Desean Jackson
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 3, 2009 10:06 AM PST
91 comments
I know hindsight is 20/20
The reason I bring this up now is because it was not until recently that I noticed one of the Niners' biggest flaws: Kick/punt returning!!!!!! It is beyond bad, it's atrocious. I think Robinson is a fine kick returner; he won't do things that costs the game. But it would be nice to have someone more explosive and capable of making a big play. And I can't even find the words to describe our punt returning. Every goddamn punt we have a different guy back there, but none of them seem like they know what they're doing. Battle, Brandon Jones, Clements (genius idea having the highest payed guy returning punts.) None of them are adequate options. Punt returning has played a huge role in our last two losses. If we had Desean, not only would we have a capable downfield threat, but our returns would turn from a weaknes to a major strength.
Anyways, would love to hear what you guys think about this. Think Rachal was worth drafting over Jackson? See any internal solutions to our return issues? Could Patrick Willis beat Chuck Norris in a fight?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I remember posting on an open thread on the facebook group for the 49ers, cursing the Niners for passing him. Everyone else was like “shut up, Rishi, we don’t want Desean”
Of course, I went to cal, so of course I wanted him drafted, but still.
7
by Rishi on Nov 3, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rachal was nt the bad pick it was Balmer!!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 3, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what are you talking about?
Balmer is one of our most consistent kick returners.
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
by 49erLou on Nov 3, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol...
I agree. I’ve seen him on numerous occasions fall on the ball to secure possession for the team. Consistent, he is… hahaha
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 4, 2009 12:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what's sad...
is that when he does so, he usually gives the team better field position than our regular returners do.
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
by grantmp on Nov 4, 2009 5:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
have balmer return punts
he can’t do much worse than anyone else on this has been doing.
Go 49ers
by iaalexeeff on Nov 4, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
amazingly
It seems he always returns it to the 40, no?
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 8, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"but still"
Arguably the greatest comeback in argument history
by Fooch on Nov 3, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I’d rank “I am rubber, you are glue” way ahead of it.
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by Rishi on Nov 3, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I went to Cal and watched him the whole time he was there, and I thought there were major question marks in his game that made him an extremely risky proposition that high in the draft. I really didn’t mind missing out on him at the time, and if I was in the same position now with a new player I’d probably think the same thing. He’s a very, very small guy who had a real tendency to disappear for long stretches of time in college. Those were big warning signs for me. He was a high-risk player, and that risk is paying off for the Eagles now. I still probably wouldn’t have taken it, though.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
I went to CAL as well and saw Desean play, not in person, but on t.v.
Anyway, I don’t recall any “major” question marks about his game when I was watching him. When he was here, the team had another guy named Marshawn Lynch, and a pretty effective quarterback in Nate Longshore. I remember seeing them play on t.v. a lot and receiving a lot of national attention. The football analysts always seemed to say great things about Desean, and nothing else.
Sooo, I’m not so sure if it was that there were question marks about his game so much as it was the fact that Mike Nolan was here that the 49ers didn’t draft Desean. I think there were question marks about his CHARACTER… but not his game. And Nolan, as we all learned firsthand, was big on character guys. I still miss Antonio Bryant. :(
I remember screaming when the 49ers passed on Desean after two opportunities. They needed a freaking playmaker, and they didn’t draft him. Kentwan Balmer? For my money, I would’ve chosen Desean in the first round, even as high as 10!
We got Josh Morgan in the 6th round, but he has become a disappointed thus far, and I can’t believe I still have his name as my sn for this site. I suppose I’ll just keep on waiting. Smith is now the QB, so maybe he’ll be able to find JM… something that Hill couldn’t do at all, unfortunately…
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 4, 2009 12:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Q-marks about Desean
“I don’t recall any "major" question marks about his game”
The major question mark about his was the fact that he weighs about 165 pounds. Many thought he wouldn’t be big enough to handle the hits at the NFL level. Of course when you’re running away from everybody, you tend to absorb fewer hits…
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
by grantmp on Nov 4, 2009 5:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, like I said, he’s very undersized for an NFL player, and he really did disappear for LONG stretches at a time in college. Small size plus inconsistent play equals warning signs to me.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 4, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Small size plus inconsistent play equals warning signs to me.
Point taken. That holds to be true even today. Desean has a pro bowler in McNabb, and Desean’s play is certainly inconsistent, even though he pops off at least one huge play in just about every game that he plays in.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 8, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
believe me
when DeSean went crazy in the MNF game against the Redskins, I felt the deep burn.
Now, the positive spin is, maybe the Niners would’nt have drafted Crabtree if they had drafted Jackson. I’d much rather have Crabtree than DeSean, but at the same time, both of them would be fantastic. Jackson’s rare ability to score any time he touches the ball sometimes makes me cry at night.
But let’s not have sour grapes over the matter, we have what we have. Rachal could still turn out to be a pretty good RG, it’s only his second year and Balmer could turn out to be a decent something, I hope.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 10:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jackson/Crabtree
This could devolve into it’s own debate, but excluding the Rachal factor, would you rather have had Crabtree than Jackson? Crabtree would appear (although it is certainly way too early) like he’ll be the better overall receiver. But Jackson does bring craziness to the return game. Thoughts?
by Fooch on Nov 3, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree
Crabtree Crabtree Crabtree.
He’s a better route-runner, he’s a finer tuned receiver and he’ll eventually have the ability to catch 10 passes a game. DeSean is more a speedster that breaks plays out in a single grab, but I don’t see him as the “catch 10 a game” receiver that Crabtree can be. The most Jackson’s had in a game so far is 6 catches. In other words, when it’s 3rd and 7, is DeSean really a reliable target to go out there, run an 8-yard pattern and make a grab in traffic?
I understand DeSean’s return game is phenominal, but we’re only really thirsty for that because the FO made a huge mistake letting Rossum go. If we still had Rossum, I don’t think we’d be pining as much for DeSean, even though he’s extremely gifted. I would take Crabtree over Jackson every day of the week.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The most Jackson’s had in a game so far is 6 catches. In other words, when it’s 3rd and 7, is DeSean really a reliable target to go out there, run an 8-yard pattern and make a grab in traffic?
No, but maybe he runs the deep route that stretches the field for Crabby (or Maclin, Celek, or Westbrook) to get open… the game of football is about 11 guys each doing their job so that others can do theirs. It’s not always about being “the man.”
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the game of football is about 11 guys each doing their job so that others can do theirs. It’s not always about being "the man."
I was gonna say… that Jackson would serve as a great compliment to Crabs, and vice versa, if both were on the same team… One stretches the field for the big play, while the other uses his big body to be more of a possession-sometimes-stretching-the-d-type of receiver.
At this point, I haven’t seen enough of Crabs to decide who’d I’d rather have though. I was really wrong about Crabs. He looks like he’s going to be a fine, fiiiiiiiiine receiver. Part of being a great receiving threat in this league is having glue-like hands, and Crabs certainly has them. Just look at a guy like Eric Johnson when he was here. He was horribly slow, and terribly fragile, but those hands… oh boy. So you combine his hands with his above average speed and ability to make quick cuts and stop on the dime, and you have a pretty damn good receiver. From the little I’ve seen of him, he’s been able to do all of that. The only question now is, can he stretch the field and lost his defenders the way Desean does.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 4, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, I didn’t read all the comments below your, and it seems everyone is thinking the same thing about Desean and Crabs.
But really? Is Crabs only a possession type receiver. It sure sounds like that’s what people are building him up to be ALREADY.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not at all
I don’t think Crabs is just a possession receiver, he is a true number 1. While DeSean would be a great compliment, Fooch asked if we’d rather want Crabs or Jackson. I said Crabtree, because he’s got the hands of a vice grip and superb route running skills.
Of course I’d want both, because we could put Giovanni Carmazzi at QB and we’d be fine. In terms of who I’d rather have though, the answer is Crabtree because he has an ability to make the YAC happen, and run any route imaginable.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 4, 2009 5:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Warning, the punch bowl is a little strong this morning
Of course I’d want both, because we could put Giovanni Carmazzi at QB and we’d be fine.
by bignerd on Nov 4, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha...
hilarious
I’d suppose Tim Couch would do equally as fine…
Punch Bowl indeed is a little strong bignerd.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Nov 8, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fact:
Desean is more dangerous than Mike Crabtree on deep routes.
Crabby does his damage by running excellent routes, having great hands, and being good after the catch (at least, in college). How many “over the top fo the defense” catches have you ever seen Crabby make? I don’t recall any.
This certainly doesn’t mean Crabby is anything but spectacular. I could easily see him as a TO type (you know, except without the craziness and roids) who’s not gonna beat you over the top that often, but he’ll beat you over the middle and then out beast you to the endzone. Who’s the perfect complement to the type of player that likes to make a catch, beat one guy, and have running room? Why, a speedster who can take the safetys out of the picture by forcing them deeper and winning the 1-on-1 battle when they’re too focused on the #1 guy. Ummm… hello DeSean Jackson!
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The cliche about casual fans ...
… is that they want to draft skill-position players year after year, convinced that the next speedster or big-play back will turn the team around. And, since you have to know what you’re watching to understand line play, they neglect the lines.
The funny thing is that Al Davis seems to have devolved into one of these guys.
The 49ers have fine receivers. We don’t need more receivers, no matter what “type” of receivers they are. In fact, with just Crabtree, Morgan, Jones, and VD, we may well be completely set at the primary receiving positions for years to come.
Our OL, on the other hand, is a mess.
Games are won in the trenches. We’ve been losing them there, not with our receivers.
by Ronaldinho on Nov 4, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
When I originally made this post I didn’t mean for it to become a debate about Jackson vs Crabs (though I think it is an interesting argument.) I was trying to address our lack of capable returners, a problem that would be solved if we had Jackson. Just like the o-line/d-line, I think special teams are also an often overlooked aspect of football (that being said the niners have excellent special teams besides kick and punt returning)
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 4, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True ...
But it shouldn’t be so hard for us to pick up a competent return man in the offseason – maybe not somebody special, but somebody who can get the job done. I’m not too worried about it.
by Ronaldinho on Nov 4, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I want linemen
Offense, defense, whatever. If you can move the line of scrimmage, please come play for my team.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When I originally made this post I didn’t mean for it to become a debate about Jackson vs Crabs (though I think it is an interesting argument.)
Methinks you should look a little lower to find a “debate” that you really didn’t mean for this post to turn into.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't suggesting that we should have necessarily drafted the guy
Just that he’s the type you would want opposite Crabby. That’s all.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
here's the problem
if DeSean Jackson were drafted by the 49ers he would’ve been our Number 1 receiver. I’m not denying it would be nice to have DeSean and Crabtree, but the question was which would you rather have.
I’d rather have Crabtree, because he’s a bonafide #1. Jackson is a bonafide threat, but he’s not a #1. Plus, in a Martz offense, Jackson is an Az-Akim type, not an Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt type, probably one of the many reasons the 49ers passed on him. Again, I’m not saying Jackson isn’t fantasic, but I’d take Crabtree over him any day of the calendar year.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 4, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree
Craziness in the return game or not, I think Crabtree has the potential to be the better all-around WR. While Jackson does provide that “craziness” in the return game, he won’t be returning kicks for long if he continues to contribute on offense.
by sfgfan on Nov 3, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DeSean Jackson wouldn't make us pass on Crabtree, if so this is not the management we want.
Jackson would make Crabtree better and vice versa. One is dynamic with possession skills and the other stretches the field. With Jackson and no Balmer our offense would be crazy right now with Alex. We need a REAL deep threat and return man whether its one player or two. And yes it’s worth the draft picks.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 3, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This makes sense
It’s not an either/or. Jackson is the deep threat, big play WR. Crabtree is the possession WR. In more historic terms Jackson would fit the John Taylor role while Crabtree fits the Jerry Rice role (not a projection but example on how they slot in a lineup). You can have both, they compliment. Desean Jackson would have been a 2nd round pick so the salary cap buster argument doesn’t apply either.
The argument is still Jackson vs Rachal. The trickle down effect is no Morgan, not no Crabtree. Likely Mc Boo Foo would end up being compared to Matt Millen for his interest in high WR draft picks.
by bignerd on Nov 3, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh. And then our o-line is even worse
We don’t need another WR. Crabtree and Morgan will be our starters going forward, and the team has MUCH bigger problems.
Chilo may turn out to have been a bad pick – although it’s way too early to make that call! – but the theory of the pick, taking an offensive linemen there, is a no-brainer given the way our team has shaken out.
If you could go back in time and redo the pick with knowledge of our current team, you would take a lineman there, no question. Maybe not Rachal … but you take a lineman.
by Ronaldinho on Nov 3, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you could go back in time and redo the pick with knowledge of our current team, you would take a lineman there, no question. Maybe not Rachal … but you take a lineman.
I agree.
If the rules of the “game” were that I could go back and change just that one pick, I would definitely still consider an offensive lineman. The interesting thing is this: Rachal was the only offensive lineman taken in that second round.
by sfgfan on Nov 3, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This assumes the 49ers couldn’t have picked a better lineman in the 6th round instead of drafting Josh Morgan.
Chilo has played this season like he’s a 2nd year, 6th round pick.
by bignerd on Nov 3, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true.
How is Carl Nicks doing for the Saints?
by sfgfan on Nov 3, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As bad as we needed a WR to be added as well as a KR, that shold have been addressed first.
Ballmer’s pick was unecessary IMO.
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 3, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I wouldn’t have been upset if the Niners went with anyone instead of Balmer to be honest, and that’s not just because he has done much. The night before the draft I spent about 45 minutes ripping Balmer, and when the 49ers drafted him, I almost literally put my foot in my mouth. Luckily, I’m not that flexible anymore.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily, I’m not that flexible anymore.
I lol’d. At least the 49ers drafted drafted our (mine and yours) guy this year.
by sfgfan on Nov 3, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree!
It will never get old reliving that draft moment! Every morning from now on, I’m going to wake up and start my day saying “with the 10th pick in the 2009 NFL draft the 49ers select… Michael Crabtree Texas Tech”
Unless you are referring to another pick made in the draft?
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought so
I didn’t think you were a big Bear Pascoe flag bearer.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 4, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t have much attachment to many players in the ‘09 draft. The only other guy I would have absolutely wanted the 49ers to have was Everette Brown. Since I didn’t expect Crabtree to be available at #10, I was pushing for the 49ers to take Brown really hard around these parts.
by sfgfan on Nov 4, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. Hell, a year after they got DJax, they drafted Jeremy Maclin, who is also a tiny speedster. It paid dividends.
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by Rishi on Nov 3, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We could spend several lifetimes going through "What If's"
The 49ers passed on Jackson and many other players who have shown to be good values. That is the way the draft goes.
So last year they didn’t sign Jackson and some are upset that they didn’t sign a good WR and this year they drafted Crabtree and many are upset that they didn’t draft an OL.
This would never end.
I like who we have drafted and look at good things happening on the team.
The past is gone.. leave it there!
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 3, 2009 10:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Remember when we passed on Tom Brady?
7
by Rishi on Nov 3, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 3, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 3, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 3, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 3, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 3, 2009 11:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hindsight is 20/20
49ers wasn’t the only team to pass on Jackson, he lasted until the middle of the 2nd round! I know he was a local guy but they did pass on Rodgers for Smith so maybe somebody in the FO dislikes Cal or Tedford.
Matter of fact, the 49ers could have had Harvin who is very similar to Jackson and we’ve already saw what he can do on kick returns but they chose Crabtree over him as many teams would have except of course Al Davis. At least our recent 1st round picks are starting and doing fine (Smith, Willis, Davis, Staley, Lawson and Crabs), hopefully Balmer can join the club.
Since the 49ers got 2 1st rounders next year, I hope they can draft 2 NFL-ready starters who can contribute right way and watch out NFC West…
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Nov 3, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Don’t act like winning the NFC West is out of our grasp.
7
by Rishi on Nov 3, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still believe
…in life after love and the Niners taking the NFC West this year. I was implying in my last post that I would like to see them dominate the division with new impact players much like the Seahawks did before.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Nov 3, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And a Cher fan, to boot.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you make the joke you gotta post the pic
Sadly, the name of this post could be accompanied by another Cher song too.
by bignerd on Nov 3, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You never HAVE to post that pic. Not in a civilized world.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How does Cher get her pubes to grow in a V-pattern all the way up to her nipples?
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did she write a song called Induce Vomiting? Because this pic… You know…
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 3, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
don't even tell me ALL you guys above wouldn't do her. I know you would in a heart beat.
by hudd07 on Nov 3, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which version?
Cher has more point o’s than Microsoft Windows.
by bignerd on Nov 3, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny
There are drag performers who look more like Cher than the current Cher.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 3, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
She’s no Bea Arthur.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry what
I couldn’t read that as I’m now blind.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hot,
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
of course I'd "do" her
I’d try to get her pregnant too.
she’s rich, even though she wishes she could turn back time for just a nickel or a dime.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 3, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew loves Cher so much, he wants to take her out behind the middle school, and get her pregnant!
Hm… That joke loses something when it’s about real people…
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I posted that pic with the same joke (I stay green with recycled jokes) over at the Giants' blog
It didn’t go well, lunches were lost and a few straight men went crooked that day.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Nov 3, 2009 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when this was too controversial for MTV?
How far we’ve come.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 3, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now it’s useful for hijacking someone’s well intended thread.
by bignerd on Nov 3, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say we still had a pretty good conversation here
just not quite this far down. up at the top there’s meaningful discussion about the topic creator’s thread. honest!
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 4, 2009 5:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think i would rather have 3/4 of the draft instead of balmer…
by crevis1987 on Nov 3, 2009 8:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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