Charles Woodson/Al Harris vs. Michael Crabtree/Josh Morgan? Well then...
by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Nov 17, 2009 1:30 PM PST
in News
58 comments
The Packers have struggled to maintain some semblance of consistency this season. They're 5-4 this season, but their biggest win to date was last week at home against the Cowboys. They've beaten bad teams, but have struggled getting over the hump against good teams (sound familiar?). However, at first glance, I can think of one that would appear to be consistent: they've got some bad mother-[site decorum] cornerbacks in Charles Woodson and Al Harris.
Woodson has 5 interceptions and Harris has two interceptions, while the rest of their secondary has thrown in eight more for good measure. This is a secondary filled with playmakers. Playmakers that could make Alex Smith look very bad this Sunday. Ignoring the rushing game for a minute, I think it's safe to say this secondary inspires a bit of fear in most people. Throw in the fact that the 49ers will be starting a rookie and a second year wide receiver and lord knows how this would potentially turn out.
At the same time, for the FO supporters in the house, that 9th ranked pass defense might be a bit misleading. FO ranks teams against the various potential receivers, including running backs. Green Bay ranks 26th against #1 receivers and 21st against #2 receivers. Against all other wide receivers they're 2nd, they're 5th against tight ends, and they're 6th against running backs. Intriguing to say the least.
Michael Crabtree and Josh Morgan aren't exactly your prototypical #1/#2 wide receivers, primarily due to their lack of experience in the NFL. Crabtree is proving himself to be a real talent, but each week we see some new area where he clearly has to improve. But again, he is a rookie after all, so these things are expected. As for Josh Morgan, the former 6th round pick has had a bit of a roller-coaster ride thus far in his short NFL career. Some weeks he looks like a stud playmaker, while other weeks he can barely get out of his own way. His blocking skills have been quite solid, but obviously most folks are looking for a bit more out of him than that.
I took a quick look at the Packers matchups each week to see if any numbers jumped out. In looking through all their games, Brett Favre's 271 yard, 3 touchdown passing performance week 4 is probably the best performance thus far. In that game, Bernard Berrian had 75 yards and a TD and Sidney Rice had 70 yards and a TD. Percy Harvin had 2 receptions for 39 yards and no touchdowns, although I'm not sure what WR he was considered in that game (I think #3?). It doesn't tell us much but I figured it was worth noting.
I've posted the Packers 2009 box scores after the jump for those who want to snoop around a bit more. Some of the quality receivers in the NFL (Ochocinco, R. Williams, Hester) have put up solid numbers. In the second Vikings game, Percy Harvin was actually the leading Vikings receiver with 84 yards, while Berrian was second at 47 yards. Not so surprisingly, the Lions, Rams and Browns all had pretty poor performances from their wide receivers.
I'd like to be more confident heading into this weekend, but I tend to think it really will take a bit of a breakthrough performance from Alex Smith for the 49ers' wide receivers to put up quality numbers. Of course, it'd be pretty sweet if this was the game where Alex Smith really broke out as an NFL quarterback.
Does anybody feel even a little bit comfortable with the wide receiver-cornerback matchups this week?
Week 1 - Chicago @ GB
Week 2 - Cincinnati @ GB
Week 3 - GB @ St. Louis
Week 4 - GB @ Minnesota
Week 6 - Detroit @ GB
Week 7 - GB @ Cleveland
Week 8 - Minnesota @ GB
Week 9 - GB @ Tampa Bay
Week 10 - Dallas @ GB
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Well...
It depends on whether Smith has time to throw, or doesn’t telegraph where he will throw it to, won’t it?
Well, we're waiting....
I think our best out best two receivers of the game will be to gore out the back field n v.Davis. With the experience and talent of GB corners and the inconsistancy of smith we should keep the ball away from the. As much as possible, not saying completely or to he to conservative but..I just see Davis having a good game and we already know gore can be our go to guy.
by Living49rLegend on Nov 17, 2009 1:59 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Lots of typos. sorry I’m on the blackberry
by Living49rLegend on Nov 17, 2009 2:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
+1
I don’t care how good a corner you are. Covering VD isn’t a corner’s job…I’m not sure it’s suited for anyone actually.
For that, and the fact they like to drop Kampman in coverage for some reason…I agree that Gore/VD and maybe to a lesser extent, Delanie Walker will have some key receptions.
I was just gonna say
Work Davis on th eopposite side of Kampman since Walker can eat him alive. We aslo will need help blocking on the left which appeared to be the strong side of their blitzing. Gore out of the backfield and pump n go routes, these corners are aggressive and can be burnt if the protection holds the blitz. We should see some screens to Gore and Hill deep out of the slot for 6.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I can see getting crabtree in the game early with the screens and quick passes like we saw early in the last game..
Let him get his first td
by Living49rLegend on Nov 17, 2009 2:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hope not, Dallas looked stupid trying it.
The CB’s play right up the WR face for most of the game. They aren’t going to give up any screens, hitches or quick passes because the CB’s aren’t backed up in coverage. Ask Dallas, they did it all game (for no logical reason) and there WR got tackled at the line of scrimmage.
Pump fake and burn em deep early then it will open the O up.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Awful Match Up
49ers couldn’t handle the Bears bump and run coverage last week and Green Bay does the same thing, except with NFL caliber CBs. Morgan didn’t come close to getting open the entire game. Crabtree could beat the bump but the Bears figured this out and rolled a safety towards him the 2nd half negating him from the game.
Even worse, both Woodson and Harris make their living jumping the out routes which seems to be 60% of our WR playbook.
49ers better play conservative and pick their spots in the passing game. Probably better to reverse this strategy against the Packers. Dre Bly is very good a jumping inside routes and slants so let Dre be Dre and hope he makes a big play or two. Play conservative, hold the score down and hope to win the game off Green Bay turnovers.
That's how I beat them in Madden
I only attempted 10 passes (completed 8).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 17, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
Biggest challenge of the season
For the receivers and QB. I certainly hope they’re up to it but that is huge “doubtful” going in. Seems they can do more in this matchup to lose the game than win it, by throwing INTs and tons of incomplete passes. Maybe it’s time to feature Davis, Walker and Gore, then play solid defense? Low scoring win seems to be the best option.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Run the ball!!!!
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 17, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Does anyone know how good their run defense is..? What other backs racked up against them?
by Living49rLegend on Nov 17, 2009 3:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
After doing a little research I found that GB bs only allowed. Two Rbs to rush for 100 plus yards the first being C.Benson who went 29/141 and Steven Jackson for 27/117 n both games against MIN they held Peterson under 100 (25/97 & 25/55) but being that gore is a beast I day give him the rock 25+ plus and we can run it very well and open up the play action.
by Living49rLegend on Nov 17, 2009 4:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's a big question mark
Dallas didn’t even make an effort to run the ball against them last week and they have an excellent run game. It’s hard for me to say Dallas was afraid to run the ball because ever since Jason Garrett became the offensive coordinator they have 2-3 games a year where they make no logical effort to run the ball.
Against Minnesota the Packers stacked the box with 8/9 defenders to stop Peterson. They did fairly well but Favre torched them in both games.
The rest of the Packers games have come mostly against the bottom offenses in the league.
From a non-stat standpoint you look at the roster and ask who is there really to worry about. They have studs at CB, but no one the front seven has proven to be scary.
Peterson still had over 100 yards rushing
the second game. They’ve played extremely poor rushing teams.
Rushing stats
Win vs Chicago—86 yards total rushing (55 for Forte)
Lose vs Cincy—151 total yards rushing (141 for Cedric Benson)
Win vs St. Louis—149 total rushing yards (117 for Jackson)
Lose vs Minnesota—63 total rushing yards (55 for Peterson)
Win vs Detroit—78 total rushing yards (61 for K. Smith)
Win vs Cleveland—58 total rushing yards (47 for J. Lewis)
Lose vs Minnesota—111 yards rushing (97 for Peterson)
Lose vs Tampa Bay—81 yards rushing (C. Williams 56)
Win vs Dallas—61 yards rushing (26 for Barber)
Looking at that I’d say that their rushing defense numbers are inflated. They’ve played against terrible teams (Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa Bay, St. Louis), against a team that wanted to beat them through the air (Minnesota), and against Dallas who decided to run the ball only 14 times).
The only team they played with any kind of a running game was Cincy and they gave up 141 yards to Cedric Benson
Bengals
The more that the Niners emulate both sides of the ball with the Bengals’ game plan the more likely they win. Cincinnatti did very well that game and only hurt themselves with INTs. Their defense and running game really dominated GB. I don’t expect the Niners to score 31 points but if they can duplicate the strategy they won’t need to to win this game.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Dallas seemed to be able to run but they are pass happy
When you pass heavy you’re playing to their strength (at least at this point in the season) We have to pick up blitzes and burn them. We should have more 3WR sets EVERY WEEK. Gore has his TD run and he had several lanes out of that formation, 9ers need to wake up. We can run out of the 3 wide.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
3WR
Will Brandon Jones get his first catch this week? And when/if he finally does catch a pass, will it be 20+ yards down the field as the deep threat he was advertised to be?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
??
Isn’t Hill a better deep threat? Jones was added since the team didn’t think Crabtree would fall to them, and he also is the return man, and a bad one at that.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I would think so
He’s supposed to have excellent speed. Certainly has the hands. I just find it odd that a big free agent signing has zero catches after nine games. The only time he has touched the football is a bad punt returner which was obviously a emergency plan.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Delanie Walker too
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 17, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
WR's on Corners
I really like Delanie Walker in this game.
As for Morgan, he’s far more capable of getting separation than Bruce, and I wouldn’t underestimate Crabtree.
Hill should be starting...not Morgan.
Morgan’s a 3rd WR at best…
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
i was thinking that too
though Morgan made a great play on the fumble recovery. Coaches appreciate that.
Morgan is a better blocker
Remember that fumble recovery?
He was blocking down the field so he was in a position to recover.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 17, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions
It doesn't matter who guards Morgan...
…He’ll be shut out either way (as usual).
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
run the shotgun, spread the wrs out n hand it off to gore and let him do what he does best.
by Living49rLegend on Nov 17, 2009 4:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
VD and Gore gotta come thru
they need to pull the linebackers in and give WRs some room to break off their routes. I think their CBs will not respect our pass game, thats where Crabs, Hill and Morgan gotta break some ankles. Cut n Go son!!
NINERS 4 LIFE
V. Davis Vs. Woodson will be the match up to watch!
Leave it to a Packer’s fan, ofcourse to point out that Vernon Davis will not be covered by Linebackers. Woodson will most likely be covering him. The reason why some of the other teams No. 1 or No. 2 WR is getting alot of yards is because Woodson is covering TEs and shutting them down. Ask Witten. The Packers are very good at taking away the quarterback primary option. Roy Williams had a good game but the Cowboys lost. Miles Austin and Jason Witten is what leads to the points for the Cowboys. The 49ers will have a tough day against the Packers the match ups are fovorable for the Packs D.
makes sense
Woodson is pretty physical.
If he covers Vernon that might open things up for Crabtree.
Overall, I agree, these are tough matchups for us. They have a strong secondary.
they talked about this on NFL matchup. you can beat these corners really easily with double move routes and pump fakes. It was 1 in the morning when I watched it and I was drunk and high, so I don’t remember many specifics but a receiver ran about 6 yards up and cut in and looked like he was going to receive a pass with the corner a little deep on him. The QB pump faked, the receiver cut up the field and the corner completely bit on it. QB threw to a wide open receiver and it was a big play.
we don't usually run those plays
because we can’t count on sustaining a pocket long enough (oline). If they junp the short routes it could be a long day… or a day for a lot of Gore.
Kind of why I wanted Bruce to play a little more
We’ll see though…
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 17, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
How do we beat the Packers?
We need to run away from Jenkins since Kampman is gone and Jenkins is their best DL. We need to use Davis on post in and out and let our WR’s get open on drag routes and quick slants. Keep Davis working toward sidelines on short passes utilize double moves and pump fakes when we use max pro. We can catch them in a lot of PI if we use it correctly and we are going to have to make them get away from what they want to do which is press. 2nd and 2 and 2nd and 3 (and shorter) We have to utilize the play fake. The 2WR 2TE with Morgan in motion for the run needs to be discarded for the season. When we use the two TE set we need to see Davis lined up on Jenkins side to occupy their better LB’s and let Walker embarass a safety or 2nd strig LB or take the better tacklers away from line of scrimmage. Hopefully Smith throws no more than 20-25 times. We ahve to get the most sacks of the season and limit the outside blitzes from DB’s, they have 3wr that can kill us. We honestly need to have great pressure with 4 or 5 rushers or we will be toast.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
And minimize the false starts and unsportsmanlike penalties
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I want to see some CB blitzes
Aaron Rodgers doesn’t pay attention to pressure coming from the outside.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 17, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
Just some clarifications for you Niners fans
1. Aaron Kampman will play this week.
2. Woodson will probably cover V Davis, and Al Harris will cover Crabtree, most of the time.
3. Packers may play Nickel all game long (or most of it). They sometimes play 5 backers though, too.
4. The Packers D-line is BIG. There’s only 3, but they weigh like 4. Ryan Pickett, Cullen Jenkins and Johnny Jolly, plus the 1st rounder BJ Raji in rotation.
5. The backers are 3 first rounders (Barnett & Hawk inside, and Clay Matthews outside) and Kampman.
My point is this is a serious Defense, and nobody has really run on the Packers this year except for CIncinnati and Chicago. And Chicago could run because the Packers threw the kitchen sink at Jay Cutler with blitzes. Good luck.
I think those saying your defense needs to show up are right, and a conservative gameplan that keeps you in the game will be the thing. Oh, and the Packers special teams are far from special, so if you got game there, you might take advantage of the Pack’s lameness. That’s how Tampa beat the Pack.
by dubaipackerfan on Nov 17, 2009 11:54 PM PST reply actions
I like all these for the 49ers
2. Woodson will probably cover V Davis, and Al Harris will cover Crabtree, most of the time.
Woodson can go ahead and try to cover VD. He lines up as TE most of the time and VD doesn’t get open running routes. He just puts his body on the defender or catches a jump ball in traffic. Both of which does not favor Woodson.
3. Packers may play Nickel all game long (or most of it). They sometimes play 5 backers though, too.
The issue with the 49ers running game has been too many rush defenders on the defense. The reason for switching to a more WR set offense was to get those defenders off the field for Gore.
4. The Packers D-line is BIG. There’s only 3, but they weigh like 4. Ryan Pickett, Cullen Jenkins and Johnny Jolly, plus the 1st rounder BJ Raji in rotation.
Excellent, our fat slow linemen cannot get in front of anyone to make a block. They might actually get use their size and strength this week.
Taking away your best threat(s)
Standard operating procedure in the NFL. Packers weren’t beat by Adrian Peterson because they schemed to take that away first. They did get beat by Favre hitting his receivers non-stop.
My guess is the Packers D will have 3 goals.
1. Contain Gore. – They can stop the run this year.
2. Cover VD. – They covered Witten real well last week. Yes Vernon Davis is special, but if he gets doubled or zoned with Woodson (who is fast enough and smart enough to play him right) and LB Chillar, who is a decent sized, fluid backer with prety good coverage skills (best cover LB on the Packers), I think they will have some success taking him off his game.
3. Confuse Smith with ridiculous blitzes. QBs without time to throw don’t play too well.
If am SF, I am thinking how can I keep those 3 things from happening.
by dubaipackerfan on Nov 19, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Green Bay has the #1 defensive DVOA (Niners are #2!)
So I imagine it will be a rough go for the offense in general. I think they’ll need to have a low scoring game to pull this one out, with probably at least 3-4 sacks of Rodgers and maybe a big special teams play for once (the Niners special teams are bad, but GB’s are the worst in the NFL).
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 18, 2009 2:56 AM PST reply actions
If the 49ers have a chance..
It will be due to ST and Defense. The offense is regressing into a morass of fail.
Well, we're waiting....
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