Battle between SF and South Bay over 49ers stadium heats up
The City of San Francisco had long planned to have a new 49ers Stadium at the heart of its proposed redevelopment of the old Hunters Point neighborhood and shipyards. Those plans were thrown into chaos when it was revealed that the 49ers organization had opened negotiations with Santa Clara to build a new stadium in the South Bay. Over the past couple of days, the Santa Clara deal has been taking hits from all sides - including a few broadsides from the City itself.
For all of you who don't know, San Francisco has hired Carmen Policy (yes, that Carmen Policy) to head up its efforts in lobbying the San Francisco 49ers to, you know, stay in San Francisco.- First, there was a leak. Someone fed a highlighted, ear tagged and notated copy of the Santa Clara Stadium "Environmental Impact Report" to the San Francisco Chronicle's editorial board. Or maybe, after laying off half their newsroom over the past two years, the San Francisco Chronicle found the staffing and time to dig through the 178 page report (not counting the appendixes, charts and public comments which stretch it to more than 300 pages). In this report, the San Francisco 49ers have apparently made concessions to local businesses to preserve shared parking. These concessions include foregoing weeknight games during east coast prime time. That's right - no Monday Night Football, no Thursday Night Football and if enough businesses squawk, no Sunday Night Football.
The EIR said the 49ers indicated that they would "inform the NFL they will forgo weeknight games on their schedule" for any season in which they could not secure enough parking spaces.
That is a rather startling admission from a franchise that walked away from plans for a new stadium at Candlestick Point - where it had played many memorable Monday night games - mostly because of its access issues. The 49ers have been equally chilly about San Francisco's offer to incorporate a football stadium into Lennar Corp.'s redevelopment of the old Hunters Point Naval Shipyard just north of Candlestick. Again, the team's main complaint: parking and traffic flow.
Considering the Chronicle was magically able to obtain what reporters call money quotes from Carmen Policy and San Francisco Gavin Newsom, who has spent the better part of two months dodging reporters - especially the Chronicle's editorial board, it's pretty clear who the source for the editorial was. Also probably not a coincidence? Rumors SFMTA/MUNI is looking at extending the T-Third Metro Line to Hunters Point. Again.
- Secondly, today, Lennar Corp. (who's managing the redevelopment of Hunters Point) released new sketches of what the development will look like, if/when it is given the okay by the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. Included in those sketches even though it's supposed to be dead, new mock-ups of a beautiful 49ers Stadium at Hunters Point. Lennar and City officials went out of their way to point out the extremely attractive city vista from the stadium - a view that would make for great shots during primetime games, which can't be played at the Santa Clara stadium.
Images from the San Francisco Chronicle
Thirdly, finally and probably coincidentally - The owners of Paramount's Great America have sued to stop development of the Santa Clara stadium, since it's going to be built on a parking lot they currently lease. They've made noises they are amendable to a settlement, which would probably involve a substantial reduction in the revenue Santa Clara generates off the theme park. Such a reduction would enlarge budget deficits facing Santa Clara and put the ability of the city to organize and co-finance such mammoth undertaking into doubt. Beyond, the budget deficit, it's surprising Santa Clara didn't bother to call the owners of the theme park next door to the stadium to get their input on the project.
It appears the City of San Francisco has finally gotten serious about keeping the San Francisco 49ers, you know, in San Francisco. They've broken out the old FUD (that's fear, uncertainty and doubt) marketing campaign in an attempt to discredit and slow down the effort to move the team. Beyond that and more importantly, the City of San Francisco has finally started to elucidate a compelling rational for keeping the 49ers in the City: ability to play Monday and Thursday Night Football games, easier access from the East Bay and a stunning neighborhood environment around the stadium. As someone who thinks the San Francisco 49ers should stay in San Francisco, all I can say is it's about time.
(I hope I put this in the right place Fooch, as this is my first FanPost and I didn't see one about the recent developments in the stadium battle)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Correct spot
I was planning on putting together a stadium update next week, but this is a great update of the situation. This is a perfect example of what a FanPost is about. Taking something that’s newsworthy and putting together your take on it.
At this point I’d certainly prefer they stay in San Francisco, but if they went to Santa Clara I’d be perfect fine with that.
front page
I just put up a front page post, but will try and move this to the front page a little later today or tomorrow.
by David Fucillo on Dec 10, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
I like the idea of staying in SF with the HP ship yard
However, in the rendering it’s not clear of where the access roads and parking would be. I think that, that was the most appealing thing about building it in Santa Clara. The accessibility and parking would be more convenient. The Santa Clara idea is similar to what they did here in Arizona. They wanted to originally build the stadium in Phoenix by the airport but decided for conveniency purposes to build it in a remote suburbian area right off a large highway in which new businesses could build up around.
I am really sold on the night game shots of the city and things like that though. And I favor staying in SF if possible.
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
There is apparently a three fold solution...
1) Parking garages located around the new development. This is part of the “world’s largest parking garage” replacement.
2) Many of those fields would serve as temporary parking for 49ers games and then as public use sports fields for the rest of the year. This is the other part of the “world’s largest parking garage” replacement.
3) MUNI T-Third Metro Line and MUNI bus service- So you don’t have to take your car to the game in the first place.
And apparently, they won’t have the parking to have primetime weeknight games at the Santa Clara stadium either – at least according to their own Environmental Impact Report. I have trouble believing the Yorks would give up that sort of national exposure for the 49ers.
HP Shipyard
In previous discussion/articles, there was the issue of the cleanup of the HP Shipyard. Isn’t that still and issue?
That's the thing, though.
I could have sworn a couple years ago that the time table was still about a decade or so.
Update on the Cleanup...
Apparently it’s largely finished which is why they can begin to redevelop the old shipyards.
You know, I love the idea of staying in San Francisco
But I don’t know if I trust the Yorks to be intelligent enough to create a state of the art stadium, that would really emphasize the passion 49ers fans have for their team. I want them to stay in San Francisco, but given what I have been seeing other teams do with their stadiums, as well as how they’ve handled their personnel decisions, I just don’t know if the Yorks can make the plan work, and really capture the perfect environment for 49ers fans.
?
The Yorks?
They’re not designing the stadium dude.
Ever heard of an architect?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 10, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
The Niners should stay in San Fran
especially if moving to a new stadium means no primetime night games.
Why would you want to handicap your team’s exposure and revenue that way? Seems like a stupid deal just to get a new stadium.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
They're going to get a new stadium...
The question is do they get one on the Bay, in a completely redeveloped neighborhood, with beautiful vistas of Downtown San Francisco and easy East Bay access (BART/MUNI) where they can play primetime games or…
Do they get a stadium next to Paramount’s Great America and no primetime games and force everyone to battle down 880 (East Bay) or 101/280 (Peninsula) to get there?
Little biased here?..
I’m all for an SF Stadium (Brisbane offered a sweet deal to the Yorks years ago, which they turned down BTW), but what about the other side of this story?
Well, we're waiting....
LOL..
I can see where you stand on the side of this issue. But the Yorks seem pretty steadfast in the SC move. There are always 2 sides here, and I’m just wondering if you weighed in both.
I like the SF site way better than the SC site, and I feel they should stay in SF. But that’s up to SF, and now they finally revealed that “Taj Mahal” Policy talked about last year. I’m sure if it’s a viable proposal, the NFL would like the SF site better. The 49ers could be part of a “Green” project that would make great PR too.
HP does have great views. Well, depending on where you at and what time of the day you are in HP.
Well, we're waiting....
Yeah...
I guess my big beef with the Yorks is – they said the raison d’être for moving the San Francisco 49ers out of San Francisco was because the Hunters Point Stadium wouldn’t have sufficient parking.
In the Environmental Impact Report for the Santa Clara Stadium the City and 49ers concede there would not be enough available parking in the area to allow for the 49ers to play weekday games.
So they are giving up a far superior location and environment, with much better access to mass transit and much better access to the East Bay, for a stadium that doesn’t even have enough parking to allow the 49ers to play Monday Night and Thursday Night Football games (and depending on how you read it, maybe even Sunday Night games)?
I guess my whole feeling about this is… what’s the point of the move then?
I think the point of the move was...
To stick it to Gavin Newsome for not taking John York’s phone calls ; )
Well, we're waiting....
I heard it was the inverse...
John York wasn’t taking Newsom’s phone-calls for reasons only God understands.
There won't be a SF stadium
The toxic political environment of SF is worse than the toxic stuff in the ground at Hunters Point. They can’t agree on anything, and I seriously doubt that they could manage a project like this without fouling up the works. Combine that with the hosts of wacko special interest groups that would come out of the woodwork, and the project wouldn’t stand a chance. Aside from that, how are you supposed to get to the Hunter’s Point stadium? If I remememebr correctly from when I lived in the Bay Area, Candlestick was very hard to get in and out of, Hunter’s Point would be impossible.
From what it seems...
The HP Project if going forward, with or without a Stadium. The HP Project is not predicated solely on a Stadium.
I do remember looking at the proposed St. Petersburg Giants jersey’s as well.
Well, we're waiting....
Don't get me wrong
I would prefer them to stay in SF, but the Hunter’s Point site seems like a big cluster. There are probably better sites in and around SF, but who knows if they would be considered feasible? Bottom line is that they need a new stadium, and if it takes going to Santa Clara to get it then I’m fine with it. I also think they will find a way to solve the parking issue in Santa Clara to allow Monday games. There is no way the league and team is going to build something like the propsed Santa Clara stadium and not show it off on primetime.
Hunters Point...
Is the only place in the City where there is enough space unless you want to demolish neighborhoods, stick it in Golden Gate Park or put it right next the Stick. It’s actually a pretty good plan as far as plans go.
I went to Google maps and noticed an area just Southwest of the stadium between 101 and Bayshore Blvd that has Cal trans rails through it. The area is between Tunnel Ave and Geneva Ave. What is that and could it be a possible site? It loks big enough to hold a stadium, lots of parking, and easy access to Cal train lines and 101. Of course this piece of land could already have something on it, but on the google picture it looks like it is not being used.
I think that belongs to Brisbane..
I guy I knew who worked for the City of Brisbane told me that they had a proposal for the Yorks, a sweet deal, but they didn’t bite. IIRC, this is the area he was talking about.
Well, we're waiting....
If the 49ers do wind up in SC...
It still won’t stop the HP development. They already have the money earmarked for it. It seems to be the final phase of a whole 3rd Street revitalization that started with Pac Bell being built. That area was a dump before, and had toxic issues as well. Treasure Island also had toxic issues.
I think the HP is way better than SC. I can’t find a good restaurant anywhere near Great America. Of course, I only have gone there for work (I live in So-Cal now), but SC is really San Jose. I would LMAO of shots of SF while a game was being played a short cab ride away from SJ on a Monday Night.
Well, we're waiting....
The clean-up has been underway for a while now...
And redevelopment of the area will include widening the streets in and out of Hunters Point and probably include stretching MUNI Metro T-Third line all the way to Hunters Point (it’s like 95% of the way there now). It’s the biggest redevelopment/expansion of San Francisco since the reconstruction after the 1906 Earthquake. They’ve been planning and debating and redoing the planning and cleaning up for the better part of 20 years now.
How long would this take?
You’re saying that they’re almost done cleaning up HP but this could take decade(s)….
Especially since the SF people can’t agree on anything.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Do they agree on letting the 49ers play there?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 11, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
Like proposing with a picture from Kay Jewelers instead of an actual ring from Kay Jewelers.
An artist rendering of the development site isn’t a thing like a commitment to the site. The 49ers issues with Hunter Point are still the same: transportation options are horrendous, both vehicle and public trans. SF doesn’t want to contribute a dime of their own money to the stadium but wants architectural control. Finally the site is still a pipe dream. Sure, the area is clean until they start to dig and build, trust me I’m involved in the industry. All which drove the 49ers away from SF.
As for the Santa Clara site, what constituents enough parking? IMO, parking and traffic complaints are a crap issue. The site is already zoned, accounted and planned for businesses and industry. It’s not like the stadium is being built in the center of suburb. It’s at Great America, a sight residents are already accustom to traffic issues, not to mention a huge, existing investment in transportation. That prime time traffic clause is just to grease the wheels and win a few extra votes for the election but has no actual teeth.
It’s SF fault the 49ers aren’t interested in SF. The 49ers made their list of demands very clear and SF balked at all them, hence they found another suitor. Now if SF wants to throw some actual incentives into Hunters Point instead asking the 49ers to cough up incentives from them, along with ponying up a huge initial investment in transportation than maybe SF has a real proposal. It’s a pretty rendering, but Lennar isn’t interested in giving up real estate for the necessary transportation for a stadium, even the famously incompetent York family sniffed that one out.
There is still a question?
As a niner fan living in Utah, I am apparently more out of touch than I thought. It has been my understanding that the Santa Clara deal was a lock, over, done. The last I heard, construction was scheduled to begin next year once all parties finally signed off with an opening date of the 2012 season. There was a press release that I read today that the NFL has even agreed to sign off on a shared stadium concept between the 49ers and Raiders and share some of the cost.
I really find it interesting that now suddenly there are hidden aspects to the deal that were just recently uncovered. I seriously doubt the validity of some of those hidden aspects. If the NFL indeed has no problem with a possible joint tenure, they must know some of the details of the stadium contract. There is no way in my opinion that the NFL would ever buy the idea of no evening games just to keep some local businesses happy. And Great America is probably just angling for a better lease deal.
California
Nothing’s ever a lock in California.
by David Fucillo on Dec 11, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
..
Bring the niners to Santa Clara! then i would only have to drive home drunk for about 3 minutes down 101 to get home…lol….. JK…
But i would like to see them stay in san francisco, if not SF then come to santa clara… But DEFIDENTLY DONT GO TO LA!!!!
Whoever voted go to LA
Get off this site, and never come back! Ugh, I don’t even want to imagine what I’d do…Would I root for the Raiders? Please just stay in SF
by Pearlsofwisdom on Dec 11, 2009 10:30 AM PST reply actions
I thought
that S.F. wanted more of a green house stadium with showers and bike lanes ( higher cost ) . Niners wanted better access for fan to Area. Besides,the Toxic dump site will never be clean properly. After 60 years + of Naval yardwork, the silent truth is it will never be fit for human use. 30 years from now, who knows what will happen.
Clean up is possible
I was stationed on a Naval base on an island off of Alaska. When the base was shut down, they had to clean up a fairly big toxic waste site that had been accumulating since before WW II. Before the island could be turned back over to the Aluets, it had to be completely clean. It took a while, but it was done.

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