Upon Further Review - Michael Crabtree Not an Elite Prospect

and I am convinced…..

I’m not sure I agree with everything here, but you definately raise good points for those people who are praying the NINERZZ BRAZZ gets Crabtree at any cost.

The playbook portion in particular peaked my interest, as well as the statement,

More than likely, I expect to hear complaints that Crabtree doesn’t find the NFL brand of football fun anymore.

He could be similar to Vince Young, in the fact that he finds the NFL life much more overwhelming than what he experienced at the college level.

Personally, the talent, breakaway speed and god-given hands still makes me want Crabtree, but I think after this I’m not going to be too upset if/when he gets picked before #10.

Go research Wes Welker.

Crabtree made the mistake of running the route 6 yards short of the end zone and the safety let him off the hook.

You clearly know nothing about how Tech’s offense works, nor the situation at hand when that play was run. With eight seconds and one timeout left, all the offense needed was field goal position, and that was effectively an out-route.

6-1 height, 4.5 sec 40 yard dash isn’t special in the NFL and his fundamentals and work ethic are not his strengths.

Tell Steve Largent and, more recently, Wes Welker about the importance of size and speed. Jerry Rice was 6’2", effectively the same as Crabtree. And maybe you’ve got inside information that nobody else in the world has, but I think you’re just being an idiot by saying his fundamentals and work ethic are not strengths. Crabtree has been a receiver for a whole three years, and in that time he became the best at his level. The fact that he played most of the 2008 season with a stress fracture in his foot (including The Catch), and still wanted to run the 40 at his pro-day, just shows how little you know what you’re writing about.

About the only way this entry could be more off-base is if you said the 49ers would ever win another Super Bowl.

Its constructive to shed some criticism on the top rated WR in this year’s draft, but it would be absurd not to take him at 10 if he drops.

So he doesn’t have a blazing 40 time, did Jerry? Not to say Crab is going to come remotely close to Jerry, but keep in mind, work out numbers don’t often prove everything.

As Reggie Bush found out, open field running in the NFL can be a rare commodity.

As Reggie Bush found out, he is a running back, not a wide receiver. Sometimes, and get this, sometimes WRs catch the ball in the open field. Really? They do? If you’ve followed Tech as closely as I have over the past 10 years, you would know, that no Tech receiver has come close to doing what Crab has done in two seasons. The system is stat friendly, but Crab put up video game numbers. He has YAC ability, can make the catch in the clutch, and can make people miss.

the play was more of a mistake by the Texas safety than a great play by Crabtree.

I don’t know if you watched that game, and I assume you didn’t based on that comment. The Red Raiders were down by 1, nearing FG range. All they need was a FG to seal the deal. Crab caught the ball on a designed route at the 6 – it was probably Harrell best throw all year – and would’ve stepped out of bounds, but both defenders whiffed. While it was lucky to get the TD, and that yes, the defenders screwed up, doesn’t mean Crab’s abilities should be questioned.

Crabtree has never had attitude issues, work ethic issues, or any character issues what so ever. To assume he will in the NFL is based on nothing, and purely Florio-esque speculation.

Having said all of this, if Crab is a bust, you definitely will get props, but you aren’t the first to say it either. And thanks for pissing me off so damn early. lol

His desire is his greatest asset!!! I have never met anyone else like michael, with the love and desire for the game of football!

Jerry Rice didn’t have tremendous size or speed. Put your tape measure and stop watch down, watch some football and maybe you’ll learn something, but probably not.

besides looking up a persons measurables. You tell us that “we’re just left checking the tape” but you provide no links to this alleged tape. I watched every televised game Michael Crabtree played in College, and my conclusions are all the exact opposite of yours. A few examples:

Not only could I not find evidence of superior on field leaping ability but saw he often failed to attack the ball at the highest point.

I watched the tape. After reviewing the tape I found evidence of superior on field leaping ability and saw how often he attacked the ball at its highest point.

Than again, top slot receivers are precise route runners. Crabtree needs a lot work in that area.

Michael Crabtree is one of the best route runners in College Football, which tells me he will be a great route runner in Professional Football. He finds space incredibly well.

Crabtree made the mistake of running the route 6 yards short of the end zone and the safety let him off the hook.

The play is called Six (for how many points it scorse), with four verticals. Per Graham Harrell: “throwing it behind [the receiver]… we practice that 10 times a day. There’s no telling how many times we’ve run that play throwing it behind on Crab’s back shoulder. He has such great body control he’s one of the best in the country at making that catch.”

The “mistake” is that Michael Crabtree ran a route, looked back to his quarterback who had already made the decision (one they had practiced) to throw the ball to his back shoulder, because that’s what you do when the cornerback isn’t looking. If Crabtree takes the route to the endzone 1) Texas Tech has to kick an uncertain FG to win the game 2) he’s run the wrong route. At Texas Tech you are expected to adjust your routes.

At every level of football, it helps when a receiver can adjust to a ball in the air.

Also to use those hands Crabtree will need to become a better, more deceptive route runner and display the ability to body the defender from the ball at the point of attack.

It sounds to me like you’re just falling into the trap of using a bunch of buzz words to make it seem like you’ve got information you don’t have. Whatever it is you mean by “deceptive route runner” it’s probably the case that Michael Crabtree has it. He reads defenses as well as any wide receiver in CFB (it might help that he’s a former quarterback) and has the ability, required of all Tech receivers, to adjust his route to the coverage. In goal line situations he was extremely good, even in our conference schedule, at using his body to keep the defender away from the ball. I can think of a pair of catches against Oklahoma State where he kept the cornerback off the ball with his body. We can talk about The Catch, where he’s demonstrating excellent body control, getting his hands on a contested ball by keeping the cornerback away with his body.

I also question whether he is a workaholic, which is needed to survive in the NFL.

It sounds like your basis for this is the size of Mike Leach’s playbook, but whether someone is a workaholic and whether they have a large playbook are two very, very different things. His High School coach called him a workaholic. After his record breaking freshman season, he spent most of the following summer working out with Graham Harrell on his own time. Quote:

Crabtree said he and Harrell spent their afternoons running 10-yard routes up and down the field at Jones AT&T Stadium, stopping near the end zone for three consecutive plays from the goal line. Down and back, down and back they went – without any water.

That same summer he went to Deion Sanders’ WR camp at SMU and word was he already has beaten high caliber NFL defenders.

Every high school football team in the country has a more elaborate play book. I have to believe such a minuscule playbook makes college life easy and the game more fun. Now project Crabtree’s having to hunker down and memorize a 300 play NFL playbook with route trees based on secondary reads before he even enters training camp. He has the smarts but does he have the will or experience to break down and absorb that kind of playbook?

Well in that case, he already mastered a larger playbook than he did at Texas Tech, since he was the quarterback at Dallas-Carter before becoming a Red Raider. Combined with his intense work ethic, I have little doubt that Michael Crabtree’s knowledge of football, that has been greatly bolstered by spending seasons with Mike Leach, will be enough for him to overcome the apparently daunting hurdle that has been leapt by many very talented, but not necessarily intelligent, NFL wide receivers before him. Texas Tech’s alleged dumbed down playbook is the smartest in CFB. And Michael Crabtree mastered it.

The best players are known for their work ethic far above their athleticism . . . except you Randy Moss. Does Crabtree have the will to put in those extra, grueling hours to make him great? Minus exceptional height and speed, Crabtree is going to need to out work his counterparts to meet expectations.

Well the evidence is overwhelmingly: Yes! that’s what makes Crabtree so lovable. As you pointed out, he isn’t the tallest or the fastest person in any room. But there’s a better than not chance he’s the one who gives a shit the most, who shows up to practice the most, who flat out tries harder than anyone else. He did that all last year despite being injured virtually every game. He didn’t go from being a HS quarterback to being one of the most prolific WRs in CFB history because he was lazy or lacked a willingness to work hard.

More than likely, I expect to hear complaints that Crabtree doesn’t find the NFL brand of football fun anymore. The extra hours of practice and study just to find mild success will probably wear on his expectations where he’s always found that the game came easy. It cannot be emphasized enough; the greats are married to their job. Is Crabtree married to the grueling task of being an NFL football player or has the gotten by with athletic talent? Jeremy Maclin is told to be a great worker, is Crabtree of that mold?

What’s up with these questions? Have you done any research on the subject you’re discussing? Are these supposed to be rhetorically suggestive or are you genuinely uncertain of the answer? If the former, what is your basis? Does the tape you’ve apparently poured over (HAH!) tell you that he lacks work ethic? If you are genuinely uncertain, why are you waiting until the end of the post to evidence to the world your total lack of knowledge on Michael Crabtree? You don’t have to follow Texas Tech football to know that Michael Crabtree is a hard worker; all you need is Google.

I am disappointed in this post.

While this certainly a detailed report, I disagree with your conclusions. I am curious what you have to say in response to Skin Patrol and/or youALREADYknow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPz7caPqoJE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7tW79njg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aJZsjImymc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm9gAYutAwg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esaP9SO5100&feature=related

etc…

Nice work on the article… but the bottom line is that we need a go to WR! Crabtree is a proven athlete, leader, and a darn good football player. He is like Fitzgerald in a way because he understands the game and the defense. I think he’s got talent that far outweighs anyone we have in our roster… including Morgan, Bruce, or Jones. If he falls on our lap I say take him. I’ll tell you what can we expect a guy like Jones to be our next Jerry Rice or even John Taylor??? Give the fans some excitment and the offense a boost! For God-sake don’t draft another Balmer in the first round! Give this offense a facelift and lets get CRABTREE!

To say that Crabtree is not a prospect by comparing him to these two, to me, is plain stupid. They are both complete freaks of nature. If you had to be as big and fast as Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson to be in the NFL, we might never see another WR drafted ever again.

It’s unfair to compare any prospect to the best players in the league at their position.

Michael Crabtree will be a successful pick, going #7-#10, if he’s an above-average NFL starter. Hey, it’s great to get a superstar, but it’s really hard to tell who’s going to be a superstar by looking at what they did in college. There’s always a lot of guesswork involved.

If I really was convinced that Crabtree was the second coming of Randy Moss, I might be more excited about drafting him, but I always try to be more realistic about my assessment of players who haven’t shown they can make the adjustment to the bigs just yet.

So to me, the question with a draft pick in this range is “which starter, replaced by an above-average player at his position, will result in the biggest improvement in the team?” For the Niners, I think WR is pretty low on that list.

In your imaginary kingdom where you are king, and the the only inhabitant of siad world, your agruement might be valid. But on earth, in the year 2009 your post reminds me of reading the report of a first grader writing about nuclear engineering, completely ridiculous and non factual. Granted you did get his height right so i’ll give you props there. I dont know if you have ever played WR or football for that matter, but as a WR you need to find holes in a defense even if that means changing your route. A QB can be as acurrate as humanly possible, but if a WR cant find space your QB is worthless. Crabtree is the best college player i have ever seen at doing just that. As others have said before me, it doesn’t matter if a WR has blazing speed, superior height or size. We’ve heard the successes of undersized WR’s and slower WR’s, but the failures of those with the attributes you speak of outweigh the successes. For every Calvin Johnson there is a Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, Dante Stallworth, David Terrell. TO does not have blazing speed and drops 25% of the balls that hit his hands but he is considered one of the all time greats. So I suggest you have some football knowledge before you try and criticize a prospect, Mel has been doing this for years, how about you?
P.S. I hope you aren’t from Sacramento cause this meaningless gibrish you are spouting gives the 916 a bad name.

I found this interesting. I go down the the comments and it is a warzone. But I can say is that Crabtree probably won’t make it down to 10. All bignerd did was state his analyze of crabtree. However you shouldn’t be mad because stated his point and had some evidence. Whether you agree with the evidence or not should be debated not angrily breaking down his point and essentially calling him a fool. And if Crabtree does become the next Jerry Rice than he will be wrong. But if you are wrong and he becomes a huge bust, I don’t think you guys will feel that great about yourselfs

I will try to say this as respectfully as I can, but you are a complete and utter dumbass. I think you just wrote this post to get people to comment on it. I would be shocked if anyone had this many negatives to say about Crabtree and truly believed them, and you also have pulled a lot of what you said in this post out of your ass. You say Crab isn’t a hard worker…what in God’s green earth would make you say that? You don’t know the guy, and you obviously don’t read about him because you would know he is one of the hardest workers to ever play for Tech. At least you seem to be achieving your goal, a lot of people are commenting on here.

I love how suddenly you are an insider VIP to Tech football and you just happen to know that Crabtree ran the wrong route against Texas. That statement right there makes you lose any credibility. That throw and catch was practiced and executed perfectly, and Tech practices that play daily.

This is part in response to the “warzone” comment, as well as some of the other stuff.

Aside from a couple comments, I actually think this has been “relatively” civilized given the topic. For the NN readers not aware, the folks at Double T Nation (our Texas Tech blog) posted a link to this, which has brought some of the Red Raider fans out of the woodwork here.

While some people have been rough on bignerd, most folks have backed their comments up with solid evidence and support. When you make a FanPost like this, you also have to expect serious rebuttal. I disagree with most of what bignerd said about Crabtree and it’s just time to take his medicine (unless he can provide sound counter-arguments). However, as sfgfan said, calling him a dumbass does not add value to the argument. Otherwise, I think things could have gone a lot worse in here.

1st Measurements:

Consensus Top 10 drafted NFL WR have great size or great speed and sometimes both. Crabtree has neither. He is not a physical specimen of Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald but most fans are under the impression that he is. It’s fair to compare him to these receivers because that’s the current expectation. To be that type of receiver he needs to out leap defenders for contested balls and be able to hit the home run pass. If he is not great, than the bust word is going to get thrown at him.

He is still a 1st round selection. Based on his measurements he would grade out around the 15th-25th overall pick. He’s a tweener with enough physical gifts to be a Pro Bowl player but he’s going to have to be a workaholic because he can’t physically overpower the defense with size or speed alone. If he marries himself to the game he will be Laveranues Coles, Hines Ward or maybe even reach a Cris Carter type player. Without the great work ethic, he would be a average NFL WR.

Comparison to other receivers:

Wes Welker – wasn’t viewed as a top overall pick and the team that drafts Crabtree isn’t expecting him to play in the slot for such a high pick.
Jerry Rice – drafted mid first round . . . that’s where I assess Crabtree’s real draft value

Work Ethic . . . it’s a guess!

Admit, it’s a great unknown. Essentially it’s a guess on my part but I base it off:

- Texas Tech offense isn’t complex (it’s as close to street ball in a professional setting as it gets). It’s going to be a culture shock coming to the NFL.

- His route running isn’t deceptive or sharp. Pretty much all college receivers have that problem. However, without blazing speed or superior size you need good route running in the NFL to succeed. Catching the 5 yard curl against the Unv of Rice calibur DB standing 8 yards back isn’t going to work anymore.

- He doesn’t always body out defenders. Yes, it could be Tech’s offense strategy that was pointed out above. Several highlights have the DB just missing the ball over his shoulder or missing the flight of the ball. An extra step in or outside would have shielded out the defender from even having a chance at the ball. Again, NFL defenders won’t miss knocking the ball down like they often did in college.

- He doesn’t attack the ball at the highest point. Just YouTube it.

- The last three items were fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals which needs to be his entire NFL game. Has he spent the time working on these things in college? I’m just asking the question. Did they fail to emphasis these atTech’s practices? Did he get away with these flaws because of his great hands and superior athleticism?

- Expectations: He’s already hurt. He can’t out jump nor out run people in the NFL. I’ve pointed out the fundamental issues he needs to work on. The pressure put on him by the Mel Kipers are going to be intense. I’m betting on percentages and saying it’s not going to be fun for a while. He doesn’t yet have a track record of overcoming a football challenge. He starred his 1st day in college and outside looking in it’s as though things have come easy. I’m expecting a period of self doubt, how will he respond? It’s not a fair argument. It’s like blaming an 18 year old for not having a credit score but I want to ask it.

Texas TD . . .

I didn’t say he ran the wrong route. I’m simply stating the TD results was more a complete bonehead mistake by the Texas safety than a mind boggling play by Michael. He showed great hands again snatching the ball from the defender who correctly played the underneath route. However, he doesn’t waltz into the end zone if the safety doesn’t blow his assignment.

If I missed anything let me know

Yes, he could shrug it all off and come out guns blazing. Than again that would really make him special. Still, Crabtree is being portrayed as this great, great prospect to likes of prior high NFL WR draft prospects. His measurements suggest otherwise. If the guy is going to flat out work people in the NFL than yes he will live up to expectations. If doesn’t I don’t see the physical tools that will allow him to skate by. If I’m picking Crabtree that high I want to see the work ethic. Reports said Jerry Rice showed it in college. Jeremy Maclin’s teammates talk about his. Maybe Texas Tech needs to do some better PR because I haven’t heard the stories yet.

not measurables lead to the best players.

not too often do you see workout warriors become great pros. What you do see, is guys that produced in college produce in the pros.

now if he was 5’6" 115 then maybe. but the figures you listed arent enough to disprove his accomplishments

One day soon I’m going to write an official moratorium fanpost where, among other things, I’ll explain why nobody is every allowed to use Jerry Rice’s speed as evidence that guy being slow somehow isn’t worth condsidering a knock against him.

This is actually not a comment on Crabtree or on his speed. It’s more a comment on the commentary surrounding that discussion.

with no merit and legitimacy at all.

So Crabtree is short, slow, can’t jump, is lacking at all the fundamentals, is dumb, lazy, unmotivated, and runs bad routes. Somebody better tell the guys on the Belitnikoff committee because they screwed up royally – twice. They must be slow learners with no grasp of the game. Better call all the All-American voters, too. Don’t bother calling any Big 12 teams. They already know how bad he is.

in screen name only.

Skin Patrol’s posts were just lovely…I savored every morsel.

I just want it to die…

What happens on the field> workout #s