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Frank "The not so much a tank" Gore



Alright, I know its coming for this post, but I want to make it clear first of all that I love Frank. I root for him every week. I have his jersey and I own him on my fantasy team.I love Frank Gore and want to see more games like the first against Seattle in his 49ers career.

But, unfortunately, it seems like something bad is happening to Frank. Don't get me wrong, I know our O-line isn't getting a push and the play calling has really gotten away from the run in the past couple weeks, but he isn't finding the holes like he used to. So, I wanted to pose a discussion question. What is happening to Frank Gore? Is his tenure as a 49er coming to an end? If you think so, what should we do? Should we make an attempt to trade him while he still has much value? Should we draft another top running back who could run better out of the spread? Depending on your response to the poll, what should happen?

Poll
What is the problem with Frank Gore?
Is Frank Gore's legs catching up with him after a heavy workload to start his career?
12 votes
Is it all the O-line's fault?
36 votes
Is it all the O-coordinator's play calling?
19 votes
Is it a mix of all of the above?
55 votes

122 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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This is all on the O-Line

At first it was the QB play and O-Line together, but now it’s the O-Line. That’s why the OC doesn’t run

Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!

by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 9:44 AM PST reply actions  

I don’t think it’s just the O-Line. I think Gore is protecting his body more. renke81 talks about how he’s not finding holes the way he used to, but I’m not sure he ever “found” holes. It always seemed to me like he made them. Even when he didn’t have room to run, he used to carry piles. He’d move his legs until he was long-past being tackled. He’d get a lot of second-effort yards.

The O-Line is terrible this year, and they have to carry a lot of the blame for Gore’s inability to move the ball, but I also really think he’s not the same runner that we remember from 2006. He’s had some ankle problems. He has the knee history. Running backs are notorious for not lasting in the NFL, and he’s always been considered a smaller guy to begin with. It does look to me like he’s taking the ends of his runs a little easier for the sake of saving his body. So he can stay on the field. Which is a good thing and a bad thing.

And I’m not trying to criticize Frank. I think his value to this team is still very high, both as a blocker and as a receiver. But I wouldn’t be surprised if his best days as a runner are simply behind him.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I love Gore..

But there were several times yesterday where he was just going down/out of bounds before the hit, instead of fighting for extra yards.

by randolphforpresident on Dec 7, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't know if I can necessarily agree with that

just look at how he pass blocks. The man has no fear when it comes to planting his feet in front of a linebacker or D lineman running full speed for the QB. I’ve watched the hits he takes in the pocket, vicious stuff.

by Kaizre on Dec 7, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not knocking his blocking, though.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

It always seemed to me like he made them.

This. People didn’t just call him “Frank the Tank” because it sounded cool.

by sfgfan on Dec 8, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

We need someone to split carries with him like a change of pace guy

49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha

by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 7, 2009 9:53 AM PST reply actions  

Yes the 49ers do...

Preferably, someone with the speed to make it around the outside edge so we can add a new dimension to the running game.

by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I like Spiller

I know he would be a high pick but this kid is the real deal

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Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!

by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 9:57 AM PST reply actions  

He's 6'1 235-240

but runs a 4.5… Reads his blocks and is an intelligent running allowing them to develop, cuts like a like a guy 20 lbs lighter finishes his runs by punishing defenders… Has great balance and is a very capable pass blocker.

Oh and in 311 carries, 26 TD’s, 1730+ yards rushing and 10 receptions for 149 yards has not fumbled once all season.

Larry Csonka would be proud

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 8, 2009 1:32 AM PST up reply actions  

The fumbles might be an error

according to ESPN he hasn’t fumbled his entire college career and I find that hard to believe.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 8, 2009 1:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I actually am up for trading him for picks in this years draft or a solid corner

i love frank but we need to get value out of our aging players and replace them with younger guys. think like the patriots with what they do every year. richasrd seymour etc

by june8thjrat on Dec 7, 2009 10:15 AM PST reply actions  

no

we don’t want a rookie or second year RB in there for blitz pickup on 3rd down. Norris missed a lot of blocks lately in blitz pickup and pass protection in general.

We don’t have guys with enough experience on the bench who can step up if Frank were to leave. Maybe after camp next year and pre-season a rookie or Coffee will impress enough to trade Gore by the deadline…but I sincerely hope we can help him find a way to be successful again.

by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

ya i wasnt thinking of blitz pickup good point, also

is it me or does it look like moran norris is horrible out there?

by june8thjrat on Dec 7, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

it's not you

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Dec 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

it's you

and everyone else too

by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed...

Pats have been notoriously good at knowing when they have exhausted the players full potential and end up getting great value out of trades. It doesn’t seem faithful, but this game is not about emotions of players. Its about winning. Remember, there were a few other players we traded/released years ago…Montana and Rice. Frank carries value now. I love the guy and wear his jersey with pride, but we need wins.

by McBain10 on Dec 8, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

If not for the price, we probably could have used Rice for another two years back then.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 8, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

We got rid of Lott too soon

And it cost us a SB, plus put the Raiders in the playoffs. A double hurt. And as howy said, Rice would’ve been great to have for another two seasons. And the Raiders wouldn’t have made the SB.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 8, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I believe Lott and Craig both left as free agents to get more money. I’m pretty sure we were willing to re-sign both of them. If I’m not mistaken, Craig even says that leaving for a bigger contract was the biggest mistake of his career.

I’d have to check on that to be sure, but if memory serves that’s how it went down.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 8, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

The old Plan-B free agency

We didn’t protect either, thus making them both FA, because they were older and we had just lost the NFC championship game. The assumption was that Ronnie wouldn’t go anywhere and he had lost a step anyway but he was hurt and felt (understandibly IMO) disrespected. For a guy whose whole career and being was about respect, he went to a rival team and that was playing us in ’91.

The Craig one I better understand but Ronnie should never have been left unprotected. I think holding on to Eric Wright one extra season, in hopes of he and the other vets getting a fifth title, despite his no longer being effective due to injury, led the FO to not want to make the same mistake with Lott. The Montana of our defense.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 8, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

We don't need an every down back...

I love gore, but maybe with our new system he doesn’t fit in with what we want to do.
We could trade Gore for a top notch player or even a first round pick next year. Then take a guy like CJ Spiller, who would be a great target out of our spread packages.
Just an idea, only 9 touches…. thats n ot gonna work

by GMARCH on Dec 7, 2009 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

This is the hidden problem on offense

With all the understandable focus on the QB, OL and rookie WR, Gore has not be himself. I think it starts with the line allowing so many negative plays early in the season that Gore is now less patient and only trusts the first hole he sees, no matter how little running room there is.

He used to be an excellent cutback runner and bounce plays off-tackle. Now he often misses the cutback lane or off tackle hole. It all goes right up the middle, usually for very little gain.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 7, 2009 11:15 AM PST reply actions  

His attitude is a direct effect of poor offensive leadership

Raye has not been able to use Gore in any way to help this team. He is more of a TE than a RB, he blocks and catches passes. I’d be trying the option to get this guy involved. (jk)

Black Sand Ninja Here!!
Ban the Trolls, FF find a new home!!

by rlott#42 on Dec 7, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

very good points

I also noticed the line is not run blocking now…and why would they since they’re likely running 54,325 passing plays in practice now that we’ve given up on the run.

by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

True, this is the time to evaluate gore

He still has big trade value. So is he the back that can woork in this system and use for the next 3 years. Or do we need to gert the best value out of him and get a back outta the draft that fits more with what were trying to do. (run the spread)

by GMARCH on Dec 7, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions  

I'd like to place some blame on Moran Norris

The dude has just been awful lately.

He whiffs on blocks (run and pass) and it seems that every time he goes into the game we end up with a negative play.

Two plays from yesterday stand out to me (I don’t remember the down, distance or exactly when they happened though).

1. A pass from under center with Norris and Gore in the backfield, SEA calls a blitz. Moran Norris completely whiffs on his block and Alex Smith gets hammered.

2.A run to the right. Moran Norris whiffs on his block and Gore gets hit in the backfield and is eventually tackled for no gain (there was a big hole, but Norris allowed Gore to be slowed down in the backfield).

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 AM PST reply actions  

Norris has definitely looked awful.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Let's give Miller some time at FB.

He certainly enjoys blocking and seems to do it much better than Norris.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 7, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yuuuup

I like that guy, he fights for every yard.
We need to start some backup guys to see what they got

by GMARCH on Dec 7, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

he's a converted LB

you bet yer a$$ he enjoys hitting people. What’s Norris’ contract look like? Can we cut him now?

by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Hopefully next season

I like that he can catch though.

Lets just hope he’s improving his blocking technique in practice.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate Norris with a passion

He can’t catch, most of the time he misses his blocks, when he does manage to make a block it’s by virtue of falling down in front of the guy. I really want him gone bad.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Dec 7, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

yes cut norris sorry a$$ and trade Frank "cannot find a hole for his career" Gore

the big momentum changer was not the fumble punt return, it was Gores sorry a$$. 5+ pass plays on the drive and 1 run play that turned into a fumble, WTF??? smith should of kept throwing it. What a waste of time watching that game yesterday, playoff my a$$…i still love the niners but yesterday made me deppressed all day..why should they worry about the playoffs when they cant beat losing record teams. This team is sorry.

DUBfan4life!!!!

by BayAreaKidd650 on Dec 7, 2009 1:33 PM PST reply actions  

I agree

I thought it was just the O-line that sucked. He does suck. Every time he is in we have 10 players and the defense has 12

Go 49ers

by iaalexeeff on Dec 7, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Frankly Frank Gore

has me a bit perplexed. I remember watching him in the off season training thinking he was going to have a monster year. Now I’m watching games where he can’t seem to really breakaway and doesn’t get much going up the middle. Anyone who watched early season games after Minnesota knows really knows what I’m talking about because we kept getting stuck in 3rd and 8 situations.

I don’t know what happened but somethings definitely changed. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I honestly thought this was Frank’s year.

by Steve Young on Dec 7, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions  

the offensive line changed

ie. two of them are injured, one of which is on IR, the other of which is the best OL we have. They are starting to play better…and Gore’s vision does leave something to be desired but the team needs to feed him the ball, and not a line of BS about his role. To say he’s still going to be involved and only have him touch the ball about 10 times is a crock.

One series per quarter, one down per series, something, anything to give him a few more touches.

I just thought of something…we should treat the Gore situation like the Alex Smith situation. Final 4 games are the chance to see how he does in this “new yet ever-changing” offense. But we have to give him the ball a tad more before we pass judgement.

by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree.

I think we need to let him get used to running from shotgun, maybe let him get some more direct snaps. I thought Gore handled screens nicely as well.

by Steve Young on Dec 7, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Direct snaps.

I really want to see him take some direct snaps. It kind of gives him that running head start that he gets from the I-formation. Not quite the same, but it’s better than no running start. Heitmann should be fully capable of snapping like this.

by sfgfan on Dec 8, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

We don't do it very often

but every time we do he gets good yardage.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Dec 8, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

What I don't see in Gore right now is something all good backs do.

When get gets hit he stops. Most good RBs keep their legs going.. .pushing for more. I am wondering if his ankle problems are keeping him from fully using his legs?

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Dec 7, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

point is

we need to give him the Alex Smith treatment. Give him the ball and some halfway decent blocking and let him show us what he can do. But we have to give it to him more than 8 times a game. We have to find a way to work in 20 carries for Frank, or maybe 15 plus at least 5 pass targets. He needs 20 touches.

by Tre9er on Dec 7, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I like that idea...

15 runs would be a modest increase, keeping the offense in the air where it’s been more effective. Slowly reintroducing the run into a modified spread offense would seem to be the next logical step in the development of the 49ers offense. I’d also like to see some designed QB sneaks, bootlegs and runs to help keep defenses honest.

by sigma on Dec 7, 2009 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree 9 rushes for 30 something yards just doesn't cut it

but then again we gave him touches in the beginning of the year (Arizona) where he had 20+ and still ran for a measly 30 something yards. I know Arizona has a good rush defense, but come on.

by renke81 on Dec 8, 2009 7:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Some people forget that

That was a hiddeous blocking performance.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 8, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions  

And more importantly ...

Gore has busted some great long runs this year.

But his average, once you subtract those runs, is very mediocre. A running game needs to be consistent, and Frank has been anything but this year (although it may not be entirely his fault.)

by Ronaldinho on Dec 9, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions  

(although it may not be entirely his fault.)

I’d venture to say that a lot of it isn’t his fault. From what I can see, he’s still fully capable of making the first tackler miss or bounce of him in the open field. He just doesn’t have the surroundings to pound it inside as Raye and Singletary were forcing him to do earlier today.

by sfgfan on Dec 9, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

No, not all his fault

And also nothing wrong with being an big play RB. How often do teams talk about facing Peterson or Johnson, that you know if he gets his 20+ carries he’s going to break at least one or two big gainers. If Gore had that type of O-line and was getting 20-25 touches per game, I’d be happy having him get 3-6 yards on most carries then burn a defense with one 40 yard run and maybe one long TD run. It’s all about blocking and opportunities.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 9, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d have to check the numbers on it, but it doesn’t seem like he’s actually getting 3 – yards on most carries.

Could be perception bias, though.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

My 6 disappeared.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

He's not

I meant if he had an o-line such as Peterson. I would then expect him to consistently get small chunks of positive yards. I’d also expect more big runs and pass plays with that kind of blocking.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 9, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I see. That makes perfect sense.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

The blocking hasn't been good ...

… but the challenge is that, when RBs hit the wall, they hit the wall HARD, and they can go from extremely effective to washed up in a season, surprisingly fast.

Two years ago Tomlinson was the most-feared RB in the league. Now he’s below average. Terrell Davis had four awesome years and then was done. Eddie George had five very good seasons, then became completely stoppable.

I think this is a particular risk for bruising, physical backs. They just take so much abuse, particularly on teams with mediocre offensive lines, that they wear down … fast.

So I have no doubt that the blocking has been bad this year. The question is, has the wear-and-tear of being the most important part of our offense for the last four years cost Gore half a step, so he no longer has the explosiveness he had 2-3 years ago?

I don’t claim to know the answer. I know that part of the reason the team drafted Coffee, however, was that they were worried about it.

by Ronaldinho on Dec 10, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Not with our current line lol

49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha

by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 7, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Frank is great but is injury prone...

I think we should keep Gore and pick up CJ Spiller. AT first to KR/PR,maybe a couple snaps a game when gore is resting. But throwing him screens and lining him up in the slot would also qork very well and create big plays.

by GMARCH on Dec 9, 2009 1:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Remember that Seattle has an excellent run defense.

I think a lot of Niners fans forget about this because Gore had such a great game against them last time, but of course they were missing their key defensive run-stopper.

So let’s not jump to any conclusions about Gore just yet.

by Ronaldinho on Dec 7, 2009 2:27 PM PST reply actions  

I am not jumping to conclusions.. I am definitely sitting.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Dec 7, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think we are trading gore anytime soon. When they fix the o line he will be back to normal

49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha

by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 7, 2009 2:56 PM PST reply actions  

I will shoot Old Yeller before I give up on Frank Gore

His track record is just too good. He’s had to run behind a putrid run blocking offensive line and his production has been a victim of circumstance the last few weeks. He was the best player on the field against the Bears and carried the offense in the 4th quarter when he was given the opportunity.

His fumble yesterday came from trying to punch off the guy beneath him to break a big run. Usually running backs are toast when they can no longer break a long run, he’s proven plenty capable of hitting the long run. Get Gore some freaking help!

by bignerd on Dec 7, 2009 3:34 PM PST reply actions  

Yep.

Too easy to forget the Bears game. Also too easy to forget that the run blocking started poor from play number one in Arizona. Richal has improved and Sims has done better than anyone (me included) could’ve imagined. But this is not a run blocking line. I wonder how much better, even slightly, we’d be on offense and running had Pashos not been injured.

As for the fumble, what’s so maddening about it, besides the timing, was that it was an excellent play by the defender and bad luck that Frank hadn’t already gone down. He seemed to be one arm tackle away from getting a huge run and instead fumbles. The long return made it worse. As you said, give Frank some help and those kind of plays are big gainers.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Dec 7, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever happens with Frank...

one of the major issues I have had with play calling is that we run very few times out of anything but an I-formation. I do think Raye has adjusted well, but when I know a run is coming because we switched from Spread to I-formation, then the team across the field knows a run is coming even more so. Let’s get this issue fixed Jimmy!

by renke81 on Dec 8, 2009 1:19 PM PST reply actions  

we just need to start running some play action. we have great personnel for it.
and running draws is probably not a bad idea either.

by hellaninersfan on Dec 8, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

The offense tried early in the season

The problem was the OT couldn’t get a finger on the DE’s who kept blowing up the plays for huge losses.

by bignerd on Dec 8, 2009 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

The problem was the OT couldn’t get a finger on the DE’s who kept blowing up the plays for huge losses.

This. People seem to forget that PAs and draws take time to develop. Until the last two weeks (going against fairly poor pass rushing teams), the QB didn’t have very much time to let a play develop.

by sfgfan on Dec 9, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Apparently...

… he doesn’t think option three expresses his feelings well enough?

by sfgfan on Dec 9, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

This poll was skewed by the wording.

It is primarily a result of injuries to the offensive line and ineffective run blocking after losing Pashos and Staley.

by zacksf on Dec 9, 2009 7:42 PM PST reply actions  

lol at this thread now. ya’ll are fickle.

by hellaninersfan on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 PM PST reply actions  

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