Mike Singletary - X's and O's
On December 30th, Matthew Barrows posted an article entitled: 49ers analysis: Late-season success brings hope.
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1505322.html
In that post he had this sentence:
“Singletary has never been a defensive coordinator, and indeed his lack of an X's and O's background created the perception that his success was built entirely on emotion. “
I objected then to that directly to Barrows and this comment recently made it’s way onto Niner Nation yesterday (whereby I objected to it again). Here is a somewhat long and rambling response to that comment.
First, one thing: The phrase “his lack of X’s and O’s background” is somewhat vague. It’s not black and white. One person might define background one way, another, another way. Therefore when some of you “nit pick’ this to death, please understand that that really doesn’t bother me. Really.
This is a two-part comment:
Part 1: Recently, around Black Monday, Skip Bayless on ESPN said something that I have long maintained: “Just because a guy is a hot coordinator, it doesn’t mean that he’ll be a great HC.” I’d been saying that for years. Bayless is the first person I heard say it on air. As he stated, the skill set is different. Just because a guy can design a game plan and coach his own unit, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he can lead an entire team (players and coaches) into battle. To do that successfully takes leadership of the highest order.
Norv Turner & Wade Phillips are the best examples of coordinators not really qualified to be anything more than average as HC‘s. As your own Jerry Rice is on record as saying, in reference to his brief time under Turner in Oakland “He could not motivate his players. He had no control.” Not exactly a ringing endorsement there. Look at recent excellent OC’s like Scott Linehan and Cam Cameron. Crappy HC’s. A great former player and a GREAT DC like Dick LeBeau. Crappy HC. It’s nothing personal. Some men are cut out to lead as HC, most aren’t. I think owners and GMs are finally starting to realize that the number one criteria for being a great HC is Leadership and Motivational Skills. Not necessarily X’s and O’s. Essentially, the X’s and O’s come from the coordinators who are working under the HC’s stated philosophy.
That is perhaps why last year saw four such HC’s who had no experience as an OC or DC at the NFL level (Harbaugh, Sparano, Cable and Singletary). Virtually no one, at this time, will deny that MS is an above average coach when it comes to leadership and motivation. And not every HC has that skill set to the degree that MS has it. Actually few do.
Part 2: This again is the quote from Barrows: “Singletary has never been a defensive coordinator, and indeed his lack of an X's and O's background created the perception that his success was built entirely on emotion.”
The comment that “Singletary has never been a DC” has given rise to this perception regarding his lack of X’s and O’s background. Sfgfan (or someone else) yesterday admitted as much. The “assumption” was that since MS was never a DC, he must be lacking in X and O knowledge. I think the general consensus goes something like this “We agree that MS is a leader and a motivator but because he was never a DC, he must be lacking in the area of X‘s and O‘s” I think that’s ridiculous. Andy Reid was never an OC before becoming HC of the Eagles. I’ve never heard anybody question his X and O knowledge. He runs his offense and while I don’t necessarily agree with his offensive philosophy (too much passing) I’m pretty sure he knows his X’s and O’s.
Mike Ditka was never an OC in the NFL. He was a TE and Special Teams coach (not coordinator) in Dallas before becoming HC in Chicago. He ran the offense of the Bears along with Ed Hughes. Jim McMahon fought with Ditka all the time and often ignored the play sent in by Ditka in favor of his own. When asked, however, McMahon’s on record as saying that Ditka “knew his X’s and O’s.”
Personally, I really don’t see this as Rocket Science. Longtime NFL players (like Ditka and MS) who then serve as assistant coaches for a number of years SHOULD know their X’s and O’s by that point. Really. It’s football, not brain surgery. X’s and O’s are the language of the game.
Regarding MS and X’s and O’s I would basically say this. The two towering geniuses in the NFL in the past quarter century were Bill Walsh on offense and Buddy Ryan on defense. Ryan’s defense was the most complex defense ever seen in the NFL. Buddy had some 13 Fronts and 28 Coverages. Mike Singletary, after his first few years under Buddy, started watching almost as much film as the coaches did. NO PLAYER watched more film than MS during that time. He was essentially an extension of Buddy on the field. Buddy would signal in the AFC’s (Automatic Fronts and Coverages). Mike would then counter with audibles as necessary. He knew his defense and the other teams offense (from an X & O standpoint) like he knew his own name and number.
He was so astute that he often called out the offensive plays BEFORE the ball was snapped. I have Steve DeBerg on DVD talking about how MS was a player coach in that defense. I have Darrin Nelson of the Vikings talking about how discouraging it was to hear MS call out the offensive plays BEFORE the ball was snapped. A player doesn’t have that type of command and ability without a complete and thorough knowledge of X’s and O’s.
One of Singletary’s greatest hits happened in the 85 NFC Championship game against the Rams. MS stood up and stopped Eric Dickerson for no gain on (I believe) a third and one. Singletary later described the hit as “orgasmic.” He also said that he “KNEW” the gap that Dickerson would be running through. He knew! And this is a guy with a lack of X and O knowledge? Honestly, that’s laughable. He didn’t say that he thought he’d run through there. Or that he hoped he’d run through there. No, he knew.
MS went up against the real WCO, and guys like Walsh and Montana and Rice, not the watered down version we see today. Now, football, like everything, evolves over time, but it hasn’t changed that much since the mid 80’s. It’s not like MS played in the era of leather helmets. The field is still 53 1/3 X 120. There are still 11 men per side. Mike Singletary played at a time when the most complex defense went up against the most complex offense. I think MS knows his X’s and O’s. Really. I’m pretty sure that he has a sufficient background in X’s and O’s, despite never being a coordinator. Just like Andy Reid. Just like Mike Ditka. Just like Tony Sparano.
I have used this comparison before. Imagine if Joe Montana followed a course like MS. After retirement, Montana takes some time off to be with his family and then becomes an offensive assistant for 5 years and then becomes HC. I would never say that Montana lacked an X and O background. That’s absurd. His “background” was his years playing QB at the highest possible level. We’re not talking a guard or a RB here. The QB has to know where everyone (both on his offense and the opponents defense) is. Just like MS did as the QB of his defense with the Bears. Does that mean that Montana would have been a successful OC if he ever had that job? No. Not necessarily. But to question his X an O background because he went from player to assistant coach to HC is a little ignorant to me, whomever makes that claim.
Mike Nolan was and is a DC. Greg Manusky is a DC. Nobody is ever going to convince me that those guys know more regarding X’s and O’s than MS. NOBODY. Unless MS himself make that proclamation, I’m not buying it. Or unless a guy like Barrows or anybody else can say “I’m not at liberty to name the player/coach, but this person said to my face (off the record) that MS was weak when it comes to X’s and O’s.”
As to why MS was never a DC, I have no knowledge there. If Matt Barrows or anyone else does I’d be happy to hear it. Personally it never really bothered me as I always figured Mike as HC material and him bypassing the usual coordinator route doesn’t surprise me. I hardly think it’s that he’s not intelligent enough to design and coach a defense. I could be wrong here, but I really doubt it.
In closing I know the usual reply. MS being a player/coach isn’t the same as being a DC. I agree. The fact is, he was hired as a HC, not as a DC. Beyond that, I have to figure that with Singletary’s NFL experience (both as a player and as an assistant coach), his intelligence and his passion for the game, I’m pretty sure that if he was handed the job as DC somewhere, he could do at least as well as guys like Nolan and Manusky. We’ll probably never know, but that’s just an educated guess on my part. I could be wrong, but I really believe he could fill those shoes.
Saying that MS lacks an X and O background cause I guess he wasn’t ever a DC, without someone understanding just how involved in the X’s and O’s he was with the Bears is more than a little shortsighted to me. And, without any “facts” to support that position it’s a little reckless IMO.
Those of you who feel that Singletary’s lack of job experience as a DC constitutes a “lack of X’s and O’s background” are MORE than entitled to your opinion. Also, those that feel his “experience” in basically running Buddy Ryan’s complex scheme as a player in no way gives him the X & O background necessary to be a DC or HC are again MORE than entitled to your opinion.
Personally, and I mean this in the nicest way possible (really, I’m not being sarcastic) . . . I don’t care. Just as most of you don’t care what my opinion is. As long as that’s understood here.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Quick note
I asked him to post this so we could get his thoughts out in the open (whether you agree or disagree).
I agree totally
I heard this subject being dicussed in one of my previous posts. I would have to agree that there’s no way you can say he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy playing MLB for all those years. There were no soft defensive rules back then. Offenses had to be just as complex back then and some of the same offensive pholisopies are still looming from the past.
Excellent Post
speaking of your previous post
Did you delete that previous post (the riddle me this post)? It’s gone and I know I didn’t delete it.
by David Fucillo on Mar 24, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes I did
It seemed this became more of a topic on that post. I’d like to post often and I’ve had some time off work, I Love this Site!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I didn’t want to over do it but I love hearing different opinions. I live in Iowa and around 49er haters cuz they are usually Cheese heads or cubs fans….lol I mean Bears
FanPost
I’d say in the future it’s best to keep the FanPost up. The conversation has been moved here but there may have been people who were expecting a reply there. That’s all.
by David Fucillo on Mar 24, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll still have to respectfully disagree.
I know the discussion about Barrows is that Barrows made what appeared to be a very baseless comment, but he is not the only one to say something related to this topic. I can’t seem to find the post(s) anymore, but I remember reading somewhere that sources (which of course remain nameless as you don’t publicly bash a potential colleague) within the league have pointed to Singletary’s X’s and O’s (as well as his lack of preparedness otherwise) were reasons why he missed out on HC jobs previously.
I’m not saying you have to know X’s and O’s to be a good head coach. I’m not saying Singletary will be a bad coach (as he looks to be a potentially good one, so far).
If he knew his X’s and O’s and could be potentially better than Manusky, why would he go ahead and give Manusky full autonomy in the defense? Remember that Manusky is only entering his third season as a coordinator, so it’s not like he has that much experience, either. Singletary IS a smart guy, and I’m sure he knows where his strengths and weaknesses are. Now I understand that maybe he doesn’t want to overshadow Manusky as Nolan previously did with his coordinators, and that’s completely fine. It’ll definitely be interesting to see if Singletary is ever displeased with Manusky’s defense and decides to take it over himself.
Basically, short of seeing/hearing of him actually calling plays and seeing results, I guess you can’t say he’s BAD at playcalling, and that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I am saying is that it’s not THAT far of a jump to think that an Singletary may be a little weak in that area, and he’s not afraid to admit it by deferring that responsibility to others.
Basically, I disagree to some degree. I don’t want to turn this into some big discussion again, as we’ll just keep circling the same boat. We’ll just have to agree to have two different views. Remember, I agree with you that Barrows (or any of his or Maiocco’s league sources) could be wrong. There just isn’t very much to show that, though.
Good that its a respectful disagreement
It is possible that Sing wants to get his philosophy in first so that everyone around him is on the same page. He is a rookie coach this season in my eyes and its a tough job. I just think he’s backing off the X’s and O’s for now because he has a life. If as a player he focused on X’s and O’s as often as GeoMak posted than he has to have a thourough understanding of X’s and O’s. Maybe X’s and O’s aren’t the problem but the assertiveness at each position. He has been with the 49ers staff for some time and sat back and observed the lackidazicalness of Nolan’s approach and feels the X’s adn O’s are in place.
It’s jsut really hard to believe you could be a hall of fame MLB and not be good at the X’s and O’s
Quick note about MLB
Not that I’m saying Singletary was this kind of player (as I’m not sure he was), but MLB (in a 4-3 or the Mike in a 3-4) seems to be more of a read-react position than following assignments (not to say that they don’t have assignments and have to understand why the assignments are there). You can read tendencies without having to understand a playbook.
Again, not saying Singletary is this, but it’s my observation of what most MLB/MILBs tend to be. Simple example is Patrick Willis. The primary reason why they don’t have him blitzing a lot is because he’s better at read-react. He’s good at just playing football.
geomak you make a lot of good points
but I still don’t think your argument holds a ton of water and here’s why.
I think, from what I know about football, that there’s a big difference between knowing about X’s and O’s because you’ve studied them, and designing the plays yourself. Let me elaborate. Clearly MS (as you like to abbreviate) was very good at reading offenses when he was a player. He knew exactly what was coming and was often able to call the offense’s play before it started. He did that because he studied a ton of film and understood what formations looked like and stuff like that. So he understands X’s and O’s.
I don’t think that necessarily means that he is good at designing X’s and O’s, and calling defensive plays. Maybe he is, but form what I’ve read, it sounds like he lacks experience in that area. That’s what I think the writers mean when they say he is “weak.” By designing I mean drawing up formations, finding ways to mask what type of coverage you’re in, designing blitzes, etc. I, never having played football, barely comprehend most of that stuff (e.g. difference b/w cover 2 and tampa 2, etc). This stuff is very complicated these days, probably more than it was in the 80’s. So when the writers say he is weak at X’s and O’s, I think they mean that he lacks experience designing and implementing a defensive scheme as a coach – they’re not saying that he doesn’t understand formations and how to read them.
If I’m reading you correctly I think you’re saying that because he was so good at doing that stuff as a player that he must be good at doing it as a coach. While that might be true, I don’t think it necessarily is true. And the same could be said for any of the other players you mentioned. Just because Montana understood and ran the WCO better than anyone, doesn’t mean he could run it as a OC.
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Mar 24, 2009 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Geomack still hasn’t proven that Singletary knows how to scheme or coordinate a defense (ie calling his own defensive plays). Sure Singletary grasped and understood his responsibilities in Buddy Ryan’s defense but there’s a huge difference between understanding what your responsibilities are understanding why your responsibilities are what they are and why everybody else’s are what they are. In order to know your X’s and O’s on a coordinator level you also have to understand your opponents tendencies and how to counter them. Who knows if Singletary has this kind of in depth knowledge of coordinating defenses or not, but we do know that Singletary hasn’t shown them so until proven otherwise I’m going to assume that he doesn’t. If all it took to be good at coaching was being good as a player you’d see a whole lot more HOF players as coaches but that’s not the case, you see a lot more non-players and mediocre players as coaches then you do HOF players as coaches.
Lastly, nobody said Singletary was a bad HC. You’re just building a straw man for that argument. Personally, I like Singletary as a HC because he truly is a motivator and a leader. I also subscribe to the ideology that HC, for the most part, should leave the X’s and O’s, or playing calling, to their coordinators. As much as like Singletary as a HC I would be very worried if he took over the defensive play calling duties.
Oh and one more thing, Buddy Ryan couldn’t carry Dick LeBeau’s clip board.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Mar 24, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Reading and reacting
also causes audibles, it also means adjusting on the sideline and looking at current film. I noticed in the Super Bowl vs the Giants that Belichek was making his X’s and O’s adjustment and watched his offense go three and out twice due to his attention to X’s and O’s. I’m saying Sing could be overwhelmed with the Coaching. Plus with his emotions he want to see what the offense and defense are doing at all times.
Maybe Sing isn’t ready to carry that load, not getting jobs does not justify he has a lack of X’s and O’s and because this guy and this guy say it. Let me hear someone on his staff or Mike Nolan. (maybe not trustworthy) Maybe one of his players if asked a direct question which wouldn’t make sing out to be stupid.
$.02
Could it be that as an HC, he’s leaving the jobs of x’s and o’s, plus play calling, to those he hired and/or trusts? What’s wrong with being the CEO and letting your managers take care of the detail stuff?
I’m not a huge fan of HC’s “taking over” the play-calling or scheming of either side of the field. Why do you have Coordinators, then? If things are deteriorating, then it’s obviously time to take over. But to assume the HC should be doing absolutely everything is a bit much. Look at the dual GM/HC’s that never panned out. I have no problem with Sing being on the rear lines, above the battelfield, moving his generals and soldiers to places where they can win each battle.
Let the man be king and allow the warriors to wage the battles.
Not the point.
Again, the point of all this isn’t that Singletary is a weak head coach or that by not calling plays he’s a weaker head coach.
The entire discussion originally was about Singletary supposedly being weak at X’s and O’s. Yes I understand that he can be the CEO (which I said was his, Singletary’s, strength). I even said that in my comment above. I merely pointed out that it would be interesting to see if Singletary could do it (call the plays) if he had to (and hopefully he won’t need to).
Side note: I just assumed you were responding to me, as I’m the only one that mentioned him taking over playcalling. If you weren’t responding to me, I kindly withdraw my comment.
My comments were more general...
and in response to the idea Sing needed to be strong at x’s and o’s to be a strong HC. I have to agree with GeoMak that he doesn’t need to be, or that the “assumption” may be false.
If the only attribute of an HC was being good at x’s and o’s, than there would be a lot more good HC’s (the Norv and Wade argument). The fact is I don’t think you have to be a brilliant play caller/creator to be a great HC. Leave that to the OC/DC and be a leader of men, a big-thinker, etc.
Very true.
A HC doesn’t need to know X’s and O’s. As I pointed out, though, that was never an argument (though GeoMak seemed to keep throwing it into the discussion as if it were.
Can we stop saying
things like “still hasn’t proven”
No member here is certain of anything, until the 2009 season, when our theories are tested. Right now, all we can do is make a strong cases for our theories. As GeoMak said somewhere else before, some members just constantly nit-pick. The nation would be better without it.
http://www.49ersboard.blogspot.com
MS is 5-4
MS has a 5-4 record he has won 4 out of his last 5 and we really dont have a conclusive answer if he is good with x’s and o’s, people will only have opinions. The only way we will find out is his performance record wise. Now if he does poorly next season the people that say MS has limited knowledge as a HC and his x’s and o’s have contributed to that will have the last laugh so to speak. Now if singletary makes the niners into a solid team that has his hard-nosed tough image and they start winning then the people cant say much but HE IS A GREAT MOTIVATOR AND has x’s and o’s knowledge that is it period!
No one is arguing...
… Singletary is a bad head coach. No one is even arguing that his lack of X’s and O’s experience will make him a bad coach.
me personally
thats what i think will end ANY disscusion ANY talk of x’s and o’s. Record speaks for itself
by 49ersAllTheWay on Mar 24, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
another thought
this whole thing is kinda funny to me because I think this all started with someone saying that one reason Sing might not have been hired as a head coach a few years ago was partially because he wasn’t great at X’s and O’s. But now he has been hired as a head coach and most of us are behind him and think he’s a good coach. So the whole thing is kind of moot. Hopefully it won’t matter how good he is at X’s and O’s because hopefully the coordinators are good and will do their jobs well and we’ll all live happily every after.
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
I just think that I’m being biased, but I just don’t see how someone who works so hard, has the determination and motivation to turn this team around, can fail, Usually when someone works really hard at accomplishing a goal, they complete it. But we’ll see….
So...
… you think Mike Nolan wasn’t trying hard when he failed? Or you think Bill Belichick wasn’t trying hard when he failed in Cleveland?
You can try hard, but when you’re off the mark, you’re just off the mark.
Of course every HC tries hard, that’s why they’re the HC. But I’m pretty sure that most training camps won’t even compare to the intensity of the niners camp, thanks to coach Singletary. Even the Lions who definitely need to kick it up a notch won’t match that intensity, but I’m pretty sure that we can match the intensity like the Steelers, Pats, or Ravens. I just think that tough great practices show on the field, and I really believe that NOT all the NFL teams have it.
by sundaysfinest on Mar 24, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Singletary over Nolan
In one season Win/loss records speaks for itself. That in its in self doesn’t mean he a winning coach, but it’s a good start. He’ll mold the team to his personality or he’s gone. X’s and O’s are only chockboard talk. I’m concern about execution. that’s what make the play work!

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