Official Updated NN Offseason Discussion Thread
by David Fucillo on Nov 22, 2009 2:44 PM PST
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PrintWe've had a great discussion going in Drew K's list of college prospects, but it's certainly filling up. As the threads fill up, the load time increases, so it makes sense to open up a new thread. If folks would rec this we'll be able to keep it up top for the next week or two. Even if it gets promoted to the top, keeping Rec'ing it. The more it's Rec'd, the longer it stays up.
To add a little something to get things going here, I thought I'd post the official rankings for some positions from Scout's Inc over at ESPN.com. It's Insider protected and I'd say a little more valuable than some other sites out there. Obviously everybody is entitled to their opinions, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'll stick with the guys getting paid as scouts. I'm not sure how updated these rankings are at this point, so certainly take them with a bit of a grain of salt.
For now I'm looking primarily at positions that have generated the most discussion. After each player I've included the Scouts Inc rating (out of 100). I left out outside linebacker and defensive tackle at this point. OLB doesn't distinguish between 3-4/4-3 OLBs and defensive tackle doesn't distinguish between nose tackles. So, we'll add those probably more in the offseason.
Quarterback
1. Jake Locker, Washington - 96
2. Sam Bradford, Oklahoma - 95
3. Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame - 93
4. Colt McCoy, Texas - 88
5. Tim Tebow, Florida - 83
6. Tim Hiller, Western Michigan - 73
7. Daryll Clark, Penn State - 72
8. Dan LeFevour, Central Michigan - 71
9. Bill Stull, Pittsburgh - 68
10. Tony Pike, Cincinnati - 67
Offensive Tackle
1. Russell Okung, Oklahoma State - 96
2. Trent Williams, Oklahoma - 93
3. Anthony Davis, Rutgers - 92
4. Charles Brown, USC - 91
5. Bryan Bulaga, Iowa - 90
6. Tony Washington, Abilene Christian - 85
7. Selvish Capers, West Virginia - 82
8. Edward Wang, Virginia Tech - 80
9. Sam Young, Notre Dame - 79
10. Kyle Calloway, Iowa - 78
Guard
1. Jon Asamoah, Illinois - 87
2. Mike Johnson, Alabama - 85
3. Mike Iupati, Idaho - 84
4. Vladimir Ducasse, Massachusetts - 80
5. Zane Beadles, Utah - 79
6. Sergio Render, Virginia Tech - 73
7. John Jerry, Mississippi - 72
8. Mitch Petrus, Arkansas - 70
9. Chris Marinelli, Stanford - 64
10. Erik Cook, New Mexico - 63
Safety
1. Eric Berry, Tennessee - 97
2. Earl Thomas, Texas - 94
3. Taylor Mays, USC - 93
4. Nate Allen, South Florida - 90
5. Kurt Coleman, Ohio State - 80
6. Kam Chancellor, Virginia Tech - 75
7. Justin Woodall, Alabama - 74
8. Darrell Stuckey, Kansas - 73
9. Barry Church, Toledo - 72
10. Myron Rolle, Florida State - 71
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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If I was the Niners, I wouldn’t even worry about a quarterback until they fix their offensive line.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Nov 22, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
We could draft the second coming of Joe Montana
and behind this offensive line we’d probably ruin his career via injuries
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
FA
I’ll try and add some later if I get a chance. Problem is it’s hard to find rankings for them. But this is meant for discussion of everything offseason-related.
by David Fucillo on Nov 22, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Ranking don't mean much
Ask Norte Dame about Scouts.com recruit rankings
Provide a list of names and people are more likely to add comments about the skill sets which might best help the 49ers.
Scouts Inc on ESPN for their rankings as well?
Fooch Scouts Inc has rankings for the FA’s as well. I included the rankings for a good number of them in prior postings on the prior thread. We could do that just to give us a commonality. Sound like an idea?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
How does BIll Stull look with the Lewin Forecast?
He’s got pretty big numbers this year, doesn’t he?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
There is no realistic way we get Barry or Okung without trading up
So I say we move down a little and take Bulaga and Dez Bryant who will fall now that he’s ineligible to play the rest of the season and hopefully can move our 2nd round pics around to get a 3rd first rounder to use on another O-Line and move to the bottom half of the 2nd and just pick up any secondary guys worth a damn.
Gimme 1 round!
Bryant
Why bother with Dez Bryant when there are like 8 WRs on the roster already?
Sure, Crabtree/Bryant/Hill/Morgan with VD at Tight End would be nice… but there are other major issues with this team that another 1st round WR probably is a luxury that they can’t afford right now.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I think if we actually went that direction
they might finally figure out that we’re an up tempo offense that we see when we’re down 20 points instead of what we try to be when the score is tied.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
I also think
If we can add 2 first rd linemen between 16 and 28, which I believe we can, we can address the defense through free agency and try to add an elite offensive weapon who will fall because of bad judgment. It might not be what everybody wants but with that offense and a line that could provide protection we could end up outscoring teams despite the fact we can’t defend the pass to save our lives.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
Defense will be easier to add in draft
Offensive Line is a weak class. I think we go FA OL and draft defensively in draft.
Fair nuff
There are basically 0 first round worthy guards in this draft… We’d at best be getting 2 OT’s and (maybe moving Staley to guard since hes more experience?) if he take 2 OL’s in the first.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
Not following some of that
Why would you move Staley to guard? That seems a bit odd to me. Offensive line is possibly weak for this class but still there is some value. I am not seeing it I guess. I mean let’s look at the line:
LT – Staley – Plausible if not perfect LT or RT if a better OT becomes available.
LG – Baas – Seems to not be plausible. And his contract is up in 2010
C – Heitmann – good for at least the short term age is a worry and not sure of the viability of Cody Wallace.
RG – Snyder/Rachal – At least viable if we could get a more viable option for this position then so be it.
RT – Seems to be OT by committee and just fill in.
So it seems to be that both guard positions are circumspect and we have Staley as a viable OT and need to get another OT (RT for looking at and LT if he’s better than Staley).
WHy would you move Staley to guard and have a rookie at both LT and RT? I’m not geting that.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
My whole thing was moving down in the first - gaining 2nd round picks - then moving them up to get a 3rd 1st
and trying to get Bulaga RT AND Charles Brown LT AND Dez Bryant.
I think Bulaga has more upside than Staley at his natural position and Brown is a better LT than Staley… Staley at that point is better than any of our guards… Screw it make him a guard
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
And Dez
will be the best guy available if he slips which I think he will. Having 2 elite receivers hasn’t hurt Arizona yet. Especially since Bryant fills a different role than Crabtree as he is a taller guy and Morgan has seemingly regressed as a receiver as late.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
Doesn't matter if you have two elite receivers
if you don’t have time for them to get down the field.
Bulaga, Staley, Brown
What makes you think our protection wouldn’t improve? Explain that part to me
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather not have two rookies starting on the line
and a player playing out of his normal position.
I'd rather not
Have Baas on the team anymore. That will probably happen. I’d also rather not have to spend big money to get somebody in FA when I guarantee you Staley would do fine at guard. Guard is the easiest position on the line to play and any good tackle can function as a more than serviceable guard.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
If guard was the easiest position we wouldn't have a need
Staley as a guard? He is our LT, you heard Sing, or do you know who that is?
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Staley also has a sprained knee
Not a major injury but not a good sign for a big boy to be injuring his knee at all.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
So you move him to guard because of injuey?
That doesn’t make sense. Ok No Berry but you want 3 1st rounders to get two tackles and another WR, no DB’s LB’s or DL? We need help on both sides of the ball, DB’s is 2nd to OL
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I don't think our guys will be around on D in the top rounds
My draft philosophy is value. The most value in the mid-late 1st round is at OT and Bryant IF and yes I understand thats an IF he drops. I am just betting on him dropping due to a stupid decision.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
That's not value to this team for next season
2 Tackles to move a veteran Tackle to the interior when the T is the more difficult position to play as a rookie. Guards usually have a better transition as far as early success. CB’s and Safeties will be needed more than another WR. Hill and Morgan will have 1 more year in the O and he wouldn’t start, he is not a Crabtree!
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Not drafting for next season
drafting for a dynasty.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Glad you’re not the GM
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Good to know
You’re worried about going 8-8 for a couple years and then starting over instead of turning around the franchise for the long haul.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
SO drafting another wrand two OL
And doing nothing to help the defense is gonna make us better than 8-8, ChildPlease!!
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I think that someone just dropped the Ming Dynasty vase.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Says the guy
That can’t understand moving down high first round picks to lower 1st round picks and moving the additional pick received to get a 3rd low 1st rounder. Something was definitely dropped here… A baby on its head possibly
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
No I got that I got what you were doing
Just didn’t see it’s relation to reality. I do that sort of thing a lot when playing on Madden but that’s Madden not reality.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 24, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
Chiefs will draft Bryant, I think, if they don't go T!
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
This is possible
Chiefs have alot of needs. Tackle… But they have also been looking hard at Berry.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Offensive minded Coach will draft to improve offense
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
This is a good point
There are a TON of directions the Chiefs could go. If Okung goes to the Lions to protect Stafford they might move down.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
Oh
And Staley and Bulaga are both big bulky guys… If Staley is better at his natural RT than Bulaga then you have extra depth and can use the equally huge guys to play guard
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
Staley isn't better at the RT
He really struggled the first year he played there and even said himself that he prefers LT. Why would we want to move him to a position that he doesn’t play well at? We’re also paying him top 10 LT money, not guard money (9 years 43.6 million). Doesn’t make sense to me.
Not picking at you but of course he said he prefers LT
LT is where the money is. If you were a good offensive lineman and someone asked you, wouldn’t you say you would prefer to play LT vs RT?
But then you have to consider this
that Chilo need someone solid on that side to help him out. A rookie over there means 2 inexperienced guys making the same mistakes. If you go rookie LT that played LT in college, get a veteran LG you have a solid center in Heitmann and then Chilo at RG and move Staley over to RT to present balance and a more solid line. Its more spread out.
I understand the point about money but from a winning standpoint I would think one would consider it.
I think that Snyder is a complete bust
If we can get someone over there who’s a top lineman in the draft then Heitmann can shift over to help Rachal rather than having to switch between Baas and Rachal.
Sure
Stud LTs can make as much as QBs. However he’s played better at LT than he did at RT, although that might be because he played RT as a rookie.
Staley can play either LT or RT
and if the 49ers sign someone like McNeil as a FA then that automatically makes both LT and RT stronger either way. I think I would rather have McNeil playing RT to help out Chilo Rachal.
Also, people say that RT isn’t as important as LT.. hogwash… they are equally important as every football game I have watched… the possibility of getting a sack off the right side is just as common as from the left side.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
McNeill will be a RFA in an uncapped year
so I don’t think we’ll get him. Plus in an uncapped year each team has 3 tags they can use
It just depends
on if you have a right or left handed QB which is more important. When #8 was our QB RT was more important. With Smith under center, (or preferably in the Shotgun), its the LT that holds value.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Ok maybe I'm missing it
but it seems like a “throwing out the baby with the bath water” move. Amd I’m still unsure how you plan on getting Bulaga AND Brown AND Bryant with 2 first rounders. All 3 are projected to be in the first 32, at least right now. And do you really consider Bulaga and Brown to be that much better at OT than Staley? Yes we can assume, but unless you’re saying that you consider Staley to be total crud at either LT or RT that doesn’t seem to make sense.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
Move down with both first rounders to acquire more picks
Then move those extra picks up for a 3rd 1st rounder. Requires alot of moves but possible.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see how you can do that.
Who has late first round picks to trade us for our first round picks? Somehow, you are adding another first round pick. Essentially you are having us trade down pick, to a team that is willing to give us two picks later in the draft. Who is that team? Who has two late 1st round picks?
I will explain again - hopefully for the last time
Move the high first round picks down. Receive lower 1st round and a low 2nd high 3rd round pick.
Now you have 2 lower first round picks and MULTIPLE 2nd and 3rd round picks.
Package multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks to move UP and grab a lower 1st round pick
Optimally though this is difficult with good negotiations and teams in need you end up with 3 picks between 17-28 instead of a 9-11, a 11-14 and a 2nd rounder
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
Pats or Colts would be an example of a team
Willing to move a low first round guy they don’t really need for several lower round guys they can add for depth
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
Still I don't see where you answered hudd's question
Who do you see that would be willing to give us their lower round 1st and a low 2nd or (I’m assuming you meant an or in their and not an and) high 3rd round pick. And who has a low 1 and a high 3rd as you are projecting.
I’d have to look at the NFL Trade value chart to see what it’s worth. I see your moving a 2 and a 3 to get a low 1 and saying the Pats or Colts might be one to bite on that?
If trades are proposed (and I don’t think realistically this will happen but we’ll go with it as an “what if”) then the details kinda need to be in there.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have the paperwork for that
It would require a ton of work from a GM and it may not be possible. If it IS possible I think it would be the direction to go. This is why they get paid 7 figures and I sit here on the internet at night.
You at least follow me on the moving back up part now…
As far as moving down… It would be a team on the verge, (not one that’s just underperformed but is loaded like the Pats, not their style anyways), that would feel they could make a mark with 1 guy. In order of likelihood… BENGALS, (who are 7-3 with a slew of injuries), Chargers, Cowboys, Eagles, Vikings, Packers (who might try to move way up and get Okung if they could) and lastly (if they weren’t in our division) the Cards and if they succeed down the stretch Miami.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 25, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
We kinda differ on how to position the picks but ..
yeah I think we’d all kinda like to have some bargaining room. I’d go more for trading one of our 1st rounders for some pieces like 3-5 pick(s) and maybe a 1 or 2 in next years draft. I havent’ taken an in depth look at the Trade Chart to figure it out yet. Interesting choice of Trading partners. Cowboys like to wheel and deal, I dont’ know if the FO in Cincy really would be for moving up.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
I consider Staley very good
and well rounded enough to be able to move to wherever we need him (besides center) on the line.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
Though his knee injury scares me
If he’d blown it out I’d say we’re drafting for his inevitable replacement.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
LT and RT in the 1st and another WR
Why in the hell would we do that, you’d be ignoring too many holes, there is offense and defene you know!
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Use free agency to fill the o line holes
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 23, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
O Line in FA will be huge for plenty teams and players will be pricey
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Yes, but....
Jed York will probably go out and get what the team needs as he wants to be like his Uncle…
I can see the Niners getting one or two OL in FA this year the same way the 80’s Niners did for Walsh.
I could be wrong but I sensed that kind of feeling during Eddie D’s HOF party. Jed wants to do what his favorite Uncle did.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I see it too
Jed York just ate his, “this is the last time our season ends in December” words, I think he goes out and get’s us some players.
Are you kidding?
What makes you think the Niners will not have theri own pick above the top ten?
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
um I guess you can't read
Not that i’m surprised by the fact that you think Barry will be available at 10…
THEY WILL. And they should move down with both picks to lower 1st round picks + 2nd rd picks. Still get Bulaga with 1 first rounder, get Dez Bryant, (who is at least as good as Maclin), as our #2 WR since he’ll be the best available at at around 20 and then move the 2nd rd picks to get another 1st round Quality lineman at the far end of the first round ala Staley.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Selecting A WR
that early would be a major mistake. We have Crabtree as a clear #1 WR plus with Morgan, Jones and Hill on the roster it makes no sense to push any of them back on the depth chart. I would like to select one in the middle rounds though
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 1:11 AM PST up reply actions
+1
I’d only consider it if a guy fell to the point where he was considered an absolute steal. Otherwise, there’s no need to get another receiver until you have a line and (possibly) a QB that can get him the ball.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 1:33 AM PST up reply actions
If Dez falls to 20
He is an absolute steal. I don’t think so… But many scouts feel he has more upside than Crabtree.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Would not be a steal when you can't protect your QB
We need DB’s and OL………not a 1st round WR. Bryant may go top 10 to the chiefs
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I think
Dez Bryant is gone top 10…. Dezmon Briscoe may fall to 2nd 3rd round. If he falls 4th round that would be a steal.
But probably the top 3 are going to be Bryant, Benn, and Williams (in that order). Gyliam for Cinncinati is pretty awesome also.
I like the kid from G Tech
He has a build like Andre Johnson, not as fast but at least has Crabtree speed. he is on an offense dominated by the run so he could definitely fly under the radar to 4th, but we don’t scout offensive weapons well.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Yeah he does look like
an Andre Johnson or Anquan Boldin type of guy. He probably could fall in to 3rd or 4th… That seems like it would be a steal possibly
THis isn't even logical and it's not Madden either
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
How does Dez Bryant even remotely address any of the problems with this team?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
3 words
When he’s still around at 16-20 BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
Walter has us taking Bulaga with our First First rounder
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
I think that we'll draft higher than 13th though.
I did love this quote about the #14 pick of McClain:
Having McClain and Patrick Willis side by side would be pretty intimidating.
Um, yes. Though I’d like Cody instead if Franklin isn’t around next year.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Right now the 49ers and Carolina are tied with the Jets and Bears for the #11 pick
Also, I imagine the 49ers will win more games so it is possible to have two picks anywhere from # 11 and # 15 or # 16.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Yeah. Just looking at the schedules
I’d say Carolina beats Tampa and that might be it. Jets, Patriots, Vikings, Giants, Saints should all be games they lose to finish 5-11 and get a top 10 pick.
On the other hand, I think we beat Detroit, Seattle, and StL to go 7-9. Maybe 8-8 if we beat Jax this weekend.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
The man is too big
Franklin isn’t an every down lineman either but I think that Cody’s size is going to make it tough for him to play good in the NFL. If he does get penetration he’s not going to be able to chase down a back or the QB.
Besides we’re going to franchise Franklin—there’s no need to go for a NT high in the draft. If we want a backup/eventual replacement we can bring along some of our other players or go get one in the later rounds.
The kid can dunk a basketball, at least I have heard
Shaving 20 lbs for a nice paycheck is not out of the ordinary
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I'd want to see what he does in the offseason first
A man that big is going to have stamina issues.
My worry is this: If we franchise Franklin for a year and then draft Cody high, he’s going to want a big contract. We’ll be paying big money to Franklin and to a rookie. If we draft a NT high in the draft then Franklin will know he’s out the door—why would he want to play at a high level?
We’ve got a proven NT that can play for another couple of years. Why draft high and get Cody?
He'll play at a high level for his next contract.
I think we will pick up the NT from the Steelers, if we intend on drafting high for a DT, then we pay less and let Franklin get paid elsewhere, or we can get New England on him and sign him to a low contract to best help the team.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I'd respectfully disagree
And that’s just based on my own feelings I’d say. I am thinking that Willfork is gonna be a Pat next year and so is Casey on the Steelers. I’d even more say Willfork to the Pats because of the Seymour deal. I would agree with smiley that it’s essentially an either or point of view. My own personal view is that Bill is playing the deal with Willfork to get a signing and that’s why he got rid of Seymour. Again just a feeling, no real surety.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 24, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I would take Cody end of first, but no way is he going to get a top ten guaranteed contract
As for Franklin, he will work his tail off for his next contract regardless of Cody. Especially if Cody is there, because he will want to make sure teams get tape on him instead of Cody.
I'm just wondering why we would want to pay 1st round money
to Cody and franchise (possibly long term) money to Franklin.
I don't think they'd do both
Could be wrong though. But in my opinion it’d make more sense to take someone like Phil Taylor, Cam Thomas, or Dan Williams later on in the draft if your gonna franchise Franklin.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:13 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting about the 49ers is that you never hear about them trying to extend players
But then, it just happens so they may be trying to extend Franklin now.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Mays would also be acceptable if he falls to us
despite his liabilities in coverage… because we could actually make him a lightning fast OLB
Gimme 1 round!
????
Is everyone playing too much Madden or what?
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
umm i've also read someone that did a write up about how Mays might be turned into a LB
hell urlacher played saftey in college.
by whitemike1644 on Nov 22, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
i really need to spell check my post's
by whitemike1644 on Nov 22, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think he has the IQ
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
how can a good safety not have the IQ to play linebacker??? its not like he is taking willis' job or something
by whitemike1644 on Nov 22, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
He can barely play safety
You want him to learn another position? He can’t cover, he doesn’t wrap up well, and we miss enough tackles. His speed would make him better than McKillop, maybe? But when?
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I don't want Mays anyway
Goes for the splashy hit instead of covering the ball. Berry is much better in my opinion. If by some miracle Berry falls to us we have to grab him with our first pick.
Berry is much better...
I just see him spending alot of time injured at the NFL level.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
Just like Ed Reed?
He isn’t hurt all the time so why would you say that?
If you say his size he is the same size as Reed.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Ed Reed and Berry have similar skill sets
And they can both hit. Reed plays smarter. Berry will get himself hurt.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 25, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
This is a stupid argument you're making
Ed Reed—5’11" 200 lb
Eric Berry—5’11" 203 lb
They’re the exact same size, yet Berry is somehow going to hurt himself while Ed Reed has played healthy almost his entire career?
It’s a silly argument. If you don’t like Berry, just say so but he’s a comparable size to 3 of the top safeties in the league.
Reed has been hurt quite a bit throughout his career.
I’m too lazy to check right now but I thought he had missed a few games. Disregard my stupidity if he hasn’t.
Regardless I’m anxious to see someone like Mayock’s evaluation on Berry, I’ve yet to be convinced he’s worth the hype. He looks like a liabilty in run defense and only has 2 picks this year.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:15 AM PST up reply actions
I know he's had a neck injury
That’s bothered him a bit this year and some last year, but according to nfl.com he’s only missed starting in 6 games his entire career, and that was back in 2005
He plays in the SEC and teams aren't pass happy
A tackling liability at FS? He shouldn’t be getting the most tackles. Unless we plan on missing tackles next year too. Ed Reed has missed 7 games in as many years.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I disagree
Berry has never missed a game at Tennessee and he is the size of an average NFL free safety.
You guys will never understand what I'm saying if you haven't been forced to watch him
As I have in SEC country. The guy likes to go head up. He tackles for the big hit no matter who he’s trying to bring down.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 25, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
Wow
Maybe the scout I talked to wasn’t talking out of his ass and Rlott doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does jerking motion
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
meant to be a reply to whitemike
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
for the reference to rlott I would think otherwise
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
He replied to you
I replied to him about you. Not that hard.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
And so what?
you’re comical
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Jerking lotion
We don’t care about your behind the screen activities. I read that too as well and I don’t think it will happen. Please don’t believe that if it did he will impact any team next year at that position.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I'm not saying it will happen
Just if he was drafted by the Niners and he started blowing secondary coverages watch him get converted and make the pro bowl within 3 years
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
Translates into a wasted pick IMO
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Yeah we need a o line and safety more than anything else. Mays sucks he can’t cover to save his life
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 22, 2009 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
we'll never get to see
what Alex Smith is truly capable of until we have an O-Line around him that can protect. the first half protection today was simply brutal. we certainly need an OT with one of our first round picks if none of the FAs come over. however, the best potential FAs are likely to be held out of the FA pool if there’s an uncapped year. Trueblood and Justice would be RFAs, and I think even though Clabo was an RFA this offseason, he would be again (not sure on that one).
It will be hard to have any FA success if the CBA isn’t negotiated. Our best bet is to worry about the prospects, because also with an uncapped year, teams can use the franchise tag on 2 players.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 22, 2009 3:31 PM PST reply actions
great points
I think your focus is dead on. We need a line. With the potential problems this offseason I wouldn’t say it is too crazy to think about trading up(if that makes sense then) to get a solid OT.
whether it be through free agency or the draft
my priorities going into the off-season will be:
1. Offensive line
2. Offensive line
3. Offensive line
4. OLB or something to increase the pass rush
5. secondary depth
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
78. Quarterback
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 22, 2009 3:50 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
funny
looks a lot like last year’s wish list.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
^^dead on. The O-line is really killing us. Can’t run with them, can’t pass with them.
by starshptroopr on Nov 22, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
I'd move pass rush higher
That’s the one missing ingredient on this defense. It was the difference in the loss to Minnesota and may have saved the Tennessee game. It also may have made that extra difference today. It can not be understated how much having a Ware/Haralson/Freeney would improve the other linemen’s rush, turnover ratio and 3rd down efficiency.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I understand the need for O-line
but, clearly the QB position needs new blood.
Problem is that if we don't fix the OL first.. we will continue to see QB new blood
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
you can say that
but the front office rolled the dice on marvel smith and we all know how that turned out… since then we haven’t been what we thought.
by whitemike1644 on Nov 22, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
Rolled the dice is exactly what happened. I dunno what the perfect thing to do is
But OL should have been our pick last year. FYI Maclin catches the ball pretty well
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
i just see teams that throw in lineman and it seems like nothing ever changed...
then i see teams that can’t block anyone.
i think you know which one i’m tired of
by whitemike1644 on Nov 22, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
My official Niners Offseason wish list
Free Agents: Vince Wilfork, Merriman, and Atogwe. If we can sign Wilfork, goodbye Franklin ( although he has been awesome)
Assuming we have pick 10 and 11
Draft: E Berry (despite getting Atogwe he can play corner and Safety)
trade down in the first to pick up additonal 2nd
1b Ciron Black-LT
2a Dan LeFevour-QB
2b OG- John Jerry Ole Miss
3a Vince Oghobaase, Duke
4 Demaryius Thomas G Tech (if he is here it’s a steal)
5 Dexter McCluster WR Ole Miss KR/PR
6 Steve Schilling OT Mich.
7 Reggie Stephens OG Isu
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
LOL
You say I’m playing Madden.
You’re high if you think Barry will be around with the 10th pick,. He’s the highest rated guy in the draft.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
walterfootball.com Barry 5th
NewNFLDraft.com Barry 2nd
DraftCountdown.com Barry 5th but as high as 2nd
NFLDraftDog.com Barry 2nd
draftsite.com Barry 9th
The only shot Barry has of falling to 9th is the Titans keep playing well and move out of the subbasement of the NFL because they are taking him NO MATTER WHAT. They would probably move up to get the guy if he slips past 5 and they are outside the top 10.
And I’m playing Madden HAHAHAHAHA whatever.
Some places still rank Dez Bryant as the #6 guy in the draft and are assuming his violation of NCAA rules and being on the shelf for more than half the season won’t hurt him. Its possible but I think he slips as many as 10 picks from where he WOULD have been based on questionable judgment. After the trouble with Crabtree last year how many teams wanna deal with a WR that’s looking for an agent and working out with Deion while he’s still in school?
Oh and for the record that draftsite.com has Bulaga at 17 and Bryant at 18 and then Charles Brown at 26 which I think would be a PERFECT top draft class for us.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
Okay Madden mania
Maybe you were ready to reply with HAHAHAHAHAHA, but atop the comment what does it say? You know the header if you will……………Dez Bryant in round 1 with our Defensive and offensive issues? Yeah you think you’re playing Madden, Taylor mays to play OLB, are you awake?
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Are you awake
Thinking Tennessee won’t take Berry?
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
Tennessee can't stop the run, if their owner is that stupid than maybe it isn't what they need just like
Vince Young. If it’s up to the coach he will draft Defense, and maybe OL. Terrence Cody or Suh. They have more stock in DLineman since they have Griffin and Finnegan.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Suh
is supposed to be the 1st guy gone in almost every mock draft.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
It always depends on who gets the pick
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Tampa likely
And they need him
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Tampa needs OL, WR adn DL help before safety help
Barber may move from corner to play there
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
You say the same about Berry
The titans will finish better than the panthers, so why discuss it
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I say Berry is the best player in the draft and he is.
How can you not figure out the difference? Its not that hard on the reading comprehension factor.
I’ve said Berry goes anywhere from 2nd to 9th and mock drafts say the same. ESPECIALLY THE ONES I SOURCED.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
He's still a safety
Odds are he won’t go in the top 5, at the very least.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 24, 2009 1:47 AM PST up reply actions
Just stop it Brendan he can't comprehend reality
BOOM, he’s on his back!
Say that he can listen………………LOL
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
That's not what I'm seeing
I’ve looked at 5 mock drafts and 4 of them have him going in top 5 and the other one has him going at number 9.
My Official Mock Draft
Has both Berry and OKung dropping to the 49ers.
Of course I still believe in Santa!
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
A lot of mock drafts go off rankings....
So if Scout says a player is the 3rd best player, the mock draft will plug that guy there based on which team needs his help with 2-5 pick. Berry is the highest rated player, but it doesn’t mean a team is going to grab him with the #1 pick. There isn’t as much emphasis on a Safety, no way he get’s top 5 money. MAYBE top 10 but I doubt it.
It's an interesting contradiction
Berry is ranked in the top 5 for the draft, and yet history seems to side with you. For fun I went back through every draft since 2000 to see what position the first safety was drafted at.
2000—FS taken 23 (Rashard Anderson)
2001—SS taken 20 (Adam Archuleta)
2002—FS taken 8 (Roy Williams)
2002—SS taken 24 (Ed Reed)
2003—none
2004—FS taken 5 (Sean Taylor)
2005—none
2006—SS taken 6 (Michael Huff)
2006—SS taken 7 (Donte Whitner)
2007—SS taken 6 (LaRon Landry)
2007—FS taken 19 (Michael Griffin)
2007—FS taken 21 (Reggie Nelson)
2008—FS taken 31 (Kenny Phillips)
2009—none
So several years there were no safeties taken in the first round. 2007 was a bumper year for safeties. The top drafted safety was Roy Williams at number 6 (plays for the Bengals and has done a good job for them).
It’s very possible that Berry falls to #10, and I suspect that both our picks will be between #8 and #12
Now if we’re looking for stud CBs they tend to go higher than safeties but I don’t know if there are any 1st rounders coming out.
Contraversial picks too
2004—FS taken 5 (Sean Taylor)
2006—SS taken 6 (Michael Huff)
2006—SS taken 7 (Donte Whitner)
2007—SS taken 6 (LaRon Landry)
Taylor’s talent lived up to the hype but the Skins heard critics.
Michael Huff is the one pick Raider fans agree to bitch about, at the time of the draft and now. Really, they don’t give that STFU and support that Raiders mantra over this one.
Donte Whitner – never heard of him. I should google.
LaRon Landry – I believe that was Gibbs again. Even after the success of Taylor it was still criticized.
Again, most don’t believe in picking Safeties that high. The price of a Top 10 pick has doubled making it less likely.
Yeah
The only player on that list worth a 1st rounder has been Ed Reed. He’ll be in the HOF some day and he was picked 24. Sean Taylor was a great safety. Who knows what his career would’ve been like.
According to NFL.com
where I got the stats he was drafted as a DB and then made the switch to safety.
None of the guys listed on that list
were the top ranked guys in their draft class.
Michael Huff was ranked 13th when drafted at 6th… He went in the year of Bush, Young and other Mario Williams.
Even Shawn Taylor went behind Eli, Robert Gallery, Larry Fitz and Phillip Rivers.
This draft class is exceptionally deep with upper-mid talent – 94’s, 95’s and 96s but the highest ranked guys are 97’s in Berry and Gerald McCoy.
Berry is the only Safety at the top of his draft class
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
Did I mention between picks 19 and 25
There are 3 OT’s ranked 91 to 93 by Scouts inc???
And there is a WR with a 95 ranking with a character issue… that sits only 11th in terms of pure talent evaluation??
Just for comparison we got Crabtree at 10 who had a 98 rating before his foot injury.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
exactly
I just don’t see Berry cracking top 5 no way no how. Those other picks like bignerd says were controversial. MAYBE he goes top 10 but we will see. Anyone want to pay a Safety top 5 money, top 10? Not me. But outside of the top 10 the pay is more realistic and I’m all for it.
I thought teams paid slot and position in a combination
That’s why Tampa’s QB they drafteed 18th or 19th had such a high salary
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
QBs get paid higher no matter what...
But from what I have read and heard positional players outside of top 10 have MUCH more reasonable salaries. The only players I’m taking in top 10 this year is OL, QB, DL in that order.
DId you say the same last year?
Should have been the case mainly with OL in 1st
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
Yes
I wanted OL last year, but can’t pass up Crabtree. Think about it, we have a FRANCHISE type WR now, if we get the right OL now, we could be set for years and this year wouldn’t be such a big deal. However, let’s say we grabbed an OL last year, tried to go WR and struck out? Everytime we pick, and pick correctly, I can’t get upset. If we grabbed a QB last year, and he was a Pro Bowler, would you be upset we didn’t grab OL? I think it’s not as important who we pick, but that we pick people that can help us. As long as we are making picks that are starters, and potential Pro Bowlers, I don’t care what position they play. I’d rather grab a Pro Bowl WR, than a mediocre OL just because we need one.
by hudd07 on Nov 27, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So you're fine with passing on a probowl OL
and taking a possible pro bowl WR who needs an OL and QB to get him the ball so he can make it to the pro bowl? If you would only take certain positions this year at 10 then you’re contradicting what you just said. Passing on Berry at 10 would be stupid, just like many thought about passing on Crabs. And it would make more sense this year to pass on a need since we have two 1st round selections!!
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
I never said that
I never said I’d be fine passing on Berry. In fact, I have purposefully stayed out of those conversations regarding him for that reason. Would I take him at 10? Yes if he was the best player on the board.
Nor would I pass on a probowl OL if he was the best player on the board. However, I’m not for taking an OL because we need one. Would you pass on Gerald McCoy who is 2nd rated player and a DT for Charles Brown who is 22nd rated and OT just because we need an OT?
I would
We don’t need a DT. We need an O-line.
I’m not a proponent of drafting BPA, at least not ’til the later rounds. Your first couple of rounds you draft to fill the needs of your team.
Sam Bowie
He agrees with you. Sometimes you take BPA no matter what your needs. Other times you fill needs. Its all situation dependent.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 28, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Most mocks had crabtree going top 5
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Patrick Willis at the NFL Combine
6’-1 1/4", 242 lbs, 4.49 40yd (combine official), 39" vert, 9’11" broad, 22 Reps BP@ 225
Taylor Mays workout stats
6’ 3 3/4", 225+ lbs (could easily put on weight), 4.25 40yd (according to Carroll), 41" vert, 11’2" broad, 21 Reps@225
Sounds to me like he’s built to be a fast blitzing LB or a prototype SS except he’s not exactly a playmaker in coverage so might be better used to stuff the run, make plays in the backfield and put QB’s on stretchers.
Wills 242… Mays listed as high as 235… HMMMMMMMMM
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
It's Not Without Precedent
Thomas Davis was a safety in college at Auburn before the Panthers selected him and switched him to safety.
That said The reasons why Mays may be a good LB in the NFL is the reason not to select him. If we are to select an OLB we must go after a prototypical pass rusher such as a small DE or bigger LB ( George Selvie and Eric Norwood) come to mind
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions
Error
Carolina switched Davis to LB
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions
Mays won't run a 4.25
I’d guess closer to a 4.4. Colleges don’t report accurate numbers.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 24, 2009 1:48 AM PST up reply actions
I'm thinking he runs
between a 4.28 and a 4.33. His speed is no bs
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
I've seen it reported that he's clocked
as low as 4.22. The 4.25 is a time that’s been attributed to Pete Carroll personally. Joe Mcknight has said Taylor is a good bit faster than he is.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
This is a reasonable concern
and a reason I think he may be another guy that gets converted to a position with less coverage responsibility. He would be basically the same size as Julian Peterson but faster… I’m just sayin… Whether that happens or not depends on if he is better in coverage than he has looked this year.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't phrase that right
And a reason I think he may be another guy that gets converted, in his case to a position with less coverage responsibility
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
Where would he play in a 3-4 though?
He has zero experience rushing the passer, and I think he’d be too small to play ILB. Maybe he could be a weak side linebacker in a 4-3, especially in a Cover-2, but I don’t see how he would ever fit at anything other than safety with the Niners.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:09 AM PST up reply actions
I think he plays a Polamolu role with Niners
He is fast than Palamolu and hits like him. Why not a SS? Even Roman and Lewis w/niners were saying that role is pretty interchangable with FS.
Not smart enough and is just a speed upgrade over Lewis.
He has NO ball hawking skills, he’s got Raiders written all over him, him and tebow both.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
smart?
Do you know his SAT scores? I don’t get why people say things like that. Polamalu seems like a smart enough guy, so it’s possible Mays isn’t as smart, but there are a LOT players in NFL lacking book smarts that succeed. OJ Simpson? Fred Dean? Terry Bradshaw? Speed makes up for a lot of bad decisions. While someone with less speed would need to know the exact route to get a jump, someone with more speed could get a worse read, and still jump the route. I’m not saying I want Mays, but I do think he could have a Polamalu type role in our defense.
Are we talking Mays or Berry here?
I get confused.
Personally I don’t want Mays but would take Berry if he was available to us.
Mays
Brendan asked where he would play in a 3-4 and I think he could play as SS like Polamalu. rlott doesn’t think he is smart enough to do it.
Would I take him late in first round, yes, with my first pick no. However, I think he could be the run stopping Polamalu type player. Maybe not as good in coverage, but harder hitter, and better in run support as SS. Imagine how much better we get at Safety with Mays taking Lewis’ place. Faster, better athlete, better in run support, and because of the speed, better in coverage.
I think he could be a lightning quick OLB in
Another 10 lbs on the guy and he’d be the exact same size as Julian Peterson but faster. As bad as Mays is in coverage there is NO TE that would lose him on a route and he would put the fear of god in QB’s if you lined him up to blitz.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 25, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
SS for sure
I don’t think you take a guy that isn’t used to rushing the passer, then assume just because he is fast he will be able to get around a 300 lb man that has done nothing his whole life but stop people stronger, and bigger than you. I just don’t see him as OLB. Just becuase his is similar in body type to a Peterson, doesn’t mean he will find the same success. Either you are used to rushing the passer, and have developed those moves, or not. You don’t suddenly go from a Coverage type guy in college to all the sudden some outstanding OLB like Porter. I’m sorry, not gonna happen.
If you're reading form all those sites why don't you spell his name right.
What team has the need that is picking that high is what you want to ask. Things happen before draft day and anyone can slip to 10, ask Crabtree. Plus the Raiders draft ahead of us and should take a QB but will take Taylor Mays. The only team with the need drafting that high is the Chiefs, but with their offensse and the coach being offensive minded I suspect them improving the offense first.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Tennessee if they don't win out
McFly!
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
What makes you think Tennessee's record will be worse than the Panthers or ours?
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Because right now, they are a game behind both Carolina and SF
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
And a better team than both as well we personally own the tie breaker
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
We finish above them Carolina below SO MAYBE we have a chance.assuming Carolina loses Jets and NYG
Schedule
Tenn: @Texans(L), Zona(L), @Colts(L), Rams(W), Fins(L), Chargers(L), @Seahawks(50/50)
Carolina: @ Jets(L), TB(W), NE(L), Vikings(L), @NYG(L), NO(L)
SF: JAC, @ SEA, Zona(50/50), @PHI(L), Det(W), @STL(W)
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
And at 9 or so...
I figure we could turn Berry into a good corner or let him do the ballhawking safety thing and keep him healthy cause he will get injured as a run stopping safety and then it will be a waste.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
He will play FS or CB not SS
Palomalu isn’t usually hurt and he plays a lot of football. He got on the cover of Madden and I gues that’s all she wrote.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
The problem with Berry at any safety position is he fancies himself a hitter
and he can crack at the college level for sure. Not like Mays can crack with all world power but he can hit. But when the guys you’re playing against are more often similar to Tebow in size and speed than not… He will get smashed. But he will still try to crack. You’ll have to change the way he plays the game. Worth a flyer on around 10 but not higher. I foresee injury problems.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
FS aren’t plugging the running hole. When they hit they are snipping the WR who think they can sneak across the middle without getting their head knocked off.
Merton Hanks used to lay the wood on people and he was a thin guy.
Bignerd I know this, FS isn't supposed to go playing like that
But just watch the way Berry attacks running backs or scrambling QB’s. He tries to play like a SS. This is a BAD bad habit for a dude that goes 200 lbs and is far from the same build as a Bob Sanders or even a Polamalu.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
Builds
Troy Polamalu—5’10" 207 lbs
Bob Sanders—5’8" 206 lbs
Erid Berry—5’11" 203 lbs
Taller than both Polamalu and Sanders. 4 lbs lighter than Polamalu—which could easily be fixed with a tough off-season weight lifting program.
If you don’t like the guy that’s fine. (I don’t care for Mays.) To say he’s not built like Sanders and Polamalu and so can’t hit like them—well that’s just plain wrong.
One thing
We don’t know that those measurements are correct.
Also, Berry plays much, much less physical than Polamalu or Sanders do.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:18 AM PST up reply actions
I'm just responding to Burnz
argument that Berry is going to get himself hurt by mentioning that he’s got the same build as 3 of the outstanding safeties in the league.
Well
Sanders and Polamalu have both been hurt a lot, so I’m not sure how being built like them is a sign that Berry will stay healthy.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:51 AM PST up reply actions
They both play SS and is a more physical position that is more suitable for Goldson
I think Berry would be a FS with this DB unit
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
LOL @ Kubiak blowing that one for the Texans.
I will very happily be wrong if Tenn can beat the good teams on that list and lose to the Rams and Seachickens and get themselves out of draft position
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
Not at all
Just wait until we here more from actual scouts on Berry, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he’s available at 10.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 22, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
I've talked to an actual scout while I was watching Auburn U practice
because I wanted his opinion on technique vs natural athleticism. (Berry vs Mays) He said Berry was a phenom who could play any position in the secondary. He could be a lockdown corner or a ball hawking safety. I said I didn’t think he’d stay healthy at safety trying to stuff the run because of his size and he said its actually harder to find a great corner than a safety and Berry’s footwork and hips were good enough to switch him over and move an average corner to safety.
In his opinion Barry was the #1 player in the draft bar none. The scout handled the SEC scouting for an AFC North franchise…. Just 1 scouts opinion… But I think alot of guys feel the same way since he has the highest Scouts inc. ranking of any player.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
You'd use a top 5 pick
On a safety your going to convert to a corner? Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me…
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 22, 2009 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
RLott is the one talking about taking Berry
I think Berry will get hurt playing safety in the NFL and would look at him converting to corner. Berry is the most all around talented guy in the draft and WILL be gone BY 9. There are none of the questions around him that surrounded Crabtree. Some people will obviously hold a different opinion on him getting hurt and will take him between 2 and likely 5 and certainly 9. I look at him getting blown up by Tim Tebow when he went to tackle him and see that happening repeatedly with NFL sized players and him spending Bob Sandersesque time on the shelf.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Hey
You’d use a top 5 pick On a safety your going to convert to a corner? Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me…
This comment posed a question to you.
You’re the one saying play Berry at CB, I would only want him to play FS and add another dimesion with coverage abilities
And at 9 or so… I figure we could turn Berry into a good corner or let him do the ballhawking safety thing and keep him healthy cause he will get injured as a run stopping safety and then it will be a waste.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t run from your own comments when someone let’s you know it doesn’t make sense.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
LOL
“You’d use a top 5 pick on a safety you’d convert into a corner?”
“At 9 or so.. I figure we could turn him into a corner or let him do the ballhawking safety thing.
How does that contradict one another? 9 is not a top 5 pick. Were you drunk when you posted that? Seriously dude….
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
Someone asked you a question and u said RLOTT is talking about taking Berry
I didn’t say at 5, plus I also didn;t say convert hi to safety, he was talking to you and about you so there was no need for my name ot be mentioned
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
If you are talking solely on the safety part...
As a FS if we give let him play as the game comes to him he WILL try to go head up with the big boys. He fancies himself a big hit guy. This is why he’ll get injured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv3UpcZRlWU
Instead of taking Tebow’s feet out he squares up to try to deliver a blow. This will get him hurt at the NFL level with his size and build.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Which I think I noted elsewhere - if not in that comment
That we would have to put him in situations where he can’t be doing that type of thing. Changing the way a player is allowed to change his position can have a huge impact on his game though… If taking him out of run support and slowing him down from his game effects him then over to corner where you can be a lockdown guy.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
Changing the way a player is allowed to play his position can have
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
But you want to convert a porr tackkling safety to LB?
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Its a good point but still different
Having Mays wrap up when he’s the hardest hitter in college football is something you have to teach but can be done. Teaching a little guy not to go head up with big guys is a psychological thing… Its something he should know at an instinctual level but he does it anyways.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 25, 2009 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Berry
we would have to put him in situations where he can’t be doing that type of thing
Like taking Berry off the field?
Your evaluation that Berry tackles high is a keen observation. Good work from you.
Berry certainly has questions about him
There is absolutely no way (barring injury) I;d take him over Ndamakung Suh.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:20 AM PST up reply actions
AND LOL
AGAIN at wasting a high second round pick on LeFevour. This draft is so deep at QB with the Jr’s coming out we shouldn’t spend above a 3rd rd pick on a backup qb.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
ya i agree
to me none of them did better in college than nate davis did
by whitemike1644 on Nov 22, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
And I think Davis is overrated
Locker looks the most like an elite NFL QB but we’ll never see him slip outside the 1st round.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
I like LeFevour whether anyone else does or not
It’s my opinion to draft him that high. Considering you’re the guy saying put Taylor Mays at Olb, need i say more.
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
if Berry doesnt fall to us (and I hope that he does)
I say we wait till a later round to draft Myron Rolle to fill a safety spot, the kid’s good, and you know he’s sharp as a tack being a Rhodes Scholar and all
"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."-Braveheart
by Camraman926 on Nov 23, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions
A Couple Things
At this point i would rather have Franklin then Wilfork. He has been a better player this season and it’s just that simple. You have the 49ers selecting 4 offensive linemen. Well how is that going to help us next season? I do like Thomas and Schilling where you have them slotted, both would be steals. But wouldn’t it be better for the niners to go after a proven tackle in McNeill or Roos? Plus i think Black has bust written all over him. Mccluster would be a steal in the 5th round as he would takeover the return game (our most glaring weakness) behind the O-line and could be slotted in as a #5 receiver behind Crabtree, Morgan, Jones and Hill.
Overall a good mock off-season but i do question 4 OL in the draft and not one in free agency
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions
Where did we get our 2B?
I thought we only had one pick in the second round.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Trading one of the early first rounders to acquire a 2nd
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Thanks
Knew I’d missed something there.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
My Update Mock
Continuing on Lott’s trade theme. This is what i would do.
Trade 1st of the two 1st round picks to Minnesota for their pick, 2nd round pick and 2010 4th round pickWe will also be getting two compensatory picks
1. DE- Greg Hardy Mississippi
Could be a dominating pass rusher, but also fits the mold for a 3-4 DE because he is real solid against the run as well.
1. CB- Joe Haden Florida
Is a true shutdown corner, with the possibility of us releasing Clements following this season i see this as a viable option
2. RB- Jahvid Best California
I understand that he isn’t going to be a true every down RB but what he could bring to us on special teams and in different formations would open up us to a lot of big plays. His concussion will drop his stock so he could be had here
2. LB- Eric Norwood South Carolina
Manny Lawson has been really good all season long, though the stats don’t show it. But in a 3-4 we need a dominating pass rusher from the LB corp. Neither Haralson or Lawson are that
3. WR- Golden Tate Notre Dame
I don’t think he will be here for us, this if he comes out. But all major publications show that he will be. If he is then no reason to hesitate. Not only does he have the ability to break it on every play but Tate has hands made of glue
4. G- John Jerry Mississippi
You may ask why it took so long for me to take a lineman here but you will see that later. Jerry is an absolute beast on the inside.
5. QB- Max Hall BYU
I honestly think we have more needs then QB earlier in the draft. Hall would be nice fitting in as the #3. Plus i believe the 49ers will give Smith another year.
Other picks
5. TE- Andrew Quarless Penn State
6. LB- Reggie Carter UCLA
7. FB- Richard Dickson LSU
7. QB/WR- Juice Williams Illinois
Sign S- Oshi Atogwe, G- Darryn Colledge and OT- Marcus McNeill.
Re-sign LB- Matt Wilhelm and CB- Dre Bly
Franchise DT- Aubrayo Franklin
So this is what it would look like
QB- Alex Smith
RB- Frank Gore
FB- Moran Norris
TE- Vernon Davis
WR- Michael Crabtree
WR- Josh Morgan/ Jason Hill/ Golden Tate®
T- Marcus McNeill
G- Chilo Rachal
C- Eric Heitman
G- Darryn Colledge
T- Joe Staley
DE- Justin Smith
DT- Aubrayo Franklin
DE- Greg Hardy®
LB- Parys Haralson
LB- Patrick Willis
LB- Takeo Spikes
LB- Manny Lawson/ Eric Norwood®
CB- Shawntae Spencer
CB- Tarell Brown
NB- Dre Bly/ Joe Haden®
S- Dashon Goldson
S- OJ Atowge
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 22, 2009 7:54 PM PST reply actions
Greg Hardy is strictly a 4-3 DE
And with his injury and attitude problems probably not worth more than a late first round pick anyways. Also, I don’t think Norwood or Tate will last nearly that long. I love the Haden pick though.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 22, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
Is he fast enough to play OLB?
I haven’t really paid attention to Hardy… But maybe a viabble replacement for Lawson? Assuming that we kept Franklin on the squad of course
See my reply to nocal81
I don’t think it’s speed so much as lack of an ability to move laterally.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 1:26 AM PST up reply actions
I Disagree
No he isn’t and i have heard that from multiple scouts around the net. His ability to stop the run makes him a nice fit in a 3-4. I do agree on the attitude issue but that will become more clear as the draft nears.
I also don’t think that Norwood or Tate will last that long. But my mock was based only on recent player projections from NFL Draft Dawg and CBS sportsline.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting
From what I’ve read Hardy lacks the agility/hipturning ability to cover well or make plays in space. No doubt he’d be solid against the run but I’d be pretty wary of him in a 3-4 at least.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 1:25 AM PST up reply actions
Smith
isn’t a great coverage end but he is a good player for us, and didn’t Cincy run a 4-3 when he played with them. I think in selecting a 3-4 end the 49ers should more look at pass rushing and rush defense then coverage. But that’s just me
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 1:45 AM PST up reply actions
You think Hardy would play 3-4 end?
I’ve never heard anyone suggest that, only that he could possibly play outside linebacker in a 3-4. That’s why I said I thought he was weak in coverage, I don’t think he has nearly enough bulk to play on the line of scrimmage for the Niners.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
DraftTek has him as strictly 4-3 DE
Thought I’d check NinersNation’s “Official Draft Simulator” to see what they have and they have him as a 4-3 Defensive end and not in their list of 3-4 Defensive Ends. Reference: http://www.drafttek.com/2010top10-4.asp
Thought I’d chime in with that and give a plug to one of our “Official” spots. :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
I Have Heard
alternative theories regarding him though. I do see where your coming from on this but i stand strong on my projection. Either way i do think we could use a 3-4 DE weather or not it is Hardy is another question!
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
He may go to The Titans
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I just think you should get your hopes down about McNeil
You pay a Qb 90 mil and let his blindside pretector go to FA? I just think the chance of that happening is minimal. That’s why I picked 4 OL, for depth and competition not for starters. Only the RT would start and the Guard if we get the kid form FSU
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Once Again
Vincent Jackson, Darren Sproles, Shawn Merrimen and Marcus McNeill are all going to be free agents for the Chargers. It just depends on who AJ Smith thinks is more important a true #1 receiver that is still young and has a great relationship with Rivers or a franchise offensive tackle. I won’t pretend to be in his shoes but it’s a tough decision to say the least
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
I'll pretend, simply because you have to protect 90 million
It may happen, he may be let go but I don’t kow anything about their depth at the position. If it were me I got NaaNee and Floyd and gates I’m protecting the BLINDSIDE (movie pun)
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
That Great
Love it LOL. I totally see where you are coming from on this. If i were Smith i would protect the 90 million dollar man first and foremost but it isn’t an easy decision. If not McNeill then Michael Roos will be available from the Titans as they plan on not franchising him. I see at least 4 franchise type tackles on the free agent market. All have proven themselves worthy of that role in the NFL. With the needs we have on both sides of the ball it makes sense to concentrate on them and sign via an extremely strong O-line free agent class.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
This is the catch 22
We have a cheap LT in Staley, are we getting these guys to be franchise LT? We definitely can make a splash in FA and become competitive. I would agree that franchise lineman, pass rushers, and quarterbacks are highest as far as hit and miss in the draft and FA would be the best option. I would definitely go after Merriman since he is familiar with Manusky and could come cheap. I am all for McNeil, I know I wouldn’t take chances on 90 mil.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I'd be very cautious with Best at this point
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
That's Why
he fell to the 2nd round. With Gore and Coffee ahead of him he wouldn’t take a beating. And even after Gore is gone i don’t see Best as a true #1 RB, but what he can bring to the team is huge especially if he can be had in the 2nd round
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 22, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
U think maybe 3rd
Just because of the rise of concussions, Westbrook will be fresh on a lot of people’s mind. He will end up falling to a team like the pats!
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I think I mean
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I Could See That
but again some draft sites still have him going in the early 20’s. I think that was too early even before the concussions. With the renewed interest/worry of this type of injury i could see some teams passing up on him. But again teams like the Giants, Texans, Steelers and Patriots could utilize him in roles other then starting RB. That’s why i don’t see him going much later then the mid 2nd round. Obviously if he is there in the 3rd then it would be a no brainer
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
If we are going to take a QB late in the draft we could select a more viable option than Hall. I’ve seen him twice in person, and he just doesn’t make good reads. He has men playing on an offensive line in front of him(25-26 year olds fresh off their mission), and though he’s put up decent numbers, he’s declined significantly from his junior to senior year. Not to mention the bottom 6 in the mountain west is pretty much a cake walk.
You think so?
I’ve seen him play as well and I think his performance this year is right on par with his junior year.
3,234 yards passing this year, 167.16 passer rating, 28 TDs, 14 INT. Completed 70.3% of his passes.
In 2008 it was 3957 yards, 156.88 passer rating, 35 TDs, 14 INT. Completed 69% of his passes.
They’ve got one more game on their schedule (besides any bowl appearance), so it seems to me that he’s right on pace for his 2008 season numbers.
Where's Spencer and Clements
Brown can’t tackle and he blew it in the Packers Game.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Tate
Publications aside, you might as well give up hope that Golden Tate will be availible in the 3rd round. Sub 4.53 40, he is a top 45 pick.
Did you not
notice the signings of Mcneill and Colledge and the pick of Jerry? So we need more then 3 offensive linemen?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 22, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
That would be the greatest offseason ever
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 22, 2009 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm...
You don’t think drafting an OT in the first or second round is a good idea?
Yes rlott#42, Crabtree...can block
If It's A Guard Then No
Guards don’t go in the 1st round and rarely in the 2nd round. You can find a guard in the later rounds. Regarding the tackle position, Marcus McNeill is better then any option in the draft, he is a true franchise tackle and has proven it in the NFL. Now if we cannot sign him or a Michael Roos type player then of course the needs in the draft change. I am not enamored with any of the tackles that could go in the 1st round especially with the options in free agency.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 22, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
You can find a guard in the later rounds.
Actually no, the Niners can’t find a guard in any round. Just look at the roster…
I wouldn’t be opposed to taking a guy like Mike Iupati or Rodney Hudson in the second round.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 22, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
don't trust McC picking guards
he requires that they be fat and slow.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
Who drafted Smiley?
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
We have one, Rachal's job is hard, especially playing next to Snyder, he has shown flashes of brilliance, it's just been very minimal!
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Look At The Roster?
Okay maybe i should have rephrased it, teams can find guards in the later rounds. Keep in mind that both Rachal and Baas are 2nd round picks, not later round picks.
The drop off from Iupati and Hudson to the likes of Carter, Pouncey or Jerry just isn’t enough to justify a 2nd round pick on them. Now if you want to talk tackle then i am all ears. But regarding Guard my stance is clear on this
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 12:49 AM PST reply actions
Carter is a mauler, id be happy picking him up in round three or later, he’s one of my personal faves. But youre right on the money, you dont use your top picks on G, and anyone that thinks that needs their heads checked.
"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."-Braveheart
you dont use your top picks on G, and anyone that thinks that needs their heads checked
What kind of statement is that?.Some of the NFL’s best guards were late first – early second round picks and there’s usually 1-3 guards picked every year in that range. If you can find a top guard why would you pass on him? Getting a Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca would be a tremendous help to this team.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 1:31 AM PST up reply actions
Touche Salesman!
I didnt intend to come off quite that cocksure, While i would love to find a gem like Hutch or Faneca, those fellas seem to be the exception, not the rule. Its def possible to draft an interior lineman that early, but given our recent questionable choices (Baas, and Rachal-altho im willing to give him another year to see if he can mature fully), i think that it would be too large of a gamble for this FO to take another Guard with a high second round pick, especially if they dont address the tackle issue through FA or one of our first rounders, which im all for. I suppose the makeup of a draft can change with just one wayward pick (See Heyward-Bey, Darrius). Idk, thats just my opinion on it though, who knows what will happen in FA and leading up to the draft. feel free to rip my ravings apart, its almost 4 in the morning and i could care less, lol
"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."-Braveheart
Ah
I just misread you a bit then, my bad. I agree with your opinion for the most part. :-)
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 2:33 AM PST up reply actions
I would say get the most pro ready guard
Which IMO is the kid from Florida State
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Worth a High 2nd as well
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
I was joking about the roster bit
Because the Niners haven’t been able to find quality guards in any round, even the early ones.
We’ll see on the guards in the draft, it’s definitely been a position of weakness. What positions would you look at with the first three picks? I’d mainly focus on OT’s, OLB’s, QB, OG and secondary help.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 1:29 AM PST up reply actions
Yes
Some of the leagues best guards were late 1st round picks. But in terms of the overall percentage that position heeds a lot more viable starters in later rounds then do other positions. The 1st round is always going to be top heavy in regards to viable starters in the NFL, this is why they are drafted early.
I have listed my mock and you have responded. But doesn’t it all depend on who we sign in free agency? I agree in the need of bringing in two new starters in the O-line i guess we just differ on how to go about that
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 1:43 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, your right
I’m just saying (as is my opinion for most any position) that you should go for value, if a stud guard is there in the second round then take him. If there isn’t one, then don’t.
And yeah i saw your mock but i was wondering more your personal opinion on which spots you would emphasize. That’s a bit different than a mock to me, because in a mock you judging player value and who you think the team would take.
I think it’d be great to get some guys in free agency I’m just not counting on it. Hoping for McNeil or Merriman or something like that seems more like a pipe dream than realism to me. But i think they could find a solid guard in free agency or something like that.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 2:31 AM PST up reply actions
It's Up To The FO To Dole Out The Cash
We will be in a great position to bring in free agents weather or not it’s an uncapped season, obviously in a better situation if it isn’t uncapped. Either way there is going to be a huge free agent market at our positions of need and i see the 49ers using that to supplement the draft. I am not talking about pulling a Daniel Snyder and doling out top cash for 4 or 5 free agents. What i am talking about is going after 1-2 top tier free agents and possibly 1 mid level starter… This is why i use this theory
Free Agents In Positions Of Need
T- Marcus McNeill San Diego Unclear if he will be franchised
T- Michael Roos Tennessee Will not be franchised
T- Chad Clifton Green Bay Not sure about the fit
T- Adam Terry Baltimore Been promised he wont be tagged
G- Darryn Colledge Green Bay Would be a perfect fit
G- Logan Menkens New England Will be on the free agent market
G- Bobbie Williams Cincinnati Has done great protecting Palmer
S- OJ Atogwe St. Louis I know we all want him
S- Roman Harper New Orleans Huge upside and is improving
S- Dawan Landry Baltimore Was promised not to be franchised
This is why i think we could fill a few holes through free agency.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
San Diego is going to be in a tough spot this year
lots of players coming up that they’ll have to pay big money for and they can only franchise one of them. My guess is that they’ll let Mcneill go.
If we could grab him for LT, move Staley to RT, grab one of the Guards to take Baas’ spot, we’d be doing ok. Also grab one of the safeties that’s available. That gives us room in the draft to take some chances.
God bless ya!
Yes that is a reach but there are other players in FA that we can look at as well. The concept is to fill needs those are filled by both FA and the draft. One will affect the other won’t they? There is more than McNeil as well in the FA class and there are guards to look at as well. If the RT problem can be handled thru a FA move and the OG problem as well then we lessen the need for knee jerk reactions in the draft.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Yup
That’s why I think these mock drafts are so premature. Who knows what will happen. Lots of good players hitting FA. We don’t have to fill every need through the draft—in fact I don’t want to do that.
Many of those who are listed as possible FAs won't be without a CBA
I read where without the CBA the years for FA go from 4 to 5 automatically. I think it was on ESPN or NFL.com where I read it.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Yep agreed but we have to go one way or the other right?
We either have to assume CBA or assume not.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 24, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
The question is.. will McNeil be a UFA ?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
My bad
McNeil won’t be a FA in an uncapped year.
Needs 6 years and he’s only got 4 on his current contract
{Site Decorum}
This is the right market to get him in too. Yes, it’s hard getting a quality LT in free agency but the NFL has just had a couple of drafts full of LTs so there are less suitors on the market than usual.
One thing
Did you know that if it’s an uncapped year next year each team gets 2 franchise tags?
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 24, 2009 1:28 AM PST up reply actions
Close
It’s 1 franchise tag and 2 transition tags.
Franchise—locked in gets average of top 5 at his position or 120% of his previous year’s salary (whichever is greater). If someone still wants to take him we get 2 first rounders as compensation.
Transition tag—Average of the top 10 players at his position. We get the right to match their offer. If we don’t he walks and we receive no compensation.
The other thing about an uncapped year is that it takes 6 years in the league to become an unrestricted free agent.
Just went looking at these players again
Most of these guys won’t be available to us in an uncapped year. FA requires six years of service instead of four.
FA in an uncapped year at positions of need
Offensive Tackle
Chad Clifton
Mike Gandy
Brandon Gorin
Cornell Green
Artis Hicks
Jon Jansen
Levi Jones
Scott Kooistra
Damion McIntosh
Tony Pashos
Ephraim Salaam
Barry Sims
Mark Tauscher
Langston Walker
Mike Williams
Offensive Guard
Eugene Amano
Jeremy Bridges
Damion Cook
Kynan Forney
Rex Hadnot
Ben Hamilton
Russ Hochstein
Montrae Holland
Stephen Neal
Chester Pitts
Tutan Reyes
Ryan Tucker
Keydrick Vincent
Bobbie Williams
Billy Yates
Safety
Will Allen
Mike Brown
Tyrone Carter
Ryan Clark
Nick Ferguson
Todd Johnson
Sean Jones
Kevin Kaesviharn
Ty Law
Marquand Manuel
Lawyer Milloy
Donnie Nickey
Jermaine Phillips
Pierson Prioleau
Mark Roman
Brian Russell
Bryan Scott
Darren Sharper
Matt Ware
Roy Williams
That’s a pretty sad list. Clifton is 33 and won’t be our answer at Tackle. Bobbie Williams could be a good pickup at guard for us. The safety class has some good names there so we might be able to fill that need through FA rather than the draft.
We may end up having to go with the draft to fix our problems.
Source for the names comes from Jason La Confora
UFA’s in uncapped year
by smileyman on Nov 24, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
See
we need to draft a Tackle with our very first pick. There is not one guy there that is above average and we already have two that are on the list
I've come to that conclusion as well
I thought we might be able to fill the need in FA but it looks to be an uncapped year and there won’t be any tackles worth getting in FA. Guards maybe, but not tackles.
We don't need a tackle above average
Just get one that is above atrocious!!!!! An average RT is still 50% of an improvement. I’d same the it’s almost the same story for a guard too.
Now safety, it’s not worth the money unless he is above average. We have close enough to average now. A mild increase won’t make a big difference in pass defense.
Agreed
But I’d certainly take a tackle in the draft if I thought he would be pretty good.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:25 AM PST up reply actions
Snee won't be available if it's an uncapped year
He was drafted in ’04 which makes this his 5th year.
Uncapped year
needs 6 years of experience to be a free agent. Snee has 5.
If a new CBA is reached then all bets are off but right now we have to assume that there will be no new agreement.
Also in an uncapped year teams have 3 tags they can use instead of 2.
Do you have a link to an article
I have not read that. I am not doubting you, I just would like to see it
I’ve read it several times by different posters on this website. Even on a few beat writes blogs explaining the 49ers potential free agents.
Yes
So Baas cannot be free agent after the season without a new CBA because it would be his 5th year. Franklin is in his 7th year so he available for free agency.
Now that you have me thinking about it I read this in the Golden Nuggets posted just last week.
There are three tags available
in an uncapped year.
1 franchise tag. This can be exclusive (average salary of top 5 players at that position or 120% of previous year’s salary), or non exclusive (same salary but teams can still acquire the player—if they do we get two first rounders in compensation).
2 transition tags—average of top 10 players at that position or 120% of previous year’s salary. Team has right of first refusal, so if someone offers the player a better deal we have 7 days to match it. If the team doesn’t there is no compensation awarded.
Here ya go
I’ve been doing some reading on it the past couple days
Pat Kirwin
SportsBusinessJournal
3rd String Safety
Andrew Brandt
Jason La Canfora
Thanks, I had no idea
It is going to be a drought for FA’s…
La Canfora’s article was the most telling. SOunds like high priced underachieving talent will be the only ones hitting the market. We need to stay away from FA.
We better do great in the draft
I hate to point this out, but most of those options are probably still better than Marvel Smith and Brandon Jones.
Excuse me while I punch the wall.
Yeah
It was a real let down when I saw those numbers. We could upgrade at guard with FA. Clifton might be worth looking at as a backup to Pashos. Safety is a real possibility as there are several decent ones available.
I don't want any 30 yr old Lineman
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Neither do I
which is why I listed him as a posibility at backup.
Barry Sims is 34 and is a great backup at LT.
I am all for it unless a player slips to that first pick
Like Suh or Berry
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
If Berry slips to our first 1st round pick the only way I wouldn't want him is if Okung also was available there
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Some of the leagues best lineman weren't drafted as well
"Optimist Prime"
I'll say it over and over Crabtree was not the pick we NEEDED, at least until he scores with 100yds receiving.
Ok can we come to some agreement as far as needs?
Maybe I’m looking at things stupidly but I’d think you want to start with needs, rank those, then look at FA possibilities and Draft possibilities and then come up with a list of ways to fill those needs. Something like that.
So for example we’d have somethng like this at the end: (JUst a snippet as an example)
Need #1: RT/LT – FA possibilities: (List of possible FAs) Draft Possibilites: (List of Draft possibilities)
FA Notes: (Here would go notes on each of the FAs as far as viability and possibility of getting them)
Draft Notes: (Here would go notes as far as possible places in the draft each would be possible etc.)
…..
Need #N…
That sound about right? Based on that here’s the needs as I see them with understanding that there may be different perspectives: RT/LT, OG, DB, NT (if we don’t get an extension of some sort done with Franklin), Pass Rush DE or LB, QB and WR and depth players etc.
Will await the bullets. :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 23, 2009 3:28 PM PST reply actions
My wish list
1. RT
2. OLB edge rusher
3. CB
4. Guard
5. QB (obviously dependant on the right guy being there for our pick, more than any other spot)
6. Safety
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 24, 2009 1:44 AM PST up reply actions
Oh yes and I forgot
7. Kick returner
Hopefully they’ll get one of those at some point.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 24, 2009 1:45 AM PST up reply actions
Safety at 6?
I think it’s way too low, with the way our DB’s perform.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Maybe
What would you move it ahead of though? I guess QB maybe, depending on Smith’s performance. The other needs I think are more glaring. Don’t get me wrong, I do think an upgrade is needed, but I think the offensive line and pass rush have been bigger problems. Maybe B should be lower, my mind is probably clouded because of how bad Spencer, Brown, and Bly played last week.. :-(
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:29 AM PST up reply actions
Where are the best options in FA
I think Merriman would be fine to add and should be cheap since teams aren’t gonna throw a lot of money at him. Then that eliminates the OLB need because Haralson will get more one on one.
1. OL
2. DB’s period
3. Pass Rush I think DE is more of a need and we may want to look at Tommie Harris who would be nasty as a 3-4 DE
4. Guard
5. KR/PR
With our O line and OC we don’t know what we have at Qb, but Grbac did throw for 3500 yds with Raye
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I thought he was in the last year of his deal
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
That makes him a restricted free agent. So the chargers need to give him a qualifying offer then he can shop himself around and they have the right to match any contract he finds, if they choose to match he stays.
Teams have used this in the past to balloon contracts as a poison bill against the right’s owning team’s cap space, but without the cap there is even less incentive to spend much time working on a contract for a RFA not your own.
As an example look at how Minnesota got Hutch with a little clause that’s been made against the rules since then. His contract stated that if half the games he played were in Seattle that the whole contract became guaranteed which is a massive hit to the cap, and a situation that would only occur if he was playing for Seattle.
In an uncapped year the whole game changes
6 years to be an UFA.
If you go after a restricted free agent you have have to not only pay the player money but offer the other team compensation.
Can someone provide the actual rules for Restricted FAs?
And also, who will potentially be FAs and UFAs this offseason
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I'm not an expert, so take this for what it's worth
My understanding is that when a player is an RFA the team has the right to match whatever contract offer he receives. If they match, then they retain that player’s service.
So if the Niners want him... and will pay him.. it is possible that they can still sign him
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
They also have to compensate the team
If it’s a good player usually that means giving up a 1st and an 3rd round pick, or at the very least a 1st rounder.
Basically, there’s no chance the Niners get McNeill if there’s no cap.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 2:27 AM PST up reply actions
Don’t they have to franchise him to receive picks? I thought the NFL compensated teams for the other lost players in free agency, but they don’t take away picks they add picks to the end of the draft rounds.
We're talking about restricted free agents
Based on the qualifying offer you make to them you get compensation if they sign elsewhere. The team can get either a 1st and 3rd round pick, just a 1st round pick, just a 2nd round pick, or the original round the player was drafted in as compensation for signing elsewhere. A guy like McNeill would undoubtedly get the highest qualifying offer (I think that’s somewhere between 2 and 3 million) so any team that signed him would have to fork over their 1st and 3rd round picks if San Diego didn’t want to match the offer.
Here’s an explanation from Ask the Commish:
A RFA is “any Veteran player with three or more accrued seasons, but less than five accrued seasons (or less than four accrued seasons in any capped year)… At the expiration of his last Player Contract during such period… [the player] shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any club, and any club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any such player, subject to… certain restrictions.” The restrictions are the fun part.
The player’s original team maintains the First Refusal Right if the team tenders a contract offer of one year at $1.01 M.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at the Player’s Original Draft Round (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at the same amount(s) listed above OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Second Round Draft Selection (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $$1.545 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and First Round Draft Selection (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $2.198 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and First Round Draft Selection and Third Round Draft Selection (both from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $2.792 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
I sure hope they get a new CBA in place before then
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
The 49ers
plan on franchising Franklin so i don’t think NT will be much of a need.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 23, 2009 6:12 PM PST reply actions
My wish list
1a. OT
2b. S
3. QB
4. OL (best available) G or T
5. WR/RB/ basically someone who will be good returning kickoffs and punts.
6. LB
7. DE
My wish list revised
1a. OT
1b. S
2. QB
3. OL (best available) G or T
4. WR/RB/ basically someone who will be good returning kickoffs and punts.
5. LB
6. DE
7. OL (best available) G or T
My Kool-Aid lineup
Emulated Offense of the K-GUN Offense the Bills ran in the 90’s
QB- Alex Smith/ Ryan Mallett (#2 pick 2010 draft)/ Shaun Hill
RB- Frank Gore/ C.J. Spiller (#4 pick 2010 draft) not probable at #4 but its kool-aid.
WR- Michael Crabtree
WR- Josh Morgan
WR- Jason Hill
TE- Vernon Davis/ Delanie Walker
LT- Trent Williams, Russell Okung, or Ciron Black (#1a pick 2010 Draft)
LG- Chris Snee (Free agency via NY Giants)
C- Eric Heitmann
RG- Chilo Rachal
RT- Joe Staley
DE- Kendrick Clancy (Free agency via NO Saints)
NT- Abrayo Franklin
DE- Justin Smith
OLB- Parys Haralson
ILB- Takeo Spikes
ILB- Patrick Willis
OLB- Kirk Morrison (Free agency via Oakland Raiders)
CB- Nate Clements
CB- Shawnte Spencer
SS- Reggie Smith
FS- Eric Berry (#1b pick 2010 draft) also probably not goin to be there/ kool-aid
5DB- Tarel Brown
KR- C.J. Spiller
PR- C.J. Spiller
K- Joe Nedney
P- Andy Lee
Other than Ryan Mallet as backup QB
I like this lineup. I don’t think Mallet will fall to the second round. Too many teams in need of a QB and his stock is pretty high (WalterFootball.com has him going to the Redskins).
I’d like to see us grab a LT in FA rather than pick one up in the draft. If we can do that I wouldn’t be opposed to us trading one of the #1’s and a 3rd to move up into the top 5 to grab Berry. Is he worth it though? Most everybody seems to think that he’s the real deal and will be a superstar in the league. If we can do that and not pay out first round money to two picks it might be worth it. We could probably get a good backup QB in the 3rd round with this draft.
It's my Kool-Aid line-up
Berry prob won’t and either will Spiller… If any of those 3 (Berry 1st, Mallett 2nd, and Spiller 3rd or so) did fall to us, I’d be stoked. I don’t think McNeil will be available for FA and I am not sure there is another OT like that in FA. If we are building a franchise, why not draft our own McNeil in one of the guys mentioned?
McNeill will hit FA
but he’ll be expensive if we want to get him. Berry might fall to us. I went and looked at the draft history for the last 10 years and no safety has ever been drafted in the top 5. The highest was drafted 6. It’s very possible that he might fall to 7 or 8 and that might be the pick we end up holding from Carolina.
Even in the second round I don’t like Mallet. He’s not got enough playing time in at the college level.
McNeil
exactly and someone will fork out more cash than the Yorks will be willing to spend. Especially since next year will be uncapped.
Carolina
They’ve been playing a bit better and I am guessing they may finish about 7-9 or so….not sure where that will put the pick but most likely somewhere in the middle
I would be stoked if Berry falls to us but I am not expecting it.
And curious… have you actually watched an entire game of Mallet? He looks almost identical to Phillip Rivers in college in his play
I think the failure ratio on QBs with only 2 years experience
is too high to justify a pick on him.
And I just realized that McNeil will not be a FA in an uncapped year. In an uncapped year FA requires 6 years of service and he’s only got 4.
Is that just a guess on the ratio or something you looked up? If you go to youtube and look up the highlights of Mallett and then also Rivers in college yu will be amazed at how uncanny the resemblance is. Case Keenum is another good option not going to be drafted in the 1st.
Mallett’s college highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZAFLho2xo
Rivers college highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrVhHFXgaCQ
I do see the similarities
As far as the ratio thing—I’m actually working on a fanpost where I’m going through the starting QBs in the league right now and applying Parcell’s famous (infamous?) formula to them. That formula being 3 yrs as a starter, senior/earned college degree, 23 wins.
You’d be surprised how many of the mediocre QBs in the league don’t meet that formula.
Biggest example is the Ryan Leaf/Peyton Manning debate. Both were starters, both had 23 wins. Peyton Manning had 3 years starting Ryan Leaf only had two. Leaf turned out to be one of the biggest busts of all time, Manning is going to the Hall of Fame when he’s done.
Did you know that this is Malletts 3rd year though?
He went to Michigan 1st year (2007) and transfered to Arkansas the 2008 season. This (2009) is his 3rd year.
I didn't know that
Thanks for pointing that out. I thought he’d only been playing for 2 years.
BTW, my favorite QB coming out? Max Hall
Washington State vs BYU 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTxDz_LCAOM
You see some very nice throws into coverage as well as some great plays from Jake Locker. Just skip past all the boring interview crap.
Well kinda
He had to red shirt his 2nd year because of the NCAA rules on transfering but he ran the scout team so it’s not like he was not doing anything. There are guys like Tom Brady you sit behind until their senior years… So you can just never tell for sure
Tom Brady
what I meant to say is: There are guys like him that do not get to play until their Sr. and ride the bench until then
Joe Montana never would have passed the Parcell’s criteria.
His criteria more identifies QB prodigies than QB prospects. You have to be a good enough, young enough QB to land a scholarship to a big school and start by your sophomore season. There are such things as late bloomers or college coaches with piss poor talent evaluation skills and alternative motivations.
Plus this is football, there never is a silver bullet.
I think Parcell's criteria is a pretty good way
to eliminate busts before they happen though. There are always exceptions, but it’s a pretty good general guideline in my opinion.
Naw
OU just sucks without Bradford in there. Landry Jones is a freshmen and pretty good and has a good shot going pro in a few years but not the same team with Sam gone.
I like the QB in FSU
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Mallett and Rivers?
To be honest I don’t think the two could be much farther apart in terms of playing style.
Mallett has an absolute cannon (maybe the strongest arm in college football), Rivers had big time question marks about his arm strength coming out of college. Even now his arm strength is not that good. But Rivers was ridiculously accurate in college (and that has carried over to the pros) while Mallett is all over the place with his accuracy, still very erratic at this point. Mallett still has poor footwork because he’s so big, while Rivers was known for his excellent pocket presence.
I’d say Mallett is a lot more comparable to Jamarcus Russell at this point than Rivers. And when I say that I don’t mean that he’s destined to be an absolutely epic bust, I think he could potentially be great given time, but they have similiar skill sets (worlds of potential, big arms and huge frames) and were both very raw. I think Mallett needs at least another year of college, and I wouldn’t take him in the first round if he came out this year.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:48 AM PST up reply actions
You're nuts
I question your perception at times. Phillip Rivers has a weak arm? whoa! Mallett to Russell is a big LOL. And if Mallett misses a pass here and there, who cares? He has 3 games with 5 TD’s and 2 with 4TD’s and few with 3. He only has 5 total picks overall for the season so…. not sure what you’re looking at there. Bust? I guess you’re using your psycic abilities again huh?
Mallett
would learn more sitting behind a QB in the NFL then one more year at Arkansas. At least that would benefit his professional career better in that way.
Going back for one more year in college may get him more money but definitely not enhance his chances at a fat 2nd contract.
It'll make him a lot better prepared
Because he’s actually playing and getting the experience, rather than just carrying a clipboard. He still has quite a few flaws to work out and doesn’t have much college experience anyway.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
So he wouldn't be taking reps in practice and running a prep squad if he got drafted?
I mean he already declared anyway…so that really should not even be a topic. College to Pro is a huge leap and there is a big diffence in competition level. The sooner the better. It’s not like he is a sophmore coming out or anything.
Your rudeness is much appreciated
Yes, Rivers did have questions about his arm strength coming out of college, I’m not sure why your debating that. He’s never been known as having a strong arm, I’d say his arm strength is just adequate, not weak or strong. Mallett has an unquestionably very strong arm, so which part of that are you debating?
I laid it out to you how Mallett compares to Russell, and that’s not necessarily a knock on him. I’m comparing them as prospects, not as pro players (although if you read my post you should have known that). Very strong arms, very big dudes, erratic accuracy, and very raw. It’s a much better comparison than Rivers.
And if Mallett misses a pass here and there, who cares?
This statement is downright absurd. Accuracy is one of the most important factors when judging a QB. Sure Mallett has carved up Missouri State and Troy, but look at his completion rates against the 3 best defenses he’s faced so far:
Alabama: 12-35, 34.3%
Florida: 12-27, 44.4%
Ole Miss: 12-34, 35.3%
So he’s completing less than 40% of his passes against elite competition. That’s a huge red flag, and his footwork is part of the problem. Because he’s so tall he hasn’t yet developed the footwork to put himself in a good position to throw quickly, and his mechanics still aren’t good.
I did not say in the least that I think he’ll be a bust, don’t put words in my mouth. I said he’s very raw, and I think he could be a top 10 overall pick with another year or two in college. But he’s not ready yet, and I wouldn’t use a first round pick on him if he came out this year.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
You just find some kind of satisfaction
out of trying to dismantle any kind of comparision. Even though you try, you fail, miserably. Tune perception…
This is a rifle of an arm at times; when he needs to (not by any means “adequate” or below average. He does finess the ball when he needs to also. Maybe thats where you’re confusing “adequate arm strength” for touch. But anyway, other people see it…and thats what leads me believe what I stated in the subject title:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xly7-B-omCw
Again, questioning your perception.
No, I don't fail miserably
You being ignorant to the facts is not my fault. Some proof that Rivers was not considered to have a good arm out of college:
From Wikipedia:
He was viewed by many prognosticators as the best quarterback in a draft that included Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger. But despite Rivers’ record of success in college and remarkable accuracy (72% completion percentage for his senior season), questions about his lack of arm strength and his unorthodox side-arm throwing motion were concerns for some NFL GMs.
On NFL Fanhouse (where Rivers gets beaten by a high school kid in an arm strength competition):
To be fair, Rivers, who has been criticized for lacking arm strength
From Phil Simms:
“If your looking for a down-the-field thrower, he is not the guy,” former NFL quarterback Phil Simms said. “There are plenty of offenses that he could fit into, but it depends on what you’re going to do.”
From a Yahoo Sports Q and A:
When you were coming out of North Carolina State, the belief was that with your accuracy and perceived lack of arm strength you would have been better suited for a West Cost-type offense that highlighted the shorter game.
From Armchair GM:
Despite Rivers’ fantastic record of success in college and remarkable accuracy (72% completion percentage for his senior season), questions about his lack of arm strength and his unorthodox side-arm throwing motion put him behind Manning and Roethlisberger on most NFL Draft boards.
So let’s see, we’ve got Rivers, who was incredibly accurate, completing 72% of his passes, and also made 51 college starts so he had a ton of time to get experience and for scouts to evaluate him, but was almost universally criticized for his lack of arm strength.
Then there’s Mallett, whose got perhaps the best arm in college football, but has yet to complete even 60% of his passes, has a grand total of 14 college starts, and has little to no pocket presence because of his size.
Sorry man, it was just an awful comparison. You can either admit you were wrong or you can keep on believing that Mallett has anything in common with Rivers, in which case I have no interest in talking with you about it. Don’t insult me when you don’t know what your talking about.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
There arent very many credable sources there besides Simms
and I have seen Rivers throw the ball 60 yards so… innaccurate assessment…go to youtube…you will see it first hand for yourself and not have to rely on these bogus sources that are in all actuallity an opinion. Opinion that again are not good sources IMO.
I’m not going to even get in to it anymore here. You are teetering on the cusp of delusion here. It was not at all a bad comparison. Sorry man… you fail again. You obviously need glasses, that is if you even bothered to look at the video I provided of the comparison.
Delusion, right
The fact that they have ZERO in common has nothing to do with it.
Mallett has great arm strength, Rivers does not.
Rivers has great accuracy, Mallett has mediocre/bad accuracy.
Rivers had 51 college starts, Mallett has 14.
Mallett has 2 inches and 20-25 pounds on Rivers.
That sure sounds like delusion to me!
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
According to you
there are other factors such as the rest of the team one plays on. For the last time, if you pay attention…i mean truly Brendan…pay attention… then you might see that the mechanics there are almost cloned from Rivers in Mallett.
But I expect some sort of lousy attempt again to discount that FACT with your bogus sources and theories.
I’m finished with this topic now. You have bad credit in trying to discredit something that you obviously just at this very moment started to research.
You can admit you've got a man-crush on Mallet
That’s ok.
I’ve got a mancrush on Hall but I’m realistic enough to know that he’s 2nd/3rd round material.
By the way, his favorite receiver last year—Austin Collie who was picked in the 1st round last year and his having a pretty good year for Indy (already at 413 yds receiving).
I dont care one way or another about Mallett
but this guy Scolari is notorious for coming in and trying to discredit any comparision. Thats his thing or something…
When your comparisons are bad
Yeah, I do discredit them. If you make ones that make even decent sense, I probably won’t say anything.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Strange
you’re the only one saying anything about the comparison in disagreement. In fact, someone else above could see the similarities.
You need to tune in.
Ok
We’re done. Believe whatever you want Drew. Rivers and Mallett are extremely different quarterbacks in nearly every aspect, but hey, why let the truth get in the way of a prospect comparison?
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
Mine, and that of every draft expert out there. The next scouting report you link to that differs will be the first.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
Here's one better for ya: Mel Kiper's assessment
8. Philip Rivers, QB, N.C. State (6-4½, 230) | previous ranking: 23
Rivers was a constant on my top-five weekly Heisman list in 2003 because of his phenomenal performance. Look at his ’03 numbers: He completed 71 percent of his passes, with 4,016 yards, 29 TDs and just seven interceptions. Rivers has great size and a good arm, though his lower release point could be a question mark and his footwork is not polished. But he makes up for that low release with an incredibly quick, hair-trigger release. Rivers is accurate, smart and an excellent leader with great instincts. He stole the show at the Senior Bowl in both practice and the game, taking home MVP honors and vaulting himself into the top 10.
Both those attributes highlighted, Mallett obviously posseses as well.
Now, Mel’s take on Mallet:
“The SEC product has a good arm and has put up some really impressive stats lately. In his past four games, Mallett has thrown nine touchdowns to only one interception, and he’s maintained a completion percentage of 67.3 and a mind-boggling YPA of 11.6.”
But we all should take Brendans expertise analysis or perhaps Yahoo Sports or NFL Fanhouse’s over Mel Kipers
You'd do applying this to yourself
When Drew says something in contradiction to nearly every single draft source you can find, Drew is probably wrong.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm
weird I only saw Phil frikin Simms in there…. didn’t see any of the so-called draft experts in your little draw up there. Not to mention the fact that I can pull up all the footage of him on youtube to shred your bogus theory apart. I can certainly do that if you keep running your mouth carelessly
Go look up the draft reports then
Find some that says Rivers has good arm strength, I’d love to see them.
What was my bogus theory by the way? I don’t have any theories, other than that Rivers didn’t have good arm strength in college based on 99% of the scouting reports and evaluations I’ve ever seen. Were you not an NFL fan in 2004? Or didn’t follow the draft? If so I have a hard time believing you didn’t already know this, they talked about his questionable arm strength all the time.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
Is that always your rebut? “How long have you been watching football?” get some new material man…its getting played out.
To be honest… Ussually I go off of what I see…not what other media sources are saying. You on the other hand? …eat right out of the hands you feed you the crap you’re eating
It's funny
I’ve seen you use the same “rebut” multiple times.
Yes, I trust Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, and co. more than you, sorry. If you watched the draft stuff you would know that the big knock on Rivers was his arm strength.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
I havent insulted you
you insult yourself by trying to barge in and discredit something with bogus sources
This statement is downright absurd. Accuracy is one of the most important factors when judging a QB. Sure Mallett has carved up Missouri State and Troy, but look at his completion rates against the 3 best defenses he’s faced so far:
Alabama: 12-35, 34.3%
Florida: 12-27, 44.4%
Ole Miss: 12-34, 35.3%
Yeah you’re right…it couldn’t possibly have to do with the fact that his O-line got murdered in any 3 of those games…. or the WR’s being blanketed by superior DB’s… the comletion percentage isn’t always a true telling of what happened in those games. I actually watched the Florida and Alabama game so I happen to know the story behind those numbers
I saw the Florida game too
He didn’t look good at all. Anyway, I didn’t say it wasn’t partly because of his teammates but if you think those performances don’t mean anything then your in denial.
Bottomline, he’s still very inaccurate for a top quarterback prospect, Rivers was lauded for his accuracy. I think he can be very good given time, but I wouldn’t use a really high pick on him this year.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Ok then
You aren’t looking at the numbers or watching him closely enough. You can’t have watched him if you think he has the type of accuracy a first round pick usually possesses.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Man you got me there
I mean, how can I respond to such wonderful argumentation?
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
How are you supposed to be good or accurate in any game
if you have less than a second to throw the ball? That is not seeing the entire picture. You are taking bits and peices to make an assessment…its incomplete (your assessment that is)
Go read someone else's assesment then
It’s what any draft expert will tell you. Honestly, if you can’t see that he’s missed all sorts of easy throws during games then I question whether you actually watched him play or not.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Dude
For the last time, read the evaluation of ANY expert. Don’t trust me, google it yourself! No one was talking about Rivers’ arm strength in a good way.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
Because
I have hope that in a couple years after learning the NFL behind a veteran NFL QB (when he would be ready to play), that issue would have been dealt with and fixed by then. If its not fixed by then, then it doesn’t matter who’s in there anyway. Whoever would be the most durable would probably be the best candidate in the specific scenario or question that you present.
I am confident that Alex Smith will start again next year anyhow. If we change the offense and offensive play calling then having an average Oline will be good enough.
I am not promoting starting Mallett immediately if he was drafted by us.
Spiller will be available if we don't move down with our first pick
In another thread I trolled and said he bust but I was j/k. He will be a good back but its always hard to tell with backs just HOW good they will really be coming out of college. I knew AP would be good, damn good but didn’t know he’d be at this point already. Chris Johnson to me was another undersized burner, who knew he’d develop the footwork that he has? On the other hand, Herschel Walker was 1 of the 3 greatest college backs ever and he didn’t bust but he wasn’t the same at the pro level. He certainly set one franchise up for years of success though.
The only guy I could look at coming out of college and say surefire he will be a star is Barry Sanders. Only when a guy can do things that human beings should not be able to do, (Barry’s ability to stop instantly and immediately start in another direction), can I say he cannot fail without injury. For the record, if I ever see another Barry Sanders I will be the first to buy a ticket and screw the Lions for eternity for locking him out when he wanted to go to a winning franchise.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 24, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
And to think
Barry Sanders Jr. looks exactly like his Dad on the gridiron. I cant wait to see him in college next year
Really???
I haven’t seen the kid play at all… I’m gonna have to get the College Gameday package if this is true
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 25, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
I was just reading on him
Don’t think he’ll be in college next year unless he’s a prodigy. As of Dec 11, 2008 he was a freshman in HS. And yes the vid I saw of him was impressive to say the least. If whatever black magic allowed Barry’s tendons to take the forces involved in moving like he did can be genetically passed on to his son… We are all blessed for it.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 12:15 AM PST up reply actions
Well that just sucks haha
I got my hopes up for that…oh well. 5 more years minimum before we could see him in the NFL
You'd take Spiller with a first round pick?
I mean, I think he’s awesome, but doesn’t it seem like a bit of a waste of resources to use that high of a pick on a running back with Gore still likely seeing most of the playing time for at least the next couple years?
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 2:34 AM PST up reply actions
Not with our needs
Spiller will end up a Redskin if they don’t go QB
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
LOL
I think it is funny that whenever someone doesnt like a pick they say that pick will be going to the Redskins. I have seen about 20 different players suggested going to the Redskins in the first round.
I think your more on point with the QB statement than Spiller for the Redskins. Portis and Betts are good enough that they dont need a RB until late, if at all.
I like Spiller
I just expect the Raiders and Redskins to make the wrong choices. I don’t think the niners would draft a rb in round 1
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Oh no way
The Niners draft a RB in round 1. Spiller falling to us later on prob wont happen. I doubt a RB of any sort will go before the top 15 though.
Tampa needs a solid back they bombed with the FA pick last year
But maybe it’s too much money to tie up for the position, and their defense is suspect. Other than that Cleveland needs a rb but will pick too high to get one and the chiefs
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Also
I think that Cleveland does need a RB but they will be picking 1st or 2nd and they wont go RB I dont think
see above
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
He's not a long term answer
and hes 27, meaning he only has another year or two left as a RB.
Less than 500 yds rushing this season.
Injury prone
When has he had a full season?
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
No
You said you’d be stocked if Spiller fell to us. In my mind he’s a lock as a first round pick, and has a good chance of going in the top half of the first round, so I figured you meant you wanted him to fall to us in the first.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
I would be stoked
but it was in a Kool-Aid line-up where I have him falling to our 4th pick (which is not logical). Hence why it was a “Kool-Aid” line-up. 3rd probably would not even be likely. But if you read further I said that it would not be likely for us to get Mallett, Berry, or Spiller.
Oh
Yeah, there’s zero chance he falls that far, barring catastrophic injury. I have a hard time seeing him falling to the second round, honestly.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
So you are giving up on Nate Davis already?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Well Put!
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Looks pretty damn good!
are you sure about Clements over Brown?
How good a pass rusher is Morrison?
We need a real assasin out there i think.
I'm not sure about Clements over Brown
as rlott#42 mentined though he got dusted a couple times since he has been in there and missed a few tackles. I think he will get better though. Clements get burnt here and there but he is a sure tackler.
Morrison is super fast and plays the game all over the field like Willis. He is not Willis though just using that as a reference. Imagine if all we did is sent Willis on blitzes… With that type of talent at all 4 LB positions we could bring the heat from all over and keep opposing offenses guessing. Morrison could definitely beat Tackles in speed and power though.
Problem with this scenario
is that none of your FA acquisitions will be available in an uncapped year. Not without us giving up compensation to their current team for it.
PS. Nice Oline.
Do you think Rachal and Heitman can be solid next year?
Are they the best of what we have out there now??
I do
Heitmann is a solid center. Rachal has made good strides. Baas is only so-so. He’s hurt plus he’s a FA next year—I bet he’s gone. Snyder of course is terrible. Pashos isn’t really good either so we need a replacement there.
Staley is a good LT and Sims is a good backup.
How I see the 2010 NFL Draft order as of Week 12
#1- Browns
- Bucs
- Rams
- Lions
- Raiders
- Redskins
- Chiefs
- Seahawks
- Bills
- Jets
- Bears
- Titans
- 49ers (From Panthers)
- Dolphins
- 49ers
- Texans
- Giants
- Jaguars
- Falcons
- Ravens
- Seahawks (From Broncos)
- Packers
- Chargers
- Cowboys
- Bengals
- Cardinals
- Steelers
- Eagles
- Colts
- Vikings
- Patriots
- Saints
(Pats @ Saints Week 12) SuperBowl Preview… You heard it hear 1st… get your popcorn.
Dont know what happened
Tried to bold all the teams and it messed with the numbers
anyway its supposed to start with the Browns at 1. Bucs at 2….and so on down the line to the Saints at the 32nd pick
Fixed
1. Browns
2. Bucs
3. Rams
4. Lions
5. Raiders
6. Redskins
7. Chiefs
8. Seahawks
9. Bills
10. Jets
11. Bears
12. Titans
13. 49ers (From Panthers)
14. Dolphins
15. 49ers
16. Texans
17. Giants
18. Jaguars
19. Falcons
20. Ravens
21. Seahawks (From Broncos)
22. Packers
23. Chargers
24. Cowboys
25. Bengals
26. Cardinals
27. Steelers
28. Eagles
29. Colts
30. Vikings
31. Patriots
32. Saints
sadly
I think the Jets and Titans may finish better than this…perhaps better than the 9ers. Look if we’re not making the playoffs…i’m half-tempted to say tank the record for the picks.
And at the rate we’re going…our pick may be higher than the panthers’.
Carolina's schedule is still pretty nasty down the stretch -- I'll base mine on the remaining schedules
@Jets and @Giants and Tampa at home are their easy games… but they also play Vikings, NE and NO.
3 almost guaranteed losses. and 2 more they quite possibly lose.
Looking at the schedules teams have remaining here’s my final draft order for the top 15
1-4. Interchangeable Browns Rams Bucs Lions
5. Bills (3-13)
6. Washington (4-12) (could easily be 3-13 but they will beat Dallas @ home)
7. Chiefs (5-11)
8. Titans (5-11) (loses at Seattle in the final game)
9. Oakland (5-11)
10. Niners (from Carolina) (5-11)
11. Seachickens (6-10)
12. Bears (6-10)
13. Niners (7-9)
14. NYJ (7-9)
15. Houston (8-8)
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 1:31 AM PST up reply actions
I do think there is a great possibility that the niners will win more than one more game
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Yeah
I have us winning 3 more.
That’s the Carolina pick.
Understandable though – When I was proofreading it looked weird to me the first time till I slowed down.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
So you only see the Titans winning one more game?
I haven’t looked at their schedule but it seems like with the way they’ve been playing lately they should win at least a few more…
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 2:29 AM PST up reply actions
Me too
Right now the TItans are playing ball like they did last year. I think they have a decent shot at going 8-8.
Agreed
And i like their roster so I’ll be rooting for them.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 3:01 AM PST up reply actions
Titans
I think they lose ALOT of momentum when Arizona and Indy come out and crush them in back to back weeks like is about to happen.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:02 AM PST up reply actions
The only teams I see them with a realistic shot of beating on that schedule
are the Lambs and Seachickens… And they are at the Seachickens in the last game of the season with nothing to play for but pride. Seachickens will be doing the same thing in front of the home crowd.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:04 AM PST up reply actions
I bet they beat the Cards this week
Especially if Warner doesn’t play.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 3:07 AM PST up reply actions
If Warner doesn't play
Who knows. But if Warner plays they stomp Tenn.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:12 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
Why? They lost to the Niners and the Panthers, I don’t see what makes you so sure they will beat the Titans.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 3:21 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know the miracle the Panthers pulled out to beat them
But we caught them early. This is about the time of year the Cards are going to hit their stride, (aside from the Warner injury)
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:23 AM PST up reply actions
And for the record
Warner practiced fully yesterday and today. He’s listed as Probable and barring something weird he’ll start.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:26 AM PST up reply actions
It really just depends on what Cardinals team shows up to play
They either looks like concentrated crap or reallly really good. And thats what it comes down to
Also
The best team Tenn has beaten during this stretch is us. Jacksonville has played a CUPCAKE schedule. I mean ridiculous… wins over – Stl, KC, Buf, and the Titans early on.
I mean they beat the Jets, Buffalo, KC, and the Rams by a combined 11 points!
They beat Houston by a score but got stomped by the Seachickens 41 – 0..
Tenn’s resurgence has come during a favorable part of the schedule. They beat a Jags team that defines lucky… Us by a score in a game we played horrible in… Buffalo… and got lucky as HELL against Houston. That is about to change.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yup I could be wrong
I was wrong about them losing to the Texans… I thank Gary Kubiak in large part for that.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:28 AM PST up reply actions
1. Cleveland
2. Rams
3. Buccaneers
4. Lions
5. Redskins
6. Raiders
7. 49ers (form Panthers)
8. Seahawks
9. Chiefs
10. Bills
11. Jets
12.49ers
13. Bears
14. Texans
15. Dolphins
16. Giants
17. Jaguars
18. Titans
19. Seahawks (form broncos)
20. Falcons
21. Ravens
22. Packers
23. Chargers
24. Eagles
25. Steelers
26. Cardinals
27. Cowboys
28. Patriots
29. Vikings
30. Bengals
31. Colts
32. Saints
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I like this one better.
although I still maintain that we have a good chance of picking higher with our own pick than the panthers’ pick…or that we may be very close.
I just caught myself saying I hope it’s a top 10 pick…then I started thinking about the holdouts this year…maybe I don’t hope that after all. We need a guy who will for sure be in camp ( no offense to crabtree, but we’re talking about vital needs here and they have to contribute immediately).
You do realize that the Panthers
have a 4-6 record right? And that they have been playing better since they began the season 0-3. They could pull off 2 or 3 more wins which would put them higher than the number 7 pick.
I imagine the Niners will finish with 7 or 8 wins. Teams in the NFL dont “tank” games for higer draft picks. I know its wishful thinking but it couldn’t be further from reality
I think some of those teams have more favorable matchups down the stretch and the Panthers still have Delhomme and they lost Gross for the season.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
They do you're right
but I find it hard to see the Panthers pick in the top 10. They do play the Bucs and couple others they could eek out
Jets Buccs Saints Patriots Vikings Giants
Their passing game is a no show and it’s getting cold. They can beat teams on the ground but not the Vikes Patriots Saints or suffering Giants. I think they win 1 or 2 more games.
Chiefs-SD 2Denver Buff Cleveland and Bengals
Seahawks STL SF HOU TB GB TENN CAR BUF TB ATL IND CIN
Bills-MIA JETS KC NE ATL IND
Jets
I am definitley wrong on the Bills but I would say the Panthers have the hardest sched left.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I think this weekend will show a lot as far as the Panthers
What they do against a bit of a reeling Jets will be a good indicator. Foxy (John Fox) has his job on the line right now. He hooked on to Jake’s tailcoats by giving him a 5 yr last year (I think it was last year) and if he doesn’t win tomorrow’s and do effectively against the Bucs (meaning a decisive win) then he’s out of there (and good for us means probably some of his good support coaches are going to be looking for employment as well.) Look at it like this would you like to go against the Saints Pats Vikings and Giants with each of them trying to not only get in the playoffs but also to try and get a decisive first round bye? So if you consider these next 2 as wins even, then the next 4 as losses, that puts them at 6-10 to finish out the season.
That being said, the only ones or our next 5 that can be considered cold pipe locks would be DET and STL. And trust me that’s trying to be as much of a realistic homer as I can be.
The others we can see going either way at least to a degree and we can see how this season has been for us, luck has not been in our sails. The way that SEA seems to be playing that’s a pretty good chance of a win but it’s still a bit ifffy (and maybe that’s just the sting from the losses talking). Yes there’s a chance we could run the table and god knows I would hope we do. But need to balance hope with reason.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
RLott
The Bills at best beat either the Jets or KC… They aren’t gonna beat both and they certainly don’t win any other game they have remaining.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 1:36 AM PST up reply actions
NM
you already corrected yourself below – props where props are due
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 1:37 AM PST up reply actions
Does It Matter With The Yorks In Charge??
What we all ought to be focusing on, is how do we get rid of the Yorks..Until we can convince the Yorks to sell, the rest of this stuff is meaningless..The losing and dysfunction will continue..
The Yorks are the problem, period..When you have an ownership family that runs of their own ego’s you have a recipe for disaster..
NOW WE HAVE THE 28 YEAR OLD DELUSIONAL KID
AND THE LOSING WILL CONTINUE UNABATED..
You can talk all you want about coaches and players and this and that, but until the Yorks sell, the losing will continue forever..
Mark my words!!!
The Yorks are not the problem.
They have made some mistakes over the years as any new owners would but they have progressed and I think that Jed being President is a positive move. He wants the 49ers to win just like his favorite Uncle did.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Just watching Eddie D's HOF on tv I got the feeling that Jed is going to work real hard to make his Uncle proud.
And yes, you are right, once Eddie D’ Jr took over things started to change. Jed has Eddie D. in his corner now… I have faith
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
We Need Football People To Run The Football Team, Not The Clampetts!!
Until Jed Clampett and his loser Dad realize they don’t have the ability to run a football organization and actually hire someone that does, the losing will continue for many years to come..There is not one person in the front office that has ever been involved with winning teams..McCoughan comes from one of the losingest teams in the NFL, Buffalo..The rest of the front office are pencil pushers with zero experience in the NFL
congratulations the sear
you are the worst/most annoying commenter ever
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
rocky0331232 or whatever and KORY SHEETS IS OUR FUTURE
Have been far more annoying in recent weeks
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
well sears winz today
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
rlott#42. Maybe we should get a poll going on the most annoying posts or posters?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I don't think Fooch likes those kinds of Post
plus I’d be too high on the list……..LOL
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
LOL good response.. Thanks
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
You're wrong
Where did you get the information that McCloughan came from Buffalo? He worked for the Packers and the Seahawks before coming to San Francisco. He was in Green Bay when they won the Super Bowl and he was Director of College Scouting in Seattle up until a year before they went to the Super Bowl (so I’m guessing he had some impact on that Super Bowl runner-up team).
Any thoughts on that Sear?
by David Fucillo on Nov 25, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Ahhhhhhhhhh
Crickets
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
John York wasn't going to help us out of mediocrity
But I’ve seen nothing but positives from Jed. Its almost like he actually cares about football enough to watch it.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 1:41 AM PST up reply actions
What do we (any of us) know about these guys?
Fishing to see what people think of these guys, a mix of FAs (or at least possible FAs) and draftees. Just seeing if maybe there’s some “hidden gems” or such out there.
1) Perrish Cox – CB OK State – Looks like he may be a good pick up and get us some corner help and also RS help. Maybe a second (or even third??) round pickup?
2) Juice Williams – QB/WR Illinois – Could he be like NE did with Edelman and give us a good Welker type on the team? Probably be out there late round or even in the Undrafted list.
3) Michael Roos – Is it looking like he will be a probable FA next year no matter the CBA situation or not?
4) Will Blackmon – Looks to me like he might be our new Rossum (3 Return TDs his first 3 yrs in the league) but not sure.
What are we left with if the CBA goes down the drain?
Just throwing some random thoughts and questions and ideas out there.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 11:28 AM PST reply actions
Juice Williams …we don’t need another Michael Robinson on the team. Waste of a pick there at any slot.
We do need a 3rd String true RB later in the rounds though.
make it a quick and agile one who can pass block
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Juice
Is an awesome first name though
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 1:43 AM PST up reply actions
Uncapped year will be really bad for FAs
Perrish Cox—All I know about him is what’s in the draft reports. It looks like he can return kicks and punts in addition to be playing CB. He’s projected 2nd (maybe 3rd) rd and might be worth picking up there.
Juice Williams—no thanks. I agree with Drew K’s assessment
Michael Roos—won’t be available if there’s not a new CBA
Will Blackmon—won’t be available unless he’s cut.
Juice - Thought it was either he was like Robinson or Edelman
And it appears that you guys feel the former not the latter. Oh well that’s one off the list.
Blackmon – I thought I saw a list of FAs that had him on the list. Oh well
Roos – So he’s a 4-5 yr FA huh? So no CBA, no chance at him.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Compare Juice to Edelman on the Pats? Yikes.
I’d compare Juice to Vick NOW not the Vick before. Edelman to Welker.
Thanks knew nothing about him figured you guys did.
Thanks for letting me know.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Draft List
Line:
We need a better line coach as much as we need a RT I believe.
I honestly think we use our 2nd 1st pick on a stud RT, I’m happy with Staley at LT and shooting for a tackle isn’t a guarantee so lets keep the known good player in place. Look at Galley, he’s turned out to be a guard, that’s why tackle is considered safe, you;ll likely get a player you can use in 1 of 4 positions.
Guards tend to be snagged lower down, Chilo I think will be good with another year and off season. Synder is a good versatile backup, I can see Baas being signed to be the interior backup and us drafting a guard. If that happens I think Wragge is the odd man out.
DB’s
We’ll have Clements back, Spencer has been damn good, and Brown is showing his youth a little, but still played pretty well, should only get better with experience.
We still have Reggie Smith and Curtis Taylor in the wings. I’m not sure we’ll need Bly, and if Walt comes back (doesn’t retire) he can be the veteran presence and 4th CB.
LB’s
We need to get anther rush OLB. We can rotate between Lawson, Haralson and the rook, keep them all fresher and better consistent pressure. Brooks could come on still, and Lawson could learn a few more moves, but I see Briggs out and new body in.
Interior: I think we’re set pretty well with if we resign both Spikes and Wilhelm with McKillop in the wings. If McKillop is ready, then don’t sign 1 of the other 2.
RB
I’d love to get a sure handed burner of a RB for change of pace and possibly return duty.
DL
I feel good about this group overall, we get some decent pressure from the 3 guys, and good penetration. Soap and Balmer have been the weaker links, but Balmer will be entering his 3rd year next year and that is when DL typically has a light turn on, he’s been serviceable as it currently stands. Even our depth is pretty good with McDonald and Ricky Jean.
WR
Bruce is gone, as is Battle I believe. I see Hill, Crabs, Morgan and Jones going forward. Likely a 5th that isn’t on the team already, could be a spot for a returner.
QB
I’m actually good with the 3 QB’s we have. Nate could be the long term answer, Alex has been good when things are set to his strengths, Hill is an awesome fill in guy.
TE
Not sure we do anything here really, other than lock up VD with a 5yr or so deal. Lets face it, you won’t find a better red zone TE in the draft or FA market anytime soon.
Special Teams
Nedney should be good for at least a few more years, and Lee is awesome. Jennings gets the job done and isn’t going anywhere. Still need a returner, preferably out of the draft, they tend to lose a step in teh return game pretty fast (Hall, Hester, both were huge for a short time only, but solid for a long time after).
I think you nailed it or a large part of it with your first sentence
We need a better O Line Coach. There have been mistakes made by the players but if we look at his resume and at the current results there seem to be some problems. We had to pick him up late in the ball game I believe so we didn’t have too much as far as choices and there are certainly not a bevy of good O Line Coaches waiting in the unemployment line at the moment so a knee jerk fire is not advisable nor going to happen right now. But in the offseason when some of these team reorganizations happen there may be some waiting that we can pick up. Not saying we don’t need to make some changes as far as players but saying that is a heavy need.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
I agree.. a good OL coach is the 1st and foremost need
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
In the model of Drew K, here's my fantasy team for next year
QB- Alex Smith/ Max Hall (3rd rd)/Shaun Hill (Hill and Hall can battle out for #2 and #3)
RB- Frank Gore/M-Rob/Noel Devine (available in the 4th and has a 4.31 speed. Gets comparisons to Darren Sproles).
WR- Michael Crabtree
WR- Josh Morgan
WR- Jason Hill
TE- Vernon Davis/ Delanie Walker
LT- Joe Staley
LG- Mike Davis (2nd round) He can also play LT if needed.
C- Eric Heitmann
RG- Chilo Rachal
RT- Bruce Campbell/Bryan Bulaga (whichever is available with our 2nd #1)
DE- Isaac Sopoaga (he’s not outsanding but we signed him to a 5 yr contract last year)
NT- Abrayo Franklin
DE- Justin Smith
OLB- Haralson
ILB- Takeo Spikes
ILB- Patrick Willis
OLB- Lawson (I’d like an upgrade here but I just don’t see how we can)
CB- Nate Clements
CB- Shawnte Spencer
SS- Reggie Smith
FS- Eric Berry (#1b pick 2010 draft) I can see him slipping to 7 or 8 and I think our 1st pick will be there
5DB- Tarel Brown
KR- Noel Devine
PR- Noel Devine
K- Joe Nedney
P- Andy Lee
I’d like to upgrade our OLB spots but with an uncapped year there aren’t gonna be many OLB worth grabbing and none I’d want to pick up early in the draft.
My draft would look like this
1a—Eric Berry. I think this pick will be around 8 or 9 and I can see him slipping that far. Otherwise it’s best lineman available.
1b—Bruce Cample or Bryan Bulaga, whichever is available
2nd—Mike Davis
3rd—Max Hall
4th—Noel Devine
Rest of the rounds would be BPA
If we were going to run that lineup
I would move M-Rob to backup FB….or maybe even primary if we were running the offense I mentioned. You booted Coffee…I still think he will be good as a pure runner, not much in the passing game though. So the only thing I would change in your lineup is Gore/ Coffee/ and Devine…. but then you’re stuck sort of the same scenario we started out with in drafting Kory Sheets this year.
The Oline looks good there
But we have to get a pass rusher somehow someway whether it be a DE or a OLB to replace Lawson. Who knows maybe Brooks or Briggs will have a breakout camp next year ans steal that job.
Porter has only been 3 years
with Miami. I don’t think they’ll let him go with out major compensation. Jason Taylor would be an upgrade for us and we might get him cheap but he wants to stay in Miami (took a pay cut from New England to stay)
Jason Taylor is not doing anythin at all to warrant pursuit.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
devils advocate?
because I said I’d like to trade for Porter who is a guy that isn’t even starting and could be on his way out? I’m confused.
Good point about M-Rob
I wouldn’t be opposed to having M-Rob take over FB duties. He has better hands than Norris. Bit small though—he’d have to put on some weight.
M-Rob—6’1" 223 lb
Norris—6’1" 250 lb
but faster
I think Norris misses blocks sometimes because he doesn’t have the speed to get to the block.
true about Norris
but I am not sure if M-Rob can really block a linebacker…
As you say, he is kind of small.
Great athlete though and excellent on special teams I think.
It would be excellent to have a fullback who can really block in pass and run situations…
Problem with M Rob is he is playing out of position and as we seen last weak he can only pass bloock as an FB
Or run and catch, he can’t block and he doesn’t run that well.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
With a different offense a FB wouldn't be necessary
So it would just be a ficticous label on a position. But the main reasoning for me not wanting to get rid of him is due to his special teams play. He’s just not that valuable to us to keep in there as a halfback.
Pass Rushers
Jermaine Cunningham from Florida is expected to be available in the 4th or 5th rounds and could maybe challenge Soap for his starting job. 6’3" 250 lbs.
Willie Young from N.C state might also be an option as a pure pass rusher. 6’6" 250 lbs. 10 tackles for losses, 7 sacks.
From the looks of things that are some good DE who will be available in the later rounds.
Cunningham would be an OLB with the Niners
He’d need to gain 40-50 pounds to take Soap’s job.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Max Hall
There are two reasons I’m high on him as a QB.
1.) His favorite receiver was Austin Collie. Collie was chosen in the 3rd round and is playing like a first rounder right now.
2.) Hall’s completion percentage this year is 70.3% The last BYU QB who posted over a 70% completion rate was Steve Young.
I'm not real sold on Max Hall
And that’s coming from someone who graduated from BYU and is still a fan of the team. I’m even going to be at the BYU-Utah game on Saturday. But Max Hall has a really bad habit of stairing down his receivers. That’s why he’s thrown so many interceptions. Maybe he can be coached out of that. He is the all time winingest QB in BYU history and that list includes Steve Young, Jim McMahon, and Ty Detmer. I just wouldn’t use a high pick on him. 3rd round is probably right, which is what you had. BTW, Collie was drafted in the 4th round even though he had more receptions than any other WR last year including Crabtree.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
What do you guys think about Sopoaga playing NT?
In this case we’d have more money for the FA, and youth on the line. How about that move and trade for Tommie Harris to play DE?
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Eh
If we’re going to trade for Harris I’d rather have him replace Sopoaga. Smith, Franklin, Harris would be a nasty front line.
A small 5 year isn't hard to trade after one season
Plus we will be about 44 mil under, we won’t miss 2 mil a year, or something around there but I don’t know the details of the contract. I do think Tommie Haris is more of a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 NT
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I think Harris would improve our OLB's and DL as a whole
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
That would be a solid front 3. But I am not sure it would help out Lawson so much…the other three though for sure.
I would
trade Lawson straight up for a veteran offensive lineman and then let Brooks and Briggs battle it out for that spot…or even split time possibly until one seperates himself from the other
yeah but who would a team give up for him
A veteran OL like Barry Sims? Like Wragge? Snyder? Or are you talking Staley? Just curious because I don’t think he has much trade value unless we are talking for a LATE round pick.
Yes
i think that’s what he meant, trading Lawson for an O-lineman.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 26, 2009 12:27 AM PST up reply actions
You said you would trade Lawson for an OL, I was asking, if you were the team that wanted Lawson, who would you give up? Who would be the OL equivalent on the Niners? Basically, people always say, let’s trade so and so to fix this on our team. Well the problem is, if we are willing to part with that player, who is the team that wants him so bad, that sees something in him that we don’t see. We are willing to trade Lawson because he can’t rush the passer, who wants an OLB that can’t rush the passer and is willing to trade an even remotely servicable OL for?
Well here's the way I was looking at it
Lawson is not so great in the pass rush but he does posses some skills in coverage. So maybe a team that struggles in covering TE’s or RB’s or something of that nature would be willing to trade a Guard that posses an average set of skills both in pass block and run block. An average or slightly above average guard is still better than what we currently have in Baas or Rachal. Baas needs to be replaced and I think Chilo will continue to get better.
Obviously the key factor is marketing Lawson to a team that he would fit their needs in.
Lawson hasn’t been in coverage much this year. It seems like the game plan each week is to have Willis cover 2 1/2 guys in the passing game. Willis has run support and than has to take the biggest threat in either the TE or RB on each play than try to rally up and tackle the other guy if it’s the shorter pass.
i agree
from what I have been reading we have allowed Lawson to attack the QB more and he has failed at that. LAST year he was good in coverage, this year he is being allowed to rush the QB and not succeeding.
We got Sims pretty cheap too for a good LT
4.2 million over 2 years, but 1.4 million of it is based on incentives that he has to meet.
That's what Rrlott#42 suggested
He said trade for Harris and put him at DE. That would be replacing Soap…
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I am asking what you guys think
I know Soap has played well but he isn’t that good in the PR department. Everyone ragging on our OLB’s if we had pressure form all 3 levels on the PR our OLB would have more success
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
SO you missed the question Bedan Scolari
I was asking what people thought of Soap playing NT? then I was posing the option of trading for Harris if we did
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
Roster:
This is just the roster NOT a real depth chart
QB- Alex Smith, Nate Davis, Ryan Mallett (1b pick)/Shaun Hill???
RB- Frank Gore/Glen Coffee/Noel Devine (could be round 4/5 K/PR guy)
WR- Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Jason Hill, Dezmon Briscoe (3rd rd.) , Arnaz Battle
TE- Vernon Davis/ Delanie Walker
LT- Joe Staley
LG- Daryn Colledge OR Logan Mankins
C- Eric Heitmann
RG- Chilo Rachal
RT- Marcus McNeil/Chad Clifton/Trent Williams or Bryan Buluga(1a pick?)
DE- Isaac Sopoaga
NT- Aubrayo Franklin
DE- Justin Smith
OLB- Parys Haralson/ Manny Lawson/ Ahmad Brooks/ Diyral Briggs
ILB- Takeo Spikes/ Scot McKillop andPatrick Willis
CB- Nate Clements/T. Brown/Joe Haden/Shawntae Spencer
S- Reggie Smith/MAYBE Nate Clements/Dashon Goldson/O.J. Atogwe/Roman Harper/ Nate Allen
K/PR- Noel Devine
K- Joe Nedney
P- Andy Lee
How could you acquire Joe Haden, Buluga, and Ryan Mallet if you use a 1b on Mallet
We don’t need a QB in the first regardless of Alex and Hill being our QB options
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I don't see it either
Haden is going to be a first round pick. If we pick up Mallet and Williams/Buluga we have no more first rounders.
Maybe he’s thinking that Haden slips to the 2nd, but he won’t.
Free agency is going to be a beast because all those unrestricted free agents are suddenly going to be restricted free agents
Haden is an absolute stud
He’s got a pretty good shot at going in the top 10.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 25, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
You want to trade for two tackles
(one of ’em who is 33), and draft a tackle number 1? While still keeping Staley?
Yeah can't get all 3 of those
I’m guessing we’re going to have our #1 in the 11 to 16 range. And since I don’t think we can truly count (yet) on a rookie salary cap going on that’s not a bad position to be in as far as trade value. No one is gonna want to trade for a 10 and up with this draft, there’s really no one I see that would want to pay whatever it takes to get one of those players in this draft. I could quite well be wrong there but that’s my feeling.
That being said if we were to get an OT like: Trent Williams or Bryan Bulaga or Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell with the 1st #1 and then say a CB like Joe Haden with the second # 1 I think a goodly amount of us would be happy. Would we have other ideas and such as to the picks? Yep probably so, but we’d be overall happy. That would help our Offensive Line and then also give us some more backfield support. This would be especially viable if we pull a deal for O.J. (Otagwe) in FA and fail to get a viable OT in FA. This would then leave us with 2nd-4th to fill the other needs that we’ve all noted (Those being in no real order DE/LB with pass rush ability, OG, QB, speedster/wiggle RB, additional WR help). So then with two needs handled we’d be going into the second with a pretty much BPA attitude with the needs list as our guide for making that BPA choice.
I know that’s kind of loose and there is no “We should do this!” dogma in it but really that’s reality of the whole situation. No one can venture what the future will truly bring not even people like “He of the Helmet Hair” Mel Kiper. Nonetheless we can try and do some guessing and what the heck it’s fun. LOL But we need to be within reason. Certain players are most probably not going to be available at our pick points. We’re not talking Madden here we can’t do (like I often do on Madden) trade for 10 #1s and take the pick of the crop. Guesses within reason. And I think that is what the majority of us are trying to do.
Sorry about the lengthy expository and I’ll try and throw out some guesses and hopefully not too wild, in the near future.
Hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving holiday and as always “GO NINERS!”
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
My roster
QB- Alex Smith/ Nate Davis/Shaun Hill
RB- Frank Gore/Coffee/M-Rob/Noel Devine (4th round)
WR- Michael Crabtree
WR- Josh Morgan
WR- Jason Hill
TE- Vernon Davis/ Delanie Walker
LT- Joe Staley
LG- David Baas/Mike Pouncey (3rd round)
C- Eric Heitmann
RG- Chilo Rachal
RT- Anthony Davis or Bryan Bulaga (1b round)/Tony Pashos
DE- Isaac Sopoaga/Kentwan Balmer
NT- Aubrayo Franklin
DE- Justin Smith
OLB- Jerry Hughes or Sergio Kindle (2nd round)/Parys Haralson
ILB- Takeo Spikes
ILB- Patrick Willis
OLB- Lawson
CB- Tarrell Brown
CB- Joe Haden (1a round)
SS- Reggie Smith
FS- Dashon Goldson
5DB- Shawntae Spencer (Clements is cut because of the uncapped year)
KR- Noel Devine
PR- Noel Devine
K- Joe Nedney
P- Andy Lee
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 26, 2009 12:24 AM PST reply actions
Also meant to post
The last few picks would ideally be a nose tackle to develop, maybe another WR with some speed (who could serve as a return man if need be). and maybe another offensive lineman, pass rusher, or safety.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 26, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions
I like it a lot, but are you sure there's a chance at Kindle in the 2nd?
Yeah looking over some stuff this could very well be. My brain may be stuck in a few weeks back when Kindle seemed to be looked at higher. And I notice that you seem to be recommending pulling a Packers and not doing any FA moves except resigning Baas and Franklin. Big time Kudos on it. And here’s the only things I’d throw out as possibilities:
1) During FA see if we can get S O.J. Otagwe (will he be available in an uncapped?) and if there’s a viable OG go for him in FA.
2) I’d throw out John Jerry (this is actually a steal from Walter Football’s latest). Looking at him he’s huge and seems to have some RT experience (possibly available then for fill in for emergency situations.)
Also of note we could have both Devine and Haden there ready to get the ball on Returns and that would be kinda nice. A return team with some young guys like Haden, Devine and McKillop on it and Nedney and Lee as the legs could turn into a pretty nice ST.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 26, 2009 6:54 AM PST up reply actions
Kindle
Most draft sites I’ve looked at have him as a 2nd rounder. He hasn’t had a big senior year and has had a couple of off field problems.
+1
I don’t think he’ll go in the first.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 2:30 AM PST up reply actions
Everette Brown
2nd rd pick Carolina (from SF in exchange for 2010 1st round pick)
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
I could name anyone then...
You are right, I should have been more specific, however, pass rushers of Kindle’s ability go in first round. Brown had a lot of holes in his game, which is the exact reason why we needed a pass rusher and still passed on him for a first round pick while giving up our 2nd and 4th.
We need a safety
Doesn’t have to be Berry, but Goldson is not a FS, I think he’d be great at SS.
"Optimist Prime"
My favorite threads of discussion include drummer, chesapekebayer, nocal81, Brendan Scolari, an occasional chime in from Fooch to stop the name callin', smileyman, drew k, chikmagnet_565, and who could forget #10 for Tech......
Honorable Mention to howtheyscored, kazvareet,bignerd, ninjames
Yeah a partaaaaaaay!!
I don't think that anyone disagrees with the need for a safety or the fact Berry is great
I think most feel that Berry will be long gone by any of our picks.
Interesting about Goldson as a SS. So let’s look at some of the available Safeties in the draft (going off the concept of no CBA next year so a lot of the FAs that at least I was looking at wouldn’t be available)
Eric Berry – Probably gone
Taylor Mays – Seems more don’t like him than like him
Earl Thomas – Not sure at all about him, all I’m going on here is Scouts Inc rating of 94
Nate Allen – Seems to be rated high by a lot of “pundits”
Kurt Coleman
Kam Chancellor – admitted VA Tech bias for putting him in
Myron Rolle – interesting sleeper pick I think worth looking into.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 26, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Scouting report on Earl Thomas
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Earl Thomas, SS, Texas
Few players have come as far as Earl Thomas in such a short amount of time. The 5-10 strong safety was not that highly touted coming out of high school and redshirted his first year at Texas. As a redshirt freshman in 2008, Thomas totaled 72 tackles, two interceptions and broke up 17 passes. He was even an integral part of the special teams unit. Thomas is just a sophomore in 2009, but he will be eligible for the draft since he will be three years out of high school.
He might leave early if he keeps performing like he has so far in 2009. Through six games, Thomas is second on the team with 27 tackles and has amassed an incredible five interceptions (and he even forced a fumble).
Thomas’ 5-10, 197 pound frame is not ideal for the NFL, but he is not a weak player. He has good coverage skills and a ton of speed, so he could be converted into a corner. However, he has enough strength to play strong safety in most systems and certainly has more than enough potential to develop into a consistent player. Thomas might have some more to prove before he is ready for the NFL; it would probably make the most sense for him to come back to Texas for at least one more year.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Some questions of "the group"
First question on my mind at the moment would be would anyone have a problem taking Myron Rolle in say the 5th if he’s still available there?
Second question: Do we have any vague idea about our compensatory picks? Any chance we get a late 4th or is late 5th the best we can see?
3rd question is kind of looking at late round QBs. Any input on where you think the following QBs might go and feelings about them?
A) Dan Lefevour
B) Max Hall
C) Sean Canfield
D) Zac Robinson
E) Bill Stull
F) Tim Hiller
I guess that’s enough for now. Just getting some consensus and ideas flowing at least in my own head. :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 26, 2009 9:22 AM PST reply actions
I've always been a proponant of letting talented guys try to redeem themselves
When you can get premium talent for a bargain price its worth the risk. More often than not these guys have enough common sense to realize what they are throwing away by screwing up. The fact that you can remember the names of the guys with issues coming out of college that proceeded to continue to screw up is telling
- all time Character related bust… Good ol Lawrence Phillips. Hell he didn’t even drop for issues.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Gave the wrong impression there
Not to put Rolle in that same situation. But he’s been out of football and he’s talented enough to risk a pick on. There have been very few guys in HIS situation so the best comparison is to guys with character issues.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Re:
1. Seems like it could be a good sleeper pick to me.
2. No idea about that. Which free agents are you thinking of that would bring back picks?
3. I like Lefevour and Canfield, although I haven’t seen much of the other guys apart from Robinson. I think all of them are mid to late round picks.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 2:34 AM PST up reply actions
I thought months ago someone mentioned we might get comp picks
Just trying to figure out if we’d have extras in the 4th or 5th to use.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
1) Never saw Myron Rolle in college, but I do know that he was highly regarded coming out of high school; good size, good speed, good hitter, etc. A late round selection is not out of the question regarding Rolle, considering he spent a year away from football.
2) I don’t remember the 49ers losing anyone to justify a 3rd or 4th round comp. Lost DeShaun Foster, Donald Strickland and Justin Smiley, so maybe 5th rounder and a couple of later picks. Maybe a 4th for Smiley.
3) I am opposed to drafting a QB this year unless the staff knows he is going to be ‘the man.’
B) Max Hall, productive, older. Good enough arm to make some throws but does not look off his defenders; a bad, bad nuance.
C) Sean Canfield, good arm and moves around the pocket very well. Makes smart decisions; Mike Riley has coached him well.
I doubt we get any compensatory picks
Rolle might be available in a late round—he took a year off to be a Rhodes Scholar (that’s pretty impressive actuall), and that might hurt his prospect. That might be a good option.
I really like Max Hall. All time winningest BYU QB. Completion percentage this year is 70.3% (Last BYU qb with that rating was Steve Young). He’ll be available in the 3rd or later.
I haven’t seen any of the others play. Lefevour seems like a Tim Tebow type—he’s rushed for 19 TDs, passed for 20, and has one TD reception. Canfield’s numbers look really good too—quite similar to Max Hall’s actually, but with fewer INTs.
Of the QBs you’ve listed there if were going to go after one in the later rounds I’d say Hall, Lefevour, or Canfield.
LeFevour seems to have a better throwing motion and his ball doesn't look like a punt
I like LeFevour a lot
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
Also Pike from Cincy
He needs to drink gravy for a few weeks but looks good IMO
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
Supposedly
on McShay and Kipers boards he is #1… He’s good but he looks like Dahlsim off of Street Fighter
Huh?
I haven’t seen any of their boards with him at #1, he’s not been in their top 25 from what I’ve seen.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 2:36 AM PST up reply actions
They could have possibly said that
I was paying attention but it could have slipped past me; the Senior thing that is. I just remember that they both agreed (you know when they do the split camera view on them both?) that they both agreed he was the #1 QB prospect. Now again, whether they said as a senior QB prospect or not, it’s possible I may have missed that.
Reason I say that is because
Claussen, Bradford, Locker, Tebow, all Jrs. I think it’s a weak draft for Sr. QBs so I’m guessing that’s the case.
Pleaaaaassseee
Let Jim Kelly waste the Bills pick on Tim Tebow lolol
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
Hit the post button on accident. I would never let my Raiders fans live that down if they blow their top pick on Tebow. That might be worse than Hayward Bey.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 8:15 PM PST up reply actions
Yep Canfield and Rolle might be "sleepers"
Just thinking off the top of my head. I mean if we do something like (if we have a comp or some other extra in the 4th)
1a One of the tackles Williams, Brown, Campbell, Bolaga
1b CB Joe Haden
2 Hughes or Kindle
3 OG Jerry or Pouncey
4a RB Ned Devine
4b QB Hall, Canfield or Lefevour
5 S Rolle
That would be a darn sweet draft don’t ya think?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Typo ..meant Noel Devine
I think Ned Devine is a character in a movie LOL
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks
I have to admit stealing some ideas from people.I have some doubts we could get that second 5th from what I’m hearing from smiley about compensatory picks. LOL between that and the CBA stuff he brought up, smiley’s been really bursting my balloon. (Just kidding on that) but I think we can find some good picks in this draft, its no sure fires nor an out and out beauty contest in the first but it’s depth could work nicely. Hopefully we get something like that, would be sweet.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
If we can get through 4a that would be nice.
If Rolle is available for our # 5 that would be good too.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Richard Seymour anyone?
He’ll be a FA next season, I know the Raiders will be throwing bread at him, but he is at least worth a look
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
How is he playing now that he is a Raider?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
He’s playing like he knows he can get off the Raiders with a good enough year. I’d take him for damn sure.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
simple anwser to that problem
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 26, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
Smith has been a beast though
He’s been as good as Seymour this year IMO.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 2:36 AM PST up reply actions
Smith 35 tackles 1.0 sacks
Seymour 30 tackles 4.0 sacks.
Personally I’ll take the extra 3 sacks and the pass defended… But it is closer than I thought.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 2:57 AM PST up reply actions
But Smith has
11 QB hits and 28 QB pressures compared to Seymour’s 6 QB hits and 12 QB pressures.
I’d say Smith’s been a better pass rusher even if he’s got a few less sacks, and for what it’s worth Pro Football Focus has Smith rated as a better pass rusher and run defender than Seymour this year. I think I’d rather just hang onto Smith, particularly if next year is capped (because then there’d be a cap hit for cutting Smith).
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 3:05 AM PST up reply actions
Good point about the cap
didn’t take that into consideration
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 3:16 AM PST up reply actions
Seymour is better suited as a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DT
But I wouldn’t give away Smith, it’s not addition by subtraction, I am trying to improve the team as a whole.
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
That's spinning your wheels . . . maybe to do qualify for a 49ers GM
The point is to add more good players not swap them.
He can play any of the three positions in the 3-4
Best 3-4 DL in the game.
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
So would having Seymour and Smith both on the DL at the same time work?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
SuperBowl Nations (Mocking The Draft) current Mock Draft order per standings
1. Cleveland Browns – 1-9 (.531)
2. St. Louis Rams – 1-9 (.544)
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – 1-9 (.550)
4. Detroit Lions – 2-8 (.531)
5. Seattle Seahawks – 3-7 (.488)
6. Washington Redskins – 3-7 (.500)
7. Buffalo Bills – 3-7 (.506)
8. Oakland Raiders – 3-7 (.513)
9. Kansas City Chiefs – 3-7 (.513)
10. Denver Broncos (from Chicago) – 4-6 (.494)
11. San Francisco 49ers – 4-6 (.494)
12. New York Jets – 4-6 (.531)
13. San Francisco 49ers (from Carolina) – 4-6 (.556)
14. Tennessee Titans – 4-6 (.556)
15. Atlanta Falcons – 5-5 (.494)
16. Houston Texans – 5-5 (.525)
17. Baltimore Ravens – 5-5 (.531)
18. Miami Dolphins – 5-5 (.538)
19. Green Bay Packers – 6-4 (.500)
20. Pittsburgh Steelers – 6-4 (.469)
21. Jacksonville Jaguars – 6-4 (.475)
22. Philadelphia Eagles – 6-4 (.494)
23. Seattle Seahawks (from Denver) – 6-4 (.525)
24. New York Giants – 6-4 (.544)
25. Arizona Cardinals – 7-3 (.450)
26. Cincinnati Bengals – 7-3 (.456)
27. San Diego Chargers – 7-3 (.463)
28. Dallas Cowboys – 7-3 (.488)
29. New England Patriots – 7-3 (.500)
30. Minnesota Vikings – 9-1 (.425)
31. New Orleans Saints – 10-0 (.400)
32. Indianapolis Colts – 10-0 (.469)
Guessing the teams that have the same records and different percentages have something to do with conference standing as well. I could be wrong though.
Draft order
1. Worst record
2. If records are tied they go in order of strength of schedule.
3. If the strength of schedules are the same they go based on division and conference records
4. If all else fails they resort to a coin toss.
5. If a playoff team and a non-playoff team end up with the same record the non-playoff team drafts first, regardless of strength of schedule.
6. Superbowl winner drafts last regardless of record.
7. Superbowl loser drafts next to last regardless of record.
I would imagine that the numbers after the record refer to strength of schedule—but that’s just a wild guess.
That is correct
Ties in record are broken by opponent winning percentage.
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 27, 2009 3:05 AM PST up reply actions
And if the opponent winning record is a tie as well as percentage
It is a coin toss to see who would go ahead
Don't know about you guys..
but I’m hoping that the CBA gets done it gives us lots more viable FA candidates LOL
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 9:44 AM PST reply actions
That would be ideal
from what it sounds like on Goodell’s end, it seems as though progress is being made. Maybe being made a t glacial speed but being made none the less. Lets jepp our fingers crossed and hope it gets done before the 2010 Draft. In conjunction with the Yorks not being cheapos in the offseason
We already need a new Post for this topic
Seems like we need a new one every 5 days or so. Otherwise the load time on these takes a bit longer
I agree....
Since you made the original one, maybe you should make the new one. I don’t think anyone wants to take your thunder.
I think we need to have new posts for each position
Official WR, O-Line, D-line, Secondary, QB, etc.
That way you won’t have 4-500 comments in each thread.
Too bad there’s not a way to sticky these so they don’t fall off the list.
I was kicking around doing a post
with my opinion of #1 rank at each position. i know that would create alot of discussion as well and I am sure there would be a ton of disagreements as well as agreements involved with that.
Drew, I like what you write. How about something from the top few official lists like ESPN
Put those top 4 or 5 for QB, S, OL, CB, OLB and RB.
I think I have seen more of those than any other. For me, a top 3 OT would make every other pick a lot better.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Couldn't hurt
I think a lot of us love these kinds of posts for good and bad. Love to have smiley do a look at FA moves based on the possibility of no CBA coming and such too. I think there are some good offseason moves (and multiple is the emphatic point I feel) that need to be and can be done to help the team immensely.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
I agree. While Drew puts together the Draft Smiley could put together the actual possible FA class that are both RFA and reg FA.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
That is also a good idea
I’d like to see what potential there is in FA at least like the top few candidates for each position
Yeah with comments beside each,,
including whether they are with our without CBA if you know what I’m saying.
Get the list of each pos of need at FA and then at Draft and carry along or dupe some of the draft layouts, they may need to be altered with looking at FA (I know mine might if we consider the CBA to pass and I get back some of the good FA possibilities I thought were there before LOL). Sounds great so long as Fooch is cool with it.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
Oh and with FA Age is important I feel
I think we all can still feel the Jennings and Marvel burns on us well enough to be a bit wary of too old players.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
I'm up for it
Shoot me an email Drew and we can figure out some kind of schedule.
smileyman2002 at hotmail dot com
Could maybe just post them on the same day
whatever day works…maybe Tuesdays or something. I was thinking about doing one tomorrow or later this evening
I'm ok with doing one tonight
Then we can maybe do them once a week after that. I’m going to try and have the play-by-play up each Monday around 11 or 12 Mountain Time. Wednesday nights would work best for me.
We can do offensive line first and then wing it from there if you want.
I was thinking something along the lines
of a list of the top 20 players at each position, their skills, weaknesses, etc.
For the draft you could include what round their expected to go in. For the FA I could mention things like their age, their current salary, and if they’re FA or UFA.
I'll do a fanpost on the current CBA
and free agency first. There’s a bunch of information that needs to be explained before we can get into who is going to be available and who isn’t.
I will probably keep it to 5 per position
That one where I did the top 25 took a ton of time. I think by limiting the number of players, the more conversation it could create possibly.
Plus out of all the ones I listed, some may not even make it in the NFL. Free agency is a bit different. You may wan to list more there. But 20 is alot even for you. Maybe the top 10 FA’s that are available at each position. There’ll be alot of guys who just flat out suck in a top 20.
OMG I love it when a plan starts to blossom
I am really looking forward to both your posts.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Tim Tebow
Seriously… where does everyone see him going? I think most of us, if not all of us, don’t see him going in the first round. Unless the Raiders pull some of their infamous Raiders shennanigans.
I see him dropping to the 2nd or 3rd round… possibly even futher than that. Will he even be a QB? Jimmy Johnson, the ex-coach, seems to think he will be tried out as a H-Back or even a TE.
I can't see him as a TE
He won’t drop to the 3rd though. He’s got too much potential upside. If he’s around in the 2nd someone will grab him.
I see him as a late 1st (bottom 1/3), or early second (top 1/3).
I agree but..
Vince isn’t looking too bust like at the moment. We’ll see what happens with him thru the year just as we will have to with Smith.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Vince is nothing with Chris Johnson. If you were to trade Chris Johnson with any other offensive player to pair with Vince Young he’d be back on the bench.
Can't agree I'd take Vince over Smith at this point in time
"Optimist Prime"
Haden and Berry 1st round?
Yes
That’s why I chose him for the analogy.
Tebow is just talented enough for some team to waste a pick on. He’ll play well enough for a a while until teams realize he’s an inaccurate passer. Later, If he’s lucky, his backup will lose enough games to justify giving him another chance, but ultimately he’ll never amount to anything more than a below average NFL QB that can run the ball pretty well.
That’s how I see it.
Yes rlott#42, Crabtree...can block
Then
he will converted to a 2nd string, blocking TE.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 28, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
Convert him to a tight end or running back?
Great idea of course, but how much do you pay a guy to do that? Late third round?
And answer this $100g question if you can. Will his ego allow it?
Yes rlott#42, Crabtree...can block
Drew...
There is a good chance that Jacksonville drafts him in the 2nd round as a publicity stunt.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
Our second 1st round pick
Sorry, I have no faith in the front office. I can see the special teams ace and QB pitch coming a mile awhile.
Saw this and thought it might be of interest to some of us
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 27, 2009 8:41 PM PST reply actions
Nice link
They seem to believe that the 49ers do not need a OT or OG that is good in Pass blocking.
Trent Williams looks like he could be only a RT but they like Bulaga’s potential to be a good LT as well as a good RT.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
New thread
Since this has filled up, here’s our new offseason thread.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/11/28/1176565/ncaa-top-5s-each-position
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