49ers return game: Putting the "special" in special teams
by David Fucillo on Dec 7, 2009 10:00 AM PST
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintHopefully nobody takes offense to "special." I came close to posting a short bus graphic because that's how far Brandon Jones and Arnaz Battle have pushed me. As ugly as yesterday's game was, the biggest momentum change aside from Gore's fumble was probably the screwed up reverse attempt on the first quarter punt. The 49ers had the Seahawks on the ropes and could have sent them to the canvas on that drive. Instead, the drive doesn't even start and Seattle gets the shortest of fields to convert a touchdown.
As much as that reverse bugged folks, the special teams woes go beyond just that one bad play call. Special teams encompasses kicking, punting, returning, and coverage associated with all of that. For the purposes of this post, we'll ignore kicking and punting, because Andy Lee is God and Joe Nedney is sufficiently reliable as the kicker. Rather, I wanted to focus on the return game. I don't even know if you could call it a return game when you're either losing yards or fumbling the return.
Before getting into the ugly, I would like to say that I think Josh Morgan could be on the verge of entrenching himself as one of the team's primary kickoff return men. He's only returned 5 kicks, but he's put together a solid early body of work. His five returns have resulted in 174 yards, good for an average of 34.8. One return was for 76 yards, but his remaining four returns have still been solid enough. While touchdowns in the return game are great, it's really simply a matter of getting some decent starting field position. Thus far, Josh Morgan has done that on a consistent basis. The final four games will hopefully help us determine if he can become a long term return option.
The same cannot be said for the punt return game. I don't think it's even good enough to call it bad. At this point, the best term would probably be abysmal. Arnaz Battle did have a 31 yard return, but it was negated by a block in the back call against everyone's favorite pariah, Mark Roman. The 49ers final punt return numbers yesterday? 5 punts for -3 yards. Really?
I know people have been complaining about the release of Allen Rossum. While he was awesome last year, clearly the team saw a reason to get rid of him, and were somewhat justified by the Cowboys also releasing him. That's not the best reasoning, but it'll have to do for now. However, the point of this post is to consider how the 49ers can improve their punt return game going forward. Battle struggled mightily yesterday, but part of that was due to not getting much in the way of blocking in front of him.
I'm not arguing for bringing Battle back in 2010, but I also think there are other issues to consider. Rather, it seems like the team needs an influx of talent that goes beyond just the return men. Would that be a few low profile signings in free agency? Guys that excel in special teams work (aside from returners) tend to be rather low profile, so I can't see the signings generating a lot of buzz. Honestly, I'm not sure how the team can best go about approaching this in the offseason. Any thoughts?
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Yes and this suggestion is serious
Tell the return man to FAIR CATCH EVERY punt or let it drop. seriously. thats how bad our return men suck i dont even have the faith they can fair catch it and not muff it consistently
I agree
This is obvious. If I were Sing, I would go to Everest, Battle, Jones and whoever else and tell them if you even think about not waving your arm for a fair catch I’m going to kill you. A direct threat. But in all seriousness, they need to just send all 11 guys after a block ala Fresno State. Dead ball when it lands anyway.
I was thinking last night that they should really consider drafting a return man this next time. Not in the top 10, but perhaps the 2nd or 3rd round. Also, I feel that they have plenty of special teams talent, they just need to work on developing those guys. But please, no more gimmicks until you can fair catch like big boys and girls.
49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!
i would be all for an 11 man attempt block
it couldnt hurt it chances, in fact, it probably improves our chances of better field position because the ball has a 50% chance to roll forward. for sure better than anything our returners can do
The way punt return has gone
If they go with an all 11 block attempt, they’ll rough the punter and give the opponent a new set of downs.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
You know
I would be very satisfied with a bluff block. They don’t have to pursue an actual block, just put all 11 on the line and confuse the you know what out of the other team. Nothing to lose or gain in my opinion.
49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!
Actually
Nothing to lose, and quite possibly lots to gain. I mean, what if it caused a shank, just because it hasn’t been attempted before. Also, we came VERY close to blocking several first half punts. Maiocco even commented on that when he closed his first half dialogue when Seattle chose to run out the clock on forth down to close the first half yesterday
49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!
Trindon Holliday in the late rounds?
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Dec 7, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
I like that
I’d like a late round guy who can FOCUS on PR’ing. Only part that sucks is they use a roster spot and we need to carry 3 WR’s that don’t play already…
Tool and Niner football...
It doesn’t get much better than that
Hey, remember that one time when we were arguing and I was wrong? Yeah, me either.
by SanFranSoldier on Dec 7, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Agree completely. I honestly just came to the site in order to make a fanpost or fanshot suggesting the exact same thing. Either that or go for the punt block every time
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Dec 7, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
blitz 9 and go for the block.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Couple things
The lack of speed at nickel safety shows itself both on pass defense and special teams. Roman had the totally unnecessary block in the back and also was too slow in giving up a TD pass. Upgrading that position helps both nickel defense and ST blocking/coverage units.
As much as a dynamic returner, for both punt & KO, would be invaluable, just having someone who inspires confidence that they won’t fumble/muff, fair catch when appropriate vs let bounce when appropriate is all I ask.
Much like having a good RB or QB that an o-line enjoys blocking for, a solid returner would likely inspire the unit to just do their job and not feel as though they have to make every block, including those in the back, to spring him for a paltry five yards. It also means the ST coach can be more basic and just let the guy do his job.
Laslty, I wouldn’t have called for the reverse. No gambling when you have the game, early as it was, under control. But I heard Morgan on TV say that the message from Sing was that the team didn’t come to Seattle to kick FGs or be passive and lose. The coaching decisions all game were about being the aggressor and trying to make a play instead of waiting for Seattle to make a mistake. As much as I hate the ST decision, I appreciate the attempt by Sing and his staff to put the players ina position to win the game instead of not lose it. Perhaps that confidence will show benefit in future games.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Javier Arenas
I posted this in the other post, but since this post seems o’so fitting. He’s not only a CB with some speed, but an amazing kick and punt returner, he’s was about to break Wes Welker’s College KR/PR Records…. Please someone tell me am I just infactuating or is he a good possible draft pick probably 3rd round
I'm in this boat
though I was thinking 2nd round
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Also might want to check out Perish Cox
" Even as a freshman Cox was one of the best returners in the nation and ran one kick-off back for a touchdown. In 2007 he returned one kick-off and one punt for scores and he scored twice on kick-offs in 2008, amassing a total of 895 return yards on kick-offs. He has yet to return a kick or punt for a touchdown yet in 2009, but he continues to be a dangerous kick returner. "
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=2183
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
3rd round seems right
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't take him in the third
He isn’t fast enough nor does he have the size to compete with WR’s in our division. I’d take a WR to fill this role or a RB simply because the speed I am talking baout will be helpful on offense as well.
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
This would be wise
WR or RB for the 3rd… possibly even 2nd depending on how well we do with the first 2
We met in a past life and you were wrong then too
Where you been I put up another post for the offseason
Let me know I will delete it if you had osmething brewing like Deion Sanders
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
how is this?
I’m pretty sure it’s not true. Sure he doesn’t have size, but he’s plenty fast.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Just talking size
Not totally against it though he is a tough kid at a tough school and he made a wonderful play that made Tebow suck it!
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
I disagree
He has plenty of speed and he’s a natural at returning punts.
Besides he would only be a dime-back on the team (probably replacing Mark Roman).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
"We don't need no stickin' Arenas . . ."
Arenas is just a poor man’s C.J. Spiller. Grantmp, you are right CJ, is like Reggie Bush, but with the return ability of a Percy Harvin. C J is not big enough to be an every down back, but that’s perfect for the Niners (and not teams projected to draft before them). Last week against Georgia Tech, he had 2 TD runs under 10 yards and 2 TD runs over 30 yards (Reggie has 5). C J is a Heisman finalist, the ACC Top Offensive Player and its Player of the Year. He was the nation’s only player this season to account for touchdowns 5 different ways: rushing, passing, receiving, and on kick and punt returns.
As in the other post, C J would provide immediate, dramatic help. Field position played a crucial role yesterday. Niners could dominate that aspect of the game with Andy Lee’s leg and C J’s pro bowl potential as a return man. Spiller’s exceptional hands & scoots allow the Niners the situational options to: Rotate C J with Delanie Walker, pairing with either Gore or Coffee for the Niner version of "Thunder & Lightning." OR Replace Gore/Coffee arming Alex with a C J "silver bullet" (red & gold magnum) for his Raye Gun.
What draft position would provide such an immediate and dramatic impact? OL? DEF? Depending how the draft goes, the Niner’s second 1st round pick should still yield a top tier OL, DB, or a pass rushing DE/OLB. If the 49ers are to turn around its return game and they are committed to this offense, they either need to get C J or need to get "a CJ" like Arenas.
pffff
I don’t think the (soon to be) all time NCAA punt return yardage leader is a “poor man’s” anything when it comes to the return game.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Spiller will never be anither Reggie Bush
He ran for 200 yards with turf toe the other day. Please this guy is the real deal
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
Spiller is?
Please. He’s, at best, the 3rd best rb in college right now. Good? Absolutely. Someone worth picking in the first round with our needs at OL and S? Ha. Talk to me if he’s still around when we pick in the 2nd.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I think Spiller is
Sharlon, I’d more than talk, if he’s still there in the 2nd round, I’d be screaming at the TV! One of the other posts made a case, dependant on the talks, to address the OL need in the UFA pool. Don’t know if a top S or OL would put the special back into special teams.
no but
Arenas is likely to be available in the 2nd, and maybe even the 3rd. Other returners likely will as well. I just don’t see Spiller as a special talent. A good one, but not worth a 1st rounder to this team.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
He is special, he is . . . !
Rossum was released because he was thought to be just (an)“other” kick returner. One of the sites, http://www.drafttek.com has Spiller as #1 Kick Return. They also have him as #1 Change of Pace RB. The Niners have had trouble on 3rd down conversions. Imagine Alex Smith choosing between the mismatches of Davis, Walker, or Crabtree while still having the drop off option to the truly explosive C J Spiller coming out of the backfield . . . seems special to me!
Arenas is a CB, Spiller is a RB
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
stop calling reverses
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
just on ST right?
The ones on offense work fine
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
Starting field position yesterday from punts
Own 21
Seattle 42
Own 13
Own 8
Own 20
Own 5
Own 6
Own 13
Own 2
Own 11
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Or on the defense for not protecting FP when the offense did flip it.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
I think it comes with the games and offenses and defenses have to play through these type of times.
What happened in the 3rd was good football on both parts of the team, it’s just when the O got going there was a dropped pass, turnover, or bad call that ruined the drive.
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
Create Great Field Position!
Hopefully, for your own team. Not the bad guys.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
don't get it
why even CALL THE FRICKIN REVERSE in the first place. my god it worked only a couple times all year long and that’s when ball monger clements was in there. like ya’ll said they’re barely good enough to call a fair catch….AND CATCH IT
I will tell you this much
The window licking ST coach is quote unquote “special” but there isn’t anything special about our returners, thus a reverse on a punt return is blatently stupid. I don’t know if the 7-0 start and a punt ignited a flame in the window licker’s mind but that was the worst ST play of the year and ultimatley kept Seattle in the game and gave them momentum going into the second half.
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
And...
there was absolutely NO need for it. They had the lead and momentum, and crap like that you do when you aren’t capable of competing with the other team. I mean seriously, what was wrong with getting the ball between the 30-40 yard line? F’ing idiots
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 7, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
They were actually settting up that reverse from the first punt return
You can see Jones and Battle run a fake reverse the very first punt.
So it wasn’t a decision of “Hey, we’re ahead by 7 lets do this”. They were planning it from the get go.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Ug, Mark Roman...
If I didn’t hate him so much, he would make me laugh. More than any other player I’ve ever seen, he benefits from having tons of experience, but does absolutely NOTHING with it.
How many times this year have we seen Roman be in PERFECT position to make a defensive play (which I chalk up to experience) but then NOT make the play.
That first TD pass to Branch yesterday was a prime example. Roman did a great job shadowing Branch the whole way, was in his face with his back to the ball, but didn’t even get his arms up to knock it down. Hasselbeck new he would be beat. Had Roman turned around, INT.
Couple that with the block in the back and the Favre Fiasco, he needs to go. He’s made exactly TWO plays this year (a pick against Cutler and a knocked down screen pass). Get him out of here.
experience without any talent is sorta useless
“he’s in position to jump up and knock the pass down…but wait…he can’t jump that high!”
How come no one is chewing out Al Everest?
who ever made the call for the reverse needs to hear it. i was listening to the game on the radio (westwood1) and all i heard was how impressive the O looked then you hear they fumbled on a punt/reverse. “The 49ers are trying to get cute” WTF, just return the damm ball. also, i didnt see the 4th and 1 at the goal line but those were 3 points that were crucial….
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"
It was gutsy...
and Walker could have had it if not for the defender riding him like a pony before the ball got there, and to make it worse the ref was 2 feet away looking at the play and didn’t call it.
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 7, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
he still had it...
I know he was mangled…but man we gotta start making the tough catches no matter what.
All the receivers better be doing drills or catching balls from the Wurlitzer or whatever the damn thing is called…ALL WEEK!
That is the window licker
Special as in “special”
Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!
you forgot
the punt coverage failure on the last punt of the game.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Battle...
As much as it pains me to say it, Battle has got to go. The team has improved the roster to the point where he is not talkented enough to be on the roster.
I love the guy, he is a warrior and used to be our best reciever but now he has to go.
Morgan (while good at it) needs to not be returning kicks. He needs to be 100% focused on becoming a better WR.
We need to get someone in the draft you can return punts and kicks. Perhaps a guy who is a change of pace RB to compliment the smash motuh styles of Gore and Coffee. Javhid Best anyone……
They also need to STOP with the reverses. It is just s tupid play call on so many levels.
by What you talking bout Willis on Dec 7, 2009 1:27 PM PST reply actions
should of gotten rid of battles sorry a$$ instead of Rossum
anyone agree? how is Rossum doing now??
DUBfan4life!!!!
Rossum
He’s out of the league. He was signed by Dallas, got hurt fairly soon after and was waived 5 weeks later.
by David Fucillo on Dec 7, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Did you do the money signs for S’s in a different comment? Hiding your language behind symbols isn’t making much of an effort to abide by the site decorum standards.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
reply button
Are you talking to me? If so, it’s best to use the reply button that is underneath each comment.
by David Fucillo on Dec 7, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Fooch
how many times would you say you post that comment in a day?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
comment
I think if you combined the times I say it with everybody else says it, lord only knows.
by David Fucillo on Dec 7, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
yes he's out of the league
but that doesn’t mean he does not belong in the league. who would you rather have returning punts, battle or rossum?….
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"
returns
I think a bigger problem is the protection in coverage of the punt returner.
by David Fucillo on Dec 7, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
Our biggest issue
is PR blocking. I know I’m going to get killed for this, but Battle is actually a decent returner with the ball in his hands. Yes he muffed a couple of punts early, but he hadn’t returned in years. But he doesn’t dance like Jones. He’s not super fast but he’s tough and fairly good at getting yards when he actually gets a seam to run in. I think it’s something that gets lost in the TV angle but seeing the punt coverage running down is usually either off the screen or the sideline view doesn’t give a sense of the spread of defenders.
That being said, I definitely think it’s a position to upgrade. Out of curiosity I’d be interested in seeing Morgan get a go at it in addition to KR. At this point, why not?
Our #2 WR!
I don’t think it’s a wise thing to expose our #2 WR to more possibility of injury. I’d almost say give J Hill a shot. He was touted three years ago as possibly the fastest WR in the draft.
Almost had one
Even though he only had four of them, I kinda felt like we had a PR (or at least a temporary bandaid) with Nate Clements before he went down. He does have the best average of everyone that has returned a punt this year.
But long term, Spiller, Shipley, Arenas. There are three names, go get one of them!
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