49ers QB Alex Smith and batted down passes
Although the 49ers pulled out the win, there were certainly plenty of issues coming out of the Lions game, most noticeably on offense. One that arose has been an issue for several weeks now: the batted down passes. It seems like every week we see Alex Smith passes getting batted down left and right by the defensive line. Two weeks ago, Darnell Dockett snatched his deflection for an interception. That's the only one that's been picked, but that certainly doesn't make the problem any better.
My question is what has been the cause of this problem, and what possible solutions there are to the problem (although these two things might not be mutually exclusive). Coach Singletary was asked about the issue in his post-game press conference and he said:
We just have to clear guys out of the way. I think sometimes you play teams defensive, that they go, ‘1,001. 1,002. 1,003. Get your hands up and bat down the ball.' And when the defense does that, if they're not getting the kind of pressure that they want, it happens, unless the offensive line starts cutting the guys. So, that's normally the way that works.
So, according to this it would seem to fall on the offensive line. At the same time, I recall somebody mentioning in the comments that one of the deflections occurred when Smith threw the ball after a defender had his hands in the air. If that's the case, that kind of deflection would seem to fall on Smith. One would think he would need to either throw to one side of the defender, or take a step in the pocket and then make the throw around the defender.
Those critical of the line would say they need to keep these defenders from getting in the air. Those critical of Smith would say he needs to move around more in the pocket. Or, of course, it could be a combination of both. Given how frequently the deflections seem to be happening, this would seem to be an important issue to address. Alex Smith completed 64% of his passes yesterday (even if some of them were check-offs), but even still he could have been so much more productive if he could avoid these deflections along the line.
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Not really sure...
but I too was wondering why the heck a lot of his pass attempts get batted down. I didn’t really see this issue with Shaun Hill and understandably some passes will get knocked down at the line of scrimmage but 4 to 5 times a game on crucial downs? I’m not so sure whats going on there; I do agree the o line can do a better job at keeping the defenders on the ground but when I watch other teams play like the saints I don’t really see a lot of cutting at the line. And maybe I’m wrong but Drew Brees is only 6’0 and Alex Smith is listed at 6’4 so it clearly is not a height thing. So that makes me begin to think that Alex Smith is more at fault than the O line.
"Of all the things in the world losing isn't so bad; it just starts to feel like it does when you do it for so long"
4 to 5 times a game on crucial downs?
Well, let’s be fair. It’s obviously a problem, but it’s not happening 4 to 5 times per game. And the “crucial downs” thing is more than likely just a coincidence, if it exists at all.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 28, 2009 7:58 AM PST up reply actions
I hope in the offseason, Alex can practice the pump fake more. I’ve seen him do it occasionally, but a good pump fake will cause the DL to jump in the air.
Of course, I don’t expect him to turn into Big Ben with his pump fakes, but I think realistically if he can use them more often next year it could only help.
pump fake
yes. I sure hope that once he get’s an O-Line that he gains some comfort and patience in the pocket. Enough to make good play-action fakes and to learn the art of looking a defender off and using the pump fake.
"Vernon is going to be a great tight end one day, but he's got to put the whole package together." - Thanks Sing for echoing this.
Also sliding in the pocket...
…ala Drew Brees to find better passing lanes. Come to think of it, Smith should spend the offseason watching video of Peyton and Drew.
At first I thought that it was smith, but after the lions blocked a field goal and got pieces of a PAT and a punt, I’m more inclined to say that this has more to do with the line getting pushed around by the other team
(partially) blocked kicks
Thank you, emanziboy, for what I think is the most intelligent comment in this thread. Coach Singletary appears to agree.
by seafood lover on Dec 28, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
I have noticed that our OL automatically drops back.
Most other OLines, like Detroit’s, either hold the line in passing downs or even move forward on running plays. Our OLines does neither.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I believe that traditional blocking schemes call for the offensive line to “push” on running plays and to “fall back” into a pocket on passing plays. So what you’re describing doesn’t sound abnormal to me.
I know that some line schemes, like the one in Indianapolis, are designed to “push” on every play. But to my knowledge, that’s a relatively new trend in the league.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 28, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
To add:
You did observe that our O-Line isn’t getting any “push” on running plays, which, of course, is a major problem.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 28, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
And remember the 49ers when they said they wanted to be a RUNNING TEAM? what happened to that? It’s probably because of what you said dude, "our O-Line isn’t getting any “push” on running plays"
Were they not basically that yesterday?
Their three best plays (Crabtree pass, 4th down to Frank, TD to VD) were on playaction passes. So I think it at least made a point that if they run enough times, the pass can become more effective.
Yea, see, look what happens when you run playaction… But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, this was against the LIONS
True
However I think it does say something positive knowing that Alex is showing signs that he can make something happen even when he’s not in the shotgun.
Yep, i’m thankful for that, and hope he can improve on that, and make some plays by himself finally, because it just seemed the Defense really gave him a shot, our defense forcing how many turnovers? 5?
And yet another game won by the defense, i think pretty much every game Smith has won, it’s by the defense
Yup
Rod Brooks made that point last week. The games this team has won have been mainly where the defense has had a large effect on their success.
If and when the offense finally develops an identity (NEXT YEAR PLEASE!!) will they make that extra push to get back into the postseason.
I see your point
Though, mainly in the fact that they passed like 17 times in a row to end the first half.
this is nothing new
this happens to him every year. with different o lines too. hopefully he knows it’s a problem and works on it. Pump fakes? i don’t think that he has enough time in the pocket anyways.
At least we haven’t heard about the “small hands” thing in quite a while.
smith
he seems like he can not find himself to calm down he is ok at hitting his first read but tends to lock on it for to long. his second reads seem to be rushed and far more less accurrate.
Lack of adjustment, or innacuracy
You can put some of the blame at the feet of the O-line, but they can’t be expected to move every defensive player out of the way on every play. The QB needs to adjust position to throw around or over the arms of the defenders, Alex seems to have a problem doing this which makes me wonder if he throws the ball exactly how he threw it in practice on each play and isn’t taking notice of the arms that go up.
This is nothing new. Smith has always had a lot of passes batted down since his career started.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
that’s what i said too. but i think the frequency of it is a lot more becausw defenses see it happen so often and know that all they have to do is get their hands up and good things will happen for them.
by srill waiting on Dec 28, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions
It's not actually happened all that much this year
Yesterday’s game was the exception, not the rule
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
The last two games it happened a lot.
Smith tends to telegraph his passes. On one play (and all the replays of this play) I noticed that the defender had his arm up and Smith threw it into the arm. But the arm was up before he threw.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
that was a good movie
“you’re the exception not the rule” for those who don’t know thats “He’s just not that into you” chick movie yes but hella truth in it.
"Of all the things in the world losing isn't so bad; it just starts to feel like it does when you do it for so long"
by ninerfanNVA on Dec 28, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I actually think Alex needs to move around in the pocket less,
not more. He tends to get happy feet and starts running before he has to. Not that I blame him with the rush the Lions had yesterday but I think it affects his accuracy and his downfield throwing.
Regarding the batted down balls—they almost all happen when he’s throwing from under center. I think it’s a combination of his throw being flatter, and him not doing a great job disguising when he’s going to throw it. I’d like to see him do more pump fakes but that’s something that will come with more familiarity with the offense.
It’s also a bit on the O-line too. They were not giving Alex much in the way of throwing lanes yesterday. They made the Lions defensive line look like Pro-Bowlers yesterday.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
One batted pass that I saw..
Was one where a defender on Smith’s left had his hand up a few moments before Smith made his decision, and then Smith then threw to that lane right into the defenders hand. That’s more about Smith’s vision, and one reason why those balls get batted down.
Well, we're waiting....
Slightly OT: What's Smith's current contract situation?
I know he had restructured his rookie contract prior to this season (for a lot less money) but did he get an extension or is next season the final year of that contract?
Win the inning.
correction
Actually, he’s signed through 2010. He’s a free agent after next season
by David Fucillo on Dec 28, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
From what I gather Smith doesn't get comfortable in the pocket, even when he has one, since he isn't used to having time.
One bat down that occured the routes downfield had not even developed and he dumped down to Gore and had time to wait on routes. He will struggle initially in the beginning of next season because he isn’t used to good protection and he doesn’t have any pocket presence. He is not the guy staring down the barrel of a gun and delivering. Our OL needs to improve but he also needs to get more comfortable with the OL and the WR options. Personally I think he isn’t accurate enough to be the guy but I would give him next year to be sure.
True knowledge is knowing you know nothing!
Trade up for Berry Scot it's the move to make. "Who is Berry?"..............Here we go again!!
I agree, the niners need to improve the O-line if they want to get somewhere… But yea, there were a few passes where they were behind the receiver…. I guess you could say it has something to do with the comfort level, but yea i just don’t know bout his accuracy
Missed high
He did make one throw where he appeared to force it in to D-Walker in the endzone. But he missed high and it made me think he was trying to put some touch on it rather than just flat out missed him.
It's a bit of everything and everyone
When it happens that often. The O-line gives up too much push; Smith telegraphs quick throws, especially on third down when pressure is coming; defenses know that we’re likely to run short routes thus the trajectory is easier to block and quick pass plays are easier to predict.
Smith needs to work on sliding in the pocket and finding passing lanes. The line needs to work on giving him passing lanes and not getting flat beaten or pushed back. Raye and Johnson need to design pass plays that mesh with the blocking scheme to allow a passing lane for the QB. And lastly, the team needs to throw a few more moderate to deep passes to break the predictability factor, even if they have to max protect to make it happen.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Yea, i mean, it seems the O-line has alot to do with the problems on offense, and it’s well deserved, they just never get a push on the O-line… I think with Raye and JOhnson needing to design pass plays, well given that they changed the system half way into the season to compensate Smith, it’s understandable that they didn’t have more interesting plays…
THe team definitely needs to throw moderate and deep passes because it almost seemed like every play last year was a freakin dump off to the back or a tight end, it was pathetic
Innovation
Raye definitely seemed to show some of it yesterday, and I just hope they keep doing that, especially when there is still something to play for! :)
career back up
Alex Smith does not need to be a starting QB in the NFL. He’d be a reliable back up, but that’s the extent of his “talent”.
Soooo the niners are out of luck until they have a legit QB, how does one suppose the niners get a QB that’s not a “career back up”
If I knew the answer to that I’d have a very lucrative career in the NFL. I’m just saying that five to six years is long enough to evaluate talent, and he just doesn’t have it.
Simple reason
He hasn’t had anyone on the coaching staff (OC) to help develop him for more than one year. Your statement will be much more valid after next season, that way there will be no more excuses other than he just doesn’t have the talent to be an NFL QB.
So who do you propose starts for the team next year?
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 28, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
did culpepper audition yesterday? lol
by srill waiting on Dec 28, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
If we have a good draft and want to keep Smith as starter for one more year, I’m not completely opposed to the idea. But if it ends up being more of the same old Alex, I might have a coronary before the season ends. Whatever happens, I love my niners and will be forever faithfull.
Your comment appears to be well researched and supported.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 28, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
lol
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Dec 28, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
?
Why are we all ignoring the fact that Shaun Hill had the exact same problem when he was the starter?
Shaun Hill was always getting passes batted down at the LOS and I believe he fumbled like 4 times in his 5 games (because defenders were hitting his arm as he threw).
I’m pretty sure it’s either the blocking scheme or the LMAO-linemen not executing.
(although I will acknowledge that one of the passes that was batted down yesterday was entirely on Smith)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
IC we agree quite a bit.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Dec 28, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
Shaun Hill's delivery..
was something that everybody harped on. It’s faster than Smith’s, but loopy. Smith’s release is slower, even in a shotgun. He still has a long windup, albeit faster that it was.
Well, we're waiting....
Smith's release may be slower...
But he’s not fumbling and he’s not taking sacks because of it.
If this problem (balls batted down at LOS) continues next season, then we can say it’s on Alex.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 28, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
Kurt Warner has a lot of passes batted also. Personally, I lean towards Alex Smith not being much worse in this stat than most QB. Does anyone know if this stat is kept and can be found anywhere on the interweb?
My gut tells me that if there is a problem here, most of the blame here lies with the coaches- Jimmy Raye and O-line coach.
Isn’t there something called “passing lanes”, where a QB is theoretically supposed to be able to throw the ball without having it get tipped? One issue with passing lanes is that the O-line’s lameness forces Smith out of the pocket and he loses the lanes. Another problem is that he needs to get rid of the ball so fast he doesn’t have time to get separation from the line that would give him a better passing angle.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
this
coupled with the fact that we run slants or a dive every third-and-short situation has defenders pretty keyed in to these short drop slant passes. It seems like this is what a lot of these drops stem from.
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 29, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
the o-line is a fractual oline staley is a pass block good but a run block poor and is our best olinemen we got. baas is a avg run blocker and above avg passblocker. and the next best linemen we got. the rest are were hopeful draft picks eric h. was a west coast olinemen that was our best linemen we had until he broke his leg and has steadly go down hill since. rachal was suppose to be a great run blocker and the rt position was by commity and our greates need that we did not address but try in fa and it failed. and singtary wanting to see what cody wallace can do at center leads me to believe that eric’s days are short. so that tells me they are looking to replace at least one other linemen beside rt. and that they may be looking for 3 new linemen. alex does not always throw over the top and he’s trying to get the ball to any reciever becuase of how little time he is getting. here is how bad our oline is we have failed all 4th down and inches no matter who has carried the ball.. there is no sucess running the ball for short yardage. there is no forward push. there is no drive to get it.. we have very subpar oline and the defferent parts of oline does not match up and to bring it upto par it going to take at least 3 olinemen to fix. you have to have 3/5 of the line being the same oline make up. we need 3 great players . that means 3 olinemen that are considered great or good passblockers and good run blockers and the reason for great or good passblockers is on third down they only need help from the backs is picking up blitzs. becuase 3rd and long happens and they have to hold the line they have to give the qb all the time he needs to get the yardage need

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