Draft Question
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 16, 2009 7:31 PM PDT
99 comments
FOOCH'S NOTE 7:31PM: This seems like another useful exercise in mock drafting. Glad to see we've got somebody who recognizes the team doesn't need to go QB in the first round.
Hello Niners Fans. StampedeBlue is doing a mock draft, and I've been selected to pick for the Niners. The plan for us right now is to just do the first two rounds, and I'm looking for your thoughts on San Fran's team needs. Having the 10th pick puts you in a good spot in my opinion; you're going to have a chance to get a real difference making player but not have to spend quite the ungodly amount that a top 5 pick gets. I also feel like teams in the top half of the draft pick based on team need more often than not. So, please, let me know what Singletary and his team most needs. I feel like you guys are comfortable enough at QB to not take a risk on Stafford of Sanchez were they there at 10. Am I right, wrong, misguided? Thanks in advance for your responses.
P.S. When I was a kid, the 49ers were the team I most closely followed(not a huge fan) As you can tell my my name though, I am a midwesterner who enjoys UT football, so when Manning became a Colt, things changed. I still hold a place in my heart for those mid 90s Niner teams, and still hate Brett Favre and the Packers because of that rivalry. Anyways, I was really excited to be chosen to pick for the Niners.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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my faves would have to be curry, raji, orakpo, brown, or jenkins in that order.
by sundaysfinest on Mar 16, 2009 7:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel pretty confident...
it is going to be an offensive tackle. I’m not crazy about picking a left tackle in the top 10 but it is a position of need. Otherwise I think it could be a pass rusher like Everett Brown or Orakpo. If none of the top tackles or pass rushers are available, Jenkins could be interesting considering the lack of a play maker at free safety.
Tom will never be as cool as Joe
by wader251 on Mar 16, 2009 7:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"left tackle in the top 10 but it is a position of need."
So it’s your opinion that Staley sucks?
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 17, 2009 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Sorry I meant right tackle. What I meant to say is I don’t like drafting a right tackle in the top ten. As opposed to a left tackle. The point I was trying to make was if a team is going to draft a tackle in the top ten and give him the money a top ten pick gets you should be drafting a left tackle. I think we are set for a long time at left tackle. I just misstyped my comment.
Tom will never be as cool as Joe
by wader251 on Mar 18, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's not Orakpo or Brown look for a tackle
though the jury seems out right now on whether or not Andre Smith would be considered
Maclin may be in the mix but I, personally, am not sold on him
by foosball4949 on Mar 16, 2009 7:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
also Fooch -
no love for my mocks, none of which have a QB at 10?
by foosball4949 on Mar 16, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if crabtree was available at 10
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 16, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
I don’t think they’d grab Crabtree. I think they’ll probably take the most athletic player left among the tackles or olbs. If Raji is available, they’ll grab him (after pulling their jaws off the floor).
by Hella Niners on Mar 16, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree
He’s a pretty darn good technical WR, and he didn’t get by in college just because of his speed. If he develops as people believe he will, he will be infinitely more useful to the current 49ers roster than an offensive tackle (who will most likely start off as a RT) will be.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is what i was thinking
i doubt crabtree will be around at 10 in our draft, but if he were, i believe that would be excellent value for the 49ers
i also see the need to strengthen the tackle and OLB/DE position
you’re first round pick from last year, the guy out of NC…is he going be an impact player at DE this year? i see he only had 7 tackles last season
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Balmer?
I think he’ll definitely get worked into the rotation more this year, especially with the 49ers wanting to move Sopoaga back to the nose all of a sudden. Look for Balmer and Demetric Evans to rotate in and out LE, opposite of Justin Smith.
Remember, in a traditional 3-4, which is what the 49ers pretty much run, the DE’s don’t make a huge statistical impact, as their assignments are more in line with those of a 4-3 DT. Basically, if you’re thinking sacks and pressures, the 49ers look to get that out of any OLBs on the roster.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
that makes sense…i’m not real familiar with the 3-4, so thanks for helping me there
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 17, 2009 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the 49ers...
… take Maclin at #10, McCloughan should be fired.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 17, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Essentially
I see them offering the pick up for a trade first.
If no takers, I think they’ll take the best OL/DL on the board at the time.
MURS for President!!!!!!!
by jtoj on Mar 16, 2009 7:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My 2 cents
I think the Niners look to go OT or pass-rushing LB with the #10 pick. I happen to think that if Crabtree were to slip the Niners would have to take a long look at him. Raji and Jenkins are also interesting options but I think line help or a pass rusher would be preferred.
The second round opens up a few more possibilities. Getting either the tackle or pass rusher that wasn’t picked at 10 is a likely option but I think the team will lean more towards BPA which opens up a few more positions. I could see a WR if someone like Nicks falls to the second round, maybe a FS or a RB to spell Gore. It might be a bit early for a RB but I think the Niners will take one at some point in the draft.
Personally I’m kind of holding an outside hope for Josh Freeman in the 2nd round but it’s starting to look like he will be gone by then. I think the Niners will draft a QB at some point during the draft as well.
by DiegoAsFan on Mar 16, 2009 8:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OT or OLB - of course we draft for need
My Niner Draft Board:
1. Jason Smith
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Andre Smith
4. Aaron Curry
5. Brian Orakpo
6. Aaron Maybin
7. Everette Brown
8. BJ Raji
9. Malcolm Jenkins
The Niners’ failure to get an upgrade at OT in the offseason means they have to get a starter right away to place opposite Joe Staley. That means the Niners pick one of those big 3 if they’re available at 10 – Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe and yes, Andre Smith. Next you go to the OLB pass rusher b/c that’s the second biggest need. I think the order’s Aaron Curry, Brian Orakpo, Aaron Maybin, Everette Brown. In the off-chance one of those 7 guys isn’t available, which is highly unlikely, I’d say my order would be BJ Raji and then Malcolm Jenkins.
by Neon on Mar 16, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
so you think 10 is too early for oher
oher seems like a safer pick than andre smith…i know that if smith lives up to his full potential, he will be better than oher…but smith is “crazy” and no team can miss on a first rounder and expect to have continued success…but i understand that a lot of people think 10 would be to early for oher
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My comments/tweaks to your Niner Draft Board
I like how you set this up and largely agree with the following comments/tweaks:
1. Jason Smith
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Aaron Curry
4. BJ Raji
5. Brian Orakpo
6. Everette Brown
7. Andre Smith
8. Crabtree
9. Malcolm Jenkins
10. Aaron Maybin
I moved Aaron Curry up 1 spot because he’s the best defensive player in the draft and can play OLB. I dropped Andre Smith 4 spots due to character concerns. I moved BJ Raji up 4 spots because of positional rarity. He is the only elite NT prospect in this draft and because quality, motivated NTs are extremely rare. I dropped Aaron Maybin down 4 spots because he’s undersized. It was clear that he bulked up for the combine to show that he is big enough for the NFL, but then wasn’t able to demonstrate the explosive speed that made him so good at Penn State while carrying the extra weight. As such, I think he is more of a developmental project than the other players on the board. His position on our board should reflect that. Finally, I added Michael Crabtree. He’s an elite wide receiver prospect. If he drops, and the OTs, Raji and OLBs are gone, I think we should take him over Jenkins (bit of a reach to take a FS at #10) and the project Maybin.
by kiyoshi on Mar 17, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly different
I’d put Crabtree above Orakpo, Brown, and A.Smith, just simply because he’s a player that’s more likely to make an immediate impact (with Smith a VERY close second). While I like both Brown and Orakpo, I don’t feel quite as strong about them. Also, I would put Maybin outside of the top 10, as I’d even consider Vontae Davis before I consider Maybin.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost completely agree
It does make sense to move Crabtree and Smith up. I can’t make up my mind between Brown and Orakpo (Brown looks better on film, Orakpo has the better numbers). I disagree on dropping Maybin out of the top 10 for Davis. I’m concerned about having both Davis’. Also, Maybin’s pro day went very well, reaffirming what scouts expected to see based on the tape.
1. Jason Smith
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Aaron Curry
4. BJ Raji
5. Crabtree
6. Andre Smith
7. Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown
9. Malcolm Jenkins
10. Aaron Maybin
by kiyoshi on Mar 19, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impact Player or What's the Use?
Pass rush!!! Impact player ready to maul the opposing QB! Or 2009 is going to be a total BUST., as usual. Orakpo. Or Brown. Round 2: William Beatty, OL, Connecticut. Taking an OL in round 1 dooms us to have another season of opposing wide receivers having all day to find an opening somewhere. Especially on 3rd down. Then we’ll blame the DBs. Same ol’, same ol’. We need Singletary to follow his gut and draft a game changer in round 1. Orakpo would be great. Brown maybe. Or trade 10 for Peppers!!!
by Since79 on Mar 16, 2009 9:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i would say
1)crabtree
2)jenkins
2)OT
by benzhou12345 on Mar 16, 2009 9:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would prefer a trade down to gain additional picks........
However we do need pass rush and OL help.
If Orakpo or Brown do not fall to the tenth pick alot say the niners will go OT with a potential bum at RT. 19 reps in the combine and you’re 300 plus I pass. Michael Johnson., Georgia Tech. I think by mid season he’d be more effective than Lawson. And at 6’7" 266 I’d use the high pick for him.
by rlott#42 on Mar 16, 2009 10:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Pass rush help...
… doesn’t necessarily have to come from a pass rusher. I think Haralson did quite well last year, and not so long ago, someone here at NN did some numbers crunching that supported the notion that our pass rushing OLB of the future might already be on the team.
Therefore, I’m all for B.J. Raji. I would even support trading up to get him (not into the top 5 of course, but if he’s still there at 7, and Crabtree is gone, we might be able to get the Raiders’ pick relatively cheap). Putting Raji at nose should immediately solidify our defense againt the inside run, and his presence in the middle should create a ripple effect that would ultimately benefit our outside rushers (namely Haralson).
I don’t see that hoping for continued development from Haralson is a bigger gamble than the one you’d always have to take with any rookie, and Raji seems to be the safest bet to make an immediate impact (because if your big and you can move, you’re already half-way there as a 3-4 nose).
If Raji can’t be had, I’d say we sit at 10 and see what falls to us. If nobody’s there that looks like a steal at 10, we should try and trade down (or make a push for Cutler, if that situation hasn’t been settled by then).
by musketeer54 on Mar 17, 2009 12:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Same goes for the top 2 OTs, of course.
If one of them starts to slip for some reason, we should look at the possibility of moving up as well. Other than that, Im not sure if there’s anybody I would want to use the 10th pick on (like I said, I don’t see the pressing need to draft a pass rushing OLB, although I would make an exception for Curry – but it’s even more unlikely he falls to us).
by musketeer54 on Mar 17, 2009 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raji
I think a lot of people question whether or not he has the discipline and patience to play a 3-4 nose. People kind of see him as the penetrating/slashing type that fits a lot better as a 4-3 DT. Some feel that a big part of why he became so productive is because the guy playing next to him (Ron Brace, I think) is better at occupying blocks.
I agree with you, though. If the 49ers feel he’s a 3-4 NT, I think they HAVE to take him if he’s there, as those kind of players don’t come around all that often.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT a must in the first two Rds.
Don’t think the Niners can afford not to draft a RT in the first 2 rounds. They can’t afford to have a handicap at the position any longer. In the first, I’d go with the best player available among (In no particular order):
1. Orakpo
2. Raji
3. Brown
4. Maybin
5. Oher
6. Smith
Obviously most these guys will be gone and I’m not a scout so I won’t judge who is better.
Looking at the psychology of the team, I think McCoughlin (Sp?) wants to give every opportunity for his picks to succeed this year. That’s why I don’t think the pick will be a QB or safety. Raji is a real possibility if he slips to 10 because Sopoaga and Franklyn weren’t his picks and neither is a dominant player at the position. I wouldn’t reach for a RT in the first but it could happen in the 2nd for a guy like Loadholt (who would seem to match the power running attack offense anyways). Think that would give something for opposing defenses to worry about… Gore running behind Norris, Rachal, Loadholt, and Davis.
I’m wary of Andre Smith as well even though physically he seems to fit perfectly with what they want out of a RT. Singletary has hinted that he thinks he and the team can handle a head case. Depends on how much pull he has over personnel decisions.
Everette Brown tends to fit McCoughlin picks of high character guys. Seems like the only knock on him is a lack of starting experience and he’s not quite the ideal height. Production, skill, and mental toughness don’t sound like a problem so I’d lean towards him if he’s available.
by abasketballfan on Mar 17, 2009 3:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Brown...
… would be the 49ers first choice as a DE/OLB. A close second, or maybe even even, may be Orakpo.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andre Smith is the perfect Singletary guy
He really loves Jesus, so they have that in common.
He plays mean, which will instantly endear him to Singletary.
Singletary likes to mold young men into better men, so he may be intrigued by shaping Smith’s future.
And most importantly the dude’s a complete BEAST. While the workout stuff earlier was stupid, it’s also the only reason he’ll probably be available at #10. The most important thing to consider in drafting a player is the game tape – how good has he been, his record, etc. Smith’s game tape is super impressive. I say we get this guy if he’s there b/c to be the run team we want to be, to protect our QBs and give them time to throw, to have a good enough OT to let Vernon Davis go out on passing routes, we need a great O-Line and Smith is the most realistic way of accomplishing that quickly.
by Neon on Mar 17, 2009 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A.Smith
He may still be gone before #10, despite the issues he’s had. The guy just needs to prove that he screwed up and that he understands that he did. You don’t become such a “beast” by slacking off before. The question is, does he understand he screwed up, and can he convince teams that he does understand?
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the 49ers took smith
would that push staley back to RT. or would smith be the RT…i’m just trying to decide if you guys need a OT or a Rushing OLB/DE type more
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they took Smith.
He would more than definitely be envisioned as a left tackle, at least at some point early on. That isn’t to say the team would definitely move Staley back this season, as they could give Smith a year to “get used to the game” at RT, much like the 49ers did with Staley two years ago.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RT / LT - who cares?
I know the conventional thinking is to not overpay, with a pick or with cash, for a RT b/c it’s not as sexy a position at LT, but I think that’s mostly BS. If you’re truly a running team and the other team knows that, you darn well be able to run to both sides of the line, as well as right up the middle for that matter.
If you have Andre Smith, or another stud OT for that matter, you can couple him with Joe Staley. As far as who plays Right or Left, I think you’d want to put the better run blocker on the right side and the better pass protector on the left side, if they’re not the same player.
Bottom line, I think, is having 2 players capable of being good starting LTs is an awesome “problem” to have.
by Neon on Mar 17, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
I think Smith might actually be a better RT in the NFL as he’s more of a “bruiser”.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 17, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel the exact same way...
… about him, specifically.
I just think that when you’re paying someone LT money, you should maybe at least do your due diligence and see if they can play the position (to get value). I suppose that’s a little too idealistic.
I guess the other thing they could do just sign Staley to an extension to balance out the pay structure.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think..
Joe Staley will be better then Andre Smith in the long run?
I say we keep Smith at LT and switch Staley back to RT.
Keep in mind, Staley by now is use to adjustments
http://www.49ersboard.blogspot.com
by supraman on Mar 17, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LT
Staley is the more athletic out of the two, which is a little better suited for LT. Smith is definitely more of a mauler than Staley, which is better suited at RT. The more I read about Smith, the more I feel like he could be a player much similar to Larry Allen, but he has to show he is willing to work to get there.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dump the Pass Rush....GET SOME SAFETY HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
All of the comments I have read keep clamoring for a pass rusher. Sounds logical, but a pass rush isn’t the problem with the niner’s D. If you haden’t noticed the Niner’s run a
3-4. A defense designed around disguising their blitz packages. The REAL issue lies in the teams inability to STOP THE RUN! I can’t tell you how many times I saw mediocre backs eat up yards b/c the Niner’s D-line couldn’t get to them. That then opened up play action and huge bombs all over our defensive back field. With a good Safety pick, teams wouldn’t be so happy to play action without thinking of where our safety help is. not only that, but a good Safety can also help shore up our running woes ALAH Bob Sanders. This question is a no brainer.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
by DarkkStarr1 on Mar 17, 2009 10:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
so you're thinking malcom jenkins?
i was actually looking at your defensive stats, and what i saw was a team that had trouble against the pass, but did well enough against the run…so i was actually considering some secondary help at first
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jenkins
I think Jenkins is sort of like a “if everyone else is gone” type of pick. Since people seem to feel that it’s unlikely he’ll stick at corner, a FS in the top 10 isn’t really great value. The team would get more value out of drafting a LT that fails to be a LT and has to play RT (i.e. Smith, Oher, etc) than drafting a FS, I think.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh.
The 49ers already have a run-stopping safety. If they’re looking safety, they need someone in more of the ball-hawking sense, not someone who can stop the running back.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need a FS, not a SS
I totally agree. Upgrading at SS would be nice but is not necessary. Everyone would love a Bob Sanders. If we can get a guy like that then do it. But, I personally think that Michael Lewis is a good SS and that is not a position to focus on.
Upgrading at FS, though, is an awesome idea. I think we need to hedge our bets on Dashon “I’m Talented But Constantly Make Bad Decisions” Goldson with another option.
by Neon on Mar 17, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy Williams
I think the 49ers brought Williams in with the thought that he would be competing with Goldson, so he doesn’t feel like he can continue to make the mistakes he’s made and still get to start. Williams wasn’t a world-beating corner, but he could potentially be a decent free safety, which is about all the promise Goldson has shown so far, too.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allright boys and girls
This is what I have taken away from the discussion so far in terms of needs
1. OLB/DE pass rusher
2. OT
3. NT
4. Secondary help
if crabtree or raji are there at 10, then take him, otherwise take the best player available that follows the order of above needs
That sound about right?
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 10:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
That may be the consensus you drew from the comments here, but I think NT technically should be higher than OT. Of course, the only potential NT available in the first 10 picks is Raji.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea that is what i was getting at
raji is probably the only NT who is worth a top 10 pick, which is why i have the other positions higher
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the need at OLB/DE is an illusion. We have young developing guys at that position.
by bignerd on Mar 17, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Developing guys?
The ONLY one ANYONE should give any “potential” credit to in terms of “potential” pass rush threat is Haralson. Lawson, while decent in coverage, has shown ZERO in terms of rushing the QB. Heck, the team even takes him out in passing situations!
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you pick a passrusher in the 1st...
do you really feel you can get a starting RT in the 2nd? Or, will the team somehow acquire one via trade or FA? That’s the only logical assumption unless you really think Adam Snyder / Barry Sims are sufficient at RT (which I DO NOT).
by Neon on Mar 17, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If the team goes...
… OLB in the first, then they’ll have to wait and see what players are available in the second round for them to choose from. Suppose the choice came down to a guy like Ron Brace (who many feel is a better NT option than Raji) and Eben Britton or Phil Loadholt (offensive tackles who like they can play RT), who do you choose?
If Brace is as good at two-gapping as some are saying he is, a potential starting NT has a lot more use to the 49ers right now than a starting RT. Basically, if Brace can become a true NT, the improvement between him and Franklin is a lot greater than the improvement between Snyder/Sims and Britton/Loadholt.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this assessment. NT is one of the hardest positions to fill (almost as tough as QB, if I recall correctly). And it’s not uncommon for teams to find a starting RT on the second day.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 17, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think there is some good value for a RT
in the second round…the guy out of south carolina, his name escapes me right now, could be a solid RT and if he can add some bulk(nfl strength coaches should have no problem there, his body looks like it could add some weight) then he can be a starting RT….there are a few other OT that will probably be availabe in the second round
i see what you are saying though
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DT/RT/OLB/WR
In that order, BPA at those positions. It totally depends on the 49ers draft board, but if I were in that War Room, I would take one of the top four T’s available if Raji is gone. If not, you have to BJ Raji, he solidifies the DL. OLB (Curry, Brown, Maybin, Orakpo) if Raji and the top 4 T’s are all gone. I am not even considering Curry, he won’t be there. Crabtree probably won’t be there either, but even if he were, I don’t see the 49ers going that direction, with Singletary at the helm, I think we go OL/DL or DL/OL in the 1st/2nd. Thats makes ten players (4 T’s, 1 DT, 1 WR & 4 OLB’s) gone in 10 picks with the 49ers taking one of them. I would be happy with anybody they pick, as long as it fills a need with the BPA. FYI, a guy like Britton from AZ can be had in the early 2nd .
by NorCal BillsFan on Mar 17, 2009 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree and Singletary
I don’t think Singletary is the end-all-be-all in the draft, like Nolan was. With McCloughan now the official GM, he is the person Singletary reports to and ultimately, he is the one that gets hung out to dry for failed draft picks. If McCloughan has a shot at Crabtree, who is supposed to be the best WR prospect in the draft and a definite top 10 prospect, period, he has to seriously consider him.
I agree with you on Raji though. If he’s there, he probably takes precedence over anyone else available at #10.
by sfgfan on Mar 17, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, nex question
If the QB Freeman is available when the 49ers turn comes up in the second round, is he worth the pick?
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No
Here’s why. You assume that we pass on a QB at 10. That means the front office feels that this team can contend this year without upgrading at QB. But to contend this year, it’s almost virtually acknowledged that we need to get two or three instant starters (RT, OLB, FS, NT: you pick) in this draft. Freeman is a project and if he starts next season, this team will not go to the play-offs. He’s not as polished as Ryan was last year and this team doesn’t have the supporting cast that the Ravens had last year. Drafting Freeman runs completely counter to the “contend this year” mind-set because you lose a needed starter in favor of a long-term project.
My view, the Niners either draft a QB at 10 or they wait until late on the second day. There’s not a logical justification for drafting a QB in the 2nd. If Freeman were to fall into the 3rd (extremely unlikely), I would probably take him, but not earlier.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 17, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha
kinda what i figured, though i would ask though
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 17, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree.
A project is exactly what the team can afford to take on, because they have a “decent” starter for the next two seasons, which gives a guy like Freeman two years to catch up to the NFL. Physically, Freeman is a good player, so two years of working on understanding the game more and working on the mental aspect of his game is a lot of time.
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that a project isn’t a bad pick. My point was that this team can’t afford to take a project in the second round. It runs counter to the logic of passing on a QB in the 1st.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 18, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd pass...
… on Stafford and Sanchez in the first (as will other teams), but that shouldn’t stop a team from taking Freeman in the second. Stafford and Sanchez, in MANY people’s eyes aren’t worth a top 10 pick, even if they WILL get picked there. Many people believe Freeman is worth a late first round pick, so why not take a shot at him in the second if he IS there. It’s like getting a first round QB in the second round, no?
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see the logic in that. And I do agree that Freeman, relative to expectations (some have him in the top-20) would probably be a bargain at 43. I also don’t think it would be a terrible pick. In fact, it could make McCloughan look brilliant in a couple years.
I’m coming at this more from an opportunity cost angle where if you think this team can contend this year then you likely need to get another immediate starter at the top of the second round.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 19, 2009 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you're saying now...
… about getting a starter from the second round. I think the team can definitely use another starter, but depending on who they pick in the first, it’s possible they can find one in the third. I think the harder position to find a useful talent in would be the pass rusher (OLB, probably). If the 49ers can manage to land a guy like Orakpo or Brown in the first, they can surely find a stopgap RT in the third round (or even in FA or already on the roster). I don’t think RT is as BIG a need as people make it out to be because teams don’t really need an elite tackle to play RT. Ideally, that player just needs to be able to run block.
by sfgfan on Mar 19, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m totally with you on both points. Rush linebacker is a huge need for this team and RT shouldn’t be a hard spot to fill later (rounds 2-5) in the draft. Shouldn’t. Yet it is for this team.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 19, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
And I know more than cornball.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 18, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Getting a QB, any QB, in the second round is a problem for a couple of reasons. 1 – it sends mixed messages to the current crop b/c right now there’s a certain comfort in having a 2-person competition with 2 guys who have been with the team for a while. 2 – the opportunity cost is huge; it means you can’t get your 2nd real need (OT or OLB/FS/NT) at that spot, which is still quite high. 3 – project QBs can be had in the later rounds and it’s better understood that this guy wouldn’t compete for the starting job in the first year
by Neon on Mar 17, 2009 11:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Taking a QB...
… in the second doesn’t necessarily mean the guy is going to get to start. Basically, taking on a project QB, like Freeman, while the 49ers have Hill/Smith starting gives Freeman two years to learn the game without being thrown to the wolves.
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you feel like we're fighting an up hill battle in the mud?
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 18, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But lately the hill only seems to be getting steeper and the mud slicker
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 18, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Do you think that this team has a decent chance of contending this year? Or do you think that this draft is more for building for the future (2+ years away)? I ask because the answers really inform your opinions on the QB issue.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 18, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's contend mean?
Do I think the Niners could contend for a playoff spot and be one and done in the playoffs? Sure if things fall right.
Do I think the Niners could contend for a shot at the Super Bowl? No.
So in short, I still think the team is still closer to the rebuilding stages than it is to hitting stride.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 19, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noted. And by contend, I meant getting into the playoffs.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 19, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not about whether a QB is necessary or not. I agree, a project is a good idea. But drafting Freeman in the second round means that you miss out on the starter you need to compete now, which was the whole point of passing on a QB in the first. If you really feel QB is a big enough need to give away production at another position in the short term, then you might as well use the #10 on that QB (if you think Stafford or Sanchez is a better option than Freeman) because either way you’re really hurting the team’s chances of making the playoffs this year.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 18, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I mentioned above...
… I don’t feel Sanchez and Stafford are worth a top 10 selection (as they probably wouldn’t be in most other drafts). Freeman, however, I feel is well worth a second round pick, and many other people view him as even a first round pick.
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the big scheme of things
I don’t think you can label that 2nd round pick critical to the Niners playoff hopes next year. Even if the Niners would pass on Freeman there’s still a chance they could totally blow that pick. A first round pick isn’t guaranteed to be impact starter so to expect a second round pick to be one is a little wishful.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 19, 2009 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you’re saying and agree with you. No pick is guaranteed to succeed. That’s just logic. But if the mindset of the front-office is to win now – in a weak division in the weaker conference, then do you spend high picks on projects?
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Mar 19, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the 49ers sign Marvel Smith
should they wait till the second to draft an OT…or still take one at 10 if one of the top threes OTs are there? Do you hold off all together?
Just trying to see what you guys are thinking
by VolsnCards5 on Mar 18, 2009 7:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If they sign Smith..
… but they still have a shot at J.Smith or Monroe, they may have to seriously consider taking them. But seeing as those two guys will be LONG gone by #10, then, yes, they’ll probably skip on taking a tackle until at least the second, since they may have a shot at a DE/OLB.
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it comes down to what you think about Andre Smith
I think this guy’s a huge stud and just f*&#ed up for the combine. He was projected, prior to that, to be the #1 OT taken. I say given Marvel Smith’s health problems of the past it would still benefit us to get Smith, the long term starter. It’s not like we couldn’t move one of these guys to guard in the short term or use a rotation to keep guys fresh. I just think that O-Line is critical and we can really improve there. If those 3 OTs are taken, though, I don’t think you reach for Oher or another OT. I thin you go passrushing OLB or NT if Raji is there.
by Neon on Mar 18, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A.Smith
I think A.Smith is a ridiculous talent, and I wouldn’t be upset or anything if the team took him. I, personally, think he’s better suited as a RT, which makes taking him at #10 more of a luxury if you already potentially have a RT on your roster. As I pointed out in other places, you can get a RT at the top of the second, too.
I guess I’m just not a big fan of moving Staley, and I think the 49ers should take advantage of the value Staley offers them (i.e. they are saving loads of money for a LT) to fill a need somewhere else. As I mentioned above, if they draft Smith to play RT, then Staley’s agent has all the leverage he needs to get Staley an extension, and I don’t know if the 49ers are ready to throw more money at Staley, yet, as it diminishes his value to the team further.
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good teams spend money on the O-Line
Just look at what Parcells has done in a year and a half in Miami.
by Neon on Mar 18, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good teams do a lot of things the Niners don't
Like rush the passer, score points or at least stop teams from scoring, limit turn overs, etc. Please don’t act like spending money on the OL is the only thing that the Niners don’t do that good teams do.
In the last two years they’ve spent picks within the first two rounds on OL. They went out and spent money on Jennings and Allen, although they might have been poor signings in hind sight, but it’s not like they’re ignoring the OL.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 18, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DING!
Not only have they used high picks on the offensive lien the last two years, they’ve used a high pick on an offensive linemen or “blocker” in each of their last four drafts (Baas in 2005, Davis in 2006, Staley in 2007, and Rachal in 2008). Definitely aren’t ignoring the guys up front.
by sfgfan on Mar 18, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget the past, we only have 1 OT - it takes 2
David Baas – Guard
Vernon Davis – Tight End
Joe Staley – Tackle
Chilo Rachal – Guard
The fact that we have a LT doesn’t negate the need for a RT. We could get one in free agency, which I’m totally open to, it just hasn’t been done yet. The goal is to have a quality starting OT on each side, and I think we all agree that we only have 1, so what’s the argument against getting one? Trying to get one and getting one aren’t the same thing. Getting a piece of the line doesn’t negate the need for a different piece.
And, I didn’t say or imply that spending money on the O-Line is the ONLY thing good teams do that the Niners don’t. Not even sure where one would get something like that from my posts. Pretty odd, actually.
by Neon on Mar 18, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the point
You can’t neglect the rest of your team just to address the OL.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 18, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We agree...
We do have other needs besides RT, which is totally true.
I’m thinking Pass Rushing OLB, FS, Backup RB, future “Ted” ILB, WR depth, future QB… am I missing anything?
by Neon on Mar 18, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a QB
in the first round lets grab malcom jenkins or andre smith, crbtree if hes available,
and round 2 or later lets grab a QB
i meen look at tom brady and joe montana they were both late drafted QB’s
by Italian King on Mar 18, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You're so right
The Niners should pull their heads out of their bums and draft the next Tom Brady or Joe Montana. Which begs the question, why have they not done this yet?
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 18, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great idea!
Let’s draft a future Hall Of Famer in a late round. This is so clever!
by Neon on Mar 18, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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