Terrell Owens: A member of the 49ers again?
by smileyman on Dec 13, 2009 9:09 AM PST
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PrintFooch's Note: The link at the end is to a Matt Barrows article. TO basically has said he'd certainly be intrigued about the idea of ending his career with the 49ers (in a playing role, not just a ceremonial 10-day contract). My stance on TO has softened quite a bit over the last few years. Given the fact that Mike Singletary doesn't take guff from players I'd certainly be intrigued by the possibility. This is all assuming that he's not just throwing some BS out there to get a little buzz. At the same time, with Vernon Davis taking his game to the next level and Michael Crabtree showing he's legit, is there any room for a TO? You've got Josh Morgan continuing to develop. And if you think Brandon Jones will get more playing time next year and Jason Hill emerge a little bit more, do you really want to stunt that growth? At the same time, although TO has struggled this year, he's shown flashes in recent weeks of the skills that have made him so great. I know some folks still hate him, but if you can put the hate aside for a moment, do the 49ers make this kind of move for a 1- or 2-year contract?
TO is making noises like he wants to be back in San Francisco to finish up his career. We all know his history with the team, and his leaving left a bitter taste in many fan's mouths. He managed to run himself out of Philly, and then got run out of Dallas (I don't think he was ever the problem there).
However, he's been much more restrained in Buffalo, despite having one of his worst seasons ever. He signed a one-year deal with Buffalo ($6.5 million, $4 million of it guaranteed).
Relevant quotes from the article
"Maybe to remove the curse, they have to put me back in that uniform," he said, only half-joking, from Buffalo, where he noted he had signed a one-year deal.
Last week, however, Owens had softened his stance and sounded nostalgic about his time with the 49ers. He credited Jerry Rice and former receivers coaches Larry Kirksey and George Stewart for helping mold the ambitious but raw wide receiver who arrived from Tennessee-Chattanooga in 1996.
"Along with Jerry Rice, those two guys alone have been so instrumental in what I've become today," Owens said. "No one seems to know that or give them the credit, and I put in a lot of hard work. But without those two guys coaching me, striving and instilling in me the things that it takes to be successful, I wouldn't be where I am today."
Owens also said he would be open to finishing his NFL career in the city where it began. He recently said he would like to play at least two more seasons.
"I wouldn't want to go back just to, you know, put on a uniform just to end my career there," he said. "If I came back, I know I'm capable of playing this game at a high level. I would be instrumental and would want to be instrumental in whatever they're trying to strive to do in that organization."
I would be excited to see TO in red and gold again, especially if we could do it at a reasonable price. We paid Isaac Bruce $1.5 million this year in base salary. Bruce's stats for the last three years:
2007: 55 receptions, 733 yards
2008: 61 receptions, 835 yards
2009: 21 receptions, 264 yards
Terrell Owen's stats over the same period:
2007: 81 receptions, 1355 yards
2008: 69 receptions, 1052 yards
2009: 43 receptions, 690 yards
In my view TO has been much more productive than Isaac Bruce. I'd be willing for the team to pay him $2 million a year and load his contract with incentives. This would give us VD, Crabtree, Owens, and Morgan as receiving threats. We could have Morgan focus on PR/KR. Defenses could never cover us with their base packages, as it would create nightmare scenarios for them.
Here's the link to the article in case anyone wants to read the whole thing.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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hmm
let me sleep on it…
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
so I slept on it
and I’m still torn, part of me says he’s T.O, remember what he did when he left SF the first time, remember what he did in Philly and Dallas, remember the dropped balls, the name calling, the “that’s my quarterback man”, the driveway sit-ups and all of the other things that make me want to stay far away from him.
Then the nostalgic side of me remembers when T.O. was just Terrell Owens, one of the best young WR’s in the game, catching passes from Steve Young and Jeff Garcia, and saving the 49ers from yet another Packers playoff loss. I want to say come on back and relive the glory days Terrell. Here’s your #81 jersey, let’s let bygone’s be bygone’s and play some football.
It’s scary to me, but I think this could work. Call me stupid or whatever, but I think T.O. is a different T.O. then the one we watched in Philly and Dallas. Of course his production is down and he’s probably not as feared as he once was, but to counter that, his attitude seems to have leveled off enough, and if he is that serious about ending his career where it began and trying to erase all of the negativity, I think he would come in, keep his mouth shut and produce. I could see him having a hell of a year. Can you imagine team’s having to defend T.O, Crabs, VD and Gore! Where do you start?
So I guess what I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing T.O back in the Red and Gold under the right conditions. As long as his attitude stays in check, I could see him doing a lot of good for the offense. Heck, he might even make me break out the old T.O. jersey from the closet!
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
Can't do any worse
I have to admit the last time I was excited about the Niners was when Owens was on the team. I’d rather have Bruce as a mentor to Crabtree, but that’s no reason to keep a guy on the team. And maybe, just maybe, if we had Owens in that Minnesota game, we would have beaten Favre and would be one game closer to Arizona. This is all wishful thinking I’m sure.
Of course, if we were talking about adding Owens circa 2001 to the team, that'd be one thing
But that guy isn’t available.
The guy who might be available is a guy who will turn 37 next year.
I think a lot of the “yes” voters on this board are not paying attention to that. Suffering nostalgia, they want that guy who was, legitimately, one of the most dangerous receivers in the league.
But Owens isn’t that guy any more, and next year he’s likely to be worse.
And adding an aging veteran at the tail end of his career to a team that isn’t likely to be a super bowl contender with the addition is just dumb. We’re 2-3 years away … in 2-3 years he’ll be retired. Give the reps to Morgan and Hill instead.
by Ronaldinho on Dec 14, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying TO is Jerry
but in case you were wondering, Jerry Rice had two 1000-yard seasons at age 39 and 40 (with 15 TDs in that span). Owens picked up his training habits from the man himself, and is in peak physical condition. Owens is no Randy Moss, he doesn’t just quit when he doesn’t feel like playing. Just one thing to keep in mind.
We may not be getting the TO in his prime version, but let’s not kid ourselves, Owens would be the second best receiver on our team instantly. With TO’s impressive physical condition, he could easily score 5-6 TDs and put up 800 yards receiving. That is, if the 49ers keep the same offensive philosophy that is working right now. If the team goes out and grabs a mauling RT, and a stud LG, smashmouth sing may be in out 2010 future.
Alex Smith may have been the #1 overall pick but he still can’t tell why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
by Andrew Davidson on Dec 14, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Jerry Rice is a terrible comparison here!
Jerry Rice was one of the most remarkable athletes of all time. A LOT of players shared his training schedule. Did any of them perform as well as he did as long as he did?
Jerry Rice had an UNUSUAL amount of longevity. He’s an outlier. The reason why I pointed out Issac Bruce and Tim Brown as comparisons in my other post was because those guys are ALSO remarkable for their longevity.
Very few NFL receivers are effective at 37. This is true even if you restrict your analysis to the subset of receivers who aged extremely well.
Yes, if Owens ages as well as THE RECEIVER WITH PROBABLY THE BEST LONGEVITY IN NFL HISTORY he’ll be good for a couple of more seasons.
Is that a reasonable assumption to make?
Jerry Rice's last three seasons were mediocre at best
Plus he missed an entire season back in 1997. The yards per game and yards per catch average of the two are nearly identical. JR has more total yards and more TDs, but that’s also because he played for 20 seasons (not counting the 1997 season). TO has only played for 14.
TO has a chance to get a 1000 yards receiving this year and that’s with the horrible Bills. I see no reason to think that TO couldn’t turn in a couple of really good years.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
" I see no reason to think that TO couldn’t turn in a couple of really good years."
So you think his performance won’t decline like nearly every other WR not named Jerry Rice?
I mean, it’d be one thing if you were saying, “Well, there’s a chance he’ll be better than who we have,” but you’re saying that there’s “no reason” to think he won’t be in serious decline at age 38? (You did say a “couple of years”).
That’s crazy. Age catches up to everyone. Here’s a better question:
Is there any reason to think that TO will not merely have above-average longevity, but that he’ll resist aging as well as anybody who’s ever played the game at his position?
Because that’s more or less what you’re claiming.
TO is still performing at a fairly high level
His lower stats this year are due to his getting fewer targets than in Dallas and to playing for the Bills.
His yards per catch is 15.7, which is a full yard better than his average. He had a 1000 yard season each of his 3 years in Dallas. He needs 300 yards this season to have another 1000 yard season.
He’s having a better year than VD is and VD is our #1 receiver and in his prime.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
He is.
But, as I wrote elsewhere in this thread, when WRs get old and hit the wall, it happens fast.
Owens is old enough that – even if you believe his skills haven’t dipped (and I think his YPC is a function of the playcalling more than skill improvement, but whatever) it’s still nonsensical to believe that he will maintain it for two more seasons.
I’m not convinced he’s better than Davis, although a direct statistical comparison is difficult because they’ve playing in such different situations. That being said, Owens is -9 DYAR (in other words, his performance is WORSE than a replacement-level wideout getting that many balls thrown to him) and his VOA is -14.1%. That makes him, by FO’s analysis, the 59th best WR in the game. (To be fair, this puts him two spots about Morgan and 12 above Crabtree).
Davis, on the other hand, has a DYAR of 148, and a DVOA of 15.9%, making him the 6th best TE in the game.
So, no, he’s not having a better year than VD.
Think I would prefer a
Brandon Marshall or Vincent Jackson. However, we do need a genuine #1WR go-to guy to help take some of the load away from Crabtree,and if he still has the pace to be a deep threat from next year, then he could be the man.
However, unsure about his rate of needless drops-we just cant afford this as a team considering where we are in our progression-and the fact that he would make the place a media circus. I dont believe even MS could control that.
by Ninerfromacrossthepond on Dec 13, 2009 5:15 AM PST reply actions
FARK him!
I can’t believe anyone would consider reinviting this cancer. Yes, he is on good behavior this year which only proves one thing: he’s smart enough to lay low when having a crappy season.
Agree with Ninerfromacrossthepond, MS wouldn’t be able to control the situation from becoming a circus or destructive.
he's got two seasons left
and I doubt he’d be a distraction in the place where it all began for him. I think this is a move by Owens to get fans back on his side before he retires, and erases all the bad memories. He comes back to San Francisco, plays well and keeps his mouth partially shut, I know my memory of 2004 will be erased.
Alex Smith may have been the #1 overall pick but he still can’t tell why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
by Andrew Davidson on Dec 13, 2009 6:53 AM PST up reply actions
Not worth the risk
I just don’t see the upside compared to the risk. We have a decent receiving corps that needs maturity, not immaturity.
by FanBelge on Dec 13, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
VD wont like his take over!!!!
TO just know the 49ers are going to be RAW next year!!! V Davis is the boss around here and TO will know that, so let him come if we will be unstopable. But I have a feeling ABolin from Arz is going to be a 49er
HE want out OF AZ
The cards dont want to pay him. Now they cant afford him because the 49ers ran up the price on K Warner. so what better way to get back at your former team, sing with there div foe. That why we dont want TO because we will get AB. And Half those injuries are fake because he dont want to be there.
(site decorum) T.O.
Will be catch the ball better than Morgan? He can do more after the catch than anyone on our roster. However, what if he turned Morgan and Crabtree into gym rats? That would bode well for us in the future, hey add Hill in the mix as well. I think the signing of Jones is biting us in the rear and will continue to bite us.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Eh, I don't see how it bites anyone in the ass
not a lot of money, and he was really good in the pre-season before the injury. he has great hands and will get plenty of playing time the next couple of years.
he was signed because they didn’t know if Bruce would be back and Crabtree was probably the only receiver in the draft they were going to take outside of the last couple of rounds.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 13, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
I think it takes away from Hill and his development.
I think Hill is a better WR.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
then all it is is competition
for Hill to overcome. I don’t think 3 mil/yr is going to mean he gets any favors to play over him.
In my opinion it’s going to be a 3-way competition for that #2 slot with Morgan, Jones, and Hill, but even that won’t mean they get a ton of targets.
Heading into next year, touches/targets will probably go something like
#1. Gore
#2. Crabtree
#3. Davis
#4. Whomever the #2 receiver is
#5. Walker
#6. Whomever the #3 receiver is
#7. Coffee
#8. Whomever the #4 receiver is
And there could be another wrinkle if they bring in a speed back returner who functions as a wing back/slot receiver. I’d expect him to go ahead of walker in that case.
Hill and Jones both face huge uphill climbs to make an effect unless the 49ers can transform into an offense that gets a lot of first downs and a lot of plays. Or, ya know, they suffer injuries.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 13, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Crabtree is a far better player, and a much more well-rounded receiver than VD.
It’s not even close.
The only reason Davis’ numbers are so eye-popping this season is because he presents match-up problems against linebackers and strong safeties. He still runs ugly routes and he’s still got poor hands. Once teams start scheming against him, rather than Gore (and you can expect this to happen very soon), you’ll see Davis’ production take a huge drop.
All that being said, I’m still happy with VD – I just see a much brighter future for Crabtree.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
I loved TO, and still loathe that team management trading him for pennies on the dollar
all because the team was headed into the crapper and couldn’t keep it together.
But now at this point, TO brings nothing to the team. He doesn’t bring great hands, he doesn’t bring explosive ability, he doesn’t bring veteran leadership.
He could bring something to a lot of teams, the 49ers aren’t one of them.
I can’t wait for his hall of fame speech, he’s going to be a fountain of emotion.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 13, 2009 9:31 AM PST reply actions
The curse will be lifted...
…when T.O. retires. He is not coming here. He better not come here. I would be shocked if he did, and I would be shocked if he didn’t try to take over the locker room and undo everything Singletary has tried to instill in this team. He is well-known for being polarizing, drawing half the team to “his side,” and the other half against him. He splits groups of people because he is a BASTARD.
NO, THANK YOU!
T. O. a Niner ???
The T. does not stand for TEAM and the O. does not stand for OCHENTA UNO! (unless he does a Chad & calls himself Ocho Uno).
"We don’t need no stinking’ bastards!" No way, Jose!
by Flyin' Taco on Dec 13, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
I Love Me Some Me!
Bring him back. He will install the Jerry work ethic into the young receivers who talk the big game but would actually get to see the work it takes to be the big game. Not to mention with him and VD bumping their gums the 49ers easily become the most despised offense in the league (that’s entertainment for me).
I’d give him a 2 year contract with the 2nd year being a team option, because Terrell can still transform into T.O.
no
crabbs is a lil diva already. the niners don’t need him influencing him on how he should see the game. so h3!! no. we don’t need another issac bruce but with more negatives than positives
go niners!!! airday allday
Yep
TO as a role model for for Crabtree or any other young receiver? Bad phlucking idea.
I'm still not convinced.
No it isn't
He’s not gonna pass down love you some you. It’s only room for one of those guys on the team.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
What Has Crabs
shown for you to call him a diva? Holding out is a business decision it has nothing to do with being or not being a diva
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 14, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
When he explained ducking that pass that was behind him, I mean ducking the hit
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
er
that sh!+$ fuuny. must be a rome fan. if you are, war the niners in 2010 without t.o. if not mabad.
go niners!!! airday allday
by calinig4life on Dec 13, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
I would accept him again...
because he will eventually make the HoF and he will most likely choose to a Niner when he does. So why not let him finish his career with the Niners.
i cant believe its been 11 years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzThn8pkpC0
i think they need to start the “T.O clause”. for players with past issues like TO, it states that at any point in the season if he starts to be a detriment to the team, they can cut him and only pay him for the games he played (ex a $16m/yr contract and he gets cut after 8 games, they only pay him $8M)
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 11:08 AM PST reply actions
The Catch II
The NFL Network re-aired the Fox broadcast of that game over the summer. I’ve got it saved on my DVR. I love watching that entire last drive.
by David Fucillo on Dec 13, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
We don't need him and not worth the chance...
We have great receivers as (Whist) listed. I wouldn’t take the chance of him speaking out to the players or complaining. Sing is building a family of players. We always lacked it but now we are really getting that tea chemistry.. We already have sooo much talent after FA and the draft I will will extremely confident going into next year. Sing will also mature as a coach, remember that was his rookie year. HA
What this means: a vote of confidence
I can see both sides of this.
As an aside, I think this reflects a general sense around the league that the 49er offense, and passing game, will be strong next year. Receivers want to play with a good quarterback. I see this as a vote of confidence in Alex Smith.
In general, a deep threat fits in well to complement Crabtree (and Davis and Walker and Gore). (I think TO is still a deep threat?) In particular, how would this effect the locker room? Hard to predict. Singletary is a powerful person. If he could make this work that would be impressive.
by zacksf on Dec 13, 2009 11:33 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
this is probably the most interesting comment I’ve read on this post. you bring up an excellent point. However, I don’t think fans are ready to forgive him. Singletary is already on thin ice and I don’t think he sticks his neck out for TO.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 14, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think Singletary is on thin ice at all.
And judging by the poll, almost 60% of us think this is a great idea.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I don’t think fans are ready to forgive him.
First touchdown catch, and all past transgressions will be forgiven. Deep down, fans really don’t care about all the drama so long as a player produces and helps a team win.
See: Crabtree after lengthy holdout.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Bring T.O. back to the Bay!(niners side)
Yes, please do it. T.O.‘s a monster, he would tear it up if he was on our team. Think about it his qb is Ryan Fitzpatrick(???) and a terrible Trent Edwards(decent, bad year). He’s a great blocker, and he’s 4th all time in Touchdowns. Him and Vernon would be absolute beasts in the Red Zone. He provides that 2nd vertical option next to Crabtree. It would be an absolute savage of a team. And I get to rock out the old Niners Owens Jersey. Bring T.O. Back!
I keep hearing this
Singletary is a powerful person. If he could make this work that would be impressive.
If he’s so ‘powerful’ then why does our team play so poorly when it counts? Oh yeah, because its all the fault of the players individually and not the coach…
Don’t get me wrong ~ l like Sing and think he deserves another full year but the idea that he is so motivating and ‘powerful’ that he has to be a great coach doesn’t square with the wholly unpredictable and unconvincing results we’ve been blessed with since week 5. Meanwhile the much ballyhooed ‘smash mouth’ run em over strategy has been totally abandoned for some sort of Air Coryell/West Coast thingy offense on the turn of a dime because Alex Smith all of a sudden is our franchise QB.
I'm still not convinced.
Powerful, meaning can control the atmosphere of the locker room. Not powerful in the sense he has a magic victory wand.
Points aren’t scored and games aren’t won in the locker room whether you have your pants on or not.
What I am questioning is the ‘atmosphere’ on the field of play.
BTW are you still dismissing out of hand that we might have a perfect SB this year?
I'm still not convinced.
I am not sure you understand what you are seeing on the field.
The frustrating loses you see are not random events. They are associated with specific problems, weaknesses other coaches can attack and exploit. Briefly and specifically:
lack of coverage ability (secondary) enables opposing teams to come back with a reasonable likelihood of success late in the game (via passing), and,
an offensive line that cannot run-block and is marginal to average in pass-blocking limits the spectrum of threats available to our offense in a way that allows defenses to focus in on a few things, and makes it virtually impossible for the offense to take time off the clock.
These are not coaching issues. They are personnel issues and need to be addressed and understood is you wish to understand the niners limitations and this time and their (our) potential.
Agreed 99%
The 1% is that we do have a raw HC – Singletary’s learning the coaching ropes along the way too. The man’s definitely taking notes though – he’s gonna be an incredible coach for our future.
In recent games...
we’ve made some big mistakes going for it on 4th down, playing a ball-control or all-safe type of game, and being careless with timeouts and pre-half ending possessions. Those have killed us, and those are coaching errors.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
WOw
Ignore the coaching changes the OL changes and the QB changes and the offensive scheme changes, you’re right on top of that one.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
by rlott#42 on Dec 13, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
one hundred times over
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 14, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
Assuming that
… Jones, Battle, and Bruce are released/don’t resign, as I hope, then it is reasonable to consider this. Another receiver will need to be brought in, even if Hill and Morgan stay. I don’t think the team will do this though.
Yes, yes and yes.
T.O. + VD + Crabs with a seemingly improving Alex Smith would give us the best aerial attack since Owens left in 2002. A 1 or 2 year deal won’t hurt us in the long run, and we’ll have a serious chance to win the division with a full season of that offense on the field.
We’ve got cap room, too – I’d make this move in a heartbeat.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
+1
This. Imagine an opened up offense with Crabs, VD, TO, and Morgan in the slot? Awesome.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
I also agree with shlecko
a 1 or 2 year deal would be good for the niners and TO. the more and more I think about it, the more i’m wanting this to happen. I’m sick of seeing the Cards with the best WR’s in the west. Acquiring T.O. would certainly put the niners right up there, not only in the west, but also in the league. The great thing is that T.O. wouldn’t have a big pricetag.
Imagine an opened up offense with Crabs, VD, TO, and Morgan in the slot?
that’s crazy………..crazy good!!!
by sundaysfinest on Dec 13, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
When he catches the damn ball
Never know if he is gonna catch the ball or not. I can still remember that Bears OT game he lost being scared goin over the middle on 3rd.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
have to agree with you there
Alex Smith may have been the #1 overall pick but he still can’t tell why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
by Andrew Davidson on Dec 13, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
C'mon man stop being a tool
Stunt the growth for Jason Hill?? Brandon Jones?? Josh Morgan??? Before Crabtree got here we had the worst collection of WR’s in the league. Hill and Jones are role players at best. Morgan might have some upside but TO at 35 is still light years better then Morgan right now.
Get serious to the guys who dont want this. What sounds better? “Smith has two wideouts..Crabtree and Ownes” or “Smith has three wideouts..Crabtree, Hill and Morgan” lol cmon
worst collection of WR's in the league
It is a common understanding that this is the deepest WR core in 49ers history
I don’t think Hill and Morgan would just disappear if Owens was signed. It would be more like Smith has four wideouts..Crabtree, Owens, Hill, and Morgan.
I want me some Buster
and I would much rather have them as the 3rd and 4th right now while they develop. They may become the guys for the future but they aren’t there yet.
I want me some Buster
Another year behind another vet doesn't help them get ready.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
No thanks
Alex Smith is still developing his chemistry (or is it physics?) with the receivers we have now. Why confuse things by adding one whose role would be uncertain anyway?
Crabtree, Morgan and Hill are the best group we’ve had since the Rice-Owens years. That’s not the element of the team that needs to be upgraded. Let’s bring some free agents in who can shore up the O-line, defensive backfield and pass rush.
You can blame T.O.‘s performance this year on his QBs, perhaps. But when he was (sometimes) catching passes from Romo or McNabb, it seems his coaches decided he wasn’t worth keeping around.
Imagine if T.O. were a Niner now. He’d be looking around the locker room for
someone to point a finger at. No team needs that kind of selfishness.
Finally, when he pulled that stunt in Dallas Stadium, I was disgusted and wanted him gone. He hasn’t done anything since to change my mind. Despite his on-and-off brilliant play, I have no nostalgia regarding his time as a 49er.
We'll see them again in the playoffs! What channel is it on?
I think
That’s at best a premature conclusion. I’m not that confident in Jones, and I’ll agree with you on Battle. But Morgan and Hill are young enough to become more than role players, especially as they get more experience with Smith. Owens has star talent, but he’s clearly on the downslope and his negatives outweigh his positives, IMO.
We'll see them again in the playoffs! What channel is it on?
It's not like Hill
Can sniff the rotation anyway. I’m a big fan of his, and I don’t know who’s doghouse he’s in, but that guy just can’t get on the field this year!
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
i dont understand how this will hurt our WR
people say that it will cause morgan, crabs, and hill, our future, to be diminished. but how?
i imagine that if TO comes in, the opponents best CB will cover him, well him or crabs. that means that the second best CB will probably cover T.O or crabs, leaving their lesser CBs to cover morgan and hill, which should increase their production?
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 12:31 PM PST reply actions
also
we will have VD AND WALKER there. can you imagine a lineup on the field of T.O, Crabs, VD, Walker, and Morgan?
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
You said the magic word . . . WALKER
Hill, Battle and Jones are soooo talented that freaking Walker is often the 3rd WR on the field. Yes, the 49ers bring on their 2nd TE before the 3rd WR to generate a passing offense.
so are you saying
that hill/jones are bad? battle is gone this offseason, and jones we really don’t know how he will do. no matter how much people say he’s not good, he only has been played rarely.
if we signed T.O and had crabs, T.O, morgan, walker, and jones/hill
fire raye and sign mike martz… because we would be throwing almost every down lol
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
I am saying Hill and Jones are certainly not good. Not getting game time when the guys ahead in the depth chart aren’t doing much is a solid indicator that Jones isn’t good.
Anyways, the notion that the 49ers shouldn’t bring in another WR because it will stunt their growth is laughable. Morgan would be on the field even with T.O. on the team. These other guys aren’t even on the field now without T.O.
I’d like to have T.O. back. I’m not expecting a miracle but he’d be an improvement to what the 49ers have as a 2nd/3rd option. The 49ers would cut him the second he got out of control so I’m not worried about this cancer argument.
Also, I was always a T.O. fan. The previous divorce from the 49ers was mutual. He would have spent the prime of his career on an awful team and like us he knew the York’s sucked too. I don’t blame him for wanting out.
He's on the field to create the best mismatch
We have caught teams in run defense due to him being a TE and we have been successful with the mismatches.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
I find that amazing
Walker is a horrible blocker. I’d venture to say that Hill and Jones might be more effective blockers.
But I know what you are saying.
Where do you get that he's a "horrible" blocker?
I’ve seen him make plenty of solid seal-off blocks on the ends. He’s not a mauler that’s going to drive linebackers into the secondary, for sure, but he’s passable in the running game – and certainly poses a lot more of a threat to block than a 3rd WR.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
He's not horrible
average maybe, but not horrible. He’s missed some crucial blocks in the past.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Because TO is CRAZY, that's why!
He’s the Stephen Jackson of football, except that TO sulks even when his team is winning. At least the Dubs got “Good” Jax when they were winning.
TO is on pace for a 1000 yard year
this with the horrible Bills.
We haven’t had a 1000 yard receiver since he left.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
T.O's Future
Actually, I think he should quit football and go on Dancing with the Stars. After all, he’s already shown he can dance on the Star.
We'll see them again in the playoffs! What channel is it on?
I admit I’ve been a TO fan despite his mouth running..but I see the team moving forward n not taking a step back n bringing back TO.
by Living49rLegend on Dec 13, 2009 12:55 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Nice to dream about...
…And however unlikely, it would be nice to see Terrell Owens, the only real “apprentice” to the great Jerry Rice himself, come back onto the 49ers team and better the performance of receivers like Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan and Jason Hill. But the reason I think it is unlikely to happen is because players of the “celebrity” status of Brett Favre or Terrell Owens normally don’t just go back onto a team (or return to a former team) with a different jersey number. Presenly, Brandon Jones occupies Owens’ number 81 on the team, and I don’t think the organization would simply force him to take Isaac Bruce’s number (provided he retires) so that Terrell Owens could have his back. It would look juvenile on part of the 49ers, let alone silly.
I have always thought Terrell Owens is a great wide receiver, but he is certainly not “legendary”. For me, there is good, great then legendary.
Referencing the Rocky movies, does Terrell Owens not remind anybody of Apollo Creed? He certainly reminds me of him in his character and personality, lol.
uhhh
bp. players of the "celebrity" status of Brett Favre or Terrell Owens normally don’t just go back onto a team (or return to a former team) with a different jersey number.
michael jordan going back to the bulls with #45?
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
I really like this line
it would be nice to see Terrell Owens, the only real "apprentice" to the great Jerry Rice himself,
It’s so true.
by bignerd on Dec 13, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure Brandon Jones could be persuaded to give up his jersey
Assuming Jones would even make it on the roster with Hill, Morgan, Crabtree and Owens in the rotation.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I think it would be helpful if we made him change his number. break him down a little bit.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions
i remember backyard sports
those video games with the kids as players and the little asian kid in the wheelchair
he caught everything. i bet T.O could catch punts right in his lap
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
In a heartbest...
For all of his antics, TO brings it on gameday. TO and Crabs wide, with VD at TE, and possibly Morgan in the slot? Man, that’s some weapons for ASmith to work with. I’ve also always been a huge fan of TO. Dude’s a beast.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
Absolutely, positively not...
Do you really want to subject a still developing QB like Alex Smith to the antics of Terrell Owens? He’s locker room poison. He was in San Francisco, he was in Philadelphia, he was in Dallas and if he stays in Buffalo for too long, he will be poison there as well. He’s a cancer in locker rooms. Keep him as far from San Francisco as possible.
His talent isn’t irreplaceable and the last thing the 49ers need, in their efforts to continue to build and develop, is drama.
The poison in the Dallas locker room wasn't TO
He was the scapegoat. He wasn’t poison in San Fran for most of his career here. I think that he could handle himself for two more years. He’s been a consistent 1000 yard receiver his entire career (and could still hit 1000 this year), and that’s something we haven’t had since he left.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I'd say 60% of you...
have short memories
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
Let's bring back Antonio Bryant too and Jeff at QB
Sorry just had to say that. Almost want to say bring back Lawrence Phillips too.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 13, 2009 2:09 PM PST reply actions
I always liked Jeff Garcia
thought he got a bum rap.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Not disagreeing with you on that at all..
hesitated putting his name there actually and having him on the team as a better “tutor” than Dilfer might have helped or could help Alex and Nate. But don’t think we want to go there or any of those choices.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 13, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Bolin, O + D lines, Sacks, Returnman, Secondary > Owens
I voted yes – beyond that though, there’s plenty more for this team to worry about than bringing Terrell back. I think that investing in our lines, particularly offense, along with other obvious drawbacks this season (cough, cough, hire my grandma for punt returns, hack, cough), and that Owens is, at best, an afterthought until we get everything else straightened out.
Someone said earlier that Boldin could be a Niner next year – not too far fetched if he’s really as pissed about the Cards as we’ve been hearing, and he’d be a nice asset before Owens.
As for T.O.‘s personality issues, I hear alot about him with living in Western NY – aside from crying about not getting the ball only (surprisingly) a couple times this year, he has been silent. Partly because he’s never landed with a team as disgusting as the Bills I’d imagine, but he’s gotta mellow out at some point. And if he hasn’t, and by happenstance he’s back in our crimson next year, Reverend Singletary will lay down the law.
One last note though: I had the pleasure of attending a Bills training camp session earlier in the year and shaking a jersey only a foot away from T.O. when he was coming down the fence line and signing items at the end. He didn’t sign mine – something I took rather personally at the time cause it was an Owens 49ers jersey. Maybe at the time he scoffed at it cause the season hadn’t started yet, but maybe it’s coming back around to him now as the Bills flounder to the end? Probably flattering myself, but I’ll bet he remembered that jersey – maybe the Niners times weren’t so bad afterall, eh Owens?
I hope you're right
And that image of someone holding his Niners’ jersey has been burned into his brain all year.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
One other thing too -
This guy, in spite of all his flaws and with his excellent gameplay, wants to get to the Superbowl again. Sure as heck not going to do it with the Bills, and the Niners are on the rise. He wants to win it all, and guaranteed he would not intend on just coming along for a free ride.
Perhaps
He’s been somewhat of a distructive influence in every place he’s been except Buffalo. So is the Buffalo TO the new TO or just an aberition? I have always wondered what uniform TO would wear into the Hall of Fame. Is it up to the player or can teams say they don’t want him wearing their uniform. It sounds like he’ld enter the Hall as a 49er but it would be funny if teams did have a say in the matter and he had to enter the Hall wearing a generic NFL uniform.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
I'm all for it
T.O. could show Crabs and Morgan what Bay Area Co-op to get their nutritional supplements at!
Gimme 1 round!
TO was many things
but not roids.
"One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures." -George W. Bush
Here you go again
Knockin’ someone’s dedication, sometimes you can be toolish and can always be entertaining.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
NOT good for Alex Smith
He will be demanding the ball. With Smith developing and all the talent we have our plan is to “spread” it out. We don’t need TO calling for the ball and getting Alex Frustrated. The offensive talent is there we just need to block better. And I can see our defense being top five next year with a little help
Singletary won't allow it
He will be demanding the ball
by sundaysfinest on Dec 13, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Bill Parcells didn't stand for it either...
Anyone remember “the receiver” during press conferences? He’s nothing but drama and that’s the last thing the 49ers need now.
Hell No We Won't T.O.
the last thing we need is any chance of a distraction.
For once in a long time we have an opportunity to finish a year in a system that will likely be here next year. We should make No changes to the QB-WR-TE connection. This unit as this unit needs to develop chemistry.
distraction from what?
having our recievers drop more balls? As far as I am concerned, we need upgrades and improvement in all offense positions save a few…having a 1k yard, big play reciever only helps our team—how many games have we lost by 3 points?!
There is an old saying, “winning cures all.” There may be many things Terrell Owens is. One thing is certain he wants to win.
Maybe
The only way i would even approve of T.O. coming back is if he and Crabtree where not allowed in the same room together for longer then 5 minutes. Crabs is already enough of a diva for my taste, no sense in allowing T.O. the opportunity to influence him further.
HELL TO THE (SITE DECORUM) NAW!!!!
Naw is no to the third power, I’d rather go after Boldin or V Jackson, the younger version of TO.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
yeah come on
you cant just say “dont get TO because we’ll get boldin or jackson”
the chargers wont let their #1 WR go and after boldin’s play, the cardinals won’t let him go quietly
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 13, 2009 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
The Charger have to choose between their number 1 WR or LT
Plus we don’t need him. His hands aren’t that great, and Morgan drops but not as much. plus he has to have the ball, he is trying hard to catch Rice. And he F##### us with no vaseline.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
don't need him?
We have more dropped balls than a high school football team warming up while gawking at cheerleaders…man’ if Stickem were still allowed I’d coat the entire offense’s hands with it..and maybe VD’s helmet..
I think we need a dominant wideout, maybe past his peak that can show the youngun’s how to physically prepare for the game and bring it.
I agree a Boldin would be nice, but if it’s TO and you’re coach singletary I don’t think you say “no thanks we’re covered.”
Umm
maybe youre right on all the other stuff… but T.O. is the king of dropped passes. Not sure he is an upgrade over all the young guys we have considering all the possible baggage brings to destroy a team
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
T.O. has always been one of the best receivers in the game, even with his inconsistent hands.
Even at his age, he’s got the speed to outrun all but the fastest corners. He has a great understanding of defenses and he runs polished, disciplined routes. He is – and this is the most important part – an absolutely phenomenal athlete that can rack up the YAC as well as anyone in the NFL.
Saying that T.O. isn’t an upgrade over guys like Morgan, Hill and Jones shows either an incredible bias or a downright lack of knowledge of the game of football.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
TO also blocks as well as any WR on the field
I’ve always appreciated that about him. He loves to play physical ball, unlike many WRs.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
It shows that I know what I am talking about
TO is cancer and drops a ton of passes. He’s not good for the directtion this team is going and I seriously doubt Singletary will want a “Me 1st” type of guy being brought in.
Has it slipped your memory that he destroyed the team before? He could do it on his way out just as easily. I am 100% against the remote thought that TO could be Niners again. We are mocing on to bigger and better. TO needs to stay in our past as he has earned it. You could not be anymore right when you say I have an incredible bias…
The people that are clamoring for him right now would be the 1st people calling for his head when he proved for the 2nd time that he is a plague. No way, no thanks.
Again, he WAS a great receiver in his day…but he is washed up.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Has it slipped your memory that he destroyed the team before?
Mooch lost the team well before Owens put his own headline on the paper over a year later under the Dennis Erickson-era club that was constructed from the blueprint of Fail.
Terrell Owens didn’t destroy the team – he was just one of the few guys that was open to talking about the team being destroyed.
All he did in Philly was put up phenomenal numbers and help lead a team to the Superbowl. His rift with McNabb wasn’t one-guy-against-the-world…the entire locker room was divided, and he just happened to be the voice of the “other half”. Even in Dallas, he got a lot more of the blame than he ever deserved – that team always had (and still has) more talent than desire to win.
Look, I’m not saying T.O. is a stand-up guy, an ideal veteran teammate or a role model. I’m saying he’s a damned good football player who speaks his mind. He’s been fine in Buffalo when the media has been trying their hardest to bait him into saying something that can be twisted, and he’s done nothing but make plays when they’ve given him the ball.
I, personally, think he’d be a good fit, and I know that he’d make us a better football team.
As always, you’re free to hold grudges and spout irrational bias.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
irratational bias?
Why because it disagrees with your opinion. TO would ruin this team. I doubt it’s going to happen anyway…so it’s pointless to even debate with you about it when and if it does.
Just because he is an ex-Niner does not mean I have to like the guy. He is a horrible role model for kids in the way he plays, he’s a me-1st type of player but uses the excuse competitor to cover it up. Nothing about Owens says “team-player”. That’s what Singletary is trying to bring to this team.
He is up there in age and personally, if we spend that type of money even on a 1-year deal, I’d rather bring in a guy who can help for a longer period of time.
I think last night proved that we can win without him… so again, probable that it’s not going to materialize just because TO “says so”
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Excuses excuses
is all I see in that rebut there
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
"Saying that T.O. isn’t an upgrade over guys like Morgan, Hill and Jones shows either an incredible bias "
He’ll turn 37 next year.
Five years ago, absolutely, he was head and shoulders better than those guys are now.
Next year?
NFL players aren’t known for aging gracefully. When they lose it, they lose it fast.
So is VD
and we still love him. If VD hung onto every ball that was thrown to him we might have a winning record.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
VD
was a young pup who was groomed and trained; his attitude has virtually been removed
…the thing that TO has shown everywhere he has been, is that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
Do you honestly think this would be a good player to put in Alex Smith’s ear all the time when he just needs to be focusing on his own game to get better?
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
quite simply
i dont want him on the team because as a player, hes not what we need on the roster. With Bruce and Battle gone, Crabs is our #1 and like some mentioned earlier in this post, Morgan/Hill/Jones will fight for the 2 and 3 spots. Thats 4 recievers, and the 5th should be a speedster who can return punts and can come in the regular offense as a deep threat. I think they may draft this speedy #5 and unlike this season, keep 5 wrs on the roster next season, or possibly keep 6 with Ziegler in as well.
Morgan/Hill/Jones will fight for the 2 and 3 spots. Thats 4 recievers…
I don’t get it. Your argument is that we should not pursue a huge upgrade in a playmaker like Owens and instead allow four scrubs that would hardly see the field on most other NFL teams to compete for a starting position opposite Crabtree?
That’s just foolish.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
I think Morgan is a pretty good #3 guy
I think he would make a great slot receiver with Crabtree #1 and Owens #2
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Team cancer
No thanks.
Not to mention he drops more passes than Crabtree and Morgan combined. Sure he makes a big play every once in a while. But is it really worth it? The guys we have now can do what he is currently doing on the field without the drama. Sing won’t contain T.O. and he will shred that locker room through the media.
TO = QB Killer… Alex is just getting started, the last thing he needs is TO barking stuff in his ear
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Sure he makes a big play every once in a while. But is it really worth it?
Yes.
The guys we have now can do what he is currently doing on the field…
No.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
That is ludacrious
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Crabtree: 7 games-32 receptions-406 yards 12.7 a catch- 1TD No baggage
Morgan: 12 games- 36 receptions-404 yards 11.2 a catch- 2TD’s No baggage
Davis: 12 games- 63 receptions- 781 yards 12.4 a catch- 10 TD’s No baggage
We already have a #1 in Davis and the other 2 guys are on their way up. Especially Michael Crabtree.
Owens: 13 games- 45 receptions- 705 yards 15.7 a catch- 4 TD’s AND MAJOR BAGGAGE-(37 years old)- started a decline over the last 4 or 5 years in productivity. Locker room cancer, Media hound, etc.
There is no reason for a plague like Terrell “T.O.” Owens to come to S.F. and ruin an up and rising team and franchise like he already did once before.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I don't know if you've noticed...
But Josh Morgan isn’t very good at football. The fact that the coaching staff considers him to be head and shoulders above Bruce, Battle, Hill and Jones should tell you a thing or two about how unimpressive the rest of our receiving corps is.
I understand that you don’t watch much football outside of 49ers games, but all of our offensive players not named Gore, Crabtree or Davis are only marginally better than waiver wire scrubs.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
LOL
Your comments are a joke
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I have the NFL ticket
and watch plenty of football outside the 49ers for YEARS. I watch a ton of college football as well… Probably on any given weekend I watch 10+ hours of football. Of course that does not make anyone an expert… what does make someone knowledgable though is perception, and your perception is extremely tweaked if you think that TO is just a lamb in wolves clothing and has just got a bad wrap for the last 10 years. There is a reason the media has exploited him: He is exploitable for his ACTIONS.
typically when people call others out and make mindless claims of others not watching enough football (as their best argument), then they themselves are plenty guilty of that themselves.
Your assumptions are just as bad as drummers and sometimes I think you are drummer. drummer is always bragging about having 5 computers so there could be different IP’s. Provoking, provoking, provoking… Some people just often never have anything real to say other than:
I understand that you don’t watch much football outside of 49ers games
Not going to waste my time with irresponsible comments like yours and drummers anymore
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
First off...
I didn’t mean that comment as an insult. I thought I remembered you saying in a previous debate that you “don’t watch many other games around the league, so you can’t say for sure…” If I’m mistaken, and have confused you for someone else, then I apologize. Again, that was meant as a sympathetic comment, not a provocation.
There is a reason the media has exploited him: He is exploitable for his ACTIONS.
I disagree. T.O. is exploitable for his words. His biggest (and for all we observers know, only) crime is that he’s got a big mouth. Unless he’s leaving dead animals in people’s lockers or getting into fights on the practice field, then I don’t see how you can argue otherwise.
T.O. wants the ball – like all receivers do. Is that a bad thing? His decisions to bring in-house problems to the media enlighten us fans to problems that are already going on in the clubhouse, but that in no way means that he is responsible for bringing those problems about. You’ll notice that T.O. is quiet when things are going well – when the team is winning and everyone is happy – and it’s not like people aren’t putting microphones in his face at those times. If you keep a clean house and keep the locker room as a whole intact, then you’ve got no reason to worry about T.O. talking to the media about discord and discontent.
Once again, I’m not trying to paint Owens into the role of innocent victim – I’m only saying that he is likely very far from being anything that might resemble the “cancer” that the media makes him out to be to sell magazines.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
I totally agree
Look at someone like Cedric Benson. He doesn’t have a reputation as a big mouth or locker room distraction, but he played horrible last year so he could get out of that team and he got his wish, yet he doesn’t get any grief for that in the media.
Same thing with every other player that plays badly so they’ll get traded.
TO has never dogged it on the field and he’s always kept himself in perfect football shape.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
How many teams have to be happy to let someone go before you stop blaming the media?
Right now, Owens has left three teams under bad circumstances, where the team didn’t want him back.
The Niners, The Eagles, and the Cowboys.
We’ll find out how Buffalo felts about him later. It’s possible that they’re perfectly happy with him. I certainly haven’t heard of any trouble, but I also don’t pay much attention to AFC cellar-dwellers. But let’s be honest: three teams have decided, after living with this guy, that they were better off without him.
That’s not just the media trying to sell magazines.
Like I said, I'm not absolving him of any and all responsibility.
But let’s be honest – no one on that 2003 49ers team wanted to be there. No one. And the situation he was in in Dallas was tense before he got there, and it remains tense now that he has left. That team had a lot of media coverage, a lot of strong personalities and a lot of reasons to be frustrated. Even in Philly, where I think he did play a large role in the rift on that team, it was something that involved 53 unhappy guys – not just T.O. against McNabb.
Keep in mind also that a very large reason that Owens has been traded or moved multiple times is because there has always been someone out there that has been more than willing to add him to their roster.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Also...
Owens has put up good numbers on an awful team that 1) is not designed to throw the ball, 2) has had coaching and playcalling troubles all year, and 3) has been without their (mediocre to begin with) starting QB for half of their games.
This isn’t a full argument, but just things that I think you may not be taking into account.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Why?
Owens is 36, an age at which you expect to see a receiver’s productivity drop drastically. Issac Bruce is only a year older, and we all saw how he hit the wall this year.
In other words, there is very little reason to think that Owens will be better than Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, and Jones. ANd even if he was MARGINALLY better than one of those guys next year, does it make sense to take reps away from the players who are our future at the WR position in favor of a guy who has, at most, one season left in him?
In other words, the best case scenario is that Owens is a slight upgrade but retards the development of the players who will be here in 2-3 years when we’re ready to compete for a title.
Everybody is talking about him as if they could expect him to come in here and be a great receiver, a legitimate #1 guy who other defenses have to respect. But is there any reason to really think that’s the case any more?
Next year he’ll be the same age Bruce is this year, when Bruce’s performance fell off a cliff. He’ll be the same age Tim Brown was when Brown’s performance fell off a cliff … and both Bruce and Brown are players who were notable for their longevity.
Owens is a player who’s never given 100% effort when he wasn’t the focus of the offense. NO coach has been able to change that so far, so even if he’s NOT over the hill what makes you think Sing would be able to do what no other coach has done with him?
He is on pace for another 1000 yard season and thats with the Bills QBs, but your right he could hit the wall next year and his performance may drop off. I don’t think he would hinder the development of Morgan and Hill though. He may take away the reps but I’m sure he could teach them a few things.
I want me some Buster
So is Vernon Davis.
And Crabtree is damn close, given the number of games he played. (If you prorate out, he comes to 923 yards in a 16-game season … AS A ROOKIE).
And Morgan’s numbers aren’t bad, considered that he played the first several games on a team which didn’t really throw to the WRs, and then became the third WR for a few games when Crabs showed up.
This team doesn’t need old receivers.
Gotta say no to TO
focus on the O-Line or a return man or pass rush in the offseason/draft. Not saying TO wouldnt make our WR corps better, just rather continue moving forward instead of trying to literally "recapture’ the past
NINERS 4 LIFE
Hmmm No
It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. It is already starting to feel like there’s not enough footballs to go around on the offense.
- Vernon Davis is having a break-out year. If he stops getting targeted as much next season there’s going to be problems.
- Crabtree is a rookie now, and he’s saying all the right things. Is a WR with his talent and resume going to stay quiet next season? I’m really happy with his outlook this season, but there’s still a good chance he will become a diva.
- We still have a young developing QB in Alex Smith. This isn’t Peyton Manning and the Colts’ spread offense here, this is a wacky offense in transition. Our fragile Alex Smith would be T.O.‘s favorite whipping boy if things don’t go his way.
- We still have a young, conservative head coach in Singletary who will try to run smash-mouth, run-heavy football again once we have a healthy line. It’s what he really wants to do.
- And we still have that guy named Frank Gore who needs touches. He’s still the best player we have on that side of the ball.
This just isn’t the right situation for Terrell Owens right now. He’d be better off joining a team like the Saints or the Chargers.
"We Deserve"
You make a valid point
but don’t the Saints and Chargers also have a problem with “not enough footballs” to give to all their weapons?
Anyway, I think TO will help the team in the short term, but don’t think it’s worth the long-term damage in developing the current young’uns.
"They Still Love To Hate Me"
Bring The T.O show back to where it started,
can you imagine an offense with T.O, Crabtree, Davis, and Gore. Id feel bad for other D’s trying to find a way to stop that.
Get Ya Pop corn Ready.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iPEJUCfRfI&feature=fvw
GeT Ya Popcorn ReadY
The Last Names Ever, First Names Greatest.
One way to stop that:
Run past the turnstile that is the 49ers offensive line.
[hopefully the FO will be able to patch it up.]
Only TO is not the same player
he used to be. People are remembering the TO that used to play for us when he first started before he became “T.O.” and thats the problem.
He has like 45 catches in 13 games and has had about 90 targets dropping about half probably.
T.O. = Take a “time out” for yourself and really think about the scenario. Do we really want him to get in to Alex Smith’s head like he has every other QB he has been matched up with? Do you really want him to after a loss start bad mouthing the team and franchise through the media saying things like “if I would have had more passes thrown my way we woulda won”? Do you really want Singletary to have to take time out of what he should be focusing on to have to try and repremand TO for his “Me 1st- diva persona”? There are way too many cons than pros in this scenario.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
9 drops, the same as VD
45 catches, 705 yards, 15.7 yards per catch.
VD 63 catches, 781 yards, 12.4 yards per catch.
MC 32 catches, 406 yards, 12.7 yards per catch.
TO is actually out performing his YPC average for his career. has more yards on fewer looks than VD, who is supposedly having a career year.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
“I would rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we got to do something else, rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be part of this team. Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can’t do it.” — 49ers coach Mike Singletary.
T.O.’s checklist
Jeff Garcia
Donovan McNabb
Tony Romo
Trent Edwards
Did I miss anyone?
Next Alex Smith? No thank you… there’s plenty of other vets to persue besides TO that do not destroy teams and chemistry.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
TO will not sell out
to be part of the “team”…never has, never will
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Garrison Hearst and the '98 New York Jets disagree.
You may be mistaking Owens for Randy Moss. T.O. will run his mouth for days on end, but there’s never been anyone to question his dedication to helping the team win in any way possible.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
really?
the guy broke his ankle and came back a lot earlier then he should have to play in the Super Bowl and was arguably the best Eagle on the field that day. Where I come from that’s called dedication.
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
I remember that ...
I also remember everybody talking about how surprising that was, since it was so different from how he had been behaving earlier that year.
But this was a while ago. My memory may be imperfect here.
What I do remember is that Owens took jabs at Garcia in SF, McNabb in Philly, and Romo in Dallas. He didn’t get along with any of them.
You're funny
I’ll give you McNabb.
TO didn’t throw Tony Romo under the bus—if anything Romo and his teammates threw TO under the bus. He didn’t say a word about Trent Edwards who was benched because he was a horrible QB. Until the last couple of years in San Fran he was great for this team.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
His track record speaks enough for itself
Production wise…there are guys we can get (without the baggage) besides TO.
He’s averaging like 3 1/2 catches a game.
Crabtree is averaging 4 1/2 as a rookie
VD is averaging 5 1/2 or so per game
To me it is not worth all the drama
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
His catches per game
is because of the lousy offense he’s in. He’s still more productive with those catches than any of our guys.
15.7 yards per catch for TO, 12.4 for VD.
You say his production is lousy this year but he’s only 76 yards behind VD, and VD is supposedly having a career year.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
The Bills were 1 game shy of a .500 record. They pretty much had all the same personel as last year and were looking to be on the up and up.
Then they sign TO….
The team will be lucky to finish with a 6-11 record.
A coach was fired a QB benched…this is not coincedence that everywhere he goes there are major problems when he gets unhappy. That is a fact.
Every year previous to his departure, QB’s have had their worst years. He gets in people’s heads. Alex Smith is finall building confidence. What kind of impact do you honestly thing TO would have on Smith? A positive one? Doubtful.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Jauron was a lousy coach..
Who should have been fired after last season. Edwards was benched because he isn’t very good.
TO has nothing to do with either of those situations.
Well, we're waiting....
Yes he does drummer
Absolutely he does…
It is not a coincedental thing that happens everywhere he goes. Edwards was a young QB who coming out of last year had some potential. His comp% was 66% last year. If he didn’t think he was going to be better, they would have got one in the draft last year. Maybe Jauron wasn’t great but last year he seemingly had them on track possibly. They were 7-9 the two years previous to this and needed a dynamic player to turn the corner. Then they decide to take a chance on TO….the rest is already written.
He is a franchise plague and most everybody that has the screws tightened in properly know it…it’s crystal clear.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Do you just look at a w-l record...
and forget everything else? BUF lost eight of their last ten games last season. Edwards was 11-10 td to int in 14 games.
TO wasn’t on that team.
Well, we're waiting....
Ok
so you hate Jauron and love TO…point noted
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Does it matter?
It’s obvious what you’re doing here and I am not going to involve myself in it
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Pointing out facts..
Is what I’m doing here, thus, why you should not get involved with this.
Well, we're waiting....
ok
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Do you...
… honestly believe that Buffalo’s offense would have been any different without T.O.? Heck, it seems like you’re even insinuating that Buffalo’s offense may have been even better without T.O.
There is no way to prove they would have been better off with or without him without being in that locker room
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
But
his track record indicates that teams get rid of him fast.
He’s been with 3 different teams in the last 5 years. If he was that worth it, then explain to me why teams are saying adios TO?
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
And yes
the NIners had him for 8 years or whatever it was for anyone that might use that as a rebutal. However, Jerry kept him in line for the earlier part of his career. But when Jerry left, it was only a couple years after that (if that) that TO’s head started swelling more than the balloons in the Macy’s Day Parade.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
And you...
… don’t believe in people getting older or changing?
T.O. is clearly not the T.O. he has been for the past half decade or so this year. There’s no telling if that’s just at his agent’s request/suggestion, or if he’s genuinely growing up, but I don’t see the hurt in signing him for relatively little guaranteed.
If he shows to be a cancer still or if he doesn’t have it, the team can cut him with little to no impact to their future. If he even shows up with performances reminiscent to the T.O. of even just a couple years ago, then he’d be worth it.
Who better to judge his character than Singletary? (Just to be clear: I’m not suggesting Singletary change him.)
I would just rather
bring in a new guy, or younger guy with upside and not be on the downward side of his career.
I didn’t even really want Bruce cause I thought the same thing about him.
I beleive in bring in vets but not guys who are at the very tail end of their careers.
If it was me, I would rather not even bother with the potential headache. I get the point about low-risk, high reward…but for me, I just think people are who they are despite of their age. He should have already been “grown-up” in his late twenties or early 30’s.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I understand...
… bringing in younger and potential. I just think that youth could also compete against him. Signing Owens shouldn’t preclude the team from taking fliers on younger players that could be better. I hope that’s the case with ANY position.
Just to clarify, in case there’s confusion: I’m not advocation signing T.O.. I just don’t think it’d be a travesty by any means as long as the front office doesn’t stop looking at potentially better WRs because they suddenly signed a player who’s possibly on his way to the HOF.
Enough young guys already
The 49ers have too many young guys at WR. They need a guy who can actually play and barometer for the young guys to reach and overthrow.
Sure
as long as that guy is not TO. Isaac Bruce is there now, if you’re bringing in a guy for that reason, then TO is not the guy it should be
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
So we can pass blame on all of our wideouts that had subpar stats
With JTO, that situation in Buffalo is not on T.O.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Your hate for TO is blinding you
Last year Romo played in 13 games. His stats through those 13 games were 450 attempts, 276 completions, 61.3% completion rate, 3,448 yards. His stats through 13 games this year are nearly identical. 444 attempts, 276 completions, 62.2% completion rate, 3, 574 yards. Last year was hardly his worst year ever (that was 2006).
Jeff Garcia’s worst year as a QB certainly wasn’t the year Owens left. Garcia played 13 games in 2003, with 392 attempts, 225 completions, and an accuracy of 57.5%, with 2704 yards through the air. The only other season with the Niners where Garcia played 13 games the stats were almost identical. That was 1999 when he had 375 attempts, 225 completions, an accuracy rate of %60, and a total of 2544 yards. Again, nearly identical.
That’s two of your scenarios down. Lets see if we can debunk the other two as well.
I’ll give you Donovan McNabb. 2005 was his worst year as a pro—but that might just be because he only played 9 games that year, or is it TO’s fault that McNabb didn’t play? 2004 was his first year there and guess what? That was one of McNabb’s best years as a pro. He had his highest completion percentage 64%, he threw for 3875 yards (his highest yard total is this year and he’s at 3900), his average yards per throw was 8.3, which is his second best average (his best is 8.4).
Three down.
That leaves us with Trent Edwards who shouldn’t have ever been a starter in the league. He’s never played a full season, but lets look at his 2008 season. 14 games, 374 attempts, 245 completions, 2700 yards. This year he’s played 7 games, had 181 attempts, 109 completions, for 1170 yards. His yard per throw has gone from 7.2 to 6.5—but his stats for 7 games are essentially half of what they were for 14 last year and the Bills team this year is a much worse one than last year’s.
So, of all those QBs you mentioned only one of them has seen a drop off in numbers and that QB was hurt for part of the year and benched by his coach.
Maybe you ought to rethink your position.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I think your admiration of him is blinding you
He is a problem child. Period.
He is not a good fit for this team. Period.
And I do dislike him and cannot appreciate anything he stands for. Period.
He can have all his records and all that. And all his arrogance over the years has really made me care for him less and less everytime his mouth opens.
He said it himself in the above statement that if it werent for Jerry, he would have never been the WR he is today. Rice gives him that gift of knowledge and Owens just abused the hell out of it instead of being a humble player.
Another thing that bothers me about these comments that he made in the article is that the season is not even officially over and he is already talking about bailing. Real humble guy and team player there.
I will not rethink anything about TO ever even if you are using partial season stats to make a case for him. This is one of those things the media has not reported ficticously. I watched his show too…and just because TO says all the stuff is made up about him, I am not buying that act one bit.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Now the truth comes out
I can handle you not liking him personally. But to try and argue that his QBs had the worst years of their careers with him, or that he’s declined as a receiver, etc., etc.—that simply isn’t true.
I can accept that you think his personality is a bad fit. I can accept that you have animosity towards him—but the man produces on the field.
The question you have to ask is if the on field production outweighs any offfield issues that he might bring. I think so—I think he’s a different TO than was in Philly. You obviously think differently
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
But what has lead you to beleive
he is different than when in Philly? I am curious because he has not done anything differently.
Even in the press conferences this year when he has “tried” to not be himself by saying things like, “I’m just going with the plays called” the real TO was still in there somewhere saying “we lost cause I didn’t have 20 passes thrown my way”
And who really knows how crazy or possibly even distant to his “teammates” he gets in the locker room cause we don’t get to see that part. We only get to see him in the media saying poor me, poor me.
Alex Smith is just a real humble guy, if you get a guy like TO chattering in his ear, I just cannot see that working out in favor for the team…and more importantly Alex Smith.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
How can you say that "the real TO was buried"
you have to take it at face value.
I think he’s been a model citizen in Buffalo. I think he was good in Dallas. If there were lockeroom problems they weren’t because of him. In fact Dallas’ woes continued until Miles Austin burst onto the scene.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Face value was the expression written all over his face. Words are just words
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
If it's not his production
in why teams are letting him go, and thats not the reason in why teams are washing their hands of him like you stated, then what else could it be? General purpose? It really has to be one or the other in why teams are quick to get rid of him.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
McNabb had his best season to date
Witten had his best seasons with TO and admitted it verbally. My thing is I’d rather see our young widouts get the chance. If T.O. wouldn’t have left the way he did I’d be open to hm coing back, but (site decrum) that Site decorum.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Well correct me if I'm wrong
The reason why he’s laying low is cuz he only has a 1 year contract with the crappy bills.
Maybe
I doubt he’ll ever get a multi-year contract again so anything next season will also be for only 1 year too. I hope he realized that he has a great shot at the HOF and all he has to do is cool his antics a little bit (although I’m certain he’ll get in anyway), be more like Ochocinco if he still craves that attention without alienating teammates or coaches.
One thing is for sure though, the man can still play. If he wants to be a 49er again and will take a 1 year deal that is less than what he’s making this year, then I don’t see why not. Since it’s only a 1-year contract with no much money guaranteed, if he acts up again then just cut him and hasta la vista baby.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Dec 14, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
True
But he was well behaved in his final two seasons with Dallas as well. I think he has matured a bit in recent years. Many reporters have attempted to get him going with “trap” question and he hasn’t taken the bait. I just think an offense with Smith, Gore, Coffee, Davis, Walker, Crabtree, Owens and Morgan has a chance to be one of the leagues best especially if we continue to run the offensive scheme we have seen the last two games
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 14, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
"But he was well behaved in his final two seasons with Dallas as well."
No, he wasn’t. He complained about ball distribution, and, most telling, they were happy to see him go.
TO was the scapegoat in Dallas
That lockeroom was not his creation. He was loyal to his QB and didn’t create problems.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
yeah seriously has anyone watched Dallas this year?
they don’t look that much different from the team that had T.O. It’s fairly obvious T.O. wasn’t the only problem there.
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
I don't think anybody ever said TO was the "only" problem there.
The point is that the organization felt that getting rid of him was the right thing to do.
And, c’mon, it’s not like we’re a great team if only we can get that WR position sorted out.
People Are forgetting one thing
If Crabtree has played from week 1 he would be on pace for well over 1,000 yards and about 80 catches. If we can have two WR’s and a TE capable of gaining 1,000 yards as well as a RB capable of doing so then of course this offense will mold into one of the best in the league. I say bring Owens in but with the understanding that he is the #2 WR
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 14, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply actions
TO - Yes bring him back
TO is still a threat, he would and does attract attention, and things would free up more for Gore, Crab, VD and Morgan. And even now, no one is as big a threat after they catch the ball as TO still is. I think to have him here for a couple of seasons would add a dimension that we need to compliment the threats we have.
I can’t say I liked the TO rant on the sideline in that Viking’s game, or the tiff with Garcia. But I also saw a guy that felt like if he was involved he could change the game. Come on Jerry had his moments too, just not to the same degree. I’d much rather that attitude than the one I’ve seen from people like say…Randy Moss who seems to take plays…and now games off when he feels like it. Look at it another way…Jerry learned from Roger Craig. TO learned from Jerry. And TO can still help Crab and Davis especially…can’t some of us see a little TO in Vernon? Who better to help him develop the talent he has?
Not to say you bring him back and annoint him as #1, but as 1 of 4 guys that can contribute to the overall offense. And yes, it exercises some old deamons and maybe TO helps set this team up to make that next leap into the play-offs and beyond. And yeah of course you’d love to get Marshall or VJack…but they will command crazy money and we don’t need that. We can get TO for a reasonable amount and not break the bank or hurt any egos. So I say, yes, if it can be worked out, bring TO back!
He Has To Know
He isn’t going to come in here and be the #1 guy. It’s not like our #1 receiver is what it used to be (Johnnie Morton and Darrell Jackson) we have a true #1 receiver and Owens has to understand this.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 14, 2009 11:29 AM PST reply actions
Is he going to come in here and be our #2 guy?
No, probably not. He’ll be behind Davis and Crabtree as our primary offensive targets.
Now, here’s the fun question:
Would he come in here and be our #3 guy?
Morgan has already shown us that he’s better than one 37-year-old, used-to-be-great receiver. Should we ask him to prove that again? Morgan was a great sport and teammate – helping Crabs even when it resulted, in the short term, of pushing Morgan to the bench. Isn’t it a little insulting to make him prove it again? I would rather repay Morgan (who’ll be with this team for a long time if we do it right) with respect rather than shove him on the bench in favor of a guy who may well not be any better than him next year.
Want more fun?
Would Owens come in here and be our #4 guy?
Hill seems to be on the verge of “getting it” and brings a skill set that works well with our other receivers (particularly, the ability to stretch the field). Do we put him on the bench, and thus not learn what he’s really capable of and retard his development? Owens will probably be better in absolute terms than Hill, but will he work as well with our other receivers as Hill does? Owens skills set is probably closest to Crabtree’s, which, again raises issues even if he doesn’t hit the wall for another year or two.
TO -Well at some point...
Yes you want to reward hard work and good behavior. But these are professional athletes and it comes down to who can help the team win. Yes Morgan and Hill both earned respect and playing time. But million dollar question in sports is always: would you rather be a marginal starter on a 7-9 team, or a role player on an 11-5 team that makes the play-offs and contends for, and perhaps wins a title? They could all learn a little from TO, which is the same reason Bruce was brought back. And I’m not ready to say that Morgan now is better than TO now. The man still has more wr td’s the past 3-4 yrs than anyone I believe. He’s still got a couple years. Maybe not as dominant as he was, but still better than most.
7-9 vs 11-5
If you were talking about a player who took us from outside-looking-in to championship contention, I would have a different opinion. You take risks to win a championship. You mortgage your future to win a championship, if you have to, because that’s the goal.
But there is no reasonable way to look at TO and think he transforms us in that way. At age 37, where he will be next year at this time, his skills should be substantially declining. He will be, at best, a marginal upgrade over Morgan at the 2nd WR spot.
Marginally upgrading your 2nd WR spot does not get you four wins.
Philedelphia added TO in 2004 and gained 1 win. Dallas added TO in 2006 and gained 0 wins. Buffalo added TO this year and will probably end up LOSING two more games this year, although it’s not set in stone yet.
Therefore, talking about adding TO turning us into a sure thing for the playoffs or a title contender makes no sense at all. There is no evidence to justify such a claim.
“Better than most” does not necessarily imply an upgrade for the 49ers, because one of the few areas on the field where we are actually pretty good is at WR.
I always liked Owens
But I think he’s done.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Hmmm
I would go with Boldin first. If we cant get Boldin or somebody like Vincent Jackson or Lee Evans then lets go with T.O. but give him a 1 year deal with a team option for a 2nd year if he keeps his mouth shut and just produces. Say what u want but Crabtree, Davis, Owens, Gore in the back sounds pretty darn good.
"They Still Love To Hate Me"
TO wants to finish where he started and he wants to end it with a bang.
GeT Ya Popcorn ReadY
The Last Names Ever, First Names Greatest.
blah
there’s no way t.o. will end up back in frisco. we don’t need him. he complained so much when he was with us so let him retire in dallas or philly. eff him.
"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai
Let's go after him
I say yeah, T.O. would bolster the offense. One word. “SINGLETARY”. Coach Singletary would be the medicine that Andy Reid, Dick Juaron, Nor Wade Phillips, and Jerry Jones could provide. He would learn some discilpline for once in his illustrious career.
I say everyone deserves a second shot. Sign him for 2 years. I am willing to bet $1000 he is hungry for a championship. And guess what? That’s exactly where we are headed in 2010. Two first round picks. Overloaded talent in FA, and the draft. T.O. could instantly make us a threat to go Dancing with the Stars..Peace…Stelf Bombz..
Watching Crabtree play
he looks like a young raw TO. seems to play the same physical yards after catch type of game. I bet TO sees that too. Why you think he was talking about his salad days w/ Jerry Rice, et al. The man knows his time is about up and prob wants to mentor the young buck. Cause anyone who has seen Crabs play has got to admit the kid has got ridiculous potential.
LOCK UP CRABTREE
The 49ers have got to LOCK UP Crabtree soon.I know Crabtree is a 49er for the next 5 years.But they have to make Crabtree a 49er for life!We cannot let Crabtree get to the point where he’s gonna want to test free agency one day.If that would ever happen.Where Crabtree was to test the free agent waters.You know where Crabtree would end up.He would end up in Dallas.We have to LOCK UP Crabtree a Forty Niner for life!
by Smallville49er on Dec 15, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yes we need to lock him up
But he still gots 5 more years on his contract let’s wait a little longer. Plus when crabtree sees how good this team is becoming and were a playoff team next year he is going to love this team more and more and will gladly sign back with the niners come time to re-negociate his contract
by 49ersAllTheWay on Dec 16, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
ive said we should do that
with crabs andy lee and willis
sign crabs to a 15 year contract worth like 150 million and willis to like 15 years 130 million, and andy lee to 9 years like 20 million
get them stowed away
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 16, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
WHY
would we get reggie bush AND cj spiller?
if reggie was to be our KR/PR/change of pace back, and spiller would be that too… we could do an epic trade though
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
Umm
I was just throwing that out there… That would just be insane, we’ll just turn Reggie into a receiver.. ha
actually i just thought about your scenario
if we got reggie bush or sproles (FA next year; both fix our PR/change of pace back problem), berry, a pass-rusher (like merriman or peppers) and a top o-lineman (like mcneil), we wouldn’t even need that second #1 pick
we could trade it down to like #20 or so (whether they take spiller or not) and take someone like jerry hughes in a position where he is most likely to be taken, and get a 2nd or 3rd round pick as well (depending on how far down the team trades)
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
Bush is a RETURN MAN! We need that badly!
"Bar None!" - William Floyd
by maveric_87 on Dec 16, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Salary Cap????
We should be more consevative when it comes to going out and tryna buy a Super Bowl. Remember 1994. We went out, and got Deon Sanders, Ken Norton, Charles Haley, and Co…We are just now rebounding from that bought Super Bowl. Let’s keep our team together first, and foremost. Let’s go out, and address our needs.
S.Merriman,Yes. Reggie Bush absolutely. I would go get Julius Peppers out the gate…Let the Draft do what it do…Peace..Stelf Bombz..
by STELF BOMBZ on Dec 15, 2009 8:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Dam,,, buying the Super Bowl
Merriman, Reggie Bush, Julius Peppers plus the draft….
That sounds like buying a super bowl to me.,.
by GMARCH on Dec 15, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
GMARCH
It dawned on me that Peppers will be a FA after I gave S.Merriman a shout out. Out of them two I would go with Peppers. We caouldn’t afford both. By Buying a Super Bowl I simply meant lets not go add guys on the team for one year that we cannot afford to retain in the next year. Every year we pay guys through FA. We have to buy the players in that regard. I just wish we get guys that will stick around for another Dynasty. To do that we must keep them on the team for a few years together…Peace Ba Beat Ba Beat…That’s all Folks…Stelf Bombz…
Get T.O. back in a 49ers uniform
I would love to see Owens back in San Fran.We had Bruce at an old age and Owens is more of an explosive player than Bruce.I think with Singeltary coaching Owens,Owens will behave.Look at what Owens did with Davis.Owens has 2 more seasons in him.I say bring him in and start him to compliment Crabtree.Crabtee can have a 21 catch game on the day that’s Owens day.Seriously,I think the 49ers should sign Owens next year.Owens can maybe win a Superbowl finally in SF.
by Smallville49er on Dec 15, 2009 11:18 PM PST reply actions
Show is over
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Dont b a Hata
The Shows Far from over
GeT Ya Popcorn ReadY
The Last Names Ever, First Names Greatest.
by Italian King on Dec 17, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
He's 37... has a sub par 45 catches..etc.
It’s over
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Say "NO" to T.O.
The 49ers are starting to feel their groove now and don’t need any ‘primadonnas’ to ruin the offensive quality of the group. It’s a fact that TO doesn’t go for balls that are under thrown to him, he just lets the defense intercept the ball. How many times have you seen his big mouth complaining on the sidelines yelling at his teammates? Oh, San Francisco, don’t have a memory breakdown seeing his past and present ‘selfish’ acts, when we need team players like Issac Bruce, Josh Morgan, Michael Crabtree, Jason Hill, Arnez Batle, and Brandon Jones. To the Owner Mr. York — “Say NO to T.O.!!!”
What if he had a contract where he could be cut at any time?
and his pay would be pro-rated and terminated if he is cut during the season for any reason at Singletary’s sole discretion?
That doesn't address the question of whether he'll actually improve us.
DVOA has him rated slightly above Morgan and Crabtree, but the difference is small enough that if they improve at all (as expected for young players) and if he declines at all (as is expected for old players) they’ll pass him.
Crabtree yes,
Morgan is a pretty average receiver. On the other hand, Morgan is a very good blocker and team player. I can see it either way. As you say, maybe he (Owens) is not that good anymore, and there is the possibility of TO disrupting team chemistry (or improving it).
Well, I was just going by DVOA.
And I’ll be honest. I was shocked by how bad Owen’s DVOA is. I haven’t watched him play much this year, but just based on his number of catches and yards, I had to think he was doing something pretty good. DVOA says otherwise, so I suspect he’s dropping a lot of passes or something.
His DVOA is -13.4%. This is after being -5.7% last year and +28% the year before that. This represents a staggering drop-off. (28% would, this year, have him as a top 5 receiver). This is in line with what you’d expect for an older player, and is an even more dramatic example of rapid-performance fall-off than I expected. (Although he was only +10% the year before that. I don’t have access to the earlier archive so it’s hard for me to tell how much of an abberation the 27% was).
DYAR paints a similar picture. He was +448 two years ago, and is negative now.
Now, these stats aren’t the be-all end-all, but they make a pretty compelling argument that he is not the player we all remember.
As for TO possibly improving team chemistry, I gotta ask: what’s in the pipe, and can I have some?
Statistical comparison fallacy
I really don’t think it makes any sense to compare a receiver’s DYAR and DVOA across seasons especially when that receiver changes to a run-heavy offense. You really need to put those stats in context. Lee Evans’ statistical output has also dropped off, but would you call him any less of a receiver or that he’s done for his career? Almost everyone on the Bills has dropped off a little statistically compared to last year except for obviously the pass defense.
When it comes to arguments against TO, please just stick with the personality issues. There are plenty of talented receivers up for free agency next year that I would love to have. Wouldn’t mind welcoming Kevin Walter or Lance Moore.
I wouldn't mind Antonio Bryant either
But I guess he was too much of a personality problem for our team for anyone to want him, despite his quality play.
I honestly don't know exactly how Football Outsiders calculates DVOA for receivers
But I THINK it’s independent of the play-calling. That is to say, Owens’ 10-yard routes are compared to other player’s 10-yard routes.
A player can have a very high DVOA with a few touches, if he does better with those touches than other players do. In Owens case, that means when you throw a pass which you’d expect an average receiver to get 10 yards with, you’re only getting 8.6 yards, on average.
With DYAR, on the other hand, it’s a little more complicated – but negative is still bad. This is particularly the case because, in raw numbers, TO is still putting up a lot of catches and yards.
The fact that TO is getting a lot of catches and yards, but his DVOA and DYAR are bad, means that the problem isn’t that he’s on a run-first team – it means that he’s getting a lot of catches and not doing as much as he should with him.
Like many receiver stats, however, it’s quite probable that they’d improve if he had a better QB throwing the ball to him.
Furthermore, remember that our points of comparison aren’t just this year and two years ago. We also have last year, where TO was in the same system where he dominated two years ago, but instead he was a slightly-worse-than-average player.
Those things do matter
I do realize that DVOA is an average and that a player with fewer touches can have good production. But as you might intuit, with fewer “events” there is also a smaller margin of error when dealing with averages. In regards to his performance on just the Cowboys from 2006-2008 there were also mitigating factors. Between 2006 and 2007, I would not consider any significant dropoff in Owens performance. But in 2008, Romo broke his pinky in October, Brad Johnson came in for 3 games and Dallas sucked in December again but against good defenses, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Philly (all teams that made playoffs that year). Same system sure, but there were different circumstances. In 2008, Dallas offense ranked 22nd, it wasn’t just TO not performing. One qualitative argument that can be made is that now TO is gone, Miles Austin has emerged as the #1 receiver and Dallas is among the top teams in the league.
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