one had a attutude at times. I just wonder if they need the attitude to be elite, or if being elite causes them to have the attitude?
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
by FaStRmAn on Oct 9, 2009 8:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
First of all, Issac Bruce doesn't (didn't) have attitude
Secondly:
If it is so easy to learn, would it not also be easy to defend?
It’s easy to learn because the WRs just have to memorize a few numbers and know what routes the numbers represent.
But it’s not like the DBs know what route the WR is running…..
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 9, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad move!
They should have let Crabtree go back to the draft. Another case of unproved talent in the NFL thinking they deserve something they haven’t earned yet. I hope he is a bust.
by Bradc on Oct 9, 2009 9:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
are u a niners fan
if not I understand if so why the hell would you want him to be a bust? He’s our number one draft pick, 10th overall, I didn’t want the team to draft him but it happened and I want him to succeed because it will help the team.
"Optimist Prime"
Come along and ride the muthaship!
by rlott#42 on Oct 9, 2009 10:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 9, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This site
What do you want?
This site (and others I’m sure) has been pushing Crabtree hate for a long time. You want people to just forget the venom posted here just a few days ago and accept Crabtree with open arms? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
I’ve been trying to get everyone here to tone down the rhetoric for a while. Can’t say it worked too well with the people associated with this site blocking my efforts at every turn.
It’s my opinion that the 49er organization pushed this ‘Crabtree hate’ as well. They were hoping it would pressure Crabtree into signing.
I think it’s time for them to ‘man up’ and admit they were wrong about Crabtree.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pushing Crabtree hate?
Can you tell me why you think the 49ers organization was pushing Crabtree hate? Can you cite specific examples? I ask because when somebody says something about the negotiation you say it’s unsubstantiated speculation. So I’d just like substantiation.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
They were hoping it would pressure Crabtree into signing.
Examples: silence…
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
clarification
Just to clarify my own opinion, while I don’t think the 49ers were pushing “Crabtree hate,” I do think they were just fine letting him twist in the wind. It obviously worked out in the end in getting him. Maybe that’s indirect Crabtree hate, but given the way Singletary runs things, I think he was willing to let business handle itself and then separate the past from the future once Crabtree came in.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
It obviously worked out in the end in getting him.
Sorry, I disagree. Crabtree’s words:
"My whole approach in this situation was get better every day. I never looked at what the media was saying or anything anybody else was saying. That’s how I took it."
"I wouldn’t know if they were upset with me or not. All I can do is just come in here and be the best that I can be and try to do the best job I can do."
…but given the way Singletary runs things,…Singletary had very little to do with the negotiations. I don’t have any links, but I’m pretty sure he’s said that from the beginning. BTW, I have a man-crush on Singletary. Great Coach. Did you know he’s also from Texas?
…separate the past from the future once Crabtree came in.Yes, but we’re talking about the fans. It hurts the organization to have fans hate a certain player, don’t you think?
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
???
…when somebody says something about the negotiation you say it’s unsubstantiated speculation.
I didn’t see you provide any facts or links to base your opinion on. Would you like to do so now?
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
link
I was actually able to find this relatively quickly from yesterday in the FanPost “Can McCloughan now get some love?” Link to it.
Not true
The 49ers said repeatedly that they would be willing to give Crabtree a deal that was $1 less than what Raji, the 9th pick, got paid (5 years 28 million, 17.7 million guaranteed).
No link urnext, no link…
The 49ers never said anything like that. It’s an unsubstantiated rumor.
by 10forTech on Oct 9, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No links...
Thanks. This just proves my point. If you can’t back up your statement with facts or links, it’s just unsubstantiated speculation.
Didn’t I preface my statement with:
It’s my opinion that…
While your statement includes what seems to be fact:
Yes that would have gotten him in sooner, but that would have sent a message to all future draft picks…but is only your opinion.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're correct
You did preface it with that, so I’ll withdraw my objection. In that case, can you tell me what you based your opinion on? If you just think that, that’s fine but if you base it on something else I’d like to know (if you feel like telling).
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Asked and answered above
I have a feeling you’re not reading my posts thoroughly:
…which obviously was a misinterpretation on my part.
My apologies for overlooking that.
You did preface it with that, so I’ll withdraw my objection.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Singletary had very little to do with the negotiations. I don’t have any links, but I’m pretty sure he’s said that from the beginning
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh really? I didn’t see you provide any facts or links to base your opinion on. Would you like to do so now?
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
by 49erLou on Oct 10, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously dude
Crabs is signed, just let it go. He held out for whatever reason, he realized he wasn’t helping himself nor getting anywhere and signed a decent deal and now he’s ready to show us fans that he’s worth what the money and hopefully more. ITS TIME TO MOVE ON.
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
by 49erLou on Oct 10, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are 49er fans filled with hate for Crabtree
You should be telling them to MOVE ON.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
49er fans filled with Crabtree hate. Crabtree held out for whatever reason, realized he wasn’t helping himself nor getting anywhere and decided to sign a decent contract. In the end the 49ers come off looking strong and by all accounts Crabtree comes of as humbled by the experience and ready to being becoming a professional football player and better yet a San Francisco 49er. LET GO OF THE HATE, give the guy a chance and freakin GO 49ERS!
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
by 49erLou on Oct 10, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude.. Time to get over it and get on with life
The man has signed is now a niner..So for me how I view him from here on out will be based on what he does on the field in a Niner uniform..
GOOOOOOOO NNNNNIIIIINNNNNEEERRRSS
by WC-Ninerhead on Oct 10, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s part of the TEAM now…
We as fan’s will support him. If he wouldn’t have signed, we obviously would not have supported him. Why would we have? We are Niners fans NOT Michael Crabtree fans….if he would have went somewhere else, it wouldn’t have made sense for us to route for him.
You on the other hand sound like you would have been a fan of whoever’s team he woulda went to. If would have gone to lets say the Cowboys, I suspect that your loyalty would belong to them.
So for you to sit therre and bash all of us, is just a bit ridiculous. From you, its been all about Crabtree. I have not seen very many comments from you (if any at all) regarding anyone else on the team
by Drew K on Oct 10, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't anyone besides me see this coming?
He’s part of the TEAM now…
He wasn’t part of the team before? He wasn’t on the team roster? He wasn’t our (the 49ers) 1st round draft pick?
No one thought he would sign? Not anyone?
Everyone really thought he would sit out the entire year?
Such a lack of forethought…
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t anyone besides me see this coming?
Guess you’re just better than all of us eh?
A majority of the sports following world thought we was NOT going to sign. No one knew for sure…that is impossible. Unless you are secretly Michael Crabtree YOU DID NOT KNOW FOR SURE either!!!! Get real!!
by Drew K on Oct 10, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaking head back and forth
Thanks for the link to back up your unsubstantiated speculation.
or not…
Here’s a quote from a link Fooch provided:
The deadline has passed for any potential trade of Crabtree; that ship sailed on Aug. 14. Crabtree will be a 49er. Pay no attention to the rumor of him sitting out the season.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is there such hostility....
Neither the niners nor crabtree were talking nor writing stories in the papers or on the radio. The only exceptions were when York went on Ralph and Tom and said he wants to talk and when Sing was asked and he would say he is not getting into it.
Whatever Crabtree is saying now is hogwash. He was involved the whole time. Who would not want to be involved when millions of dollars are on the line. It is a business and his business is catching TD’s. The contract is done.
Now, I am sure you will find some piece of information that will blow my statement out of the water, but since we are supposed to be giving opinions and not quoting media, there it is.
by monkeyklawz on Oct 10, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great
Whatever Crabtree is saying now is hogwash.
On top of everything else that people have accused Crabtree of, let’s throw in liar just for good measure.
Way to put all this behind us and move on.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you here for
if you’re just going to sit there and bash everyone that comes to this site. Do you get some kind of plessure out of that??
You have made your point about Crabtree. If you feel like (in your own mind) that he needed to be avenged for all of our injustices to him, then consider it done. MOVE ON!!!
If you’re a NIners fan…then talk Niners, If you’re a Crabtree fan lay it to rest and talk about the good things he does to help this team when those unfold.
I can only speak for myself BUT man it’s getting awfully tiresome listening to your banter about how us as Niner fans were horrible in our comments toward Crabtree BEFORE he was actually a Niner.
Please give it rest. Sincerely.
by Drew K on Oct 10, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Voila...
Like clockwork. Take one line from 10 and elaborate negatively on it. I see a pattern.
Go Niners.
by monkeyklawz on Oct 10, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, that's how they role here
Take one thing you’ve said and misrepresent it. Have you read all the comments above?
Most of it is me defending one misunderstanding after another.
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
we all see how you role with your relentless vigor in beating a dead horse. Did you grow up listening to a broken record player? Cause thats what you sound like.
by Drew K on Oct 10, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Embrace the whirlwind in which you sewed.
16 times in this thread folks have tried to tell you to leave it alone. Somehow, I think even with my “kind words” you will continue to drive home how we “ALL” hate Crabtree. I think that some of the people that were so-called “hating” were more or less frustrated and venting in hopes that he would be a part of the team (no I don’t have anything to cite this..since I know you’ll more than likely say that for the 400th time). Until he signed on the dotted line and was practicing with the TEAM he WAS NOT a part of the TEAM.
If you can learn to leave the subject alone; because honestly it’s dead…. the people here ARE rather accepting. If you are here just to trash talk, I suggest joining a UFC blog or something, sure there’s plenty of that going on over there.
And for the record, I was one of the people who was angry that Crabtree was not on the field sooner. Does not equal that I hated him. More or less was (key word was; notice the PAST tense), frustrated. I think that was the majority that felt that way. Was not a matter of HATE! Hate is a very powerful word and more importantly, accusation to make on a majority of the fans.
by Drew K on Oct 10, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If these guys are real fans they would never wish bad on their team.
That’s not being loyal to your team and they probably band-wagoned the niners of old. I didn’t like the fact he was drafted or that he sat out. My constant reference to the terms douche bag and beaver taint should have been evident. Kid’s a 49er now and for the next 5 years at least, so a bust is not what any REAL fan would want. We’re not the teammates or the organization, so holding a grudge is quite childish and stupid.
"Optimist Prime"
Come along and ride the muthaship!
by rlott#42 on Oct 10, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree!!!!
i think that we should all be behind crabtree because if your a niner fan and you dislike and will keep disliking crabtree these next 5 to six years will not be fun for you watching crabtree in a sf uniform. Lets accept it already everything is done with the whole ordeal is over, now lets move on. As for his help to the offense, well it might not be right away but its a guarantee that he will get his catches and points weather he is average good or superstar good. I mean after this whole situation everybody seems to forget how talanted this guy is, and even if hes a bust we wont feel so bad watching DHB be an even bigger bust. But something tells me that he is gonna be a nice weapon the niners had been looking for. And as of now all of ya´ll can quote me saying it here first (Of course this would be my personal guess and opinion so lets not get in to it over stats) By the end of the year i see crabtree having 500+ yards with 6+ Tds. Sounds about right to me and really it seems like his only competition is not even a wideout but the teams tight end VD.
by demise87 on Oct 10, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So, Fooch
When do you start telling the truth about Crabtree? Isn’t it time to start ‘mythbusting’?
Do you need an example?
Myth: Crabtree didn’t want to play for the 49ers.
“I think Michael expedited the process because he wants to play football,” York said. “I think this was an easy way for neither side to look like they were giving up leverage and have someone kind of broker the meeting. Michael wants to play. He wants to be a 49er. And that was apparent, sitting down and talking to him.”
by 10forTech on Oct 10, 2009 9:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Go to town
It’s in the past and I really don’t feel like doing this anymore. You seem to only want to talk about Crabtree…time to move back to the team itself. Feel free to bust all the myths you want.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Draft up a fan post
Cause I am lost too? I think you are saying we’ve miss represented Crabtree and censored your comments?
by bignerd on Oct 10, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good idea
10forTech: This FanPost idea might be the best option. I don’t know what kind of response it would get, but if you wanted you could use a FanPost to close the book on Crabtree. Basically a rundown of all the truths, all the myths and everything in between. Not something you’d be able to throw together in a few minutes, but something with a lot of detail if you so chose.
by Fooch on Oct 10, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your sincerity shines threw
Especially after the picture posted above… I can tell you really mean it.
by 10forTech on Oct 11, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was shocked Singletary let the Niners select Crabtree at that spot in the draft.
I thought Mike would get the best defensive player on the board to help towards recreating that 85 Bears defense.
I did not like Crabtree high in the draft for many reasons :
Attitude
Only 2 college years
TT system pads stats
Stress fracture in foot
No recent speed time
Harrell a 76% passer was his QB
But since he was the pick and is in SF now – there are positives:
Hill needs a deep threat with sure hands
Issac is getting a bit gray
Gore / Coffee is a great run combo but balance is needed
I expect Crabtree to have a good second half and should help SF down the stretch and in shootout games like Arizona may be
by WarWolf on Oct 11, 2009 9:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fooch, I’ve been a major horse’s ass
Yeah, man. I really have been unwilling to get along with you. Even when it appears you were trying to bury the hatchet, I didn’t recognize it for what it was and continued to pick a fight. After looking back at all that was said, it does seem like you were at least trying to understand my point of view.
I think what shows that you really were willing to give me a chance is the fact that through all of it, you didn’t once threaten to ban me. I doubt I would have given you the same courtesy if our roles were reversed.
So, to Fooch and everyone else I’ve been unkind to, accept my apology for being a horse’s ass. I’ll do my best to stay level headed from now on.
by 10forTech on Oct 12, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
apology accepted
I also apologize if I was coming across at any point as condescending. I think one problem with this medium is that it’s very hard to get a person’s tone unless you see something like /sarcasm or /whatever. I find condescension extremely annoying when it’s happening to me so I can see why any interpretation of it would get under another person’s skin.
In the end we all want to see Michael Crabtree become a superstar with the 49ers. I think part of this whole process is just being able to move past all the acrimony of the last few months and move forward as an organization. I think the 49ers will be able to do that.
And thanks for taking the time to leave this comment. I really do prefer to not ban folks. While I’m the main writer at the site I also know that the readers and commenters are the folks who help make this a great destination for 49ers fans. I’m just a proverbial cog in the machine.
So thanks and let’s hope for some on-field excitement from here on out.
by Fooch on Oct 12, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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