Official Updated NN Offseason Discussion Thread (12/15/09) [NEW]
by Drew Kerr on Dec 15, 2009 7:45 PM PST
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After an impressive win at home against the division rival Cardinals in week 14 of the 2009 Season, we have not quite flatlined just yet in our chances of making the playoffs. Even though there is still a bit of hope, it would literally take the Cards, Giants, Falcons, and Dallas totally falling apart; at least 3 out of the 4. Chances of that happening are running very thin. It is my opinion that there is very very little chance that the Cardinals will lose to either the Rams or the Lions, although stranger things have happened. The Rams will be lead by 3rd string rookie QB Keith Null and the Lions will be without their starting RB Kevin Smith. Our best chances will be through the wildcard now which still is a long-shot.
One of our draft picks went down and one went up this week. Alot has changed in both the AFC and NFC as far as standings go in the last few weeks.
This week smileyman and I will be taking a look at the top DE's and Guards in this weeks discussion that will be available in the upcoming season. We will also be taking a look at one division per conference (2 total) and the individual teams in the divisions indicidual position needs. This week smileyman will be doing the AFC East (Patriots, Dolphins, Jets, Bills) and I will be doing the NFC East (Eagles, Dallas, Redskins, Giants).
I just wanted to mention on a sidenote that Eric Berry has moved up to the #2 rated player coming out of college behind Suh in the 2010 Draft which means it is very likely that a team will draft him in the top 5. This stat is according to Todd McShay (ESPN Expert Draft Analyst). Now I'm not suggesting that that is definitely going to happen but it is certainly looking that way.
We all know that the 49ers could use some help and depth at the Guard positions. Last night both guards actually played very good. The words "very good" are rarely used and atatchde to David Baas' or Chilo Rachal's names. The continuity on the Offensive Line has certainly helped and they have been starting to play as more of a unit as of late. Even though they've played a bit better, I think it still needs to be addressed in the draft. I am sure I am not the only one. Usually I do my own write-ups for each position but for the Guards this week I am just going to link a few sites explaining the players values.
TOP 5 NCAA GUARDS
1. Mike Iupati (Idaho) 6'6" 330
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1137494
2. Mike Pouncey (Florida) 6'5" 320
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1273190
3. Mike Johnson (Alabama) 6'6" 303
Has played both Tackle and Guard for Alabama but will most likely be drafted as a Guard. Helped Mark Ingram with the other 4 guys become the 1st player in the history of University of Alabama win the Heisman Trophy.
http://blog.al.com/tide-source/2009/12/alabama_has_a_school-record_si.html
http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/johnson_mike00.html
4. Vladimir Ducasse (UMass) 6'5" 338
http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ducasse_vladimir00.html
5. Sergio Render (Virginia Tech) 6'3" 319
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/558723
Some of those at NN have been promoting drafting a pass rusher, a DE in the 1st round. While I do not agree completely due to the fact that we run a 3-4 defense and most often your LB's are your pass rushers, it's still an interesting concept. With what the defense is currently doing, it is hard to justify a 1st round pick here unless Derrick Morgan is there still for our 2nd pick. However, he in most mocks and draft boards is rated very high. I also personally like the players we have on this roster for this position and think we can maybe wait on this one here.
TOP 5 NCAA DEFENSIVE ENDS
1. Derrick Morgan (Georgia Tech) 6'4" 270
As far as Defensive Ends go here, all the pro's and just about everyone who has insightful knowledge have Morgan rated as the #1 DE in the 2010 Draft this year. You talk about a motor never shutting down and Derrick Morgan's name comes to mind. Very fast off the snap and great moves with his hands to break free.
2. Carlos Dunlap (Florida) 6'6" 290
Despite Dunlap's off the field issues, I think that if he can show enough genuine remorse and does as well as he can at the combine, his draft stock will stay put. His talent on the field is too much to pass up for one inmature mistake made off the field. The one thing we know about the NFL is they are very forgiving if players can honestly admit they made a mistake.
3. Greg Hardy (Ole Miss) 6'4" 265
Hardy had a wrist injury about midway through the 2009 season and has struggled to stay healthy in years past. However, the upside with Hardy is going to be too hard for NFL teams to ignore. The injuries will hurt his stock some but he in my opinion is rated within the top 5 Defensive Ends. Before his injury this season, he had already accumulated 5 sacks this season. He will have finished with 26.5 for his college career.
4. Jermaine Cunningham (Florida) 6'3" 253
On the other side of Dunlap, Cunningham made teams have to dread being hit from either side. The dynamic duo was the backbone of Florida's season this year. The rest of the entire defense thrived from both Dunlap and Cunningham's play. Much like Dunlap, Cunningham has had some off the field related issues as well early in his collegiate career, however, has not been in trouble since. It was kind of an inmature incident in getting in a physical fight over a bag of chips. Teams do consider thing like this but they also consider everything as a whole.
5. Ricky Sapp (Clemson) 6'4" 245
I had the privelage of being able to watch every Clemson game this season and besides C.J. Spiller and Jacoby Ford on offense, Ricky Sapp was definitely the most entertaining to watch in my opinion. I don't think he would fit very well in a 3-4 defense but he would be explosive in a 4-3. It is also a possibilty that he could be converted to an OLB. My guess is that he'll put on a bit of weight and stay at a DE but drafted by a team that runs a 4-3 defense.
Here now are the Guards and DE's that will be free agents assuming there is a new CBA put together by smileyman:
TOP 5 GUARD FREE AGENTS NFL
Jahri Evans
Age: 26
Seasons in the League: 4th season
Salary: $2.792 million
Status: UFA
Stats: Jahri Evans is one of the most talented guards in the NFL. New Orlean's line is ranked 2nd in run blocking and 4th in pass blocking according to Football Outsiders. Evans is a large part of that. Runs off the guard spot are three times as successful for New Orleans as are any other runs, which says a great deal about this talented player. He's only had 3 penalties this year (2 holding, 1 false start), and only allowed 1.5 sacks.
Summary: I'll be shocked if his contract isn't extended in the off-season. He was a RFA last year and the Saints gave him the highest RFA tender, so I'm pretty sure they want him around. If he manages to escape we need to go out and grab him.
Logan Mankins
Age: 27
Seasons in the League: 5th season
Salary: $1.4 million
Status: UFA
Stats: Although New England is not the terror that they once were they still have one of the best lines in the game. Their run blocking is ranked 7th according to FO and their pass blocking is 2nd best in the league (behind only Indy). Even though they're ranked 7th overall in run blocking, their run blocking from their guards is ranked number 5, and is a big part of their success. Logan Mankin has had a few penalties against him this year (3 holding and 3 false starts), but has only allowed 1 sack.
Summary: Mankins has said that he would like to extend his contract to keep playing for the Patriots. I'm sure that will get done, if not there will be lots of teams wanting to court him.
Eugene Amano
Age: 27
Seasons in the League: 6th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $1.2 million
Stats: Tennesee is not the juggernaut that they were last year, though they've rebounded the last half of the season. Their line is ranked 20th overall in the run, but surprisingly enough they're ranked 3rd in the pass. Amano has certainly done a great job this year. He's only had 4 penalties (all holding) and has only allowed 1/2 a sack (no, I don't know how you get credited for allowing just 1/2 a sack).
Summary: Tennessee has sure gotten good value out of Amano. They selected him in the 7th round with a compensatory pick, and he's played in all but one games since 2004. He worked his way into the starting lineup last year and has kept the job this year. He's a versatile lineman as he can also play center if need be and tackle (which he played in college). Good upgrade for us if TN doesn't resign him.
Harvey Dahl
Age: 28
Seasons in the League: 4th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $1.545 million
Stats: Atlanta is ranked 16th in run blocking but 7th overall in pass blocking. They have a difficult time running off guard though as they're ranked 28th in the league in that spot--so Dahl isn't necessarily an upgrade there for us (though those stats are still better than what we can manage). Dahl has allowed 2.5 sacks this year, but only one penalty which is very smart play.
Summary: Dahl would be an upgrade for us as well, though I don't know that it's a huge one. He's had an ankle injury that's kept him out of a few games, so it will be interesting to see how that impacts his offseason.
Chris Kuper
Age: 26
Seasons in the League: 4th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $1.01 million
Stats: Denver is ranked number 1 in run blocking. That's a pretty impressive feat, especially since they were ranked #1 last year too. Their pass blocking is very good as well--they're ranked 9th overall in pass blocking. Chris Kuper was drafted in the 5th round and worked his way into the starting spot in 2007. He has only 2 penalties on the year (1 holding, 1 false start), but has allowed 4 sacks.
Summary: Chris Kuper is a decent guard. However, the success of the Denver offensive line is based more on their coach than any individual talent that their linemen possess. Rick Dennison has coached the O-line since 2001 (he also served briefly as offensive coordinator). In that time his lines have had 3 number 1 seasons according to FO. He's only finished out of the top 10 once. I'd be wary about picking up a lineman from that system as I think they'll suffer the same fate that Denver's backs do when they leave.
Other linemen of note that are FA:
Richie Icognito who was just released by the Rams
David Baas
Mike Brisiel (who just suffered a serious foot injury)
For a comparison here are the stats for our offensive line:
Barry Sims: 2 penalties (both false starts). 1.5 sacks allowed
David Baas: 1 penalty (holding), 4 sacks allowed
Eric Heitman: 1 penalty (holding), .5 sack allowed
Chilo Rachal: 1 penalty (false start), 4 sacks allowed
Adam Snyder: 2 penalties (both false starts), 8 sacks allowed!
TOP 5 FREE AGENT DEFENSIVE ENDS NFL
Julius Peppers
Age: 29
Seasons in the League: 9th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $16.683 million
Stats: 29 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 1 INT, 1 TD (off the INT). 5 FF
Summary: Julius Peppers has not had the most productive year. In fact this is his worst year since he was a rookie. Granted he did break his hand and Carolina has only been using him in passing downs for the past couple of games but for a $16 million paycheck he'd better be doing better than that. At 283 lbs Peppers is almost perfect for the 3-4. In fact he's said often that he would like to play in a 3-4. The idea of a front 3 consisting of Smith, Franklin, and Peppers is a fantastic idea--but not at $16.7 million per year.
Elvis Dumervil
Age: 25
Seasons in the League: 4th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $535,000
Stats: 38 tackles, 15(!) sacks, 3 FF.
Summary: Dumervil has been an incredible force this year. He's playing big time ball and is only 1 away from tying the Bronco team record. 11 of his sacks have come on 3rd down--that's an incredibly powerful statistic. Right now he's being severely underpaid. Should the Broncos not throw franchise money at him he'd be a great addition to our D-line.
Johnny Jolly
Age: 26
Seasons in the League: 4th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $530,000
Stats: 20 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT.
Summary: Jolly is a decent end, but not really an upgrade over Sopoaga (in fact their stats are almost the same). He was just indicted for possession of 200 grams of codeine. He might get away with probation, but I'm sure that he'll be suspended for several games next season. Not worth picking up in my opinion.
Ray Edwards
Age: 24
Seasons in the League: 4th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $530,000
Stats: 35 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 1 FF
Summary: The law firm of Williams, Williams, and Allen gets all the praise in Minnesota but Edwards is an integral part of that defensive line. In fact according to FO teams have a tougher time running the ball at him than they do at the other side of the line. His play is pretty good but I don't know how well it would translate to a 3-4.
Marcus Spears
Age: 26
Seasons in the League: 5th season
Status: UFA
Salary: $735,000
Stats: 14 tackles, 2 sacks.
Summary: This has been a rather disappointing year for a former first round draft pick. He's been solid, but not spectacular this year and isn't a real upgrade for us.
If we could pick up anybody in FA to bolster our line I'd like us to grab Dumervil. He's been a monster in Denver and is playing for peanuts--we could get him for much cheaper than we could Julius Peppers.
Here now are the NFC East and AFC East teams needs starting with the NFC teams and ending with the AFC teams:
NFC EAST TEAM NEEDS
Offense:
The Eagles are pretty much set on offense I would say after reviewing all of the starters. They will be set with McNabb and Kolb as the two QB's next year. I do not see Michael Vick staying for the second year on the option contract so they will go for one either free agency or late in the draft for their 3rd string QB.
The O-line is pretty stacked and set. They have the WR's I think they want in the lineup already and the TE is emerging as one of the better TE's in the NFC.
Defense:
This is where I look for the Eagles to go in the draft considering all the above said. 18th defending the pass and 10th against the run. However the interior of the D-line in Mike Patterson and Broderick Buckley have only combined in 1.5 sacks and 75 tackles. Quentin Mikel was getting beat the other night like he stole something. He has only 1 INT but has 73 tackles; the coverage has been a problem here. Sean Jones has not been too great either, at least not something to write home about. He has 54 tackles and 2 INT's. They are set at CB and may not address that until later in the draft or wait until next years.
Draft prediction:
DT, S, or OLB.
Offense:
The Giants have a bunch of young players on offense. They currently rank 12th in passing and 10th in the rush. They have a solid offensive line and a very good TE. I do not see the Giants drafting in the 1st round on offense. They will mature on offense next year with the currently young and inexperienced players they have in position.
Defense:
The Giants are currently ranked 9th against the pass and 9th also against the rush. Althought the stats don't show it, the Giants have some glaring holes in the interior of their D-Line as well as the Secondary. The 4 DT's they currently have are not doing too well. It has mostly been the spectacular play of the DE's on the D-line that have kept them so competitive against the run. At FS Michael Johnson has had 1 INT and 44 tackles; he has not been in position alot and left alot to the CB's to defend alone. Aaron Rouse and C.C. Brown have not been good at all at the SS position either. Brown has been okay against the run but has lacked what it takes in coverage to start in the NFL.
Draft prediction:
DT or S
Offense:
Dallas ranks 7th in passing and 7th in rushing yards. The O-line has done well enough and Jason Witten would be last of the offensive bunch to get replaced. I would be hard pressed to justify an offensive pick for Dallas in the 1st round. It would take a really special player falling to Jerry Jones in order for him to go offense this year.
Defense:
Dallas' defense ranks 21st against the pass and 8th against the rush. I think it is real clear here where the Cowboys need to or should draft this year with such a gaping hole. They are hurting really bad for some safety help and I can easily see them gong with Earl Thomas or Taylor Mays. Thomas would be the hometown favorite from the University of Texas but if he is gone, Jerry won't hesitate to pull the trigger on Mays. Newman and Jenkins have not had the best year either so it would not surprise me to see him go this route in replacing one of them as well.
Draft prediction:
S or CB
Offense:
Currently ranked 16th in the pass and 23rd in the rush I believe that the Redskins will draft on the offensive side of the ball this year. Almost any position on offense could be upgraded so it's real tough to gage where they will go. I think they are set on the WR's and TE's and there is some real upside there. Jason Campbell has shown to be a bit better down the stretch but not enough in the end I think to secure his job. The offensive line has been very streaky and inconsistent so they could go here possibly too.
Defense:
Washington currently ranks 4th against the pass so it is safe to assume that they will not draft a CB, S, or LB in the 1st. The defensive line was just expensively upgraded with Haynesworth and they currently rank 22nd against the run. I just cannot see them spending $100+ million on a guy and then spending close to that on a rookie in the 1st also. They will wait for Haynesworth to anchor the line. They could shock everyone though and go with a DE; it's possible.
Draft prediction:
QB, RB, OT, or DE
Let's take a look now at the AFC East and what smileyman has put together for us:
AFC EAST TEAM NEEDS
Offense:
Currently ranked 2nd overall. Their strength is in the passing game. In the run game they rank 14th overall, and this because of a solid offensive line. Their running backs are pedestrian at best. Faulk is 33, and Morris is 32.
Defense:
Currently ranked 11th overall. They are weaker in the run (16th overall) than in the pass (14th overall), but only allow 18 pts per game and only 320 yards per game. Very stout here.
In speaking with Pats fans over at the PatsPulpit they seem to think that OLB is their biggest need, followed by DE. My guess for the first round is BPA, with a focus on RB, OLB, and DE.
Offense:
Currently ranked 18th overall. Their real strength is in the rushing game thanks to the wildcat, which they excel in. They are ranked 3rd in rushing, but a lousy 26th in passing. Of course it doesn't help that they have no playmaker WR and that they're starting a 2nd year QB.
Defense:
The Dolphins weakness is their defense, especially in the air. Nothing illustrates this point more than their Monday night game against the Colts. The Dolphins controlled the clock for 45 min, yet Peyton Manning still managed to find a way to win.
Needs. Over at ThePhinsider, fans seem split as to what their number one needs are. Some say ILB, others WR. Personally I think they go ILB in the first round since I can't see Bill Parcells spending another first round pick on WR.
Offense:
Currently ranked 19th overall. Even though they lost Leon Washington earlier in the year due to injury their run game has kept on churning. They're ranked #1 right now and Thomas Jones has over 1000 yards on the season. Their passing is abysmal though. They're ranked 30th overall in the passing game and their number one receiver is Jericho Cotchery. We know they need a true #1, which is why they tried to tamper with Crabtree and why the picked up Braylon Edwards.
Defense:
Their defense is one of the best in the league. They're ranked #1 against the run, #11 against the pass and #1 in points allowed per game (only 16.2).
The Jets are situated to really make a difference next year. Four of their six losses have been by 7 pts or less. Their big needs are on offense and the folks over at GangGreen seem to agree. I think they target whichever WR is the BPA when they pick. (Today they had a front page post talking about Golden Tate).
Offense:
The Bills' offense is horrid. They have struggles everywhere. Ranked 29th overall, 29th in passing, 17th in the run, 26th in points per game, 29th in yards per game, 27th in touchdowns scored. Trent Edwards isn't the answer for them at quarterback and it appears that Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't either. Marshall Lynch and Fred Jackson are their RBs, and their number one receiver is TO.
Defense:
The good news for the Bills is that their defense isn't nearly as anemic as their offense. It's still bad (they're ranked 24th overall), but their passing defense is quite good (5th overall). Their safety Jairus Byrd is a stud--he's a rookie and leads the NFL in INTs. They need help on the ground though.
They have NE, Atl, and Indy next, so they should have a fairly high pick. My guess is that they go with defensive line, or if one of the top QB prospects is still available to them they grab him.
Here is the new draft order after Week 14. Some key players in college have decided to stay in college for one more season, so keep this in mind when doing the mock drafts.
1. ST. LOUIS RAMS (1-12) [PREVIOUSLY 3RD]
2. TAMPA BAY BUCS (1-12) [HELD]
3. DETROIT LIONS (2-11) [HELD]
4. CLEVELAND BROWNS (2-11) [PREVIOUSLY 1ST]
5. KANSAS CITY CHIEFS (3-10) [PREVIOUSLY 6TH]
6. OAKLAND RAIDERS (4-9) [PREVIOUSLY 7TH]
7. WASHINGTON REDSKINS (4-9) [PREVIOUSLY 6TH]
8. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS FROM CAROLINA PANTHERS (5-8) [PREVIOUSLY 9TH]
9. DENVER BRONCOS FROM CHICAGO BEARS (5-8) [PREVIOUSLY 10TH]
10. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS (5-8) [PRFVIOUSLY 11TH]
11. BUFFALO BILLS (5-8) [PREVIOUSLY 8TH]
12. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS (6-7) [HELD]
13. TENNESSEE TITANS (6-7) [PREVIOUSLY 14TH]
14. ATLANTA FALCONS (6-7) [PREVIOUSLY 18TH]
15. HOUSTON TEXANS (6-7) [PREVIOUSLY 13TH]
16. PITTSBURGH STEELERS (6-7) [PREVIOUSLY 17TH]
17. NEW YORK JETS (7-6) [PREVIOUSLY 15TH]
18. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS (7-6) [PREVIOUSLY 21ST]
19. MIAMI DOLPHINS (7-6) [PREVIOUSLY 16TH]
20. NEW YORK GIANTS (7-6) [HELD]
21. BALTIMORE RAVENS (7-6) [PREVIOUSLY 19TH]
22. DALLAS COWBOYS (8-5) [PREVIOUSLY 26TH]
23. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS (8-5) [HELD]
24. ARIZONA CARDINALS (8-5) [PREVIOUSLY 27TH]
25. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FROM DENVER BRONCOS (8-5) [HELD]
26. GREEN BAY PACKERS (9-4) [PREVIOUSLY 22ND]
27. CINCINNATI BENGALS (9-4) [PREVIOUSLY 29TH]
28. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (9-4) [PREVIOUSLY 24TH]
29. SAN DIEGO CHARGERS (10-3) [PREVIOUSLY 28TH]
30. MINNESOTA VIKINGS (11-2) [HELD]
31. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS (13-0) [HELD]
32. NEW ORLEANS SAINTS (13-0) [HELD]
For those that want to keep the offseason discussions going don't hesitate to Rec it...thanks.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Todd McShay's Top 5 Picks
Now that Washington QB Jake Locker has announced that he will be staying for his senior season, ESPN NFL Draft Insider Todd McShay has adjusted his top 5 picks in April’s draft. Instead of Locker going first to St. Louis, Nebraska All-World DT Ndamukong Suh is now the top dog. Suh won every major postseason defensive award and finished 4th in the Heisman Trophy voting. Take a look at McShay’s top prospects:
1. St. Louis 1-12 DT Ndamukong Suh, Nebraska
Reach for a quarterback or take the top defensive lineman in the class? Tough call, but we think the Rams should take Suh. Anyone who saw the Big 12 Championship knows what kind of an impact the explosive Suh can have on a game. He is a disruptive run defender with arm strength to toss blockers aside and quickness to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. Though he isn’t the most polished pass rusher, he clearly has great potential in this area.
2. Tampa Bay 1-12 DS Eric Berry*, Tennessee
The Bucs might be hesitant to take a safety with the second overall selection but we believe he’s the premier prospect in the 2010 class. Much like Ed Reed (Ravens), Berry is a game-changer with exceptional versatility.
3. Detroit 2-11 DT Gerald McCoy*, Oklahoma
The Lions are in dire need of a difference maker along the defensive front like McCoy, a three-technique with the quick first step and power to make a living in opponents’ backfields.
4. Cleveland 2-11 DE Derrick Morgan*, GA Tech
Morgan can anchor at the point of attack, make plays in pursuit, get to the quarterback coming off the edge and drop into coverage. That type of versatility would be a nice addition to a Browns’ defensive front seven that lacks difference makers.
5. Kansas City 3-10 OT Russell Okung, OK State
Kansa City’s greatest need is arguably getting help up front. 2008 first round pick LOT Branden Albert has had problems staying healthy and he could slide to the right side or even inside to guard if the Chiefs land a franchise left tackle. Meanwhile, Okung is the most complete offensive tackle prospect in his class.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I actually agree with him on the #1 overall pick
There is a very strong possibility that the Rams will make a move for Michael Vick if they pick Suh. If they get one more viable receiver, I don’t know about you but the Rams don’t look so bad anymore if that happens.
QB- Vick
RB- Jackson
FB- Fells
TE- McMichael
WR- Avery
WR- Free Agent… Maybe a guy like Derrick Mason or Michael Jenkins someone like that.
WR- Amendola
Their D-line would also be beastly with
Leonard Little
Chris Long
Ndamukong Suh
Darrell Scott (2nd year) or Lajuan Ramsey
Young LB’s
Decent secondary if Atogwe comes back
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
... Speaking of the Rams
I think you mentioned picking up a DE who can provide more pass rush as a 3-4 end. There’s a possibility that Adam Carricker will be cut loose (new regime) with all his injury problems. Might be a low cost risk for a guy the team was highly considering had Willis not been available. If he stays healthy, 3-4 end might be a better fit. If he doesn’t work out, it’s not like the guys we have aren’t capable.
I agree as well that Suh has clearly shown he’s the #1 prospect. I’m hoping that Tampa ends up with the #1 and leaves more QBs to be taken ahead of us (damn you Jake Locker/Ryan Mallet!).
by abasketballfan on Dec 15, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
I liked him (Carriker) at Nebraska but
I don’t think he would be an upgrade over Sopoaga. Maybe a good pickup for a backup and who knows maybe later on he emerges and then we dont have to find a replacement for Justin Smith when he leaves us.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Well the Rams need a QB desperately
So if they don’t get one in FA they almost have to get one in the draft. Jason Avant is turning into a pretty good slot receiver and he’s a FA in 2010.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Yeah, I agree with that
But Suh may just be way too good for them to pass up. He is the best player in the draft easily…it would be hard to let him slip past any team.
Vick will go to whoever pays the most $$$$$… I think it has been narrowed down to just a few teams. But he is looking alot better down the stretch now that he has learned the offense and is conditioned a bit better.
Despite all the crazy stuff that happened with him, he was always so fun to watch…he’s explosive and a playmaker and it’s looking more and more like he hasn’t lost it. I found myself semi-rooting for him this past weekend.
I strongly feel it will be either the Rams (if they take Suh) or the Panthers (since they dont have a #1) that will eagerly persuing him.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Hopefully the Panthers though
I dont want to have to face Vick twice a year
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
What are you basing that off of?
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
2500 yards 20 TD passes
1000+ yards rushing (just the 1st QB over in the history to do that) 2 more TD’s to that.
Lead his team to a Championship game the year before.
Probably the single most electric player to ever play the position, etc.
I know there are alot of Vick haters for what he did off the field but to deny his talent, is denying logic a bit. Sure his career comp% is lower than what a starting QB’s should be but he makes up for it and is very much a playmaker.
I don’t care what anyone says but if you put him on a team that has a few playmakers besides him, then they become an awfully dangerous football team.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
how many playoff wins does he have in lambeau?
i was one of the people who wanted vick last offseason
i think we should get him this offseason
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
I have no problem with Vick as a package QB
but he is not a starter, not even close. Well not for our team. Throw him at third string and use him on the goal line…. maaaayyyyyybee
He is not good for the 49ers and alot of other teams as well
and there’s no chance we would persue him for what he will be looking for.
Probable teams are:
The Rams
The Panthers
The Bills
The Redskins
The Bears (Long-shot)
The Bucs (Long-shot)
or…
The Eagles (execute the option for the 2nd)
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Yes
I forgot to mention them…I could definitely see Al Davis going after a speedy QB like Vick.
There’s also the possibility of Cleveland but I am not so sure what kind of marketing contaversy that creates with the nickname for the fan base… Not too probable for that reason alone.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
*controversy
(sp)
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
How many Superbowls does Dan Marino have?
Superbowls don’t measure how good a QB is or was.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
how does this first round sound
1a. eric berry (trade panthers + 3rd rounder to get him if someone gets him before us)
1b. derrick morgan with our second first rounder?
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
I like the trade for Berry
but I say after we pick up a big defensive player with our first pick… We go OFFENSE OFFENSE OFFENSE our defense pretty good. Grab some secondary help
we should try for a top FA OT first tho
maybe if we fill needs in the offseason we can get someone like spiller instead
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:23 PM PST up reply actions
Eric Berry isn't worth giving up a first and third round...
He’s good. He’s damn good. But there is plenty of other safety talent in this draft that will be available lower, for cheaper, and with less accompanying drama (like holdouts because they don’t think they are getting enough money).
Taylor Mays will most likely still be available to the 49ers with the Carolina pick. Earl Thomas will probably still be around by the second round.
I really really really don’t like taylor mays. He’s Dashon Goldson, but worse in coverage and worse technique. Myron rolle is like Mays but better in every way, and looked better this year even though he didn’t play.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
we wont be taking taylor mays at #8
taylor mays isnt woth a top 20 pick let alone a top 10
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
In hindsight...
Would I trade Mike Rumph for Ed Reed? Hell. Yes. But that’s with hindsight.
Actually… now that I go back through the 2002 draft I’m reminded how TERRIBLE Terry Donahue was at doing his job.
It sounds good
but there’s not a real good chance that Morgan falls outside of the Top 10 picks. Our second 1st rounder will more than likely be somewhere in between 10-15 or so…
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Morgan's more of a 4-3 end
Hardy might be a better fit for a 3-4
Cunningham and Sapp are probably 3-4 OLB’s. I’m curious why you think Sapp won’t be able to play as a 3-4 OLB? I haven’t seen him play much but a lot of the draft sites are saying he’s an OLB prospect.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 2:53 AM PST up reply actions
He is more of an OLB prospect
but I don’t think he wants to convert. He is kind of like a Jason Taylor or Julius Peppers type of guy and would make for a real athletic 4-3 DE.
And on Morgan (I am half asleep right now so excuse me) I had already mentioned that his best fit would be in a 4-3 somewhere else in response to MichaelClutchTree.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
There is something to be said for character
Plus, could you imagine the public relations disaster that would ensue if the San Francisco 49ers brought Michael Vick to play in San Francisco? It’s a dog loving city.
He won't come to SF
But he will be starting somewhere in the NFL next season
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I agree
Vick is too good a QB and there are way too many teams in desperate need of one.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
and even if A. Smith isn’t the QB of the future, I get the feeling he’s the QB of next year. I’m getting a major continuity vibe from the front office.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I wanna see him play light out for the rest of the year...
and then sweep the playoffs to win the super bowl
Doesn't matter if someone kills animals, IMO.
Can he help my team? that’s the concern and then it’s will he hurt my team? Fans like their teams for whatever reason, if bringing in a guy with a history of an act or acts that are displeasing, that makes you not like your team, then you really weren’t a fan.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
You have to keep in mind that their HC is a DL guy
No way you pass on the closest thing to Strahan, in recent years.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Berry @ #2? Really?
McShay REALLY believes a team like the Bucs would take a safety at #2 when they have so many other needs? A FS? Really?
Too high I think
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 16, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
berry is thought of by many as a once in a decade talent who people are going to break all the rules to get.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Uh huh.
It’s one thing to break some rule where it just flat out says “you should not draft a FS with the #2 overall pick”. It’s another thing when you’re not breaking a rule, but your own salary cap situation by paying a rookie FS ~$60M over 5 years.
what value does eric berry have tradewise?
if we were able to trade up to get eric berry (or wait till someone drafts him and see) would he be worth our top #1 pick and a 3rd rounder, based on who will be available for us?
also, who do you guys like us getting at #8? i dont like anyone i’ve seen us projected at as being worth a #8 pick
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 10:08 PM PST reply actions
I would say that depends on how certain guys play the rest of this year
We still have lots of holes but there are a lot of young guys who could step up to finish out the season
There’s no doubt that OL is an area of concern and the rest of the season isn’t going to change that. RT is obvious and I would like to see an upgrade at LG. Both are early rd or FA needs. PR/KR is the only other glaring need in my perspective.
If guys like A. Smith, Coffee, Rachal, Brooks, Brown, R. Smith, Goldson step up or continue to step up then the laundry list of needs decreases and we have more flexibility to get the guys we really like.
Berry is a playmaker who excels vs the run and pass and has a knack for turnovers. Obviously these types of players are rare. He’d certainly be worth it in my mind as long as we don’t leave gaping holes on the OL and don’t address PR.
by abasketballfan on Dec 15, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
if we’re gonna trade our draft picks away, I say we get someone who has proven himself in the NFL. Atogwe from St. Louis may be a RFA if they don’t franchise him again, and will be a straight free agent if if there is a CBA. Kerry Rhodes has said he’s unhappy at the NYJ. giving up a 1st and a 3rd for him would definitely be worth it, although I don’t know if the jets would be down for that. maybe send them michael lewis too.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
berry is already NFL level
and we’re not exaclty “trading pick away”
we would be trading up our top pick and a third round for berry if he goes high, so basically we’re giving up a third rounder for him
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
That's the question. Does Sing and the coaching staff feel the safety spot is a top priority?
Also, trading up using only our 1a and 3rd picks would not take us up very far. A couple spots at best and then we lose a good player at 3. Is Berry worth that? Yes… but that is us saying that.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
remember that you don’t know that until he’s in the NFL. Lots of player look great in college and are thought to be NFL level, and end up not doing anything.
Kerry Rhodes- could cost us a 1st round and a 3rd round
Eric Berry- could cost us a 1st round (to select him) and a 3rd round to trade up
its worth approaching the jets front office before the draft and trying to get rhodes, while still having the option of trying to trade up to get berry.
also, here is the chart teams use to trade draft picks http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php
moving up into the top 5 from pick 8 would cost a 1st and a 2nd, not a 1st and a 3rd.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
That's a very interesting chart
Thanks for posting that. Good find
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
good analysis but
i doubt the jets wanna do business with us after we accused them of tampering, dont u think? but good idea nonetheless
Atogwe
They may not franchise him since he was injured and having to have surgery now.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
exactly
he would be such a steal jesus christ
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
dude
you cant just assume you can move everyone around
eric berry WILL be our FS if we get him. we will likely move goldson to SS.
clements, bly, spencer at CB
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
P.Willis running the wild cat!!!!!!
I can’t imagine Berry in any other uniform than the niners. I already feel like he gonna be on the team next year. This is not good…
I sometimes feel the same way about spiller. the draft will be a heartbreaker, but I think we’ll come out of the draft kicking ass.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
Not Bly
He was on a 1 year deal so he’ll be FA in 2010
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 5:57 AM PST up reply actions
Every scout
Says Berry has fluid enough hips and good enough feet to be a corner.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 16, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
Berry will not play CB in the NFL
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
atogwe
plays safety
if we signed atogwe in FA if he gets cut or if we trade for him (he was a 3rd rounder, maybe we trade him for a 4th round pick?), would we not draft berry?
i assume we wouldnt since we would then have atogwe and goldson?
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
McClain is ILB not really in any way a top need
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 5:59 AM PST up reply actions
THIS
what do we need less than an ILB?
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
his contract expires, there is not cutting or trading.If they want him back they’ll have to pay him more than us. if theres no CBA then he’s a RFA, in which case trades are in order, and they’d probably give him a middle of the road tender, maybe a first or 2nd rounder.
Any need taken care of in free agency/trades is a good thing. less risk than the draft.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions
No way
This draft is stacked with talent. With two first round picks we have a chance to get two very good players. Guys that can come in and contribute right away, maybe even start.
I would be willing to give away our third rounder to get Berry. Hell ya
SO WHO DO WE TAKE?
i cant wrap my head around all these opinions for who we take in the first round.
1. do we take CJ spiller if he’s available? i think if we take spiller, we trade coffee. simple as that. we dont need 2 smashmouth runners if one will be a backup, as well as a change of pace and a KR/PR
2. if berry is gone and we dont try to trade to get him, who is worth taking at #8? haden? an o-lineman besides okung? really? would we then try to trade down?
3. do we take an OLB like jerry hughes?
4. do we take a DE like derrick morgan?
ASSUME THIS IS BEFORE FREE AGENCY
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 PM PST reply actions
Well...
Hopefully we would be able to solve either our deficiencies at OT or SS before heading into the draft. Knowing how tight the York’s can be with the purse though, that’s not a guarantee.
1. I’d go WR shopping before RB shopping. San Francisco is transitioning to a more pass heavy offense and we have one top flight receiver in Michael Crabtree. Defenses are just going to start babysitting him with two and three corners before long unless the 49ers can put more receiving threats on the field.
2. I think you can get Bulaga with the 1B pick, which means I’d be in favor of trading the 1A pick to a team really eager to get their hands on that dream quarterback that will “fix all of their problems.” Especially if you can get another low first round with another second round, or a pair of high second rounds with a third round.
I’ll make a separate comment about the overlooked needs on WR.
1. people forget that CJ Spiller is probably the best rb in the draft when it comes to catching the ball out of the backfield, or even when lined up out wide. Of course there’s his speed, but he’s also got great hands.
2. I’d prefer we target Joeseph Barksdale, a true RT from LSU who has been blowing scouts away. He’ll probably be available in the high 20s, maybe even the second round since he’s an RT and not an LT.
On the trade down, a 4-3 team looking to get younger/better on the D-line would get a lot of value out of a trade up, and every 4-3 team is looking for new talent all the time.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
Just a few ideas...
1 – The problems Gore has had this year were because of a terrible O-Line that has been unable to punch holes, make creases or do anything to get Gore passed the line of scrimmage. Fixing the O-Line, fixes the running game problems.
2 – I’m not sold on how well Spiller will do in the pro’s. I’ve got images of Reggie Bush’s first couple of seasons in my mind that I’m struggling to shake.
3 – The 49ers need depth in the receiving corps. Right now, they have one receiver that is a legitimate threat in Michael Crabtree. They need more variety and they need more depth and there are a lot of good WR’s that are going to fall to the second and third rounds in this draft. It’s good talent with great hands for cheap.
Spiller is way different than Reggie Bush
If you look at highlight films side-by-side they aren’t really comparible. If you put Spillers highlights next to Marshall Faulk’s highlights when he was at Sand Diego State it’s a little more close only Spiller is much much faster.
I watched him every game this year and the guy has special written all over him. Imagine if he turns out to be like a Chris Johnson or Marshall Faulk type of guy. Today’s NFL it is imperative to have 2 solid backs. I am really sold on the Thunder and Lightning idea, 1-2 combo, that Spiller and Gore would bring. DC’s would go bananas in trying to figure us out. Plus, the advantages Spiller brings in the return game would be great. Between him returning and Andy Lee punting we would always have great field possession
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I guess...
I live in Texas so we don’t see much Clemson football down here between the Texas, Tech, A&M and Oklahoma and Nebraska.
That was my impression from watching the highlights I had seen. I guess I’m more oriented towards improving the 49ers passing game this draft because I think get great WR talent for a bargain. I’ll post more below.
and
we still can get good wr talent as u stated later, but its hard to pass up on a guy who could come in and contribute and make our offense more versatile, plus i havent given up on brandon jones and jason hill and morgan, they may still turn out to be a good unit if given time to gel now that smith is at qb instead of hill. plus its about time we gave up on robinson, the guy hasnt done enough to warrant bringing back next year. but if u think we should upgrade the passing game then i say we do that drafting lineman over wr, what do you think of that kid from Illinois? he seems like he might be a good steal in the later rounds.
Arrelious Benn
He is more than likely going to be a late 1st to mid 2nd round pick
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
He sucked this year though, didn't he?
I was expecting much more.
Of course it’s not all his fault….
I’m guessing he may even fall to the 3rd round.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
So you're "voting" for a #1 pick used on Spiller?
Just making sure I understand ya on that Drew.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 6:19 AM PST up reply actions
Not necessarily
There are alot of contengencies, of course there is free agency and all that to consider. But if Berry is gone, and we get a OT with our 1st pick and he is still there for our 2nd pick, absolutely an advocate of it. It would not disappoint me one bit.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Jahvid Best
…will be available in the 2nd… and he’s from Vallejo… and he’s just as fast if not faster than CJ Spiller… and he’s a ridiculous return guy.
Very true on all counts
especially WR. I’ll be working on a post a bit later today on that.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 6:18 AM PST up reply actions
1. You need to have 3 true RB’s regardless of style on your depth chart
2. I would love to get Berry, but I don’t like the idea of trading that far up and having to give up as much as we would have to, to get him. He could go as high as the #2 overall pick.
3. I think we saw that Brooks is going to be an awesome pass rusher last night. Sing has made some bold statements about Briggs and we know that Haralson is a stud… I don’t think it’s a need.
4. Maybe…depends on who is available and who has already been taken off the board. The thing about Morgan is he is 30 LBS lighter than Sopoaga and could not do what he needed to do there. The OLB’s typically are your go-getters in a 3-4 D. Morgan will probably go to a team that runs a 4-3. Dunlap or someone heavier works better for what we do on defense. Although I am not saying go after Dunlap unless he somehow falls in to the 2nd round and he’s there at our pick.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
i guess we could get sproles as well
if the chargers dont resign him
then we would have no need for spiller
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions
also
drew who do you think we do with the FIRST pick if all the top prospects are off the board?
i mean i dont see us drafting any OT besides okung and no one from the secondary with that #8 pick as is
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 15, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
Trade down...
There is a ton of talent in this draft. Having a quantity of picks in the second and third round will allow the 49ers to scoop up a lot of talent on the cheap.
Can't always trade down, often they don't get an offer or they offers that are good enough.
If Berry is not available at # 8 I would also prefer them to trade down to the middle of the 1st and pick up another 2nd or 3rd
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Yes
What sigma said.
If Bulaga and Berry and a few others that we would like to take are gone, then I think it would be wise to trade down and rack up some later round talent since the 2010 draft is probably one of the better classes coming out for a while. And then let all the talent fight it out for who wants it the most. Those are the types that I like… guys like Brit Miller and Jason Hill. Guys who just go crazy and give every ounce of heart they have every chance they get.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
If we don't want the pick
Is it logical to think people would want it. Obviously there is a lack of value at that pick.
Bush could be great in our offense
He needs to be run on delayed draws out of the shotgun where he has time to survey the field, see the hole and do what he does best which is hit top speed within a few strides.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 16, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
Not a bad idea if he comes cheap
He’s not great but does add another dimension to the offense which I’ve been calling for. Another plus, he would be a solid PR option. I’m curious if he’s still not 100% after his knee injury.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
I said in another thread
I really don’t think Reggie’s style works with the offense out in N.O. which sounds ridiculous initially but the thing is, Bush accelerates too fast for his own good. He doesn’t seem to have developed the necessary vision to make the best use of his physical talents. In college he was so fast he could hit the first hole and break it outside for a TD. That doesn’t happen in the NFL and his problem is he isn’t running patient enough. He gets the ball and steps on the gas and runs into a wall of blockers when he’s running inside which the defense gameplans to force him to do. If Bush took his time he’d get bigger holes and have a better chance to bust a big gain. Running him out of the shotgun on counters and draws he has a chance to survey the defense for a second and see the hole and make a play.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 17, 2009 1:53 AM PST up reply actions
Definitely vote for Gore... again!
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
we can get a rookie in the draft cheaper, maybe even as late as the 3rd round, who would be just as good if not better. the really fast guys get old fast.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
Dunlap?
Who is another top LE that can play out of our 3-4 D going in the first two rounds. I think that type of player would be a great pick. I don’t think we need a LB unless its McClain. And I have a soft spot for hughes…. ha
Dunlap is a raiders pick. Great measurables, but nothing else. not a lot of production this year, he’s looked lazy, and now he has a DUI 2 days before the biggest game of the season (SEC teams think more highly of the SEC championship than the national championship).
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
teams move 4-3 DTs to 3-4 DE fairly frequently. I think Sopoaga is doing ok.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
Ya just ok...
I want to see a monster at LE that racking up some sacks and lettin our LB’s run free.
I don't think Dunlap will end up being a Raider
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Before FA...
I say we get..
Berry/CJ Spiller – two play makers on both side of the ball.
Or McClain/CJSpiller
we might be stuck with the 8th pick with Berry and Okung off the board. It might be smart to trade down.
IMO this draft is stacked and you can find a starter anywhere in the first round.(I like hughes if we trade down)
But my dream is Berry/spiller
I HATE the McClain pick
yes he would be a good value. Yes he’s the best player available. Yes talent is more important than need. But there is a limit to everything. No imaginable first round pick will help our team less in both the immediate future and the long run than Rolando McClain. We’d have to take a Punter or something to do worse. Next year (if we resign wilhelm, which we will) we will be 4 deep at ILB. That is the ONLY position where I think we’ll have sufficient depth and talent.
Lets go through all the positions, from back of the defense to offensive backfield and see where we stand
S: Major need
CB: need depth, another starter would be nice
OLB: wouldn’t hurt to get a bomb pass rusher, a lot of people think this is a major need
ILB: I think we’re OK with Spikes for 1 more year, Wilhelm for 4 more years, McKillop for 9 more years (maybe)
DE: a lot of people want to upgrade from soap
DT: Franklin’s contract expires this year
Center: We’re pretty good here
Gaurd: We’ve got a contract expiring (Baas) and subpar starters
Tackle: Good on the left, need major help on the right. 1 more would be solid depth.
TE: we only have 2 on the roster, a run blocking TE in late rounds wouldn’t kill us.
QB: a source of tremendous controversy. I’d like to see what we have in Alex smith, then see davis can do after a year under center on the practice squad before we can draft a QB. Some disagree.
RB: Gore is great, elite, probably in the top 5 in the NFL, but we only have Coffee behind him, and gore seems to get tired. a speedy back would give us an elite running game.
FB: not a big fan of Norris. Haven’t seen Brit Miller play FB.
WR: we’ll have 4 wideouts if bruce and battle leave. Enough? maybe. 2 injuries and we’re in trouble. and WRs get injured all the time.
P: Andy Lee is god
K: Nedney is getting old, but he’s got a few years left in him.
LS: Now this guy is old, but I think he’s ok for now.
Here it is, the list of things we need less than ILB this year: C, P, K, LS
we won’t draft any of those positions in the first round either.There will be a player as good as McClain at a position of greater need available when we would have the opportunity to pick him, unless by some miracle he falls to the 2nd round.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 12:20 AM PST reply actions
Disagree with the CB pick…especially high. There is no talent worthy of high picks for any CB’s coming out this year.
Disagree with the OLB pick. I think we are set there.
Disagree with the QB pick. I like what we have.
Disagree with the FB pick Miller is a manimal and Norris will be okay again.
Other than that, the positions listed I am good with.
We need to grab a good Center somewhere in there later on. Heitmann is getting older and we should start grooming a young guy behind him to take over when he goes. I am not sure that Cody Wallace is the right guy there. Maybe Wallace will be a good backup but if we can get a guy like McNeil or Estes in the draft, I would be very good with that
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I agree with you on CB. I actually don’t think we should draft a CB unless he can also return kicks. However, if we let bly go the next year we are an injury away from running out of corners again.
OLB hasn’t looked like as big of a need in recent weeks, but people used to be saying that we needed to draft Jerry Hughes in the first round
I’m right with you on QB. just trying to show what the consensus is. I actually think it would be a bad idea to draft a QB before the 2012 draft, unless andrew luck declares and falls to us next year.
Heitmann is only 29, so we may have 3-5 years left in him. and I think the FO likes Cody Wallace. I’ve never seen anything of him though.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions
If 2012 comes...
And Andrew Luck has continued to perform as well as he did his freshman year, without Toby Geirhart, at Stanford – there will be a great many teams interested in his services.
I think Gerhart was a big contributor to Luck's success
They were able to run a great PA Pass (which btw Luck was great at)… However, without a Heisman candidate running the rock for you, it does take away alot. His passing yards could go up but his comp% could go down and it was only 56% as it was. That won’t bode well for his stock status.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Gerhart was good, but the blocking from the line was incredible. He would always get to the second level completely untouched. Marecic ran great behind that line too, and I think their running game will be fine next year.
Luck only improved as the year went on. If he comes back from his surgery I think his comp% and yards go up. And apart from whalen he doesn’t really have anyone to throw to. Scouts notice things like that (take Locker for example).
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 2:01 AM PST up reply actions
Luck could come out after next year
He’s a redshirt freshman. He is talented and runs a pro-style offense.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 3:57 AM PST up reply actions
Gerhart understood at an instinctual level how to use his blocks
not alot of guys know how to take best advantage of that. So we’ll see how great the next guy at Stanford is.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 16, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not impressed
I’ve seen two games on ESPN replay with Haden. Was against LSU and he got schooled big time by LaFell. The other was against Arkansas and he did not seem like a pro prospect to me.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Positions of need...
S: This is one killing our ability to handle the dink-dunk (screens) passing game.
CB: Some depth would be nice, but this should be handled in the later rounds of the draft or in FA
WR: Outside of Crabtree… There’s not a lot of distinguishing talent or a lot of depth. This NEEDS to be fixed if San Francisco is serious about becoming a more pass heavy offense.
RB: Gore still has a few years left and fixing the O-Line will do more to help his health and his running game than getting another back would
RT: Seriously. Fix this. Play from the right side of the line has been pathetic all year long.
QB: Unless Smith suffers a career ending injury at some point this season – DO NOT draft a QB. There are much bigger needs and Smith has shown/is showing significant improvements in his accuracy, mechanics, presence and leadership.
On what the Niners Need
I would argue the Niners most important need is Tackle. I would argue draft the best left tackle or go after McNeil in Free agengy and move Staley to right tackle. Continuing with the O-line another guard would be fantastic even though they looked pretty good on monday.
Now on to what Sigma is writing. Safety is obviously one of the huge needs, but I do not feel the Niners should trade up for Eric Berry. If he falls to that Carolina pick that would be fantastic, but do not trade up for him. By the way, we are paying the guy too much but I believe Nate Clements would make a solid Free Safety if they do move him.
The Niners need one more playmaker at least on offense. CJ Spiller, with the Niners first round pick would be great, the other option I might hear some boos due to this guy advisor but Dez Bryant would be awesome also. A later pick that could be a playmaker that is smaller is Dexter McCluster.
Needs by order of importance- 1. Tackle 2. Safety 3. Offensive/Special Teams playmaker
The Niners are close in only one game this year, did they not have a chance to win the game in the 4th quarter.
by Oracle Junkie on Dec 16, 2009 2:12 AM PST up reply actions
Hmmm.....
Dez Bryant would be good and would improve the return game… but I don’t like it.
If we hit a homerun in FA and get McNeil, then maybe… but I would rather get more playmakers on defense or O Line depth than take Bryant.
We are not that far away from being a playoff team and I think we need to copy the NY Giants and build depth on both sides of the line to strengthen this team. Give Smith a year to work with the WR’s over the offseaseon and come into camp knowing he is the man and he will improve even more. If we shore up the line and give him time he will continue to get comfortable back there and improve even more.
Gore will also reobound with a monster yeat. Teams will have to worry about the passing game which (with an improved line) will mean great situations for Frank.
While Braynt is the “sexy” pick… I say no thanks.
I would love Spiller, but not Bryant at this point in time.
by What you talking bout Willis on Dec 22, 2009 7:02 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree about Whilhelm and little about McKillop
Whilhelm was on the street when we picked him up. He was in the same system with the Chargers and proved he wasn’t starter quality. I lived in San Diego and Charger fans were complaining about him all the time.
McKillop may well turn out to be a good player, and he’s shown some positive signs, but just because he’s done well on special teams doesn’t necessarily translate to becoming a great ILB. If he does become a good ILB then great but I’m not willing to bet on many 5th rd picks turning out so. He didn’t beat out Whilhelm so that’s not a good sign in my eyes.
With those doubts in mind… I see McClain, who looks like he has star written all over him, I think that’s not such a bad pick. Maybe there’s another star there to pick but the word “hate” is bit strong in my opinion.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 4:12 AM PST up reply actions
thats what im saying
if the guy is there for us to pick (mcclain) why not pick him? hes gonna be a contributor right away and talent like that is not something we might have the chance to pick again, theres alot of talent in the draft but u cant say many are surefire starters from the gate, mcclain like berry and suh is one of those select few. but hey if theres a top notch OT available thats a need we cant ignore. other then that i say McClain is a great pick if its there for the taking.
If the Rams still go QB
and shock the world with picking Clausen, Pike, Bradford, or McCoy then Tampa definitely takes Suh and the chances of Berry falling to us increase by a larger margin. The teams chosing in between the top 4 and where our #1 pick will be (Probably 8 or 9) won’t be looking for secondary help as much as those. So if the Rams pass, it really just depends on what the Lions and the Browns really need. The Lions could definitely use the help but McShay is right that they need someone to anchor down that D-line pretty bad. You always start from the inside (the trenches) and work your way out when you are re-building…typically anyway.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
It's Detroit...
Their version of rebuilding under Matt Millen consisted of drafting, what, 4 WR’s in the first round over those years?
He was at least 1 for 4 out of that group. Did he select Megatron though? Wasn’t Martin Mayhew there for that one? Not 100% sure…
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Yeah...
Unless I’m forgetting one at 5am, I think Roy Williams is the only one of that bunch you could call a success.
You wouldn't call Calvin a success?
Not that I disagree with the overall point that Millen sucked as a GM. But just saying that Calvin Johnson is a pretty special WR.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Damn those 5am brain farts..
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Millen was a knucklehead as a GM
Should have been a LB coach or something instead. He’s not a very good announcer either haha. Was a heck of a LB in his day though…I’ll give him that.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Can't ignore Wide-Out's this draft
I know I’ve been banging on this drum for a while, but the wide receiving corps for the San Francisco 49ers needs some serious help. The current group is composed of Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Jason Hill, Issac Bruce, Arnaz Battle and Brandon Jones. That’s a collection of Michael Crabtree and “huh,” “hum,” “huh,” “wha” and “ha.” After this season, Brandon Jones and Arnaz Battle probably won’t be returning (if gameday performance means anything) and Issac Bruce is probably retiring; leaving just Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan and Jason Hill.
Obviously, the 49ers can’t just have one playmaking WR and only three WR’s total. Transitioning towards a pass heavy modified shotgun spread offense and letting the WR position get that thin is a recipe for a midseason disaster courtesy of injury or fatigue. But there is a good deal of talent at the WR position in this year’s draft, and much of it is going to fall through to the second and third rounds offering yet another reason for San Francisco to consider trading down.
For instance…
- Golden Tate, receiver extraordinaire at Notre Dame and the only reason Clausen is anywhere near the first round, is projected to go somewhere in the second round. He’s quick, good at running routes, has a big body and hands made of glue. He could very well be that deep threat down the other side of the field that keeps defenses from baby sitting Michael Crabtree with their entire secondary (which is how teams in college defended Crabtree, double or triple teams).
- Jordan Shipley, (also) receiver extraordinaire at Texas and (also) the only reason Colt McCoy is anywhere near the first round, is projected to go in the third or fourth rounds. He’s quick (not warp speed, but quick), fantastic at running routes, loves to go to the middle and fight for balls and he likes getting physical. Like Tate, his hands are made of glue and have caught tons of passes from McCoy that had absolutely, positively, no business being caught. He also brings Tebow-esque intangibles – he’s extremely mature, a locker room leader who led the UT football team bible study group at one point. Scouts have compared him to Brandon Stokely and Wes Welker and he’s going in the third or fourth rounds. I think that makes him an absolute steal.
I don’t know about all of you, but I would feel pretty good about a WR corps that consisted of Michael Crabtree, Golden Tate, Jordan Shipley, Josh Morgan and Jason Hill. I think you get more ‘bang for your buck’ (or draft pick in this case) going for high caliber receivers who have fallen through the draft than trading up for CJ Spiller. I’d love some comments on this though.
I think..
Eric Decker (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=2180) would be a great pickup in the 3rd round. My current (personal) projections are looking to pick up a speed back in the 4th (instead of WR) right now, but maybe get a WR (that also has RS capabilities) in the 5th and/or 6th. Some possible guys around then might be Shipley (maybe), Trindon Holliday (way too short in my mind to be anything but a RS), Dexter McCluster, Jacoby Ford, Armanti Edwards (QB that will need to switch to WR, ala the Pats pick up of Edelman last year) , etc.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
Eric Decker...
I seem to remember him having problems with his ankle (maybe his knee?) during the towards the end of the Cal-MN game but, I was impressed by his physical play and his hands. I wouldn’t be opposed to getting him but I’d be concerned about that ankle, something that would keep him in the third or fourth rounds for me.
Personally
I like Chris McGaha from ASU if we are going to get a possession WR like that. We could probably get McGaha in the 5th or 6th also, so it would be well worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez0tTdXH4vI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omhoUYoSDlM
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Smoking the Washington secondary...
Isn’t exactly that impressive. Granted it’s not bad as Washington State, but it’s not good either.
He played well all year
It’s the only highlights I could find on him
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I like McGaha too.
If you remember I had a sample draft a while back that actually had them both. Decker at 3 and McGaha at 6.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah he had a foot injury and was out for the season...
there was another player recently with a foot injury. :-) We’ll benefit from that and be able to get him a wee bit lower. And yes I’m talking 3rd
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
I like your thinking...
And I think we are building a convincing case for trading at least one of the first rounders… I’ll post the scenario down below your last comment.
WR's
What about the kid from Georgia, Green? Or Arrelious Benn, who is coming out this year as well.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 16, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
Benn declared today
McShay said he thought he’d probably be a late 1st rounder. Not too sure about AJ Green…he’s only a Sophomore so he could go back to bump his stock up more
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Benn will be the second to 4th receiver taken
and for once I agree with Drew. He will go pick #24 or later. More than likely later because I see him falling behind both Golden Tate and Dez Bryant and possibly dropping behind Brandon LaFell who is an LSU player that actually WILL succeed in the NFL. The receiving lineup in the draft is very deep with high level talent… Doesn’t look like there will be any legends but there will be at least 2 strong #1 WR’s that come out of this draft. I think all of the top 4 WRs in this draft are at least as good as Jeremy Maclin last year. If Julio Jones was a Jr this class would just be ridiculous.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 17, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions
True Soph right?
That would mean he can’t come out unless I’m mistaken… I’d gladly take Julio Jones too if were possible
by abasketballfan on Dec 17, 2009 7:00 AM PST up reply actions
we have Jones signed for what, 5 years?
He’s a pretty skilled player, and with Arnaz and Bruce gone, he’ll get his opportunity.
Shipley
Could be a Wes Welker type. Very high football IQ, great hands, team guy, hard worker…. If his combine numbers (specifically 40 yard dash) don’t wow everyone he could fall pretty far.
Depending on where he falls I like that pick.
Use Crabs on the outside, Davis in the middle and Shipley on all the under neath routes.
by What you talking bout Willis on Dec 22, 2009 7:08 AM PST up reply actions
A few things that should be noted
We need to get a list of who’s going to actually be around in 2010. By that I mean that we need to have noted the players that will be Free Agents from our team next year and that we most probably will not try to resign.
So with that said here’s the list that I have: (This is with the concept of a CBA being signed that will have an FA structure like the current one)
WR Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle
OT Barry Sims
OG David Baas
NT Aubrayo Franklin (probably will be resigned, darn well better be LOL)
LB Jeff Ulbrich
CB Walt Harris, Dre Bly
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 4:24 AM PST reply actions
Bruce, Battle, Baas, Ulbrich (retired), Bly will definitely be gone.
I see the 49ers as trying to re-sign Franklin and maybe even Harris.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Why will Bly be gone?
Best overall play behind Spencer for the season.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Believe there's a chance Bly will be back
I’m still pissed about the Falcon play but he’s been solid other than that. Probably a guy they won’t resign right away and just depends what other options we have in FA and the draft. Pretty sure Walt is gone.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
He broke up a couple of passes...
against Arizona last Monday Night. I was impressed by one of those plays.
Bly
was pretty expensive though and only signed a 1-yr deal I am pretty sure
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Bly isn't actually paid all that much
We picked him up pretty cheap at $845,000.
He signed a huge deal with Denver in 2007—-$33 million with $16 million guaranteed.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
All these mights are possible.
But if his contract is up then he and others who’s contract is up should be considered to be gone.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 17, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
I thought I remembered that we paid him a multi-million 1-yr deal. I could have sworn…
Oh well. Then yeah if he wants to come back for about the same amount, I am all for it even though I still haven’t forgiven him for the Atlanta game
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Veteran minimum I think...
but since he is a long tenured Vet it was more than we though, but not more than $1 million I don’t think.
Bly
He has been GREAT for us this year. But keep in mind we brought him in during camp and got him on the cheap. After all his success this year he will be looking for a big raise and will go anywhere to get paid.
Is Walt Harris coming back or is he done?
I’d like to bring Bly back, but at no more than 2 mill. he will most likely want 4 – 6 mill, at that price I’d say thanks, but no thanks
by What you talking bout Willis on Dec 22, 2009 7:11 AM PST up reply actions
Taking yet another shot at a 49ers Offseason plan.
Team Needs: OT/RT, S, OG, WR, RS, CB, Pass Rusher(s), Speed back
Free Agency: OT Alex Barron or Mike Gandy, OG Jahri Evans or Logan Mankins or Darryn Colledge or Eugene Amano
1a. (Guessing probably around pick #7) I’d vote for S here. If we can’t get Berry cuz he’s off the board, then look to get Thomas or Ras-i Dowling.
1b. (Guessing probably around pick #13) Optimal would be to trade this (or the other one) down as soon as we see Berry off the board if Thomas (or perhaps Dowling) shoots up the board. But if that fails then just pick up a good CB or DE or OLB that has darn good pass rush skils. Options: DE/OLB: Derick Morgan, Jared Odrick, Greg Hardy,
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 12:04 PM PST reply actions
You'll get considerably more...
If you trade the 1A slot instead of the 1B slot. If you trade the 1B, you might get a couple of high second round picks. If you trade the 1A, chances are you could get a 1C, 2B and maybe a 3B. It’s something to keep in mind when looking at the board.
Agreed but..if I'm looking at Berry coming up...
and we have a chance at him..I’m gonna use that on him and try and trade the b down at that point. Otherwise I completely agree.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Trade 1A Scenario...
Say you decide not to get Eric Berry or CJ Spiller with your 1A and decide to trade down instead. Using the handy dandy slots as points conversion system, you would expect to probably get the following for your trade – 1C, 2B, and maybe a 3B.
1A: Trade
1B: Address S or OT (I think you address Safety here)
1C: Address deficiency not addressed by 1B (Bulaga is probably still on the board)
2A: Tate – deep receiver (desperately needed to keep defenses honest against Crabtree)
2B: Best available S or CB – For depth
3A: OT or OG – Draft for depth
3B: Eric Decker – Big WR, possession player with good hands and good temperament
4A: Jordan Shipley – Slot receiver (need) and punt returner (desperate need) and locker room leader
4B: Best available CB/S
5- Best available defensive player
What this draft would do.
- Completely rebuilt safety and secondary units (with three draft picks addressing shortcomings).
- Completely rebuild the WR corps which would consist of four probable elite receiving talents (Crabtree, Tate, Decker, Shipley). Jason Hill and Josh Morgan would hopefully continue to develop.
- Punt returner would also be solved as Jordan Shipley does a superb job. Tate and Decker have also returned punts in college.
- The O-Line would get a first and third round picks which should significantly bolster this troubled unit. Fixing the O-Line will help make the passing game more effective and will significantly improve Frank Gore’s performance.
If you trade down from that spot and not get E Berry
You’re not going after BPA, which is dumb when you have two first rounders.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
BPA shouldn't be the strategy this draft.
Best Player Available is a crappy way to draft for a team that has a very well defined set of needs and a limited number of draft picks which it can use to fill those holes.
Say if the best available player at #8 (or wherever the Carolina pick is) in the draft is Jimmy Clausen. Does this mean that the San Francisco 49ers should go and nab Clausen when they have a good starter (Smith), decent backup (Hill) and a project QB (Davis)? Absolutely not. Drafting another QB without fixing the O-Line or improving the WR corps would be completely counterproductive. You need to look what your needs are and then draft the talent you need to meet those needs.
For instance, the San Francisco 49ers have a defined set of needs
- O-Line (2 or 3 picks)
- Safeties/Secondary (3 picks)
- WR’s: Corps depletion (4 picks)
- Punt Returner (combined with WR picks)
Evaluate the talent available to fill those positions. If you think you have a draft pick that would make you places to high of a premium on the available talent for that situation, trade down and get more picks so you can fill more needs.
For a team like STL or CLE or DET, then you probably want to look at the Best Player Available because you have so many needs and desperately need playmakers of any sort. There it makes sense. For teams in San Francisco’s position, which are literally one good draft away from a playoff run, it doesn’t make sense.
BPA is...
… the best way to draft in the top half of the first round. The 49ers have a defined set of DEFINITE needs, but the team can stand to be upgraded all the way across the board at MANY positions.
You have to realize that when people say BPA, they’re not saying, let’s take a #1 RB even though Frank is still running strong. They’re not suggesting the team take a ILB when Spikes and Willis have things pretty sewn up. By BPA, people mean you don’t reach just because you have a “need.” You draft the players at the top of the board in positions where you don’t already have an impact player. For example, if the 49ers sudden had a highly ranked, 3-4 weakside-OLB prospect fall into their lap at that first pick, you better believe they are going to take him, even if there is also a guy that can play RT available. RTs can be had late in the first or even throughout the second round and maybe even into the third. The same can be said for guards.
Also, why do the 49ers NEED a WR but not an OLB? (according to your defined set of needs)? The 49ers have tons of bodies there, including a recent first round pick. The only person leaving is Issac Bruce.
Basically, my argument (and I’m thinking rlott feels similarly) is that the 49ers could stand to be upgraded at almost every position except RB, TE, LT, C, DE (and by this, I mean 3-4 DE), and ILB. The 49ers have a chance to get two impact players (which is what you expect out of two potential top-15 picks). You don’t pigeonhole yourself into taking a RT with those two picks unless you feel that RT is worlds better than the next possible player on your board.
I agree to a point...
There are definite impact players in the top half of the first round. The question I’m asking is whether or not you get more bang out of the draft by trading that 1A pick and acquiring significantly more talent by getting more draft picks?
You’d still have two picks in the bottom half of the first round (assuming SF can make the playoffs), as well as more picks in the second and third rounds to catch the talent that slides out of Round One.
Where are these picks that you're speaking about trading for?
Do they work as far as the Trading Chart? Teams follow that pretty religiously. If the numbers don’t at least come close to “adding up” you’re possibly not going to get the picks you speak of.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Sure...
If Carolina’s spot became #8 in the draft it would be worth 1400 points. Say the team with the #21 pick would like to trade up to get that guy who just rocks their world (but is of very little interest to SF).
- - 1400 points = (#21 – 800 points) + (#53 – 370 points) + (#85 – 165 points) + (#117 – 60) + 5 more points. Trading down from #8 to #21 would give you a 1C, 2B, 3B, and 4B picks in the draft.
Trading 1100 gives you more picks and the best player at a position
I am going with the BPA with my first because he wasn’t suppose to be there at 8
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Only if either Berry or Okung is there at # 8
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
We wouldn't take Okung
We’d trade then if Berry isgone. We have a LT.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Okung and Staley would be a set for years.
I doubt that Okung would fall that far but they are about equal and OT is the biggest need.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
For Okung we would move Staley
back to RT
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 16, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
You're not gonna get more than a 1 and a 3
Teams don’t want to pay the money, why not take our 2nd and 4th from last year and get a first round talent, it’s bang for our buck because we can trade 1b which is still a chance to get a 1 and a 3!
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Again we agree
Expectations and dreams are nice but this is reality. And trades as far as picks are judged by all teams based on an “agreed upon” chart specifying points.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks
I was too lazy at the moment to get the link :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
say we have pick 8 and 15
1400 pts vs 1100. You wouldn’t draft the best prospect at a position of need and trade 300 less points and still have picks in the same round? That defies the logic of drafting.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
But you are adding depth at positions that aren't as glaring of a need as safety.
If we added Berry and an OT with our first two picks and traded the remainder picks, we would be fine at the postions you are talking about.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Okay. Good Point...
Safety is a glaring need. I think anyone would have to consider Eric Berry at #8.
You cat as if all of those draft picks will make the team
With the WR’s we have we will not draft more than 1
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
i would wholeheartedly lol
if we trade carolina back their first round pick
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 16, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
BPA when have set needs is not good but..
BPA in needs and in priority is.
As was noted in my prior post (not well as I sent it before I was near finished by accident LOL) the Needs were defined and prioritized. Also as was noted it was with Free agency moves done to help fill those needs. We are talking about offseason here as is noted in the subject line. That compriseses (in my mind) at least Free Agency and the draft. The picks in the draft were and will be influenced by moves done (or not done) in Free Agency. The OT and OG needs of the draft were lessened to a large degree by moves done (and noted) in Freee Agency. Therefore the next most pressing need would be safety. Therefore your initial premise of " Say you decide not to get EBerry" negates the issue. EBerrry is the BPA the consensus agreed player desired to fill a primary need. He is the top player on your “draft board” and to not pick the top player on your draft board would (in my mind) be (to quote you) “a crappy way to draft”. The talent has been evaluated to fill positions with a weighting system of priorities of need and an understanding of what needs have had their priorites lowered by FA moves.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
I am not suggesting BPA draft
Just BPA with one pick, I would have assumed anyone reading that comment would have understood that since we have two 1st rounders we can use 1 for BPA, based off of our draft board and if he isn’t there then we trade the pick. i am assumong that Berry would be one of the guys so why pass on who is on our list as BPA. Crabtree was number 1 on our draft board, he came and we took him, although I would have taken Oher or Orakpo thinking of need, it is what the stragedy is and I think will be.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
He is not only, most probably, the BPA
but the best player around to feel a primary need. Trading that pick would be in my mind senseless. There are needs that the 9ers need and they are not overly large in comparison to other teams.
In other words, as seems to happen often, rLott I agree with you. :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
1 good draft away?
Why not use an early pick to fill a pressing need with the BPA in the WHOLE DRAFT? You don’t even make sense from that aspect of what you are saying. If you don’t have a need at QB then Jimmy Clausen doesn’t meet BPA standards. BPA is the BPA in a position of need. It would be like drafting McClain at 8 and we have Willis when it would make more sense to fill a need with the best player avail, at that position.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Just trying to demonstrate...
Why you need to put a “need requirement” on the BPA aspect of trading or you end up drafting like Detroit did when Matt Millen ran the team.
In my mind that is what BPA is.
Colts are picking at 30 let’s say, and Clausen is there, he is not BPA because they have Manning. Defining BPA is obviously the reason we are talking. BPA is all about needs as well.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Yup...
Agreed. I just don’t know if Eric Berry is worth the chance to draft serious depth and talent for the WR, OT and CB/S positions. That’s my question.
Now I must be blunt. This started with my comment
So obviously you are ignoring what I am saying. Trading a pick at 8 and not at 13 or 15 when Berry si there makes no sense, because you can still get picks in later rounds to add depth at other positions. When you have 2 1st rounders and a guy on the top of your board is there, you better make the pick, or you will be donned the idiot of the draft until your team proves otherwise.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
So you think Berry is worth...
is worth an additional second round pick or one additional pick in both the third and fourth round because that’s the difference between trading down from #15 and trading down from #8.
If so, that’s fine. That’s I’ll trying to ascertain
berry is a rare talent at probably our 2nd biggest need. if he’s there at pick 8, he’s a 49er. end of story. however, with locker out, berry is likely a top 4 pick.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
Hell no
Suh, Okung, DT from Okla, Clausen, bradford, Snead. We have to remember that there are teams that need QB’s despite Locker not coming out.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Snead isn’t even a first rounder. Bradford, maybe in the top 10, not the top 4 due to rustyness and injury concerns. Suh, Okung, McCoy (dt from OU) and Clausen I’d also believe as the top 4. add in berry and I’m pretty confident that is the top 5, unless washington is picking in the top 5. Snyder loves names like Bradford.
in terms of talent independant of positional importance Suh, Berry and McCoy are miles ahead of clausen. Even Okung doesn’t get the same level of universal praise those 3 do.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Ok now we get to it. :-)
And that’s what I thought was missing. Let me ask this..if Dez Bryant was available at that pick would you still trade it? Rusell Okung? Just trying to get a feeling for your “bias” as I know my own. ;-) See I’d consider going with EBerry at that “draft point” would be worth it. Just two viewpoints as far as personal “scouting” of players.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Good question...
Dez Bryant? I’d trade down. Because I think Golden Tate is roughly equal in talent and performance and is a sleeper so far in the draft. He can be had in the second round probably. That and I’d probably be able to pick up Jordan Shipley and Eric Decker as well. So you’d have to convince me that Dez Bryant is so good he outweighs adding Tate, Shipley and Decker.
Rusell Okung? He’s tempting. The O-Line needs serious serious help and he’s a great talent. He was able to give the Texas front 7 a good deal of trouble this past game. Keeping Alex Smith upright and making holes for Frank Gore are two key goals of this draft and he does both nicely. But I doubt he falls to #8
Eric Berry? Interesting but not tempting, so between Okung and Bryant. San Francisco badly needs talent and depth in the corners and for safeties. You’d have to convince me that one Eric Berry outweighs probably getting both Taylor Mays (who I think makes it to #15) and Earl Thomas (who I think falls to the second round).
Does that make any sense?
umm
bp. Golden Tate is roughly equal in talent and performance and is a sleeper so far in the draft
i would say hes definitely NOT a sleeper
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 16, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
no way
does okung fall to us at #8
berry… possibly. but with the teams ahead of us and their offensive situations, they do NOT skip on okung
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 16, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed on Okung
That was used as a hyper example chosen based on his expresion of needs. He said WR and OT so I chose the top player in both for the example.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
49ers need depth at corners and safeties
So pass the best safety in the draft up? Depth and starters are not the same when taling players. We don’t take Okung at 8 because he would be paid LT money and we have one. Berry not tempting but you want to add Golden Tate and Shipley, and who will you cut, neither of them will have signifigant time on the field. Let me rephrase that only one of them will. Sonce our OL and DL plus our DB’s need help why in the hell would we add so much to WR’s? Higher picks give you better players at positions of need. OG and OT will be addressed before WR. And you can bet your sweet ass that CB or S will be addressed before WR. Maybe Madden is getting to everyone. Offensive lineman are worth more to a team than WR’s simply because there is only one Randy Moss. THen you have to look at the fact that OLineman assist the QB RB and WR’s. So before we for we go gun ho on wideouts let’s be realistic which is clearly outside of your realm of thinking.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
If Berry is there at # 8 we take him same as last year with Crabtree
That decision would take maybe 2 or 3 seconds, tops.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Exactly Jim
They would show whichever team is walking off after making that pick and they’d cut to Jed York running to the podium. “With the 8th pick in the 2010 NFL draft the S.F. 49ers select – Eric Berry, Safety – University of Tennessee”
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 16, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Okay... Point by point...
I’m just trying to get a conversation going. There’s no need for this to get all that heated.
1. I don’t think Eric Berry will be available at 8. If so, you take him. If not, trade down. I was simply asking about a cost benefit analysis between taking Berry or trading down for more slots and offering a potential draft when that might occur. I was merely positing a hypothetical.
2. Staley can move back to RT, but again, this isn’t an really an issue because I doubt Okung falls to #8 (assuming Carolina doesn’t win again).
3. I envision the 49ers moving from a two wide set to a three wide set as their standard offense, which would give the WR’s more playing time.
4. (Continuing the WR discussion) – Battle, Jones and Bruce are most likely all departing by the end of the year. That leaves three open WR slots on the team which, I’m proposing, the 49ers fill with drafted receivers: Tate, Decker and Shipley. This talent pool would probably have the 49ers set at WR for the next 5 years. Thus there would need to be no cutting of drafted receivers to make room on the roster. It’s a simply replacement.
5. (Continuing the WR discussion) – Tate and Shipley are fundamentally different receivers, and are not a mutually exclusive proposition. Think of Tate as adding another Crabtree and Shipley as adding Wes Welker to the WR corps.
6. (Continuing the WR discussion) San Francisco desperately needs punt returners, something Tate can do, and something Shipley does brilliantly.
7. I’m not adding that much to the WR as compared to the other positions. If you trade down the 1A, you’d end up with 8 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft, two picks per round, using the points chart. Three of those picks would be used for WR’s and three of those picks would be used for S/CB’s and two would be used on the O-Line. In fact for every non-OLine offensive pick, there is a defensive pick.
8. I address both S and OT before WR in my draft. CB is also addressed in the second round which would be the highest round SF has taken a DB/CB in since Mike Rumph (the bust).
9. I understand how much OT/OG are worth to a team which is why I’m taking them in both the first and third rounds. So, again, I don’t understand the criticism.
10. I also understand that Madden isn’t reflective of how pro-football works. I know you can’t just call go-routes all day, which I is why I’ve constantly advocated for a slot receiver to bring lots of high percentage passes back to the playbook. These draft picks are reflective of my belief that the passing game is becoming increasingly important in NFL offenses, as the professional game continues to borrow and implement elements from pass heavy spread offenses in college football.
you are wrong all over the place
1. this is a place you aren’t wrong. Berry will not slip to 8. however, trading down if he is there is foolhardy. FS is a huge need and we won’t have another shot at a player like him.
2. I agree
3. you are wrong here. Everyone likes the 2 TE sets. and an empty backfield doesn’t fly in the NFL, so I can’t see us moving towards 3 WR sets.
4. Why is Jones gone? he has 3 years on his contract and is good depth at worst.
5. I don’t know much about this
6. I agree
7. I don’t know. we also may want to take a pass rusher.
8. these are statements of facts, so I can’t disagree or agree.
9. RT is very different from LT in terms of where they are drafted. LT is a first round pick, RT is not.
10. drafting 3 receivers just seems unnecessary, since we don’t use 4 wr sets ever. I’d understand drafting 1 though.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Jones most probably will not be gone.
We just got him last year on a big contract and that would give us some rather big cap hits.
Isaac will be gone and made no real contribution this year, unforutnately for all parties. So too will Battle. Both of their contacts are up.
So too will the contracts of Harris and Bly and Roman. And a few other people as well. (I tinink I noted them in an earlier post).
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 16, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
Our disagreement...
Seems to be over wide receiver utilization, since we agree on points 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10.
3. I’m not a huge Delanie Walker fan and I think a proper slot receiver will bring a better pair of hands, better speed and route running allowing for a more effective underneath passing game.
3. (Con’t) Having three or even four WR sets doesn’t necessarily mean you empty the backfield.
4. I was operating under the assumption the Front Office might look to trade him considering he hasn’t been utilized by the offense at all this season and there might be some value there (from his Tennessee career).
9. If I were going to draft in an OT in the first round it would be for the LT and Joe Staley would be moved back to RT
10. Because of the QB and defensive focus of the draft, I’ve got the feeling the 49ers would be able to stock up on receiving talent that would typically go much higher. That was part of the calculus.
It's a tough call...
Do we not use 3 WR sets because we lack a good slot receiver or because the team loves what Delanie can do in a two WR set? This is certainly open to debate.
Personally, I would like to see a wider variety of sets next year. This would help keep defenses off balance.
Jason Hill has produced when given the opportunity. I think the two TE set helps protect a weak OL though. If we improve the line, then I think we’ll be able to open up more sets.
The team could use a deep threat that can line up in a slot position. We only have a handful of picks and I would put OT, G, S, CB, and even OLB ahead of WR as far as need. If there’s great value at one of our picks then go ahead and draft a WR.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
We don't have 3 quality WRs
Crabree #1. Morgan who is decent but not great (but has show good improvement). Hill who is inconsistent and Jones who has had all of 1 reception this year.
Not a very awe-inspiring sight for sure.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Wait
How is Hill inconsistant? He barely gets to play and when he get’s his chances he makes the most of them. Personally, I would like to see Morgan and Hill spilt time 50/50 and I bet Hill would emerge as a clear-cut good #2
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
That's why he's inconsistent
Yeah he’s done good but for whatever reason he’s not done well enough to get on the field.
I’d think if he was a more consistent player he’d be splitting reps with Morgan.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I just think for some reason
they don’t like him and favor Morgan. Maybe Hill is lazy in practice or something like that.. But I think he has the talent. The guy runs a (4.31) 40 YD and he seems to catch all the passes. I would certainly like to see him get some of the bubble screens go to him and let him fly.
But I dont think it makes him inconsistent because the coaches wont play him. I guess there’s a reason why they arent though. That reason could also be that they just have too much faith in Morgan.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
the thing I don’t get is that singletary gave hill the scout team player of the week or something similar award before the titans game, then he catches 2 touchdowns against the titans, then he’s gone.
by hellaninersfan on Dec 16, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
I would like to see more of him
this is one of the reasons why I wish I could see the coach’s film. Does he not get targeted because Alex has already made up his mind who he’s going to throw too (though Alex has gotten much better on that). Does he not get balls thrown his way because he doesn’t get open fast enough?
I can’t think of any egregious drops (unlike VD and Crabtree). Just makes me wonder why the coaches like Morgan so much more.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I wonder that also
it’s very strange to me
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
That's exactly why I want to draft WR's...
Because the current group is “Not a very awe-inspiring sight for sure.”
God no
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
@Smileyman
Morgan is coming along but he needs to learn how to help out his QB when pressure comes and a play has to be made. He also needs to get better at attacking the ball while its in the air instead of just letting it float into his numbers.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 AM PST up reply actions
Morgan
If he can learn how to run a route past the first down instead of 1 yard short of the necessary yardage he would be fine with me……
Drives me crazy when he does that
by What you talking bout Willis on Dec 22, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
Let's ignore the fact that the formations with Walker have been our most productive.
We find something that works and then we scrap it in the offseason, yeah sounds good.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
I agree they have been our best
But it would be nice to have an option to be able to better attack D’s that have lousy nickle packages and linebackers that are good in coverage. An example would be Julian Peterson.
Gimme 1 round!