Packers 30--Niners 24 Week 10 play by play
by smileyman on Nov 23, 2009 12:08 PM PST
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Another week, another loss. Other than the opening drive our offense stunk in the first half. We turned it on the second half though it wasn't quite enough to pull it out.
I put this loss squarely on our defense. GB definitely had our number. Ryan Grant ran for 129 yards and a TD. Aaron Rodgers threw for 344 yards and 2 TDs. I thought Alex Smith had a pretty good day. 227 yards passing, 3 TDs, 1 INT (and I don't think you can put that one on him). He looked more comfortable, made better reads and throws. I didn't see him locking on to targets nearly as much as he has in the past.
Now if Coach Sing would realize that this team can't play smash mouf football we might be able to get a decent 1st half lead and then play conservatively the second half to preserve it. Oh, and our defense let us down yet again in the 4th quarter (I'll have more on that after the jump).
Drive 1
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Davis in down position on right side. Morgan inside right, Crabtree far right. Pass to Gore out of the backfield incomplete.
2nd play (2nd and 10)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Davis down on right side. Morgan far right, Crabtree far left. Hand off to Gore (Norris had a great block that sprung Gore loose). Gain of 42 yards.
3rd play (1st and 10)--Wildcat formation. Direct snap to Gore. Gain of 1.
4th play (2nd and 9)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Davis down on right side. Crabree left, Morgan right. Norris lined up behind LT. Morris goes in motion to RT. End around to Morgan for 8 yard gain. I like this call. Looks like a handoff to Gore off RT but Morgan has the speed to get around the end. Morgan fights hard for the extra yardage.
3rd play (3rd and 1)--1 TE, 1 WR, 1 FB, 1 RB. We bring in an extra RT. Hand off to Norris. -1 yard. I hate this call. I would've liked to see us go for the endzone and if we don't get it then we go for it on 4th down.
4th play. FG. Playing not to lose here instead of playing to win. You've got to go for it here.
Drive 2
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 2 WR, 2 RB. Davis down on right. Morgan inside left, Crabtree far left. Hand off to Gore for 3 yards. (M-Rob hurt on this play).
2nd play (2nd and 7)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Davis down on left. Crabree far right. Morgan on left. Morgan in motion behind RT. Incomplete pass. I like the idea behind this, though I think the call is bad. Packers have obviously watched their game film. As soon as Morgan goes in motion they all start heading to that side. I think a better option would've been a hand off, or maybe a pitch to the left side, rather than a pass attempt.
3rd play (3rd and 7)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. Crabree far right. Davis up on inside left. Morgan far left. Gore behind LT. Sack. Decent protection, but the Packers coverage in the secondary was excellent. Incomplete.
Drive 3
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Crabtree far right, Morgan left. Davis down on left. Davis goes in motion to right side. Sack. I blame this one on Smith--he got happy feet. Protection was actually pretty good. 3 seconds until he started running.
2nd play (2nd and 11)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Crabtree right, Morgan left. Norris lined up behind LT. Goes in motion to RT. Hand off to Gore for 4 yards.
3rd play (3rd and 7)--In shotgun. 1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. Davis, Bruce, and Morgan on right. Crabtree far left. Pressure almost immediately. Ball thrown away.
Drive 4
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 FB. Morgan right, Crabtree left. Davis down on right side. Sacked almost immediately. No chance to even set his feet.
2nd play (2nd and 19)--Same formation as above. Morris in motion to line up behind RT. Quick pass to Crabtree tipped and incomplete.
3rd play (3rd and 19)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis down on left side. Morgan inside right, Crabtree far right. I can't tell who's lined up far left. Quick pass to Crabtree who has to come behind the line of scrimmage to get it. Gain of 6. I hate this call--we need 19 yards and you throw a pass designed for 5?
Drive 5
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. Davis down on right. Morgan inside left. Screen pass stopped for big loss. This one is on Heitmann. The center and LG double team Jenkins. The guard releases so he can go downfield and block, and Heitmann gets beat badly. I wonder how much Baas being out hurt that one. Lost of 5 yards.
2nd play (2nd and 15)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis down on right side. Morgan inside right, Hill far right. Crabtree far left. Run to Gore off RT for 6 yards.
3rd play (3rd and 9)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis on right side in up position. Hill far right. Morgan inside left, Crabtree far left. Blitz came, pass to Davis for 4 yards. Alex never saw the blitz coming--he was looking at Crabtree the whole time.
I hate this series of plays. I do like trying the screen on 1st down. If Heitmann doesn't miss the block it's good for at least 5, maybe more. I don't know why you're running on 2nd and 15, and if you choose to run on 2nd and 15 I don't know why you follow that up with a 6 yard pass when you need 9
Drive 6
1st play (1st and 10)--2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis, Walker, Morgan on right. Gore lined up inside left, Crabtree far left. Quick pass to Davis for 8 yards.
2nd play (2nd and 2)--Same formation. Blitz came almost before Alex got the ball.
3rd play (3rd and 2)--2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Walker far right. Davis, Morgan, and Crabtree right. Davis in motion to center and back. Pressure almost immediately again, Alex scrambles for 1st down yardage.
4th play (1st and 10)--2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Morgan far left. Crabtree far right. Davis inside left with Walker next to him in "bunch" formation. Morgan comes in motion closer to the tackle. Heitmann shifts right to help Rachal out and the blitzer stops the run for no gain.
5th play (2nd and 10)--2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Walker far right. Davis left in up postion. Morgan and Crabtree far left. Beautiful pass to Davis for 32 yards.
6th play (1st and 10)--2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Walker far right. Crabtree inside right. Davis down on right side. Morgan far left. Crabtree in motion to center. Incomplete pass to Davis. This is actually a very nice pass with a great defensive play.
7th play (2nd and 10)--2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Crabtree far left, Walker inside left. Davis up on right side, Morgan far right. Good protection. Incomplete to Crabtree.
8th play (3rd and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Morgan far left, Crabtree inside. Davis inside right next to RT, Hill next to Davis. Morgan in motion to inside left. Pass to Hill for 8 yards.
9th play (4th and 2)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Crabtree far left, Morgan inside left. Davis down on right side. Packers blitz, Smith hit as he throws and pass is incomplete.
Drive 7
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Morgan inside left, Crabtree far left. Davis on right side in up position. Hill far right. Morgan in motion to right side. Pass incomplete (batted down by Jenkins)
2nd play (2nd and 10)--same formation. Pass to Davis for 11 yards.
3rd play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Morgan inside right, Crabtree far right. Davis inside left, Crabtree far left. Morgan in motion to split Davis and Crabtree. Pass across the middle for Davis for 29 yards.
4th play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis down on right side, Crabtree far left. Morgan inside right, Hill far right. Incomplete to Davis.
5th play (2nd and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Morgan inside left, Crabtree far left. Davis inside right on LOS, Bruce far right. Complete across the middle for 5 yards. Called back for PI on Davis.
6th play (2nd and 20)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Bruce far right, Morgan inside right, Davis on LOS next to RT. Crabtree far left. Gore in motion from backfield to line up on LOS as receiver. Alex pump fakes to buy time, throws to Bruce who doesn't even try to fight for it. Great protection by the line.
7th play (3rd and 20)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Bruce far right, Morgan inside right. Davis right on LOS. Crabtree far left. Gore goes out on flat. Pass to Crabtree for TD. 38 yards. Great job by everybody involved. Great protection again on the line, Alex makes a great read (he has Gore open for the easy dump off if he wanted to), and great job by Crabtree pulling it in.
Drive 8
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis up off LT. Morgan inside left, Hill far left. Crabtree far right. Screen to Gore for 4 yards.
2nd play (2nd and 6)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis off RT, Hill far right. Morgan inside left. Crabtree far left. Davis in motion to center and back off RT. Hill called for false start.
3rd play (2nd and 11)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. Hill far right. Davis in down position on left. Morgan inside left, Crabtree far left. Gore for 3 yards.
4th play (3rd and 8)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. Davis inside left, Morgan far left. Hill inside right, Crabtree far right. Pressure immediately on blitz. Incomplete pass (had to throw it away).
Drive 9
1st play (1st and 10)--2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB. Davis down on left, Walker far right. Morgan inside right, Crabtree far right. Interception. Somebody screwed up here. I personally think it was Walker. Looks like both Davis and Walker are supposed to run deep then cut right, only Walker doesn't make his cut at the same time as Davis does. If he does the ball's right on the money and good for almost 20 yards.
Drive 10
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis on right side next to RT. Morgan in the middle, Crabtree far right. Gore on inside left. Hill far left. Quick pass to Gore incomplete.
2nd play (2nd and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis on right side, Crabtree far right. Morgan inside left, Hill far left. Pressure from right side. Alex throws the ball away. Snyder gets beat badly here. We had a really nice wall up front and Snyder lets his man by.
3rd play (3rd and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis on right side, Morgan inside right, Bruce far right. Gore on LOS inside left, Crabtree far left. Pass down the middle to Davis for TD. Beautiful throw.
Drive 11
1st play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Gore back on left side. Davis down on right side. Crabtree far left, Morgan inside left. Hill right. Everybody goes out. Pass to Crabtree. Facemask penalty gives us 15 yards.
2nd play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Gore back on right side. Davis up on right side, Morgan inside right, Bruce far right, Crabtree far left. Really good protection. Pass across the middle to Bruce for 20 yards.
3rd play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Gore back on left side. Crabtree far right, Morgan inside left. Bruce far left. Davis off LT. Pass to Crabtree for 35 yards.
4th play (1st and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Gore back on left. Davis far right. Crabtree far left. Bruce middle left, Morgan inside left. Quick slant pass to Davis, incomplete (I thought this was pass intereference on GB).
5th play (2nd and 10)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis far right. Morgan inside left, Crabtree middle left, Bruce far left. Bruce comes in motion so the left side of the line is in a "bunch" formation. Gore goes out on the flat. Pass complete to Morgan for five yards who gets into a bit of a fight before Rachal pulls him out. (Morgan has to keep a cooler head--when you have an offensive lineman pulling you out, and VD yelling at you it's not a good thing).
6th play (3rd and 5)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis far left. Morgan, Bruce, Crabtree on right side in "bunch" formation. Gore comes out of backfield. Pass intended for Bruce was batted down.
7th play (4th and 5)--1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Davis down on right side. Morgan far right. Crabtree inside left, Bruce far left. Gore out of the backfield for a 10 yard TD. I like these plays where Gore comes out of the backfield. It's a nice safety valve for Alex to dump the ball off. Problem is we don't have good protection most of the time so if the downfield receivers aren't open in 2 seconds he's either flat on his back or running for his life.
Some concluding thoughts:
1. We do not do well when we have long waits between games. Our worst performances to date have come against Houston (after our bye week), and today after a long week because of the Thursday night game. Oh, and that losing streak at Lambeau field has now been extended.
2. I didn't realize that we had the second most 3 and outs in the league. The only worse team for 3 and outs is the Raiders. That's pathetic, and that rests on Raye and Sing for trying to make this team something it isn't. You win with the players you have, not the ones you wish you had.
3. Our defensive scheme stunk this game. Our DBs were lining up 7 yards off the line of scrimmage for the entire first half. 90% of Rodger's passes were quick post or slant routes that cut across the seams (5 and 10 yards). Greg Jenning's TD catch was a 7 yard pass where he broke Tarell Brown's tackle, and then Shantae Spencer thought he would be a hero and strip the ball instead of actually tackling the guy.. Jordi Nelson's TD came on two missed tackles by 49ers. Really poor defense all the way around. I can't say it enough--we desperately need help in our secondary. I think Manusky also needs to take a look at the defensive schemes he's drawing up for pass protection.
First half--you can see how far back we are. Rodgers was dumping passes into the flats all day long.
This is from the 3rd quarter where we stopped them without scoring. We played them fairly tight for most of the rest of the game except for the last drive.
4. I didn't like Sing's decision to kick the FG. On 3rd and inches I would've run a sweep to the left, or gone for it in the endzone. Our line doesn't have the physical strength to push back when it's short and inches (remember 4th and inches in Chicago?). If that doesn't work then you go for the FG.
5. We need help on special teams. Our coverage is pretty good but the return game is horrible. Morgan gave us the best return we've had all year on the kick return but we still can't establish anything on the punt return. Maybe we should put Morgan in as our return guy as well. He's got the speed to break to the corners.
6. Everyone say it with me: shotgun, shotgun, shotgun. We need to run from the shotgun. Our pass defense was somewhat better in the 2nd half because we were running from the shotgun the entire time. This gives Alex an extra second or two to throw, gives him a better field of view. Better field of view leads to better reads and better throws.
7. If you don't know by now, Crabtre
e is going to be a star in this league. That kid has got incredible hands. He's not a burner but I like the way he runs routes, and when the ball comes his way he hangs on. He can really make those tough catches too.
8. Oddly enough I never realized before that Nedney is left-footed.
9. Wragge did an ok job coming in for Baas. Our O-line is beat up bad--we desperately need depth there. Snyder still sucks though.
10. I hate to say it but our defense falls apart in the 4th quarter. We've had 5 games where we needed one more stop in the 4th quarter to give the offense a chance to either tie the game or get us the go ahead score.
Vikings--Brett Favre drove the Vikings 80 yards in 1:27 for the winning score. They had 4 first downs on that final drive.
Texans--The Texans got the ball back with 7:16 left in the game. They then proceed to burn up 5:27 and score a FG. That drive took 10 min. Stop them there and we're at 14-21 and the VD td pass ties us up giving us a chance for OT.
Indianapolis--The Colt's last drive started on their 33 and ended on our 18 yard line. An 11 play drive that had 3 first downs. Stop them at any time and our offense has a chance to go ahead.
Chicago--Bears got the ball at their 20 and marched it all the way to the 12 yard line. Thankfully Cutler is Cutler and our defense got the interception, but it could've been really scary.
Green Bay--After Gore's TD Green Bay gets the ball back with 5:50 left. Plenty of time for our defense to stop them and give the offense a chance for winning score. Instead they proceed to run for 43 yards against us to finish things up.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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The Niners offense actually led the NFL in 3 and outs for most of the season
The Raiders must have passed them in the last few weeks. Extremely pathetic.
Great work though!! (as usual)
by Brendan Scolari on Nov 23, 2009 1:10 PM PST reply actions
4th play. FG. Playing not to lose here instead of playing to win. You’ve got to go for it here
I totally disagree. The smart move was picking up the 3 points and tying the game. Last week, the team couldn’t even pick up an inch when they needed to, why stall the first drive with a TOD and 0 points? The way Green Bay played yesterday’s first half, they would’ve marched the field and scored on us after missing to convert.
9th play (4th and 2)—1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB. In shotgun. Crabtree far left, Morgan inside left. Davis down on right side. Packers blitz, Smith hit as he throws and pass is incomplete.
I also think in this scenario, the team should’ve taken the 3 points and earned a bit of momentum in terms of getting on the scoreboard. Instead, they miss the conversion and have nothing to show for the decent drive. I understand being down by 20 makes desperate times call for desperate measures, so I wasn’t too upset by going for it.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 23, 2009 1:44 PM PST reply actions
I think you know my position on 4th downs
so it shouldn’t surprise you that I think that the problem with the niners approach to 4th and short has more to do with the playcalling than the decision to go for it. We just don’t have the personnel to ram it down their throats when that’s what the D is expecting, so why try? Try a toss, or a naked boot, or an outside run, or a short pass instead. It will work most of the time.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I've always been a BIG proponent
of going PA on 4th and very short. You get 9 to 10 guys attacking the ball… If you can get 2 seconds of protection 50% of the time you’ve got a guy with a step on a corner and no safety over the top to protect him. Give me a PA on 4th and less than a yard from their 35-40 anyday. That’s a touchdown with good execution. Especially considering you know the D is thinking, “Jimmy Raye huh lulz… 97.5% chance he’s gonna run it up the gut. Maybe he’ll get SNEAKY and hand it to the fullback.”
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 4:13 AM PST up reply actions
Hell even if Alex gets sacked
I can fell comfortable in the knowledge that for once we were PLAY – TO WIN – THE GAME
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 4:15 AM PST up reply actions
wow learned something parenthesis within a word will delete whats in them
that was supposed to be PLAY (ING) – TO WIN – THE GAME
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 4:17 AM PST up reply actions
4th and inches.
I could go either way on the call they made, really. It was pretty apparent the 49ers were going to kick a field goal once they handed the ball to Norris on third down. If you think you might go for it on 4th down, you take a bigger risk on third down. Easier said than done, probably, but everyone in that stadium was expect a run on that play, so some PA go Gore/Norris may have worked.
The biggest issue I have with that series
is the call on 3rd and inches. We know what happened when we tried 4th and inches last week. Play action, sweep to the left, Gore out of the backfield for a quick dump. Any of those would’ve gotten us the yardage we needed.
This is where...
… the coaching staff has driven me nuts the past few weeks. It’s not that I expect them to throw all the time or anything like that. I even understand that they EXPECT their rushing offense to be able to gain the inches needed for that first down. We all know the 49ers have a pretty big plus with Gore at RB and that he should be the strength of the offense, but I think it’s time the 49ers coaching staff admits that it needs to trust it’s QB more.
yeah, I thought this was the right decision-not playing 'not to lose'
Nedney was money from that distance and Sing knew it. He tied the game here—it’s not like he knew that the Packers were going to run off 20 unanswered points from this point.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
I concur with Andrew about the first 4th down
If you can’t get the inch on 3rd down, why risk another 4th down stop? Then you get no points and fail like last year’s Eagles. I didn’t like the 3rd down call after Gore had run well but that’s on Raye not Sing. The decision to kick the FG at that time I agree with.
I also agree with not kicking the FG from that distance when down 20. Had it been a 17 point game, then yes, reduce it to 14. But had they kicked from that distance and been successful, and everything plays out the same, that means the final TD pass to Gore never happens since they would have been down 30-20. They would have then kicked a FG on that 4th down and instead lost 30-23.
Question for smiley, you said:
Now if Coach Sing would realize that this team can’t play smash mouf football we might be able to get a decent 1st half lead
But your 1st half play by play doesn’t read like smash mouth. Neither did their game plan in the 1st half of the Chicago game or the entire Tennessee game. The plays being called went away from establishinig Gore and being smash mouth. It seems the big difference in the 2nd half of this game was more shotgun and less Norris, but the play calling sounds about the same, just with more success.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Smash mouth
You’re right of course. I wrote this up late last night, so I was resorting to platitudes out of frustration. The play calling is still fairly conservative until we get behind. No long passes, a couple decent runs, and that’s about it. We were much more effective running these plays out of the shotgun, and the biggest gains we had during the whole game came out of the shotgun (other than the 42 yard run by Gore in the 1st quarter).
I want this offense to go full throttle from the beginning. Lets score 21 points in the first half and if we’re ahead then we can stop running the spread.
Understood
And I appreciate the honesty. I’d like the Niners to be a bit of both; why can’t they run 90% spread, which for me means either 2WR-2TE or 3WR-1TE. How often Smith is in the shotgun can be based on opponent weaknesses, Smith’s preferance, etc. I don’t care about that. But I would like as many plays as possible where the play calling is to get up the field with passing and compliment it by running Gore from these formations. This would push safety and LB coverage deeper which then opens up short passes to Gore, Davis, Walker and HIll underneath.
I still prefer that Gore get 20+ carries per game, unless we’re down big in the second half, as not being predictable and using clock are still very important and Gore is one of our best players. But I’d prefer most of the carries come in the second half after we’ve attacked through the air. I’m fine with those carries coming from shotgun handoffs, direct snaps in the shotgun or handoffs when Smith is under center. I just want his runs to more often happen with no fullback on the field and everyone spread out.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I like this game plan.
Push down the field long and hard for 2 quarters. Get the defense to play 8 yards off our receivers to stop the big play. Then hand off to Gore and let him get 10 or 20 yards on a run, or throw it to him out of the backfield.
We’ve said it before—this team has to pass to set up the run.
Defense fell apart?
Hello? They never showed up!! They sucked from the first snap to the last.
On to the offense:
I agree with Singletary’s FG decision. Very reluctantly, but I do. If the team doesn’t want to prove to Singletary that they can move the ball a few inches, they don’t deserve to go for it on 4th down.
I finally see where the issue with Jimmy Raye really comes from. It’s never been about running the ball too much. You’re lying if you think that’s the problem. The problem is the over-reliance on the YAC. I’m pointing to those who are questioning screen passes on 3rd and long and other such short passes. I understand the need to avoid a sack, but without the fear of a deep threat, there’s no way YAC passes are gonna have much success.
The issue can better be resolved with a better Oline rather than doing anything with Raye. I think Raye would love to go deep more often if he had the OL gave him a reason for him have that much faith in them.
No, I had no problem with the 2nd and 15 run, mainly because it did net 6 yards. 3rd and 9 is much better than 3rd and 15 or worse if Smith were to get sacked. As with my last point, I do agree that the screen on 3rd and 9 was a bad choice.
I think our 2nd half successes had nothing to to do with the shotgun and everything to do with the GB’s defense playing soft due to having a big lead. I noticed how GB’s penetration wasn’t nearly as prevalent as it was in the first half. Assuming the shotgun is the answer is pure ignorance. I guarantee you that doing more shotgun will fail just as bad.
GB played straight up defense the 2nd half.
The problem is the over-reliance on the YAC. I’m pointing to those who are questioning screen passes on 3rd and long and other such short passes. I understand the need to avoid a sack, but without the fear of a deep threat, there’s no way YAC passes are gonna have much success.
I completely agree with this. I hate that we need 9 yards and the play is designed for 6. If we need 9 design a play for 10. Way too many calls are designed in the hopes that we’ll make up the difference after the ball is caught and it just isn’t happening.
I think our 2nd half successes had nothing to to do with the shotgun and everything to do with the GB’s defense playing soft due to having a big lead. I noticed how GB’s penetration wasn’t nearly as prevalent as it was in the first half. Assuming the shotgun is the answer is pure ignorance. I guarantee you that doing more shotgun will fail just as bad.
Green Bay did not play it soft the second half. They played their defense straight up the entire time. (Brian Billick specifically pointed this out in the 4th quarter).
I don't know if they played it...
… “straight up,” but they definitely didn’t go into a prevent style defense. I think the Packers definitely blitzed a little less, but their DBs still played quite a bit of man, especially against Davis and Crabtree.
Al Harris got hurt
and I think that pretty much stopped their blitzing. They definitely weren’t playing it soft or prevent though.
That is a very..
… good point. I definitely agree the secondary wasn’t playing it soft, and with Harris down, I could definitely see them wanting to be a little more careful with Davis.
Also remember Harris went down later in the 2nd half. They did plenty of throwing with him in the game.
He was in for the 1st two defensive series in the 2nd half for sure.
And they were blitzing Smith pretty heavily at that point.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
I think they still blitzed as often as the first half
And being that they play a 3-4, it wasn’t always obvious who the fifth rusher would be. Much like the Houston game, the best way to slow a pass rush is to keep extending the drive. They get tired. Going three & out keeps them fresh and aggressive.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I didn't think so
I’ll watch it again to check. Maybe our line just got better at picking it up so it wasn’t as obvious.
That would be interesting to know
I know from the TD highlights, the one to Crabtree was only a three man rush on 3rd & 20; the one to VD was against a five man blitz; the one to Gore was a straight four man rush.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
First impressions are often wrong
Mine certainly were.
Went back and watched the game again. By my count the Packers blitzed 20 times during the game. They weren’t all 5 man rushes. Sometimes they would put 3 linemen in, then bring in a CB or safety on a delay blitz. Other times it would be a 5 or even 6 man blitz.
The first half we were only blitzed 4 times (of course we only had 16 offensive snaps the entire 1st half). Gore’s 42 yd run came on a corner blitz leaving empty space in the backfield. The results of those blitzes was Incomplete, 42 yard run, incomplete, complete (4 yds). We ran shotgun three times the first half: Incomplete (hit as he threw), 6 yd run, complete (4 yds).
Second half Green Bay blitzed us 16 times.
Complete for 8 yds, Incomplete, Run for no gain, Incomplete, Incomplete, incomplete, Complete for 29 yds, incomplete, run for 3 yds, incomplete, incomplete, interception, incomplete, incomplete, incomplete, touchdown. At that point GB stopped blitzing us and did straight 4 man rush the rest of the game.
Stats out of the shotgun in the second half: 11/26 for 217 yds, 3 TDs and 1 INT.
Average amount of time before the ball was either thrown or Alex had pressure was 2.5 seconds. That number didn’t change whether it was from the shotgun or under center.
The biggest passes of the game came from under shotgun in the second half. The first big 32 yd pass he had the ball for 2 seconds when he threw it. The 29 yd pass was 3 sec. The 38 yd pass was 3 sec. 35 yd pass 3 sec.
The first TD was a 3 sec pass play. The second was 2 sec. The third was 2 sec.
From what I can tell Alex gains no extra time protection wise from being under shotgun. His completion percentage was about the same as well. He’s clearly more comfortable with it, and he made much bigger throws, but that’s a result of play calling as well.
I read from Lynch I think
That the Niners were in shotgun for all but one play in the second half, the INT. Are you sure the INT came from shotgun formation?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Did I say he was in shotgun?
If so that’s wrong.
He was being blitzed on that play (but it didn’t effect the pass any), but it was from under center. We were on the 1 yd line because our punt returner decided not to field the ball. Walker decided not to make his cut, making an easy INT for GB.
re: "That number didn't change whether it was from shotgun or under center"
You’re right that that didn’t change; what changes is how quickly Smith can read the defense and set up to throw. It’s not only a matter of protection or ‘comfort’—it’s about how long Smith has to see what he’s seeing, which he does better from the shotgun.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
I’ve never quite been satisfied with this. Steve Young and Joe Montana used to refuse to run plays out of the shotgun because it forced them to take their eyes off the defense. Granted, that’s purely anecdotal, and clearly the shotgun is the formation that is predominately run by most of the truly prolific offenses today, so I’m not disputing the advantages of shotgun… I’m just not sure that the advantages we’re seeing strictly have to do with how quickly he can set up or how clearly he can read the defense. To my mind, there are pretty miniscule differences between what a play looks like to him in the shotgun and what it looks like from under center. Obviously, the protection is no better. He theoretically gets a slight advantage of being able to survey the defense without having to drop back, but if his eyes are downfield that feels like a small difference to me indeed.
I really don’t see a whole lot of reason why these nonexistent or small differences would create such significantly different results. I think more than Smith actually being more comfortable in the shotgun, we’re just plain running better plays out of that formation. It looks to my eyes (so take that for what it’s worth) like we have a greater diversity of route types out of the shotgun. Rarely from under center do we see to stretch the field with any one receiver. Under shotgun, we have long, intermediate and checkdown routes. Rarely under center do we seem to take advantage of the width of the field. Under shotgun we seem to spread things out more. I feel like we see different types of running plays out of shotgun. We see the direct snaps and the draws that everybody wants.
It just seems like we spread the defense more and have a greater variety (and better balance) of play types out of shotgun, which looks right to my eyes. It does, however, conflict with the whole, “we don’t have enough plays to run this offense all the time” line that we keep hearing.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
I do believe you're right
I don’t think we do stretch routes under center. We do lots of crossing patterns, some intermediate routes, and of course runs. Very few stretch plays though, which I don’t get since they take about the same time to develop as a 5 yard throw. (At least based on the sample size of 1 game.)
Comfort
I think a lot of the “better” play from the shotgun has to do with comfort, so in that I somewhat agree.
However, part of that could also be that he still isn’t being taught how to progress through is reads when coming from center. I don’t know all there is to know about QB mechanics, but it seems to me that when most QB’s take the snap from under center, their bodies are already committed to one side of the field, which makes the reads, a lot more obvious to the defense, I think. This kind of lends to the frequent accusations that Smith is eyeballing his target for too long. From the shotgun, the QB is facing forward at the snap and really doesn’t have to commit to his throwing stance until he feels comfortable with a read.
On a side note, I don’t think that the split second a QB takes his eyes off the defense to catch the ball hurts the QB’s reads that badly. Of course, it’s still a matter of comfort, I suppose.
Its several things
Under center the QB does have a slightly more narrow field of view (which becomes EXTREMELY more narrow if the QB is less comfortable from that position and starts getting tunnel vision when hes worried about the rush). The way Alex ran the spread from the shotgun at Utah was a beautiful thing to watch. He’s obviously more comfortable being in the shotgun and that comfort helps his decision making if from nothing else than physiological reasons. He’s comfortable… Thinking clearly… Not nervous and tunneling in on the MLB or the safetys… LET HIM WORK FROM THE GUN JIMMY RAYE!!! And for you Sing good buddy… You want Gore hitting the hole at speed? Well then direct snap him the ball on some runs and run more delays and counters which still aren’t runs that he is incapable of making. I think Gore would do great running delays and counters out of the gun. Have enough time to see holes open wide up when linemen come after Alex cause of our shoddy pass blocking then rip through the resulting arm tackles.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 4:31 AM PST up reply actions
Was there a difference...
between the first half and second half in the amount of time Smith had to get the play off? You seem to indicate that he had an average of 2.5 seconds before he threw the ball or was pressured in the second half. Was that number different in the first half?
Nope
Same amount of time. The two longest blocking periods we had were 4 seconds and 5 seconds (and the 5 seconds came on a play where Smith rolled out to the right). A few 1 sec pressures, a fair amount of 2 sec pressures, but mostly 3 sec plays.
The long TD passes—3 seconds. Short 5 yard passes—3 seconds.
Tells me that the play calling is really at fault here for us not opening up the field.
They blitzed
something like 16 times in the second half… That seems pretty non conservative to me
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 27, 2009 4:20 AM PST up reply actions
early 4th and inches.
I disagreed with the announcers that they should have taken a crack downfield on 3rd down, then go on forth. Better to make them stop two short plays. Also, at that time, the game was 3-0 and our defense wasn’t getting beat like a red-headed step child.
The FB counter makes no sense on 3rd down if you then punt. It kinda makes some sense if you are going to line up in the same formation on 4th down and run a different play. Better to have run a misdirection run (sweep, pitch, rollout) on 3rd, then you can go again on fourth if it was close.
You can say this for the Niners’ coaching staff… they did make some adjustments at half time. How hard could it have been to have made them in sometime in the 2nd quarter?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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