49ers TE Vernon Davis: Penalty machine

by Fooch on Nov 13, 2009 11:00 AM PST in News Comment 22 comments

I was poking through the various game threads (more of a skim than hard read), and one of the discussion points that continued for yet another week concerned Vernon Davis and his penalties. Davis was called for a pair of false starts. One of the false starts did not really cost the team in the end, but the first one might have cost them a touchdown (some speculation on my part).

Mike Sando runs a weekly penalty watch, and according to his numbers, Vernon Davis tied with Cardinals OT Levi Brown for first in the NFC West in penalties with eight (totaling 44 yards). According to Sando, Davis has been flagged five times in the three starts Alex Smith has made this season (Davis wasn't flagged in the Houston game). Even though the 49ers have already played an extra game over the rest of the division this week, obviously the penalties remain an issue. Vernon Davis may not quite be a "penalty machine," but penalties are certainly an issue with him.

On the one hand, some folks might argue that it's a matter of getting in sync with Alex Smith. After all, they haven't played together in regular season action in a couple of years. It takes time to get on the same page. I think most people would not give Vernon that kind of pass though. After all, Vernon has always had an issue with penalties, and false starts in particular.

Honestly, I can live with the holding. Even the best of players gets called for holding on occasion. I'd like him to not do it, but if it happens, I'll survive. But false start penalties drive me (and probably everybody else) absolutely crazy. Vernon Davis has improved in so many areas, but the last few weeks have shown a bit of a regression on false start penalties. Any ideas what might be the cause of it? It's possible that Smith uses more and different hard counts that are harder to wait on. There could be a variety of reasons, but either way, it's something Vernon clearly still needs to work on.

Even though Davis struggled a bit yesterday, he's still putting together an extremely solid season. Aside from maybe a little more consistency on a week to week basis, the one thing that continues to keep Davis from stepping into the next tier of tight ends is the mental game; not making so many penalties. If he can figure that out, he'll take a further step towards becoming an elite tight end in this league.

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Holding

not only does it “happen” but most will tell you that the best players hold…they just don’t get caught.

by Tre9er on Nov 13, 2009 11:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I can't get upset with the holding penalties

VD is a great blocker. In fact, I think if you put 30 pounds on him he’d be a pretty good offensive lineman.

The false starts are just stupid. He’s really got to fix that.

by smileyman on Nov 13, 2009 11:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

i think

he gets excited and jumps on plays that are supposed to come to him. glad hes excited, but hes getting those calls on obvious pass to davis situations.

by pwarren85 on Nov 13, 2009 12:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I was actually thinking the same thing

I believe one of those calls for sure was coming his way.

by jonesin25 on Nov 13, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If you have not posted this

I would have never even known. I don’t think that its that much of a glaring issue. It’s obviously something he needs to correct but alot of the penalties on the team always seem to come at the most crucial times…so it seems anyway. I could be wrong.

by Drew K on Nov 13, 2009 12:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think it's pretty glaring

When Josh Morgan got called for a false start last night, I was surprised because I’d already assumed it was on Davis.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Nov 13, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Me too.
I thought the officials got the number wrong.

If anyone false starts on the 49ers it’s always Davis.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 13, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I just haven't really thought it was

with the exception of last night, thaaat noticable. I mean 2 offsides isn’t like “OMG, he sucks!” 44 yards in penalties for the entire season is not a great stat to have, but I guess to me all of his other play out shines it by alot. Maybe thats why it doesnt stand out that much.

by Drew K on Nov 13, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Look, I wasn’t saying that he sucks and I wasn’t saying he’s making me pine for the halcyon days of Eric Johnson, but if a guy has been penalized as many times as anyone else in the league, yeah, I do think that’s a problem and a part of his game he needs to work on. Do his penalties outweigh his positive contributions? No. But are his penalties avoidable? Yes, and I would like him to start avoiding them.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Nov 13, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

fiesty… As you can see above, I too mentioned he needs to work on it. I’m just saying its not like he’s the only one doing it on the team so he doesn’t stand out anymore than anyone else in my mind. If anything he stands out less cause he back it up or makes up for it in his play.

by Drew K on Nov 13, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah dude, it's definitely glaring.

4 false starts in two games. I am just calling that number off the top of my head, he may have more.

by jonesin25 on Nov 13, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's been the false start penalties

I will give credit to Smith, he has drawn an unreal amount of defensive offside calls. But this just goes back to some of my other arguments on how I think the football IQ on this team is just bad. I think we have a crop of duds when it comes to smarts on this team and it shows week in and week out. The talent level I do not feel is questionable, but almost everything else is.

by jonesin25 on Nov 13, 2009 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Football IQ

Orlando Pace is going straight to the HOF 5 years after he retires.

When the Bears played Atlanta a few weeks back, Pace made a critical ‘false start’ penalty at a critical time of the game.

The Bears had a 4thand 1 at the Atlanata six yard line at the end of the game with a chance to tie the game. Pace’s critical false start penalty now made it a 4th and 6. Obviously, it’s much more difficult to convert a 4thand 6 than a 4th and 1.

The Bears didn’t and lost. If Pace makes that penalty in the first or second quarter, big deal. Nobody really cares. Not only did he make it, he made it at the worst possible time in the game.

And he’s a HOF type player. It happens.

If Davis has eight penalties so far, that means he has one a game. Not that big a deal.

by GeoMak on Nov 14, 2009 3:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Problem is he'll go a game or two with none

Then have 2 in one game. That’s why the perception is there. One per game isn’t bad. 2 in a game is bad.

by smileyman on Nov 14, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is a big problem, this isn't pee wee football anymore

Things like that do happen and I am not talking about just one player, I am talking about the whole team collectively. Take the defense for example. You look at it and say hey, we have some solid players, plenty of speed and athleticism. Place Nolan in there who had tons of success in Baltimore and can’t get the defense going to save his life. Nolan leaves, Sing places in the most basic of plans, things go a bit more smoothly. Nolan goes to Denver, implements his defense there on what was a sorry unit last year, they are thriving. Although they have dropped a few in a row now, they are still playing competitive football against good teams with a top ranked D. I am convinced our players are duds.

by jonesin25 on Nov 23, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn’t VD give up more yards due to false starts than he gain receiving yesterday (16 yards I think)?

If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.

by cybermaldonado on Nov 13, 2009 4:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

This post is funny.

VD has more TD’s (7) than any other TE in the NFL.

He has as many TD’s as does Larry Fitzgerald. That’s Larry (commonly considered to be one of, if not the best WR in the NFL) Fitzgerald.

By comparison, sure-to-be HOF TE Tony Gonzalez has 4.
VD has almost double that total.

And people are bitching cause VD averages a penalty a game?

The guy has 7 TD’s and 8 penalties. I’ll take that ratio ALL DAY LONG!

Too funny.

by GeoMak on Nov 15, 2009 10:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

penalties

Just because he’s scoring a lot of touchdowns doesn’t mean he can’t improve. He leads the division in penalties. There’s no excuse for that, no matter how touchdowns he has.

by Fooch on Nov 15, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a meaningless statement

Just because he’s scoring a lot of touchdowns doesn’t mean he can’t improve

Everyone can improve. Peyton Manning has thrown 5 INT’s this season (along with 16 TD’s). He can improve on that, can’t he?

The fact of the matter is this. VD can score 50 TD’s and help lead the 49ers to a SB victory and SOME people will still say . . . yeah but he could’ve improved HERE and THERE.

Fans kill me.

After Cutler left Denver, the fans there lashed out at him: All he does is throw interceptions, they said.

Cutler threw 18 in 2008. A little over one per game. By comparison Drew Brees threw 17 in 2008. Peyton Manning 12.

Any Bronco fan who thinks that Denver went 8-8 in 2008 cause Cutler threw one more INT than Brees and even six more than Manning is delusional. (By comparison John Elway threw 23 INT’s in his third season in Denver)

File this under ‘some people are never satisfied.’

by GeoMak on Nov 15, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Clarification

I think there’s a difference between Peyton Manning occasionally making mistakes and Vernon Davis having a more frequent issue with false starts. I’m not saying Vernon Davis isn’t having a great year because he is. But I’m sorry if I’d like him to avoid stupid penalties that have come up more often with him than many other players. I just want to see him improve in this area of the game. He’s a very good tight end, who is close to becoming an elite tight end. He just needs to improve on the mental mistakes.

by Fooch on Nov 15, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Stupid penalties are the personal foul calls

that caused Mike Singletary to rip him a new one and to start the transformation from VD physical speciman to VD reaching his unlimited penalty.

Nobody is advocating for more false start penalties.

However, when they lead to discussion about ‘lack of football IQ’ (as in the 11-13 2:55 post above) that’s just nonsense.

As I stated above, Orlando Pace is a sure fire HOF’er. In maybe the most critical play (4th & 1) at the end of the Bear/Falcon game as Chicago was going in for the tying score at the end of the game, he make a false start penalty that crippled the Bears.

Pace might not be the same player physically as he once was, but I’m pretty sure his mental faculties are all there.

A HOF LT made a critical false start penalty at the worst possible time, severely hindering his teams chances of scoring.

It happens. It’s football.

VD already, in 9 games, has more TD’s that Dallas Clark (6) and Jason Whitten (4) had ALL of last year. He’s one shy of Antionio Gates’s 8 TD’s in 2008 and three shy of Tony Gonzalez (10) in 2008 in roughly half the games.

He’s cut down or eliminated the stupid, unnecessary personal foul calls from previous seasons. He’s still guilty of the occasional holding and false start penalties as are those on the interior line.

Big deal.

by GeoMak on Nov 15, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, well we now know you are one of the Niner fans who is happy with this mediocre to crappy football we have been watching for the past how many years straight now. With the stupid mistakes killing them every game. Your argument is the same every time. Yes, we know how many TD’s he has and we are all happy about that, it’s a big improvement. But false starts are retarded penalties and shouldn’t happen, HE KNOWS THE COUNT!!

by jonesin25 on Nov 23, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs