Why Alex Smith should be starting for the rest of the season
Well, by the time this goes up (I'm writing it the night before), people will hopefully have had a chance to have calmed down from a rather bitter loss to the Tennessee Titans. At the very least, people will be at work and not screaming at their computer screens in anger. Personally, I tend to be angry about the game for a couple hours after it finishes before it subsides and I'm ready to move on. We've got plenty to discuss about the Titans game (and plenty of threads to do it in), and of course with the short week we've got the Bears to discuss as well.
This post really covers both games, and plenty more going forward. There were numerous complaints about yesterday's game, but the biggest was definitely the performance of Alex Smith. Smith finished 29/45 for 286 yards with 2 touchdowns, 3 interceptions and 1 fumble. Not exactly a shining performance, and given the timing and results of the various turnovers, people were quick to jump all over Smith. And given his past performance, I don't think anybody could be surprised when people jumped all over our starting QB.
However, I also think that it is necessary to keep Smith in there and keep sending him out there. Barring an injury, the 49ers have an important opportunity at their disposal. They can finally decide one way or the other, what exactly Alex Smith brings to the table. Is he the guy who lit up Houston in the second half? Is he the guy who struggled against Indy, but kept his team in it? Or is he the guy who yacked it up late in the game against Tennessee? At this point he could be any one of those guys.
If Smith struggles the rest of the way, then finally you can cut bait, or at least know you've got nothing more than a second string QB. Cutting bait on Smith at this point would simply be too soon. Yes he struggled, and yes he's making some of the same mistakes he made two years ago. But he's also shown some skills and some improvement in his game. Maybe it's not enough to save his career in San Francisco, but I'd rather take my chances figuring that out over the next two months.
One big argument for switching things up in some manner (be it Shaun Hill or Nate Davis) is the idea that Smith is costing the 49ers wins and this team needs to be battling for a playoff spot. To those I say that at this point in time, Alex Smith gives the 49ers their best chance to win. This is where the chants of wins and losses come into play. Alex Smith did not make some bad plays to cost them the game, but I will go to my grave arguing that wins and losses are not a quarterback stat; they're team stats.
More after the jump...
I've posted a poll to see who people are lining up behind at this point in the season. We've heard clamoring for a lot of folks, although the Shaun Hill crowd has been relatively quiet. Alex Smith simply brings more athleticism to the quarterback position, which is necessary if you want to take advantage of the various weapons on display. When you've got guys like Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree, or even potentially emerging Jason Hill and Josh Morgan, you need more than a game manager at the helm.
Shaun Hill simply cannot make the plays needed to have any sort of high octaine offense. He can make the occasional solid play to move the chains, but I believe Alex Smith can do that on a more consistent basis. This offense needs some level of consistency and at this point I'd rather see if Smith can do it. I simply see no upside at this point to Shaun Hill. Again, maybe Alex Smith just doesn't pan out after this season. But at least let's find out for sure.
One particularly expected reaction yesterday was from the Nate Davis crowd. Folks have clamored for him based on his preseason performance. While I do think Nate Davis is talented and could eventually be a starting-caliber NFL QB, I don't think that time is now. Plenty of good quarterbacks in this league sat out an entire season, if not more, before getting their crack at the starting lineup.
At this point, this turns into somewhat of a money decision, at least for 2009. When you've invested so much time and money into an asset, do you want to just dump it before being as close to 100% sure about it as possible? I'd imagine some folks are 100% sure Alex Smith is not the answer. At this point I'm still on the fence. I'm swaying towards dump him, but I think the wise course of action is to make certain.
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I agree, but I think it has little to do with money.
Shaun Hill wasn’t doing anything, and there is no reason to play nate now.
by DesertFox on Nov 9, 2009 7:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The team has had three offensive touchdowns in one and a half out of the two and a half games that Alex Smith has started. They had that zero times with Shaun Hill. The offense is simply more dynamic with Alex Smith. Yes, he’s going to struggle. What were we expecting?
I don’t know why I made this comment as a response to yours. It seemed relevant when I started typing it. Now, it feels like it has nothing to do with your comment. Take it as a standalone.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“The team has had three offensive touchdowns in one and a half out of the two and a half games that Alex Smith has started. They had that zero times with Shaun Hill.”
Hill didn’t have Crabtree.
And for a while didn’t have Gore.
Also.. With the amount of turnovers that Smith coughs up, it essentially makes him less valuable than Hill. More dynamic, sure.. But that comes at a cost when you don’t have a quarterback who can handle the ball well in a dynamic offense.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
all four of those turnovers could have happened to Hill. Really only one was all on Smith.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The only difference between Hill and Smith regarding turnovers really is that Hill’s fumbles got recovered by the 49ers. He coughed the ball up A LOT, and with extreme consistency. He just didn’t do it through the air.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if Hill was asked to throw the ball as much as Smith
and/or asked to throw the same downfield passes, he probably would have been intercepted more
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 9, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point
Hill has never been asked to do as much as Alex.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much this, i saw the niners run the ball more when Hill was in the game
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the answer is
To have Alex Smith play with a Shaun Hill game plan (worked against Houston, no?)
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, they had a lot of downfield throws vs houston
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's doubtful that they would have.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
instead we would have ran up the middle three times for 2 yards and punted
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 9, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's better than a TO
These interceptions/fumbles are poison. Pure poison.
You can’t win like that. Just cant.
You can win with 6 3-and-outs (I know because we did it)
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can win with 6 3-and-outs (I know because we did it).
Against two awful teams and the Cardinals. WOO!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying what we did against the Titans is enough to win. Obviously it’s not. I’m just saying that there is something very backward about the “we should try to have an offense that is guaranteed not to score because IT’S POSSIBLE TO WIN THAT WAY” mentality.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See: 2009 San Francisco Giants.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From the basement, the elevator only goes up
Obviously, beating lousy teams isn’t what we’re looking for, but it’s a start. Losing to lousy teams, however, simply means that you’re among them.
by silverjay on Nov 9, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shaun Hill gets no respect !! The stores never even sold his jersey !!!
SHAUN HILL GETS NO RESPECT !! THE NFL STORES NEVER EVEN SOLD HIS JERSEYS
Shaun Hill broke the all time NFL record for most completions in his first starting game, and he won most of his games with a crappy offensive line. Alex Smith fumpled the ball, threw tons of interceptions, and made tons of bad decisions, and you still pull for the over rated college star who had one of the best offensive lines in college to relax behind. Shaun Hill knows the game speed,and makes cat like instinctual plays. He is smart, where Alex Smith has phhsical skills but lacks mental skills. In the end, mental skills always win.
by KORY SHEETS WAS OUR FUTURE on Nov 9, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
X-POST!!!!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2009 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
let alex PLAY!!!!!
We never supported this guy we owe him the chance to support him when he came here we where a god awful team ZERO talent i would have liked to see even payton manning make that work we need to all cheer for him and give him the chance with some talent around hin to see what he can be he has impressed me 3 int 2 where not his fault bounced off recivers hands in to the air it gonna happen and he has had tight nice passes to crabtree and davis lets not just focus on the bad also his completion percentage looks very nice so get over it P.S alex if your reading this I TRULY BELIVE IN YOU GOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! ALEX SMITH
cppeter
by foreveryoung66 on Nov 9, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i was at the game
so i t was hard to get a good look at the passes that were picked… ive got it recorded though so im going to watch it today. HOWEVER, if you take into account the tipped balls (the one on the sideline was pure bad luck) i was impressed with his performance. yes, he threw a few high passes that gave me flashbacks of a couple of years ago, but overall the team seemed improved on offense.
by pwarren85 on Nov 9, 2009 7:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And..
the last INT was a bad no call on pass interference, the defender was getting a piggy back ride from the WR before the ball got there…the only turnover that was a really bad play from Smith was his second INT
by sanfranfanmdk on Nov 9, 2009 7:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of tips but...
…at least one of the INTs was because Smith fixated on his receiver and telegraphed the pass.
by Bigmouth on Nov 9, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the game as well..
I felt as if $315 bucks had been lifted by a pick pocket after the game. A TOTAL GUT PUNCH that missed low…
As for Smith’s performance, it wasn’t great. but I dont believe it was totally the reason why the Niners lost. I think our defense looked lost and unpaired. It was the WORST performance by the defense this year. They were put in bad positions by the Niner offense, and they failed to hold at any time. their run defense was shredded by Chris Johnson, who had more yards than any back this year against the Niners including Adrian Peterson. It was just a really bad game all the way around. Poor Offensive execution and not one receiver made an effort to get open. With no open receivers, Smith was forced to either throw the ball away, or try to force the ball into tight coverage. Neither proved effective yesterday. I would say that if the Niners dont come out on Thursday Night and just D E S T R O Y the Chicago Bears, their season is O V E R! It is probably over now anyway, but there is no hope at A L L if they lose to the Bears as well. It is quickly becoming basketball season as My Kings have now won 2 in a row beating the hapless Warriors last night. That was the only bright spot in an otherwise dismal weekend.
1) 160$ for tickets
2) 30$ TO PARK ON DIRT???
3) 60$ for snacks and stuff.
4) 45$ for Gas from Lincoln, CA.
5) 20$ for incidental purchases
-———————————————————————————
$ 315.00 to watch a team come out in the second half, roll over and play dead? Never Again!
I could get a 8 game pack for 2 at that price and get WAY more entertainment than the product that was on the field at Candlestick/Monster/put your name here whore park. Until the Niners get a real QB, the rest of the team is just going to go thru the motions. I can tell by the body language of the players that they have little or no respect or confidence in Alex Smith being able to perform the task his JOB requires him to do. He is a Major League B U S T! I predict he is waived at the end of the season, McCluless gets the A X and replaced by a real NFL GM type who can bring in real NFL Talent, and the Niners use one of their first 2 first round draft picks on a Quarterback. The other first round pick better be on an offensive lineman. The Niner’s offensive line is the W O R S T in the league. Period. Bar NONE! Who is in charge of bringing in talent and making sure that all facets of the team are stocked with talented players who can make a difference on Sunday? That is the GM. McClueless has run the team into the ground with his totally ignoring our offensive woes, our pass rushing woes, and our Quarterback woes. Those 3 things have plagued the Niners for 6+ years, but N O T H I N G has been done to address any of these D I R E problems. Place the blame where it belongs. The G M is a I D I O T!! The Coach coaches the players he has on the field. But if he is given nothing but lemons, dont expect him to make a 6 course gourmet meal ! Not going to happen. I wasted 315.00 dollars to go to the game with my son. There was a drunken brawl behind us that I had to shield my son’s eyes from. there were numerous Titan Fans who were in the Niner’s hasd core section getting pelted by ice and peanuts. It was an U G L Y scene for a 8 year old boy to see. Top that off with a dismal debacle on the field, and it made for a disappointing
first football game experience. I was disgusted with the fans surly behavior. And the drivers leaving the park were as considerate as bank thieves. No, we wont be wasting that kind of money to see poorly executed football, rowdy fans that were far too drunk to even care what was happening on the field. All in all really soured me on the whole “Going to the Game with my son” Experience. He didn’t really enjoy it and neither did I. We can sit at home and watch bad football. Bad football looks better in hd laying down on a leather recliner.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
by FaStRmAn on Nov 9, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The team is still going through growing pains. Just wait until he goes to high school fights just become the norm.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 9, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ill give you some of that
hammered fans who know nothing about football can completely ruin a game for you. i was there with my girlfriend (my dad game me his seats because he was out of the country on a trip) the beginning of the game was fin… couple of family with kids next to us etc.. however when the family that sat next to us left, 4 completely hammered 30 year olds came down and the cheering etc simply became a chorus of F-u’s at players on both teams. sad to see a few idiots ruining the game for everyone.
by pwarren85 on Nov 9, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nate Davis
needs to sit and reflect on what’s going on, not get thrown to the wolves. If we lose 2 or 3 more in a row, maybe put Nate in to close out the season, but by no means put pressure on the guy.
I didn’t think Smith had that terrible of a game, the 3 INTs is a heart-breaker, but the defense didn’t do what they were supposed to do. I’m not putting the loss soley on any one person’s shoulders, because the offense was looking good in terms of variety and lack of 3-and-Outs. We just shot ourselves in the foot when it hurt most. Same can be said about our defense. How can Parys Haralson let Chris Johnson get that TD when he had the play stuffed and stopped? Sloppy tackling at an in opportune time.
Josh Morgan let’s a ball bounce of he and a defender and Finnegan takes it back for six. That’s not on Smith 100%, it’s on Morgan a bit too. He’s got to do a better job than he did yesterday. Jason Hill was our best WR of the game, but celebrating the garbage time TD was just pathetic. Michael Crabtree needs to catch that ball at the sideline, but more importantly, the offense needs to hurry up and spike that ball in a situation like that. Instead, Smith had Crab run all the way back across the formation which gave the refs enough time to get the booth review. Absolutely disgusting.
Overall, Shaun Hill would not have done a better job. Our team did a great job of blowing a contest they shoulda coulda woulda won. Sounds like a theme as of late. Looks like that mid-season slump wasn’t Nolan’s fault entirely. It’s a trend that needs to be addressed. We can’t be going on 4 game slides and expect to make the playoffs. The team has to go 6-1 to get to 10-6. Chicago got embarassed at home by the Cardinals, and now both the Niners and Bears have a short week for a game this Thursday in Prime Time.
If an angry Bears team shows up, we’re screwed.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 9, 2009 7:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bears are in worse shape
So perhaps they should be worried about an agnry Niners team.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
niners didn't trade for a "Quality" QB
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which one was available
No one trades quality QB’s
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 9, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What i mean was, the Broncos got draft picks for Cutler… that’s all i’m saying, the Bears with Cutler is something i dont understand, is it that he was overrated coming in?
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a great stat QB
Look at yesterday. Granted, his defense was so awful that I can’t wait to our offense face them on Thursday. But Cutler will give you 2 or 3 TD passes and 300 + yards in many losses. But he’s no leader. And he seems to get many of his stats when the game is decided not when he has chance to make a difference.
I can’t blame Chicago fans for being QB desperate. Other than McMahon, when did they last have a top-10 QB? The 1960s? Puts our QB frustration in perspective.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh for sure, i understand he can put up great numbers in a defeat or victory. My buddy has him on his fantasy team, and you’re right, the problem is he’s not a leader at all.
Chicago got extremely desperate by trading away draft picks for Cutler, and Orton is average at best, i honestly have no idea how he’s actually doing decent in Denver, probably because of the players around him that make him better, especially the defense, i agree with you.
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Orton has an O-line
That we only wish we had here. That’s the biggest reason he is doing so well. Certainly the defense prevents him from having to carry the team, thus he can play within his skill level and not do too much.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Orton’s actually a pretty good QB. There’s a reason that McDaniel coveted him so highly over Cutler in the offseason.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a 1st and 2 3rd's
He wasn’t worth that much to a team that desperately needs their picks(49ers)
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 9, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
other way around, 2 firsts and a third.
by RilezG on Nov 9, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even worse
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 10, 2009 2:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
next few games will tell where we are
some have us out of the race already…mathematically we’re still VERY much in it. Arizona has 8 games to lose 2 of them…assuming we win out, or they can lose 4 and we lose 2, but either way, we need to win the head to head.
if we drop a few more games and Arizona doesn’t start losing…it will come time to write off the season officially and then I think you have to start Davis. At that point Smith can play as well as he can but it will be tainted by “the games didn’t matter”. Smith has played for teams with no chance of going to the playoffs before. We need him to win big games of significance.
by Tre9er on Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Screaming
At the very least, people will be at work and not screaming at their computer screens in anger.
Are you kidding? Still screaming at my screen in anger, just at work stuff, instead of the Niners …
"This could be another Very Special Team" ... Superbowl winning Niners lineman Dan Audick ...
by LondonNiner on Nov 9, 2009 7:29 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
i'm having a hard time working myself
still stung by the scathing loss…
by Tre9er on Nov 9, 2009 7:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still continue
to lose sleep lol
by sanfranfanmdk on Nov 9, 2009 8:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
49er fans suck.
They piss and moan that Raye’s play calling is too conservative. So, he opens it up for Alex who with his lack of natural instincts screws it up again. Still the slow delivery, slow decision making, inaccurate passing we have come to know and love from Alex.
Fans cry about being conservative. So, let’s give the QB of the future a chance to get his feet wet and Niner fans cry “No”. You can’t play a rookie. He has to sit for a whole year to learn and not get discouraged. That is Mike Nolan-type thinking.
Alex is not the answer and never will be. Neither is Hill. Nate Davis needs to get some experience now so he doesn’t enter next season as the starter without ever having touched the field. It’s what Walsh did for Montana, and what Singletary needs to do for Davis. It worked for Montana — he won the Super Bowl.
Kezarvet
by kezarvet on Nov 9, 2009 7:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Laughable.
You conveniently ignore the fact that Montana had some of the best teams EVER around him.
Give Nate Davis a starting job right now, with this team, and this offensive line, and he is Alex Smith all over again.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And that he had all of 23 pass attempts in his rookie season.
Nate Davis needs to get some experience now so he doesn’t enter next season as the starter without ever having touched the field. It’s what Walsh did for Montana.
When Montana didn’t enter any season as the starter until his third season in 1981. He played sparingly in 1980, starting 7 games and getting into a handful of other games during low pressure situations.
So, kezarvet, you’re really championing the idea of giving Nate Davis a higher learning curve than Joe Montana?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with your conclusion but
it is my duty to correct the misconception, especially among 9er fans, that Montana always had “all-time great” teams around him. The ’81 superbowl offense had Dwight Clark, Randy Cross, and no other big names. The defense was solid but nowhere near “all-time”. Montana was great period, not because he always had elite teammates.
As to Nate Davis not being Joe Montana, carry on.
by monophonik on Nov 9, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not said enough
People always group the best players throughout the 1980 teams to make it seem as Montana was always surrounded by a group of stars. Typically I read fans of other teams doing this to discredit his accomplishments.
by bignerd on Nov 9, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen that as well
Check out the running game he had in 1981. And other than The Catch, Clark would not be a household name. Montana and the secondary, though all young, were just that great. And Walsh.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nate Davis must not be the next Alex Smith
Alex Smith was thrown in too early his rookie year behind a bad O-line. Why risk doing the same thing to Nate Davis?
Now, you might say, “Look at Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. They did ok their rookie year”. First, cases like that are rare. Second, they had all of training camp and preseason to prepare.
Nate Davis had almost no reps/experience. He also has that learning disability. While that may or may not affect his football play, it certainly can’t help.
Patience is needed. Crappy football teams do not become great overnight, and the 49er franchise has been so ruined these last few years.
The season is not lost yet, and Nate Davis should get some playing time ONLY once the 49ers are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
by brundylop on Nov 9, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cases like that are not rare...
Dan Marino comes to mind, Ben Roethlisberger. If Davis has the talent and the skill, he’ll be able to handle playing. It’s that simple.
Kezarvet
by kezarvet on Nov 9, 2009 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Roth, Flacco and Ryan all had great O-lines and running games
And the first two had excellent defenses and were surrounded by experienced teammates. Marino started for a team that had just gone to the Super Bowl. Nothing about those four QBs compares to what Nate Davis or any rookie QB would have around him here at this time.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you please get off the Davis bandwagon he didn’t do anything to prove that hes any better than what we have.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 9, 2009 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't really do anything...
And that’s still a better option than the two bowls of shit that the 49ers have been throwing out there.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not completely laughable to ask for Davis at this point.
Let me start by saying that I believe we should be starting Smith. We have to find out if we need to use one of our firsts next year on a qb. But I understand why people are asking for Davis. He can’t do much worse than what we’ve gotten lately w/ 4 losses. Especially if you believe neither Smith nor Hill is your long term answer, you might as well take a look at him and see if you will draft another qb next year. I don’t know if I believe that you will “ruin” a qb by letting him play in his rookie year. There are enough arguements both ways to suggest that if you can play, you can play. I honestly don’t think Ryan Leaf would have succeeded if the Colts had drafted him instead of Manning.
It’s tough for me becaue I don’t know if Davis is the answer either. I would love for the 9ers to draft 2 OL next spring if we already have our future qb. But do we pass on a potential superstar qb in the draft because we have Davis, whom we have never seen in a real game? Regardless, I think Smith gives us the best chance to win now. And if we want to make the playoffs, he is the one who can take us there.
I know I used a lot of “we” and “our” when referring to the 9ers. I just can’t help it :)
by Santee on Nov 9, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fans cry about being conservative. So, let’s give the QB of the future a chance to get his feet wet and Niner fans cry "No". You can’t play a rookie. He has to sit for a whole year to learn and not get discouraged. That is Mike Nolan-type thinking.
Actually, this is the exact opposite of Nolan-type thinking, considering that Mike Nolan started Alex Smith for several games in 2005.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Nov 9, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It worked for Montana! It must work for Davis!
It also worked for Manning, Big Ben, Ryan, and Flacco! It must work for Davis!
Did it work for Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, and David Carr? So it won’t work for Davis?
Obviously there’s a lot more to it than “Start the guy early. He’ll learn fast. It’s worked before.”
by jveezy on Nov 9, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This loss
It really just disgusted me to see us blow 10 to 17 lead going into the half. I have to say they offensively they tried there best to come out and put the dagger into Tennessee. I can’t stand to see them go a play conservative when they know they need to score to finish them off. What is this 5 losses in row now? Ouch!! This is getting old real quick this team is so young. We drop few more games like this and we need to think about grabbing a experienced QB. leader offensively.
by azNinerfan on Nov 9, 2009 7:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Playing conservative in the 2nd half might've won the game
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and lost 3
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Agree Also
I think they got the 2nd half gameplans mixed in the last two games. Thay should have played aggressively against an offensive powerhouse in the Colts, and conservatively against the Titans.
by Santee on Nov 9, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll never know that
until he plays so your opinion stated so aggressively, means squat.
Kezarvet
by kezarvet on Nov 9, 2009 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, as if we needed any more reason to not take you seriously.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a nice double standard.
I would say that, to add to this comment, your opinion about Nate Davis, stated so very aggressively over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again means exactly as much – squat.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I’ve never been a fan of Smith because he threw too many interceptions and yesterday’s game hammered in that point for me.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Nov 9, 2009 7:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t go so far as to say the fans suck, but the Niners don’t need to be hasty about pulling Smith. If the Cardinals stay healthy, the 49ers are probably not going to the playoffs this year anyway. Besides, we still have what, 8 games left in the season? This leaves the coaches and the fans plenty of time to evaluate his performance as the starting QB.
Smith has had 10 quarters of play in the last two years and we all know that good quarterbacks need time to find their groove with an offense. I think we’re actually seeing significant maturity out of Smith and I think he will find his way back to the top in the next couple of games. Dude’s got a chip on his shoulder and that’s what I think we’ll start to see out of him.
by MondayMorningMontana on Nov 9, 2009 7:56 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
and +1 for the awesome user name.
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 9, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith has had 10 quarters of play in the last two years
Well I’m glad to see somebody who has some legitimate perspective here.
However, I would change:
Dude’s got a chip on his shoulder
to
Dude’s got a chip in his shoulder
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
ouch howie
you cut deep
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta get those chips out!
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Nov 9, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great name
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Off-Topic, but while there is a main page post, I just want to say:
So Rich Gannon, go [F] yourself.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:27 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was actually more pissed at the stupid CBS announcing crew yesterday than at the actual loss. Rich Gannon was especially bad. He’s everything that’s wrong with players going into the booth after they retire. They should put Phil Simms and Rich Gannon in a broadcasting booth together just so that the massive combined gravitational suck of those two can create a black hole of suck through which all awful former-player announcers can get pulled through. never to be seen or – thank God – heard from again.
CBS gets negative infinite points for showing the Gannon beats the Niners in OT replay. Hella bush.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do we always blame QBs for turnovers?
On the first INT, Smith threw a ball to the sidelines that would (normally) be caught or be out of bounds. Unfortunately, The titans are great at the tip drill.
On the fumble/incomplete pass, Smith was hit by a DT who had free release and got a helment on the ball. What, exactly, was he supposed to do in that situation???
The 2nd pick was Alex’ fault, but it was also a great play by the DB.
The 3rd INT was the WR’s fault. He hit Morgan in the chest and the defender got there a little early - then a fluke 8 yard boune into the hands of Finnegan for a TD.
by nickbradley on Nov 9, 2009 8:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He really...
Shouldn’t have been throwing to those receivers on those plays.
All 3 INT, there was heavy coverage.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
like said above
there’s no way you are going to throw to wide open players on every play. Most players will be defended, and that’s why you need an accurate QB.
by brundylop on Nov 9, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Steve Young has stated something along those lines
That outside of a blwon coverage or double move, there are no wide open receivers in the NFL. You have to be accurate and confident to get the ball in a tight space. And it’s even more difficult inside the 10 yard line, which is why great red zone QB play is so critical.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith was very responsible for two of the turnovers and slightly responsible for the other two
On the First INT, Smith delivered the ball late. Crabtree was running a deep comeback. The ball has to get there as soon as the receiver turns around. It didn’t. Instead, Crabtree turned around and had to wait. Kudos to Crabtree for coming back to the ball and attacking it at its highest place. Unfortunately, the defender got there and tipped it away from behind. Yes, the defense made a great/lucky play (given the proximity of the sideline, it is kinda amazing that the tipped ball stayed in bounds), but this was not the fault of Crabtree of the OL. As far as the niners goes, that one was on Smith 100%.
On the Fumble, the OL got beat pretty badly. That said, Smith could/should have sensed the pressure and stepped up in the pocket and/or got rid of the ball more quickly. I think that this one is 90% OL, and 10% Smith.
The 2nd INT, Smith stared down the receiver and threw into double coverage. 100% Smith.
On the last INT, Morgan was covered closely on a short comeback. You can argue that the ball should not have gone there given the coverage. However, this is the NFL and you have to throw into tight coverage. I also think that Peyton Manning would have delivered that ball a foot off the ground so that his guy could dive on the ground for it, but the DB would not have a chance at it. The DB was all over Morgan, but I also think that Morgan could have come back and attacked the ball more. I put this one 15% on Smith and 60% on Morgan and 25% on the ref for not calling illegal contact/pass interference.
by kiyoshi on Nov 9, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what is lost in all of this
Damn you 49ers! They are like my favorite whore, they play good enough to keep you interested and just screw you in the end.
At the start of the season i thought 9-7, or 10-6 with the possibility of a division title would have been a successful season, and I think it still can be. Point is, the niners aren’t going to with the superbowl this year…it is next season that i think they make the turn.
You have to start Smith at this point, yes he had 4 TO, but given our “Offensive Line” he can at least avoid some of the rush, and maybe if the line was decent he could actually hit receivers.
The guy is only 25 and maybe he can have a good career, but if he fails to impress in the rest of the games, it won’t be with the 49ers.
Keep him in there, if he sucks…oh well we are back to where all of us thought we were, if he can have some success, grab some oline and a safety in the draft, open the offense a bit more and see where he can take us..
by jvosh on Nov 9, 2009 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
well said Fooch
we need to have patience with this guy – he’s just getting back into the groove. And now he has a half a season to show what he’s made of. Smith made some bad throws yesterday and it cost the Niners the game. He still needs to improve his timing and accuracy. And he needs to get better at not telegraphing his passes. You would hope someone who’s been in the league as long as Smith has would have figured some of that out by now. Hopefully he’ll be able to in the next 8 weeks.
Like Fooch said, Smith gives us the best chance to win. There’s no reason to think Davis has a bigger upside and he certainly wouldn’t be better right now. Smith has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and play for the rest of the season. After the next 8 game we’ll know if he’s a legitimate starter or if it’s time to move on.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 9, 2009 8:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Smith
only gives the other team their best chance to win. He is 0-7 in his last seven starts.
Kezarvet
by kezarvet on Nov 9, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HE’S A LOOSER
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You need to stop. Seriously.
Using W-L as any sort of measure of a quarterback’s skill is flat out stupid.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BUT HE’S A LOOSER
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
totally
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not tight enough.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
QUICK SOMEONE GET ME AN ALLEN (ALEX?) WRENCH!
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I had a girlfriend in college
Who was looser than Paris Hilton on ecstasy!
The future ain't what it used to be.
by riderless on Nov 9, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But...
4 turnovers and a fumble that was almost as bad as a turnover gave the 49ers the loss.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
…because we know what we have in Hill (extremely competent backup) and Nate can’t possibly be ready.
by Bigmouth on Nov 9, 2009 8:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yup. I don’t think that anybody is saying “Play Smith because he’s definitely good!”
It’s "Play Smith because – of the guys who we have right now – he’s the only unknown commodity who could possibly turn into a serviceable player by playing right now. Hill is what he is. Davis isn’t ready. Smith has shown us some very good things and some fairly poor things in limited time this season. We NEED to find out which side of that coin is the real Alex Smith, unless you want to look forward to another offseason where we tip-toe around the QB position and end up doing nothing meaningful because we don’t know anything about the guys we already have.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true and thats what they are going to do.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 9, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Concede
We are just victims of our own indecision. 5 Offensive coordinators. 3 Head coaches since mooch. 6-8 at best. losers. building? If I hear that one more time I am gonna puke.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 8:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i've heard that about every team in the bay area BUT the sharks, and i'm so sick of "rebuilding" or "building"
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but when you’re a losing team you really can’t do anything else. I’m sick and tired of building of rebuilding, but I’d be clinically plague-ridden if I heard that the Niners or the Giants or the Warriors or whatever decided that it was suddenly time to stop doing either of those things before they actually start winning.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, i understand, and i think i’m getting selfish when i say or hell, “we” say that we want the team to start winning. After being here at school, i’m surrounded by Steeler fans, and they just kick you when you’re down and talk shit on the niners and all that. But hey, it’s all a part of being a fan right? Niners haven’t been winning consistently since the beginning of this decade and the warriors? i’m just disappointed, the giants? likewise, just disappointed, i just don’t even know what to think now, i’ll still be a fan always, but my patience is being tested all the time with the warriors losing, the niners being inconsistent, and the giants always rebuilding
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winners win
When I was watching Patrick Willis and VD working there tails off yesterday. I felt bad. Alex Smith was smug on the post game. I was left saying, Why can’t we get a QB and maybe it’s because the stigma of the Montana and Young plaques on the wall in the locker room. Screw the plaques and the past if you cannot emulate greatness you don’t have it. Get off the field. the NFL is about winning, not sorta not kinda………..WINNING. NOT “WORKING ON IT” WINNING.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see what that has to do with anything I said. This team has major problems. We have to build a winner. You can’t just BE a winner. If you’re bad, you have to build or rebuild. It doesn’t matter how tired you are of trying.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. hopefully we will put a complete game together soon.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*ahem*
Howie, please, you know this from following the Giants. Some people are just winners, and some people, like Matt Cain and Alex Smith just don’t know how to win, and until they learn, they can’t be winners.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t just BE a winner.
Gotta disagree with you here – some people have willed their way to awesome. See: Affleck, Ben
by MondayMorningMontana on Nov 9, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
I might just have to ban you for that comment.
by Fooch on Nov 9, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
I meant to write
See: Pratt, Spencer
by MondayMorningMontana on Nov 9, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup he has 8 games left to prove himself
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 9, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Get ready to lose
He’s a loser. Watch the game again yesterday. He looked as bad as JT o sullivan. Let’s get Garcia
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sticking with Smith too
I think we have to choose whose going to finish out this season. I can’t go back to Hill and the run on 1st down, run on 2nd down, 3rd and long incomplete pass, 4th down punt. No… I can’t do it.
I think everybody knows even Singletary, that Smith can play. He appeared to be a little out of his comfort zone. I find it ironic or hypocritical (I can’t figure it out) that the fans begged Singletary and Raye for more passing calls and less running plays and it seemed like we did pass a lot more and then now the same people are complaining about too many pass calls.
Personally I like the ground and pound game with Smith in there who can make the 3rd down throws, unlike Hill who failed repeatedly.
Still, Smith needs to make better decisions out there and needs to be accountable for the bad decisions that he makes. He needs to stop staring down receivers and not get out of his game. He also needs to stop throwing passes so high. This is definitely true. Part of being a good football player or really anything in life is to recognize the mistakes you made and clearly identify them and then go out there and correct them. It’s called growth and Smith still has to grow.
Some of the blame has to go around. I look around the league and see the great QBs and when the make the great plays it seems like they have all day to throw. We expect the same from Smith, but get all pissed off when he doesn’t come through, even though he has less time than the great QBs of the league to actually make the right decision. WRs need to realize that if they aren’t going to catch the ball they need to make sure that the other team doesn’t. Our WRs need to realize that if a ball is thrown short they need to come to the ball and not let the DB or safety run in front of them. This is fundamental football.
Smith is the man. He will come through and I have confidence in him.
by brewitt on Nov 9, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why so little love for Shaun Hill?
All he did was lead the team to a 3-1 record.
I am totally against Alex Smith starting… Here’s why:
It’s the same thing all over again (we’re at round 17 I think)…
Alex can make some great throws –
If he could just not make so many mistakes!
If he could just step up in the pocket!
If he could just get better protection!
Then, only then, will we see what we got..
Well, hate to break it to you, but this is it. We don’t need to “see what we’ve got”. This is it.
This team is built to win now. We are absolutely NOT the TB bucs, shuffling QB’s to see who to build on.
This is a playoff caliber team, we shouldn’t waste it on ANOTHER ALEX SMITH FACT-FINDING MISSION.
When we lost that heart-breaking game at Minnesota, the silver-lining for me was that THE VIKINGS BEAT US. We forced them to make a play to win the game, and they did. That happens. We did not hand them the game. I don’t care about any of the excuses – Alex Smith handed the Titans the game. We killed ourselves.
I’ll take boring no-stats (except winning) Shaun Hill over Smith any day.
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 9:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
...you mean a 3-3 record?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for starts
oh, and
WINS ARE NOT A $%&@)(&% QB STAT
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*head asplode*
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did your head just asplode 423,827 times?
Yes. Very yes.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our offense can actually score pts now. We can move down the field!!!!!
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Nov 9, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry... :)
Meet you half way at 3-2.
My point is, people are treating Shaun Hill as a known commodity. Everybody thinks he reached the apex of his talent – What you see is what you get. And yet Alex Smith is always just one excuse away of being great. Well, the mistakes are part of his game. They just are.
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s because Shaun Hill is a known commodity and Alex Smith is a bit of an unknown. There’s no mystery there. There’s no excuses. When we have enough games to prove that Alex Smith is legitimately terrible (or at least legitimately not worth starting), I’ll be ON that damn ship pulling the horn telling every other ship on the bay to get out of my freaking way. Until then, I’ll stick around the harbor, making sure these ships don’t have giant rusty holes in the hull before I get aboard.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But when will we get to that point?
If he loses next week? The week after that? (Won’t the OL be responsible for that?)
What about next year? He will be a year removed from major surgery – therefore FINALLY 100% comfortable and ready to become great (aka the Manny Lawson treatment).
Players are what they are. We can’t keep projecting our fantasies onto Them. He is what he is – which is a mistake prone QB.
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This year is his last hurrah. If he hasn’t proven anything by the time the last snap is played on the last day of the season, then we should all be done with him. All of the most militant Smith boosters. All of the wishy-washy middle-grounders. Everybody. This season is his last chance. Not one game. Not a handful of halves. For lack of a better option, play out the season and then pass judgment.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This team is built to win now.
Please, explain.
This is a playoff caliber team.
This is a team that hasn’t won more than 7 games since 2002. Last time I checked, you have to win more than half of your games (well… most of the time) to be a playoff caliber team.
Until the team actually wins 8 or more games, we really need to put this playoff rap to rest.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion..
This team has lots of talent on offense and defense. We may not be perfect, we may have holes but this team can compete (and we’ve already seen that this season.).
The Nolan-esque thought – let’s throw this season away for the sole purpose of evaluating Alex Smith – is ridiculous.
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Nolan-esque thought – let’s throw this season away for the sole purpose of evaluating Alex Smith – is ridiculous.
And there’s the fallacy: Seriously, we don’t have many other options. than evaluating Smith. Do you start Hill and concede the fact that the offense will be a one-dimensional, three-and-out machine? Do you start Davis and concede the season even more definitively than you ever would by starting Smith? Do you go out and sign Damon Huard (he is still available, right?) and just hope that he doesn’t suck as much as his career as a backup suggests that he should?
WHAT do you do? WHAT? Tell me WHAT you do other than start Smith. Tell me. Tell me. I want to know. Give me a way to start any other quarterback than Smith and NOT end up with a losing record this season. Because Hill and Davis are not better options. Tell. Me. If you tell me one legitimately good way to improve our position at quarterback RIGHT NOW – one legitimately good way to add ONE PIECE at quarterback RIGHT NOW that will improve this team enough to take them to the playoffs THIS YEAR – I will turn away from computer screen and go run naked down 4949 Centennial Blvd RIGHT NOW screaming that 1849 is right and that the 49ers need to do whatever it is you’re about to suggest.
If you can’t do that, then all this talk about conceding the season by playing somebody other than Smith is worthless. You better have something in mind? Otherwise, look hard at the team as constructed and accept that Smith is the guy THIS SEASON and maybe we’re not actually built to win RIGHT NOW.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Should read:
If you can’t do that, then all this talk about NOT conceding the season by playing somebody other than Smith is worthless.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we are not built to win right now
We have alot of problems AT QB. Take care of that and we will start winning.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And how do you “take care of that” RIGHT NOW? People are acting like we actually have a BETTER CHOICE – RIGHT NOW. We don’t. Show it to me. If it’s there, show it to me. I will be more than happy to take it. I will take it and I will cherish it and I will feed it and walk it and love it and make sure that it’s always properly groomed. I won’t even neuter it, because I’ll WANT it to breed more things that we can do RIGHT NOW.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+++++12310348018301293869391703981
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 9, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no better choice, it is what it is, you have to work with what you have. But whatever, look, i’m done being pissed off with this team, i hate expecting too much out of them, and that’s my fault actually. What i saw yesterday was 4 turnovers to 0, that’s basically it, and you don’t win when you have 4 turnovers converted for 24 points, you put your defense in a jam
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We don’t have a choice. Just keep expecting to win and things will fall into place I guess. We need to do a lot of study on the next opponent.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, so you’re saying game planning for the coaches
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
pick apart the weaknesses like they do to us with the last four losses.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what good coaching does, when you game plan well, the next thing to do is execute
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yep. play 4 quarters too. cause it helps
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s all the niners really need to do, FINISH and EXECUTE and PREPARE
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They gotta grow up
Unlike past years, they’re not getting blown out or looking unprepared. They’ve led in the 4th quarter in 3 of 5 losses. Four of the five have been by less than once score. I know some people get tired of Sing saying “finish” but that’s what they’re not doing. They have had the opportunity and do not finish, both the QB and the defense.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We gotta start before we can finish.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For sure
And it has to really piss off the players that they’d have the lead going into the 4th and just screw it up and not finish.
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The frustrating thing is
They were built to win this way. Have the lead late, play defense, punt with Lee and wear down the other team so Gore could get yards late. None of this happens. Granted, no Gore in Minnesota which might have made the difference. But the Indy game and yesterday especially are how they were built to win. And they’re not doing it.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
5 quarters
We need an extra quarter to undo the mistakes. :)
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would start Hill.
It worked well enough to win last season. It can continue to work this season.
And yes, bring back the 3-and-out machine. At least it’s not killing us, and it gives us a chance to win. I’ll take 6 3-and-outs over 4 turnovers.
by 1849 on Nov 9, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hill did well last year
because teams didn’t prepare for him.
You saw how bad it was this year once people started game planning for him. His weak arm range really makes it hard to move the chains once the defense takes away the short checkdowns.
by brundylop on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
VICK!!!
THA NINERZ NEED TO SIGN VICK HE WOULD TAKE THA NINERZ TO THA SUPR BOWL AND WIN THE MVP
1 LOLZ!!!!
Sorry…somebody had to do it.
by Haggardninja on Nov 9, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“This team is built to win now.”
I’ll explain for him.
Vernon Davis is good now.
Michael Crabtree is good now.
Frank Gore is good now.
If we keep waiting to build that perfect team, by the time we get the right players to play around those 3 guys, they possibly a) won’t be good anymore b) will be injured c) will be old or d) will be gone.
If they do not win now, then they will not win next season. Will not win 2 seasons from now.
They just won’t win.
Essentially what the 49ers have is what we’re gonna get for the next few seasons.
Random signings and draftpicks aren’t going to fix the problem, but will only possibly plug a hole, only for a new hole to open up somewhere else. Such is the case with hopelessly bad teams everywhere.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
VD and MC are young
They have some bright years ahead.
Gore, alas, might be getting older.
by brundylop on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeh..
But we don’t know what the future holds with them.
The organization has to find good players to play around them while we know they are good.
It’s like the same argument for the Giants to get players to play around their core of Cain, Lincecum and Sandoval.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How does this explain how we are built to win now. All this says it that we need to win now not that we are built to. The OL was bad before the string of injuries they gave had. That is the main problem. Three players do not make a playoff team there has to be pieces around them to utilize their strengths and we just do not have those pieces.
I want me some Buster
by gbears16 on Nov 9, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“How does this explain how we are built to win now. All this says it that we need to win now not that we are built to.”
You are correct. I should have pointed that out.
“The OL was bad before the string of injuries they gave had.”
I agree. I was disappointed that this was not dealt with in the offseason.
Gives me even more reason to believe that the organization doesn’t know what they’re doing.
“That is the main problem. Three players do not make a playoff team there has to be pieces around them to utilize their strengths and we just do not have those pieces.”
Exactly. And my point was that if they wait too long, they’re just gonna be plugging holes only for new holes to open up.
What a good organization does is.. Once they notice it ain’t gonna work out with some of their players, they do everything in their power to find upgrades as promptly as possible.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 9, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why ...
so little love for Shaun Hill. Bloggers here love to recite what they hear from TV pundits and color men, They simply repeat the mantra “weak arm” “stack the box.” We must remember that much interest in being a football fan is homo-erotic. It’s not simply that Hill was undrafted and sat on bench for five years. It’s that the bloggers here are not in love with his body type. These guys who love to ridicule Hill refuse to see what he did last year against Arizona there and this year against the Vikings there. They refuse to acknowledge that the “weak arm” argument was the most regular criticism of Joe Montana. They refuse to admit who has won games for the Niners in the last two years. And yes, the anti Hill posters here refuse to admit that he is acually quicker than Smith in scramblilng.
by Aristophanes on Nov 10, 2009 6:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, TV Pundits and Color Men loooooove the way that Shaun Hill guts it out and wins games.
And Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaase do NOT bring in the “Joe Montana had a weak arm” argument. That’s a ludicrous comparison. Maybe Montana couldn’t throw the ball 80 yards on a dime, but he had plenty of arm to stretch the field horizontally without doubling that distance on the throw vertically.
Which brings me to another point. Does the phrase “vertical passing game” bother anybody else? It’s horizontal. In fact, most of the time, the more vertical a pass is, the more likely it’s going to get picked. Harrumph.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's Get Vertical
You have a point, but I think “vertical” is shorthand for throwing deep passes toward the goal line, as opposed to short passes toward the sidelines. Imagine the football field as a map with the endzone north. North isn’t the same as up, but people use them interchangeably.
by silverjay on Nov 10, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if it were up to me
I’d keep Smith in the rest of the season (he played well in Houston, was relatively mistake-free in Indy, and had only 1 INT yesterday that was truly his fault…all QBs with live arms will throw em from time to time) AND let him come into camp as the starting QB next season. Let Davis be the #2, taking all the 2nd team reps instead of the 3rd team snaps, but unless Alex has a horrible TC, let him be the starter going into the season. After 4 games, if he’s not at least 3-1, hand over the keys to Davis. That way, we will have 12 games to determine if we need to invest a 2011 1st rd pick in a QB.
Of course, this all rides on the fact that Jimmy Raye stays on as OC, so theres continuity for both Smith and Davis in the offseason.
by Rep the Bay on Nov 9, 2009 9:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It has to be Smith
I realize that we are all frustrated with the results. Alex Smith is 0-2 as a starter (this season of course) and a lot of people want to pull the plug on him as he can’t seem to get things right when they matter most. Although its not working out like we had hoped I must say I feel he gives us a better chance to win. His athletic ability and ability to move in the pocket giver our offense a chance to make some plays. As far as Nate Davis is concerned, I don’t think its wise to just throw him into this situation.. We are not really in that bad of a spot, there is a lot of season left, we have a softer schedule the second half of the season (in my opinion) we take away the turnovers and go out and play four solid quarters of football and we could easily win the rest of our games. The offense is moving the ball, take the turnovers away and we will be fine. Stay positive Niner Nation I am, coulda woulda shoulda against the Titans, times to focus on the bears. I like the match up!! GO NINERS!!!
by Kamota on Nov 9, 2009 9:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Just because Davis has a cannon arm does not mean he should be the starter
Inserting a 5th round rookie QB who played college in a spread offense is not the solution to the niners problems. I know a lot of people are enamored by his tremendous physical skills, but the niners are still a playoff contending team, and Davis gives the niners almost no chance of making the playoffs
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 9, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The round should have nothing to do with your potential or how good you are. Fact is, all we’ve seen him play in was preseason games in the second half or in that last game in the second quarter or whatever. But it’s not worth getting all worried and putting him in, it’s pulling the trigger too soon, but who knows how he will perform, nobody can judge that
by PiKAgiant on Nov 9, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
History indicates how well he’ll play. Fact of the matter is, rookie QB’s rarely perform adequately, even the highly drafted ones. I know people have been swayed about this fact recently due to the successes of Flacco, Ryan (and to a certain extent Sanchez) but Davis simply is not as good as those QB’s. Physically he can match up with them, but he is not nearly as refined as many of them, and has to come into a pretty weak offense. Whereas Davis played exclusively in the spread in college, Ryan played in a very pro style offense at BC. Davis has to play behind a very poor offense, Ryan played behind an excellent line. I don’t know much about Flacco’s college career, but he came into a situation in the NFL where he wasn’t expected to do much.
At the end of the day, highly touted rookie QBs rarely come into the league and lead their team into the playoffs, let alone 5th rounders
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 9, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for your avatar
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's To Blame, Eight Losing Seasons In A Row
Neither Smith or Hill are acceptable options..Both have proven that they are not and NEVER will be winning QB’s in the NFL..
The blame for this mess lies directly with McCloughan and the Yorks who have no clue what the hell is needed to put together a winning organization..
There is not enough talent on this team to go anywhere..
Hill and Smith are both terrible and there is no end in site to this mess..
Sure play Smith for the rest of the year and just keep losing..0-7 his last seven starts and many more coming..
by The Sear on Nov 9, 2009 10:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
HE’S A LOOSER!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WE NEED A WINNAR
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well written Fooch
And I agree. If anyone thinks the season is now a lost cause, then Smith most certainly should be the starter for two reasons: find out how good he can be, and by throwing the ball more we allow Crabtree and the other WRs to develop (and VD to continue developing). Win or lose it’s best to know what these guys can do by providing them with meaningful reps. If Alex ends up being the QB next season, the playing time with these guys will be invaluable.
If anyone never thought this team was good enough to make the playoffs anyway, then Smith and other young players should get as much PT as possible to continue their development. We must find out what we’ve got and give the keepers more opportunities to mature. This is not a talentless team but it’s important to identify who is the future and who needs replacing.
Lastly, if you still think the team can finish by winning 7/8 or 6/8 and have a winning record, certainly there is an argument to be had over Hill vs Smith. I come down on the side of Smith, since he has shown he gives the offense more options and certainly has more upside (that I admit may never show itself, but it certainly won’t on the bench). It would help to give Smith more of a Hill-like game plan and not expect him to carry the offense like Brady or Brees when he’s starting his first games in two seasons. And playing with a rookie WR that had no training camp.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree, too, but for a different reason.
I’ve been convinced Smith is a bust for several years based on his inability to throw accurately at key times, his tendency to throw late on timing passes, and his inability to make good decisions under pressure. But unfortunately, Smith has a great fan in the front office by the name of McCloughan who is determined to prove Smith wasn’t a blot on his career as a personnel guy. Remember the news article a few weeks ago that said McClo and others were “terrified” they would release Smith and have him turn into a great QB somewhere else? Does that strike anyone else as a perfect example of a “CYA” decision? McClo is more interested in proving he didn’t make a mistake than insuring the 49ers have a good QB. And that is just plain dumb. Everyone makes mistakes, including me, you, Scot McCloughan, and the guy parking cars. Making mistakes comes with taking risks, and drafting football players is a pretty risky business. Making a mistake doesn’t become a real problem until the person refuses to admit the mistake, correct the situation as best as possible, and then move on. Just like with investing and many other situations in life, cutting one’s losses and moving on is fundamentally important.
But some people are stubborn, so I want Alex Smith to start the remainder of the season so everyone, including the Smith fanboys and Scot McCloughan, can see once and for all that Smith is not starting NFL QB material. The 9ers’ chances of making the playoffs are approaching lottery ticket levels, and S. Hill is not the long-term answer, so the price of his failure is minimal and will put the question to rest once and for all. I’m sure others here expect to see him do well, but I suspect they’re hoping for a miracle that will never happen. But the team needs to settle this issue now, this year, if it expects to ever be successful in the future.
And Nate Davis should be given an opportunity to succeed in controlled situations where he has a good chance to make plays and build his confidence – just like Walsh did with Montana. He’s not anywhere near ready to be an NFL starter.
by MontanaPass on Nov 9, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The draft is a crapshoot
With Smith, the 9ers appear to have rolled snake eyes. Does that mean they should’ve passed the dice? Not necessarily. But let’s acknowledge that drafting a QB #1 is a big gamble. Some pay off, some don’t; Smith is hardly the first example of the latter.
by silverjay on Nov 9, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But nobody wants to admit the mistake.
The important thing is to recognize and admit mistakes, correct them as best as possible, and then move on. The 49ers are in their 5th year of the Alex Smith experiment with very little in the way of positive results. At this rate, Smith will have a 10-year NFL career and a pension before McCloughan gives up on him.
by MontanaPass on Nov 9, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I want Alex Smith to start the remainder of the season so everyone, including the Smith fanboys and Scot McCloughan, can see once and for all that Smith is not starting NFL QB material.
In some ways, this is more valid reasoning than a lot of people on both sides of the coin are willing to put the effort into making.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is sort of begging the question though.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 9, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice use of the phrase. Rarely does it get used in the original sense these days.
And yes, I agree.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not A Playoff Team & Might Never Be One With The Yorks
You fans who think this team has enough talent to make the playoffs are completely delusionsional..We have no QB, a horrible offensive line, not a consistant pass rush, no kick returner, and a history of losing..
Come on fans be realistic here and realize that the Yorks still own and run this franchise..
by The Sear on Nov 9, 2009 10:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wish We Could Poll The Players
I would love to know what the players think and who they would choose for starting QB..I wonder if they might pick Davis..They have done so much losing with Smith and some winning with Hill, but they know Hill’s limitations and they know what Smith will do to lose the game in crunch time..
It would be fascinating to know..
by The Sear on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
From what I read
many gus came over to support Alex in the locker room yesterday. I’d imagine if you polled the defensive players, they’d tell you that the Minnesota loss and yesterday falls completely on their shoulders, and that they are just as responsible as either QB for the other losses.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure that Vernon Davis played a role in convincing Singletary to make the switch to Alex Smith. I don’t have a link for that, but I remember hearing it.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Call me Crazy...
But the fact is that he’s our best option at QB at this point, and we need to find out whether or not he’s gonna be a solid QB. In my humble opinion I would rather lose games “trying” to be aggressive as opposed to not moving the ball at all (as was the case with Hill).
by Jayhov on Nov 9, 2009 10:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You might be Crazy, but you’re also right.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo
The mngmt put the players on the field and we have to find out if they are gonna man up to the challenge. You gotta win with whatcha got. “no If we had……”mentalility. Alex did opt to stay with us. I think we should ride it out.
by zonedogs on Nov 9, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Egads
You gotta win with whatcha got.
Is that you Rummy?
The future ain't what it used to be.
by riderless on Nov 9, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But what about the "unknown unknowns"?
Are there any “unknown unknowns” left on the 49ers? Or is that unknown, too? Or should we just go with the unknowns we have instead of the unknowable unknown unknowns that may be lurking in the weeds? I just don’t know any more and I think I’m getting a headache.
by MontanaPass on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You gotta win with whatcha got.
Weren’t those lyrics to a George Thorogood song?
by MondayMorningMontana on Nov 9, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis needs until the middle of next season before he should start
Anything sooner and you increase the probability of another failure at QB.
Truth has a well-known liberal bias.
by dianemarie on Nov 9, 2009 10:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy Raye isn't off the hook yet
Alex Smith is always most impressive during his two-minute drills. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that the 49er’s drive in the final two minutes of the first half (which led to a touchdown) was only one of two drives that Raye had Smith lined up in the shotgun for the majority of the snaps (eight of nine).
Can you guess what the only other shotgun-focused drive was? Yep- the two-minute drill of the second half (which also led to a touchdown). In fact, Raye lined Smith up in the shotgun for every play of this drive and the result was moving the offense 77 yards down the field for a quick 2:12 touchdown.
Is anyone else noticing a trend here?
by Chimneyfish on Nov 9, 2009 11:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You can't run out of the shotgun
not effectively anyway. The shotgun is good for giving your QB extra protection when your O-line is struggling, but it’s a one dimensional formation.
by smileyman on Nov 9, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and you can’t pass under center when you have an O-line like the Niners.
I’d be more receptive of criticism for the shotgun formation if Sunday’s numbers didn’t show such a clear correlation between the use of the shotgun and drives that resulted in touchdowns.
by Chimneyfish on Nov 9, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you could have the RB right next to the QB and then run draw plays all day when your’e not passing?
by brewitt on Nov 9, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not? Clearly Gore isn’t getting much run blocking support anyway.
by Chimneyfish on Nov 9, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on. Abandon the run? Gore is the best player on the team.
by brewitt on Nov 9, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t mean abandon the run. I meant that the 49ers have the worst run-blocking O-line in the NFL. Considering that the team has done such a poor job blocking eight defenders in the box, a more successful strategy for running may be to draw the defensive backs down the field.
Not to be come off as too much of a Football Outsiders mark here, but as FO has so eloquently proven; “You run when you win, not win when you run.”
by Chimneyfish on Nov 9, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah we have abandoned the run for 2 weeks in a row and guess what?
No wins
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 10, 2009 2:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It can’t be made any clearer. The man is a spread offense quarterback. Somebody needs to convince the coaching staff that if you need history to repeat itself to get anywhere, then so be it. Bring back the run and shoot! :)
by Mangoman1 on Nov 9, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or start Hill again, make less mistakes but never really move the ball, and never really show that Smith was worth anything.
by Mangoman1 on Nov 9, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's simple considering what we've got:
We’re nothing more than an 8-8 team considering what we have:
We have no decent OLine to seriously give any QB a fighting chance. Even if we get to the Post season, we’ll lose.
We have average QB’s, and a rookie superstar.
We have two first round picks in 2010.
Here’s what we do: run Smith into the ground, keep Hill as a solid back up, groom Davis. If Smith can’t get us to .500, or if he keeps throwing beautiful passes to the other team (tipped balls are a sign of a QB with god awful timing), then cut bait.
DRAFT OFFENSIVE LINERS.
We have some serious offensive weapons, from hill to morgan to crabtree to gore to davis, we’re amazing. A solid O-Line would make even Smith effective given those weapons.
That’s it. We’d have done it this year, but crapfee fell in our laps. Next year, OLine. We have a championship caliber defense and a great offense, a weak oline and no star QB. However, we do have decent QB’s.
Go OL in the draft, and we’ve got a 12-4 team.
by bsai on Nov 9, 2009 12:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good thinking.
The team needs a good RT who can pass protect and an OG to replace Baas, who will likely be gone next year. And a developmental LT prospect who can do backup duty (although B. Sims played well there the last two games).
But there are other needs, too – a NT to replace Franklin(FA next year), another TE good enough to sub for Walker/Davis, a top-tier FS, and a developmental CB. And once Smith fails and is released next year, the 9ers will be in the market for another QB, too.
by MontanaPass on Nov 9, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but we need two CB's laying in wait
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 10, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Reading through a bunch of these posts, this one stands out for me. I’ve been convinced over the years that offensive line gives the highest value per dollar and influences more of the game than any other part of the team. A good o-line makes mediocre QB’s & RB’s look good, gives time for mediocre WR’s to get open, and just as importantly, gives a mediocre defense time to rest. Conversely, Tom Brady can’t throw without time and Adrian Peterson can’t run without a few holes.
Like you say if we can shore up the O-line, any QB will hold us over, until we get lucky finding a a franchise QB in the 6th round.
Agreed that the tipped balls are not just bad luck, it’s a sign that Smith is late and high with his throws.
One more thing we need to add is a couple speedsters on both sides of the ball. Don’t need superstars, just guys fast enough to keep people honest. It’s sad watching Roddy White and others absolutely leave our corners in the dust, while our receivers routinely get caught from behind.
by monophonik on Nov 10, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ben Roethlesberger is a shining example of what somebody can do with an absolute NAILS offensive line. Not only does he get all time to throw almost every time he drops back, he routinely waits until long AFTER his incredible protection has broken down to throw the ball. Man, that guy holds onto the ball forever.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2009 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stay the Course
I agreed when Singletary chose Hill, disagreed when he switched to Smith. But backtracking now (or inserting Davis) will only compound the mistake. Vacillating between quarterbacks is a proven recipe for continued losing, now and in the future. (cf. Browns, Cleveland.) Offensive success demands continuity.
Maybe if Smith and his receivers had had more time to develop rapport, some of those turnovers yesterday would’ve been completed passes. I say that without confidence, knowing Smith’s history. But I can say confidently that another quarterback change will not help. Until there is a clearly better option, keep Smith at the helm.
by silverjay on Nov 9, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Stay the course
Sounds like the old Dana Carvey George Bush SNL skits. “Stay the course…Thousand points of light…Not gonna do it.”
by Fooch on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but...
Continuity is important in football. In foreign policy, it’s better to acknowledge mistakes and move on.
by silverjay on Nov 9, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nate Davis is stupid
skills will not make up for that. I look at franchise QB’s in the NFL and they have two things that make them good or great. Intellect and Skills. Typically if one of those two very important elements are missing, it’s a loss.
On 49ers.com (the Niners official website), Michael Robinson does what’s called “The Robinson Report” where he interviews certain players and sometimes coaches. If you go to the website to watch, you will be astonished at just how stupid Nate Davis truly is. The most recent interview involved Coach Singletary and and players knowledge of the coach. Very few of them surprisingly knew that much about their head coach and his career. But when Nate Davis was approached by Robinson. Robinson asked Davis these two questions and the responses went like this:
Robinson: “How many years did Coach play in the NFL”
Davis: “Uhhh 6 years…”
Robinson paused at the thought of the ridiculous guess by Davis but forged on to the next question anyhow.
Robinson: “How many ProBowls did Coach Sing go to?”
Davis “Uhhh….10 years”
The look on Robinsons face upon this response spoke words that hhe didn’t physically have to say…. “What a retard” is what I read on Robinsons face…I’ll let you be the judge.
http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Robinson-Report-Know-Your-Coach/08ee4d8a-3ba0-4136-937d-93e5274b5c73
I happen to agree with Robinson’s look. Nate Davis’ skills don’t mean anything if he cannot count. There’s a certain amount of intellect aa QB needs to have and Davis does not have it. So get over all this “Nate the Great” garbage….cause thats what it is….garbage.
by Drew K on Nov 9, 2009 8:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Watch the video again. Translate what Robinson says after the 3rd question.

by bignerd on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The one where Josh Morgan
gave poor little Drool-Bucket Davis the answer cause he felt bad for the kid? …That one right? Arrest my case. Do you really want me to translate it? You may find it “offensive” again…Oh…whoops… the nickname probably offended you huh? …I like it (DBD fitting and has a nice ring to it)
Is that palm tree a shrine to Nate Davis in his hometown? Kinda looks like him a bit. LOL
by Drew K on Nov 9, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Dude
The part after Nate Davis successfully answers 10 to the number of Pro Bowl appearances by Mike Singletary, than successfully answers 2 to the number of Defensive Player of the Years awards . . . Robinson catches the guy helping Davis off camera and tells him to stop feeding him the answers.
The only drool bucket appears to be you. It’s not that Davis thought Singletary could squeeze in 10 Pro Bowls in 6 seasons . . . he was given the answers after the initial question.
by bignerd on Nov 10, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
:LOL
I didn’t wanna say it but I seen that a couple days ago, hilarious
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 10, 2009 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know right...
he’s a real genious. I can’t beleive some of the people that are calling for this guy. Can you imagine the press conferences? Whoa! …Niners fans across the world would be made fun of for supporting this idiot
by Drew K on Nov 10, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
49er fans are on crack !!
Shaun Hill broke the all time NFL record for most completions in his first starting game, and he won most of his games with a crappy offensive line. Alex Smith fumpled the ball, threw tons of interceptions, and made tons of bad decisions, and you still pull for the over rated college star who had one of the best offensive lines in college to relax behind. Shaun Hill knows the game speed,and makes cat like instinctual plays.
by KORY SHEETS WAS OUR FUTURE on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Smith's lost fumble
Was no different than Hill’s in AZ.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Nov 9, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hills fumbles just weren't loss, simply because he doesn't move in the pocket
The LOL-lineman are always looking back at him and see him fumble, oh heck put him back in!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
by rlott#42 on Nov 10, 2009 2:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s actually talking about his fumple. Let’s not confuse the issue here.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2009 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
X-POST!!!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2009 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hill vs Smith
OK, I’m really tired of this. Let’s pretend we can look at things objectivly using facts as the basis for our opinions. Fooch… win- loss can be more strongly related to the QB than you’re saying. We all know what that means…it does not support your opinion to keep Smith as our starter. Why would someone actually say Smith has greater phisycal attributes that help him to be a better QB? This is a toss up. The label “game manager” tagged on Hill is given to him because the play calling with these two playing has been considerably different. This is not a product of Hill or Smith. The 9ers offence and play calling was far more predictable when Hill has played. Not his fault ! Let’s look at a little history and come to grips with what really seperate the QBs.. Win – Loss record…I won’t beat a dead horse. Offensive line play…It has improved as our play-calling has become more diversified and less predictable…when Smith was playing. Now a look at a fundamental problem Smith has always demonstrated, and continues too…HE STARES DOWN HIS RECEIVERS !!!! DBs play his eyes and intercept him. Smith does NOT read defences quickly or well and makes mistakes because of it. He always has. Smith is a great timing QB, and if the primary receiver can get open, Smith can excel at hitting him. The problem is he isn’t so great at his defensive reads or adjusting accordingly. In other words, he has never had and will never get the mental adjustment speed neccessary to win in the NFL.. We know this because we have had ample oppertunity to study him in the past….if we took the time to do it. Hill HAS shown the ability to check off his receivers and adjust. He is FAR less prone to throwing interceptions because of this…it’s much harder for DBs to read his eyes and get a jump on his passes. This becomes more pronounced when in obvious passing situations. Bottom line here is Smith has had enough opportunity to remind us why the 9ers don’t win when he is our QB..Hill on the other hand, has had a much more difficult set of circumstances to play under and has done a far better job when these are considered. Why throw away the rest of our season when the answer to your questions about Smith have allready been answered repeatedly? To me, it’s Hill who has not been given the proper opportunities to answer these questions. He may look a bit awkward and unconventional, but he has shown the mental speed and poise required to win. With what we have to choose from now, Hill is the obvious choice.
Nine mile skid, on a ten mile ride ... Hot as a pistol but cool inside
by Shad929 on Nov 10, 2009 5:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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