Putting Alex Smith to Shame

by supraman on Feb 21, 2009 6:21 PM PST

"We didn't learn this under Coach Meyer"

Hey, when will everyone except that Alex Smith is a Bust? He's such a disaster that to prevent there from being any Alex Smiths of the future scouts began to actually keep track of the size of a QBs hand. Throws 11 Ints to 1 TD (which was thrown in a game the Texans tried to lose) fumbled the ball 11 times. But, it was under that laughable offensive coordinator Mike McCarthy, Packers good luck with that bum. Most certainly he'll improve those numbers next year. Which he did under Offensive genius Norv Turner 16 TDs 16 INTs though he had 10 fumbles but whos counting, the emergence of Frank Gore helped out just a tad too. Next OC Jim Hostler personally picked by Nolan. Through 7 games, hampered with a Fractured shoulder, 2 TDs 4INTs 6 fumbles averaging 4.7 yards a pass play. Finally he finds the pride to tell Nolan that he's injuried, well really he told the media and they brought it to Nolan's attention, nolan was unhappy to say the least. Smith from what I heard was picked over Aaron Rodgers because he didn't speak out he just did what you told him. They were supposingely(sp?) told to do eccentric workouts, for example pass the football between their legs so that it made a figure 8. Rodgers asked what am I doing this for? Smith didn't and now we're stuck with him. Last year, Journey man Just TurnOvers defeated him QB battle.

Where's is this potenial some fans see? just because he's 24 doesnt mean he's going to amount to anything.. His hands are still too small until they grow enough to hold a big boy football, he rides the bench! then when his contract expires we release him!!!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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Comments

A discussion I'd like to have...though, perhaps in a more coherent thread.

However:

by shlecko on Feb 21, 2009 6:44 PM PST reply actions

“He’s such a disaster that to prevent there from being any Alex Smiths of the future scouts began to actually keep track of the size of a QBs hand”

Actually, they’ve measured the hand size of QB’s at the combine for years. And Alex Smith’s were exactly average — the myth that they were smaller than normal was started his rookie year when people were looking for a reason why he was fumbling so much, and never proven out by the facts. There are a lot of reasons why Alex has sucked, but hand size isn’t one of them.

Haven't been to The Examined Life? No wonder your life feels so empty.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Feb 21, 2009 7:13 PM PST reply actions

Besides...

wasn’t Daunte Culpepper the prototype “small hands” QB?

by shlecko on Feb 21, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions

Does whoever wrote this article

expect us to believe we drafted Smith because he could do a figure 8 between his legs and not ask why?

by Blank x2 on Feb 22, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions

A Smith

I agree with all of you 100% we bombed with that pick and Aaron Rodgers was the quarterback I preferred at the time however with our poor offensive line he never had a chance to be better than joey harrington when you spend a lot of time on yur back as a young qb it’s extremely hard to gain confidence in your line and offense and you can’t become comfortable.

Get rid of him he’s a bum but I am sold on Freeman from K State being the guy were gonna miss again like jay cutler!!

by rlott#42 on Feb 21, 2009 8:50 PM PST reply actions

John Madden says,

J. Freeman, QB

THP: 95
THA: 71
AWR: 60

OVR: 68

by shlecko on Feb 21, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions

I still think that between Alex Smith and Aaron Rogers, Alex Smith was the correct pick at the time. There’s no telling if Rogers would have fared any better than Smith did under the same circumstances.

The fact that pick shouldn’t have been between those two is a completely different matter.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 21, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions

He also got to sit behind a sure-fire hall of fame qb, and I have to think that helped to some degree.

by J. Frank Parnell on Feb 22, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions

I get that Rogers might not have faired very well either

But I still don’t get how one could assume that Alex Smith was the correct pick. Smith hasn’t done anything really other than ~~suck~~ play rather poorly. If they’re is any kind of conclusion to be drawn, which I really doubt there is, it should be that Alex Smith was no the correct pick at the time. Would it even have been possible for Rogers to have done worse?

Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.

by methodrampage on Feb 23, 2009 7:27 AM PST up reply actions

When I say this, I’m standing clear of hindsight as much as possible. Knowing what we did about the two quarterbacks at the time, I think it was the more prudent pick to select Alex Smith. He had almost all the tools that Rogers did, except that Rogers had better accuracy and had a slightly more advanced game from playing a pro-style system. Smith seemingly had a higher ceiling and a huge amount of intelligence.

But I’m not by any means saying that Smith was the correct pick for the year. Just that if all things were equal and the pick was happening again today without any of the context of the last few years, I would still advocate picking Smith over Rogers. With the context of the last few years, that likely changes considerably.

Now, neither one was an ideal pick, even without hindsight. It was kind of a crap year to be where we were, but even at the time there were other players on the board who would have been regarded by many as much better choices.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 23, 2009 6:48 PM PST up reply actions

It wasn't even right "for the year" - not even close

Rogers had better accuracy and had a slightly more advanced game from playing a pro-style system.

In my opinion, these are the top two things you look for in a quarterback coming out of the draft. Accuracy is something you can’t coach. If a guy doesn’t have it, there’s a good chance that he never really will. In the NFL, there is such a tight margin for error – if you have trouble fitting balls into tight coverage in college, then you’re never going to be able to do it in the NFL.

If you run a pro-style offense in college, like Rogers did at Cal, then there’s going to be a much smaller learning curve when adjusting to an NFL playbook. In 2005, it was pretty obvious that our rookie QB, whoever it was going to be, would get thrown into the fire. Selecting Alex Smith, who very nearly had to re-learn the game of football, was a move that didn’t make any sense to me. People keep saying that Rogers likely would have struggled just like Smith did. Perhaps this would be true in the first year, but I don’t think that Rogers would have taken anywhere near as long to adjust his game to the NFL. Unlike Smith, his mechanics were already there.

I also don’t agree with the argument that Smith had a higher ceiling than Rogers. Smith may be a better athlete, but there was never a point where scouts could comfortably say that he was a better passer. What’s worse, is that Aaron Rogers has turned out to be quite the mobile QB himself.

I’ve always said that the 49ers made the the wrong pick, but the real argument is that they made the pick that they did for the wrong reasons. They needed a QB right away, and they chose a project. They needed a guy to be a leader of a weak team, and they picked a player who was used to dominating a weak conference. They needed a guy with football savvy, and the picked the dude with book smarts.

It was the wrong pick, no matter how you look at it.

by shlecko on Feb 23, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions

whoa..

that was heavy..

by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Feb 23, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions

It was the wrong pick no matter how you look at it. I don’t think the 49ers ever envisioned Alex Smith’s learning curve to be as unbelievably steep as it ended up being. We have a pretty fundamental difference of opinion over where Alex Smith and Aaron Rogers ceilings appeared to be at the time. I remember feeling that Smith’s was higher enough that the difference mattered to me. Time has obviously proven that wrong, as Rogers’ ceiling has turned out to be much, much higher than I ever would have thought.

Accuracy is a big deal, but in my opinion I think you’re overstating it.

I think the point about drafting a project is extremely valuable regardless of our differences, though.

Basically, I think we just disagree on a few things, and that those few things amount to a big difference.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 24, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions

Accuracy is a big deal, but in my opinion I think you’re overstating it.

What, in your opinion, is more important to a quarterback?

by shlecko on Feb 25, 2009 6:14 AM PST up reply actions

I don’t have a lot of time right now and this might get pushed off the page by the time I’m done with work, but if I’m going to take a stance on that I’d say that I don’t really think there is one most important thing to a quarterback.

And that’s kind of an easy way out, so I’ll elaborate a little bit. If you take FO’s word for it, completion percentage – not accuracy – is one of the best predictors of NFL success for college quarterbacks… with a bunch of stipulations coming after. To me, completion percentage means a lot more than accuracy. Obviously, it’s making reads, it’s reacting, it’s getting yourself set, it’s understanding the plays and the defense, and it’s accuracy. But then there are also those stipulations. The quarterbacks being evaluated by this metric have to have a certain number of games started and have to be scouted to go in the first two (I think) rounds to begin with. So even then, for completion percentage, and by extension accuracy, to be a critical scouting point in young quarterbacks, they need to already have met a series of other critical benchmarks.

So yeah, accuracy is great, but I hope you can see where I’m going with this idea that it’s not the end-all-be-all – even though I had to give a shortened, watered-down version due to needing to drive to work in 2 minutes.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 25, 2009 7:19 AM PST up reply actions

Ceiling

If I’m not mistaken, there was at least one other team in the top 5 (or maybe it was 10) that has said (since that year) that they would have taken Smith had the 49ers not taken him first. So apparently (at least) one other team saw more in Smith than they did in Rodgers, as Rodgers slid pretty darn far that year.

by sfgfan on Feb 25, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions

I misunderstood

I get what you’re saying though.

Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.

by methodrampage on Feb 24, 2009 7:20 AM PST up reply actions

schemes and things

Freeman will be a lot better than that in a run based pass attack and essential in adding 30 to 60 yds per gaem running himself.

by rlott#42 on Feb 21, 2009 9:02 PM PST reply actions

by the way slecko

where are you finding that info

by rlott#42 on Feb 21, 2009 9:04 PM PST reply actions

*Shlecko

and what info?

The Madden rating, I made up. Just my casual-fan-friendly way of saying that Freeman isn’t going to be a very good NFL QB.

by shlecko on Feb 21, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions

Madden score?

All those # in your Madden Rating, make him a very good draft pick in Madden for a rookie, a 68 is usually a late first or early second rounder, at least in madden, especially a QB?

I think you ment Thp 95 Tha 50 Awr 42, that is not going to be a good QB in Madden.

My qb’s usually have a mediocre thp around 78, and a bit higher tha around 85+, and Awr 80 or better, it’s abit harder to hit the long throws, you have to be quicker, and push the button hard and right on time, but if your timing is there, the accuracy gets it done everytime..

Thats my only point, I have no idea if Freeman is good or not.

by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Feb 22, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions

i dont think the niners are gonna give on smith just yet because of the fact that he WAS a number 1 pick, and he is pretty young. in defense to smith he has had to work under different coordinators, he hasn’t had stability, of course stability doesn’t have much to do with fumbles but it does have something to do with his INT’s. i think he has the tools to be a good QB, not great, just good, which would be a heck of an improvement from where he’s at now. i say restructure his contract and give him a legit shot this off season, to see how his shoulder is and to see how this new offense suits him.

by sundaysfinest on Feb 21, 2009 9:11 PM PST reply actions

just wanted to say...

that for the last 5 to 6 years every QB, except 1, has had pretty much identical stats to Smith’s when they played under center for the 49ers. JTO, Dilfer, Tim Rattay, and Ken Dorsey all stunk it up. Shaun Hill is the only one who has really succeeded and that is because he is a low risk, short passing QB. Which is not a bad thing but definitely is not the “sexiest” QB when a franchise wants to market their QB. Also one huge thing that has been common in all of these seasons is revolving door at the WR position and overall crappiness of the WR core. If their is no one who can catch the ball, or make a play after the catch, it’s hard for a QB to really do anything. That includes V.D.. This is all coupled with what sundaysfinest wrote.

by StrictlyFootball on Feb 21, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions

Where do you see this potenial coming from?

What tools are you speaking of? He might have a Power drill at home but he sure doesnt have a power arm
Okay he’s young, but so am I does that mean I can be a QB?
OC argument is legit.
but why Give him a shot? After Shaun Hill just proved to us again that he’s the real deal

http://www.runboard.com/bsanfran49ers

by supraman on Feb 21, 2009 11:44 PM PST up reply actions

Give him a shot if it's going to cost us the same as any other back-up QB...

What’s the downside? He turns out to be a legit bust, you’re saying that already, at least now you’ll be vindicated. There is only upside left with Smith (I guess that’s what happens when you hit the basement floor). If he goes into camp and pre-season and looks like a stud and somehow un-seats Hill, than he obviously isn’t as bad as everyone thought. If he doesn’t, than no harm no foul.

But I would for once like to see what he could do when given a legit #1 receiver, a slightly above average O-line, a successful run game, and a scheme that isn’t solely dependent on the passing game. All of those, except a number one WR, the 49ers will most likely have this season. He is a smart kid, who has always been in the tape rooms studying, been in the gym working out, and who has not been one to truly complain about his situation, even though lord knows he had some right to (the time he spoke out against Nolan, I don’t fault him because even his QB coach had said he had talked to Nolan about his injury during the week before the game).

If he sucks, he sucks, but if there is any chance that he may be able to show us the reason why he was picked #1 overall in 2005, at no cost to us, than why not give the kid a shot?

by StrictlyFootball on Feb 22, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions

Downside?
Shaun Hill loses valuable time and 49ers dont make he playoffs
AND Gore gets a year older

He is a smart kid, who has always been in the tape rooms studying, been in the gym working out, and who has not been one to truly complain about his situation

As a fan do I care if it doesn’t show up on the field

http://www.runboard.com/bsanfran49ers

by supraman on Feb 22, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions

Shaun Hill loses valuable time

To be fair, I don’t think Shaun Hill is going to get any better.

Granted, his actual time on an NFL field has been limited, but I don’t know that he’s shown any real promise or potential to improve. Hill’s been in the league for several years, and a this point in his career, he pretty much is what he is: decent, but nothing more.

I think Alex Smith has sucked so far, but you have to admit that he has shown flashes of good things. Call me crazy, but I still think he has far more upside than Hill – even though Shaun seems to currently be the better QB.

by shlecko on Feb 22, 2009 1:51 AM PST up reply actions

????your CRazy

Where do you see this potenial???( no one has answered this question yet)

Shaun Hill who could of thrown for 4000 yards if he started all last season..

Sorry if Hill, has shown no promise to be able to be able to put the ball on the ground and/or but the ball in the hands of the other team

http://www.runboard.com/bsanfran49ers

by supraman on Feb 22, 2009 9:10 AM PST up reply actions

Answer

Quite frankly it comes down to how you view 2007. In 2006, Alex Smith gave us quite a few reasons to be extremely optimistic. Many fans see that as roughly the last time we actually saw a healthy, capable Alex Smith on the field. If you’re willing to excuse the performances of 2007 as 1: the Hostler effect, and 2: a lost season because of a very, very severe shoulder injury, then you can see where 2006 was the last time we saw a true barometer of Alex Smith’s development.

If you’re not willing to excuse 2007 in such a way, your opinion will be understandably different. But it’s perfectly reasonable either way.

Happy?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 22, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions

“Happy?”

I don’t think any person who uses the expression “could of” can ever be truly happy.

Haven't been to The Examined Life? No wonder your life feels so empty.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Feb 22, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions

The person below me is right, I'm not happy!!!!

Can you please tell me what you saw 2006?
That’s all I ask of you
Don’t say he’s young or that he needs to be in a system for more then one year.. tell me what you see on the field in terms of attributes
Weak arm, fumbles touched or untouched, inconsistent accuracy that’s what I see.
From shaun hill I see a guy that
lacks fundamentals, has a weak arm, but he’s accurate, makes smart decisions, very poised on the field

http://www.runboard.com/bsanfran49ers

by supraman on Feb 22, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions

I think that in 2006, Alex Smith showed a drastic imprvement in his composure, in the accuracy of his reads, in his late game management. He has a strong arm, his accuracy is better than people with short memories think (that shoulder really screwed him up).

I’m not saying he was good yet, but he was improving by leaps and bounds at the time and has pretty much never been healthy since. I’m just giving reasons why people might be optimistic, regardless of my own opinion.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 22, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions

That was a fairly fragmented comment. I rushed through it, left for a while, and then came back and posted it without re-reading.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Feb 22, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions

Seems to be?

.. the better QB?

Watch what happens, to Alex Smith poise, when his best friend, Seattle’s D-line, shows up!

Run Forest Run!

by Josh G and the Shaun Hill band wagon on Feb 22, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions

Shlecko

I disagree and only time will tell. I wanted Merriman that year who I thought was a phenominal pass rush, guess you win some and lose some. Smith has not had a great oppurtunity but I don’t think he’s a good NFL qb with all those fumbles. Despite bad blocking your blockers don’t fumble the ball

by rlott#42 on Feb 21, 2009 11:06 PM PST reply actions

http://www.runboard.com/bsanfran49ers

by supraman on Feb 23, 2009 11:54 AM PST reply actions

I can guarantee, 100%, that I will never “except that Alex Smith is a Bust”.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Feb 23, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions