Mike Singletary vs. Scot McCloughan: Who has the "trigger?"
by David Fucillo on Apr 19, 2009 9:00 AM PDT
in NFL Draft
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PrintOne of the running jokes for much of last season was the question of who between Mike Nolan and Scot McCloughan had the "trigger?" This "trigger" seemed to be a rather key aspect of the McNolan relationship.
I bring it up now because I remain curious about the relationship between Mike Singletary and Scot McCloughan heading into this draft. The respective titles would seem to indicate clarity: Singletary is the head coach and McCloughan is the general manager. And yet it's not so simple.
The head coach of an NFL team seems to have distinct responsibilities as compared to most other sports. No matter what the coach does have input into the on-field product. The NFL personnel situation is dramatically different from that of say baseball. In baseball you're drafting for the distant future thanks to the minor leagues. Many draftees never make the big leagues, and the ones that do often take several years to get there. Whomever is the big league manager now may very well be gone by the time the draftees reach the big leagues.
In football, on the other hand, most of your draft choices will see playing time that first season and you're often expecting sizable contributions from one or two of them right away. Thus, the coach will be dealing with them immediately. The coach has more of an impact in football than in other sports, so it makes sense that he would have greater input.
So, we know that Singletary has input. We also know he is his own man and is ready to take care of business. Does that mean that in his discussions about becoming head coach he made it known that he wanted serious involvement in personnel matters?
One variable in this is Scot McCloughan's job security. McCloughan is probably next on the chopping block if things go south. How much player control would he give up because of that? On the one hand it's scary to cede power if you might lose it all soon. On the other hand I'd imagine he would want Singletary to have players with which he can be comfortable.
So, will this draft tell us who has the personnel power? Can we even tell from the draft choices? Does it even matter in the end?
FOOCH'S UPDATE 4/20 7:37PM: Mike Sando linked to this article over at ESPN and included a quick take of his own on this subject:
My take: McCloughan is clearly the key figure for the 49ers come draft time. That is his area of expertise. If Singletary and McCloughan could not resolve strong differences over a draft prospect, the team would probably select someone else.
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Based on the State of the Franchise
I’m sure Sing has let Mc know where he feels the team needs to improve at and I’m sure MC is gonna make the final decision. McSing is on the chopping block. No way the Gm is gonna take the fall on his own with a rookie coach. Shanahan is up for a coaching job at season’s end and the 9ers would try to retain Singletary but not as HC if this does not go well. I believe McCloughan will get the shaft if this season is not above .500
LG
Good Point
about the difference between football and baseball.
Obviously, both SM & MS should be somewhat on the same page with regards to needs and players who fit certain schemes.
To me, the ‘X’ factor is in SM and his scouts finding guys who want to go to war. Guys like a Bob Sanders, who might have been undersized, but had the heart of a warrior.
Singletary himself was considered undersized coming out of Baylor and like Sanders was drafted in the second round.
This is less about the measurables and more about finding warriors, on both sides of the ball. Guys that like to hit and get hit. Like Ronnie Lott.
Despite his quite demeanor and religous backround, in Mike Singletary’s world, football is war. Period.
Like he said a long time ago; “First thing we do, we hit somebody in the mouth.”
Jake Plummer....
After watching a Jake Plummer interview where he told Jim Rome that Shanahan took away the enjoyment of the game for him I don’t look at Shanahan the same. Supposedly Shanahan had Plummer learning 150 pass plays during practice every week. He goes on to say that as a ten year QB vet in the NFL, Shanahan made him confused and uncertain of his own abilities. I wonder if he wasn’t a curse to the Broncos as much as he was a blessing. I certainly don’t want him here though.
As far as the 49ers go I think that Scott McCloughan is doing a pretty good job. We have talented players. I think a lot of guys are going to have a good year and start living up to their potential. I think Nolan was the problem. His 4-3, 3-4 craziness clearly didn’t work for this team. We had Lawson playing coverage instead pass rushing like we drafted him to do. We were playing soft coverage with physical corners. Everything was back a$$wards. And that’s just on defense. He clearly knew nothing about offense, or even about game philosophies. That’s why he kept getting OCs he thought could fix what he broke and save his job. That’s why JTO was our starting QB and Shaun Hill was sitting on the bench. I think Singletary has already shown he can get the most out of these guys and that he understands you need an offense and defense that compliments each other. The more time that passes the more that I believe Nolan just mismanaged a good thing. It would take a monumental blunder to put either SM or MS on the chopping block anytime soon. Remember that Jed York is running things now and he seems to believe in both of these guys pretty heavily. You don’t declare to your team that your season won’t end in December again if you don’t believe you have a chance to make it to the playoffs next year. Singeltary had a great thing fall in his lap. All he has to do now is motivate.
I think Singletary has already shown he can get the most out of these guys
That’s the key to coaching and winning.
Look at Dallas. As talented a team in the NFL who sat home in January, cause they have no real HC.
Singletary came within a few plays (Miami & Arizona) of going to the playoffs with a much less talented team.
Sing also had to deal with a OC who didn't like doing things Sing's way.
I think Sing has surrounded himself with talented people and he not only motivates the players but also the coaches. Look for the 49ers to draft players who are physical and like to hit. The QB, either Hill or Smith, will do fine because they will hand off to a couple different RBs in Gore and whomever we draft, or even Clayton will get his chance. But the QB will also be able to through short and medium passes to the RBs and TEs and all of that will open up the medium to long ball.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
LOL, there is a "Sing Way" ? ....
That OC got more out of that talent than Sing could ever last season. Let’s keep it in perspective.
Well, we're waiting....
Re:
There are just too many variables for the Old Duder to wrap his head around this one.
"I sing a song from Sing-Sing, sipping on ginseng."-- Wu Tang
Well
sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes, well, sometimes he eats you.
by Andrew Davidson on Apr 19, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
This is McCloughan's draft to screw up.
For the first time he has clear authority on the “trigger” no matter how much input the HC gives. That wasn’t clear last year when McCloughan was given the trigger but clearly was deferring, or at least consulting, with Nolan on the picks.
So this is his draft to succeed or fail at, and like many others have said, he may next on the chopping block if things don’t go well – think of the Jags bringing in Gene Smith to fix their draft problems. But I actually have faith McCloughan can do the job, and he has nine picks to prove it. If he can get two solid contributors at #10 and #43 and some late picks that help the team, like a short-yardage back, a TED LB, a decent NT prospect, or even a replacement for Alan Rossum like Michael Ray Garvin in the 7th, McCloughan will be set for a while, So it’ll be interesting. But if he takes Sanchez with the #10 pick, I want him gone on the next thing heading out of town.
Sanchez at #10-
Interesting dilemma here- do you draft what could be a franchise QB next year, hoping you will still have a job and can reap the benefits? This is probably not a bad move for the franchise but it’s long term success vs. instant payoff of say a BJ Raji or a pass rushing specialist. Having long term instability at the top sucks.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
Sanchez
Some QBs can start right away and do well. Smith wasn’t one of those. If Sanchez falls to us and gets draft by us then it will mean that MS and SM don’t believe in Alex Smith for the future. I think Alex Smith can be better but needs some time to develop. He isn’even 25 years old, so he is still young
49ers WILL make the playoffs this year.
Patrick Willis IS a 99 in Madden.
In Shaun Hill will trust
The problem with Sanchez at #10 is the risk.
I’m not going to say he’ll be a bust because I just don’t know. And that’s the problem – nobody knows, not even the scouts and experienced personnel guys. We’ve all watched 1st round QBs and WRs go up in smoke after being touted as “can’t miss” prospects. So, should a team take a chance on a player with high positional value even though there’s about a 50-50 chance he’ll be a complete bust? Well, it depends on how much money is involved: if a top 10 QB gets somewhere in the range of $20-30mil guaranteed, that is a major risk for a franchise, and if it turns out to be a bad bet, that dead money can cripple a team for the next five years with nothing to show for it.
So why take the chance when there are other ways, just as successful, to get a franchise QB for the team. Billichick took two late-round scrubs, Brady and Cassel, and turned them into franchise QBs. So I’m on that bandwagon – look for mid-late round guys and develop them. The 9ers could get a guy like Mike Reilly in the 5th or 6th who could develop into a superstar given the chance.
That’s why a rookie salary scale is a good idea, imho, and I hope it gets implemented in the next round of contract negotiations between the NFLPA and the team owners. I’m tired of seeing so much dead money being spent on glamorous 1st round busts while guys who contribute more but are drafted late don’t get squat(in NFL terms, anyway).
by MontanaPass on Apr 20, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Singletary is giving McCloughan some rope to work with...
let’s hope he doesn’t hang himself with it. Singletary’s insistence that he is the guy who can take water (Andre Smith/Vernon Davis) and turn it to wine is both appealing to a GM and a death sentence. McCloughan, if he trusts Singletary, can truly take the best available player regardless of personality flaws which could potentially improve the team at a quicker pace. But just because Singletary showed Vernon Davis who is boss doesn’t necessarily mean he can handle all the NFL has to offer in the realm of crazy. If so, let’s sign PacMan, trade for Chad Johnson and have Lawrence Phillips furloughed for weekend visits to the gridiron.
This is a slippery slope, one I hope McCloughan looks at the right way and makes a decision based on the franchise’s long term viability because this is the NFL which means that Mike Singletary might be collecting a free paycheck come next January and this pick will still be owed a whole lot of cap dollars. Gambles are for rounds 4-7, first and second round talents like Josh Morgan who have to fight to keep the pay check because of their past indiscretions.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
Mike Singletary
is the Head Coach. He has the final say when it comes to playing time, that’s a fact.
Sing has admitted in the past Scot has had an eye for talent which Sing himself didn’t see at the time (ie: Patrick Willis). Ultimately, McCloughan has the personnel decisions, but as seen with FA visits, it was both Scot and Mike interviewing/hosting people to visits.
It’s quite obvious that Coach Singletary’s views and voice has been instrumental in the new philosophy of the team. So whether or not he has the trigger finger is irrelevant. Scot may pull the trigger, but Singletary is firing all the bullets.
by Andrew Davidson on Apr 19, 2009 8:03 PM PDT reply actions
And for the first time years that gun is fully loaded
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
If I was him I wouldn't
Singletary is obviously known as a motivator and leader. His abililty as a playcalling, which goes along with his knowledge of X’s and O’s, Geomack, and as a talent evaulator, until proven otherwise, is suspect. He should give some input but ultimately stick to what he’s good at, hopefully, being a HC and not a GM.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Apr 20, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
^^^^ Gets it ^^^^
BTW, this "trigger: thing was a question for Sing asked by Barbieri, and Sing made himself look like an idiot over it. Which leads me to these questions:
a) Is Fooch a “douchebag” for addressing it?
b) Or is this a relevant question to ask a Head Coach going into his first full season?
This is an issue that Kawakami covers ad nauseam BTW.
Well, we're waiting....
"trigger"
I asked more out of curiosity. Given the difference in football coaches vs other sports’ coaches/managers it had me thinking.
I actually had forgotten about the Barbieri stuff. I put “trigger” in quotation marks because of the ridiculousness over it (which doesn’t translate on the Internet).
by David Fucillo on Apr 20, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
However ridiculous the "trigger" thing is...
It’s actually part of recent 49er History, coined by Nolan/ScotM themselves. The fact that it’s still an issue that needs to be properly addressed by the powers that be at 49er HQ is even more ridiculous. So in a sense, the people that aren’t as ridiculous are the ones that ask that question, which is the Kawakami’s/Barbieri’s, and their ilk. Now that we’re asking it here, now, it isn’t as ridiculous anymore, is it?
Well, we're waiting....
ridiculousness
I definitely think it’s an issue. I just find humor in the way it was thrown around by McNolan. But it’s certainly something that needs to be figured out more squarely (if it hasn’t already).
by David Fucillo on Apr 20, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
You could feel the bitterness..
From Nolan during that press conference. Nolan sandbagged the FO with the whole “Face of the Team” thing as well. Nolan’s hiring of Martz was a slap in the face (whoever wore the “Face” after that) to the FO and ScotM IMO, and it really showed us how screwed up things are at 49er HQ. The thing is, all of this (sire decorum) really hit the fan last just last season, so the “smell” in the FO maybe lingers around from it, and we hope it doesn’t permeate into the Locker Room.
These “Nolanisms” are quite fun, yet sad at the same time.
Well, we're waiting....
For the record
I never said anything about Singletary’s ability as a talent evaluator.
Bill Parcells’ greatest achievements were with the NY Giants. George Young was the GM back then and called the shots. George Young drafted LT, not Bill Parcells. How much input Parcells eventually had, I can’t say cause I wasn’t there. I’m pretty sure that even at the end of Bill’s time there, that Young was calling the shots with some input from Parcells.
As far as playcalling and X’s and O’s goes, fortunately MS & SM hired a couple of coordinators so that Singletary won’t have to worry about screwing that up.
The number #1 job of a HC is to get the most out of his players (unlike, say guys like Norv Turner or Wade Phillips who don’t come close) and to lead all of his players and coaches into battle.
That’s it. Demand from your players their very best (and not settle for anything else) and lead, motivate and inspire them to victory.
IIRC,...
Singletary hired only one coordinator, and that was the underwhelming choice of Jimmy Raye. Nolan hired Manusky. Nolan also hired Singletary, and ScotM. Of course, Nolan hired Hostler, hoping that Hostler wouldn’t screw it up either.
Well, we're waiting....
I was being
facetious regadarding the coordinators.
As far as Raye is concerned, underwhelming to who? You? Or MS?
Don’t take this personally, but if MS is going to stake his HC’ing reputation, in part, on Jimmy Raye, that’s good enough for me.
I don't take it personally at all...
I get that you have a dysfunction outside of anything that isn’t “Da Bears”, so I take it with a grain of salt. As far the underwhelming part, at least we know that almost every coach Raye has been a OC for has been fired soon after. That isn’t underwhelming in the least. Overwhelming? Maybe.
Well, we're waiting....
As far the underwhelming part, at least we know that almost every coach Raye has been a OC for has been fired soon after.
That and the fact, you know, that he hasn’t been a coordinator in a loooong time, in a league where the coordinator position is often a revolving door for a variety of reasons.
I think one thing will be certain...
Is that the offense won’t put up the numbers they had last season, both good and bad. Mostly the good part though.
Well, we're waiting....
Football
isn’t about numbers. It’s about winning. All’s you need is to score one more point than your opponent per game.
Fantasy Football, now, that is ALL about numbers.
Which type of football are you referring to here?
If Jimmy Raye’s offense doesn’t produce a lot of points, than I guess Singletary and Manusky’s defense will have to give up even less.
You being ‘certain’ that the offense won’t put up the numbers of last year is somewhat laughable.
It's not laughable at all...
Not as laughable as your baseless hyperbole due to your infatuation with Singletary as a player. If you looked at Raye’s career as OC, you would see that outside of a year in KC, the offense was statistically worse his first year replacing the former OC. The trend of the HC’s getting fired soon after isn’t laughable at all, only the fact that, given the dysfunction of the 49er’s offense over the past few years, we now have a HC that will rely upon Raye, since he isn’t much of a X’s and O’s coach. The past few years, the defense has had to make up for an anemic offense, save last season. Was Martz’s offense flawed with holes? Of course. But it was far from anemic, and it did win games for them.
I guess of Sinlgetary hired Chuck Knox instead, you would still be all over his jock.
Well, we're waiting....
Ummm
Let me help you out here. Anybody that looks at a bunch of ‘numbers’ and makes a blanket statement about someone’s qualifications really doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Maybe the team didn’t have very good players.
Maybe the team lost some key players.
Maybe the OC wanted to do some things and the HC overruled him.
Maybe the OC designed perfect plays, everytbody did a great job, and on 10 plays during the season the WR dropped an easy TD pass in the end zone.
There are a lot of things that happen on a team that prevents someone (like you) who never WATCHED that team play, from making judgments about that team.
But you will anyway, (LOL).
BTW: My infatuation, when MS was playing, was as a player. Currently (especially after I saw him in action for every game last season ) it’s as a HC. Please try to be accurate here.
I watch the team play...
Unlike you, who would rather read a Singletary press conference to remind you of your puberty.
Well, we're waiting....
Let me also help you out.
Of the four points (or excuses) you listed, the 49ers exemplify all four of them. First, they don’t have very good players. Some have potential, but none, outside of Frank Gore, are actually “good.” The team has lost players due to injury, and like every other team, will continue to do so (i.e. Snyder going down and Sims subbing in). The offensive coordinator wanted to do things, and Singletary squashed it. And say Martz does design the perfect play (which he probably has, as his stuff has worked before), the team flat out fails to execute day in and day out. That goes beyond just dropping a sure TD pass.
Basically, yes, maybe it’s a little hasty to say that Raye by himself will produce very little. However, there isn’t very much there that can persuade people the 49ers’ players can suddenly execute better when they’re moving to a more conservative offense. Who’s to say Raye won’t be “run, run, pass” like Hostler was a couple years ago?
Yes, everyone can wait and see to get a feel for what Raye can do, but judging by the talent he has to work with and his overall history, you can’t blame a fan for being skeptical.
It's not a dysfunction at all
Beyond being a Bears fan, I recognize greatness (and crap) when I see it.
I recently wrote a FanPost on Blogging the Boys titled “The Greatness of Michael Irvin.” I’m by no means a Cowboy fan; It’s just that I recognize greatness when I see it.
MS is on his third act:
1. He was great at Baylor.
2. He was great in Chicago.
3. (Hopefully) he’ll be great as HC in SF. Unfortunately for Mike, he’s far more dependant on other people than in 1 & 2 above.
You can be a great player on crappy teams (see Dick Butkus & Archie Manning,among many others, for example). As HC, however, you can’t do a whole lot just by yourself.
Still, after following the NFL for 40 + years, I see all the elements of greatness in MS with regards to the HC’ing position.
Of course, only time wil tell.
Being a 49ers fan...
And I will take the liberty to say this for all of us fans, we saw greatness as well.
Well, we're waiting....
To add..
I saw greatness in Magic Johnson as a Spartan, and as a Laker. It didn’t mean he would be a great coach.
Well, we're waiting....
Apparently you didn't follow me.
Of course. Playing greatness is no guarantee of coaching greatness. Moreover, usually the greatest of players are actually the worst coaches/managers.
All I said was that I see ‘All the elements of greatness in MS with regards to the HC’ing position.’
LT was one of the greatest LB’s in the history of the game. I wouldn’t hire him to be the HC of my team for all the money in the world.
Same with a guy like the late, great Walter Payton.
Like you, I can’t see the future. I can only base my opinion on ‘the past.’
The fact is, Mike Singletary changed the cuture of the 49ers in his first game, with the VD incident and with the very clear message he delivered in his postgame press conference.
He’s off to a pretty good start, IMO and in the opinion of others like Joe Montana.
Clear message?...
What, did they find the cure for the mysterious “cancer” in the locker room yet? We still don’t know who he meant by those “cancers” (plural BTW, meaning there were more than one ‘cancer’ on the team, and it doesn’t pertain to astrology either) who were eating away at the team. Did his chewing out VD on the sideline suddenly turn VD into Shannon Sharpe? No. He still was just a blocker. Let’s not forget, Singletary was with Nolan from the beginning, and part of the “old culture”. All he did was chew some ass, start Hill, and improve on a second half against teams that had a combined 8 wins total amongst them in their respective second halves. That’s it. Of course, this doesn’t sit well with you, since it has more to do with truth than what you dare to face.
Magic called out players when he was coaching the Lakers, and they went ton a small run as well. Didn’t make him a good coach. Well, maybe in your eyes it did
Well, we're waiting....
Singletary is his own man
He’s not Nolan’s clone or anyone else’s.
This has nothing to do with ‘cancers.’
It has EVERYTHING to do with attitude.
It’s as simple as his forceful statement: “I want winners!”
Look, I’m not going to keep fighting your opinions.
The fact is, from the Yorks and SM, to former great players like Rod Woodson and Joe Montana (among many, many others) to most of the current team (including VD) to a large number of 49er fans, as well as NFL fans, to all of those people, MS is the right man for the job.
If you feel otherwise, then FINE! You are entitled to your opinion.
BTW: Try not to make ignorant comments like this: Didn’t make him a good coach. Well, maybe in your eyes it did.
That’s an ignorant and baseless comment (like they pretty much all are with you).
My comments reflect your posts accurately ...
I mean, just look at what you just wrote. Seriously, read it. Now, you’re trying to justify it by using player’s opinions on Singletary being the “right man for the job”, when a lot of players and coaches said the same about Nolan. LOL, I mean, you even brought the Yorks into it, which shows how ignorant your post really is. Here is what you don’t get, and is the crux of this whole “trigger” issue: the 49ers have systemic problems that go beyond Singletary’s career as a player. These problems will affect a lot neophyte HC’s, like they did Nolan. Maiocco pointed out a conversation he had with a veteran NFL scout regarding Nolan. He thought Nolan was a good coach, but the FO was whacked, so much that Nolan really didn’t have a chance in SF. This was before last season. So this doesn’t help Singletary much, and motivation alone won’t help if he has a few missteps along they way, which he will have. This isn’t the Steelers. This is the York led 49ers. Singletary may be his own man, but the issue here is who has the real power at HQ. This isn’t my opinion. This is a tangible issue. One you fail to get due to your infatuation with Singletary, which doesn’t mean anything regarding the reality.
I WANT WINNERS!! vs. WIN THE WEST!!
Phrases like those don’t won’t change the landscape of poor decisions, and Raye just may be one of those decisions. That’s a Singletary hire. One of the few that are new to add to an older Nolan regime that still exists in Santa Clara. There isn’t anything new here. Just the Status Quo.
Well, we're waiting....
I know that you really don't know much
so let me help you out here.
In Mike Ditka’s first address to his new Bear team, in 1982, he talked about the Bears going to the SB (he also said that as he looked around, half the players in front of him wouldn’t be there when they did).
Many, many Bears (like MS and Dan Hampton) have later talked about how Ditka was the first Bear coach to ever mention the SB. It challenged them and inspired them. Players actually listen to what their leader (HC) says.
When MS said “I want winners” believe me, that message rang loud and clear with his new team. They quickly understood what it meant in all it’s simplicity: That from this point forward, there’s a new sheriff in town (MS) and the new sheriff cares only about winning. That’s all.
I know this kind of thing goes completely over your head, but that’s your problem, not mine.
As far as Raye goes, why don’t you give him a game, or a quarter, or a few minutes, or a few plays, or even one play before you bash him senseless.
But that’s right. You don’t NEED to wait. After all, you’re pretty certain that the offense won’t put up the numbers it did last year. You’re funny.
LOL, more "Da Bears" references?....
I knew it was just a matter of time before you would comically go “Superfans” on us here. I don’t know if you are a fat, fried food junkie in real life, but you sure play one with a deft comic touch here.
I WANT WINNERS!!!
Ladies and Gentleman (and Bears fans), GeoMak is going to show us how a Dynasty is built today, post Salary Cap and exhorbiant rookie contracts, by going crazy in a press conference, much like his old mentor on TV Ditka did back in the day. Forget that we had Bill Walsh. We’re all gonna go to the deep fryer here, grab a few beers along with it, and meditate to the sounds of “DITKA….DITKA….DITKA…” in our heads. Forget about the Mexican Drug War, the economic crisis, Barry Zito, etc. All we need to do to get through life is by repeating the name of “DITKA” over and over again, until he shows up holographically right in front of our computer monitor, and tells us how he traded a whole draft for a pothead quitter. Oh wait! He wasn’t in CHI at that time, so we can forget about that one.
“GOLD JERRY!! THAT’S GOLD”
Well, we're waiting....
Well, in case you haven't noticed (Albert Einstein)
your HC is a former Bear. It’s relevant with regards to Mike Singletary.
That would be like Ronnie Lott coaching in the NFL and there not being references to Bill Walsh and the 49ers.
You and method are amusing. Of course, I find Paris Hilton amusing. Not terribly bright, but amusing.
I caught her on Leno for a few minutes
She amused me. Just like you. Based on your posts, she probably knows more about football than you do. Of course that’s just a guess.
I have no ‘proof’ of that.
Here is something about football that you don't know....
It has been played since 1985.
Well, we're waiting....
Here is my closer...
“I WANT WINNERS!!!”
LOL, that should give nice dreams tonight.
Well, we're waiting....
Once again
you kill with your intelligent comments. Really.
That should give nice dreams tonight?
Work on your grammar (along with your, ahem , football knowledge).
Too funny.
Geo Mak and Drummer
You girls need to pull in your claws. It’s about the Niners, not you.
djwilliams
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