Jimmy Raye - Ken Whisenhunt
by GeoMak on Nov 18, 2009 7:17 PM PST
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PrintKen Whisenhunt became the HC of the Arizona Cardinals in 2007. He was kind of a hot property after being the OC of the Super Bowl winning Pittsburgh Steelers of 2005. Landing in the desert he inherited players like Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. This is not a misprint. He inherited those guys. Three of the best at their perspective positions in the NFL.
Whisenhunt went 8-8 in his first season in Arizona. The Cardinals averaged 25.2 points per game.
Jimmy Raye is in his first full season with the 49ers. He didn't come close to inheriting guys like Warner, Boldin & Fitzgerald. Currentlly the 49ers are averaging 20.4 points per game.
The difference (right now) between the hot OC and his three studs, as opposed to the OC nobody wanted and all of his question marks at the QB and WR position is 4.8 points per game. Less than two FG's.
In today's Arizona Republic there is an excellent article about how much more Whisenhunt can do with his offense in his THIRD season, as opposed to his FIRST.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/11/17/20091117cardsinsider1118.html
Here's one quote from the article:
In his third year with the Cardinals, Whisenhunt and his offensive staff can make those adjustments at the last minute, something he wouldn't have dared to try in his first season
Really. It's well worth reading. It's something to keep in mind as people constantly bash Jimmy Raye.
He's had less than a season with his offense. Perspectve. It's really a beautiful thing.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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The 49ers..
Should have given Hostler one more year. He didn’t have anybody either.
Well, we're waiting....
Not this again....
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Nov 20, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
The girl can't help it...
She needs more…
She hasn’t found what she’s looking for…
Well, we're waiting....
What is that?
Michael Jackson… I always knew you were weird but whoa!!
Someone get the straight jacket…. drummer fianlly went off the deep end.
I'm currently roaming...
Inside your head. Lot’s of room in here. Nice Fathead of Alex Smith with a “SUCKS” written across it too. Must have been something you made before Hill got benched.
What’s this? Spreadsheets dating back ten years? Dude, once more, Fooch is not a Nazi, but a 49er fan.
Sometimes I wonder how a grown man like yourself can obsess over posters here. I have my own Stockholm victim in youse. One would call that “Ultimate ’Bode” in owning your ass, but I throw little fish back into the water.
Grow strong little guppy.
Well, we're waiting....
defense
I looked it over and the defense is responsible for 28 points (4 touchdowns and the ensuing extra points). Take those away and it’s a field goal less.
by David Fucillo on Nov 18, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
You're looking too far into the numbers...
Remember, it’s all about perspective. ; )
Well, we're waiting....
The defense has been worth more than that
Those are just direct points, what about all of the 3-and-outs and turnovers they’ve caused to give the offense good field position?
The Cards had a -2.7% offensive DVOA in 2007 and the Niners have a -12.9% offensive DVOA in 2009, so their offense was significantly better. This year the Cards are 9th at 17.7%, so they’ve obviously improved a lot since then. What this says about Wisenhunt and Raye I don’t know, but the Niners offense is still inadequate.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 19, 2009 3:34 AM PST up reply actions
Even with all of those INT's..
Last game, the offense still couldn’t capitalize on them either.
I forgot where I read this, but Raye’s recent track record was that one area of his offense will improve one year, and then regress into his second. He then winds up without a job.
Well, we're waiting....
GeoMak you're preaching to the choir
IF there’s a reason to keep Jimmy Raye, it’s so that there will be continuity. I’m ready to get off the ‘new-OC-every-year’ rollercoaster/merry-go-round. Because the last few go-rounds have made me pretty nauseous. In fact, I wouldn’t have been against keeping Martz and said as much at the time for exactly this reason. After Singletary took over, the team was more run-oriented and more successful—and that wasn’t just because Shaun Hill took over at QB.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
This.
Even if Raye may leave some to be desired, I think continuity is a VERY important thing. It’d be nice if the 49ers can finally take a step in that direction. I don’t think Raye’s been totally a fail. If he had anything remotely resembling an average offensive line, things may even be a little more different (in a positive way, of course).
'Perspectve'
‘Jimmy Raye is a coach mired in relative mediocrity as he hasn’t led anything that can be labeled as electrifying on offense.’
http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/commentary/view.php?id=717
Shaun and Alex ~ A Commitment to Mediocrity
His most talented QB
Elvis Grbac…lol
His most talented RB Stephen Davis (twighlight years)
Best WR- M Crabtree
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
You say the difference is only 4.8 pts a game -
But 4.8 pts a game is a lot.
It’s nearly 25% more scoring than we’ve had so far.
Now, I happen to agree with you that people are jumping all over Raye without understanding his talent limitations. On the other hand, I don’t really feel like he’s distinguished himself, either.
But remember, people want easy choices about who to blame.
5 years of ScotM...
and the 49ers still have limitations on offense? Raye’s current track record is very underwhelming, and though the 49ers still have problems at QB, Raye isn’t the answer for the future considering the offense is still a mish mash of whatever he thinks can work. It’s another version of Hostler, albeit with tons more experience. That’s bad.
Well, we're waiting....
Raye = Hostler?
Are you kidding me?
Under Hostler, we were last in the team in scoring offense, and now we’re 21st. But that understates how bad we were then, beceause not only were we last, but look at how much we were in last place by:
we were in last place in yrds/game by 40 yards a game. If the 31st (second-to-last) place team had gotten 40 more yards a game, they would have been around 20th in the league. That’s how bad we were.
Also, our team didn’t have basic NFL staples like hot reads on blitzes, which is flat-out on the O.C., so you can’t jsut blame the personelle.
Hostler was horrid...
But he was very green, unprepared, and had zero experience with a bad offensive squad. Raye has better talent, but it’s still a mish mash of play calls that are only effective in spurts. Really, the offense should not be as bad as it is now, especially when you consider that Raye has over 20 years in experience, and the numbers reflect spurts of offense as opposed to an offense that is consistent each game.
Raye is the OC for only a couple of reason: he was the only guy willing to take this job, and Singletary didn’t want a younger guy. I don’t see much vision with Raye. The offense is getting worse with better players on the field.
Well, we're waiting....
Better players on the field?
Like Barry Simms over Adam Snyder?
For an offense to be around 20th in the league when you have one of the worst offensive lines in the league says that the coaching is doing something right.
THe early-season criticisms of Raye were that he ran too much and he was too predictable. Both of those criticisms have been blasted out of the water. The offense needs to produce more, no question, but there aren’t obvious quick-fixes with this squad.
:coffee:......
I think I just spit up a whole cup of it watching this putrid offense today.
Go ahead and believe what you want though.
Well, we're waiting....
We had a below-average offense going against one of the top defenses
What did you expect, exactly?
We looked horrid. I stopped watching at the half. But I’m not really sure what an OC can do when our offensive line can’t get a consistent push on running plays, and the QB doesn’t have time to set his feet and look down the field on passing ones. How many times did you see Alex drop back, start to look down the field, and immediately have to move because of the pressure?
The game plan was pretty conservative, which I’m not crazy about, but that’s as much on Singletary as it is on Raye, and, quite frankly, it’s probably the right decision when there’s that big a talent gap between the offense and the defense.
I've seen enough...
To indicate that Raye hasn’t a clue of how to game plan against anybody, despite whoever he has as far as players. He can’t establish anything. He calls games in total panic mode.
Go ahead and make excuses for Raye. The 49ers will just keep losing.
Well, we're waiting....
After getting sucked back in during the 4th quarter ...
… I think the problem isn’t Raye, it’s Singletary.
The team has made a strategic decision to play smash-mouth, ball-control offense, and Raye is executing that plan until the team is in a position where it doesn’t have a choice.
Smith’s improvement once the handcuffs come off (because the team has no other choice) is dramatic. I’m reminded of Reeves’ Denver teams. Reeves wanted to play smash-mouth, ball-control football, despite the fact that his team, with Elway and the receivers, was not built for it. THe result was that they were behind all the time until he had no choice but to let Elway take over.
Smith isn’t Elway, but this team is clearly better suited to running a wide-open offense than a ball-control one.
But that’s not on Raye. It’s on Sing.
(As for whether or not I’m making excuses for Raye, can you give me a single example of an above-average offense with one of the worst offensive lines in the league?)
Who has one of the worst O-lines in the League?...
Wasn’t that GB?
The problem is both coaches, but like I posted earlier here Raye’s offenses have been inconsistent and tend to regress. That’s why he has bounced around the past decade.
Well, we're waiting....
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