Alex Smith, Frank Gore, and the 49ers offensive philosophy
We all agree that yesterday's loss was about as brutal as they come. Throw in a Cardinals win to push us to the precipice of playoff elimination, and the time is fast approaching for us to start peaking peeking ahead to the offseason and beyond. I certainly am not ready to completely give up on this season, but I can read the writing on the wall.
Accordingly even I am willing to look ahead to the offseason and to the 2010 season. This is particularly true when discussion the quarterback position, and its relationship to the 49ers offensive philosophy. We all know the offensive line has been a major issue this season, and will hopefully be addressed in a big way this offseason (pun partially intended). Even with potential additions to the offensive line, the team's offensive philosophy remains a question mark. I know we can't resolve the entire issue at this point, but it'd be nice to "explore the studio space" as we start looking to next season.
In order to have this discussion, we first have to address the position of quarterback. Alex Smith had one of his best games ever as a pro yesterday. While he was not able to drive down the field for the win at the end, he continued to show some of the skills people have been waiting on for five years. Given how awful the field position was for the 49ers for most of the day, he managed to make things happen. He's improved in a variety of areas, even if the team's record (I refuse to say his record when it's a team stat) does not reflect Smith's improvement.
There are still four games to go, and with two coming against potential playoff teams (Arizona, Philly), there is still a lot of value to be had in this remaining quarter of the season. If the season ended today, I'd be willing to wager that Alex Smith would be the starting QB at the start of the 2010 training camp. He's not perfect as a QB (that last drive shows that), but I can accept that he's shown enough improvement to warrant being the starting QB in 2010 (even if the team drafts another QB). Obviously this could change, but we'll just have to work with what we know for now. I figure we'll have enough time during the dog days of the offseason to debate this issue once more information (e.g. Weeks 14-17) becomes available.
I've thrown up a poll just to see what people are thinking, even though we've got an important month of games left in the Alex Smith evaluation process.
After the jump, we apply the above information to the 49ers offensive philosophy going forward...
So, let's assume Alex Smith is the starting QB in 2010. Whether this is what you're hoping for or not, I think at this point it's safe to say it's going to happen (barring injury). People talk about his greater ability in the proverbial Raye-gun offense (courtesy of Matt Barrows). I'm wondering a couple things as it relates to that offensive style. First off, if the 49ers actually put out an improved offensive line that could get push in the rushing game and provide real protection in the passing game, is the shotgun a necessity? Is Alex Smith's success in the shotgun a matter of him simply needing the time it might give him to pass the ball, or does it drastically affect his ability to view the field?
I ask this because it brings us to the second issue of Frank Gore's role going forward. Through 12 games, Gore has rushed for 643 yards on 128 carries (5.0 ypc). The problem with that total is that 223 of those yards came on 3 carries, which leaves Gore with 420 yards on 125 carries (3.36 ypc). At the beginning of this season, Mike Singletary spoke of wanting a smash-mouth offense. As the season developed though, it became clear the passing attack was carrying the team.
Now, I'm not advocating trading Frank Gore. Not even remotely. Gore is one of their biggest receiving threats (#2 in receptions) and has improved his breakaway ability, as opposed to being dragged down from behind as happened so often in the past. The question is how the team can reconcile Frank Gore with the offense in place. Frank Gore seemingly rushes better out of the I-formation with a lead fullback. If the team decides they're going to stick with the shotgun, what comes of the running game.
On the one hand I find myself optimistic about the future of this team. I think Alex Smith is showing actual development and I think he can guide this team to the playoffs in 2010 with the right personnel. However, personnel are only part of the equation. The team needs to figure out a complete offensive identity. Bignerd made a good point yesterday:
Use the time [remaining this season] to develop a real offense.
Neither the 2.2 yards and Cloud of Dust or The Greatest Marginal Show on Grass offense is going to work. No more gimmicks, quick fixes, etc. Find a philosophy that uses Gore, VD, Crabtree, Morgan and Smith or it’s never going to work.
This team needs to figure out its offensive identity heading into 2010. I realize a lot of folks are down on Jimmy Raye, but I actually think what bignerd mentioned is one reason to keep Raye. Raye has shown a willingness to adapt his play-calling, even if it's been from one extreme to the next. I know I can't be the only person curious to see what would happen with a full offseason of having the same offensive coordinator and the same starting QB. Furthermore, with Alex Smith in particular, one would hope this kind of continuity would be an even bigger deal.
Maybe I'm over-emphasizing the value of this, but it's still something that has to be factored into the offense's development beyond just adding offensive linemen. The offense has developed over the course of the season, even if it's been in fits at times and has been rather herky-jerky. It seems to me to be a sign that it's not just a stagnant offense going nowhere. Now, whether that means it develops into a consistent play-making offense next season? Lord only knows.
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242 comments
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Comments
Signs of Life
Look this team has shown signs of life this year and has been horrible the previous 6 with no hope. We need consistency at OC and QB for more than one season to truly see if we are heading the right direction. The Bi-polar fans that call for the coaches head after every loss needs to learn a little patience. I don’t care if you brought in Bill Walsh for this season it would still take time for the players to get to where they need to be and we would probably be in the same place we are now (minus some of the game management stuff possibly). Next year will be a completely different story. Good or bad we can make a educated decision at least.
by DCSMITH722 on Dec 7, 2009 8:13 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Continuity and balance (plus a couple of O Linemen)...
If there has ever been a team more in need of these things, I haven’t seen it. Trying not to be too biased, look at what the 49ers have:
1. A 25 year old starting QB with 13TDs and 7 INTS. Solid if unspectacular – but certainly showing improvement. Smith would seemingly benefit the most from an offseason with Crabtree, Davis, Morgan, etc.
2. A top 10 running back who, while not perfect, is damn good. Gore runs hard, catches the ball out of the backfield well and pass protects exceptionally well. Yesterday’s fumble was tough to take, but frankly, there were many other reasons for that loss.
3. A tight end and WR with pro bowl skills. Both Davis and Crabtree desperately need time to continue their development and would benefit from continued work with Smith.
These are great building blocks for a very good offense, but they need time to gel. They also need balance, which has been in short supply with the 49ers this year. Has anyone EVER seen a team change it’s entire offensive philosophy so drastically mid season? And while I certainly didn’t enjoy watching Gore plow into 8 man stacked defensive sets time after time, the “RayeGun” is just as perplexing.
For example, yesterday, it sure seemed that the 49ers took control of the game early and with a consistent, balanced attack, would win rather convincingly. The 49ers though seem to have gone from wildly unimaginative to backyard scrimmage triple lateral crazy in the blick of an eye. Punt return reverse, two play action passes from the 2 yard line (question: if you know that you are going to go for it on 4th down, don’t you run it twice there?), 15 yard passes when a 4 yard completion would suffice? Schizophrenic, thy name is Mike Singletary…
When all is said and done this year, I hope that Singletary and Raye sit down and digest what happened this year. I think that they will realize that this offense, with some line improvement, has the tools to be an effective, multi-dimensional one with the ability to attack whatever the defense gives them. Gonna stack the box – here comes Davis, Walker and Crabtree. Playing nickel – we’re gonna run it down your throat. Hopefully, with some balance, the logistical organization and on field execution will improve accordingly.
"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."
by Mcamp49 on Dec 7, 2009 8:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
As for number 2, I’m beginning to wonder if we as 49er fans are putting too much stock in Frank Gore as a runner.
No, I do not envy him for the line he has to run behind. Yes, I do still think that he’s a fantastic pass blocker and a very good receiver out of the backfield. But he hasn’t been running like the Frank of old for more than a year now. And this is my opinion taking the offensive line into account. He doesn’t really keep moving his legs at the ends of runs. He goes down a little easier. It looks to me like he’s protecting his body more after sustaining a few injuries the last few years, which is good for him, but bad if the production wanes.
And it’s not a ridiculous notion even on the face of it. Running backs are notoriously short-lived, and he’s taken a pounding without ever having a reliable backup to take the heat off.
And all of this isn’t to say that he’s done. The O-Line is culprit #1. For the sake of the entire offense, we need to get this O-Line straightened out before anything else. But once the O-Line is straightened out, I’m not convinced that we aren’t too far from needing to think about life after Frank.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair question
Gore has certainly taken a beating the last few years. Personally, I think he is still a very effective player with a few solid years left in him, but I do agree that Coffee seeing the field more next year is probably a good thing. As you said though, first things first. Two new guards and a right tackle are all I want for Christmas…
"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."
by Mcamp49 on Dec 7, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you there
In that maybe the team should start thinking about life after Frank, but not to the extent of totally dumping Gore to the curb. If the team can land a great chance of pace back, an actual change of pace back, Gore’s value to the club increases. He is excellent on 3rd downs, and can break off big runs here and there, but the team really needs a different style of runner to dip into Gore’s playing time.
by Andrew Davidson on Dec 7, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jahvid Best!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Dec 7, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Over-Rated. Clap, Clap, Clap Clap Clap.
I don’t know how to scout Best at this point. He had a pretty disappointing year, and didn’t show the strength I was hoping he’d have. He was often outplayed by Vereen even though Vereen was getting significantly fewer touches, and when Best went down with the concussion, I think we ran better with Vereen as the starter.
Best is obviously a toolsy, shifty, speedy guy. But this season just made me question him.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cal had a disappointing year alltogether though.
I’d hate to miss out on Best the same way we missed out on DeSean Jackson.
Not saying Best will be as good in the NFL as Jackson is, mind you, but I’d rather have Jackson than Balmer or Rachal, and I think Best would be a good guy to pair up with Gore, a good change of pace.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Dec 7, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
SCREW YOU, KEVIN RILEY! IT WAS SAID YOU WOULD DESTROY DEFENSES, NOT PLAY INTO THEIR HANDS! YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO CAL’S OFFENSE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS!
(Kevin Riley screams “I HATE YOU!”)
YOU WERE OUR QUARTERBACK, RILEY! WE LOVED YOU!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted to say. . .
Cal had nothing to lose, they just in a way chose which bowl game they wanted to play in?
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If my team had no chance of playing on Jan 1st, where would I rather play (and hang out beforehand), San Diego or El Paso? I pick the former.
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just realized that this was my second Episode III drop of the day. If I can find an appropriate place to lay down a Yoda “I must go into hiding” or a robot “she lost the will to live” I might break my old record.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would have been funnier if we had actually loved Kevin Riley at any point.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
is your sig quote
from sing? regarding Reggie Smith?
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was actually a typo I made one time. I thought it was funny, and I was getting tired of my old sig because it was kind of preachy.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
I seem to remember a gentleman names Bears Beat Air Force; All Aboard the Riley Train doing pretty well in the prediction game one week.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Dec 7, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*named
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Dec 7, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“We” implies more than one, though.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think...
… Best is as good as Reggie Bush was in his USC days, and we all see what Bush is doing on one of the most prolific offenses in recent memory with the Saints.
by sfgfan on Dec 8, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Touchdown Toby
If you want a smashmouth guy… He’s the one. He’s not going to break any TD’s but when its 2nd and 7 it would be nice to get a consistant 4 or 5 from a guy that will make people go SPLAT.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought...
…that Florida Danny had a great insight recently about Gore being a “boom-bust” back whose value is less because of his inconsistency. On a tangential note, given how often Gore has been targeted with passes, perhaps we can get a back who specializes in that skill, and leave Frank to just concentrate on running and blocking.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
we love him. he’s been nothing but good to us. hardworking, not self-serving…and he has all the talent in the world in some areas…his vision of late has really gotten on my nerves though. I hope to heck that Rathman is working on this with Frank. He has missed some BIG cutback lanes this year because he ran into the pile.
I’m wondering though, is Coffee having a hard time picking up the offense? Why is he rarely on the field? He should see a series each half at least…on first and second down anyways.
I also agree the team needs to be mindful of life after Frank. If we drafted a shifty guy with return skills in the 3rd round or later I would hope he sees time in the offense as well as a true change of pace back, as Andrew said.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gore's style...
I’ve seen Gore take over in games when they just keep feeding him the rock, and he’s the rare type of back that goes off when he’s getting hit. I don’t see this new offensive identity fitting him. He’s had under 10 carries in 2 of the last 3.
It’s sad, but we’re in a position to part with Frank to go get someone shifty and fast. I would hate to see his brilliant potential wasted in this offense.
Alex had a great game and he’s getting the ball to the WR’s consistently, which we haven’t seen around here in a long time. If we’re making the decision to roll with his ‘one-dimentional’ style, it’s time to fit the final piece to this new offense.
by t p on Dec 7, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+100
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 7, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For example, yesterday, it sure seemed that the 49ers took control of the game early and with a consistent, balanced attack, would win rather convincingly.
No, the Niners had success early with an aggressive passing attack. Both touchdown drives were ALL passes. Obviously, passing all the time is NOT the answer — no one is suggesting it is. But all successful pro offenses, even “balanced” ones, pass early and often.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Read the sentence
I didn’t suggest that the 49ers had a balanced attack – I said that they took control of the game early and if they had played a balanced game from then on, they would have won convincingly.
"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."
by Mcamp49 on Dec 7, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad...
…I completely misread. But I don’t think a “balanced” attack would have guaranteed a win, convincing or otherwise..
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No worries...
I really thought though that there was some opportunity there for the 49ers to run the football yesterday and to control the game. Woulda, coulda, shoulda…
I do think though that this team needs to use these last 4 games to figure out what in the hell they are as an offensive unit. To me, they are built to be a 60/40 pass team. I like the Davis/Walker combo on the field at the same time, especially if either can be used to lead block for Gore. Davis is such a mismatch nightmare for teams as both a receiver and a blocker (assuming he can catch the damn ball)…
"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."
by Mcamp49 on Dec 7, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The rebuttal to that would be...
Any drive that chews time off the clock has to be a drive that gets first downs. The O-Line has finally figured out how to hang on long enough for Alex Smith to be able to dump the ball. They’ve been next to useless in opening holes for the running game.
I’d like to have a running game that can effective chew up the clock as well, but right now – we don’t have it. As a result, our offense looks like Texas Techs. The scary thing is that without that idiot reverse on the punt return (fumble) or the Frank Gore fumble or if Vernon Davis or Michael Crabree or Delanie Walker had caught any one of three dropped TD passes, we would have won. The Raye-Gun would have looked like the second coming of the West Coast Offense, and everyone would be talking about how successful the spread can be at the pro level.
This game wasn’t lost because the 49ers threw the ball 45 times. This game was lost because the 49ers managed to find every possible way, and invent some new ones, of screwing the pooch.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Gary Plummer put it best
After the game yesterday he said (without being able to quote him verbatim), “They need more people who are hungry enough. They just don’t have enough of them.”
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember Jerry Rice said it took some adapting to catch Steve Young's ball
because the spiral was opposite being as he was left handed? The most sure-handed receiver in the history of the game needed some time to adjust to a different pass. Going from limp armed Shaun Hill in camp to Smith has to be just as difficult for VD who nobody would ever dream of putting in the same category of hands as JR. I think we’ll see some of these dropped passes rectified with a full off-season with our new solidified starter.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you take away 50% of those drops
How great does that offense look now?
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
Crazy how many drops there are.
And I bet your right. Even though Alex has softened up on his touch a bit I bet he’s still throwing it lots harder than Hill did. If you’re used to a softball coming your way and now you’ve got a fast ball it takes some adjusting.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first time going into the off season
Where I don’t foresee a year where people are hoping for a playoff spot/winning record. I really believe 10 wins/division shootout with Arizona/2nd round of the playoffs… Maybe further
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
play calling
Thjs game was winable. Play calling took points off the board. One can only wonder why, with 2nd down on the one yard line, the OC chooses to pass three times in a row to come away with nada. Why not run Gore for the one yard TD? Many other times during the game as well, but the knife through the heart comes with three minutes left, down by three. Third down and three for the first. Forget the first down, lets call a 25 yrd. post pattern into double coverage. What the hell is this? Did Jimmy Ray forget elementary play calling 101? YOU GET THE FIRST DOWN, KEEP THE CHAINS MOVING, CONTROL THE BALL. YOU GIVE YOUR TEAM A CHANCE TO WIN. What an Idiot! Instead, he turns the ball over, hawks march down, field goal, game over. This Idiot has done this many times this season. Someone needs to step up and yank this moron away from calling plays. Seriously, if Coach S wants to stay in SF, make a great legacy, he needs to take control of the OC. Its not the refs, or the players. Yes, Vernon dropped the game winner. This happens. But you cant take points off the board by blowing the play calling.
by coachm on Dec 7, 2009 8:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
to an extent,
I agree. I thought they should go for yardage on 1st and 2nd down on the last drive. Once it was 3rd and 3 we should have run the ball, taken time off the clock, run the playclock down, then punted with nearly no time left for SEA to move the ball.
You play to win until you are in jeopardy of giving the other team the ball back with enough time to do the same (play to win). Then you change up to ball/time control.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fully agree.
we lost the time of possession battle again (only 1 first down came from the ground game). in a game in which our QB had his career game…
playcalling to his strengths is forgetting a fundamental element of the game.
by t p on Dec 7, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you do realize
that how many first downs come from the run game has very little at best to do with the TOP “battle”, right?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that...
an incomplete pass stops the clock. and that running the ball eats the clock. Many designed passes in short yardage situations are directional route/passes toward the sideline.
I also realize that we only ran the ball 9 times all game….that’s not balance, and in a close game like this- eating the clock is a weapon.
by t p on Dec 7, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't believe that
“eating the clock is a weapon” except in very specific instances. Not just “close game(s) like this”. You should (almost) never sacrifice offensive efficiency just to burn some more clock.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in the case...
of the 2nd and goal from the 1? It’s not offensively efficient to call pass plays when you have 11 yards of field for the other team to defend. Had we run twice, we’d have chewed another minute off the clock and have been just as statistically capable of converting. Granted, this scenario played out in the first half, but had it been in the second half- it would have put less time on the clock for that final drive.
by t p on Dec 7, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not offensively efficient to call pass plays when you have 11 yards of field for the other team to defend. Had we run twice, we’d have chewed another minute off the clock and have been just as statistically capable of converting.
This is A) Not necessarily true, and B) has nothing to do with offensive efficiency. Oh, and I like how you resign the team to not making it twice, then assume they’ll make it on the 3rd try. Not to mention that passing from the goal line worked last week, and should have this week, but for a blown PI call / dropped pass.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure about Raye..
Seems to me as of late in his career, the offense is always in a bit of a roller coaster. One area improves while another regresses. The offense seems to get worse his second year. The irony is that Singletary didn’t want his OC to use this job for an HC job in the future, but Raye only seems to last for 2 years before getting fired.
The 49ers should learn form past mistakes, and always have a QB in the wings. Smith may get the nod for next season, but he still has issues that need work. Sooner or later you’re gonna have to play from under center, and his footwork there needs improvement. The 49ers really have to figure out what kind of offensive system they want to use, and stick with it. Even if it means they lose games. This offense is Schizo. You don’t know what you’re gonna get.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 8:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
our two-TE set is good
but the team definitely needs an identity on offense. I think Alex Smith has earned the 2010 job, but at the same time, us fans deserves a team with offensive identity. A new LG and RT will help the team greatly, and I’m sure we’ll see a lot more under centre formations in 2010.
by Andrew Davidson on Dec 7, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Alex Smith get around?
What makes him so loose?
by foosball4949 on Dec 7, 2009 8:35 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
So what, prey tell...
…is a “real” offense? And if we haven’t been running a “real” offense, what exactly have we been doing these past few weeks? I’m sure bignerd will mouth some platitude about “balance,” but it’s time to talk turkey. What do those who don’t favor the passing attack suggest we do instead?
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 8:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
relative balance.
not total balance. you have to go into a game prepared to take what they give you, yes…but you can’t abandon half of your game. While few and far between, we have had successful runs this year. We should have mixed a few more into the SEA game, especially when ball control became imperative.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you...
…that we should have been running more to take time off the clock on that last drive.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The running game was the only turnover on offense
So for the Seattle game, wrong!
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we're going to see the raye-gun as our primary offense next season
Alex performed well under center under Norv Turner after getting acclimated to it in his second year and I’d expect us to try to return to that as our primary offense in the offseason.
That being said, I think that there will be a lot of time spent on expanding the gun aspect of the O so that it can be used when needed. A few weeks ago we all heard a lot of talk about how you couldn’t really install a new offense in mid-season (which, by-the-way, they kind of did anyways which I find impressive), this way we wouldn’t have to.
I almost see us implementing two offensive strategies that we can flip back and forth between. I don’t think that would be quite as good as having a set offense but we’re not a good enough team to be entrenched in our ways yet and need to retain some flexibility.
by foosball4949 on Dec 7, 2009 8:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
a shotgun-heavy offense needn't be a strictly pass-oriented offense
If Jimmy Raye is back next year as the play-caller, I hope he takes the advice of Mike Johnson, who spent much of last year learning about running the ball out of shotgun sets. If the Niners Frank Gore can figure out how to do that, this offense could really be something.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
by grantmp on Dec 7, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We need an under the center spread type offense so the run is always a threat.
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm excited about Mike Johnson
He rally seems like a promising young OC candidate
by foosball4949 on Dec 7, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, it makes me laugh just to think how many people feel they have the football “know how” to critisize a hall of fame defensive player turned coach, and 20 plus year experienced OC. Look, Funny thing is, people complained about how Jimmy Ray was so 1 dimentional, and that he needed to turn it up a notch. So poor old Jimmy Ray caves in and decides to open things up a little. As soon as the team chokes another possible victory, people want his head. Point is, this is exactly what u get when u have a team playing a certain style, and then expect them to do some stuff that their just not used to. Look, been a niners fan for years, and I mean years, a shit load of em, and ive seen all the worst that this team can do, 05’ anyone, last night wasnt a matter of what play was called or what play wasnt, u just saw men for the first time trying to respond to situations that their just not acostumed to, by thatn I mean the actuall possibility of winning many games, trust we, we lost by six or less at least 5 times and this was despite having our shit together like some of the teams we played. We are talented, this we know, but I think this season shows us thus far that this is a team that is learning how to win the games that matter, cuz most of the guys on the roster, for the last few years wernt even in near as many games where it came down to the last few min in the past years. These guys will learn, and we will get better, maybe Smith is our guy at QB, if he aint and some 1 else shows he has what it takes to lead this team, I wont feel bad for Smith one bit.
by erob52 on Dec 7, 2009 8:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He didn't open things up "a little" though
It’s one thing to pass the ball more, it’s another thing to only get the ball into Frank Gore’s hands 9 times.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Dec 7, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about Special Teams??
I really think all the way around that’s what lost this game. That fumble killed our momentum early we should have smashed the Seahawks. No spark, no good returns, giving up a huge return in the closing minutes killed this team yesterday.
by azNinerfan on Dec 7, 2009 8:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i hope it has a lot to do with why the reverse was ever,ever called in the first place.
by srill waiting on Dec 7, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really liked Morgan on kickoffs
He was not spectacular, but I did not feel the sense of dread and fatalism watching him return. (When I saw non-Rossums returning earlier this year, they just looked sluggish and awful.)
Punt returning is a huge weakness. I really think we should draft a return specialist if FA of proven guys doesn’t work out.
by brundylop on Dec 7, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I am hoping that we consider Javier Arenas as a possible mid round draft pick. He’s a cb from Alabama had the game saving interception of Tebow in the endzone. After seeing smith get burned on the game winning pass from Hassleback, he looks like an upgrade. Lastly, Smith before Saturday’s game was about 50 yards or so from breaking the all time KR/PR yards breaking Wes Welkers record.
by D-9er on Dec 7, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Javier
in addition to being an All American DB, is ~30 punt return yards away from setting the NCAA record.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's your Return Man
C.J. Spiller, RB from Clemsen would provide immediate help. Field position played a crucial role yesterday. Niners could dominate that game with Andy Lee’s leg and C J’s pro bowl potential as a return man. Spiller’s exceptional hands & scoots allow the Niners the situational options to:
Rotate C J with Delanie Walker, pairing with either Gore or Coffee for the Niner version of "Thunder & Lightning." OR
Replace Gore/Coffee arming Alex with a C J "silver bullet" (red & gold magnum) for his Raye Gun. Depending how the draft goes, the Niner’s second 1st round pick should still yield a top tier OL, DB, or a pass rushing DE/OLB. If the 49ers are committed to this offense they either need to get C J or need to get "a CJ."
by Flyin' Taco on Dec 7, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been thinking
and yes, it hurt…
What if we go for a guy who doesn’t have the hoopla maybe, but is football smart and can learn the playbook quickly, doesn’t make mistakes, etc? Still in the same mold as CJ/Best/shifty lightning in a bottle type of guy?
Anyone got a poor-man’s-Chris-Johnson in mind?
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Spiller seems more like Reggie Bush to me
Great for catching swing passes and screens, not so great for running the ball. I’d be up for him in the 2nd, but not in the 1st.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
by grantmp on Dec 7, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone on here said
that he proved his toughness this year and that he COULD be an every down back…not sure who (please chime in now those who have followed the kid!)
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Full time back
The reggie bush comparison is an insult
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
said it before, be saying it 'till April.
WTB 1 Arenas plz.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
First and foremost
Let us not look ahead to the offseason. Sure, we trail the Cards by three games, but there are four games left in the season and stranger things have happened (see the Denver Broncos last year). Let’s focus on the remaining games.
That said, I am very impressed with the ability of Sing and Raye to adapt the offense to the personnel we have. This is the best reason that both of them should continue on next year.
I heavily criticised the benching of Shaun Hill for Smith, but at this point, Smith deserves a chance to stick around with the same OC for another year. We really need to work on our line, naturally, but we can potentially have a solid core on offense, with Alex Smith, Frank Gore, and Coffee in the backfield, and the emerging Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, and, of course, VD receiving. This team has a chance to be something special in the future.
Most importantly, this team has never rolled over and played dead, which is at least a positive development.
Go Niners!
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by Rishi on Dec 7, 2009 9:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Alex Smith has earned the starting job in 2010
By keeping Raye and Smith together next year we have our best chance of making the playoffs in 2010.
Drafting a qb would only singe another rebuilding year which i feel we are past. I really feel like we are 2 or 3 players away for a superbowl. If we use our 2 first rounders on needs (OL in particular) i feel we may be very close to have all our pieces.
Going out and getting a free agent qb would be crazy (Kyle Orton or Jason Campbell) i mean how much better are they than smith. Crabtree will be another year old and more experienced. Plus Smith will be playing in the final year of his contract so he will have a lot to play for.
I just hope Jed stands up for his guys and brings some consistency to a franchise that is in dire need of stability.
by NickWood on Dec 7, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'd be willing to bet
Alex resigns at a VERY fair price. He really doesn’t seem like a money first guy and he seems to really want to be a Niner.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
here we go
First of all, to not mix in more runs was bad. I never wanted to see 90% passing…did anyone? You have to give guys a chance to earn short yardage. Especially when you have 1st or 2nd down and goal from short yardage.
You also have to run the ball on 3rd and 3 on the last drive. If you get the first down you can call timeout and try a few long passes. If you don’t, you let the playclock run out (or force Seattle to call time out) and punt with nearly no time left on the clock, or SEA not having that timeout.
Vernon has to make those catches. There really is no excuse, chemistry, whatever. They were bad drops. Right in his hands, no difficulty (for a player of his caliber) involved. Alex Smith DID drive us down to win the game. Anyone who thinks less of A.S. as a result of this game…
We are not a “reverse punt return” team. We have inexperienced players and coaches. We are fighting for our playoff lives (meaning a loss is crushing). We have a hard enough time catching punts cleanly, in the appropriate part of the field. It’s like letting your 2 year old child drive the car when they can’t even crap in the toilet.
Our secondary is bad. It is. It shows flashes of promise…but that’s it. Period. I wont blame the game on them because it never should have been in their hands to begin with…but man…
Frank Gore needs to practice seeing cutback lanes. Unless that’s just something you’re either born with or not…in which case we need another back to split equal time with Gore. As it is I think we need someone to play at least a series each half. Someone shifty and ultra-quick who can potentially break one off any time. In short, we need our own Chris Johnson.
Alex Smith deserves to finish the season and barring a complete collapse, start next year. We should not draft a QB unless it’s to fill Shaun Hill’s spot…which I think might be a bad idea considering we’d have backups with 0 and 1 year of bench time backing up Smith. All Alex has done is get better every game. He still makes some throws that make you scratch your head, but it’s lessening, showing hope for the future that there will be almost none of those going forward.
The Offensive line has played better…which seems to reinforce the “cohesion” or “gel” theories. This is encouraging for next year as we hopefully acquire either Free Agent lineman or some in the draft…and give them a full camp and pre-season to play together. The funny thing though is that they pass block seemingly better than they run-block lately…wait…maybe that’s not too ironic considering how much we pass in games…I’m sure they practice that many passing plays too meaning they aren’t getting much practice with run blocking, eh?
The penalties were horrible. That said, we were still in a position to win the game or go to overtime and so while they may have set a tone…we overcame them and blew the game on our own. Still, it’s interesting to imagine what would have happened if we got that first TD to Delanie Walker?!?
I could go on but I wont…
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Alex will be
another year more experienced and another year healthier from what by all rights could have been a career ending set of injuries. I’m very optimistic about our future.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maiocco:
Niners had Seven 3-and-outs yesterday:
4 pass, pass, pass
2 run, pass, pass
1 run, run, run
so in 21 three-and-out plays, there were 5 runs and 16 passes.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
that's the thing...
every now and then run on 1st or second down! If we get a yard or two or three at least…that’s still a shorter 3rd down play! And we only ran on 1 third down play in the three and outs. Do ya think the defense knew we were gonna throw on 3rd down all day?!?!
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well
considering most teams throw close to 100% of the time on 3rd and 3+…
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the easiest way to get to 3rd and long is incomplete passes on 1st and 2nd down…
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or get stuffed twice
but that’s immaterial, because I was responding to this:
Do ya think the defense knew we were gonna throw on 3rd down all day?!?!
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you're saying
but we also need to show that we’re not completely giving up on the run.
Anyone remember when Hawaii had Colt Brennan and played Georgia in that bowl game a few years back? Hawaii had like 100 billion yards passing and 4798 touchdowns that year…seriously Brennan threw for like 7,000 yards or something that year…but when they played a real team who knew the pass was coming and couldn’t run…it was OVER.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing what's coming...
…is vastly overrated, as Schoop’s point about passing on 3rd and 3 shows. By your logic, Hawaii shouldn’t have even been in that bowl game in the first place because all of their opponents knew the pass was coming. Hawaii lost because they met a superior team, not because they failed to run the ball.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically right
Yeah, no arguing there. Georgia was quite the superior team. SEC vs. WAC? You can’t really compare the two in superiority. It doesn’t matter whether you run or pass, if you don’t make a reasonable effort to keep possession (1-13?? That’s just pathetic) you’re just playing a mindless game and statistics don’t mean jack! Such was the case with Hawaii (I know, I’m sadly a fan) and the Niners are now almost along the same lines on the professional level.
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
I’m not making my point at all.
I agree, and even said, Georgia was a better team by far. The point is that you can get away with it sometimes…especially against inferior opponents, but you generally don’t see nationally competitive teams at either level (pro or college) who are one dimensional.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
Nope you’re right. And that’s what did us in yesterday. If Raye/Sing had a priority list this week, developing a script of balanced plays specifically for third down situations should be at the very top of it. I think we had all our time outs and only three yards to go for a 1st, what was the pressing need to throw the ball deep?
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget...
…that our two scoring drives were all passes.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, early
at what point do you think Seattle had a pretty good idea of what we were going to do all game?
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are college like numbers...
Because the 49ers are now running a college style modified spread offense. When you don’t complete passes on 1st or 2nd downs it creates a huge hole for 3rd downs. On the other side of the coin, San Francisco was terrible at completing third downs with the Raye-Dive offense as well.
There needs to be balance, but we’ve seen more life out of this spread offense than the 49ers have shown doing much of anything since Mooch left.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really want to see
someone try a full on shotgun spread option in the NFL. I think it could work, if you had the right players for the system. (and a good backup QB or 2)
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you watch the Steelers-Ravens game last week?
That is essentially what the Steelers did with Dennis Dixon on his most successful drives.
Then they stopped letting him spread out the defense because their backup QB was, well, Tyler Palko.
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by Rishi on Dec 8, 2009 7:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
balance
pseudo-balance at least…We have to mix in a few more runs is all i’m saying. A few…that’s it.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
But for that, I think a fixed O-Line is in order.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone answer this?
What defensive alignment were the Hawks in most of the day? Did they play mostly Nickel and Dime? Or were they in more base?
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Give Alex Smith his credit
“While [Alex Smith] was not able to drive down the field for the win at the end….”
I disagree. Alex did everything right during the second to last drive of the game – he did drive the team down the field to about Seattle’s 15 or 20 yard line. He made a perfect pass over the middle to VD that would’ve given the niners the winning TD. Unfortunately, the ball went right through The Disease’s hands and bounced off his helmet.
Not blaming VD, though. He’s human and makes mistakes. Just pointing out that Alex probably has what it takes to win and should be the starter for the foreseeable future.
by zen_fanatic on Dec 7, 2009 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
drive
I was talking specifically about the very last drive. I’m completely fine with his second to last drive.
by Fooch on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was perhaps...
The one bad pass of the game. Give these guys a training camp and they’ll get these issues ironed out.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2010 schedule
partially known:
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/12/looking-ahead-to-49ers-2010-schedule.html
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, already time to look at next year’s schedule.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sucks yah...
But I’d love to have the Cowboys back and Candlestick to smash em for old times sake. I can legitimately see 10-6 or 11-5 against this WITHOUT Saintsesque lucky bounces going our way
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, Fooch, you're forever the optimist
the time is fast approaching for us to start peaking ahead to the offseason and beyond
I saw what you did there. You said “peaking ahead”—as in ‘rising to the fore’—instead of “peeking ahead”—as in ‘looking ahead’.
I wish I shared this optimism…
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
by grantmp on Dec 7, 2009 10:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
well played indeed my friend
Corrected.
by Fooch on Dec 7, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So apparently you want us to vote for Davis...
Couldn’t just do the poll with their real names?
Obviously the poll is designed to make you vote for nate “the great”.
I’d like to vote for Alex, but I don’t see him as a “Looser”…or a Loser, as its normally spelled. So I abstain. Unless you’re trying to say that Alex is getting looser (more loose), as you spelled it, in which case I agree, he has loosened up.
Don’t mean to play grammar police, I just don’t like the way negative terms are attached to everyone not named Nate Davis.
Nate needs to sit one more year. If they play it right and give him time to develop he could be the guy in a couple years.
But right now Alex is showing that wow, If you actually put some talent around him, he can play. He has weapons now. Yes, he has had a different O-coordinator every year, and that has contributed, but he also has never had so many options to play with on offense. He has earned the job next year and possibly going forward.
Too many needs elsewhere to Draft a QB this year (and I have my doubts about the higher-ranked QBs in this draft anyway). Alex plays, maybe earns the job long-term, otherwise we go to Davis in 2011.
by ManBearPig21 on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I liked the poll names
Calling Smith “looser” is ironic/sarcastic—I thought this was obvious given the fact that Fooch is all but declaring it inevitable that Smith will be the starter in 2010.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
by grantmp on Dec 7, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why inevitable?
If Alex Smith keeps putting up these numbers through the rest of the season, I would hope people would stop feeling resigned to the fact that Alex Smith is going to QB, and were instead excited about the possibility. It looks like he has finally figured it – his throws have been sharp and consistent, he’s moving around the pocket, he’s not staring down receivers.
I know the season isn’t over yet, but I think we’ve found ourselves a QB for at least the next few years barring any major injury.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I wasn't commenting on the decision
I was describing the account Fooch gave of the 49ers QB situation going forward. Although I haven’t seen the Seahawks game yet, I have been impressed with Smith so far this season. He has delivered on some of the promise that he showed as a collegiate player, and even the detractors will agree that he resembles the ’06 version of himself more than he resembles the ’05 or ’07 versions of himself. His play this season looks rather like another data point in an upwardly trending career.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
by grantmp on Dec 7, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Apologies
The three QBs names are based on comments folks have made here throughout the season. People repeatedly Alex Smith is a loser who can’t win games (looser is for exaggeration). Swan Hill is based on someone actually calling him Swan Hill in the comments a while back. Nate the Great is for all the folks declaring Nate Davis the next great 49ers QB.
by Fooch on Dec 7, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured Looser
Came from Djames or whatever his name was that was trolling the thread the other night. Seems to fit perfect.
I also love how the internet has forever ruined the spelling of loser. A great deal of folks spell it with two “o’s” and absolutely no idea they are incorrect now. All hail lord internets
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the QB nicknames! It reflects the community here (especially Swan Hill).
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by Rishi on Dec 8, 2009 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Have A Thought Here.
Don’t attack me for suggesting this, but it is just an option. We can get a 1st and 3rd round pick for Gore, he is still only 26 right? Teams would be willing to give that up for an elite RB with 5-6 good years remaining. Am i wrong?
Then we could sign Jerious Norwood and have him split time with Coffee. I don’t want to see Gore wasted in this type of offense either, it’s not fair to him or to this offense. Norwood is good on the receiving end and can be utilized as a change of pace back. With Crabtree, Morgan, Davis, Coffee and Norwood the 49ers would have the makings of an explosive offense especially with Alex Smith coming into his own.
Plus we would have three 1st round picks to fill the major holes that we have in the secondary and/or offensive line. Just a theory
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Dec 7, 2009 11:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
interesting
I don’t think it’ll happen, but it’s certainly thinking outside the box.
by Fooch on Dec 7, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like the theory
Don’t like Norwood
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither
Getting a 1st round pick for Gore seems unreasonable. Most teams seem to be hip to the fact that running backs are easy to replace. I can see a 2nd round pick, but not a first.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2nd round pick
Might get us Gerhart to replace him… Similar style but Gerhart is alot more likely to pick up a hard 4 or 5 on a consistant basis though he would likely never break one for more than 20 or 30. I’d take that though. Unless I’m getting Barry or C.J. who can break one at all times i’d take the consistant 4-14 yard gains over a series of runs that looks like 2, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 4, 3, 2, 25 repeat.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be more specific, for our current offense
I think a consistent 4-14 yard guy is more applicable that is. Under a different system I’d rather have a back with a threat to pop big gainers. If we’re going to a passing philosophy I’d rather have a guy that can help every time in bringing us to 3rd and short when we’re at 2nd and 7 or 8
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A consisent 4 yard runner
is more valuable in the long run than a guy who gets 0, 1, -1, 0, 45, 0, 1, 2, etc.
The first guy is someone your team can rely on any short down situation. The other guy is someone that looks great on highlights but you can’t trust him to not have you go 3 and out.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to agree with that but I’m not so sure. I believe it depends on the team’s style.
I thought Edge killed the Colts his last two years because he could get 4 yards but couldn’t get more than 15 on a carry. The defense will continue to play that shell coverage unless they are being gashed in the run game. A nice 40 yard run seems to scare the hell out of defense much more than 5 consecutive 4 yard carries.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with both of you actually
I think in most schemes the consistent 4 yard gainer is more valuable than the big play threat… But the titans now and 90’s Lions are/were a lot better off having a guy thats a threat every time they touch the ball. For our team I think a guy that turns 1st and 10 into 2nd and 5 or 6 most times is better.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the 4 yard guy
is usually the guy you have to bring extra guys into the box for. If you don’t, he’ll run over your LB one on one. You have to jam him with bodies to stop him. The big play guy bounces out from all those bodies and then there’s nobody left to tackle him. You almost play big-play-run-prevent against them at times…which is almost like zone pass coverage.
I’ll take a guy who defenses have to stuff the box to stop. If they don’t, we march down the field eating 8 minutes off the clock and punch it in for 6.
But yeah…there are advantages to both. That’s why it’d be nice to have both!
by Tre9er on Dec 8, 2009 6:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a bad theory
but I want to see what changes we make to the O-line next year and see if they improve our running game.
I also don’t like Norwood.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could try this
Trade him to the Jets for Kerry Rhodes, a strong safety – his game was off earlier this year but he seems to have improved due to competition. The Jets are worried that Thomas Jones is at the end of his career and Shonn Greene doesn’t seem ready yet. Or you could get cornerback Lito Sheppard plus a second-round pick, and use one of the first-round picks to draft an RB.
by Rabbit T on Dec 8, 2009 5:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
trust me
I love the idea of a veteran DB who can play. And Gore has high value. But I also worry about our pass protection and mental errors occurring if we have a rookie in there. We’d have to pick up a veteran RB to split time with whatever explosive youngster we drafted…most likely
by Tre9er on Dec 8, 2009 6:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Offensive identity
The team needs to figure out a complete offensive identity
Not sure that the Niners need to define a specific offensive identity.
It seems like the best offenses just make the most of what they have and don’t focus on building an “indentity”. Even the West Coast offense was accidental. As the OC at Cincinatti, BW had a QB with a weak arm and poor accuracy on throws of 15+ yards, a defunct running game, and a porous o-line; but Virgil Carter’s arm was super accurate within 15 yds and he benefited from a strong WR corps. Walsh’s solution was to have the QB make quick, short throws before his protection collapsed. It was a pragmatic response to the cards he was given.
What if today’s Niners took more of a pragmatic view? Here’s what we know:
Alex Smith is a solid QB
We have promising young WR’s – Crabtree, Morgan
VD is realizing his potential both as a receiver and blocker
Frank Gore is still a strong back with at least a couple of more years of production left in him
So we clearly have the assets to build a potent offense, maybe even one that runs the WC offense. However, the missing piece is a consistent o-line. No way we can build a balanced offense (with a legit running game) with the current lot. I can’t tell if it’s a personnel issue or the learning curve for the o-line coach. Probably both.
The other major reason we’re losing games is that the Niner coaching staff, in its first year under Singletary, still has a lot to learn. Singletary (and Raye) need to settle Alex a little – how many times has he been asked to throw long on third & short and failed? We need more high-probability short passes on 1st and 2nd down to boost our 3rd down conversion rate. Keep the drive going, build momentum.
Sing is still taking uncessary risks: a 30-yd pass on 4th and 3 vs. Jacksonville last week? We weren’t so lucky yesterday on 4th and 1 at the Seahawks’ 1. And why on earth call for end-around on a punt return early in the 1st qtr? Plays such as these are reckless and end up costing us games. We can easily win 2-4 more games a year by eliminating these mistakes.
Let’s try to stay pragmatic, not reckless, not conservative on offense and we’ll get there. We really have the tools to make 2010 a good year.
by zen_fanatic on Dec 7, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
If you are saying we need a new QB and OC
you obviously dont know anything about football in depth. you think its that easy to just fix the problem. you’re not looking at the BIG picture. Protection, Audibles, Vision, i can go on for days. The problem is that some fans ar ejust ignorant and its sad that some of those fans are 49er bans. Stop bashing A smith and Raye. you obviosuly dont know how to run an offense. i bet if i played you in madden i would kill you because you would probably not know what plays to call and what mismatches you have. Stop hatting on our 49ers and start rooting for the raiders!
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"
by Bo$$Ixta! on Dec 7, 2009 11:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
what?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
who are you talking to?
If it’s me I’m not sure what you’re talking about. If it’s somebody else’s comment, you need to reply directly to them using the reply button.
by Fooch on Dec 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to fooch
was responding to your discussion about about the offense’s need to develop an identity
by zen_fanatic on Dec 7, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bo$$ixta!
I know you were, but I’m wondering about Bo$$ixta! because nowhere did I say we need a QB and OC. I say the exact opposite I think.
by Fooch on Dec 7, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Press Conference Thread Fooch?
Because if the post-game presser was any indication, this one should be a Singletarian doozy.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol i was not talking about you fooch....
i just said that to those who say we need a new QB and OC…i think i’ve read enough threads to know that someone has said this in the past and will say it again. so i wrote to those who say we need a new QB and OC. not to you fooch… and i did not want to reply to everyone so i just wrote it and made it a general thing. im at work and dont want to read every post, so like i said, im sure if i read every post someone will say “well get rid of alex or get rid of Raye”…
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"
by Bo$$Ixta! on Dec 7, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll get ripped for this...
…but what about seeing if we can get Reggie Bush cheaply from the Saints? After all, he’s injury prone and basically an afterthought in the Saints offense. Still, I could see him running and catching passes out of the shotgun.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention...
…we need a return guy.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree....
we need someone that can come out of the back field and catch and dip and TD. but does this mean that we wasted a pick in glen coffee because we thought we would be a smash mouth running team? i see him as a north and south runner not east and west like Bush
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"
by Bo$$Ixta! on Dec 7, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take Reggie Bush . . . at least he is a punt returner. Not sure he’d be any good at RB.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not an every down back...
…for sure. But we agree about him as a returner. And lined up at receiver or as RB on occasional sweeps, he might pair well with Gore and/or Coffee. Plus he used to play with Smith in high school, so they might have some chemistry. I suspect, however, he’ll go wherever the $$$ take him, so this is all kind of moot.
by Bigmouth on Dec 7, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a great receiver
and honestly I think his running style doesn’t work with the Saints more than he can’t rush. His top end speed is great but not unbelievable but his acceleration is what made him special in college and is still ridiculous. On the Saints unlike Pierre Thomas he gets moving too quickly for his own good. Thomas is more patient and lets his blocks develop as he’s a little slower anyways. Bush hits the hole before its there or before his cutback lane develops. If we ran him as a draw running back out of the shotgun, (where gaping holes are available to guys that can turn on the jets quickly), I think you’d see some of his collegiate magic again.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i do love that idea
if it works. can i get that on paper?
by Tre9er on Dec 8, 2009 6:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rumour has it that the Saints are going to cut him at the end of the year…
7
by Rishi on Dec 8, 2009 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, this is outdated already..

Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
The old Techmo Bowl?
That’s where Raye gets his plays?? BRUTAL!
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaha
I wish I saw that earlier in the season.
7
by Rishi on Dec 8, 2009 7:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's Also Look At It This Way
We have two players in Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis who are more then capable of gaining 1,000+ yards receiving in 2010. I could also see Alex Smith throwing for nearly 4,000 yards and 30 TD in this offense, that is not beyond the realm of possibility given how he has played recently and the type of offense we are running. You throw between 35-40 times a game on average and your assured to pass for a lot of yards even by default. This offense has the makings of being among the leagues elite
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Dec 7, 2009 11:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
They fired Martz...
Ironic, isn’t it?
I read around the net for differing opinions (49er fans basically say the same things over and over again, not just her, but like everywhere), but this thread I find kinda interesting:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=509985
I also find it ironic that Singletary thought that this offense can lose games for them.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
4000 yds?
I agree that this offense could have a better, maybe even a break out, year in 2010. But let’s not get carried away – 4000 yds is still a ways away. We have to find better pass protection for the QB. Staley and Heitmann are fine, but other positions need to be addressed. And we just have Smith throwing the ball 40+ times a game or he’ll risk injuy
by zen_fanatic on Dec 7, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
is it?
after 6.5 games, he’s at 1577. That pro-rates to 3880 yards over a full season, and that’s counting the Indy game where they decided not to pass for some reason, and the Chicago game where he had a Hillian performance.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you might be right
It’s entirely possible that AS throws 250 yds a game. But can he survive an entire season behind this o-line without any injury? Teams will adjust to us if we go with a shotgun-only approach
by zen_fanatic on Dec 7, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they haven't adjusted yet
Smiths sack rate out of the gun is WAY lower than from under center. Plus, he was one of the most sacked QBs in ’06 and played every snap.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about 2007?
Perhaps you’re forgetting the season-ending shoulder injury Alex Smith suffered against Seattle in Oct 07. In that game, someone on the OL forgot to guard 308-lb DL Rocky Bernard, who pummeled Smith.
Look, it’s possible that he avoids injury, throws for 4000 yds and 30 TDs. My point is that if McLoughlan & Co can upgrade a few positions on the o-line, Smith will have a much better chance at reaching the above goals. If Mcloughlan produces another draft class w/o any OL’s, watch out for more Rocky Bernards.
by zen_fanatic on Dec 7, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
right
but those kinds of things don’t usually happen, even to QBs who get sacked a lot. I think it’s wrong to look at an obvious outlier and use that to try to judge future performance.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
I’m pretty sure that play started with Smith under center.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Mora Jr. would disagree
The Seahawks adjusted.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Primary Off-Season Goal On Offense
Would be to solidify the line. Lets just assume Staley, Heitman and even Rachal are locks to start, that leaves the need for a starting tackle and guard. If we can acquire those two players then Alex Smith should be protected fine. Also running out of the gun 60-70 percent of the time will limit hits on him. Wasn’t Smith the only QB in 49ers history to take every snap during the 2006 season? I think it will all work out but we must fix the line first and foremost. We are fine at the skill positions so unless someone drops dramatically (Golden Tate?) then we will be set with Crabtree, Morgan, Hill and Jones as our top 4 WR’s and Davis and Walker as the two TE’s
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Dec 7, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Golden Tate...
I’m praying Golden Tate gets lost in the glut of QB’s that are probably going to be drafted in the first and second round. I live in Austin, so perhaps that biases my opinion, but I think if the 49ers could steal Jordan Shipley in the 4th round – they should. He’s got a fantastic pair of hands, decent speed with rather good acceleration and is perhaps the best punt returner to ever play at Texas.
As far as I’m concerned, the top needs in the draft are
- Fast Safety (take pressure off the corners)
- RT or RG (solve the other one through free agency)
- Corners (for depth at the position)
If we can somehow get Tate and/or Shipley later in the draft, I think that’s icing on the cake.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with Shipley
Only because he appears to be that quick sure handed possession receiver that would be ideal in third down situations. But Golden Tate is more of a deep threat, and we have less need for that right now.
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
People were high on Crabtree...
Because of that catch at the very end of the UT-Tech game last year. Shipley is to Texas what Crabtree was to Tech – he’s bigger, a bit slower, perhaps a bit sturdier (as he’s been doing punt returns for the past two seasons) and every bit as sure with his hands. I’ve seen him consistently come up with balls that had no business being caught.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Punt returns
Wow, I think you hit it on the head. Shipley-punt returns. . .Last time I checked we need somebody for that job. :)
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey if nothing else we’d have someone with talent on the field and in the recording studio!
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just for kicks
Check out the Dallas Cowboys lineman band…
Free Reign. I {site decorum} you not… If you like metal its actually pretty damn good LOL
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.myspace.com/freereign
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 7, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont hate that
Shipley has come up big for McCoy every time. And his return abilities are great. I’d welcome a Welker type for slants and such too. Possession receiver.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Direction
As a whole it can be said that this team is finding itself offensively. But there is still a lot left to be said about the maturity of the players and ironically more so the coaching. (I hate this cliche, but) If there’s anything positive we can take from yesterday, it would be that hopefully Raye/Sing will now go through this offense with a fine toothed comb and figure out exactly how in any given situation they will manage to keep this offense on the field on third down.
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 11:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
again, someone answer this
Did the Seahawks play mostly base defense yesterday? That’s the only reason I can see the 49ers passing so much and abandoning the run in a close game.
Sing even said in his PC today that if they saw Nickel they wanted to “run on every play”. So Unless SEA played base defense all day…someone got some ’splainin to do…
Seriously, 50/50 is probably unattainable in this offense…but it was like what…90% passing plays yesterday? That’s ludicrous.
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 12:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dropped Balls
everyone stop complaining that we passed to much. if those balls are caught we would all be talking about a W here. so shush people!!!
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"
by Bo$$Ixta! on Dec 7, 2009 12:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I do agree with this
but the bottom line is that run or pass…the call has to be made at the right time. You don’t just go, “hey, let’s throw on EVERY down! Just for fun!” Who on this staff is trying to catch the other team with their pants down?!? You have to outsmart them!
But yes. Two TD’s were dropped (even if the first was mired in controversy…Walker could have still caught that). That’s on the players and I sure’s hell hope they’re catching balls after practice, in the shower, hey, that gives me a good idea!
You know how when a guy has fumblitis they make him carry the football around? They should throw the ball at guys who have the dropsies at inopportune times just to get them in the habit of catching it. Kinda like “think fast!” we used to do in our school days. I’m going to get that sent into the coaching staff right away (yeah right)
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I
I think it has less to do with passing too much and more to do with converting and executing at least on the receivers end. Opening up the offense has made us a lot more dangerous then before.
Since Smith has been playing the 49ers are averaging 242.6 Yards passing per game. Before that they were averaging 171.5 .
Crabtree is averaging 5 receptions and 62 yards in his first 7 NFL games all but one half Smith was starting
With Smith in Vernon Davis 36 passes for 506 yards and 7 TD. That’s an average of 78 yards receiving per game. Even Morgan has stepped it up with 12 catches in his last two games.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Dec 7, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Consistently good kickoff and punt returner would help the offense get good field position, which should moderate the Raye offense for the better.
Offensive line run game improvement.
Smith should continue to start until proven otherwise, but I think the offensive philosophy should include as much “I” and/or Pro set formation as it does the Gun. Multidimensional good. Predictable very, very bad.
Truth has a well-known liberal bias.
by dianemarie on Dec 7, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Despite the Infamous choking that is on display when we play
This 49ers team is the best since our last trip to the playoffs, despite what happens to finish the season. yesterday’s game and next weeks game will prove there is actually a reason for optimism!
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 1:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
bright side?
i wanted us to make the playoffs this year on so many levels.. one reason was the fact i didnt want to waste another one of gore’s “good years”.. although far from fragile, gore’s running style seems to lend himself to various small injuries.. at the very least, the past few games and the remaining few will leave gore fresh for next year. hes on pace for less than 250 carries this year which keeps him healthy and it gives us a big chance to see what alex smith and the passing offense can/cant do in the mean time.. we’ll grab an OL or two in draft and try a mix of the power running next year.. i really like the idea of a singleback set with smith under center. we also need playmakers on our young def. (eric berry anyone?) we seem so focused on fundamentals (tackling) we dont go for strips and other big plays like the better teams do.
by Kenito on Dec 7, 2009 1:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
alex smith
hey guys I’m new to the site, it’s a legit website. yesterday’s loss hurt so bad because we had so many chances to win the game. i’m not going to a lie im an Alex smith fan and i think yesterday he showed hes got the arm strength to make all the throws and he has improved his accuracy dramatically. he is our QB of the future and i believe he will lead us to the playoffs next year. people hate on this guy so much yet he’s been through so much, he is a fearless QB, in 05-07 there was always a nervous look in his eye, but i now see a confident QB, confident in his skills, confident in his team. when gore fumbled who thought they were gonna score? cause I did but guess who was there Alex smith who made the tackle and tried to rake the ball free. he is fearless and our team is real close to being real good. we are just too inconsistent right now but things will get better, a lot better.
by iStatiic on Dec 7, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You're right
I can’t see anyone else leading this team to the next level. The Alex Smith we’ve been waiting for has finally emerged, he just needs the right guidance. He could still get that from this coaching staff. When you think about it, nearly everyone that matters on this offense is still learning. The fact that they’ve dramatically revamped this offense in less than a season and are still very much in games to me is remarkable. The key to future success is proper game management. Making the best decision possible in any given situation. In this case it’s on third down. If you can’t convert, you’re giving the opponent too many chances to take control of the game. That’s what the Niners did (or didn’t do for that matter) yesterday. To go from 50% 3rd down efficiency two weeks ago to 8% yesterday means something critical to their game was overlooked or went by the wayside. The Niners need to keep learning what makes them successful and why it does. I trust that it will, not this season because there have adjustments made a little too late to make an impact, but ironically, if they keep this core of personnel in place for next year, I can see them easily making it to the next level.
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Come to think of it
They went 8-16 on 3rd downs against the Jags. Shouldn’t there be a way for Raye/Sing to look at those 8 plays that worked, see what they were and in what situation they ran them in? In the very least it would give them a decent chance of running a play that will end up successful.
by Mangoman1 on Dec 7, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
since this is NN, and not barrows blog...
shouldn’t we really call it the “Danny-Gun” offense? just saying, being that i was calling for it long before JR actually implemented it.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 3:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
about offensive balance...
it’s a total misconception that balance = 50% run/50% pass. rather, balance is having the ability to either run or pass if you want to on a given play. this might be surprising coming from me, but it’s more important to be able to run or pass if you want to on a given play than to have the stats say you’re 50/50 run vs. pass. with that said, i think that, as it relates to the 49ers, their “imbalance” problems are not about them running too much earlier in the season and passing too much now. rather, it’s that, earlier in the season, they couldn’t run when they wanted to run, and couldn’t pass when they wanted to pass, even though their run/pass frequency was much close to 50/50. the former was due to an inept OL having to block 8 and 9 men in the box, whereas the latter was due to having a starting QB who couldn’t complete a pass farther than 8 or 9 yards downfield.
now, i’d say that, as long as their in the shotgun, they’re more balanced than they were because it sure seems like they can run the ball when they want to and pass the ball when they want to. again, as i’ve said a million times, this “true” balance comes from being in the shotgun because (a) alex smith passes better out of the shotgun, (b) the OL pass-blocks better when smith is in shotgun, and © the OL run-blocks better when smith is in shotgun; with (b) and © being the result of fewer defenders in 100% run-stopping mode or 100% short-pass-defending mode.
so, my point is that, with as bad of an OL as they have right now, the shotgun gives the 49ers more “true” balance even though they may not have “statistical” balance. if they were to improve the OL this offseason, to the point where they can both run- and pass-block effectively when smith is under center, then using less shotgun would be fine by me. but as long as the OL is this bad, shotgun is the only way to have any semblance of “true” balance. again, it’s less important to have a 50/50 run-pass ratio than it does to have the ability to run or pass on a given play with equal expectations of success.
just as an anecdote, look at the differences between 7-5 NE and 12-0 IND. both teams are unbelievably shotgun- and pass-heavy. neither comes close to a “statistical” balance of run and pass. however, the difference between the 2 teams is that NE can’t run when they want to, whereas IND can run when they want to. yesterday, IND scored on a goal-to-go running play. NE failed on a 4th and goal running play. few, if any teams, respect NE’s running game, whereas plenty of teams respect IND’s running game. both teams have a “statistical” run/pass imbalance, but only NE also has a “true” imbalance because they can’t run the ball even if they want to. that’s the key.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 4:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
So it’s like if I got a black belt so that I could beat all of you guys up if I wanted to. I don’t have to beat you guys up. In fact, I probably wouldn’t. Most of you don’t deserve it or anything.
But you’d have to respect the fact that i COULD beat you up. You wouldn’t have the luxury of picking on me, because even though I’m not beating you up now, that’s no guarantee that I won’t beat you up if you start picking on me.
And also, even though I can theoretically never beat any of you guys up, I should still do it every now and there just so that you don’t start to think I never will.
I like the way you think, Danny.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
EVERY NOW AND THERE!
I FINALLY DID IT! I BROKE SPACE / TIME! SORRY GUYS!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha...
yes, it’s exactly like that. hooraaaaaaaaay analogies!
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
with the key phrase being
“I can…never beat any of you guys up”….
by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I felt a disturbance in the Force
on my drive home from work today.
OTOH it might have just been gas.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sticking with bignerd's idea.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think...
his idea and my comment are mutually exclusive or incompatible. you don’t have to chose one or the other. you can have an “offensive philosophy” that is still truly balanced in the way i define it.
since you bring it up though, where i do differ from bignerd is that it’s all fine and dandy to
Find a philosophy that uses Gore, VD, Crabtree, Morgan and Smith
but Friedrich Nitezsche isn’t the commissioner of the NFL, and Rene Decartes isn’t the OC of the 49ers. finding a “philosophy” that fits the talents of your skill-position players is irrelevant if your LOLine can’t block. the “run-first” philosophy early in the season didn’t work because their LOLine couldn’t run-block or pass-block when a rag-armed QB was taking the ball from under center. the “pass-first” philosophy now is working — clearly it’s working — because the OL can, in fact, run-block and pass-block when they’re not facing 8/9-man boxes or 6/7 pass rushers because of a strong-armed QB and the shotgun.
if anything, i’d say they’ve already “found a philosophy” that uses the players’ skills most effectively. you can’t really tell me that the blame for the SEA loss goes to the kind of offense they ran. blame may go to individual players (e.g., gore for fumbling, VD for dropping the game-winning TD, crabs for not being ready to catch the game-winning TD, etc.), but it’s not like the offense itself — or the offensive philosophy — is what lost the game. in fact, i’d say it’s their newfound offensive philosophy that put those players in exactly the correct situations to make game-winning plays. if that’s the case, what’s wrong with it? why search for a new one? why do they have to go “find” anything?
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But if Foucault was the commish...
Would you be in favor of establishing an offensive philosophy?
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe...
if Immanuel Kant, then definitely.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
I agree you play to the offenses strengths, but you gotta find other plays other than the ALL GO outta the shotgun too. It worked against two poor pass defenses in JAX and SEA. I can’t really blame the players much in the SEA loss because this offense is new to them. VD will have drops. Crabtree is a rookie. Smith still has issues with ball placement. I’ve said all along that this is a passing offense, and Hill was killing them because of his arm strength and his proclivity to dump the ball off. But you still need to establish some sort of balance somehow.
I can’t believe the 49ers O-line is this bad. I mean, I do believe they are that bad. I just can’t believe the FO whiffed on an key element there.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think...
moving staley to LT affected things more than anyone cares to admit. he should be a RT, and they kind of tried to fit a square peg into a round hole by moving him to LT. i say, go out and find a franchise LT (p.s. i know that’s not easy), and move staley back over to RT. i think that solves the pass-blocking part of the ineptitude puzzle.
making VD into their primary target in the passing game — for damn good reason of course — affected things more than anyone cares to admit too. he and staley were their best run-blockers, and VD was as good a pass-blocking TE as there is in the league. i’m not suggesting VD goes back to his martzian blocking-TE role, but moving staley back to RT also fixes this part of the run-blocking part of the ineptitude puzzle.
as far as the interior goes, rachal seems to me to be fine at run-blocking at the first level, but doesn’t know who the hell he’s supposed to block half the time, and he’s totally inept as a pass-blocker. he’s still really young, so this might improve with time. heitmann and baas i think are fine, but Cs and Gs are so easy (and cheap) to find, that the front office should try to improve because, obviously, they’re not in the elite class.
so, if i were the GM, my #1 priority would be acquiring a franchise pass-blocking LT. then, if i’m singletary, i move staley back to RT, and i run 80% of my running plays to the right side behind the top 5 run-blocking trio of staley, VD, and rachal. i think doing this will give them the ability to have “true” balance on offense, without having to use specific formations (i.e., the shotgun) or “gadgets” to hide OL weaknesses.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we don't find one in free agency
draft one, sit him behind Sims for a year and still move Staley over to RT.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't agree with people just to agree with them...
but I agree completely with this. Sims has played well enough that moving Staley back to RT makes sense. Rachal always has been a mauler and not much else…though we do hope that changes over time. Running to the strong side where VD is helps him to slip out uncovered on play action as well as the defense is keying on runs off right tackle.
Gore is showing us lately that he needs predetermined “holes”. He’s not a zone runner and our line blocks like a zone team at times (moving pile, no true holes). He would benefit from having strong Line blocking and for heaven’s sake someone light a fire under Norris’ butt. Let’s rotate Miller in with him and it’ll either motivate Norris, or show us he needs to go.
by Tre9er on Dec 8, 2009 6:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Law of Diminishing Returns
And the 2nd half of the last two games shows it. The offensive numbers are almost identical across the board between the Jaguar and Seahawk games.
What has it produced?
17-20 points per game
300 passing yards (190 yards the 1st half) so that is nearing the 2/3 ratio
Alex completing 27 passes out of 43 attempts with passer rating around of 95
A run game of less than 10 carries for 25-30 yards
The 49ers are not taking their foot off the pedal the 2nd half, they are getting beat for a total 3 points and 100 yards of offense What’s happening is what old adage says would happen, a heavy passing offense will fade down the stretch. This is the equivalent of a boxer throwing 150 punches in the first five rounds and a statistician pointing out that fighter X would have continued to dominate if they just kept up the pace for the rest of the fight. The offense cannot throw a barrage of hay makers for 60 minutes, they need to mix in less effective attacks to setup and maximize the effect of their hay maker shots.
I’m also sick of this logical fallacy:
Colts, Patriots and Saints are winners
Colts, Patriots and Saints are statistically heavy passing teams.
Statistically heavy passing teams are winners.
The 49ers are no where near those teams in passing efficiency. The formula doesn’t work, it’s time to hit the chalk board to draw up a new one.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
But that’s assuming the 49ers offense is operating at peak efficiency and has hit the ceiling. Without any trouble, I could point to 35 potential points San Francisco left on the field yesterday with the fumbles and dropped passes. Don’t jettison the plan, work out the kinks.
That’s not saying they don’t need to find a better way to integrate Frank Gore runs into the gameplan, they do. But pass heavy offenses are the way the pendulum has swung in college for the better part of two decades, and it’s slowly starting proliferate through the NFL. The running game simply can’t score points quickly enough to keep up in modern football.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The dropped passes..
Could have stemmed from the players adjusting to the offense, the weather, and situation. But if you throw a lot of passes, you will have drops, and INTs. People also forget that SEA and JAX have poor pass defenses. What I didn’t like was that it seemed the coaches thought that they could be as aggressive in SEA as they were at home against JAX.
Hold on here, I just saw another drop from BAL that could have been a td. Whoa, another drop to a TD, that could have been a PI.
Anyway, I’ll get back to my thoughts later.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lotta shotgun from BAL.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TD BAL...
LOL, this game could also tell us more about the shotgun offense.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cam Cameron has been 100% worst than Jimmy Raye
Watch Ravens go more conventional in the 4th Quarter and catch up using Ray Rice, who on cue has been forgotten by the OC for 3 quarters.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the Colts, Patriots and Saints can knock there opponent out early with 35 points but the 49ers can’t. I brought this up yesterday but most of those dropped passes where contested by the defense, only VD attempts were close to flat out drops and his dropped TD was a contested.
I highly doubt the NFL is going to turn into the college game. College coaches finally got smart and realized the pro style offenses don’t maximize the effectiveness of their two to three superior athletes. This spread type offenses keep the ball in the hands of their uber athletic QB’s and WR’s at a much higher rate taking more advantage of the out gunned defenses, it’s never going to be the case in the NFL.
I’m not a numerologist but the NFL seems to be cyclical with a spike in passing offense effectiveness at the end of the decade. The defenses will catch up quicker than you can say ’00 Ravens, ’91 Giants, ’85 Bears, ’70 Chiefs.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alex looked pretty good under center yesterday
I’ve only made it through the first half on my re-watch but he was very accurate from under center. In fact, I believe both TD passes were from under center.
Interestingly enough, the most egregious dropped balls also came when Alex was under center, which makes me wonder if he throws it harder then because he’s more nervous.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m thrilled with that news. I’m in full agreement of the Steve Young theory that the 49ers won’t get better until Alex can pass the ball under center. They need to run the ball to get better, the shotgun formation doesn’t provide the opportunities.
The problem yesterday was offense just forgoing the run game. Shrink those 45 pass attempts by Alex to 35-38 and give the extra snaps to the run game. According to those idiot coaches, a better balance in play calling won’t significantly effect the number of passing completions because the defense will be more off balance during those passing attempts.
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can run out of the shotgun...
Buffalo did it for years out of the K-Gun. Houston used to run all the time with the “run and shoot.” Hell, the wildcat is nothing more than running it out of the shotgun with a direct snap.
It can be done, it just requires some scheming and planning. Not only would I like to see Frank Gore taking some handoffs out of the gun, I’d like to see some QB running schemes for those 2nd-3 and 3rd-3 situations.
by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nitpick
“The wildcat” while usually a run is much more than running it out of the gun with a direct snap. Not all direct snaps to RBs are “the wildcat”. It’s a specific formation, with a specific theme. That’d be like calling every shotgun formation “the spread” even if it was run with 3TE 2RB.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 8, 2009 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what they're calling the Niner offense these days
even though our base offense is 2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB and is not a spread.
But yes, I agree. I also think that part of Gore’s problem is that we use him as a receiver too much. He’s running over 100 yards per game without getting carries, so when he does get carries he’s not fresh to make the cuts or power his way through like he needs to do.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 8, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side
We are pounding him the ball when he went down earlier this year and came back earlier than recommended by doctors. So there is another advantage to having Gore not rushing 20 times a game and its called career longevity. One thing I believe Sing cares about maybe even more than winning is the well being of his guys and I don’t see him putting a guy at adverse risk if he can avoid it even if he would never admit to him lightening Gore’s load to let him more fully heal.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 8, 2009 5:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side
We AREN’T pounding him the ball
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 8, 2009 5:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
umm...
i guess the fact that the niners OFF, despite being one of the top 10 red zone offenses in the league right now, came away with 0 points in 2 separate trips to the red zone against SEA, totally does not affect this:
17-20 points per game
i honestly have no idea how anyone in their right mind — and i say that figuratively, not as a sign of disrespect — can possibly argue that the offense the past 2.5 games is “not working.” i’m assuming you watched the first 9.5 games, so i really don’t know why you — and other people — seem to be panicking about 1 loss that had more to do with the aforementioned 0 pts in 2 red zone trips than it does with “the offense is not working.” if (a) an official doesn’t have his head up his ass, (b) frank gore doesn’t fumble, and © vernon davis actually catches a pass that he’s caught at least 10 times in the past 3 games for several TDs, then (d) the 49ers score 35 points, easily win the game, and we’re all doing cartwheels celebrating the niners finally having a competent, high-scoring offense after 6 years of browns-esque displays. i just don’t get the knee-jerk reaction complaining about the offense when “the offense” that was being run by the coaching staff put them in position for 5 TDs.
second, you’re setting up a serious strawman argument here. who exactly is arguing that the colts, patriots, and saints are winners because they’re heavy-passing teams? my argument above when i mentioned NE & IND was that both are heavy-passing teams, but only one is 12-0 because its “running or passing when you want to,” not just “running or passing when you need to,” that makes offensive balance so important for winning.
anyway, here’s my logical fallacy:
(A) Frank Gore’s fumble and VD’s drop cost the 49ers 10 points against SEA
(B) Frank Gore and VD are players on the 49ers’ offense
© The 49ers’ offense against SEA was characterized by more passing than running
Therefore, (D) passing more than running is what cost the 49ers 14 points against SEA.
(E) The 49ers lost by 3 points against SEA
(F) 10 points is greater than 3 points
Therefore, (G) passing more than running is what cost the 49ers the SEA game.
it wasn’t “the offense” that cost them the game or made them score only 17 points. rather, it was 2 unbelievable epic fails by offensive players in the execution of that offense. oh, and by the way, i’m sure this is the first time a game has ever been decided because of frank gore’s fumbling-the-ball problem or VD’s hands-of-stone problem. i mean really, to lay this loss at the feet of their “offensive philosophy” when it’s these 2 specific players on these 2 specific plays that cost them 10 points, is one impressive act of extrapolation.
if there’s any appropriate saying related to this whole thing, i prefer “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.”
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Somewhere, Mike Martz is..."
What’s he doing today? Smiling?
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hold on...
let me check his itinerary…
ok, got it…
today, he spent 3 hours editing his resume. tomorrow, he’s sending it off to southwestern idaho state college of the northeast because they’re in the market for a new OC.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was referencing...
your use of that in one of your articles on the offense. I forget which exact one, but I think it was due to the play calling of Raye.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 7, 2009 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, got it...
…just couldn’t resist the “mike martz: NFL OC pariah” joke
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it’s so simple because running backs never fumble and receivers never drop passes. Filter out all mistakes and it’s a prolific offense.
The passing stats were almost identical to the Jaguar game so excuse my hesitation when you suggest the Seahawk game was an aberration.
Another old adage about a pass heavy offenses, they have trouble scoring in the red zone.
The Colts, Patriots and Saints logical formula was meant for someone else, there is a man underneath that straw.
“It was stupid how close we were to putting 40 points on the board.”
- Roy Williams, Sep 19, 2006, After losing 9-6 to Seattle
by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps you didn't read my...
Adjusted BS Rate post? the 49ers are ranked 21st in Fumble Rate. In terms of VD, he’s currently ranked 25th among TEs in catch rate, which is the % of catches he has when he’s the intended receiver on the pass. also, according to vernondavisdrops.com, which is the only place i could find the stats, he had 7 drops through 8 games, which put him on pace for 14 this season. in 2008, braylon edwards led the league with 16, and VD’s pace of 14 would be ranked 2nd.
so, fumbles and dropped passes do happen, but the 2009 49ers are riddled with more than their fair share of both.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
just so i'm clear...
i mean this to say that it’s not the offense that was the problem against SEA, it was the offensive players who have a tendency of fumbling and dropping passes that was the problem.
by Florida Danny on Dec 7, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Learning a new offense in the months of ...
NOV and DEC isn’t the time to do that. If you’re trying to become a passing team in those months, it’s a bit too late to hope for wins doing it. The problem in SEA was that what they thought worked at home against JAX could carry over into SEA on the road. They wanted to pile on the points fast. That’s Mike Martz Mentality. He got fired because Singletary wanted more balance. I think the real reason he got fired was due to he not being a Smith guy, but that’s another whole can of worms. But I think they should have gone with a more balanced attack, because despite 300+ passing yards, they still lost by 3 points. I got hammered here and elsewhere by saying they should have took those easy 3 points in a FG, and let the defense dictate the SEA’s next possession, but my reason is you take a physical attitude with your defense on the road, try to at least believe that your o-line can smash them in the mouth and control the line of scrimmage, and hit them with a big play here and there.
To me, I think the coaches got way ahead of themselves this game. The 49er beat themselves rather than SEA beating them. They beat SEA the first game with Hill and they stacking the box. They could have controlled the first half with more balance and power, and the defense was owning SEA. Then open it up if they had to in the second half.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 8, 2009 12:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
drummer...
please don’t tell me you’re venturing into WishfulThinkingLand with this
try to at least believe that your o-line can smash them in the mouth and control the line of scrimmage
believing despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary sounds pretty nolan-esque to me.
by Florida Danny on Dec 8, 2009 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Singletary talked about the run game in the playoffs...
Back when he believed in the run game. This was a playoff game in the sense of the magnitude of trying to reach the real playoffs. I know you can statistically back how the run game sucks, but if the coaches give up on the o-line in the run game, then they basically have given up on them as a whole. The run game is where an o-line shines. If they can’t coach them up against a tepid team in SEA, then the problem is the coaching, period. GB fixed their problems on the o-line. SF isn’t that bad that they miss Staley, who wasn’t playing well to begin with, that much. Pashos hardly played, and the totally screwed up with that Marvel guy.
For all of the “Coaching Up” hype Sing gets with players who were talented to begin with, this is one area where he is really struggling with.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 8, 2009 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed...
that going for it on 4th and goal was pretty stupid. wasn’t on the game thread at the time, so didn’t have a chance to get your back when it happened. points on the road are too valuable to be screwing around with. plus, a 10-0 lead in the 1st quarter is a lot better than a 7-0 lead. it makes the other team realize they need 2 scores, not 1 score, to tie. it’s like, they can’t pump themselves back up by saying, “we’re only 1 drive away!”
by Florida Danny on Dec 8, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the 1 you always go for it
If you turn it over you’re in position for the slightest Miscue to put 2 points on the board and get the ball back. A bobbled snap or the QB getting his foot stepped on is points on the 1. 4th and 1 at the 3 and beyond Ok there is debate to be had and kicking the field goal is not wrong because the pressure is off the offense at that point. But with the ball on the 1 the chances of success on both sides of ball are much too high to not go for 7 and if you are unsuccessful to play aggressive and try to get the safety.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 8, 2009 5:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure...
…the win probability favors going for it on 4th and goal at the one.
by Bigmouth on Dec 8, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a great explanation...
…by one of the developers of Zeus, the program whose calculations form the basis for win probabilities:
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/the-anatomy-of-a-fourth-down-decision/
by Bigmouth on Dec 8, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our O-line can't run block consistently
we’ve learned that through this season. If we fix that in the off-season great.
I thought there were three really stupid calls this game. One was the 4th and goal—yeah it “worked” in the sense that Walker was open and should have had a TD, but you want to go for the sure points at this stage.
The 2nd was in the 1st quarter in taking the time out after they ruled that the catch was not a first down. At that point I would’ve thrown a challenge flag instead, which still gets you the time off, and if you win gets you a 1st down and the time out back.
The 3rd bad call was the 3rd and 3 on the last drive. For the love of all that’s holy don’t get super agressive at that point in the game. Go for the quick dump off to Gore in the flats, or Davis across the middle, but make sure to get the 1st down. You’ve got 2 time outs, you can burn one right away.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
by smileyman on Dec 8, 2009 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if...
Singeltary had Gore address his o-line and lead them, that may have an effect. I dunno. He is a leader of the team, the true leader on the offense at this point. More of a leader than Davis. Gore is the heart and soul of the offense. Now, he is almost an afterthought because they are such a hard-on for Smith and the passing game. Maybe it’s all about Smith now. If Smith shows he is the future of this team, then ScotM still has a future here as well.
I’m an o-line guy. One of my favorite players is Harris Barton. Bob McKitttrick should be in the HOF.
I think the 49ers would have won this game easily if they played Singletary football. They are playing Martz football now. They should play the Singletary\Martz football of last season, with Smith and all those weapons. Makes you wonder why Martz was fired.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 8, 2009 1:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW...
This is the 3rd time Sing as an HC has faced SEA. First time, it was a game management issue that lost the game, albeit his first game as an Interim. Pass there. Second game, problem’s solved, right? 3rd game, lost to game management issues.
2 games lost to SEA with pass happy offenses. I might be generalizing here, but maybe you guys can help me out here.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 8, 2009 1:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pardon me..
Game Management issues in AZ. Forget above.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Colts, Patriots and Saints
have 3 HOF QB’s and years upon years of continuity with system, coaching, players (mostly)
by Tre9er on Dec 8, 2009 6:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I heart...
…Florida Danny! Love the difference between “true” balance and “statistical” balance. Too many advocates of balance are preoccupied with the latter, which makes no sense. Aiming for statistical balance is like trying to trade off inflation for employment — it just doesn’t work that way. Any statistical balance is a product of efficiency, not the cause.
by Bigmouth on Dec 8, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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