How Much is Singletary to Blame?
There's one thing that I think very few people would argue with. Mike Singletary is a great motivator. His players have really bought into his system and really want to succeed for him. But when it comes to X's and O's I think he still has a lot to learn. The 49ers have lost a lot of close games this year and some of that blame has to fall with the man who's currently the face of the franchise, Mike Singletary. Don't misunderstand me. I love Singletary. I also think the 49ers still have a good chance of finishing without a losing record for the first time since 2002. I just think Singletary still has a lot to learn about being a head coach in the NFL.
By far and away his biggest mistake was the hiring of Jimmy Raye. Raye is a man who, before coming to the 49ers, was the OC for 6 different teams over 11 years. That's an average of less than 2 years per assignment. Three times, with the Rams, Patriots, and Redskins, he only lasted 1 season. And only one time, with the KC Chiefs, did he last more than 2 (he lasted 3). I still have a hard time understanding the motivation behind the choice. Maybe he just wanted someone he knew wouldn't question him. So the question I have is, how much is Singletary to blame for the current struggles of the 49ers?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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blame
we’re all looking for someone to “blame” but, i don’t think blame is the right word. It would be too easy to blame york for all this but like the discussion went yesterday he is trying. ( i hope) and i think sing’s trying too. real hard in fact, maybe too hard? i don’t know but i can’t blame him.
Evenly shared...
I think that Jed pulled the trigger too quickly on the hiring of Singletary. Had he waited a few weeks, he would have seen that Shanahan was available and maybe could have convinced Cowher or Holmgren to come out of retirement.
Coach Sing definitely has his faults, but you can’t question his impact on the team. Just listen to the players when they speak about the games/team/players. They always preach Coach Sing’s philosophy and have all bought into his ideals. The X’s and O’s certainly have been questionable, but his intentions and ability to get the best out of his players is a great attribute.
The players need to execute no matter who is calling the plays. Fumbles, dropped passes, missed tackles…all of those things are not the fault of the coaches. No one questioned Walsh when Montana threw an INT or when Roger Craig fumbled. We just need to remember that these athletes are paid to do what they do…and heavily. The minute they screw up or fail at their job, they need to be held accountable.
Overall, its a pretty even split accross players, coaches and front office on why the Niners haven’t made a playoff push in the last 7 years. But I don’t think we are far away. A few changes on all sides and we are right there. I will back all decisions made because I support the team, but I don’t think one person or even one department is to blame.
Shanahan
Wow this guy did nothing as a coach. He won two superbowls on a team that was ready when he got there. Then when his draft picks and players he selected pregressed his team sucked. He is just like Gruden, he inherited a defense changed the scheme and was lucky to have a HOF QB (unlike Gruden). After Elway retired what did he do? Fail, at the end of his tenure his team played like the nolan 49ers and that woudl have been bad for our identity
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Yeah, his non-Elway teams only went 91 – 69. That guy was a terrible coach.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 10, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Did he win another playoff game after Elway?
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 10, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Yes.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 10, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Well maybe I should have said that when it was his team to build he didn't do so well
He also played in the AFC West where the only comp was the Chargers of late or early against the Chiefs, it’s not like that division was good all the time. The didvision was at it’s best when he had Elway. His team often choked in the playoffs and the following season in which he left the defense has played a lot better and that was supposedly the teams weak spot. I think he would be great as an OC but i don’t think he gets his teams eady to compete from top to bottom and if he were here I think the team would not be as good.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
I do find the Shanahan facination a bit odd
I mean, yes, he had an excellent run as HC. He is still one of the most aggressive play callers around the NFL. But he has as many playoff wins the past eleven seasons as the Niners: one. Despite coaching in a division that saw Oakland as the only other team to win a playoff game between 1999-2006 (well below the NFC West). Despite having decent to top offensive lines, capable QBs, and the top CB in the game. He was changing D-coordinators almost every year which is about as smart as us changing OC every season. Oh, he was also part of a franchise that has won fewer than 8 games only four times since 1976, once being a strike year.
So maybe it wasn’t all him being successful, as McDaniels is experiencing. And maybe without Elway, we have to admit that he bears a great deal of responsibility for one playoff win in ten years. If he did that in SF, Niner fans would be calling for his head. How in the world does that make him a savior at anything other than offensive coordinator?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you’ve said here. I do think it’s a little strange to suggest that there is an organization ability for that team to win more than 8 games a season despite its staff or personnel, but I imagine I’m taking you too literally on that point anyway, so I won’t press it.
There is a very legitimate argument to be made for Mike Shanahan being less than an overwhelming success in Denver.
However, what I do disagree with are statements from rlott’s post like:
Wow this guy did nothing as a coach.
Or:
Then when his draft picks and players he selected pregressed his team sucked.
Because it’s abjectly untrue. His winning percentage post-Elway was overwhelmingly positive.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 10, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
That it is incorrect to say he did nothing as coach. Along with the obvious (SB), he took Wade Phillips’ average team and turned it into a winner his second season. He was a young coach with a plan who was fortuante to inherit a HOF QB. Add water and it worked quite well. My problem is that people forget that was fifteen years ago. It’s like re-hiring Parcells, Gibbs, or the team that re-hires Cower. At some point those guys were inexperienced coaches needing an opportunity, and it was better to hire them than a retread from the previous decade.
My point about the organization was more about stability, good scouting, etc. Much better to be part of a team that has structure and stability at the top so you can focus on coaching. It tends to mean that any downturn is short lived instead of becoming the permanent existance (such as TB, Cincy and Oakland for long stretches).
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
So you have 6 games vs one of the worst divisions in football
You have one win in the playoffs in 10 seasons. yeah he did nothing as a coach in my book. He obviously is a regular season coach like Marty S. While Marty has had some of the best teams in the regular season he couldn’t win in the playoffs so his teams were never up to play in the big games, and I fugured this is what we want from a coach, someone who has his team ready to play. Talent wise this 49er team is far inferior to those Shanahan had, so why would you want him, knowing he would want GM responsibilities as well. he’s a control freak that does nothing with the control.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
I don't want him as HC
I’ve stated that a few times, including this post.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
The argument that Shanahan won with his predecesor's team is not true
In fact, Shanahan brought in Davis, and built the offense around him. People forget, but Elway was a very average QB during that championship run.
He did seem to let his ego get in the way a little much after the super bowls, and I agree with you that his penchant for making big moves seems to have hurt at least as much as it helped. But let’s give credit where it’s due … the guy did a lot of stuff right.
That average QB made the plays down the stretch in those SB runs
S Sharpe had a lot to do with that success, I will give it to Shanahan he is an offensive genious, but I think he was an overrated coach. There is also more to a team than a RB. Shanahan always had a successful RB so if Elway was average why is it that he didn’t win more than 1 playoff game in 10 seasons?
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
I wonder if you read my whole post or just responded to the headline
Because otherwise it’s hard to know why you ask a question that my second paragraph answers.
???
Why does someone have to be blamed for every loss?
Maybe the other team should be given at least a little credit for winning.
And maybe the ball just did not bounce favorably for the 49ers.
Players and coaches make mistakes, but surely it’s important that they, we, anyone, learn from the bad things that happen and the mistakes become a learning experience.
The first mistake in any situation may be acceptable, but the second, the failure to learn form that mistake might not be.
And, of course, maybe the refs did suck!
Maybe the other team should be given at least a little credit for winning.
If Danny’s post has anything to say about it, the Seahawks gift-wrapped that game for us, and we thanked them by handing it right back.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 10, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
According to Merriam-Webster, the defenition of blame is:
To hold responsible: To place resposibility for.
Doesn’t Singletary bare some of the responsibility for the 49ers struggles?
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
One more maybe:
Maybe I am prone to make excuses when the 49ers lose.
The players need to execute no matter who is calling the plays. Fumbles, dropped passes, missed tackles…all of those things are not the fault of the coaches.
I respectfully disagree. Good coaching = Good execution.
A dropped pass here, a blown assignment there, a poor PR all individually are the fault of the individual players involved. But when you all of those things happening multiple times on a given Sunday like the last game or even worse the ATL game and that points to something more serious ~ questionable coaching.
I'm still not convinced.
Questionable focus is more like it.
If you go over tackling angles in practice all week and your team is still missing tackles the coaches are still at fault? There has to be accountability of these players and majority of them hae none. All it takes is one or two guys not focusing and an entire defense can be thrown off.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Coach all you want
Harlason isn’t Haley. Sopoaga isn’t Dent. Goldson isn’t Hanks. And this o-line isn’t up to par with any line the Niners had during any playoff season. They can be coached what to do and try their best, but often fails because they’ve not yet good enough. Perhaps not yet good enough. Perhaps some never will be. Or it gets easier with experience and when another playmaker or two gets added on the unit. But the kinds of mistakes you’re listing fall more on players than coaches.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Another claim about the X's and O's
Singletary is not lacking in this department. Only when it comes to the offense. He allows his coordinators to do their job. The only blame to be issued is to the players and the FO of recent years for not even having an initial core of OL. I would say that within the first 3 years of being a GM you would have at lease 3 starters on the OL that will be there and capable for the next 3 to 4 years. Our O-Line is in shambles and this game is won in the trenches. This league is cause and effect, let me explain, Since we are weak in trenches on the OL the offense can’t use a lot of clock hence our defensive lapse in several 4th quarters and yo can also lay the offensive production at the feet of the LOLine as well. Kentwan Balmer will remain to be the worst draft selection on this team currently IMHO. Not taking anything from him or Crabtree (2nd worst) but there were other position of needs that needed to be addressed and the effect of those needs not being addressed is our inability to close out teams running the ball and our nack for giving up the big sack and turnovers.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
There's no debate that our O-Line's terrible
I’ve even said that I wouldn’t mind if the 49ers used both of their 1st round picks on the O-Line. But I don’t think all the blame (responsibility) should be put on them. The 49ers have lost a lot of close games this year. Shouldn’t Singletary bare some of the responsibility for the 49ers not coming through in the clutch? I’m sure he would say that he should.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
Yeah, some of the blame
We lost that game when Davis didn’t make a play and when Gore fumbled and that is never on the coach.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
Singletary has made his share of rookie mistakes this year ...
… but you know what? It was his rookie year.
I remember reading – I think on FO – that changing coaches usually results, in the short term, on teams getting worse by a small amount. (This is unlike baseball, where a manager change usually bumps a team up a few wins). Continuity matters.
If you like a guy enough to hire him, you absolutely, positively, have to give him two years, barring overwhelming indications of incompetence. You can NOT expect head coaches to drop out of the gates perfect at their new job – they’re entitled to rookie mistakes – and you have to give them a little time to put their system together.
A couple of examples:
Bill Walsh took over a 2-14 team. His next year, “the genius” got the team all the way to … 2-14. The next year, a man who is arguably the most brilliant coach in the history of football took his team to … 6-10.
You rush to judgements there, you fire him.
Bill Bellichek? Greatest coach of the ‘oughts?’ He had three losing seasons as a head coach before he got his team to the postseason. In his second go-around, he took over an 8-8 team and made it WORSE in his first year. Tony Dungy’s first HC job saw his team get worse for a year before it got better.
I could go on. Obviously, I am not claiming that Singletary is a coach of that caliber. My point is merely: if he was, how the heck would we know?
So I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: two years is the MINIMUM a new coach has to get, and even then, in that second year, while you expect to see progress, it’s okay if that progress comes in a form other than wins (which are often the last thing to show up).
by Ronaldinho on Dec 10, 2009 10:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I really like Sigletary
And I’m all for giving him at least 3 years to see what he can do. It just seems that sometimes people act like he’s untouchable. That everything he does is perfect. The 49ers have lost some close games they easily could have won this season. Some of the resposibility for those losses has to fall on the man leading the way.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
I can't recall anybody using the word "perfect" with respect to Sing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you could find somebody who did, mind you, but really, is there a single intelligent fan out there who would use that word to describe him? I don’t think so, not on these boards, not even among his biggest supporters.
Look, there are a few die-hards who will only praise their heroes. Whomever is leading the team is the right guy. But if you’re having a serious discussion, you tune those guys out pretty quickly – they’re not adding anything.
They may not use the word perfect
But lots of fans seem loath to criticize anything he’s done. He’s a great motivator, but he’s lacking a little on the x’s and o’s side of things.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
For me
I don’t look to blame the coach, any HC, when he’s first starting out. It’s too easy and usually off base. At most a new NC is part of the problem, not the problem. If the same issues or worse exist after 2-3 seasons, then he is either the problem or part of an overall problem.
I also think people underestimate Sing’s x’s and o’s due to overestimating his motivational skills. I’ve never seen a new HC be so easily pigeon holed. For example, Mike Tomlin was a D-coordinator for one season and has been around the NFL less time than Sing. Tony Sparano was never an NFL coordinator, just a position coach. John Harbaugh was never a coordinator of offense or defense. Andy Reid was never an OC. All these men were assistants of some type for less than ten years in the NFL, yet when all were hired none of them had to endure questions about their x & o ability. Seems odd.
What Sing wants, and most top coaches have, are coordinators whom they trust and are great at their job. Harbaugh had Ryan and has Cameron. Reid had Johnson and Childress. Tomlin has LeBeau. Sing has what appears to be a developing top guy in Manusky. Give it time to develop, including some of the younger players.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Andy Reid..
Has been coaching for over 20 years, both NCAA and the NFL. He is also a Holmgren diciple.
Sparano has been coaching for over 20 years, both NCAA and the NFL as well, and was hand picked by Parcells.
Harbaugh has been coaching for over 20 years, both NCAA and the NFL, and a Reid diciple.
Tomlin has taken over a well established team and franchise in PIT, but was a coordinator prior.
Well, we're waiting....
I find these comparison's..
To Walsh and Belichick a bit off of the mark due to one real key issue:
Their respective experience as assistants prior of becoming head coaches.
Singletary has only 4 years of experience as an assistant prior to 2008. He wasn’t as coordinator in any of those seasons.
Walsh and Belichick? Well, do I need to go any further?
Well, we're waiting....
I think you read the first two lines of the post.
Belichik didn’t inherit a bad Patriots team. he inherited a Bill Parcels development and it’s the same for the guy in Dallas, he inherited a Parcells built team, but being a poor coach has done nothing with it. if Sing had the coaching job in Dallas they would be a legit threat for a super bowl.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
We’ll win the divsion next year watch.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Dec 10, 2009 11:47 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Give Singletary until the end of his 4th year to show what he can or can’t do. I think he’s probably learned a lot, and he’ll make some changes in the off season. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jimmy Raye goes the same way as Jimmy Ray the singer. Plus, the Niners should have a good draft and (please) hopefully make some good FA pickups.
Alaska is a state, dammit! Can I get a Niner game on TV up here?
x's & o's
maybe be a problem that he has but he still puts the team into a position to win & the players have let us down. coach sing & raye aint the ones dropping tds’ or crucial passes, fumbling, over or under throwing passes or not getting the opposing offenses off the field with the game is on the line. if i’m a blame coach sign for something, it’s going to be for hopefullychange the team around & getting them back to the winning ways like back in the day. even more hope for the dynasty days. i’ve seen this team this year play as good as i’ve seen since the mooch years. this is the best core we’ve had in years(to me). they have talent & youth with time some experience too. unlike previous 6 years, the team is not being blown out & we’re actually winning. they just need to get the choking out of their system, & figure out how they want to run the system.
go niners!!! airday allday
No he can't
Frank ran 9 times and one produced a fumble. Raye called plays to put players in position to score, Davis dropped a TD and Smith made a bad throw to Michael Ducktree!!
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
None, because we're going to the playoffs baby!
Cards: 1-3 rest of the year
Niners: 4-0
Packers at Niners at the ‘Stick!
(must be the ganja, it’s the marijuana…)
doubt it
but i’m still with you though
go niners!!! airday allday
This bears repeating:
Bill Walsh took over a 2-14 team. His next year, "the genius" got the team all the way to … 2-14. The next year, a man who is arguably the most brilliant coach in the history of football took his team to … 6-10.
You rush to judgements there, you fire him.
In respect to what Walsh did?...
Or how this applies to Singeltary?
Because I heard that same Mantra during the Nolan era.
Well, we're waiting....
I don't think you really are...
I just find the Walsh comparison ridiculous.
Well, we're waiting....
Eddie DeBartolo believed in Walsh.
He gave him time to develop.
I believe in Singletary.
You don’t.
We will see who was right.
It's not about who is right or wrong...
You can believe in Santa Claus too. That doesn’t prove a point though, does it?
Well, we're waiting....
Why, Why, Why
Do you constantly clog this post with pointless arguments. I’m sure you will now try to start am argument with me but I Quit, right now.
I'm not arguing...
But really, bringing Walsh into this is pointless because for one thing, it’s an unfair comparison to Singletary. I know fans love to throw around the “Well, Walsh’s record Yadda Yadda Yadda” with reckless abandon while trying to make sense of either Nolan or Singletary’s first years with the team, but there is no real purpose in it but to try and qualify one’s beliefs in either one of those coaches after Walsh.
You’re asking me why I’m clogging this post with pointless arguments?
Hey, Tom Landry started out 0-11!!
Well, we're waiting....
I have to agree with drummer
Walsh’s success has absolutely no bearing on Singletary’s success or failure, just as Mike Nolan’s failure has no beairing. I’m not even sure how Walsh is relevant to the discussion other than to point out that it’s imposible to know for sure if a new head coach will succeed or fail in his first couple of years. But I never said Singletary was destined to fail. In fact, I really hope he succeeds. I was only asking the question, how much of their recent failures is because of Singletary? If we’re going to praise him when the 49ers do well, shouldn’t we also hold him accountable when they don’t? I find it amazing that so many 49er fans are reluctant to hold Singletary accountable for the 49ers recent struggles. It only further proves my belief that a lot of 49er fans seem to think that Singletary can do no wrong.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
So you have to give a new HC time, did we expect 13-3 in one season?
I hope not! It applies to Singletary because he didn’t inherit a playoff team.
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
How is that relevant to the discussion?
Yes, it’s imposible to know in a new head coaches first year if he’ll be able to turn the team around. But I never said he couldn’t. I was only wondering how much Singletary should be held accountable for the 49ers recent struggles. It’s amazing how many 49er fans have bought into the cult of Mike Singletary. I really hope he turns this team around. But I’m not going to give him a free pass just because he says some insperational things.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
Player development is key for a 1st year coach
In you focus on Won-Loss, you start thinking about blame and how badly things have gone…
If you focus on player development, however, you see the amazingly positive trajectory of this team:
Alex Smith
Michael Crabtree
Vernon Davis
Delanie Walker
Josh Morgan
all on very positive trajectories.
Also Staley and, i believe, Rachal, on offense.
On defense:
Willis, Haralson, Brooks, Lawson, Spencer, McDonald
are all young and improving under good coaching.
(Veterans Smith, Franklin and Sopoaga are staying solid as well.)
I see a young team with a young coach on a very positive trajectory.
I do too
But I also see a rookie head coach who’s made some rookie mistakes. I love Singletary. I believe he can get this team on the right track. But I don’t agree with everything he’s done. I asked a simple question. How much should Singletary be held accountable for the 49ers recent struggles? And people get all upset. Why? He’s not perfect. Do you really think he’s made no mistakes? If you do think he’s made some mistakes, then why get upset with the question?
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
And if you think he hasn't made any mistakes
Then you’re living in a fantasy world.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
DIdn't Sing bring in new position coaches?
He’s got an idea, but we all need to know it will take time. He has had some preparation issues, but we have been in nearly every game and the players let the games go not the coahces
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
POINT THE FINGER AT JIMMIE RAYE
I can see both sides of the Walsh/Singletary argument. Singletary inherited a pretty bad situation and seems to have taken them into the right direction as Walsh did. Walsh/Singletary is an absolutely laughable comparison though, as they are complete opposites. It is not ridiculous to expect success from Singletary yet as we have suffered some tough losses this year and easily should be in the hunt for a wild card.
We have some problems. Honestly I dont feel like writing a novel so Im gonna be short and to the point. Team has no sense or urgency and seems to lack confidece. Team has a tendency to play “not to lose” as opposed to playing to win. Recent weeks seem to have taken this into consiration, however. Jimmie Raye is a joke. Once team is ahead Im not sure if they have the killer instinct to really keep attacking and blowing a team away like the old Niners of Montana or Young. Play calling absolutely destroying this organization. We have the talent to be a playoff team. Injuries to Walt Harris and Nate Clements haven’t helped too much either.
Things to be happy about. Davis is a beast. Crabtree and Morgan have a chance to be a good receiving duo, its up to them. Alex Smith looks comfortable in the spread offense and has played effectively. If Gore doesn’t fumble last week or one of those horrible calls go our way and that debacle of a Missile launched by Favre didn’t go through for the Vikings, the Niners are 7-5 and are playing for the division Monday Night.
Its been a tough year. Losing in brutal fashion every week is not something I expected after starting 2-0. If we have to point blame at someone, who else it could be than the remarkably apelike playcalling of Jimmie Raye. This guy is an absolute travesty to offensive coordinators.
by thebayareabeast on Dec 11, 2009 2:22 AM PST reply actions
Point the finger at
Davis, Gore, the window licker, and those idiot refs!!
True knowledge is knowing you know, nothing!!
Blk Sand Ninja-
window licker?
Who the hells the window licker
by thebayareabeast on Dec 11, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
pretty sure it's an aphex twin song
"Pat is still just scratching the surface." - Coach Singletary on LB Patrick Willis
Defensive line rotation
In response to the encouragement from urnext, i thought of a criticism.
In the Minnesota game, on the final drive, I thought the defensive line looked tired. Favre had way too much time. One good hit on him, and that game is over. My feeling at that time was that we did not have a deep enough of a defensive line rotation, and that allowed our pass-rushers to tire, which effected the outcome of that game.
I would assign the responsibility to the coaches, ultimately to Singletary. I think that this issue has been addressed to some degree: with Haralson, McDonald, Smith and Brooks as the passing down front 4, and rotation in of Lawson and and a veteran lineman whose name escapes me at the moment. (i know Lawson also starts in base.)
I am a big believer in a deep rotation for the pass-defense defensive line, so that the pass rush is fresh and aggressive toward the end of games. This year the problem is aggravated by a very weak oline which causes the defense to be on the field for about 15 more plays that we would like to game-plan for.
Right
Singletary has lost close games (for example) IN Minnesota (10-2) and IN Indianapolis (12-0).
With a team that clearly has LESS talent than those two teams.
Yeah, that’s UNFORGIVABLE.
Too funny.
by GeoMak on Dec 11, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
"He has passion,
he has focus, he has knowledge,
he has leadership, most of all, he has character.
What he needs now is a few horses to run the race."
(who said that?)

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