Jimmy Raye Did Not Put Alex Smith and the 49ers in Position to win
by Rocky63215 on Nov 1, 2009 9:25 PM PST
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The San Francisco 49ers battled the Indianapolis Colts and lost 18-14. The problem is the 49ers should have won this game and now the label of " over-hyped" is going to be said of the 49ers.
It's true, though, the 49ers were over-hyped after the team started out 3-0. Another sad part is the fact that the 49ers still have control of the division, but with Arizona improving offensively and defensively, the season is now all but over.
The game against the Colts was a must win. The 49ers defensive game plan was perfect and when a team holds the Colts to four field goals and a touchdown, the defense did a great job.
But the sad part is the offense could not match the defense. It's amazing the Colts didn't blow the 49ers out of the game because of how much time the 49ers defense was out on the field.
I believe it's time for the media to start questioning the hiring of Jimmy Raye as offensive coordinator. Raye should have been brought in as a coordinator maybe as a coach of a specific area, but definitely not a coordinator.
Raye is proving why after another truly pathetic showing by the 49ers offense.
Frank Gore started it off early for the 49ers giving them a 7-0 lead on a 64 yard touchdown run.
Then there was the drive towards the end of the half that went for 89 yards in about a minute and a half. Smith was impressive on the drive, but it showed what the 49ers have to do with Smith to be successful because of how weak the offensive line is.
Put Smith in the shotgun and let him survey the field. When he has enough time to throw he can make those nice plays that 49ers fans saw in Houston and on that drive just before half time.
I have a hard time understanding why Raye didn't spread the Colts defense out and allow Smith to make plays while from the shotgun.
I also think it's time to call out Raye for not utilizing Vernon Davis more. Today he had three catches for 20 yards and one went for a touchdown.
Michael Crabtree continues to impress with his great hands, but he also made a rookie mistake by not taking care of the ball and on that turnover that helped the Colts have a short field and that ended up being the game winning drive for the Colts who scored their only touchdown of the game.
Let's look at just how bad the 49ers offense was. Besides the two drives I mentioned that led to the 14 points, this is what the 49ers offense did.
The 49ers had 45 plays for 134 yards.
That's an average of three yards per play! That's unacceptable.
I do realize that two of the drives ended in turnovers, an interception off a tipped ball by Crabtree and a fumble by Crabtree as I mentioned before.
As for the scoring drives, it went for nine plays for 189 yards.
In fact, punter Andy Lee was undoubtedly the player of the game for the 49ers. He punted eight times for an average of 50 yards per kick and half of the kicks ended inside the 20-yard line.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Did he make a mistake? quite possibly..Should he "apologize" or "admit" he made one? No.
That would damage him and the Offense. That would put Raye as an OC that the team is noted as having no confidence in. And there really isn’t another person around to replace him that I know of. So that could be disastrous.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 1, 2009 9:29 PM PST reply actions
Let's look at a couple of these statements:
“The game against the Colts was a must win. "
No, it wasn’t. Going into today, 11-5 or 10-6 (assuming a win over the Cards) probably put us into the playoffs. That actually got easier as the Cards were upset today, so now winning the division at 9-7 is reasonable in play. We can probably afford to lose two more games … maybe even three, and still win the division.
In fact, with the Cards loss today, we may not have to sweep them to win the division.
“I have a hard time understanding why Raye didn’t spread the Colts defense out and allow Smith to make plays while from the shotgun.”
This is a valid question, but I’m not sure how much the fault lies with Raye. Leading, the team got more conservative. I’m not crazy about that choice, but having SMith throw the ball around like mad would, in general, be bad strategy when you’re ahead. I think a little more aggression would have been appropriate, but the change is one of degree, not kind. When you’re ahead against a team with a high-power offense, you try to shorten the game and avoid mistakes.
“I also think it’s time to call out Raye for not utilizing Vernon Davis more. Today he had three catches for 20 yards and one went for a touchdown.”
Now this is just ludicrous. Raye has consistently put the ball in Davis’ hands. The notion that Raye is somehow overlooking Davis is absurd – Raye is making him one of our primary receivers.
Rebuttal Time
If anyone is going to call out Jimmy Raye for this game the argument is going to need a lot of hard, cold substance.
Play Calling:
Please be very articulate with what was wrong with the play calling. Starting the 4th Qtr the 49ers had passed 60% of the time (27 passes, 18 runs). It’s a hard argument saying the 49ers didn’t pass enough. It’s not like 7 points didn’t result from Frank Gore running. Probably a better argument is that Jimmy Raye didn’t run enough.
Spread Offense:
It was tried in the 2nd half with poor success. Specifically Robert Mathis recorded a sack with a 3 man pass rush and Dwight Freeney got another huge sack with the 49ers in a heavy WR set and Alex in Shotgun. In short, they could not protect the QB in that formation.
Passing Selection:
The Colts play the Tampa Cover 2 defense. Meaning there are 2 safeties in the middle of the field. The middle linebacker drops back deep as pseudo 3rd safety. The other 2 LB’s drop back in the curl or slant zone. The defense is designed to take away the inside routes while preventing offenses from flooding deep zones for 1-on-1 match ups. The only available zones are the deep outs, which the 49ers completed many to Crabtree and a few to Bruce. Essentially Alex Smith and Jimmy Raye were taking what the defense was giving. To open guys up over the middle the pass protection had to be good to buy the insider WR/TEs more time to work a heavily contested zone. Crabtree only split the seam once.
49ers moved the ball:
There were less 3 and outs and many more 1st downs. The problem was the 49ers offense started behind their 20 yard line all game. After moving the ball 30-40 yards they were just at midfield and not position to score points. The running game and passing game were sorta working, neither great . . . but what killed most drives was penalties. Baas bogus holding call, VD false start and another delay penalty. Despite the lack of points I thought it was the 49ers offense most consistent game this season.
I’m getting really tired of hearing about this Spread Offense junk. They’re not running a spread offense. They’re not running a college system. Alex Smith has been out of college for coming on five years now. Running three receiver sets occasionally out of the shotgun is not taking him back to his college days somehow.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
Totally.....
Always love the “its is comfort zone because he ran it in college”. I bet he’s taken twice as many snaps for the Niners as he did Utah by this point.
Ripping the coordinators is almost always the knee-jerk response when teams aren’t going well. The game is probably 85% execution, 15% playcalling, but people see these unsuccessful runs up the middle and blame the first guy that comes to mind, instead of dissecting why their running game isn’t working.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 2, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Well, call me irreparably scarred by Jim Hostler and irrationally fond of Mike Shanahan anytime I make the assertion that the offensive coordinator makes a considerable difference. I think I’d run it more even than 15%/85% coordinator/players, but I don’t know where I’d stick that ratio exactly.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
On the extremes (ala Shanahan-Hostler)
They’re making bigger than 15% difference, that’s fair.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 2, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
So now that you can't criticize Manusky you criticize Raye
According to you we should just fire all of our coordinators.
It’s true, though, the 49ers were over-hyped after the team started out 3-0
Started 2-1
The game against the Colts was a must win.
No, it wasn’t.
This was supposed to be a blowout loss.
I also think it’s time to call out Raye for not utilizing Vernon Davis more. Today he had three catches for 20 yards and one went for a touchdown.
Vernon Davis has 7 TD catches on the season and already has more recs, yds and TDs than last season.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
So?
How much was Davis utilized against the Colts? How about the fact that the 49ers couldn’t convert a third down conversion with over six yards remaining? Why didn’t Davis get a call in that type of play?
The only one was a missed opportunity by Davis who was lazy. He should have been able to drag both feet inbounds and keep that drive going.
I don't think you get it
the Cover 2 takes away the passes over the middle of the field and allows teams to succeed in deep outs. Since there are two safeties over the top in the Cover 2, it’s hard to get VD open against the Cover 2.
The one thing Raye has done is get VD involved in this offense, look at his stats, he leads the NFL in TD receptions! He’s on pace to shatter career bests in yards and catches. If Smith had have been throwing more to VD, he would’ve had 2 more INTs yesterday as VD was not open.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 2, 2009 7:19 AM PST up reply actions
Then why can you only come up with?
Four instances that Davis was used during the game. The touchdown catch, two short passes, and a incompletion along the sidelines which he should have had. Four times is not acceptable.
So why didn't they run any deep outs?
the Cover 2 takes away the passes over the middle of the field and allows teams to succeed in deep outs.
All I saw was a bunch of short out routes that ended up being 2 yards short of a first down.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
for 1
the deep out don’t happen in a 3-step drop, and Alex Smith was under pressure in the second half because Indy’s was clamping down, so the longer the play took to develop, the less likely it was to work.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 2, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think you get it
Cover 2 takes away the passes over the middle of the field and allows teams to succeed in deep outs.
Actually, I believe cover two leaves the middle exposed and makes the long ball more difficult. Cover 2 can be exposed with seam routes by the tight end or reciever. Which VD has shown he can run with high success.
Not the "Tampa 2"
The Tampa two – Indy’s base defense – is an adjusment to the cover two which drops a MLB into the seam to take it away.
It is the main reason why the traditional west coast offense has gone somewhat out of fashion.
by Ronaldinho on Nov 2, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Nov 2, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Cover 2
The safeties play over the top each protect a half of the field in deep zone. The MLB has to creep back and analyze the play and either a, drop back into deep coverage or b, drop back over the middle. Both OLBs are assigned the proverbial “hooks/crossing” zones to the left and right side of the MLB. Each Corner is responsible to cover the area from the flats to about 7-10 yards deep on each side of their field.
It makes passing to the TE very difficult, and considering Indy’s success against the TE so far this season, VD was fortunate enough to find the end zone. Maybe more looks could’ve went his way, but he also needs to find spots in the zone where there’s an opening. The offensive line also has to give the QB enough time so the WRs and TEs can get to those open spots on the field.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 2, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think you understand how hard it is to convert 3rd and longs in the NFL
If you want to complain, complain about how Raye was unable to get the 49ers into manageable 3rd downs.
The easiest way to beat the Colts is to hold them to FGs and run the ball down their throats.
We did only one of two.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Nov 2, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Really Sick
Of all the overreacting to Raye’s playcalling. Execution Execution Execution. Raye tries a ton of different things and the line continues to fail. Smith kept getting into a rhythm only to be dropped by a three man rush or have Crabtree commit a turnover. Gore breaks out a big run and for the most part the line doesn’t give him anymore holes. Now, I still feel like the line has done well considering all the injuries, but Raye’s playcalling is limited by the o-line’s ability to block. He’s not like Martz in that he won’t let Alex Smith sit there like a duck waiting to get hit.
"We want WINNERS!" - Coach Singletary
i agree
that there are different reasons for the niners failure on offense..however..the reason Gore got the touchdown was (drum roll please)….great playcalling. It was an effective call and well executed play that was successful. However there is also a reason the niners offense is so horrid —I’m sorry but running on first down when there’s 8-9 guys 5 feet away from you doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see if its going to be successful or not..—they might get a negative, but also had the potential to bust a large gain too…
for all of Martz’s wackiness in playcalling at least he’d get varied success a sweep here, a blast here, a reverse there
It just seems we need someone in between—steady and able to slam it (like we did succesffully today on the third and ones) when we need to --and also creative (hello have we seen any “trick” plays on our offense outside of the “taser” afterall we were beaten by one today)..we need to open things up or at least let the qb’s audible or the rb’s do cutbacks—-something—-except something not stupid like put def. starters on special teams…
this team’s rigidness and lack of creativity are really what’s eating me up the most..
It's not overreacing
Let’s face it the 49ers should have won this game, it was the boneheaded playcalling of Raye. Put Smith in the shotgun and exploit the inexperience in the Colts secondary. At one point in the second half the two starting cornerbacks for the Colts were rookies and the 49ers couldn’t even take advantage of that.
What also Raye didn’t do, that Smith did against Houston was use his legs. Smith only had one carry for 10 yards against the Colts.
How about the fact that at one point in the game the Colts had only one sack, it wasn’t until the fourth quarter that the Colts really got to Smith and where was Smith lined up it was not in the Shotgun formation except for one of the sacks.
That’s right he was under center. Were you not paying attention on how good Smith looked when he was in the shotgun and the field was stretched out? Even the Fox announcers couldn’t fathom why the 49ers didn’t continue to stretch the field after that great drive that lead to their second touchdown of the game.
In that drive Smith was able to hit Crabtree, Bruce, Gore (twice), and Davis. There was no other drive even remotely close to that. Even the first touchdown drive was basically great blocking by the offensive line and one missed tackle and Gore was gone.
I don’t think Raye tries a ton of different things, though – not most of the time, anyway. I think that when the team isn’t either trailing or in a quote-end-quote two-minute drill, he’s been unbelievably consistent and pretty uninspired. I think he gives things different looks. Like the wildcat we saw yesterday. Yeah, it was out of the wildcat, but it wasn’t a new play. It was still just Gore between the tackles. No misdirection. Nothing off-tackle. Nothing gimmicky. Just different looks to the same plays.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2009 8:26 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, I posted something similar to this.
Raye needs to go, IMO. He simply did not put the Forty NIners in position to win, as you said. He doesn’t have much experience as an OC, and at his age, he’s a stubborn old man who’s washed up. At this point, I really would take Martz back…it’s sad.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Except I didn't provide misinformation :D
chikmagnet, you hound dog, you…
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
Jimmy Raye hasn't had a respectable offense in more than a decade
As a coordinator! His best work has been when he was a coach for a specific position such as running backs. The facts do not lie, any offense Ray has touched has struggled. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put two and two together to realize that Raye is the common denominator in this!
jimmy raye
I can’t stand his stupid predictable play calling!!! Can’t believe he ran the ball yesterday against the colts on a second a 20!!! WTF is that. It’s kind of sad that even a nickel defense can stop our run game. It’s not that I’m not comfortable with our run game, but it’s when he decides to run that kills me. In my opinion, he is a setback to our offense. We don’t have a bad offense, we just have a bad offensive play caller.
He called a DRAW on second-and-20
And a draw is one of the classic ways you exploit the nickel defense + overzealous pass rush you often get on “obvious” passing downs.
If you don’t understand that, you have no business criticizing anyone’s playcalling.
Not arguing,
Just asking. I can’t recall the 49ers using the "draw" successfully this year, can you?
I repeat I am not arguing, just asking.
The entire running game has been a mess ...
… for which Raye bears some responsibility.
And no, I can’t remember an effective draw this season, but it’d take more time and energy than I have right now to make sure.
Also bear in mind that draws are plays you run for a couple of reasons – a lot like screens. Yes, it’s nice when the RB breaks one and makes a big play. But you also run the draw to keep the pass rush honest on plays when you pass the ball. A draw can be “successful” if it goes for only two yards if it gets the DL thinking rather than charging later in the game.
The 9ers did well to keep it close.
This was not a “must win” on the schedule. I don’t think anyone had this game as a W on the schedule, just like with the Eagles. The 9ers can still win the division at 9-7 or 10-6. A win over the Titans next week will make up for the Houston loss and the Atlanta game was always an L on the schedule. The “must win” games are against Seattle, the Lambs, and the Cards. The 9ers are not finished for the season by any stretch of the imagination.
And Jimmy Raye is proving more versatile in his play calling than many of us expected when he was hired. Is he the best OC possible? Obviously not, but he’ll do until that guy becomes available and the need makes itself apparent.
You don't think the Titans game is a must win?
If we lose that game the shat is going to hit the fin ~ BIG time. There won’t be ANY excuses anymore.
The future ain't what it used to be.
Losing to the Titans would imply a bunch of other losses coming up.
It’s not must-win in the sense that if we lose to them we could make up for it by, say, beating Philly.
But it’s hard to imagine us losing to them and then winning the games we’d have to win to make up for it.
Of course, predictions are extremely difficult in this league. Smart people who follow the league very closely rarely get 75% of their picks right. So who knows?
Actually it was
Not in a sense of “oh no the seasons over” but to help show that the 49ers can beat a team that they weren’t supposed to win against.
Niner fans personally need to...
run Jimmy Raye out of town. Let us unite as one and get this L-O-S-E-R out of San Fran
He's in Santa Clara
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Nov 3, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
please calm down
the 49ers are in a rebuilding year with a rookie WR, a “virtual” rookie QB, many young excellent players, a new coach and NO OFFENSIVE LINE.
They need to be smart, and develop and protect their players. If you want to comment on Raye, do it in the off season. That would be more appropriate and helpful.
Some of this discussion is over the top crazy
The idea that Alex Smith should be running, as part of the offense, as mentioned above, is nuts, in my opinion.
There are no “must win” games this year. The 49ers are a young team that is developing and rebuilding. If this go well, especially at quarter back where Smith is beginning to look promising, this could be the last year of a rebuilding cycle during which the 49ers have drafted Vernon Davis, Patrick WIllis, Crabtree, etc (and, yes, Michael Robinson, 4th round, ’06. i like him too…)
For the details regarding what is reasonable and possible see Andrew Davidson’s posts above, which are quite informative in my opinion. In general, the 49ers are very limited in what they can do on offense due to an injury ridden and weak offensive line. Loosing Staley was the a huge blow to an already weak unit. Simms is not Staley.
Again, in my opinion, there are no “must win” games this year. Intelligent coaches see the big picture and do not carelessly risk injury to potentially key players. I like what the OC and coach have been doing the last two games. They have been resourceful in responding to significant adversity (Oline injuries!!!); I will evaluate them further in the off season.
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