What if we... Episode 01: The Phantom Pick
by Patrick J Smiles on Mar 30, 2009 6:06 PM PDT
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PrintGreetings and good tidings to all,
Patrick J. Smiles in the house, with my first post in a series I'd like to call "What if We..." Basically, this is where I want to voice some quick thoughts I have for the team. Some are going to be relatively feasable. Others will be a bit more far-fetched.
In any case, the point of these posts will to be to ignite discussions. If you must, you are more than welcome to rag on how terrible my suggestions are. I won't take it personal. So without further ado...
What if we...
1) Trade down into the late teens of the first round. We then select Ray Maualuga. We give him a shot to compete for the Outside Linebacker. (I'm aware he is a Middle Linebacker. Thanks :) If he doesn't pan out there, we will have a solid replacement for Spikes when he decides to depart.
Pros: He's a playmaker. He's a big hitter. There is no need to rush him on the field. We can let him compete and if he's not ready, we can let him develop behind our already solid Linebacker corp.
Cons: It's obviously not his natural position. His skillset may not lend itself to the transition.
Deuce) Snag Malcom Jenkins with the 10th overall. We are thin in the secondary and i'm all for stocking up on some potential-riddled young talent and letting them duke it out in training camp. Said talent includes Goldson (unproven and injury prone? but i like him), Brown (very unproven by shows a lot of promise), Spencer (I don't really see the potential in this cat that everyone else sees, maybe it's just me).
Alright, so that's it for now. Let the banter begin.
1X
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I don’t agree with drafting a guy in the 1st rd this year and having him sit until Spikes moves on. If the niners are gonna use their 1st pick on someone who isn’t gonna play much this year, then it might as well be Sanchez and not Maualuga.
Fair enough...
But i was really wondering what your thoughts were about trying to convert him to a pass rushing OLB, first and foremost. The “sitting behind Spikes” senerio would be a fail safe in the case he is bombs as a pass rusher.
by Patrick J Smiles on Mar 30, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Not a fan of converting him to a pass-rusher. He’s a sideline to sideline athlete – just watch his film – and an in the box masher. Let him play to his strengths, which is actually the biggest argument against not drafting him. He’d fist best at Mike and his talent would be under-utilized anywhere else.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Jenkins
Most draftniks aren’t convinced that he’s a top cover corner, so he’ll be available in the teens. I’d definitely be down with trading down to 17 or so if he, Maybin, Oher, Maclin, Harvin, Moreno, Vontae Davis and Chris Wells were all still on the board.
Throwback unis? Yes. Throwback afros? YES!
I'm with this.
I may even be okay with Jenkins at #10 (as he supposedly fits at FS). I’d much rather have him at #10 than trade down to take Maualuga.
I’m with you, though. If the team can trade down and still get Maybin, Jenkins, Oher (I’m open to an RT in the second half of the first round), or Davis, I’m for it. I’m iffy on Wells, Moreno, and Harvin. They’re, for now, still in my DO NOT WANT list.
Harvin
What’s your reason for Harvin being on your DO NOT WANT list? Is it that you don’t think a WR or any another offensive skill position (you don’t list any QB’s either) is enough of a need to draft in the 1st round? Or is it something about Harvin specifically?
I know he’s a bit of a diva, and I know that he has had some injury issues. And I know that he may not yet have a pro position. But both Kiper and McShay think Harvin is the biggest big-play threat in this draft. Mayock and Mike Lombardi also rave about him in this video:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f5578a
What we also know about him is that he’s incredibly versatile. He’s willing to return kicks, he can catch screen passes and take them for long gains. Heck, he could turn into the scatback we don’t have. We also know that he’s got other-worldly quickness and if you check out the video, his cuts are sharp and there is no wasted movement in his routes. That is a small sample size, and I’m not enough of a college football fan to know if that’s what his in-game performance is like, so my enthusiasm is tempered a little bit: I’m not saying we should take him at #10.
Worst case, he’s a guy you use like Reggie Bush, best case, he turns into Steve Smith. For what it’s worth he’s also built like Steve Smith—not super tall, but not short, and thick where it counts. I was happy the team didn’t draft DeSean Jackson, and still am. But I think I’d be disappointed if he were on the board for us at #17 and we didn’t draft him.
Throwback unis? Yes. Throwback afros? YES!
Also
Maualuga is not even on my 1st round draft board—unless we’re below #25. Why not look at Jasper Brinkley if we’re looking for a TED plugger, particularly if we have Spikes for this year and next?
Throwback unis? Yes. Throwback afros? YES!
Harvin.
hmph… I haven’t really given Harvin much thought. At #10, he does seem like a reach. But if we do trade down to the #17 spot, and he is there, I think he’s worth a look. Imagine the match-up nightmare of having Rossum and Harvin returning kickoffs. Wait… let me read what I just wrote… I just got the chills. He could be a change of pace back behind Gore and whoever we take to help share his load. A tired, worn down Defense might have a tough time dealing with an end around or screen, or draw play to Harvin. He could be our wildcard playmaker.
Alright, it’s official. I’m on the Percy Harvin band wagon. :)
by Patrick J Smiles on Mar 31, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Has Harvin...
… even returned any kickoffs or punts in college? I’ve never seen him play, so I don’t know for sure, but I’ve seen a report or two that have flat out stated he never returned a kick or punt.
Doesn't mean that you can't return in the NFL
Adrian Peterson had a brief stint returning for the Vikings his rookie season.
Re: Harvin.
No
http://www.49ersboard.blogspot.com
That's true...
… but just because you have ridiculous running ability, it doesn’t mean you can just be plugged in there, either.
I just don’t understand why a team would allow such a huge investment to play one of the most dangerous roles on the field that, arguably, has very little impact on the rest of the game 75 to 80 percent of the time.
I don't like Maualuga for the 49ers...
… either. I’ve said repeatedly that he just doesn’t fit on the roster anywhere but the TED, but you don’t take a TED with a first rounder.
Harvin
I guess part of it is just a fear of exactly what you pointed out: he doesn’t really have a set pro position. He supposedly doesn’t run great routes in most of what I’ve read. He doesn’t block well. As you point out, he’s built well, but reports I’ve read point out that he doesn’t quite use his well-built-ness very well and very physical.
Basically, reports make me feel like he is like Ted Ginn. Someone with ridiculous speed and other running abilities, but doesn’t seem to fit well as a WR (in my eyes). Yes, it’s possible Harvin will produce and become the next Steve Smith, but how likely is that?
I just feel that with a first round pick, you shouldn’t take a WR who some feel may not be a WR. I think the team can definitely upgrade at WR, I just don’t feel like anyone other than Crabtree qualifies as a possible upgrade in the first round. I’m definitely open to the team taking players that are Harvin or Maclin-esque in the second or third round and beyond, though.
Harvin
I’ll have to get back to you after watching a few games of his before really answering your question about his WR skill set—but even then it might be a tough evaluation because of the way he was used in, wait for it…Urban Meyer’s offense.
One of the reasons I’m particularly intrigued by him is because of Shaun Hill’s lack of arm strength. Most people here are convinced that Hill will be the starting QB at the start of the season. The way Harvin was used was primarily on screen passes or as a running back. Aren’t those the kinds of throws that Hill can make? Quick hitters, etc. What you’ll notice about Norv Turner’s offense for the seasons prior to this last one is that relatively few of the passes went to the wideouts; most of the throws are between the hashes. And that’s where Harvin is really dangerous.
As for the questions about his toughness/strength, the more I watch him, the more I see him slipping through or breaking tackles — or flat-out juking people to the point where they can’t get a hand on him, let alone take him down. He also runs with great body lean and with a low center of gravity. No, he’s not going to Brandon Jacobs his way through a well-positioned Linebacker, but he’ll knock into the average Safety with enough force to drag a tackler for the 1st down.
When it comes down to it, I can see why you’d rather have Crabtree, and I’d take him at #10, too. But if he were off the board, and Harvin was still there when a trade proposal came in, I know where I would focus my attention.
Throwback unis? Yes. Throwback afros? YES!
That's what I'm talking about...
… I like that answer. I am so down for that startegy.
get some grantmp.
by Patrick J Smiles on Mar 30, 2009 7:51 PM PDT reply actions
Get some
reply button
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Mar 30, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading Down
I’m not a big fan of trading down this draft. The only reason I think we should trade down is if all the top pass rushers and OTs are gone (Orakpo, Raji, Smith, Oher, Monroe etc) and Stafford and Sanchez are still on the board. If any pass rushers or OTs are on the board I say take them.
you'll notice
Only Maybin is on my list. If we could get him with #17, then great, but he doesn’t seem like the kind of prospect one should expect much out of in year 1. And there are pass rushers that we could pick up in round 2 that could potentially fit that need and step in earlier.
I’m not convinced that OT is as pressing a need: Loadholdt is the run-blocking mauler we need in the 2nd. Of course Raji, Orakpo, or Brown would be great picks at #10, but if they’re off the board…
Throwback unis? Yes. Throwback afros? YES!
Are you aware that Maualuga's an inside backer? come on man!
kidding…
I’d actually kinda like to see that happen but I highly doubt he falls past Nolan and the Broncos at 12. I’m still not sold on Jenkins.
No to Jenkins, No to Smith, and since we signed MSmith
No to Oher in the first, unless you draft him for LT and sign him before he knows.
I mean come on does anyone see that our WR’s and DB’s are one of our 3 most pressing needs. The DB’s are superthin and our wideouts command no respect form opposing defenses, Maclin is the pick at #10 but Al Davis will take him first!!
I don't see why people...
…. say the DBs are thin. I think the 49ers are fine at corner (as they need to play Brown and Hudson at some point). They really just need help at FS, but it’s all depth, really, as they want to try Goldson there.
As it stands:
CB: Clements, Harris, Spencer, Brown, Hudson, middle-late round rookie
FS: Goldson, Smith
SS: Lewis, Williams
I guess you can call that thin if you’re looking for starters that play backup, but what is the likelihood of that?
Also, I don’t think people are overlooking WR. Many people just don’t like any of the WRs slated to go in the top half of the first round except Crabtree.
thin in skill, not bodies
The Niners secondary has been abused for years and I can’t remember the last time Shawntae Spencer contributed anything to this team. In addition, Goldson isn’t a legit starting FS in this league in my opinion. If the Niners can trade down and grab a physical run-supporting CB like Malcolm Jenkins, Sean Smith, or Vontae Davis then that helps the team nearly as much as drafting a DE early. If they don’t pan out at CB for the long-term, any of those guys are legit options at FS due to their size and range.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 1, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
secondary abused
They have been, but it has alot to do with having to cover receivers all over the field while opposing QBs have all day to wait for them to get open. The lack of a pass rush has lead to the secondary being abused. The best DBs can’t cover someone forever. Harass and hurry the QB and see how much better the secondary looks.
Can't disagree with that
I’m not disagreeing with that, but even with a pass rush you need CB’s who can stay physical with WR’s and stay within arm’s distance to jump routes when the QB is pressured. The more physical we get at the line, the longer it takes for pass plays to develop. There is more than one way to get sacks.
Aside from Clements, I’m not seeing that level of DB play from anyone in the secondary. The play from our safeties has been pretty awful in pass coverage and our Cover 2 schemes have been among the softest in the NFC from 5-15 yards due to WR’s getting all day to settle.
If we’re looking at a physical DB like Jenkins or Smith, then I’m more confident in the pass coverage regardless of the pass rush.
Putting all of our stock in a rookie DE/OLB to create a pass rush is a mistake IMO. I don’t see any Julius Peppers or Mario Williams among this year’s candidates at pick 10. The worst case scenario for drafting a top CB is that we have a great nickel back or more competition at FS with Goldson.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 2, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
100 catches with great in game speed
Maclin in a nut shell. We have Clements and ???? This may be Harris’s year to be Mc Calister-like. Maclin will stretch the field and at least give you a Steve Smith like threat downfield. It’s neccessity for qb’s ask Tom Brady. Unless your running game is stout as well as your defense. Let’s take a wideout in the first and another when Barden comes up at 3. i just think they can be Special players and we are thin at wideout and injuries happen.
Riiiight.
Lets compare Brady’s arm to Hill’s, which is basically what you’re doing. What’s the point in having a WR who can “stretch the field” when Hill can’t make the throw?
The 49ers stand to get royally screwed with the #10 pick if they end up with the worst case scenario (i.e. Crabtree, Orakpo, Brown, and Raji are all off the board). I just dont’ think any of the other WRs are worth the pick at #10, as they just flat out remind me of Ted Ginn from a few years back.
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