Eagles 27 - 49ers 13: Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the offseason
by David Fucillo on Dec 20, 2009 4:37 PM PST
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintFooch's Note: We'll have two game threads in just a bit: One for Panther Watch 2009 (Minnesota/Carolina SNF) and one from Drew K for the New Orleans Bowl with players to watch. Also, site decorum rules are in effect for this recap thread so keep it clean. If you need to swear, go back into the 49ers game thread.
And with that relatively meek performance, the 49ers playoff chances are officially finished. This loss, combined with the Cardinals and Cowboys winning, closed the door on the division and the wild card. The 49ers have two games remaining against Detroit and St. Louis, leaving them a rather decent chance to finish .500 for the first time since 2002. Given how the season started record-wise, this is not what most folks were hoping for. Nonetheless there have been plenty of positives to take from this season. Unfortunately much of that was not seen today...
Last Monday night the 49ers were gift wrapped a good chunk of the game as the Arizona Cardinals couldn't hold on to the ball without stick em. The 49ers took advantage of those turnovers en route to a 24-9 victory. Today the 49ers continually shot themselves in the foot in just about every aspect of the game. They turned the ball over repeatedly, their punt return game was nonexistent yet again, the defense gave up big plays, and of course the offensive line took a huge step back after a decent performance last week.
When you struggle like the 49ers struggled, you really have no chance to beat a quality opponent like the Eagles. The 49ers were certainly "in the game" in terms of the score at times. But in reality given how they were continually performing today, it's hard to say they ever really were going to get back into the game. Their longest scoring drive of the game was 38 yards (the first Nedney field goal). When they cut the lead to 7 in the third quarter, it came after a McNabb turnover. The offense simply couldn't get it together yet again. Blame the line, blame Smith, blame whomever you want. I know Florida Danny will certainly have some blame to throw at Josh Morgan, king of the 1 yard too short catch on 3rd down.
As we move ahead through the season, the plan is to still focus on these last two games (as opposed to completely switching gears to the offseason). The team can at least work these next two weeks on continuing to implement the offensive approach they're looking for. Maybe it's not a completely accurate representation of NFL defenses in Detroit and St. Louis, but it's a good start. Some folks will be demanding Nate Davis enter the arena, but Alex Smith can still prove a lot in these next two games. Maybe not that he's "The Answer," but at least that he can step up against inferior opposition.
In the meantime, Drew K will be providing game threads for the various bowl games with players to watch, and he'll also keep up with the Official Offseason Discussion FanPosts. I've begun plotting out ideas for the offseason, but at this point I'd like to at least potentially enjoy these last two games. Some folks will be disappointed the team will hurt their draft stock by winning, but you know what? I want that .500 record. Maybe it's a bit of an empty .500 given the position this team was in at one point, but .500 is .500. The team has holes to fill and is in a good position to fill some of these holes.
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Oh well.
I still have a few more years before I die.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 4:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
At least they’re bad teams, like the Niners.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions
can all the alex smith codependents please
give me one game, where alex actually won it for us when we needed him to?
Alex Smith rallies Niners for 20-17 victory over Cardinals
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Smith’s crisp day leads 49ers past Jaguars
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap;_ylt=AlhV6Phxk4tbqUbxfS3aXGr.uLYF?gid=20091129025
(Warning: This was well over three weeks ago, so you might have forgotten about it…)
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
You were asked for one game, not 6. Your argument is hereby thrown out
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 20, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
I am Bob On The Coast
and I am an Alexoholic.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
How about Shawn Hill
Has he won anything? Smith should have won the Texans game, but he was down like 24-0. The Cards game Grant cited too
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
And how many games
that were must wins has he either:
A) completely disappeared
B) made stupid, stupid decisions
How many “must win games” has Smith had the opportunity to play in his career? None from a preceding season that i can remember.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
i think every game is 'must win'
for this team. Every game he’s played in this year has been meaningful. He shown little else than he can make close failed comebacks.
So i guess the win over Jacksonville, an average team going to the playoffs, doesn’t count in your book.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
THE ONLY GAMES THAT ARE MEANINGFUL ARE THE ONES WE LOST
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
Trying to win meaningful games is new to him this season, giving him some more time is the right answer. Cutting him for not dominating his first few meaningful games just doesn’t make sense.
playing against
those big mean men is really hard on Alex. I understand. maybe we can give him some therapy for a few years.
If I'm a Green Bay fan
I’m slitting my wrists over the end of that game.
If the play stands.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 4:48 PM PST reply actions
there is always next year
too bad we have been sayin that for 7 years. one question… when will it be “next year”?
I think I’m going to register for a sock puppet account, pretend I’m a fan of the 49ers’ opponent of the day, and evaluate their QB as if he were Alex Smith.
thats easy
Every time something good happens, its someone else on the team who made it happen.
Every time something bad happens, its the QB’s fault.
by goatfather on Dec 20, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
Can’t give the kid credit when he does well, but the blame is all his if it goes bad.
never mind that there was lots of it to go around this game.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
And just remember...
He’s never ever good enough when compared to that team’s legendary QB (most teams have one, so just go back and dig it up).
dude, mcnabb isn’t a winner, they won IN SPITE of him. he had all the time in the world what woas up with his INTs? Randall Cunningham would have blown the 9ers OUT.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
Check out his O-line
As stated during the broadcast, they have been called for 4 holding calls all season. Can you imagine that, on a pass heavy team? How might McNabb look behind our line? How might Smith or many other QBs look behind the Philly line?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Blew my mind to hear that
I don’t care how good anyone is, how is that possible for a pass heavy team?And playing Ware From Dallas, Osi from NY? Sounds a bit too much like refs read the players bios and see that a guy has very few penalties and think “I don’t have to watch him too closely.” I then fulfills it’s own prophecy.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Yeah, they were only "called" for 4 holdings....
I lost count of the holding calls I saw today that weren’t called…at least on one of them McNabb threw an INT
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 20, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
one foot off the bandwagon
Not a good game from Smith.
20/37 for 177 yards? I guess that was better than last week. Almost 5 yards per attempt!
Of course, he never had any time to throw…. which explains all the dink-n-dunk. There must have been a dozen pass plays where a Philly defender/blitzer came UNBLOCKED. That’s not even all the OL’s fault, is it? Probably part OL, part guy left in to block, part OC/Film analysis, part smith not recognizing defense.
That being said, he’s better than Hill.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
That was a hideous performance...
1. There was absolutely, positively no protection for Alex Smith from the offensive line. None. By my very rough count he was sacked at least 4 times, and pressured at least 15 times. It was pathetic protection.
2. The offensive line not only failed at protecting the QB, they were also heavily penalized for false start (multiple times) and a holding call that brought back a good Frank Gore run.
3. Alex Smith’s decision making went downhill rapidly after the Delanie Walker fumble and then the Delaine Walker penalties and after the O-Line decided to visit Independence Hall instead of going to the football stadium.
4. Pass Rush? Where was it. Donovan McNabb had all day to throw to DeShawn Johsnon which is always a really good thing to have happen.
Story of this first half goes something like this… Delanie Walker fumbled. Then Delanie Walker started jumping offsides. Then the O-Line started jumping and stopped blocking. Then Smith’s decision making went downhill about as quickly as he was getting laid on the ground.
Story of the second half goes something like this… O-Line starts protecting, as San Francisco starts running more plays out of the gun. Alex Smith makes a bunch of really good throws and the 49ers string together two impressive series (with an FG and TD). Then the O-Line falls apart. Then the defense can’t make a stop. Then the O-Line really falls apart and the game is done.
The good news is that Gore only needs 48 more yards
to hit 1000 on the season
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
DeSean Jackson
sorry to correct you but as a Calguy i want his name spelled correctly
DREAM DRAFT:
1a. Either trade up to get Eric Berry, or trade down a big amount of spots, get a 2nd and 3rd rounder, and take Spiller
1b. An OT
2a. Iupati
2b. CB/S depth
3-7. Whoever the hell you want
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 20, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
As a Stanford guy...
I say his knee hit the ground and that ball was dead. I also say the Stanford band is more awesomer (isn’t that something you Berkeley kids say?)
The Furd band sucks
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
But it’s Smith’s fault the LOLine doesn’t block!
Classic.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
yup
Delanie W. earned my runner up award to M.L.P. (most lousiest player award). First goes to Alex Smith..whose big fans in here will probably stone me for attacking their precious.
Look below
when Rocky compliments a guy, you know he’s doing something right
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
I would agree...
If Smith hadn’t had a significantly, and I mean significantly, improved over the first half. He had a chance to let it get in his head and he was able to shake it off and come out after halftime and rock. Until the line fell apart again.
I wouldn't lay it all on Smith.
I’d lay more blame on the O-line.
Having said that, Smith does things that don’t inspire confidence. I think he’s the best the Niners have. Maybe next year Davis will step up or the Niners will draft someone better or pick up a free agent.
That is, I wouldn’t stop looking for an upgrade, but a couple of better linemen would be higher on my wish list. And let’s not forget Pashos. He looked okay for the half a game he played.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
At least the Niners didn’t lose like how the Packers just lost………………
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
But it looks so familiar. I guess the Packers just got Farved.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
By Roethlisberger?
Nah, they just had too many penalties.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
I guess you could call the end to this season rather disappointing
High hope, but let down by the ineffective offensive line, pass rush, and secondary play.
Some positives Alex Smith finally looked like he could be the real deal as a starting quarterback, Michael Crabtree has amazing hands, Frank Gore is still consistently getting yards, and Vernon Davis has become the best tight end in the NFL.
Hopefully next year the 49ers will play with more consistency and will be able to win games on the road. 1-6 isn’t going to get it done.
If the FO fixes the LOLine first, then i’ll have some hope for this team.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
It's amazing how one bad penalty effected the outcome of the game
If that holding call where Gore had the nice run didn’t come, the 49ers had momentum going, but was wiped out by a non existent holding call.
I re-watched that play 4 times on my TiVo...
And I still don’t see anything that would amounts to holding.
I understand the o line has issues but Smith doesn’t make any plays when there’s a breakdown like McNabb was doing. Like Big Ben did with his bad o line when they won the Super Bowl. That’s something Davis can do. Not like Smith running to the sideline and throwing it away.
by NJ 49ers on Dec 20, 2009 4:58 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Before i expect Smith to make big plays the recievers need to learn how to catch.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
The coaching is to blame.
The play calling is to blame.
The O line is to blame.
The receivers are to blame.
The officials are to blame.
The fans are to blame.
All of the different OC’s are to blame.
Smith’s injury is to blame.
Alex Smith is the best QB in the League, maybe ever.
I'm still not convinced.
No
The coaching is to blame
the play calling is to blame
the o line is really to blame
the receivers are to blame
the officials suck too
the different OC’s suck
the secondary sucks
and alex smith didn’t do so well today either.
I’ve got no problem with people calling out Alex Smith when he deserves it. I just hate it when people lay it all on his feet with no context at all.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 20, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Smith needs to work on his accuracy and his decision making. I have no idea if the first is possible, which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if Smith was never more than an average QB. I’ve always had confidence that the decision making would improve with more snaps/protection, but it’s hard to write that after a game like today. He had a bad game. Hopefully his last two are much more encouraging.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
McNabb
Pretty much had all day to throw and when there was pressure it was usually one 49er defender not three or four going after him. He also has a player named Desean Jackson who can outrun anyone on the 49ers so all he has to do is get into eye contact with McNabb and get to a spot.
The 49ers really don’t have that because well Smith is usually running to avoid the three to four defenders. The Eagles also weren’t missing blocks either.
As for Davis he wouldn’t have been successful today either, he has no starting experience, and he has never seen an NFL defense before besides preseason.
God, Big Ben has a terrible O-line, i mean it’s pretty bad, and yea, at least he does something with the ball, he breaks tackles, scrambles, and makes something happen
He's also...
Like twice Alex Smith’s size. So physics dictates he’s better at batting off D-Linemen.
Smith is not as strong as Roethlisberger is
And the Steelers actually had a defense that could get points as well.
Vernon Davis is stronger
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
That's what I wonder
Even the best football teams are flawed and the best teams have quarterbacks who can pull the fat out of the fire. I don’t blame Smith for everything but I have no faith that he can overcome anything.
I don’t hate Smith.
It reminds me of a wedding I went to years and years ago. It was the wedding of my best buddy from the army. At the reception I was chatting with this one woman when Don introduced me to this other woman who had a wicked smile and the greatest set of headlights I had ever encountered. And a little unsteady from all the champagne. Let’s just say that I went with the upgrade and didn’t regret it.
If there’s an upgrade out there the Niners should go with it.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed, i don’t blame Smith for everything either, there’s plenty of blame to go around the WHOLE team. I don’t hate Smith either since not all this is on him.
Good call on the last story! couldn’t agree more with your last statement as well, perfectly said
The bad part of the story was that
I woke up the next morning with a hangover on the seedy side of Hollywood and there were two little kids standing at the foot of the bed asking, “Mommy, is he our new daddy?”
But it was a great night.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
time for a change
We need a new QB for the future no more nolan experiments. He is a backup and these two games proved it. So let’s put davis out there so we can see if we need to draft one
Let's get the division!
by chriscream on Dec 20, 2009 5:00 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm not totally against the idea
but 3rd-strings generally don’t do a heck of a lot after the season starts, so I suspect that throwing him out there might just guarantee a couple more losses. Then again, that moves them up farther in the draft.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
No
Davis hasn’t even been practicing as a QB. He’s been playing everything but QB in scrimmage this year.
And you want to throw him in there when he hasn’t even taken snaps in practice?
Bad idea.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
i wouldn’t be against putting Nate in though because what are the niners going to take away from Smith playing against two flag football teams?
If Alex Stinks up against the Rams and Lions then we will know that we need a new QB
He got owned by a good team today.
If he can dominate two crappy teams then there is still hope for him.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
If he dominates then we know he can get better.
If he can dominate against a crappy team then he will eventually be able to perform well against good teams.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Neither did I
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
Niners nation
Where being happy with a QB who is only better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jake Delhomme, Brady Quinn, and the Raiders and Rams pu pu platter of QBS,
I'd take him over
Jason Campbell, the Jets QBs, Cassell, Garrard, Henne, maybe Hasselbeck, DET QBs, Cutler, TB QBs
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
Wow you are insane…
I’d take Cassel, Cutler, Garrard, and Campbell over Smith. Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman are rookies. I’d take all of them over Smith right now due to the upside
Oh and Freeman’s TB team beat Seattle 24-7 today
You just destroyed all your credibility with that statement
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
You’d take Garrard (one playoff win playing with superior talent to Smith), Cutler (zero playoff appearances despite being coached by Shanahan, a turnover machine and poor leader) and Cassel? So you don’t want to win.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Really? Superior talent? Outside of MJD who on Jacksonville’s offense is good? The corpse of Torry Holt? Unheard of until this year Mike Sims Walker? Damn right I’ll take the guy whose won a playoff game in Pittsburgh. Cutler threw for 4500 yards and 25 TDs last year.
Garrard has has more talent around him his entire career than Alex has had.
Is this news to you?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
For this year. Look at Smith’s other years he started, i mean the #1 was Battle for God’s sake, not a formula for sucess.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
The year that Jacksonville went to the playoffs with Garrard they were pretty damn good
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
Look into the other thread for reasoning
flat out Cassell has 6% less completion percentage, Cutler throws way too many picks, Garrard has the same stats with less TD, Sanchez throws more INT than TD, Freeman has 6, 6more INT than TD, and Campbell is going to get cut. I’m insane, sure…
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
Did you know Cassell has lead a team to 10 wins? And Freeman is a rookie you moron. I said I’d take Freeman for his upside
easy
Please don’t call someone a moron.
by David Fucillo on Dec 20, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Keep throwing out insults
it validates your arguement bro. Cassell had a team that went 18-0 the year before nearly completely returning. Smith could go 10-6 with that group. Freeman was worse than Smith was as a rookie. Freeman had a lower completion percentage in college than Smith has this year for christ’s sake!
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
Did you know Freeman threw for 205 yards, 2 TDs, and 1 INT today in a 24-7 victory over Seattle? What happened to us against Seattle two weeks ago?
Gotta love those one game sample sizes
His end zone INTs are also why his team lost to Carolina and I’m not sure they got 100 yards of offense against the Jets. Impressive.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I'm just not going to reply to this
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
What happened to us against Seattle two weeks ago?
We had a QB throw for 310 years, 2 TDs, and 0 INT.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Smith’s not accurate. His passes are all over the place. Our receivers do drop some passes but he needs to lead them better also. Maybe we could actually get some yac.
by NJ 49ers on Dec 20, 2009 5:02 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Putting him behind a NFL O-Line wouldn’t hurt either
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
*lol*
seriously?
You think this offensive line is actually good?
wow
Definitely a troll
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 20, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
ooooohhh name calling…
the fact is we only ran 16 times but we got over 100 yards..of course if you want to give props to A. Smith for that too…
joe staley is that you?
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
Did you watch the game?
When the 49ers called successive runs they got stuffed.
The only times they had success running the football was after an Alex Smith pass.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
Run blocking and pass blocking are two different things friend.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
hey im not your friend buddy
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
Having a training camp...
Where we actually practice passing the ball between the same QB and the same receivers who will be catching can’t hurt either.
oh come on its
his new OC…wait old excuse
its his new coach..wait old excuse
its his recievers…wait old excuse
context is important
the fact that you can’t see that invalidates your arguments
instead you’d rather start a QB who hasn’t taken any snaps in practice at QB ALL YEAR LONG. yeah that’s a smart move.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
HEY GUYS I HAVE A FRESH NEW OPINION ON ALEX SMITH DO YOU WANT 2 HEAR IT?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
How many play(er)s away from winning?
Fortunately, unlike 2004-2007 the Niners don’t require a roster overhaul or coaching change. Every loss, minus to Atlanta, comes down to less than a handful of plays. When that happens once or twice, it’s bad luck. When it happens in every loss against top teams, it’s because you’re not good enough. Fortunately I think the Niners need only a few players to help turn around those few plays that turn these losses into wins.
On offense: upgrades at RT and LG. Imagine our QB with more time to throw, Gore having a few extra running lanes per game. That leads to fewer turnovers and sacks, thus more points scored and better exchange in field position.
On defense: a consistent pass rusher and speedy nickel safety. Fewer big pass plays allowed, more turnovers forced and better third down defense.
ST: A return man who makes a few big plays throughout the season but does all the basics correctly ever week.
It’s not asking a lot. Fortunately the themes are the same in every loss and this was a great schedule to judge the areas in need of upgrade. The Niners have played five top ten teams on the road this season (AZ, MIN, IND, GB, PHI). Having played such a brutal road schedule will help the team’s maturity into next season but ultimately, they don’t turn the corner and become a 10+ win team without upgrading at least two of the above mentioned positions.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Dec 20, 2009 5:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your synopsis.
That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a better quarterback out there for the Niners. No one that they draft is going to change things appreciably next year, though. Not for the better.
Actually, the guy who is most likely to go is Hill, especially if Davis has as much potential as everyone seems to think.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
There are better QBs
I just don’t think that any are available. And any draft pick would be of no help next season and is no guarantee to be better in three years than the young Davis on the bench. I’d rather develop him for the future if Smith doesn’t work out, and upgrade what’s around Smith. A full offseason with the same system, WRs, TEs and all the reps from this season where he can learn from his mistakes. Plus, if Smith does not work out then when he is replaced there is already a full compliment of skill players and linemen to surround the next QB.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
by SpurredOn on Dec 20, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
look at allstar's other posts in this thread
hes just braindead
nothing to see here
DREAM DRAFT:
1a. Either trade up to get Eric Berry, or trade down a big amount of spots, get a 2nd and 3rd rounder, and take Spiller
1b. An OT
2a. Iupati
2b. CB/S depth
3-7. Whoever the hell you want
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 20, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
My only argument is...
that Alex Smith is a good QB. Period. Is that too complicated for you?
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
Throw in a "'nuff said" and an "end of story"...
…and maybe I’ll change my mind.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
keep buying into the
excuses of Oline, its complicated, OC if you want to.
I think its simple we need to get A QB that can move his feet, throw the ball, and possibly do both at the same time which Smith apparently cannot do.
I thought people had acually read the other posts about bad olines ie. Pittsburgh and how the QB ACTUALLY makes plays. But if you want to be fans that make excuses go right ahead .
Oh and real cute with the putdowns. Thanks :)
The Steelers are 6-7, what’s your point?
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
of course..
i know its been a long time since we’ve had a competent qb. So the prevailing wisdom is to buy into the nonsense of “developing”, and “improving” and when we get this in place he’ll be better. WRONG.
Alex Smith had a bad game today. He wasn’t perfect on that VD seam pass that he’s nailed all year, and it happened when a ballhawk was sniffing the play out. On another INT, he read man, but the corner made a great play in zone. On another, he was being pulled down and made a bad decision to throw anyway. Bad game.
When he has had time this season, he shows a strong arm and athleticism. Seeing as he was starting for an awful team at the same age most QBs are sophomores and juniors, I don’t hold those years against him. I also don’t hold the games where he was playing with a shredded shoulder against him. So that doesn’t leave a whole lot of games on which to judge him, which is why I haven’t made up my mind yet.
Judging QBs early is a great way to judge them poorly.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe that's a legit excuse
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
Seeing as he was starting for an awful team at the same age most QBs are sophomores and juniors, I don’t hold those years against him. I also don’t hold the games where he was playing with a shredded shoulder against him. So that doesn’t leave a whole lot of games on which to judge him, which is why I haven’t made up my mind yet.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
49ers...
8-8 seasons are the worst kinds. 8-8 seasons get coaches and management fired because they aren’t bad enough to start rebuilding through the draft and aren’t good enough to contend for the Super Bowl.
As sad as it may be, I’d rather the Niners lose one of these last two games against pathetic opposition than win both and screw the chances at a premium prospect.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
We have access to a premium prospect with CAR's 1st Rounder...
But if you draft smartly, you can find good players later on in the draft like DeSean Johnson (Round 2).
You can get a prospect at pretty much any number
That will fill needs for a team. Case in point Nnamdi Asomugha he was drafted 31st.
I honestly just didn’t see how this offense was going to work when they change the scheme midway through the season
I’m just saying lets end this experiment with Smith. He’s a decent qb but I want us to find a great qb. Yeah we could give him some o line help and the whole offseason but we’ll just be wasting time. He is what he is. Let’s see what Davis has and get some answers to that question. He’s a playmaker.
by NJ 49ers on Dec 20, 2009 5:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions
U can win SuperBowls without great QB’s, case and point Tren Dilfer.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget
Hostetler. Even Phill Simms was solid but not great. Oh and Rypien. And when you look at this list of QBs that have made the SB but lost, you realize how much of winning is a team game.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Davis is not a great quarterback either
So what’s the point go with someone with absolutely no experience or go with one who’s improving and with a better offensive line could make plays for the offense. I’m going with the guy with experience.
I’m sorry, i might be the only person here believing this, but look, unless he plays in a friggin game, nobody can truly say Nate Davis isn’t a great QB, NOBODY KNOWS
Putting Nate Davis...
Out against the Eagles with this O-Line would be a recipe to have a rookie QB carted off the field in a gurney.
My Dilfer comment was to establish that teams can win without Hall of Fame QB’s, nothing about that comment was against Smith.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
Davis (I'm guessing) doesn't know the playbook
He took 2 1/2 years to learn the college one, and the NFL is more complicated. Davis has a learning disability. He’s not there yet
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Knowing the plays maybe?
That was my attempted point.
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I read a story that he took 2 and a half years to learn his college playbook
and I was thinking the 9ers might be more complicated. My point was he didn’t pick up the playbook quickly in college and I don’t think that would change in the NFL. Maybe that’s just me
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I'm not sure
but given the fact that he has taken time in the past to learn playbooks, and he gets little to no reps I don’t think he’s ready. Maybe that’s just me
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The dude hasn't taken any reps in practice
I’d say that makes him “not there yet”.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Well then let’s get Davis some experience then. Put him in. He won’t be the only rookie qb to ever start a game.
by NJ 49ers on Dec 20, 2009 5:16 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I don’t know, at this point Smith needs all the playing time he can get.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
So we know whether or not he has hope
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
I suppose you have a better idea for QB?
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
Name one FA QB or draft QB that'll do better than Smith
that’s a realistic option
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i think there are many realistic
options..i think the unrealistic option is hoping and believing and fantasizing that Alex Smith will ever be anything more than a mediocre QB with the SF niners.
I think you need the dose of THAT reality my friend.
Name a few then bro
with your great football knowledge I’m sure you have a few up your sleeve
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by MadBum on Dec 20, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
you can take a condescending attitude with me fine.
but i’m not feeling like answering your attacks. Do me a favor…tell me what it’s going to take to see the Real Alex Smith. What is it going to take a Revamped Oline, 4-5 more years, More J. Raye putting him in shotgun…
With YOUR GREAT ENLIGHTENED football knowledge, how many more losses would have to happen to get you to admit A. Smith is epic fail?
Attack? I asked you a question
and since, as you put it you are ‘enlightened’ I’d figure you could come up with an answer. And did I ever say I was enlightened? The real Alex Smith comes when we get a capable offensive line and he gets more experience.
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capable offensive line?!
so frank gore rushing for a thousand won’t be good enough for you?
But really, how many more games, in your opinion does Alex need to gain this vital “experience” that is going change him and the 49ers? When does he, his performance become accountable in your mind?
comment
Honestly, if you think you’re right and he chooses to not respond, why not just let it go? Both of you are making this more personal than it really should be and it detracts from both of your arguments.
by David Fucillo on Dec 20, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
silence?
I guess I should be at your beck and call instead of looking at other things. Anyway, there is a definite difference between running and pass blocking and that is apparent. Smith was pressured nearly every single play when he dropped back
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beck and call? Woah don't get your panties in knot. we had actually started a real conversation instead of chip shots..
“Smith was pressured nearly every single play when he dropped back”
This is false. He was pressured. But most of the sacks, yawn, were because he holds onto the ball way too long as usual. He also ran out of protection of the pocket on several occaisons, leading to throw aways..
On one of his three interceptions, instead of making the obvious short pass to gore for a possible play, he tried to ? get it to VD while being slammed into the turf. That was a very easy interception.
In Contrast a well known 40 year old has been been chased by the dogs all night and keeping plays alive with his feet and throwing the ball down the field. I think the “pressure” excuse is mostly to blame on Smith holding the ball and not being able to move/escape and throw.
You do realize Minny has one of the best lines in the league?
on the 1st pick, Davis did not make an effort to do much of anything. He was, at times, sacked without even a chance to release the football. If that doesn’t show poor blocking, then I don’t think anything does. And Smith, while he does occasionaly hold the ball too long, was pretty quick in releasing the ball. And why would he hold the ball too long except for too look for receivers to get open? And I don’t see how me saying beck and call means I was getting my panties in a bunch, but whatever
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once again we're back to excuses---
its poor blocking, recievers taking too long, blah blah excuse, excuse. Ill agree there were some legitimate pressures because of the shoddy line, but good qb’s hit their hot reads, sell the screens, move their feet to buy time, and even run on occaison.
Alex doesn’t do these things effectively or consistently. He also throws innaccurately as others have noted on here. It’s most obvious on shorter routes when he throws 100mph when all it needs is a little touch pass.
All i’m saying is i don’t support him as our starting qb any longer. If you do —great-i think this off season we have to make a change. i gotta go take care.
Offseason?
I understand if you don’t like Smith’s season or how he plays. But the UFA class is bare of anything, and I think we learned that a rookie QB can’t play with a mediocre supporting cast. Smith has shown that he can hit the seam route with efficiency, and I’ve seen some encouraging signs in the shorter passing game.
All I’m saying is, give him another year and then evaluate him as a NFL QB. If he doesn’t improve, then let’s go get us a QB. But we haven’t seen enough to say he can’t do anything
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You want to give him experience?
He needs to start taking practice reps first.
He’s the 3rd QB, he hasn’t proven to the coaches that he’s better than Shaun Hill yet.
Until he does that, there will be no reps for him.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
Panthers Watch Thread now up
The Vikings and Panthers are kicking off in just a minute. Here’s a thread for that game:
http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/12/20/1210043/panthers-watch-2009-sunday-night
As for today
Three plays changed the game:
- Delanie’s fumble. Can’t put that on Smith, Raye or Sing. He fumbled when the team was going to have a first and goal. So it’s either 10-7 Niners or 7-6 Philly. Huge mistake.
- Smith’s third INT. All QBs throw INTs and the first was on both he and VD, whereas the second I give credit to Samuel. But that third one was reckless and gave Philadelphia 3 points. Dumb decision and he has played enough to know better.
- Phantom holding call on Chilo. Niners are either going to tie the game or make 20-16 and that BS flag gets thrown. Niners have certainly gotten the short end of 50/50 controversial calls this season and more specifically, should never have this group of officials again (these are the idiots from the season opener who couldn’t count players on the field or downs).
That’s 9 – 17 swing in points. Can’t win on the road with that kind of stuff. Period.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Yeah...
That third INT, if I’m remembering correctly, was made as Smith was being sacked. He was attempting to dump the ball but couldn’t elevate it enough to get throw it away. It wasn’t a smart throw.
What makes it worse
It’s less than 30 seconds to the half. If a play isn’t there, take the sack. We either punt or run the clock out. It was only a 14 point game and we were getting the 2nd half KO. Nothing to panic about and yet he made a dumb “hero” decision when one was not required.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
It was a panic throw...
It was the only real panic throw he made all afternoon, but it was still a panic throw. Fix the O-Line, those become much less common
i thought the first
int he threw was the real momentum killer we forced them to punt being down 7-3. We got the ball back and underthrows a ball into double coverage. They instantly get the ball back with good field position.
Those type of plays, Alex specials, kill the defense.
That really wasn't double coverage
His pass was a bit too much to VD’s left but Davis has to fight for the ball. Either catch it or make sure it’s not an INT. The safety covered a lot of ground and made a play. Sometimes you have to credit the opponent.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
well throwing well low
in between the corner and safety and not over the opposite shoulder certainly isn’t good throwing mechanics….
i think fault for this play was mostly on Alex…VD may, possibly broken it up if he’d tried..but he didn’t…the bigger question is why not? Maybe he doesn’t have faith in Smith.
yeah....
i am really tired of the controversial calls going against the Niners
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 20, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Wow, perfect quote from Damon Bruce on postgame, the niners are STILL using their last 2 games to evaluate Alex Smith. I just don’t get it, he’s a 5 year veteran, anddddd we’re still EVALUATING him, sure he’s been out for a year or two but cmon
Uh oh PIKA. Prepare for the Alex Smith groupie wrath. MadBum thinks he’s the 15th best QB in the league
Swear to god, why is it so hard to understand? I think that
a. he shouldn’t be judged on his rookie year, when he was 21 and playing for an awful team
b. he had some really nice games under Norv Turner, and he was looking great at the end of the ‘06 season
c. he had a couple of good games in ’07 before his shoulder blew up
d. his performance after his shoulder blew up shouldn’t count against him
e. he’s had some great games this year, and he’s had some awful games this year
So I’m a groupie? Because I don’t purport to know the answer to the question, “Can Smith be a good QB?”
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So Smith should of been lights out his rookie year if he had any real talent?
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
Your postneeds more excusescontains “context.” A nun at Catholic school used to beat me with context when I was very young, so I start twitching when arguments are made with context.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
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“Barbaro wasn’t so great. Why didn’t he win the Kentucky Derby this year?”
“Uh, because he’s dead.”
“Your post needs more excuses.”
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Me and you Grant
we’re just a bunch of groupies that dont understand real football
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Soooo he’s had a bad break… agreed on that one, so i guess the niners start him next year and see where it goes? with more time in the pocket it should be great… but fact of the matter is, is that i hope they come up with some sort of offensive scheme that works for Smith instead of doing what they did this year in changing it
I think that's a fair criticism
but I’ve liked what I’ve seen from this year. I think he’s going to be a good QB, better then any other option in the draft or FA
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by MadBum on Dec 20, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on guys...just because
he carries around an autographed A.Smith jockstrap does NOTmake him a groupie.
lol
know you are just getting ridiculous
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It's people like you that makes me wish our mods were stricter.
At FG you would have already been banned.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Man, you and allstar are really mature aren’t u? Running out of arguments for the removal of Smith so you revert to being a child? Nice.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
Alex Smith’s play is making a good argument for his removal. So maybe you shouldn’t Judge other peoples comments.
and maybe you should come up with a decent arguement
instead of saying I wear Alex Smith’s jockstrap. Find me a QB in FA or the draft that’s better than Alex. I took you up on this challenge earlier, and you still haven’t responded.
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So Smith’s 15 TD’s, 9 INT’s for the year, and may i point out the first time in his career he has thrown more TD’s then INT’s in a year, and his average 83.3 QB rating is the reason for his removal.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know if the 1st sentence is a shot at him
but this the 1st year he’s started since his 2nd one (I believe) and back than Battle was our #1. I agree with you on the stats though. He’s steadily improving
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Get a clue on the stats
its really convenient that you left out today’s stats from your line..
and its really sad you have to post under two different names for yourself.
Enough with the personal insults
I flagged your comment
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Resorting to insults again?
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no that was probably for your
childish comments. Oh and you want stats how about A. Smith’s record? 3-6…which could have easily been 2-7 without a tremendous effort from our defense. Smith led a horrible offense that just didn’t stink enough to win.
Quote one of my childish comments
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Nah man I just made a joke. The argument for removing Alex Smith is a simple one. He makes bad decisions, his accuracy is mediocre at best, he’s suprisingly unathletic, he doesn’t have a very strong arm. If he was so good why did Hill beat him out during the preseason.
But go head everyone. Coaching, o-line, injuries wa wa wa.
All I know is that theres a certain guy in Green Bay who was drafted the same year as the great Alex Smith who plays on a team with a pretty bad offensive line. I’m sorry though I’m comparing Alex Smith to an elite guy which I was mocked for before. But if Alex Smith is actually good as you all seem to think shouldn’t you be comparing him to, you know, good QBs?
Name a QB that could replace him and be better
this offseason.
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Ah the old bend over and take it approach I like it.
Sign Jason Campbell, draft an OT and a QB, do something. Alex Smith will never lead this team to the Super Bowl. And thats what you play for buddy
Jason Campbell?
Jason Campbell is a better QB than Alex Smith? Really?
Wow
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Jason Campbell?
he’s very similar to Smith I’d say. Bradford or anybody we could draft isn’t going to do much. I never said Smith was going to lead us to a SB. Neither will Campbell
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All I know is that theres a certain guy in Green Bay who was drafted the same year as the great Alex Smith who plays on a team with a pretty bad offensive line.
Here’s the thing. You think that the people defending Smith think that he’s great. I don’t. I just don’t know yet. I’ve seen things that make me think he’s going to be good, I’ve seen things that make me think he’s going to be awful. My argument — and I’d say this applies to almost all of the Smith supporters — is that Smith is still an unknown quantity. He’s certainly closer to being a known quantity, though, than Colt McCoy or Jimmy Claussen, so it makes sense for Smith to start next year behind an improved line with an improved receiving corps in a system that’s best suited to his strengths.
But, by all means, pretend that comparing him to the other option in the draft is a valid substitute for player evaluation.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly, I don’t think anyone is mistaking Alex Smith for a future Hall of Famer, just that with the new weapons the team is acquiring and/or shaping, and with the possibility of better O-Line being signed/drafted that Smith needs to get a full training camp as the #1 with Crabs and VD practicing the new offense. Just throwing a offense into the playbooks half way through the season and making an unproven rookie one of the main targets of the passing game isn’t conducive to succees. Also having probably the worst starting O-Lineman in the game (Snyder) doesn’t help either.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
O.K. His beard is rugged though, i’ll give him that.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
… cmon, he’s fine in run blocking, but in pass protection he’s not great, but i wouldn’t call him the worst, but whatevahhh
His given up like 10 sacks on the year right?
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
Uh that was my last point but I can repeat the other stuff I said.
He doesn’t have a strong arm, he’s not very athletic, his accuracy is mediocre at best, and his decision making is not good. THIS IS HIS 5th SEASON! Maybe by year eight he’ll figure it out.
He doesn’t have a strong arm, he’s not very athletic, his accuracy is mediocre at best, and his decision making is not good.
Disagree, disagree strongly, agree completely, agree somewhat. The two points I agree with are points that I hope will improve with experience, but I’m not sure they will, which is why I’m not predicting that Smith is going to be good. I just don’t know.
THIS IS HIS 5th SEASON! Maybe by year eight he’ll figure it out.
The “fifth season” line is such a red herring. You know why it’s disingenuous. Try harder. If he were starting every game during that time, you’d have a valid point. It would still need context — how good was his line? how good were his receivers? was he the youngest QB in the league for most of those years? — but it would be a valid point. As it stands, it has nothing to do with the points I raised.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just a question for you Grant, how much time would you give him to determine if he’s our QB for the future? like the whole year next year?
If he plays like today? Hell no. I think today is an outlier, but if he continues to play like this with a better team and more experience, I’ll drive him to the waiver wire myself.
If he doesn’t have Seattle-type games more often than not by the end of next year, the Niners can’t look back.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
You give him...
All of this off season, all of training camp, and all of next season. Provided the O-Line has been fixed and that’s a huge caveat, if things still aren’t clicking for whatever reason – then you should think about looking for another QB.
i disagree
i think in this amount of time we know what to expect from A. Smith = losing seasons, overthrown passes, happy feet, and predictability. The announcers see it, the oppossing coaches see it, some enlightened fans here see it.
Why? What do you really think if we keep coddling Alex Smith, do you seem him becoming? Do you think he is going to suddenly change into Peyton Manning if we give him more games to throw away?
Enlightened?
Your arrogance makes me laugh
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by MadBum on Dec 20, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
look
you said you were enlightened, not me. Anyway, you have insulted me more than I have you. I just said you were being arrogant, which you were.
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I didn't start anything
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stop...both of you
There’s no value to this string of comments. Please stop.
by David Fucillo on Dec 20, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
+1000
Agreed. He’s shown tremendous upside, but he’s also made stupid mistakes and bad throws. I just happen to think you won’t be able to accurately evaluate Alex Smith and what he can or can’t do until:
- The O-Line is fixed
- The Offense has a training camp and off season to digest a playbook and build that chemistry and timing which is needed to properly execute an offense.
by sigma on Dec 20, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
the problem with this line of thinking
is there are always excuses why players don’t perform..
Once you get those fixed, Gore might be done, then it’ll be he needs a running back..Poor Alex, WAAAAAAA WAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAA
needs to stop.
When is his play accountable for Him in your minds?
The real answer is he is not accountable for his play and people make excuses for him.
All Star…Didn’t you know that all the good QBs in the league have perfect teams with no offensive weaknesses?
No
I didn’t get the email on that one…or the other one about getting slandered and name called if i used my 1st ammendment right of free speech to call out A. Smith.
Doesn't bother me
A number of players are being evaluated. Most of these guys will be back but some will either be replaced in the starting lineup or on the roster. With Alex I don’t so much think it’s evaluating what he can do but allowing him to get as many reps as possible. He needs to learn from his mistakes. He needs to develop a rapport with his receivers and best that Crabtree’s growth come with the same QB.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
yea, i agree, but i mean after 5 years wouldn’t he learn from his mistakes? the argument to that is he’s been hurt and the change in coordinators, the O-line sucks, bad WRs
Most of those mistakes were three years and two coordinators ago
So I don’t think it applies as well in the now. He’s a different guy on his own, more mature and I bet a bit more hardened by the whole injury/Nolan/criticism stuff plus marriage and death of his best friend. He’s also a bit different of a player with two seasons watching other guys play. And now he has real talent at the skill positions. I think any QB deserves some time to see what he can do, especially an offseason to work within the same system with the same players. HIs ceiling may be higher than this but lower than most fans want. But I’m willing to find out next year because with a better O-line, return game and pass rusher on defense, we will make the playoffs even with this year’s Smith.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Agreed, i’m just hoping the niners will find talent and positions of need in the draft because it’s just getting weird, i mean this season wasn’t BAD but it basically cleared up what the niners really need, someone to help the O-line and maybe a pass rusher?
Please oh please
There are five positions I want upgraded over all else: RT, pass rushing DE or OLB, LG and kick-returner, and nickel safety (bye-bye Roman).
These are the positions that constantly comes up as the weak areas. And though it sounds like an excuse, look at how difficult the Niners schedule has been this season. Not likely to be the case next year and far more difficult than last season. But I do believe it has helped with the overall growth of the team.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
At Indy, at Vikings, at Philly, at GB…. they should get a return man… a blocker, a someone to take over for Soap? i mean he’s been OK, Soaps not a pass rusher really, he’s listed as a DE isn’t he?
Ideal
Is someone like Dockett to replace Soap. He does well defending the run but it means zero pass rush or push on the pocket when teams pass on first down or second and short. Soap creates no negative plays. It would be nice to have a stout run defending DE who also makes 5-8 sacks per season and helps collapse the pocket on early downs so that our outside LBs could get some sacks.
As for the schedule, if you look at the top 5 teams in the NFC (NO, MIN, PHI, GB, AZ) the Niners have played four of them on the road, plus Indy who is now the best team in the league. That’s a death march for any young team.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
We also nees OLB’s that are fast enough to catch a QB.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
Hence why i never really expected this team to do well at all this season, i hate doing it because then you become disappointed… but it is tough to find a DE that does that
It's why I didn't buy the top-10 defense claim
Only if you can rush the passer and have one great rusher who demands a double team every play while still getting 10+ sacks. We don’t have that.
It is tough to find that kind of player but I would look to spend one of the two first rounders on such a player, with the other being a OL, is such players are available where we are picking.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Not to mention...
We’ve all seen significant improvements in Smith’s play over the course of this year, especially when compared to past seasons.
- His pocket presence is much better
- His accuracy is much better
- His mechanics are much better
- His decision making is much better (only had one really stupid pass this game)
There is a significant amount of talent there. You just need to spend the next off season ironing out the miscommunications and building a rapport between the QB and his receivers. Oh, and fixing the O-Line.
Don’t bother with data and logic, some people are never sated with facts.
by Hoopers Judge on Dec 20, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
Aren't you the one who wants Jason Campbell?
Who is 4-9 this year?
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I’m sorry, i’m not that in depth into looking how a QB gets better… i just look at stats and how the O-line does, a few throws today he made some bad throws, but whatever, guess it happens… Until next year, getting used to saying it, but hey, as a warriors fan, i’m very patient
Warriors fan...
Well that explains a good deal.
Every single one of those bad throws came under a tremendous amount of pressure from the Philly defense that was made worse because we weren’t calling high percentage passing plays. What made it worse was they were getting pressure with three and four rushers, dropping everyone else into coverage.
He’s been in the league for 5 years, and he still hasn’t been able to accomplish a shred of consistency. His pocket presence is better? No it isn’t- he still tends to panic or eye the reciever down before passing. His accuracy has been better… At times. Other times, it’s as awful as it has ever been. Could you let me know how you determine that his mechanics are better? He looks the same to me. His decision making is slightly better, but he still makes awful decisions on a regular basis.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 20, 2009 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
It's 2.5 years
Shoulder kept him out for almost two years. He didn’t start until the after halfway through his rookie season. He’s been in for half a season. The offense was supposed to be run dominated, not pass dominated. They haven’t had a training camp to get the TE’s and WR’s and QB all on the same page.
It’s simple. Give them some time and offensive continuity to develop chemistry between the OC and the QB and the WR’s. You can’t change everything every year and expect it to magically all snap into place.
Great line by D. Bruce on the postgame show just now.
“If DeSean Jackson is electricity Arnaz Battle is rubbing two sticks together.”
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 5:33 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Bowl game thread
The New Orleans Bowl just kicked off. Drew K put together a thread for it with some players to look out for:
http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/12/20/1207912/bowl-games-gameday-thread-sunday
I would love to see
great quarterbacking for the Niners, whether it’s Smith or someone else.
I’d like a more ferocious pass rush, and a much much better offensive line.
Etc., etc.
No need to hate on Smith. Either he’s the best the Niners have now or the coach and GM are the ones who need to be replaced.
by Bob In Beaverton on Dec 20, 2009 5:46 PM PST reply actions
I'd like to see a competent offensive line.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
and in fact,
without a good OL, it makes no sense to try to break in some new QB – who probably won’t be that good.
I would be OK with drafting a rookie in the 2nd or 3rd round, some under the radar Ivy league guy, or a big running QB.
But a good team with a good line, good back and a good defense can win with Alex Smith playing his Smith-y average self. The division is not strong, and probably won’t be next year either.
Although:
1) I would have a 2 year plan for a new QB, with the assumption that Smith can’t cut it in 2010
2) If there is another coaching change (OC, HC), I’m dropping Smith. New guy better come with a QB.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I agree
but we won’t have a new coach next year and Sing is sticking with Smith.
I wouldn’t mind us picking up a QB in the later rounds of the draft. We improve the line, give Smith next year and see what we have.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
I think we have a good idea who Smith is. I think we should give Nate a chance. I never saw him in college but I know he’s talented. He looked real good in preseason playing against those third stringers. Lol. I think if he played with Crabs, VD and Gore he’ll make plays and do a good job. Let’s just try it. It could answer a lot of questions before the draft.
by NJ 49ers on Dec 20, 2009 6:15 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Alex Smith is too inconsistent. As this thread exemplifies, there will always be people who inexplicably support him and make excuses, but despite the flashes of brilliance he’s shown the guy is too inconsistent to be an NFL starter. I mean, we could keep playing this game of remembering the games when he performed well and writing off the bad ones as a result of bad coaching/ play-calling/ whatever, or we can accept the fact that he just doesn’t have what it takes. I, for one, am ready to move on to the next quarterback… You guys can do whatever you want.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
Inexplicable?
I understand if you disagree with me, but I don’t know if inexplicable is the right terminology here
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
My bad. Change that to, “Misguidedly”
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 20, 2009 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
I guess that's better
We can agree to disagree on Smith
On the "Brian Sabean should be fired" bandwagon
I want winners...and Eric Berry
What about the defense?
As far as I’m concerned, a lot of this falls on them. Didn’t Philly basically drive the length of the field twice?
It's the offensive co-ordinator!!!!!!!!!!!
Get rid of the guy! The Niner offense has no punch, no excitement, no nothing. Add up the stats and compare to others, Look at the trends of absolutly no improvements. Next year will be worse if the guy is still around.
no improvements?
I guess Vernon Davis still sucks.
Let’s cut him.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 20, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
Judge Alex Smith on the next two bottom feeders.
If Alex doesn’t win them both, find a way of getting rid of him also. It’s win or bust for also.
Niners will have to go looking for a real QB with an arm and some smarts.
well
I saw enough to think that we should go in another direction 2 backup QB starting time for a new one.
Let's get the division!
by chriscream on Dec 20, 2009 7:20 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Everything went as I figured.
Horrible offensive line and horrible pass rushing being the main culprits. Alex Smith did what I figured he would given what little he had to work with. He’s still the needed QB for next year and with the right player moves, should have the breakout season he’s sorely been needing. Easier said than done considering we need a complete overhaul of the OL. All this game did was expose what I knew were the problems all along and what has been the main problems for the past 4-5 years. Alex Smith has exceeded my expectations this season and is among the least of our worries… for now. If he blows either of the last two games, then I’d carry issues.
I said somewhere that we had a better chance at being blown out than to win that game. Neither really happened which is where I expected it.
by Ovalshine on Dec 20, 2009 8:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
child please
i’m done with listening to folks who think alex is gonna have a breakout season one day. losers always make excuses for him. it’s always his o line, he had too many oc’s, too many offensive schemes to learn. some of this is legit but i hate smith groupies because they never let alex take responsibility for his mistakes. they just make excuse after excuse. the kid just isn’t good. he isn’t having a breakout year next yr. we need a good, solid, consistent qb NOW. it’s not smith.
"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai
Upgrade on QB in 2011
The Niners should upgrade in QB in 2011. Whoever plays QB next year of the three, hardly worth worrying about. The offseason should focus on the OL. Cutting whatever players to get the right OL players is the key, then go from there. The defense can continue to carry the team, and a new OL coach should be found that is the primary area of GM and Coach attention. The OL had a lot of good games and moments, and a lot of not so good ones. I think the Niners are an adequate and even pretty good team. But they are stuck until the QB and runners can develop some confidence. The Eagles are way too good, at home, to beat (at home we might have done it, ala Raiders). Anger at the team for not winning there is absurd. Similarly absurd would be to use high draft picks for offense skill positions.
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