Playoff Defense, Pop Warner Offense Handcuff Singletary
by kezarvet on Nov 14, 2009 8:32 AM PST
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PrintI love Mike Singletary. I have been a fan of his since he destroyed opposing offenses when he roamed the field for the Monsters of the Midway. I was thrilled when he was named Head Coach of the San Franciso 49ers and admire his great motivational and leadership qualities. There is no chance the 49ers will ever have a poor defense with Mike at the helm. Offense, on the other hand, appears to be another story.
SINGLETARY COMMENTS ON 49er OFFENSE AFTER BEARS DEBACLE:
"I thought [QB] Alex [Smith] did a good job."
"I thought our offense did what they needed to do in order for us to win the game. Yes, we would have like to have gotten more points, and I think that will come."
"I thought we did a good job running the ball. We felt that we could be effective running the ball, and it showed later on. And, because I felt our defense would do a good job against their offense, it’s the reason that later on in the game we decided to run the ball more and not take a risk in throwing the ball and run some time off the clock and put the game away. And, that’s pretty much it."
With all due respect, Mike, what the hell are you thinking? The offense did not do what they needed to do to win the game. They did everything they could to lose the game and it was only the heads up play of the defense combined with Jay Cutler's horrible performance that barely enabled the Niners to escape with a victory. The play calling makes the word vanilla look radical. It was pathetic, and I am disappointed to know that you think it was good.
Most 49er teams throughout history would have buried the Bears by three or four touchdowns, and Mike, I've seen every 49er team in history. Let's face it, Mike. Alex Smith lacks the natural instincts to be a consistent leader of a team. He doesn't even believe in himself, how do you expect the rest of the team to fall behind your rather transparent praise of him?
As to running the ball, you continued to run the ball because you don't trust Alex Smith and I don't blame you. Come on, Mike, for a man committed to honesty your words of praise about him ring hollow. I realize that you have few choices. Shaun Hill was only a shadow of the leader we came to love the past couple of seasons and Alex Smith will never be more than Alex Smith. A pass is only a risk when you have a mediocre QB throwing the ball.
When the light bulb goes off in your head and you finally admit to yourself that this is true, the 49ers will have hope for the future.
SINGLETARY'S OBVIOUS ALTERNATIVE:
Mike now faces a true dilemma. He has #7 sitting on the bench. Nate Davis is a big kid who can run the spread effectively. He makes quicker decisions than Alex Smith, has a stronger and more accurate arm, is more mobile, and plays with poise and confidence, something Alex has not done in five years. His rocket arm is impressive and with receivers like Crabtree, Morgan, Hill and Jones, this talent is being wasted on the bench.
Naysayers and youthful Niner fans who know nothing about winning or consistency, see Alex Smith as a failed project and blame the team for throwing him in the mix too early. Maybe they are right. They post on various forums that Nate should sit not only this season but next, too. They are scared to death to ruin another QB prospect the way they feel that Smith was ruined. Frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a damn.
Dan Marino, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, and now Josh Freeman, have all benefited from playing in their rookie season. Nate Davis is a man, not a little kid who has to be protected like the current QB. Give him a chance.
PREDICTION:
Mike, if you stick with Alex and your Pop Warner level offense, the playoffs will be out of reach and you will lose the support of many 49er fans who see the potential greatness in Nate Davis, and blame you and Jimmy Raye for the most boring 49er offense in history -- and justifiably so. As it stands now, Mike, you will deserve all the criticism you receive.
Get Nate Davis in there running the spread with Crabtree, Hill, Morgan and Jones, put Bruce out to pasture, and you will create some excitement in San Francisco. Until you do that, your Pop Warner offense will continue to be:
BORING
and the fans continue to wait...
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Nate Davis
He’s not another qb prospect, he’s a nobody. He wasn’t on anybody’s radar as far as I know. Sure I’ve seen a few bit articles proclaiming him as a potential sleeper, but isn’t there one of those for every player?
Now just because he wasn’t on anybody’s radar, doesn’t mean he cant’ be good, but what specifically have you seen in him to earn so much respect. The entirety of the 49ers coaching staff see this kid all day, and they haven’t deemed him ready, and unless they’re all just completely incompetent, that’s good enough in my mind.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
radar
At one point he was projected as a high round pick. He had some struggles late in his final season. He’s definitely not a nobody.
by David Fucillo on Nov 14, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
kesarvet looks like santa
Bengie Molina is the slowest human in existence- except maybe Homer Simpson. And Man-Ram.
by Ramah71 on Nov 14, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong. He was considered a
potential first round draft pick until the media learned he was:
1) dyslexic, and
2) gripped the ball anywhere he could get his hands on it.
He’s not a potential sleeper. He’s a big kid with all the tools.
Here is every pass he has thrown as a 49er, good and bad. Watch his mechanics, his mobility, his poise, and most important, his great arm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIYba7hdg
Kezarvet
Not really
last game where he played a majority of the time (against scrubs none the less) his stats were horrible and the Niners lost 7-26. Lots of over throws and staring down the receivers. Not impressed one bit
you're really pulling for Nate Davis
and Michael Robinson
Bengie Molina is the slowest human in existence- except maybe Homer Simpson. And Man-Ram.
Pondering argument.
Ahhh…. I was just rattling Kezarvet’s cage so he would post some youtube footage to back up his argument as per usual ; )
Well, he does look like a pro out there, & he certainly seems to already have a better touch on medium range passes than both Smith, and Hill. I suppose If he does have talent, I’d still rather he absorbed the playbook for now, and just take some plays if and maybe when we are out of it.
Huh, I guess you are right than. I am afraid he’d get hurt.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
If loss number seven gets here before win number 7 than
Start him, it would at least give him more time to have the offense down. The reason it’s difficult to throw in a QB is because of reps with the first team. Smith and Hill had all of the reps in the offseason and season and Davis does nothing but practice with the 2nd team. That’s where the issue lies and frankly if he is put in you should expect the interceptions and fumbles especially since he is not used to real game speed. He already had to run like a chicken with his head cut off so maybe it will be helpful. No one knows what we have in Davis and I don’t think the time is now. The 49ers as an organization need to know what they have in Smith going forward, it will impact the draft and how this team is built for the future. Davis right now is jumping the gun. The offense isn’t anemic, Singletary influenced Raye’s playcalling to not lose the game simply because the OL doesn’t perform.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
Agree, after 3 1/2 games Smith's upside is mediocrity.
At best he’s Eli Manning . . . fringe top 10 QB with bouts of inconsistency. Still have no clue how Eli won a SB . . . played the best 4 games of his life.
by bignerd on Nov 14, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Davis has potential
And that’s it. He’s in no way shape or form ready to be a starter in this league. He’s not run the offense since pre-season. If we toss him in now we’re looking at an 0-8 record to finish the season.
Should we see what he’s got during the offseason? Sure, unless Alex Smith starts blowing us away by the end of the year.
Should he maybe get some playing time in between now and then? No. Not while we still have a chance of winning games. Right now Shaun Hill is a better backup than Nate Davis would be simply because of the experience.
My thoughts on the matter? Let Alex Smith finish out the season and see what we have in him. By the end of the year we’ll know if he’s our future QB. If he is, great. Then we can develop Davis. If he’s not then we can either draft a QB, or pick one up in FA and let them all compete for the starting job next year.
It’s still way too early for Davis to be playing, no matter how good he might be (and I’m not sold on him being our QB of the future).
Pretty much everything I wanted to say you already wrote
But I’ll add a few points
1. Switching to a third QB after only 9 games is not a good idea. Believe it or not, this is a playoff contending team, and what kind of message does it send to the players if we have another QB change? Instability is not something you want for a team with playoff aspirations
2. Cannon Arm ≠ Good Quarterback. I realize Nate has a great arm, but so what? So do Rex Grossman and Jamarcus Russell, and they’re both terrible. Hell, after thursday’s performance can you honestly say Cutler is even an average QB? Look, Davis is an intriguing QB with some tools. But to say he’s already a good QB is simply incorrect
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 14, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
1+
Brief and simple breakdown, but very good points.
Although under “cannon arm”, you forgot to mention Alex Smith. All season long, fans were clamoring to have Smith replace Hill because of the arm strength difference. Well, 2 full games in, and Smith has only generated 24 total points with that so called “strong arm”. You can have a strong arm all you want, but you won’t be able to make the throws if you lack an accurate arm, and you fold under pressure due to your lack of pocket presence.
I find your sn quite amusing. Very creative indeed.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Haha thanks for the compliment about my sn. I think its more of a result of me being an immature 18 year old than me being creative
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 15, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
eh...
you’ll be headed to college soon enough, if you haven’t already, and pretty soon you’ll grow out of it.
Keep that sn and women will run away from you. hahaha…
I dare you to go to a Giants game next season holding a sign with your sn on it, and in BIG letters… Kruk and Kuip might have a blast (no pun intended), but then again, they might not. Says Kuip, “hahahhahaha, kids. don’t you just luv ’em?” 3 seconds later, and it’s “that’s so wrong, dude. Kruk! eliminate ’em, and get security.”
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 18, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
Of course, they wouldn’t put you on TV if you were holding that sign, but I guess that’s not the point.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 19, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
You left out
poise, confidence, mobility, the ability to take something off his passes and not just throw a rocket every time. the ability to throw accurately across his body, etc. How do you know he is not already a good QB? The psychic network?
Kezarvet
The biggest problem is not the QB, although it is a problem
The problem that has to be fixed first is the play of the OL
I am not sure that it is the OL themselves or the coaching that is the problem. I would say the 49ers need to look into getting a successful OL coach and then also upgrading at RT and LG. Rachal is going to be good.. but he needs the right coach.
We don’t want to throw Nate Davis out there with this OL..the way they are playing.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
yes OL is the problem
not QB Smith looked good
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
We know what we have in Alex...
continuing mediocrity. Bill Walsh prepared Joe Montana the season before he won the Super Bowl in 1981, by playing him a couple of series each week and installing plays he knew would be successful. It was his way of building Joe’s confidence and getting him up to the speed of play.
It’s still too early for Davis why? Because YOU are not sold on him. You are the same guy that is not sold on the greatness of the 1981-1998 Niners either according to a recent post of yours.
Kezarvet
And you still have reading comprehension failure
since I very clearly stated what I meant in that post.
I'm sold on him
But the 2009 49ers are a mediocre team, live with it cause it’s not going to change. They don’t have enough good players on offense to be an upper tier team regardless who plays QB.
If had to rank the top players on the 49ers offense:
Gore
VD
Crabtree
Staley (hurt)
Heitmann
Whoever is QB (Smith/Hill).
The guards are subpar, RT is atrocious, whoever has been #2 WR is been bad (maybe we need to find someone else). The final spot on offense depends on who we put in for the play: Norris, Hill or Walker. When Walker is in the game he’s easily our 6th best offensive player.
Roll out Nate Davis in 2010. He’s has a learning disability, give him the time he requires. Allow the 49ers to add two more good players to the offense. Best reason of all, don’t put him in now when the pressure is high to make the playoffs and the team is behind the proverbial gun . . . why hang the failure on him.
1980 was Montana’s second year in the league.
Even Walsh didn’t throw Montana into the fire in limited action in his rookie season.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 16, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Shula threw Marino into limited action in his rookie season
and he threw for 20 TDs with only 6 INTs, and over 2000 yards.
Roethlisberger threw for over 2600 yards with 17 TDs and 11 INTs.
Flacco threw for just under 3000 yards with 14 TDs and 12 INTs.
If a guy is talented, he can play in his rookie season. Most coaches like to play it conservatively. These guys were lucky they had coached with cojones.
Kezarvet
Nate Davis is not as talented as any of those 3 guys.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
talent
What makes you think that? I’m not saying he’s as talented, but I do think it’s too soon to tell.
by David Fucillo on Nov 16, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Because you're talking about
- One of the 5 best QBs ever
- A potential HOF talent in Big Ben
- One of the best rookie QBs last year
Bottom line, if Nate Davis was even close to as good as those three, he would have beaten out Shaun Hill and Alex Smith for a starting job.
I mean, you could point at his numbers in college and show how awesome he is or something, but he did it against mediocre competition and the only few games he did play against halfway decent schools he didn’t do much of anything. History has shown that aside from a very small number of guys, QBs drafted in the later rounds generally don’t turn out to be that great. Didn’t Florida Danny do a writeup on it? searches
Yup: http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/4/24/851741/a-statistical-look-at-drafting-qbs
By that little graph, Davis ends up in group C (less than 37 starts, 60% completion percentage) putting him up with names like… Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith, along with Rex Grossman, Tim Couch, and Vince Young.
Sure, I could be proven completely wrong and Davis could take over as the starter next year and rip off a string of like 10 straight playoff teams and a couple of SB wins and become one of the best quarterbacks of all time, but I’d say that’s not very likely to happen.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
My point is that we won't
know if he is never given the opportunity. Take Joe Gilliam for example. If you don’t know who he was, enjoy the research. He played his college ball at Tennessee State.
Kezarvet
By the way, I forgot to mention
that Joe Gilliam was drafted in the 11th round. He was replaced as the starter by Terry Bradshaw (many felt unfairly) and the rest is a tragedy.
Kezarvet
Hey kezarvet
I appreciate your retro-spective, however, these guys played in a totally different era. Although it is still football, the game has evolved in many ways since then. 11th round pick WOW!..I do agree you make a great arguement. I like what I see in N.Davis, but he will have his chance again in the off-season to proove himself. That’s what the off-season is about. I would love it if we were to blow a team out, and he could get some garbage time…
Right now, it’s ride or die with the guys from 2005-2008.Smith,Gore,V.Davis, J.Hill,Morgan, D.Walker,Sapoaga,Mcdonald,J.Smith,etc…Let’s have some faith…Talk about how the Packers Rodgers vrs Alex Smith will turn out….Peace…Stelf Bombz
and my point is that
even if Nate Davis is a superior quarterback to Smith and Hill – and he may well be, though the numbers suggest otherwise – then throwing him to the wolves is a huge mistake. What’s to be gained by essentially repeating the Alex Smith situation all over again? Give him some mopup time or something, sure, but there’s nothing to “develop” when he’s taking a snap and getting half a second to get rid of the ball.
Draft/sign an Olineman, get some protection for whoever the QB is gonna be, and go from there.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I'm not talking about throwing him to the wolves.
In 1980, Walsh knew he wanted to start Montana the next season so he would put him in a game for a couple of series with plays designed especially for him to work and give him confidence and a feel for the speed of the game. DeBerg would start and play his game and then Montana would come in for a series or two, then DeBerg would finish up. It worked. We won the Super Bowl in 1981.
Kezarvet
kezarvet, the funny thing is you are not completely wrong,
you just have a style of communicating that is hard for people to listen to, which is why you would not be a very effective coach or a very constructive fan.
Nate Davis is intriguing. His scouting reports suggest a possible upside, a lot of uncertainty and that he definitely would need time to have a chance of success.
Did you ever consider this? Singletary knows exactly what he is doing. He will make the right QB moves at the right time. He sees more than you; he knows more than you. He has no bias toward or against AS or ND. His job is not to entertain you. It does not matter if you, or anyone else, finds the offense boring.
by zacksf on Nov 14, 2009 12:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
you forgot to add at the end
Coach Sing’s job is to guide the 49ers to victories in any way possible, whether those victories look ugly or not.
I think the capture of Coach Sing on the sidelines (after the 5th interception to close the game) said it all. He was jumping up and down, rejoicing with his coaching staff all the while smiling. I don’t think he cared who the QB was. He cared about the win.
Singletary knows exactly what he is doing. He will make the right QB moves at the right time.
I agree. (Although I can’t say the same about Coach Raye.)
Good post, zack.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
agreed (mostly)
the key point at which Kezarvet’s argument breaks down is when he says the following:
your Pop Warner offense will continue to be: BORING
If the Niners win, Singletary is a good coach. Plain and simple. The win against the Bears wasn’t pretty, and it didn’t resemble the 49er victories of old. This is clear. But when you’re building a team that has struggled like the Niners have in the post-Genius era, you take victories like this one.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
+1
Sports aren’t about being pretty, it’s about winning. The San Antonio Spurs were a dynasty from 99-07 despite being arguably the most boring team in the NBA
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 16, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
The ironic thing is:
no friend of Nate Davis would want him to start this year in the chaos behind this offensive line. I will bet you that his agent and family would want him to get his chance next year, rather than now.
The intelligent way to express support for ND is to argue against drafting a QB next year and in favor of drafting Oline. Does that make sense?
by zacksf on Nov 14, 2009 12:58 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well put
Zack. You sound like you would make a great moderator.
Anyway, you make a great point here, and I would have to agree with you in regards to drafting. My bet is that the 49ers will not draft a QB next year. The 4 year contract that Davis signed says it likely won’t happen. This team has too many issues on the line, both offensive and defensive (but more of the former than the latter), and it would be a huge mistake to use a high pick on yet another quarterback. Unless Smith progresses and shows he can really be something special, which I highly, highly doubt, the 49ers will certainly give this Davis kid a shot.
You should’ve packaged your comments about Davis into your own post, entitled “Nate Davis”. That would have gotten a lot more exposure, and with your ability to look at things from a many different perspectives, that would have been a good thing.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
thanks,
and btw, awesome by Morgan on the fumble recovery. That was key and will be appreciated by the coaching staff…
but
the guy has not delivered, and I’m ashamed to have his name as part of my sn.
He has “potential”, but so far, that’s about it. That dropped deep ball against the Rams, and the “slowing down at the end” catch and run against the falcons was horrible.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
The cream will rise to the top.
I would like to ask everyone to moderate their criticisms of both Alex Smith and Nate Davis. These are our guys. Sing knows how/when to handle them and vicious criticism from “fans” is never helpful.
The only alternative we have is to use another “1” and that would suck. I think we all want to see those high picks go for an edge rusher, secondary and Oline help, not necessarily in that order…
Nate Davis
2006 – 18 TDs, 8 Int, 1,975 passing yards, 146.65 passer rating
2007 – 30 TDs, 6 Int, 3,667 passing yards, 139.13 passer rating, 235 rushing yards, 5 rushing TDs
2008 – 26 TDs, 7 Int, 3,445 passing yards, 164.04 passer rating, 312 rushing yards, 5 rushing TDs
I know Shaun Hill is not a future franchise QB for us. I’m 99% sure Alex Smith is not our future franchise QB (I’m granting him that 1% because of Singletary). I’m not convinced Nate Davis is a future franchise star QB.
(posted these on another thread that looks dead now)
The question for this season is when do the Niners start Davis over Smith, if at all?
(1) If Smith throws more than 6 interceptions in the next 3 games?
(2) If Smith throws more than 8 interceptions in the next 3-4 games?
(3) If we lose 2 of the next 3 games?
(4) If we lose 3 of the next 4 games?
I would answer yes to starting Davis to all four of these possibilities. If Alex Smith doesn’t do any of the above, then I guess I could live with starting him for the rest of this season … I guess. Frank Gore and Patrick Willis will need to keep kicking some serious ass though.
"We’ll see them again in the playoffs." - Mike Singletary, right after the Week 3 Minnesota game
I don't agree with your criteria:
I would focus more on when Nate Davis is ready, rather than wins and losses or some other players performance.
Player development takes precedence.
Yes. I would put Hill in again before Davis, until the last couple games.
I still want to see Smith play more.
At this point you at least have to give Smith a shot
If things are going down the tubes, it’s more important to see whether Smith fits into the long term plans. Davis signed a 4 year contract already. He’s here for a while, additionally he’ll be better off coming in next year if he is indeed the guy going forwards. Maybe, maybe if Smith is so terrible and we’re out of the playoff picture by week 17, give Davis a little taste in a meaningless game against the hapless Rams. If Smith is competent, we need to figure out which side of competent he’s on. Having Davis around as a back up plan is not a bad thing. He’ll progress whether or not he’s starting. No need to rush things.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 14, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Nate Davis
From the brief camera shot that I saw of Nate Davis this past Thursday, I’m willing to say that the kid is ready to take on the opportunity if handed to him. I can’t remember what quarter it was, but Alex Smith was near the sidelines getting the plays from one of the 49ers coaches, and Davis, like an eager kid willing to learn, stuck his nose in there and paid attention to what was being relayed to Smith. He peered over the coach’s shoulders and looked at the drawing board that both the coach and Smith were looking at. He had a clipboard in his hands, and was extremely engaged in what was going on. Of course, this was a very brief moment in the game, and many fans would probably caution not to make anything out of it, but sometimes I think little things like that can really tell you something. I honestly can not remember a time when Smith did such a thing while he was the backup to Hill. For a while there, it seemed as though he disappeared off the map.
I don’t think Davis is such a dummy to where he did that just to do it. I think the kid realizes that if he shows Coach Sing that he is eager to learn (by following coaches and actively engaging himself in the game), he’ll get his shot. I think he also realizes that his opportunity will come soon because he looks at both Hill and Smith, and without hesitation, is able to say “I’m better than these two guys.”
Player development indeed takes precedence, but I think Persiflage’s question of when to start Davis is a valid one. If the season is more than lost, for instance (e.g. the 49ers are mathematically out of the playoff picture), you should put in Davis and groom him.
His play in the preseason seems to hint strongly at it his readiness, as well. Look at the youtube clip that Kezarvet provided. Pay attention to his pocket presence (there were two specific plays where Davis avoided the pass rush, stood strong in the pocket instead of running outside, and delivered a nice throw to a receiver. See 2:59 & 6:40). Also, pay extra attention to some of the plays where he scrambled outside. Look at his left arm. You’ll notice a “get-the-hell-outta-my-face-I’m-here-to-make-a-play” swipe of his left arm at the defender rushing towards him (see :26, :43 or :53 for the replay). It almost looks like he wants to stiff arm someone for invading his space. Yes, it’s very subtle, and I’m paying attention to such a minor little detail, but that’s what you call attitude, and attitude is what you need in a QB. Left arm aside, there were other plays that I thought were exemplary of his toughness where, in spite of the pocket breaking down, he just stood in there, looked down field, and got the ball out on time. That’s poise… that’s composure…
Zack. Although I don’t agree with everything that Kezarvet says in his post, I really think this kid is ready. He wasn’t drafted outta Ball State for nothin’. The kid is a "Ball"er. :)
That was my weak attempt at humor there.
For more indications of his readiness. Check out some of his college highlights, including commentary, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADWD0wTwzcU (vs. Miami)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohs_ta9BT24&feature=related (vs. CMU)
I was really impressed, particularly, with the play against Miami where he pump faked to his right, and because the pocket was breaking down, scrambled quickly to his left, to throw to the same receiver he pump faked to. That’s what you call athleticism.
Surely, I’m reading too much into this, and someone should stop me, but I like to think that the kid is more than ready. I’ve always placed a high priority on quarterbacks who have pocket presence. And I’m talkin’ about shuffling your feet, moving around the pocket and UTILIZING your offensive line to buy more time (e.g. if the DE beats a lineman and is circling around to try and get you, you as the QB can move inside a little to buy more time because by doing so, that same DE will have to stop and redirect his angle, and this almost always allows your lineman to regroup and catch up to that lineman, thus giving you more time. Get it, Alex?). Davis looks like he has this “pocket presence”.
In response to “Singletary’s obvious alternative”… I say put the kid in if, and when, the season is lost.
(whew! I’m glad I got that off my chest. This is so much better than screaming and insulting someone.)
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You should specify that your first link is vs Miami of Ohio and not the real Miami :)
Davis never did anything that great against a big school in college. The biggest game he played was when they got destroyed by Buffalo in the MAC championship last year, and then followed that up with another buttkicking at the hands of Tulsa in the GMAC bowl.
Smith ran the table with Utah in 04 and won a BCS Bowl.
Honestly I don’t see how chewing up a bunch of subpar MAC defenses makes Davis more ready for the NFL than Alex Smith was the year after going undefeated in the MWC.
That’s not to say that Davis won’t be a competent quarterback some day, but it’s not now, and it’s a pretty severe case of Shiny New Toy Syndrome that’s causing so many people to want Davis starting.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Mikev
“Shiny New Toy Syndrome”… I’ve never heard that one before. But it makes sense, it’s kinda funny, and I think you’re right.
But if you read it over again, the points I made weren’t taking into account the level of competition that he played against in college, or in the 2009 NFL preseason. I was just trying to point out the dude’s skillsets by providing some visual in-game evidence there. Miami of Ohio or the “real” Miami, as you put it, or any other school whether strong or weak, is irrelevant (and I apologize for not naming the schools properly. I’m not a college football buff. I only pay attention to pro sports).
Those same shuffling of the feet, side stepping defenders, scrambling abilities, and overall pocket presence would still be there against a top flight team or a mediocre team. Those skills aren’t just going to disappear (Garcia’s scrambling ability showed up to every game regardless of the competition). Again, I was just trying to point out the kid’s skillset.
Fans wonder why Smith’s college success couldn’t translate to the NFL, and to me the answer couldn’t be more obvious! Smith operated from the shotgun spread offense in college, which we all know, but what many fans seemingly fail to realize and acknowledge is that he was protected really well in college. How does a QB handle pressure? Does he rise to the occasion, or does he fold? Can he improvise?! Can he avoid the rush, look down field, and make a successful throw all at the same time, and on a consistent basis? Those are the real questions in evaluating a quarterback. I think the 49ers overestimated Smith’s college #s, and was duped even more when he turned in a high wonderlic test. “Oh, the kid is so smart, he graduated with a 4.0 and in only 3 years! His intelligence is bound to translate onto the field. DUNLEAVY for the win!!!”
Anyway, thanks for the response.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
The thing is, it kinda wouldn't.
There’s such a gigantic difference in the skill levels of big colleges vs small schools that you have to take that into consideration. By and large, the BCS conferences get the best players.
Basically, there’s a reason Davis was a 5th round pick.
However, this is exactly what I was talking about:
Those same shuffling of the feet, side stepping defenders, scrambling abilities, and overall pocket presence would still be there against a top flight team or a mediocre team. Those skills aren’t just going to disappear (Garcia’s scrambling ability showed up to every game regardless of the competition). Again, I was just trying to point out the kid’s skillset.
This is just not true. Again I’ll point to Smith. Smith was a great college quarterback and he’s done precisely zilch as a pro. That’s because the defenders are so much bigger/stronger/faster in the NFL. Heck, even the 3rd string guys that he (Davis) did well against in the preseason aren’t even close to what he’d see if he were thrown into the fire now.
Also, how is it that you only pay attention to pro sports but you know Smith was protected really well in college? :-)
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I’m trying to enjoy my sandwich here before the Warriors’ game, but I’ll respond.
I guess I really was reading too much into Davis there, and you should have stopped me. Where were you? It’s all your fault, dude.
I’m assuming when you quoted me, you really meant to single out the part where I say, “those skills aren’t just going to disappear”. Pardon me for quoting myself there. But it’s just an opinion of mine, I suppose. I truly believe that if you have those skills I mentioned, which I think Davis possesses, then it’s going to translate to the field eventually. Again, pay extra attention to the kind of skills that I’m talking about here. I’m not talking about whether or not a QB can stay in the pocket, untouched, and deliver a nice pass to a receiver down field. If that was the case, than yes, you can say that Smith has not been successful because the defenders in the NFL are so much bigger/stronger, and they blow up the 49ers o-line, thereby preventing Smith from showcasing his talent, which is to throw the ball when given protection. The skills I’m referring to are strictly about improvising in the game. I’m just trying to say that Davis has these improv skills. That’s all.
Smith didn’t show any of those skills in college, and instead was playing untouched most of the time, as is usually the case with many other successful college quarterbacks. It’s because the o-line provides time for the QB to throw, and opens up lanes for the RB. I think that’s why quarterbacks throw so many TDs, and teams score so many points in college.
And when I said I’m not a football buff, I just meant that I don’t keep up with it in the same manner that I do with the NFL (there’s too many teams, and too many bowls, and… well just too complicated. Plus, players are always leaving so you can’t really develop a genuine interest in any one player/team). I actually do watch the games every now and then. I like to watch my Cal Bears (my actual school) when they’re not sucking, and I actually kept up with the team a lot when Lynch and Jackson were both there. I also watch teams like Florida because Tebow is unbelievable good; Oregon because that tiny little quarterback reminds me of a smaller version of Mike Vick, etc, etc. I also catch my highlights of the games on sportscenter, and I notice that the successful teams are usually successful because the QB sits in the pocket and is given time to deliver a “nice” throw to an extremely wide open receiver down field.
I know Smith was protected well based on what I mentioned above, the film that was introduced to me prior to him being drafted in ‘05, and in addition the various clips I was able to gather on line. Tell me Smith made a name for himself in college by scrambling, avoiding the rush all the time, and making all kinds of throws amidst oncoming pressure, and I’ll stop this conversation now and say that “Smith hasn’t been able to succeed because of various circumstances not related to his skills.” But can fans honestly tell me that? I don’t think so. We all know he was successful because he was protected well, and didn’t have to improvise much, if at all. Show me visual evidence to the contrary.
thanks again for the response, man. I appreciate your arguments. And thanks for not being an a$$ about it (something I see a lot here, to my surprise).
I apologize for the long response. It’s just how I communicate.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 14, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
No worries.
I just don’t believe Davis is so much more elusive and athletic than Smith that he would be any better than Smith is now.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
He makes quicker decisions
which enable him to get the ball to the receiver on time. Alex refuses to throw the ball until his receiver breaks which is why most of his passes are late. Davis throws the ball before the break, anticipating where the receiver will be. This talent alone makes Davis a more solid choice.
Kezarvet
You may be right
but from what I’ve seen on film and on live games on t.v., it sure “looks” as though Davis is superior to Smith in terms of elusiveness and athleticism.
Thanks once more for the response.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 18, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
There’s such a gigantic difference in the skill levels of big colleges vs small schools that you have to take that into consideration. By and large, the BCS conferences get the best players.
I think Boise State, TCU, Utah, BYU, Houston, etc. would all like a word with you.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 16, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, I'm a big fan of the BCS busters
I root hard for them every year, but aside from Boise and Utah none of those teams have done anything worth mentioning.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
You are just the kind of fan the BCS schools like. 90% of them never do anything to deserve a mention on a given season but they are plastered all over the place.
What does that even mean?
I think the BCS is stupid and needs to go away. It’s pretty sad that college FB is the only sport that doesn’t crown a champion on the field.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Respect the small schools
I root hard for them every year, but aside from Boise and Utah none of those teams have done anything worth mentioning.
They don’t mention them because the system is setup not to mention them. Teams like Utah and Boise have to climb mountains even to get into the national discussion. Florida, Alabama and Texas play Division II schools than stack their conference match ups with 2 possible hard games, favorably at home.
I know, but I think we're arguing the same point.
Boise gets the shaft because nobody wants to play them. They beat the crap out of Oregon this year but can’t get any really big non-conference games. TCU is probably one of the better teams in college FB this year, but unless all 3 of Texas, Alabama, and Florida end up with a loss, there’s really no chance they play for the national title.
It’s a joke. Unless you run the table AND there’s no undefeateds from a big conference AND the rankings don’t think any of the 1 loss teams are better, then maybe you get some consideration.
Just put a playoff in place and settle it on the field already.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
HE PLAYED FOR BALL STATE
so maybe you should not quote college stats at us. I also note you don’t mention his 56% completion rate in 2007.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I still question the wisdom of putting a rookie in front of this offensive line,
but I am keeping an open mind. His (ND’s) scouting report is really interesting and certainly indicates no limit on his upside.
This is real, not just x’s and o’s, and in my mind playin’ with that oline is scary and not a good idea. If Coach Sing does it, i am behind it 100%. Until then, I am against it 100%.
Speaking of Nate Davis
did anyone else notice him Thursday holding the clipboard? Last week we saw Shaun Hill doing the clipboard duties. Even though Davis was listed as the number 3 guy and inactive this may be signalling a desire by the coaching staff to get him more familiar with the offense.
SMITH & DAVIS the new MONTANA & YOUNG
l surely agree with you about Coach Mike!!! l know that us Niners fans are too demanding.Building a team of winners requires patience (which us fans really don’t have.)This is coach Mike’s first full season in charge (not his 5th or 10th season),so he too is maturing also with the team.We all know he is great on the DEFENSIVE side of the game, and the 49ers are doing very good in that department.
The OFFENSIVE, is another story, which Gary you’ve rightly mentioned.We do have the Fire Power There.Coach Mike, said that he wanted an offensive co-ordinator (Raye), who believes in the RUNNING Game.Unfortunately,this plan after a couple of games did not WORK-OUT, as teams picked up our game plan easily.The O-LINE is not strong, especially on the Right Hand Side.Which needs to be addressed in the 2010 Draft (alongside the secondary in Defense)!!!
QUARTERBACKS – This will always be a 49ERS Fans discussion for the next Hundred Years.Having Had MONTANA & YOUNG to set the trend for this franchise.This is what drives the team!!!! l believe that ALEX SMITH, is the person to Groom. A first round draft pick.He has shown us he is made of metal,having started as a rookie and crashed out,but stayed in the race and built up.l strongly believe that the problem is more to do with the OFFENSIVE CALLING,by the OFFENSIVE CO-ORDINATOR & that our PLAY-BOOK is very Easy to De-Code-Crabtree has proved that!!! NATE DAVIS, is the future,and definately must be NURTURED,and safe guarded.l believe we’ve got the 3 QB’S We need for the forseeable future.What we need is TEAM-BUILDING & BLENDING,especially in the Offense.
What l feel, if us 49ers should be true to ourselves -We DON’T DESERVE PLAY-OFF spot this 2009/2010 season.The NFC has shown to have worthier opponents for the Championship e.g. SAINTS,VIKINGS,FALCONS (They practically hammered us).We should forget about making it to the play-offs this year,if we do -will accept it as a BONUS.What we need to do ,with the last games is build on the Offensive Side,especially ALEX SMITH.With the last 3-5 games l believe Nate Davis she be slowly given game time,and add more as he progresses (like the plan for Crabtree), and maybe be the Starting QB for the last 2 games!!!! In a nutshell, SMITH & DAVIS could be the MONTANA,YOUNG of the future,and we still need HILL too!!
Finally, this is a bitter pill to swallow- We might need to give RAYE the final verdict,after the season has ended,maybe DEMOTE him to RUNNING BACKS Coach (Running Game Side), & Bring in a new OFFENSIVE CO-ORDINATOR who would not tamper,with the ‘Work In Progress’.
But this is wishful thinking.This is a business!!The franchise owners would like a spot in the play-offs immediately,like the rest of the fans!!!!
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