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Reconciling Frank Gore and the spread offense

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Paul Sakuma - AP

A day later and yesterday's win is still feeling pretty good.  The play-calling seemed to satisfy the masses, as the shotgun and spread offense were certainly in quite the effect.  The team moved the ball with some efficiency and obviously took care of business.  A win is a win, and I'm as happy as anybody about a win.

However, yesterday's game raised a couple of questions for me, and I'm curious what other folks think.  Primarily, I'm talking about Frank Gore.  Gore finished the game with 16 carries for 33 yards and 7 catches for 14 yards.  I will say that two of his best runs came on that final drive to set up the victory formation at the end of the game.  But, that doesn't cover up the issues he faced the rest of the game.

Simply put, the rushing attack could not get going.  Of course, in yesterday's game it didn't end up mattering as the Jaguars struggled in most facets of the game.  Heading into the game, the Jaguars defense was last in the league in sacks with 10.  They continued to struggle as Alex Smith saw very little pressure for most of the game.  He did take a big hit on one of Vernon Davis's catches, but for the most part he had plenty of time in the pocket.

I bring this up for two reasons.  First, a quality running game can be essential in stopping a strong pass rush.  While this 49ers team may not be the power rushing team Mike Singletary wanted, a decent running game can still be a strong asset to even a spread offense.  Second, the 49ers do face some less than stellar pass rushes, but they also are going to face some solid defenders.  Even this coming weekend they face a Seattle defense that can still be dangerous (17th in the NFL in sacks).

The Jaguars were #3 in the NFL in rushing defense so yesterday's result was not exactly a shocking development.  But it is certainly something to ponder.  The Seahawks will be without Lofa Tatupu which certainly bodes well for Frank Gore.  However, if the team is truly going with a more developed spread offense going forward, like we saw yesterday, will the rushing attack suffer?  Or maybe the short passing options to the tight end become an extension of the rushing game?

I suppose if the 49ers keep winning it doesn't matter.  However, the matchup with Jacksonville is not the best way to assess the rushing game going forward.  So I'm just not sure what to think of it.  What can we expect from the rushing game going forward?

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Gore

the TD was phenominal, and I think the 49ers know they’ll have to get a run game going against Seattle a bit more than Jacksonville. Gore had to get to 1000 after all, if the Niners don’t get the ground game going against teams like Seattle, Arizona, or Philly, they aren’t making a run at the playoffs. Maybe pass heavy will work against Seattle, but not Zona or Philly (at least I don’t think so).

by Andrew Davidson on Nov 30, 2009 7:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yea, against Seattle they’ll have to run the ball a bit more and switch it up, i just really am excited about the fact they have weapons like an elite RB in Gore, and an elite TE with Davis, plus an up and coming WR with Crabtree, they’re moving the ball well

by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We can expect what we have gotten all year until Smith passes better from under center.

Or we get a new OL coach. Gore has had a tough year all year and will continue to do so until we have improved line play. I thought the spread would effect the options for gore in the run game, since running out of the shottgun is not for our team, but our O Line is just pitiful. frank will have bad gains and losses and occasionally break a few but nothing will be steady. (no games at 25 att. for 145 yds without a run over 30)

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 7:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

GAH!

WHY!? Honestly, how can you come to that conclusion so soon? There is still nowhere near enough of a sample to know how effective Gore is running from the shotgun.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

NFL History shows it’s highly unlikely.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see some actual stats on that.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lets see . . .

There is Thurman Thomas, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk and than everyone else. Should tell you the direction Frank Gore needs to head in order to pull it off.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

those are names not stats.

You still haven’t brought any actual evidence to the table.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do I also need to bring you satellite photos to prove the earth isn’t flat?

I named you the three guys who made a name for themselves running out of a Run n’ Shoot offense. If you want piece together all the failed RBs for the old Oilers, Falcons and current Patriots than you do the leg work. You’re still on the wrong side of the coin, statistical post or not. In fact, this is such a worthless claim on your behalf it’s not worth my research time.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, they had to provide some pretty compelling math to prove that Earth wasn’t flat back in the day. I think people died. Math is a violent sport.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You’re the one making the claim, not me. I said that we don’t have enough evidence to determine whether or not Gore can be successful running out of the shotgun. You said that NFL history provides enough evidence, and then provided……..no evidence.

Even if you did bring the names of the failed Oilers, Falcons and Pats RBs, you’d still have to show that the shotgun formation had something to do with their (lack of) success. You’d have to show that they were worse when running from the shotgun as opposed to under center, and it would be really good (though not really required) if you could provide some sort of hypothesis as to WHY. I mean, it’s entirely possible that those RBs were bad, and would have been even worse in a traditional offense. (oh, and by the way, the Pats offense in 2007 was the #2 rushing offense in the NFL by DVOA, and their rushing offense this year is in the top 10, so maybe they aren’t the best example.)

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

oh and by the way

your “earth isn’t flat” example illustrates this perfectly. If I came in here and said “I haven’t seen enough evidence to believe the Earth is round” surely it would be trivial for you to point me to some actual evidence. If however, I came in here and said “the earth is flat”, the onus would be on me to provide the evidence, since I’m the one making the positive claim.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

in other words

if it’s SOOOOOOOOOO blatantly obvious that running out of the shotgun hurts RB’s numbers, it should be absolutely trivial to provide some actual hard evidence of that claim.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's trivial

Running out of the shotgun doesn’t provide enough running opportunities to constitute an effective, viable run game unless you had Thurman Thomas, Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk as your running back. 99% of NFL agrees on this with both Singletary and Jimmy Raye speaking of this topic in last weeks transcripts.

Howey and I were discussing that Patriot DVOA stat the other day. Running out of shotgun can provide excellent yards per carry, which impresses DVOA but it’s not a formation that provides enough viable running opportunities to constitute an actual run threat to the defense.

On that same thought, Alex Smith cannot pass for 300 yards per game out of single WR sets. You want to challenge that claim despite scant statistical evidence? Possibly a little background on football knowledge finds the answer to that question? Maybe you want to challenge my claim that Brandon Jones isn’t the team’s #1 WR. The 49ers haven’t thrown a ball to him, I certainly don’t have any statistical evidence to say he is not.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ugh

IF ITS SO TRIVIAL THEN DO IT ALREADY. Christ. Oh, you want some evidence that Brandon Jones isn’t the team’s #1 WR? OK, here’s some easy evidence to support that claim. It was trivial to come up with: He’s last on the team in catches, td catches, yards and targets. Boom. That was easy.

Oh, and this :

Running out of shotgun can provide excellent yards per carry, which impresses DVOA but it’s not a formation that provides enough viable running opportunities to constitute an actual run threat to the defense.

Might be the dumbest thing I’ve read recently. So, running from the shotgun provides great YPC, but that’s….a bad thing…? somehow…? That makes no sense whatsoever. Riddle me this. What run CAN’T you run from the shotgun that you CAN run from the same formation with the QB under center?

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

in case you haven't noticed,

“because the conventional wisdom says so” is almost never a good enough answer for me. The conventional wisdom can be wrong, and if it’s not, then you should be able to provide some actual evidence that it isn’t.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Nov 30, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Against Seatlle....

…I expect Gore to have a huge day. Seattle was already vulnerable in the middle, and now without Tatupu, it will be even worse for them. Sunday vs. the Jaguars was the game for the passing attack to get off the schnide. Next week vs. the Seahawks will be the game for the running attack to get off the schnide. Both facets figure out how to play just in time for the MNF division showdown after the Cards lose to the Vikings.

by Indiana Jim on Nov 30, 2009 7:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Both facets figure out how to play just in time for the MNF division showdown after the Cards lose to the Vikings.

Let’s just hope the team isn’t thinking like that.

by Andrew Davidson on Nov 30, 2009 9:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i have to say

Gore’s vision wasn’t very good at time yesterday. Maybe he needs to adjust to running out of the gun…but there were several gaping cutback lanes that he kinda missed. I’ve noticed he has a tendency to pick the wrong hole at times in the past too…hopefully Rathman is working hard with Gore to get him finding the right holes.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 7:20 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Right on

You’ve got it right there. That is the difference between running in a pro vs. shotgun/spread formation. Gore has gotten used to being more of a strictly north/south runner. Now he has to be more of a hole finder. I trust he’ll figure it out!

by Mangoman1 on Nov 30, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Crabtree

I hope the guys are giving him the business about dropping that TD catch. Wow, that would have blown it really wide open. I wanted the kid to finish with several TD’s this season too, get some confidence going into a playoff year next year.

Then again VD had a few bad drops too. Hopefully they strap it up for next game.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 7:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think his confidence is already there

I mean after getting 15 yard catches he pops up and claps…reminds me of a cris carter and I love it. And I will say that his route running was better this week then last week from what Ive seen. The Td that he dropped he had just ran a very nice route in leading the guy away from where he was going…it was a tough catch he will get it next time.

"Of all the things in the world losing isn't so bad; it just starts to feel like it does when you do it for so long"

by ninerfanNVA on Nov 30, 2009 7:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I will say that I loved his reaction to getting his first NFL touchdown the other week. You know what he did? He acted like he’d been there before. No hysterics. No histrionics. Just a little excitement for the score and let’s get back to freaking business.

Granted, it was just one score and we were losing at the time, but I still liked it.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

crabtree

Coincidentally enough I have a post about his reactions yesterday going up in a few minutes.

by Fooch on Nov 30, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Second that

We'll see them again in the playoffs! What channel is it on?

by silverjay on Nov 30, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

But of the two drops for Crabtree and VD i saw, only one of each was really their faults. The one pass to Crabtree (not the TD pass) was really high, and the one by the goal line VD dropped was just a really good play by the defender to knock the ball out with his helmet.

The Niners had great success running against Seatte the first time around, and with a better threat to pass this time, running should be even easier.

by sanfranfanmdk on Nov 30, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gore has struggled this year

and it’s not all been the O-line’s fault. He’s missed open holes, he’s hesitated a bit when he’s gotten the ball. Sad fact is that RBs have a very short shelf-life. You can expect a running back to be awesome for 4-6 years, after which he’ll be merely ok.

This is Frank’s 5th season.

Will a better O-line help? Absolutely. A good change of pace back will also help.

by smileyman on Nov 30, 2009 7:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The other thing about Gore

is that he’s always been kind of a boom or bust kind of guy.

He’s averaging 5 yards a carry right now. On the face of it that looks pretty good, but we all know it’s because he goes for 2 or 3 yrds most of the time and then lets off a big one. YPC on 2005 was 4.8, in 2006 (his best year), it was 5.4, 2007 YPC was 4.2, and in 2008 YPC was 4.3.

We also had losing seasons in each of those years.

Here are the top rushers in the league right now:

Chris Johnson—1395 yds
Steven Jackson—1120 yds
Adrian Peterson—1084 yds
DeAngelo Williams—1022 yds
Maurie Jones-Drew—1001 yds

You’ll notice something interesting about all those backs. Other than AP all of their teams have losing records. The Titans are starting to win games now, but it’s because they now have a QB they can lean in VY. And of course the Vikings have Favre.

by smileyman on Nov 30, 2009 7:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oops

Jacksonville also has a winning record

They’ve played against some bad teams but their record is still a winning one. And it’s Maurice, not Maurie (see what happens when you don’t preview your replies?).

by smileyman on Nov 30, 2009 8:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't swear it I do it all the time

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sweat it!!

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The only difference I’ve seen this year from Gore that I didn’t see in previous years has been that his legs aren’t moving as well under a pile. He used to move his legs constantly, pushing with that ridiculous lower-body leverage of his, which accounted for those nice second-effort yards we all remember and love. But I think he might be protecting his body a little more this year. And running behind that line, I don’t know if I can blame him.

This year, with the combination of the line play and his injury history, he’s probably trying to get the yards that are given to him instead of forcing the issue so much just so that he can live to fight for another play.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why the heck

isn’t Coffee getting a few more touches? He needs to see a few 1st and 2nd downs on a few series. I can’t think of many teams that don’t get their #2 RB at least half a dozen touches.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What’s Coffee’s status right now? I know he was hurt.

I also think that Gore just has much better value on passing plays. He’s a great blocker, and he’s a huge asset as a checkdown option or on screens. So as strange as it sounds to say, having Gore in the game actually helps to keep the defense on their toes. Until Coffee becomes a much better blocker, he’s probably not going to see as many snaps as we’d like.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Coffee is a 2nd running back at best

No flashes of greatness and I hope not the predecessor of Gore.

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Successor.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he still needs to spell Gore a bit more

rest the horse, give the defense a different kind of runner who might zig instead of zag.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Frank had 16 carries, what are you spelling him from? Plus, Coffee isn’t a different type of runner, it’s zig and less zig.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rest the horse?

18 carries for 38 yards, so he took 50 -60 steps in live action? He is resting on the field.

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 8:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Missed Holes?

I went over your perceived missed hole fan post and didn’t see any evidence in your claim.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I did see him run into the pile

rather than take a huge cutback lane with 1 man to beat…probably twice on Sunday. have to rewatch the game for specifics.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That one man to beat is an unblocked linebacker. This same NFL linebacker will be in that hole once the RB even sniffs a cut back.

Frank’s best gift is he sticks with blockers and extends the play hoping they can finish that block to spring him.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As far as Gore

I’m beginning to think that we are underestimating the ability of Jimmy Raye to play to his strengths when playing different teams. I don’t think Raye opened it up because the fans and everyone was calling for it I think he opened it up because the team was ready to do so because teams stack the box against the run. Now that the 49ers are trying to throw more teams will have to bring more players out of the box and we will see the return of Gore…“In Singraye We trust”

"Of all the things in the world losing isn't so bad; it just starts to feel like it does when you do it for so long"

by ninerfanNVA on Nov 30, 2009 7:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

gore

idon’t believe that he’s going to be able to run up the gut with the line as it stands. i haven’t seen to many runs to the outside except for screens and would like to see how much better that would go.

by srill waiting on Nov 30, 2009 7:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

that was yesterday

in order to gage tomorrow, we need to know the problems that could bite us.

by Ovalshine on Nov 30, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

From Matt Barows
Against the Jaguars, Raye ceased to be Jimmy Raye, curmudgeonly assistant. He was Air Raye, ambitious innovator.

Barrows

by smileyman on Nov 30, 2009 8:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Crazy to think

that despite the loss, Jacksonville is still the #2 team in the AFC wildcard race, after Denver at 7-4. You’d think that we were playing one of the bottom feeders and not a team where if the playoffs started today, they’d be in. Did we truly step up our game or did the Jags revert back to early season form?

by Rep the Bay on Nov 30, 2009 8:38 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow, what the hell happened to Denver… my buddy called it about 4 or 5 weeks ago that San DIego would be on top of the division

by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think our strengths on defense and offense was a complete mismatch for wht they want to do on defense and O.

Game could have been different if their all-pro corner played, but not that different. I hope they keep winning games they will be after E Berry.

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gore: 23 plays, 47 yards?

That’s very unlike the Gore of old. He should be able to get more yards than that without even having an O line, ’specially as good as the the passing game was.

If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.

by cybermaldonado on Nov 30, 2009 9:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

the important stat

FINAL DRIVE: Frank Gore 3 carries, 13 yards. That lead to the Victory formation and a Niners W. Gore didn’t do a lot of running out a regular I-form, aside from on that final series.

by Andrew Davidson on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

23 plays for Gore but two of those really stand out....

That tip-toe TD catch and him following QB Smith on that scramble was a thing of beauty…. you don’t teach that…. that’s just natural instinct, IQ, intelligence whatever you want to call it…..

Secondly he got that first down on that last drive. Gore will have his chances w/ the new spread formation and I’m just glad he stuck w/ it and didn’t get too frustrated…..

REMEMBER TEAM first and your stats will come when they will come. Hope Crabs, VD, and Gore all remember this even when they aren’t always the focal point of the offense. In this system as any system all players have to get touches. I’m loving that Delaine Walker was incorporated into the game calling because I really like his pass catching ability and speed!!

by 49er Faithful925 on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Walker

yep, I like seeing him in the slot. I think a lot of people tend to forget he was a WR in college and has pretty good speed.

by Andrew Davidson on Nov 30, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The announcers kept saying Walker was a RB in college

wtf?

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 30, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gore's line

No secret that the Niners need the draft to solidify the OL. They must open holes for Gore & allow Alex 5-7 step drops. The spread is the ace-in-the-hole. Worst-case draft scenario: the top OTs are gone & Niners have their choice of a stud DL, OLB or DB for the 1st pick. Second choice would be best OT available or the top OG. Best-case scenario is that a top OT is available for 1st pick and Niners can then choose the best DEF player available or take the top OG for a stud OL. Back to back OL draft picks may indirectly help the DEF by giving them more rest. A stud OL has to be able to drive block for Gore and pass block to provide the time for Alex to find the talented Niners receivers. Patience, Niner fans, the pieces are falling into order.

by Flyin' Taco on Nov 30, 2009 9:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

What sucks is we won't have enough early picks once we make the playofffs

And the Guard from FSU will be taken before we draft in the second round.

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what's carolina's remaining schedule?

I’m guessing they play New Orleans and Atlanta again, right? With the Delhomme meltdown back on schedule (did you see some of those prayers he was tossing to NO ONE?!?)…we can only hope we get a 10-ish pick from them and a mid-rounder ourselves.

Best available, but has to be either OL, secondary or pass rusher, in that order.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Delhomme has broken finger on throwing hand

so maybe that helps the cause some too…if his rainbow prayer-throws don’t…

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

panthers remaining

Bucs
Pats
Vikings
Giants
Saints

5-11 likely.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

RLlott,rlott#42

RLlott,
Actually I was referring to, OG lupati, from Idaho, but it doesn’t matter. You are right; the top OG will be gone by the second round. For the Carolina 1st round pick, I’m suggesting taking, depending upon availability, a top OT. If not available, choose a monster pass rushing DE/OLB or a speedy, shut down DB. For the 49er 1st round pick, take the remaining middle top tier OT if the CAR pick was a DEFstud . If Niners get their OT with the CAR pick, then they can use their 1st round pick on their choice of the left over middle top DE/OLBs, or create a stud OL by snagging their top-of- the-board OG

by Flyin' Taco on Nov 30, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I certainly wouldn't cry

if the niners used two 1st rounders on the OL. However, I’ll be more pleased if the CBA is renegotiated in time to prevent an uncapped 2010, therefore making guys like Tyson Clabo, Winston Justice and Jeremy Trueblood UFAs.

I’d take Clabo or Trueblood at RT over any rookie, and then draft an OG with the second first round pick, after sniping BPA with our first 1st rounder. I really don’t think we need an OLB as bad as we thought. Haralson and Lawson are getting good pressure, and Ahmad Brooks was pretty damn good yesterday. We do need a FS that can a] tackle and b] cover.

by Andrew Davidson on Nov 30, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

UFA veteran offensive tackle

would open drafting options. Still loving on niner OLBs, but it’d be great to rotate in a monster pass rushing DE/OLB if DBs were gone. We could pray for a Crabtree-like- drop and niners get a NT to rotate with Franklin. Had to hold my breath when he looked hurt. His a crucial position.

by Flyin' Taco on Nov 30, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouold try to trade back to pick up an additional 2nd and later first if the first pick went that well

Berry

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gore's best games have all come against the seahawks

He’s hit the 200 yard mark against them multiple times. Hopefully he’ll have another big game on Sunday

It seems like most comments so far have been negative, but on a more positive note, Gore has scored 9 touchdowns despite only playing in 8 games. Excellent production.

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

by lincecuminyourface on Nov 30, 2009 9:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yea but Gore's performance was reflected on the rest of the players performance.

He managed barely 2 yards per touch on 23 total touches but I’m sure on of the Jaguars goals to win the game was to stop Frank Gore. He had a TD and good blocking against bad Jaguard pas rush, but overall with 40+ yards and a TD in a winning performance is not too terrible.

My main point is that Jaguars concentrated on him but left the game for our receivers to have some good numbers and big plays when we needed them. I don’t think this is a bad sign at all for the running game for this season. Plus, now Frank has a chance to make adjustments of what he should do after playing most of the game in a different style than all previous games this year.

by fortyniners on Nov 30, 2009 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

good point

We'll see them again in the playoffs! What channel is it on?

by silverjay on Nov 30, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, and you can't abandon it (the run)

if you do, they’ll just play pass every down and you’ll have little success. they intend to take the run away…they don’t do that by just stopping you for a while and you just give up on it. they have to actively come and try to stop you, leaving the passing game more open.

i wish Gore had cracked off one big run though.

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Could be

that Singletary is right: The shotgun handicaps Gore’s ability to run downhill. Anyway, he certainly redeemed himself with that ballerina-like TD catch.

We'll see them again in the playoffs! What channel is it on?

by silverjay on Nov 30, 2009 11:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I would say Singletary is right

I kept hearing we went spread because that’s what works best for Smith and Crabtree. Gore is a power runner and was the centerpiece of Singletary’s envisioned offense. I hope Singletary now knows that Gore don’t have to be the centerpiece anymore and really shouldn’t be. He is a leg in the 4-legged tandem of Gore, Smith, Crabtree and Davis. We can’t abandon the power running in favor of spread, but the spread needs to remain a big piece of the offense.

That said, it’s good that the issue is raised as it should’ve been raised 9 weeks ago. But, better late than never, I suppose.

by Ovalshine on Nov 30, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The 49ers are a passing team...

They have to be if they have a shot at anything.

Well, we're waiting....

by drummer on Nov 30, 2009 11:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Being in temporary exile in New Jersey without internet access (unless I'm at the town library)

I didn’t see the whole game, but the network switched to it in the fourth quarter. During the last quarter I don’t recall Gore running from the spread at all. What I saw is what I’ve seen all year—Gore is getting hit in the backfield, or at best the O-line isn’t getting a push. And almost every run was right up the middle.

So I missed all the scoring and have no clue as to whether there was any running from the spread earlier in the game, but it seems that Frank can’t do any worse running from the spread than running from a regular formation.

How badly is Warner dinged up? Will he be back against the Vikings next week?

by Bob On The Coast on Nov 30, 2009 11:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

i'm guessing warner will be back

but at his age…it only takes one more big hit from Jared Allen to change his playing status for future games…

by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No clue about Warner. Post-concussion symptoms lingering to the effect of “blurred vision and dizziness” a full week later is worrisome, but not necessarily damning. I’m sure they’ll treat it with all possible care, though, especially since they still have two games on the division.

If he still has any symptoms after, like, Thursday, I expect he’ll be shut down completely for another week. Hopefully it’s not any worse than that. He’ll probably be fine though. It’s hard to tell with brain injuries – there really is no reliable timetable for concussions.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A few things to consider.

First, how often has Gore had to run out of a shotgun set? It’s a completely different look for him. I’m sure once he has some more work with it, he’ll get going like we all know he can.

Second, the Jags are pretty darned good at stopping the run. Just sayin…

Third, just like some teams use the run to set up the pass, the opposite can also work. Teams can use the pass to open up running lanes. If the shotgun spread Alex is running continues to find success, defenses will have to respect it more and drop more defenders back into coverage. This will open up more running lanes for Gore. Now, Jacksonville’s pass D is pretty terrible, so Smith looking good against it, while nice to see, isn’t necessarily a sign he is turning any sort of corner. It may be, but we’ll need more time to see what develops in this offense.

Finally, Gore has taken a beating over the last few years. He’s been really good at getting extra yards after initial contact, and diving into piles trying to move them…but all this takes a tole. There’s a reason running backs have a short life-span in this league. I’m not saying that Gore is anywhere near the end of his career. However, I think it’s starting to get to the point where Gore needs a reliable change of pace back that can be legitimately used for 10 carries a game or so. Whether that is Coffee, or someone else, a RB who can take some of the load off Gore, and give him a few series off, will keep him fresh and ready to dominate.

Anyways, I’m not too concerned yet. Gore is an elite back, and he’ll figure out how to make it work in the new offense. But it does give one pause when he has such a lackluster game (aside from the TD, of course).

Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!

by ZeroIndulgence on Nov 30, 2009 12:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

You Can Be Successfull Runnning Out Of The Spread

Gore had some nice runs in the 2nd half against Chicago when we ran the spread on occasion. I think it has more to do with Gore getting comfortable in that formation. He has never run it up to this season and it’s an entirely different ballgame then the normal offense they run.

I am going to assume that the 49ers will beat Seattle (more on that in a second) and that Arizona will lose to the Vikings ( i don’t think that is too much of a stretch) So if that happens it sets up a huge Monday Night Matchup in two weeks that will most likely be for the division. Also don’t forget that the Philadelphia game becomes increasingly important in the Wild Card hunt.

Reasons why the 49ers will beat Seattle.

  1. My sister is traveling to the game and he brings great luck to our 49ers team. Take that for what it’s worth but they are 6-0 in the last 6 games that she has attended LOL
  1. Seattle’s pass defense ranks 25th in the NFL and with the 49ers running the spread offense and Smith most likely to throw it 40+ times again i see this as a big advantage for the 49ers. Smith: 487 Yards- 5TD- INT 65.6 Comp % over the last 6 quarters. He is starting to show why he was a #1 pick, I expect that to continue next week
  1. Seattle ranks 28th in the league in rushing offense and the 49ers are #5 in rush defense. That is an obvious advantage for San Francisco heading into the game. And it puts more pressure on Hasselbeck to throw more. And with a questionable offense line (26 Sacks allowed in 2009) i expect the 49ers pass rush to be effective.

"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"

by nocal81 on Nov 30, 2009 12:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

dude whoa
My sister is traveling to the game and he brings great luck to our 49ers team.

lol at the typo.

by Andrew Davidson on Nov 30, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More offensive

He is assuming a win.

by bignerd on Nov 30, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Offensive to whom? Not 49er fans. Nothing wrong with having a little confidence!

by Mangoman1 on Nov 30, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Running backs we have struggled against?

Forte, Hightower, and Johnson

Small quick backs give us a headache whether it be on the ground or in the air. The game against Seattle was close until Hass got hurt. This game will be the 2nd hardest game on the schedule and I know we have Philly, but division games are the most difficult to play, and they taste that loss still. Remember we went to Seattle and had “The Replacements” beat us.

We can win, and it will come down to stopping Forsett early and making the birds one dimensional early. Then we need to not turnover th ball and use the spread once we have reached the 50 or passed it.

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Forte?

I actually think they struggled the most against Ryan Grant

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by chikmagnet_565 on Nov 30, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Overlooked

I haven’t seen anything about what I think was one of the most significant stats from yesterday. The Niners went from 27% (3-11) 3rd down efficiency against GB to 50% (8-16) yesterday. Just goes to show how moving the ball and keeping your offense on the field can do wonders!

by Mangoman1 on Nov 30, 2009 1:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

OR

it shows that:
Green Bay defense: Good!
Jacksonville defense: Bad!

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Nov 30, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

But you have to admit that in the 2nd half when the majority of the plays were being run in the formation the Niners were in just about all day yesterday, they did manage to make the Pakers at least a little uncomfortable. So if they were able to do that against a good defense, I think we are hopefully seeing the beginnings of a much more competetive offense.

by Mangoman1 on Nov 30, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The running game pretty much sucks either way

And I think Gore is happy just getting 15+ touches a game no matter how they occur.

by whistlingmountain on Nov 30, 2009 3:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

screen passes (slightly OT)

Why do the Niners suck so bad at screen passes?

I could think of a few reasons… but don’t have any film (or time) to check.

1) OL sucks at, you know, moving – or maybe just bad technique
2) Screens only called at obvious times
3) Screens called to wrong personnel (Gore?)
4) QBs goof them up somehow?

It does seem like 3) makes the least sense… I mean when the Niners run a bad screen (i.e, most of their screens) they seem to get immediately blown up… so I am inclined to think some combination of 1) and 2).

Screens are mostly useful vs. a blitz or strong straight-ahead rush, right? So it seems like it would be useful for us. Maybe when the defense is just getting pressure with front 4 they don’t work?

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Nov 30, 2009 4:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I further would like to point out

that they seem to work VERY well against our defense… but I have not studied the phenomena analytically (does FO premium designate screen passes?)

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Nov 30, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's how the screen is set up

You have to disguise the obvious, and with Raye’s offense being old, defenses today can easily sniff them out! We should use screens like the Eagles with 1 or two lineman whiffing instead of the obvious 3. How about a screen with V Davis lined up at WR next to Crabs to clear a defender. We don’t use our personnel.

"Optimist Prime"
"CHILD PLEASE"......................-E. Ochocinco
Morgan dropped a TD, and the whole blogospere went nuts!!
Yes I want Eric Bery to be a 49er!

by rlott#42 on Nov 30, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

QUIT LOOKING FOR THE NEGATIVES!!!

you could’ve posted this on wednesday or thursday… lets soak in this W for now…

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"

by Bo$$Ixta! on Nov 30, 2009 4:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

posting time

Well, seeing as this has to do with yesterday’s game I’d rather post it soon after and then move on to the next game after that. It’s not so much looking for negatives, as considering the context of the situation.

by Fooch on Nov 30, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Question

Right now, Frank Gore has a total of 643 rushing yards. With no obvious signs of change in their spread offense gameplan, and with five games left in the season, would you say that Gore could reach his mark of 1000 yards rushing again for the fourth straight year?

by Mr. Nice Guy on Nov 30, 2009 10:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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